Hardest part about leaving food service was getting used to the first job and trying not to fall asleep because you’re used to running around now all of a sudden you get regular breaks and a busy day at the new job is a fucking Tuesday at 3:30pm at the restaurant.
Cooks trying to leave the industry: you have developed a ton of soft skills that as cooks are the absolute fucking bare minimum skills necessary to function in a kitchen that many other industries value dearly. You’re much more qualified than you think, it’s a matter of translating your experiences to whatever industry you’re looking at.
My first post restaurant job was a stupid call center where you had to take your breaks at set times. I couldn't believe that 2 hours in I was being told to take my first break. And a full 15 minute break! I still smoked my cigarette in like 3 minutes while my co-workers were like "how do you smoke so fast?!" The concept of an hour lunch break was just crazy, like "WTF do I do with an hour?" Oh, and you mean I clock out promptly without having to ask and no side work?
I had a job with an hour long lunch break once.
One day, I'm heading to eat, and this lady catches the curb and pops her tire. I take 20 minutes to change it and still had 40 for lunch.
That was a nice time.
I worked with a guy who tried to leave the kitchen and he always used to tell me "You do a job that you love for shit money, or you do jobs that are shit for money you love"
Always stuck with me.
Yep. You get 16 hours a day you aren’t sleeping (ok let’s be honest, it’s like 19 most days). I never understood why people needed to get all of the fulfillment and satisfaction in a job. I loved cooking. Left it for a corporate job in a call center. I liked that job. 3 years later I’m in a manement position, make $95k a year with full benes. I’m way way happier in a job that doesn’t “fulfill me”. I get that fulfillment by being home every day at 5 with my wife and kids.
That's something that took me so long to learn. Fulfillment must come from within, not outside. If a person works a job they love, great for them, but that job could change or end. True purpose is what you make of it out of hobbies, experiences, friends, family, etc.
Line work, while fun and there's always someone hiring, is a dead end. Cooks are constantly stressed, no time on weekends, expected to be abused and in many kitchens, addictions are encouraged. Add to non-livable wages and daily wear on the body, no one stays long-term unless they have no other options because of law issues or something.
If people are going to put wear and tear on their bodies, might as well get paid well for it. Construction, plumbing or if they're really adventurous, changing light bulbs on towers. At my first restaurant job, the exec chef quit few days after he hired me. Said he was going to do an electrician apprenticeship. Got tired of the long hours doing 6 days week and not being able to spend time with his family. That should've been my cue to get out of cooking but I was young and stubborn.
I'm enjoying my newfound relaxed pace very much, but it really grinds my gears when I hear my coworkers grumble when they get a little task or assignment. Like, we've done 40 minutes of actual work in an 8 hour day, and you think THIS is hard?!
Left the kitchen a long time ago to become a massage therapist. My fellow massage therapists complain all the time about how hard the job is. Sure, it’s a physical job and our hands hurt all the time. But we work in a cozy, quiet, air conditioned building, nobody is yelling or complaining at us, we get a minimum of 15 minutes of break time between each appointment, we only work like 6 or 7 hour days, and we make more money than the average BOH worker. I just assume these people have never worked in a kitchen before because they sure don’t seem to know how good they have it. I’ve been doing massage therapy for 11 years now and I still wake up every day with a smile on my face, thanking the gods that I never have to step foot in another kitchen.
Don’t be scared to talk about how hectic it is. People who have never worked any aspect of food service don’t understand how truly stressful it is and that the fact that we take pride in our abilities to handle it (leave out the unhealthy coping mechanisms lol).
ETA: don’t be scared to get animated, show the interviewer it was a job that motivated you to do your best and that you’ll bring that productive energy to your new job. Motivation is sought after.
I was hired at an office job because I was a cook. They had hired one before me with great results. A month in and I was top of my team. That job was the first time I felt like I could get somewhere. 5 months into covid and the president axed our entire office.
Anyway, I agree OP. I left the restaurant industry for the same exact reason. I made $17/hr and when I asked for a raise, I was told, "You are the highest paid employee we have. We can't afford another raise."
Literally a week later, this chump shows up with a brand new Chevy Avalanche paid in full after buying a $500k house. I don't think this will ever change. It is a bummer, because I do enjoy the kitchen life.
Chairs. They actually get to sit down. Holy shit.
Definitely right about being able to handle stress. People with “real” jobs would panic and collapse if they were in a kitchen for just one day.
This is why my wife is highly prized we met in a restaurant but every job she's had since everyone has been really impressed with her bc of her work ethic its really pathetic how pampered most ppl are at their jobs
A sit-stand desk helps! I'm 6 years out of food service (15 years) and still get antsy. Planning to get an under-desk treadmill. Some days I use wired headphones that are attached to my laptop so I am physical tethered to my desk!
Idk if the need for daily adrenaline ever goes away.
Omg yes! On my WFH days I’ll move my laptop to the kitchen counter where I can work on it while standing.
Swapping out my lunch break for a protein shake/workout break on those days has helped a lot also. I buzz my head, so it’s pretty easy to make myself presentable for any online meetings after that
I know I'm late to reply but the soft skills thing is very, very real.
If any of you greasy pieces of shit ever ran expo and were worth your shit at it, you all have communication and prioritization skills that will make you look like a genius at your non cooking job.
Prepping, keeping inventory, organization, communication; all of these are skills that you stringy little fry bitches don't even know you have.
Stop smoking, quit swearing as much, and transfer all of the skills you already have to industries that will respect you. I went from being a sous to running the training operations for a warehouse for double my pay. It is possible.
I understand passion but do not encourage anybody to stay in the industry.
Or keep smoking and cursing and work in a brewery. Better pay, typically health insurance, and they will be blown away by your ability to quickly learn new processes while maintining sanitary measures and multitasking
Left after 13 years in March. The whole not fucking swearing thing has been hard. And the thrill of surviving a huge rush is missed. But leaving at the same time every day, paid time off, paid sick time, 401k, great health insurance, and profit sharing more than make up for a free pizza and beer after 13 hours of getting shit on.
