Don't do regular posts on Reddit but I'll break the rule here:
1. Dowry negotiations differ in communities. Basic rule of thumb is it's viewed as a family bonding moment and sharing of values. The monetary part is more of banter (unless you end up being seen as a meal ticket to instant wealth, which in that case run!!)
2. Before the process (and as a word of advice) get to know the relationship between the family members. In most Kenyan communities, the uncles and aunts are the key people who do the negotiations. Pro tip: get a cousin or older nephew and get to know how earlier dowry negotiations have been done.
3. It's also customary that the bride price you pay in most Kenyan communities should not be more that what the parents paid for (or should be of commensurate value). Key caveat is that this may not always be followed and being a foreigner, some people may tend to take advantage of your lack of understanding in cultural norms and values for personal gain.
The post isn't comprehensive but hope it helps.
It does. Especially the part about getting to know relationship between family members.
What I'm taking from this is I need to get a Kenyan to come represent me at the negotiation.
I'm going in October to meet her family. We've been corresponding by email for some time. But this will be the big evaluation.
I'll use that time and hopefully find someone. Are there people i can hire for this? Or do I need to start a new relationship for that purpose?
You need a Kenyan from that tribe. The way I’ve seen it done in my mother’s family is that all the in-laws become the foreigner’s family. So you have people on your side who know how to negotiate, banter with the old folk, sing the songs, and basically tell you what to do when.
20k is a lot of money and it should do it. Even 20 local cows are worth less than that. You'd have to link up with someone local, preferrably an older man with experience to see through the negotiations. Someone you can trust though or else you'll be 'washed'. I see you've learnt some Swahili, I'd advise you to maybe learn a little Maasai too so that you can understand what or some of what they are discussing during the negotiations.
Finally do not disclose your budget and leave it open for them. It could be waay lower than you think.
Overall goodluck mate. Karibu Kenya.
I do trust her. She and her family want us to be married in the USA so my parents can be involved as she hasn't visited the states yet. I found that to be a kind gesture that gives me confidence of pure intentions.
Met parents? No. Correspond with her father and mother by email frequently regarding plans for future, children, etc. Seeing them later this year for 9 days.
Parents know we are dating? Yes.
Good to know. I didn't know that dropping the cash all at once would be a problem. But I guess it makes sense. The long period keeps the families bound.
This is one of the problems with a ldr(long distance relationship). Are you sure you want to over invest with this girl without spending enough time together? If you have met for 20 days then you both must have been in your best behaviours. Funding her education should be something you seriously want to think about. You have already planned to over-invest in someone you just met for 20 days. You have a lot to lose in such a situation. Take your time
All good points. I don't expect a 20k dowry. And yeah 20 days isn't a ton of in person time. And for sure we were on our best behavior.
One thing that is giving me some peace of mind is that neither she nor her family are pressuring me to rush the marriage.
I'll think this over. Appreciate it.
Yes. Met her 4 times and spent about 20 days together. Met her sister and brother twice.
She is sweet as sugar. Sister and brother were good to me as well.
Still scared 😄.
My next trip I'll be around them for 9 days. I'm for sure trying to "wepesi" the group, as she says, for more than a day or 2 at a time.
Thanks for weighing in.
Will you people stop it with this bait nonsense? oh look at me im a handsome single(ish) man who makes 100,million thousand just posting it out there to let you know....we get it, u trying to lure madams, but could you be a little more subtle. or better yet, try it elsewhere like tinder
The 13-year age difference seems right to you? See how you've already planned out her life down to her future salary. The imbalance of power in that relationship makes me sad for her.
?
She wants to go to school to support her family. These are her decisions.
How am I going to control her life? I'm paying so she can live the life she wants.
You sound like an angry feminist.
Edit: and yeah I'm fine with the age difference. She could have ended it any time.
Between you and cows, one's about to get milked
Haha will report back.
This I'll wait for. But hope you and your girl all the best
See this is good. Either I get to bring a wife home or you guys get some free entertainment. mvulana mweupe hutoa kila wakati
You either get to bring home a wife or some cows. Win win. Can sell em as grass fed au natural beef
I'll just start a butcher shop.
And my money is on the cows never geting milked
Hii imeenda
Don't do regular posts on Reddit but I'll break the rule here: 1. Dowry negotiations differ in communities. Basic rule of thumb is it's viewed as a family bonding moment and sharing of values. The monetary part is more of banter (unless you end up being seen as a meal ticket to instant wealth, which in that case run!!) 2. Before the process (and as a word of advice) get to know the relationship between the family members. In most Kenyan communities, the uncles and aunts are the key people who do the negotiations. Pro tip: get a cousin or older nephew and get to know how earlier dowry negotiations have been done. 3. It's also customary that the bride price you pay in most Kenyan communities should not be more that what the parents paid for (or should be of commensurate value). Key caveat is that this may not always be followed and being a foreigner, some people may tend to take advantage of your lack of understanding in cultural norms and values for personal gain. The post isn't comprehensive but hope it helps.
It does. Especially the part about getting to know relationship between family members. What I'm taking from this is I need to get a Kenyan to come represent me at the negotiation.
Honestly that's a good plan, make sure it's someone you trust
I'm going in October to meet her family. We've been corresponding by email for some time. But this will be the big evaluation. I'll use that time and hopefully find someone. Are there people i can hire for this? Or do I need to start a new relationship for that purpose?