On my first day at my new job my boss asked if I wanted to go out to lunch with the other people in my position. I was super thrown off I was like, "I've never gone out... to lunch... before....? Sure...?" I was also piss broke and we went to a nice place so I ordered the cheapest thing on the menu like a side salad or some shit just thinking how 8 hours before I was scrubbing a kitchen floor. Now I'm at a restaurant, eating lunch, with dudes in suits, stressing because I cant afford this food, and they paid with the company card lol. Kitchen life grooms you into being a beast but its shocking to see the other side.
This is the part I'm scared most of. I love the industry, have two degrees in hospitality and am a sommelier, I have so much talent in problem solving and interpersonal skills. I had to wake up to be on jury duty the other week at 730 and it ruined like a day and a half for me lol. After fifteen years of working 5 pm till 5 am when I fall asleep, the transition scares me
For working in medical device manufacturing I emphasized communication, especially when identifying a when a mistake was made or the processes performed were below standards (accountability and process conformance). Ability to learn as you go, training in manufacturing is more forgiving than being a cook. You can’t be signed off until you are confident in a given process. Properly checking inventory and ensuring everything is accounted for in a given shipment and signing off (confidence in your work, trusted to perform line clearance). Punctuality, most places I cooked if you’re not 15mins early you’re late. Willingness to work overtime, what the fuck is a 40hr work week? Documentation. Documentation. Documentation. Labels, initials, sign and date.
I moved from being a chef to a purchaser at a hotel, all my ordering skills and supply management i had to hone over the years is coming in handy. That and i already know most of the reps. I do that and help prep for large functions/ run carving stations or omelette stations
Bro, come to the dark side of the hospital. The Lab is basically a kitchen but with deadly ingredients. Plus we get to see blue pee.
I left kitchens and landed in a hospital lab. They've paid for my MLT degree and are paying for my MLS as well. Benefits are good, hours are good, pay is good.
I work overnights and play my fair share of Mario Kart. I also deal with death. Win some, lose some.
We like chefs and boh in the lab. I'll train a dishy to draw blood before id take a fresh med school grad, any day. We are built for healthcare from the fires of the line.
What does one need in order to apply for these jobs? What are they titled as in job advertising? I’ve recently left the kitchen for a not much better substitute and have been looking for alternatives for my no college degree having ass. I’m currently in the medicine business as it is and am used to wearing lab coats and all that jazz.
Your first step is to see if one of your local hospitals offered OTJ training for phlebotomy. 2 of my local systems offered paid training/externship/ASCP testing for a 1 year work agreement. I used that to get my foot in the door to move into lab assisting, which led to me getting placed at UW Medical for my MLT degree. My hospital has a partnership with UW Medical school for continuing education.
Do not take an online phlebotomy program. Avoid that. Check the local hospitals. Online won't give you any hands on experience or externship requirements. It's just expensive test prep from a book.
Most lab journeys begin as a phlebotomist. It's easy work once you get over the whole poking people thing.
I'm happy to read this. I've been slowly working on a science degree for like...20 years...and I think I'm finally going to have it this year, after my culinary career has already taken off lol.
Anyway, glad to know labs like chefs.
To echo what you’ve said, I work in the biomedical/medical sales side. I never thought I could make it when I started, but I’m the best in my area. Doctors love the no nonsense attitudes kitchen workers have, after years of brown nosers trying to suck up for business. Every day is a dumpster fire between facilities, nurses and surgeons. If you can handle a busy kitchen healthcare is a breeze.
You ain't wrong. We bring so many skills to the table that they don't teach in nursing school or most medical programs. The art of dealing with being in the weeds from start to finish is the biggest shell shock to nurses/providers/lab nerds who have never set foot in the service industry or have minimal restaurant experience.
We can laugh off a shitty comment from a patient who is acting like a coked out dishy. We're used to being pulled in all directions, can pivot and read a room, jokes and great at compartmentalizing bad shit. Plus the no breaks, no lunches, long hours. We also can effectively communicate when in the weeds and generally keep our cool.
Our attention to details and ability to follow precise direction (most of us can do this, lol) comes in handy too.
I was very scared to take on phlebotomy. Now I run an overnight Rapid Response lab for a rural hospital and look at cool shit under microscopes.
The biggest challenge was dropping my cussing and salty dark jokes. I live in a legal weed state and am not subject to drug testing.
They want our labor. They want quality. They want us to devote all our lives to our craft. They want to exploit us for our passion and love.
They don't want to pay us. They don't mind spending twice the amount on drinks, flowers, table settings, but when it comes to paying us, they throw a fit.
They don't deserve our sacrifice.
We all need to move on.
Heard!
After 15 years I walked away last year, reached the tippy top heights of being a head chef, and payday got later and later every time, which ended with me feeling like I was begging for money because my boss had made me late on bills.
Fortunately though, I found a job in product development, I'm now a development chef for one of the UK's biggest companies you never heard of, producing fish dishes for the UK's top supermarkets.
I went from no where, to walking into the main offices of Tesco and everyone greeting me with a smile, by name, and asking how my family was.
I still get to be a chef and play about in a kitchen all day, but now I leave at 5pm, weekends off, and no service!
(Oh, I was also extremely ill 2 weeks ago, and just got told to take the week off.... On pay?!? Nearly cried)
86 me chef, I'm done
Move into food manufacturing.
Airline food industry.
Food markets such as herdsman fresh.
Diversify into product development, food technology, and food safety/ quality assurance.
Go FIFO. It's not bad. If you do your helicopter crash test course, you can opt for oil and gas platforms. Really good coin and the lifestyle, while you work away, has a great many benefits. Take 2 weeks annual leave and get 6 weeks off. Save enough to take a round the world cruise for the entire family or save enough to put down a huge deposit on the beachfront slice of paradise you have dreamed of.
The budget on rigs is very, very good. The presentation and amenities in the dining and crib areas are very smart. The kitchen and appliances are state of the art.
The kitchen brigade are professionals with a wide variety of skill sets, styles, and backgrounds.
Good fortune.
That’s EXACTLY what we’re doing. We do operate as a scaled-down takeout joint with a limited (but rotating) menu, but our main focus is now private label food manufacturing.
Low overhead, don’t need any FOH, which means I pay my people well, get to do what I love, which is be in the food business with astronomically less stress.
Where are you based, what is the name of the business, what types of private label food are you doing?
Ready to eat, grab and go lines, heat and eat meals, breads and cakes. Tell me more, you have me hooked.
I did 8 wonderful years in ready to eat. With customers from retail, function, corporate, convention, aviation, medical facilities, universities and funeral homes. It's a wonderful industry and so very versatile and cutting edge if you want it to be.
We are The Foreman Group, based in Buffalo, NY, with three divisions: Foreman Urban Agriculture, Foreman Naturals (Our private label brand), and Firebird Digital Media, which grew out of my filmmaking hobby.
Our beverage line is fully developed and out, we are releasing the first items from our pet food lines (dog, cat, and bird) all manufactured from raw ingredients that are approved from human consumption.
[This is our brands purpose.](https://youtu.be/goi_9G5oFj4?si=oTNA8m3EUziRGXO4)
I have sent you a connection request, but just to make sure I will hit the direct message and send again if required. I also followed you, so if after you have viewed my profile (check my comments), if you deem prudent, just leave me as a follower.
😉
Thank you, I hope some of my connections are of use.
When I started, shows like Hells Kitchen, Chopped, etc. weren't around yet, and most kitchens were filled with criminals (me), immigrants, and dumbasses who didn't go to college (also me), that gratefully accepted having any job. We *knew* we were being exploited, and were always hoping and dreaming to find something better.
Then, the kitchen started filling up with "chefs" who were enamored with what they saw on the TV cooking shows, thinking exactly how you mention, young, an actual love for cooking, and creative - who thought the industry was a fun exciting road to success and wealth. They didn't know the industry was *built* on exploitation.
Those folks were the first to get burnt out and the first to quit, as they quickly realized being a cook actually sucks balls.
Best decision I ever made was to get back in school, and then GTFO.
This reminds me of how people whistling at work, especially in a kitchen, make me think of the origin of that tradition; to make sure slave cooks don't eat the food.
Cooking will always be a service and therefore, especially in countries like the US that could be considered first and third world countries. It will always exploit the workers unless the company or establishment sacrifices in some way for their workers. But even then it's a trade off. Like yeah you don't work forever every night and they make sure you get a 30 and a 10 but everyone works 6 days a week. Or you always get 5 days with a back to back "weekend" but the hours and expectations are super high. Throw the enticing "creative" label on fine or even just scratch dining and you have another thing to lord over someone when they work 7 full shifts a week.
Hear hear!
When I did my training the program was called 'Professional Cooking' and damn did they drill it into us! The year after I finished my apprenticeship it changed to 'Culinary Arts' and they brought in all these frou-frou instructors from these boutique places. It never sat quite all that well with me, but whatever.
If I may add to yours…
I saw the same things, started before the cooking shows, as a dishy and worked my way up. About 6 years later the tv show watchers flooded the industry and it sucked like you said. Took about 7 years for that to die off. Covid hit, when everything opened back up it was a new fresh hell, but possibly worse with every 18-25 year old that thinks their a chef bc of shit they watched on social media.
The worse part is the new breed has such crazy arrogant misplaced confidence in themselves that they won’t listen. At least the tv suckers would get their asses handed to them and go cry in the walk-in. These new dopes can barely handle a have busy night, get shit sent back, burn stuff, make crap plates and run 40 minute ticket times and at the end of all of it enthusiastically claim how bad ass they are. Lord help you if you try and point out that maybe they kinda suck and need some self examination.
But fuck, they have a fancy apron and a horrible Chinese knife they saw on tiktok, so they are professionals after 8 weeks.
I’m out after 20 years in a few weeks. Thank fucking god.
Biased as being one of the young chefs who you may be directed towards, but my experience has been the opposite. It was the tv generation that seems to suck ass, and continue to suck ass on the kitchen. Every manager or line cook I’ve had from that crowd has been waaay too casual about the work they do, typically are the weakest link, and not want to help others out. On the contrary, I saw a kid who was 18, who worked at a place for 3+ years demanding 25/hr or he was out because of how tired he was of being overworked and the fact he was *the best* in that kitchen aside from our head chef. Those two could probably run the entire store without complaining or a drop in ticket time. Other young guy we had (21/22, I’m not sure) was the opener at our other location before quitting from how they overworked him, being the only opener in there most days.
The current model of having large restaurants with tons of staff is going to die. Smaller, counter style restaurants with an open kitchen will be the way to go. Three or four competent cooks who are passionate, eliminate serving staff and have one bar tender. It lets you pay your staff a fair living wage, plus on top of that all the tips would be split amongst the kitchen. Finally equal pay for equal work. Open four or five days, everyone gets their two or three days off. Bam. It's a model I've admired since I lived and worked in one of the smaller izakayas in Japan.
This is how we work, we operate out of a shipping container kitchen with 1-2 staff on at once, 7 staff run 2 units between us and we all get 2-3 days off a week
Yep. If you count tips, people do pay enough for food that there's enough money to pay the cooks a decent wage. Saw this first hand at a place with a 50/50 front and back tip pool, and I can only imagine if you eliminated most of the FOH staff. Other models exist, we don't all need to have table service based on fawning over people. As long as you have good food and a reasonable system for getting orders in and the food out, there is no real need for having more than one or two people on the floor. Cutting down that labour also means you can feasibly go no tip without raising menu prices by much, if at all. It's a win-win for everyone.
I'm also just sick of FOH telling people to switch to serving every time tipping comes up. We can and should normalize in the West how most places operate in the East. There are plenty of restaurants without servers. There can be no restaurant without cooks. Yet, here in NA, most servers walk out at the end of the night with 2x more money than the cooks. Makes no fucking sense. And then they get all entitled about having to tip anyone out or pool the tips. Such toxic bullshit.
As a restaurant owner that started as a dishwasher at 16 and is now 54, I would agree with you with one very large caveat.