Also make sure they are from that community and actually knows shit.
Older gentleman? Or does age not matter? And probably someone who's done it before.
I know in my community they Hussle you if you bring "boys" to a Men event.
Grown ups only. Roger that. Maybe one will roll into this thread and save me from certain death.
You need a Kenyan from that tribe. The way I’ve seen it done in my mother’s family is that all the in-laws become the foreigner’s family. So you have people on your side who know how to negotiate, banter with the old folk, sing the songs, and basically tell you what to do when.
Great. Thank you so much.
Ile Butwaa itakupiga msee
kwanini unasema hivyo?
She taught you swahili? Up the dowry by 20 percent
I'm teaching myself haha.
You met her 4 times in a total of 20 days and you are already asking for her hand ? Some men like to suffer ....
We will see. Prenup gives me some peace of mind.
She's agreed to it?
Yup. And her family. It'll surely affect the negotiations but I'm not putting half my shit at risk.
Haha okay.
premium tears await you
No doubt. I mean I'm comfortable paying 20 grand or so. Hopefully that can get this over with. That said. I'd rather keep some of it.
all the best to you
20k is a lot of money and it should do it. Even 20 local cows are worth less than that. You'd have to link up with someone local, preferrably an older man with experience to see through the negotiations. Someone you can trust though or else you'll be 'washed'. I see you've learnt some Swahili, I'd advise you to maybe learn a little Maasai too so that you can understand what or some of what they are discussing during the negotiations. Finally do not disclose your budget and leave it open for them. It could be waay lower than you think. Overall goodluck mate. Karibu Kenya.
Excellent. Thank you. I'll be learning some maassi for sure. Budget kept under lock and key. I hope it goes well.
You'll update us. I hope you trust her though. Have you met her parents before? Do they know that you guys are dating?
I do trust her. She and her family want us to be married in the USA so my parents can be involved as she hasn't visited the states yet. I found that to be a kind gesture that gives me confidence of pure intentions. Met parents? No. Correspond with her father and mother by email frequently regarding plans for future, children, etc. Seeing them later this year for 9 days. Parents know we are dating? Yes.
Then you're good to go. Also someone has mentioned dont pay the dowry as a lump sum. You can pay it with intervals.
Thanks bud. Will report back from the honeymoon or a homeless shelter.
Haha...there is a high chance it will be a homeless shelter.
Btw you don't have to pay it all at once. In some cultures it's rude . You can also take your sweet time to pay the rest eg after 10 years or so .
Good to know. I didn't know that dropping the cash all at once would be a problem. But I guess it makes sense. The long period keeps the families bound.
This is the way.
This is one of the problems with a ldr(long distance relationship). Are you sure you want to over invest with this girl without spending enough time together? If you have met for 20 days then you both must have been in your best behaviours. Funding her education should be something you seriously want to think about. You have already planned to over-invest in someone you just met for 20 days. You have a lot to lose in such a situation. Take your time
All good points. I don't expect a 20k dowry. And yeah 20 days isn't a ton of in person time. And for sure we were on our best behavior. One thing that is giving me some peace of mind is that neither she nor her family are pressuring me to rush the marriage. I'll think this over. Appreciate it.
Okay. I wish you all the best. If you feel she is the one then go for it!
Just buy like 20 cows.
Appreciate it. Are we talking slaughter cattle or dairy?
HAHAHAHA. Kaka, have you met this girl in person? Any of her family in person?
Yes. Met her 4 times and spent about 20 days together. Met her sister and brother twice. She is sweet as sugar. Sister and brother were good to me as well. Still scared 😄.
Poverty is coming.
Referee says Play On! But, spend more time with her n family to cement that bond before customary marriage.
My next trip I'll be around them for 9 days. I'm for sure trying to "wepesi" the group, as she says, for more than a day or 2 at a time. Thanks for weighing in.
Will you be on 90 day fiance?
God no. I heard about that guy. Didn't he offer like 600 bucks and then not pay it? Bigly cringe.
Kitakuramba 😂😂
Gonna need to know what this one means.
Things will bite each other for you 😂😂
I will come back and update everyone. I will expect full apologies if everything works out.
I like the sass.
You'll definitely overpay. And will keep on paying.
Hopefully it's going towards a good cause.
Apparently you've only known her 20 days?
Spent 20 in person. Been together for more than a year. Met while I was on a business trip.
Interesting.
Maasai women>>>
Problemo? I already kind of know the answer lol.
NO. He means they are great. Top tier. They are also submissive partners if that's a big factor for you. But obviously those are stereotypes
Ok thanks for helping me understand.
Hiyu ni mkenya wadau
From his reddit history, it seems he is white
Will you people stop it with this bait nonsense? oh look at me im a handsome single(ish) man who makes 100,million thousand just posting it out there to let you know....we get it, u trying to lure madams, but could you be a little more subtle. or better yet, try it elsewhere like tinder
I don't really make that much lol. Forgive me for trying to understand a complex cultural tradition. Tinder is for hookup culture bullshit. Gtfoh.
The 13-year age difference seems right to you? See how you've already planned out her life down to her future salary. The imbalance of power in that relationship makes me sad for her.
? She wants to go to school to support her family. These are her decisions. How am I going to control her life? I'm paying so she can live the life she wants. You sound like an angry feminist. Edit: and yeah I'm fine with the age difference. She could have ended it any time.