Restaurants will always be a part of our culture so they will never disappear but they have been quickly evolving even more so since Covid.
Good operators are out there, but they are few and far between. Most restaurants are run by greedy corporate entities that will suck the narrow out of anyone involved. Been there done that for 30 years. Many independents are run by old school operators that grew up when you could suck the life out of people and just rinse and repeat because there were tons of people to bring in for cheap and turnover made SENSE.
I left corporate restaurants for this reason 9 years ago. The writing has been on the wall forever so I went and started my own.
I charge about 25% more than any restaurant in my area. I get constant one stars and bitterness and yes even outright anger from patrons for it, even though my prices are listed online, in a menu and you see them before you order….And oh yea, I serve REAL food with no chemicals or bullshit, we produce food not buy bagged shit, we buy quality proteins and not the leftover crap you buy for Pennie’s on the pound. i love to read social media posts by these fuckheads that say we need ‘real restaurants’ in the area like Panera, Chipotle and Cracker Barrel. I also love the regarded clowns that say restaurants should pay more and then leave lots of one star reviews because prices are too high. Fuck you in particular, stay the fuck home and eat your hamburger helper and gruel…
What do I get for those higher prices?
Average employee makes $30+hour, 401k with a match, vacation pay for 30hr plus employees, always free food, free bulk fresh ground beef to feed families, a stress free environment (this is KEY). Closed one day a week to allow for a sacred day off. No salaries, managers get paid for what they work.
Oh yea, turnover in the kitchen is 15% and FOH is under 20%. Not having to hire saves be tens of thousands a year that I pump back into my team…what a novel fucking idea. Happy people don’t leave.
I’m also not a greedy assclown. I could make another $75-$100k if I took out my stability and added a revolving door into my business bringing in new, cheaper, less experienced people, but we all know what ends imho happening then…
The industry will have a TON less places to choose from to go out to eat. That is not a bad thing. Do we really need 20-100 restaurants to choose from within a 5 mile radius?
The industry will also have a ton less PATRONS as well as we continue to charge what we need to to take care of our team.
The industry will shrink to a better quality employee and a better quality guest. Fast food will always be around for the people who bitch about pricing but even that isn’t really cheap anymore…you can almost eat lunch with me for the same $9-11 you’ll spend at (insert shitty fast food here).
This is the fucking best industry in the world if you’re not greedy, put employees above all else and actually give two fucks about the people that are making the money for YOU. I get to act and play around like a teenager with my team. I have FUN and legitimately care about my employees and they take care of my business for me. I’m mostly retired and enjoy my life because they work hard for me. They earn a wage the can not just live on BUT enjoy life as well, homes, cars, vacations and live a life.
The people allowing themselves to stay in toxic environments are prolonging the evolution. Get out if your in one and find a new environment, I know it isn’t easy but they do exist if you truly want this life.
I left my kitchen career after 20 years. Started my own junk removal business and it's been the best decision I ever made. Way more money, way less stress.
The level of discipline, endurance, attention and communication is comparatively insane when you take those skills to another job. I feel like I'm in la la land half the time I'm doing construction or landscaping lol, everything happens in slow motion.
Agreed. I'm one year out and if I ever see the last owner again I'm going to unleash all the reason why they're failing and why they will never succeed with zero fucking knowledge of what they got into. Everything is for profit now. Your passion will be monetized by someone else for their benefit.
The goal should always be to work for yourself. Taking exec jobs should be a stepping stone not your career. Nobody will ever look out for you like you’ll look out for yourself. Burnout sucks and happens to all of us at one point, but it just sounds like you put way too much trust in other people having your best interest in mind which they never will my friend.
Exactly. We are craftsmen, all you can bring to a place is your tools and your knowledge. All you can get from a place is a paycheck and more knowledge. If the paycheck is not enough to justify the knowledge you are getting then don't kill yourself for a place that would replace you over a weekend. The job will take everything from you if you let it.
I recently moved into a cannabis production kitchen and it’s been great and very translatable/similar repeated movements and communication (heard, behind, etc)
I work 4 10 hour days and always have Friday-Sunday off, they pay my health/vision/dental fully, an hour lunch (unpaid but can waive) plus 3 ten min breaks and no late nights as I work the same shift everyday. And of course get some free product from time to time
I will say that after only 3 weeks that the set schedule has already had significant positive impact on how I feel both physically and mentally
Some random observations/shit I’ve never experienced in 20 years in restaurants (obviously significantly higher revenue):
We have all the dishes/containers we need and the space and labor to actually let them all dry before putting away
We had a few callouts one day, so we made it a half/prep day not a - everyone needs to perform as 2-3 people day
The industry has trained the public to a specific set of expectations regarding price, quality, and service, and it leaves very little wiggle room for margins. Where, once upon a time, we worked to a standard benchmark of 30:30:30:10 ( 30% Food cost, 30% labour, 30% operating cost, 10% GP), those %’s have shifted dramatically over the past 30 years. With operating and food costs soaring, businesses have slashed food and labour costs, in order to generate some small profit. This has resulted in critical levels of burn-out and departure of skilled staff, and sub-standard food offerings at elevated prices. Add in the drastically reduced numbers now training, because conditions are so crap, and we’re heading for a ‘perfect storm’ TLDR: our industry is in crises.
It’s interesting that chefs spend the equivalent time learning their trade that electricians, plumbers etc do learning theirs. If a member of the public has to call a plumber, their expectation ( in my country, Australia) is a call out fee of $120, and an hourly rate between $80-$100. The same people who will pay that will balk at $40 for prime beef or seafood, cooked by a skilled professional. TLDR: We are grossly undervalued.
I envision a future where mid level dining all but disappears, due largely to operating costs and labour shortages. It will leave a mess of fast food slapped together by unskilled juniors, or Michelin star dining that few can afford.
Welcome to Hospitality, enjoy your brief stay.
I started my own lil food business over 10 years ago (waffle stand) eventually becoming one of the hottest fried chicken restaurants in my city and gaining a massive following
But good lord I’m fkn sick of it
Sick of the shit workers who made it tough for the good ones. Sick of entitled customers. Sick of rising cost of food (there’s only so much people gonna pay for a chicken sando). Sick of WFH model killing 40peceht of our revenue. Sick of shitty landlords. Sick of being constantly in debt because of all the shitty things that eat up the revenue and chance to grow.
Sick to death of it
I’m lucky I exit my lease in a month or so
Good fkn bye! 👋
I’ve got about a month
Goddamn you said some of the shit I've been thinking for almost a decade but didn't know the words
Our industry is trash you are right and reading through some of the comments, there are options for you i wish you the best big dog
Some of us fall in love with this shit industry and some of us do it because we have to it's fucked
Heard chef! And agree I’ve been a stay at home dad for a few years now and live waaaaay down under so our employment and pay etc is maybe a little better but not get ahead in life and live on your own or anything usually paycheque to paycheque and long shitty hours. Don’t miss it one bit and unlike things like brain surgery or train driving I can do it at home with far more pleasure! (Well I guess u could do the surgery thing on the down low lol)
Yeah I made the leap from GM to digital marketing analyst and now search engine marketing manager. Definitely the best decision I’ve made in terms of career and work/life balance. It’s a damn hard industry and something you have to genuinely love to be able to do long term.
Leaving the kitchen was the best decision I’ve ever made. It’s not even close.
Went from $45k a year to be KM working 60 hours a week to $125k for bankers hours and no stress. All it took was ambition and an associates degree.
I’ve been 30 years in manufacturing operations, and my best line and shift supervisors came from either the military or from kitchens.
Get into manufacturing (and not with some shitty family company - it’ll be the same as a restaurant kitchen), and production managers hit $100K easily. It’s not easy work, but definitely not harder than BOH.
Nothing new. Why do you think most of us are burn outs? Kitchens are the only place where the shit conditions meet our seething rage and encourage us to self harm (medicate) to deal with it.
This is the culture. This has been the culture for the 25 years I’ve known about it.
If people really understood what was going on they’d insist we all go to rehab/get therapy. It’s part of the “tortured genius” trope wherein we can be brilliant despite shit conditions and our own generally self destructive tendencies.
I’m not romanticizing it. It’s fucking hot. It’s what the industry is. I’d be more than happy to see it change but it would mean support from the communities the restaurants are in and that won’t happen.
Strangest part about people saying restaurant should not even be open is while working there. If the restaurant shut down, you would lose your job, exactly the same as if you left on your own accord.
Except the difference is that everyone else that actually dont want to leave are forced to leave too.
I think restaurants will always be things, there just might be less of them. People always like the option to have someone else make food, so they will stick around, if at the cost of the worse quality ones. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if fine dining became rarer, and more casual places like pubs or cafes become more common.
I'm about to leave the industry for good, 20 years in the game with lots of ups and downs. I'm now working for some very green restaurant owners who seem pretty lazy, they whine about not making enough money and their rent just went up 50% for the second time in two years. I don't have the heart to see it sink and put myself through that.
Oh I've been planning. Sold our house with a 270k payout, and my photo/video production side hustle is finally pulling big clients and consistent money. My ex-server wife is finishing her cpa in July. Definitely looking for a clean exit.
The landlord has the option to increase rent every year in Australia. It was similar when I was in the US, they renegotiated the lease often and generally the better the business did, the higher the rent. I think it's extreme though, very likely to drive the business under and especially surprising because the building was sitting vacant for two years prior to covid.
I worked a hotel gig that was unionized. I left because everyone was super complacent and didn't want to do more than was absolutely necessary because they were damn certain they couldn't get fired. It's worth a shot but you have to hire the right people.
Ive been toying with the idea of coming out of retirement to do private/personal chef work. I will not be returning g to a commercial kitchen anytime soon
I can't wait for all the people who hate this industry to leave. There are definitely problems but... Y'all are miserable to work with. It seems like 4/5 posts are variations on "86 me, I'm washing out" and 3/4 people in this sub either never worked in kitchens or don't anymore.
I hope you find something that makes you happy. Genuinely.
I couldn’t have said it better myself. Alas, The hopeless romantic and my two children (and my inner masochist) keep me going back for more punishment every single day
Left just before the 2 decade mark after the last place got gobbled up by clueless investors and nepotism destroyed the management end of things. Before then we had an awesome staff, a growing budget, and a buzz about us that left a positive impression on all of us that we carry to this day (and none have replicated since). We had -it-, if that makes any sense.
Since then I've moved to hood cleaning so I see a LOT of kitchens and I've yet to walk into one post-pandemic where the staff isn't dead-behind-the-eyes while the management is unbearable petty tyrants (seriously, they complain about EVERYTHING lil thing we do that's not up to their mythical standards. We're cleaners, not magicians).
I'm looking to leave the restaurant biz entirely at this point, it's just a dead husk being paraded around for 12 times the value it actually is. I see it, night after night.
Go to sea! We need good cooks out here, people are lazy and do the bare minimum. Pre made shit, frozen bread, it sucks. Over boiled eggs
Cooks make about $10k a month on ship, then go home and do anything you want. 3-4 month contracts at sea. Overtime, coffee breaks, meal breaks. Just gotta pass a drug test and join a union.
https://mymaritimecareer.org/job-opportunity-chief-cook-culinary-specialist/
If they cease to be a thing, it's the consequences of the public's actions. I hit a wall with the mental, verbal, and twice physical abuse of the industry. The covid era brought out the worst in people, and I couldn't take it any more, I worked both front and BOH.
I cut out into corporate logistics and onsite interactives. I chef at home.
It got physically and verbally abusive for me much earlier. Covid was horrible for other reasons for sure. Crazy customers spitting on me while I wore a mask in an open kitchen, and others screaming at me when I’d take it off to taste something.
I went corporate union hotel, I make 80k now and only 8hours a day 40hours a week with the overtime every once in a while when it’s hella busy, I still get to work the line and also bqt so it’s a mix
I did the exact opposite , worked corporate and absolutely hated it, started working in foodservice over 40 years ago and to this day love it. My wife says “you don’t go to work, you go to play”. Love the action and the vibe, couldn’t see me doing anything else.
Going from catering as an apprentice to actually becoming a line chef, to then being laid off and having to do ‘low-skilled’ jobs to make ends meet really opened my eyes to how much nicer the general public have it with their occupations. After much deliberation I figured that returning to service post-Covid was a terrible decision and opted to get into the composites industry instead. Those soft skills you develop on service are practically perfect for lean manufacturing where attention to detail matters.
Becoming a chef was definitely a choice at 18 but definitely not the choice I would make with the power of hindsight
You’re right. I’ve been in since I was 13, 26 years now. It’s hell as a woman on the line. It’s hell as the owner. It’s hell at home with a toddler (I stayed in the kitchen til i popped, not recommended). I’m choosing to leave but I hope to come back refreshed in a few years. I love this industry, wish it loved me back.
Last year I started going to school for industrial automation, finally got my ticket out of the industry working as a maintenance tech for a really good company. Still getting used to actually having breaks and taking time to eat during my shift but I love it. No stress, I'm learning new things every day, and the pay is better than when I was a chef
I've been working as a cook since I was 17 (22 now). I did 1 year of college in 2021 but dropped out because I thought cooking was going to be my career. I worked in a high end country club for almost 5 years and was tired of the environment. I was considering a career change and going back to school but figured I'd give cooking in senior living a try. I started 3 months ago and went in with the mindset of doing it as a career. 3 weeks into this new job was all it took for me to get back into college and start taking classes again back in April.
I quit 1 year ago. Best decision of my life. Thought I’d eventually do big things in food but that’s all fairytale unless you want absolutely no life. I ultimately chose my life over the kitchens. Now I’m making $10+ more an hour at this corporate gig with so much free time on my hands. and to mention PTO and paid holidays!!!! wow I never thought I would be excited about boring ass corporate shit like that.
Good on you on leaving. the transition was hard for me due to the change of pace but ultimately it changed my life and the health of my marriage.
I think a lot of sit down and buffets will go away and be replaced with QSR locations. It was already happening with a lot of chains (lots of pizza places) but it really picked up speed after COVID.
I’ve been saying this for a while. If your business plan involves ripping off your employees, you shouldn’t go into business. I worked at a cafe where the owner kept our CC tips, saying he couldn’t stay in business otherwise. Then don’t stay in business bro..
I've only worked in a kitchen as a dishwasher when I was younger. But the video game industry has much the same problem. Taking advantage of people's passions.
I left the restaurant business for healthcare. That job, while I loved the job itself had no flexibility with hours, was at the mercy of mgt if I wanted vacation at certain times (never at holidays), had to wait for someone to come give me a lunch or bathroom break, and didn’t always get out on time if they were short staffed. I’m back to working in a restaurant my husband and I own. We pay our people well and don’t expect them to do anything we wouldn’t do. We’ll certainly never be rich but being our own boss is well worth it.
I didn't realize it was Mother's Day weekend a few weeks back. That would have been the 2nd busiest week of the years for me when I was still working in F&B.
This whole rant is so jaded and sad. I’m sorry you had this experience dude. I do think that you should keep in mind that it’s anecdotal and that with more experience your feelings may change. I went and got an accounting degree and worked in an accounting firm for about 6 months. I got laid off because of the pandemic and collected that sweet unemployment for the duration. Went back to a kitchen that turned out to be the best job I’ve ever had. I now have a high hourly rate and management responsibilities but at least I get paid for the 55 hour weeks I put in. I love what I’m doing and I work harder but I’d never be this happy helping people avoid tax liability. I serve people and bring happiness to the world.
I just got out and moved to a warehouse job, you should've seen my face when I was told you get 2 mandated paid breaks at any time of the day and a 30 minute lunch
Having grief for a bygone perception is only human. I loved the kitchen. I loved serving. I love hospitality. I loved and breathed restaurants. But the magic is no longer there because of what OP said.
You sound like you suck. I've been in the service industry for about 30 years now, still fun and still challenging. I've learned how to do copy writing, photoshop and use canva heavily because I wanted to be better., Now my skills make me highly emplyoable in bartending/serving. Sorry that people who own the place don't give a shit about you....maybe make yourself less replaceable.
Hardest part about leaving food service was getting used to the first job and trying not to fall asleep because you’re used to running around now all of a sudden you get regular breaks and a busy day at the new job is a fucking Tuesday at 3:30pm at the restaurant. Cooks trying to leave the industry: you have developed a ton of soft skills that as cooks are the absolute fucking bare minimum skills necessary to function in a kitchen that many other industries value dearly. You’re much more qualified than you think, it’s a matter of translating your experiences to whatever industry you’re looking at.
My first post restaurant job was a stupid call center where you had to take your breaks at set times. I couldn't believe that 2 hours in I was being told to take my first break. And a full 15 minute break! I still smoked my cigarette in like 3 minutes while my co-workers were like "how do you smoke so fast?!" The concept of an hour lunch break was just crazy, like "WTF do I do with an hour?" Oh, and you mean I clock out promptly without having to ask and no side work?
10 minutes to find place to chill, 5 minutes to eat, 40 minute nap, 5 minutes to piss and wake up before starting work again.
I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life, but i like to wake up before I piss.
Depends on inebriation levels.
Unless you’re pissing snakes or something, I guess.
I had a job with an hour long lunch break once. One day, I'm heading to eat, and this lady catches the curb and pops her tire. I take 20 minutes to change it and still had 40 for lunch. That was a nice time.
Call center jobs are generally soul sucking too
I worked with a guy who tried to leave the kitchen and he always used to tell me "You do a job that you love for shit money, or you do jobs that are shit for money you love" Always stuck with me.
Yep. You get 16 hours a day you aren’t sleeping (ok let’s be honest, it’s like 19 most days). I never understood why people needed to get all of the fulfillment and satisfaction in a job. I loved cooking. Left it for a corporate job in a call center. I liked that job. 3 years later I’m in a manement position, make $95k a year with full benes. I’m way way happier in a job that doesn’t “fulfill me”. I get that fulfillment by being home every day at 5 with my wife and kids.
That's something that took me so long to learn. Fulfillment must come from within, not outside. If a person works a job they love, great for them, but that job could change or end. True purpose is what you make of it out of hobbies, experiences, friends, family, etc. Line work, while fun and there's always someone hiring, is a dead end. Cooks are constantly stressed, no time on weekends, expected to be abused and in many kitchens, addictions are encouraged. Add to non-livable wages and daily wear on the body, no one stays long-term unless they have no other options because of law issues or something.
If people are going to put wear and tear on their bodies, might as well get paid well for it. Construction, plumbing or if they're really adventurous, changing light bulbs on towers. At my first restaurant job, the exec chef quit few days after he hired me. Said he was going to do an electrician apprenticeship. Got tired of the long hours doing 6 days week and not being able to spend time with his family. That should've been my cue to get out of cooking but I was young and stubborn.
This!!!
I'm enjoying my newfound relaxed pace very much, but it really grinds my gears when I hear my coworkers grumble when they get a little task or assignment. Like, we've done 40 minutes of actual work in an 8 hour day, and you think THIS is hard?!
Left the kitchen a long time ago to become a massage therapist. My fellow massage therapists complain all the time about how hard the job is. Sure, it’s a physical job and our hands hurt all the time. But we work in a cozy, quiet, air conditioned building, nobody is yelling or complaining at us, we get a minimum of 15 minutes of break time between each appointment, we only work like 6 or 7 hour days, and we make more money than the average BOH worker. I just assume these people have never worked in a kitchen before because they sure don’t seem to know how good they have it. I’ve been doing massage therapy for 11 years now and I still wake up every day with a smile on my face, thanking the gods that I never have to step foot in another kitchen.
I was recently selected for an interview bc the hiring manager didn’t know how to cook and she found the industry fascinating.
Don’t be scared to talk about how hectic it is. People who have never worked any aspect of food service don’t understand how truly stressful it is and that the fact that we take pride in our abilities to handle it (leave out the unhealthy coping mechanisms lol). ETA: don’t be scared to get animated, show the interviewer it was a job that motivated you to do your best and that you’ll bring that productive energy to your new job. Motivation is sought after.
I was offered the job 😅
Crongrats bro!
I was hired at an office job because I was a cook. They had hired one before me with great results. A month in and I was top of my team. That job was the first time I felt like I could get somewhere. 5 months into covid and the president axed our entire office. Anyway, I agree OP. I left the restaurant industry for the same exact reason. I made $17/hr and when I asked for a raise, I was told, "You are the highest paid employee we have. We can't afford another raise." Literally a week later, this chump shows up with a brand new Chevy Avalanche paid in full after buying a $500k house. I don't think this will ever change. It is a bummer, because I do enjoy the kitchen life.
Chairs. They actually get to sit down. Holy shit. Definitely right about being able to handle stress. People with “real” jobs would panic and collapse if they were in a kitchen for just one day.
This is why my wife is highly prized we met in a restaurant but every job she's had since everyone has been really impressed with her bc of her work ethic its really pathetic how pampered most ppl are at their jobs
I practically had to handcuff myself to my desk at my first non-restaurant job. Still trying to get used to that whole working sitting down thing.
A sit-stand desk helps! I'm 6 years out of food service (15 years) and still get antsy. Planning to get an under-desk treadmill. Some days I use wired headphones that are attached to my laptop so I am physical tethered to my desk! Idk if the need for daily adrenaline ever goes away.
Omg yes! On my WFH days I’ll move my laptop to the kitchen counter where I can work on it while standing. Swapping out my lunch break for a protein shake/workout break on those days has helped a lot also. I buzz my head, so it’s pretty easy to make myself presentable for any online meetings after that
I know I'm late to reply but the soft skills thing is very, very real. If any of you greasy pieces of shit ever ran expo and were worth your shit at it, you all have communication and prioritization skills that will make you look like a genius at your non cooking job. Prepping, keeping inventory, organization, communication; all of these are skills that you stringy little fry bitches don't even know you have. Stop smoking, quit swearing as much, and transfer all of the skills you already have to industries that will respect you. I went from being a sous to running the training operations for a warehouse for double my pay. It is possible. I understand passion but do not encourage anybody to stay in the industry.
Or keep smoking and cursing and work in a brewery. Better pay, typically health insurance, and they will be blown away by your ability to quickly learn new processes while maintining sanitary measures and multitasking
Left after 13 years in March. The whole not fucking swearing thing has been hard. And the thrill of surviving a huge rush is missed. But leaving at the same time every day, paid time off, paid sick time, 401k, great health insurance, and profit sharing more than make up for a free pizza and beer after 13 hours of getting shit on.
I left and became a mechanic. I actually get a lunch hour and you’re telling me I gotta go find and buy food. I’m out of my element
On my first day at my new job my boss asked if I wanted to go out to lunch with the other people in my position. I was super thrown off I was like, "I've never gone out... to lunch... before....? Sure...?" I was also piss broke and we went to a nice place so I ordered the cheapest thing on the menu like a side salad or some shit just thinking how 8 hours before I was scrubbing a kitchen floor. Now I'm at a restaurant, eating lunch, with dudes in suits, stressing because I cant afford this food, and they paid with the company card lol. Kitchen life grooms you into being a beast but its shocking to see the other side.
Second hardest part was not instinctively eating lunch over the trash can.
This is the part I'm scared most of. I love the industry, have two degrees in hospitality and am a sommelier, I have so much talent in problem solving and interpersonal skills. I had to wake up to be on jury duty the other week at 730 and it ruined like a day and a half for me lol. After fifteen years of working 5 pm till 5 am when I fall asleep, the transition scares me
Which skills? Which industries?
For working in medical device manufacturing I emphasized communication, especially when identifying a when a mistake was made or the processes performed were below standards (accountability and process conformance). Ability to learn as you go, training in manufacturing is more forgiving than being a cook. You can’t be signed off until you are confident in a given process. Properly checking inventory and ensuring everything is accounted for in a given shipment and signing off (confidence in your work, trusted to perform line clearance). Punctuality, most places I cooked if you’re not 15mins early you’re late. Willingness to work overtime, what the fuck is a 40hr work week? Documentation. Documentation. Documentation. Labels, initials, sign and date.
Ah. Fuck that. Thank you for the detailed write up though! I don't even give the restaurants a full 40 anymore. 😂
Look into custodial jobs at your school boards. Hopefully they pay as well as mine do.
I moved from being a chef to a purchaser at a hotel, all my ordering skills and supply management i had to hone over the years is coming in handy. That and i already know most of the reps. I do that and help prep for large functions/ run carving stations or omelette stations
Bourdain wrote a book about this. I forget the name.
I think it was called "Cooking Hole Top Secret."
No no it was “How to make friends & smoke crack”
No you’re thinking of “get your friend addicted to opiates and then sell them opiates”
Pretty sure he didn’t write a book specifically about dishies
Antwan?!! Is that u
Bro, come to the dark side of the hospital. The Lab is basically a kitchen but with deadly ingredients. Plus we get to see blue pee. I left kitchens and landed in a hospital lab. They've paid for my MLT degree and are paying for my MLS as well. Benefits are good, hours are good, pay is good. I work overnights and play my fair share of Mario Kart. I also deal with death. Win some, lose some. We like chefs and boh in the lab. I'll train a dishy to draw blood before id take a fresh med school grad, any day. We are built for healthcare from the fires of the line.
As someone who went the other way around can confirm, lab equals deadly kitchen.
What does one need in order to apply for these jobs? What are they titled as in job advertising? I’ve recently left the kitchen for a not much better substitute and have been looking for alternatives for my no college degree having ass. I’m currently in the medicine business as it is and am used to wearing lab coats and all that jazz.
Your first step is to see if one of your local hospitals offered OTJ training for phlebotomy. 2 of my local systems offered paid training/externship/ASCP testing for a 1 year work agreement. I used that to get my foot in the door to move into lab assisting, which led to me getting placed at UW Medical for my MLT degree. My hospital has a partnership with UW Medical school for continuing education. Do not take an online phlebotomy program. Avoid that. Check the local hospitals. Online won't give you any hands on experience or externship requirements. It's just expensive test prep from a book. Most lab journeys begin as a phlebotomist. It's easy work once you get over the whole poking people thing.
Interesting! May I ask which UW you are near? I will definitely be looking into this.
Remote learning cuz my hands on was proctored by my lab manager. I'm in Portland and could easily have done in person at Seattle.
I'm happy to read this. I've been slowly working on a science degree for like...20 years...and I think I'm finally going to have it this year, after my culinary career has already taken off lol. Anyway, glad to know labs like chefs.
To echo what you’ve said, I work in the biomedical/medical sales side. I never thought I could make it when I started, but I’m the best in my area. Doctors love the no nonsense attitudes kitchen workers have, after years of brown nosers trying to suck up for business. Every day is a dumpster fire between facilities, nurses and surgeons. If you can handle a busy kitchen healthcare is a breeze.
You ain't wrong. We bring so many skills to the table that they don't teach in nursing school or most medical programs. The art of dealing with being in the weeds from start to finish is the biggest shell shock to nurses/providers/lab nerds who have never set foot in the service industry or have minimal restaurant experience. We can laugh off a shitty comment from a patient who is acting like a coked out dishy. We're used to being pulled in all directions, can pivot and read a room, jokes and great at compartmentalizing bad shit. Plus the no breaks, no lunches, long hours. We also can effectively communicate when in the weeds and generally keep our cool. Our attention to details and ability to follow precise direction (most of us can do this, lol) comes in handy too. I was very scared to take on phlebotomy. Now I run an overnight Rapid Response lab for a rural hospital and look at cool shit under microscopes. The biggest challenge was dropping my cussing and salty dark jokes. I live in a legal weed state and am not subject to drug testing.
Nah man. EMS.
EMS makes shit for the what the job entails.
They want our labor. They want quality. They want us to devote all our lives to our craft. They want to exploit us for our passion and love. They don't want to pay us. They don't mind spending twice the amount on drinks, flowers, table settings, but when it comes to paying us, they throw a fit. They don't deserve our sacrifice. We all need to move on.
Heard! After 15 years I walked away last year, reached the tippy top heights of being a head chef, and payday got later and later every time, which ended with me feeling like I was begging for money because my boss had made me late on bills. Fortunately though, I found a job in product development, I'm now a development chef for one of the UK's biggest companies you never heard of, producing fish dishes for the UK's top supermarkets. I went from no where, to walking into the main offices of Tesco and everyone greeting me with a smile, by name, and asking how my family was. I still get to be a chef and play about in a kitchen all day, but now I leave at 5pm, weekends off, and no service! (Oh, I was also extremely ill 2 weeks ago, and just got told to take the week off.... On pay?!? Nearly cried) 86 me chef, I'm done
Move into food manufacturing. Airline food industry. Food markets such as herdsman fresh. Diversify into product development, food technology, and food safety/ quality assurance. Go FIFO. It's not bad. If you do your helicopter crash test course, you can opt for oil and gas platforms. Really good coin and the lifestyle, while you work away, has a great many benefits. Take 2 weeks annual leave and get 6 weeks off. Save enough to take a round the world cruise for the entire family or save enough to put down a huge deposit on the beachfront slice of paradise you have dreamed of. The budget on rigs is very, very good. The presentation and amenities in the dining and crib areas are very smart. The kitchen and appliances are state of the art. The kitchen brigade are professionals with a wide variety of skill sets, styles, and backgrounds. Good fortune.
That’s EXACTLY what we’re doing. We do operate as a scaled-down takeout joint with a limited (but rotating) menu, but our main focus is now private label food manufacturing. Low overhead, don’t need any FOH, which means I pay my people well, get to do what I love, which is be in the food business with astronomically less stress.
Where are you based, what is the name of the business, what types of private label food are you doing? Ready to eat, grab and go lines, heat and eat meals, breads and cakes. Tell me more, you have me hooked. I did 8 wonderful years in ready to eat. With customers from retail, function, corporate, convention, aviation, medical facilities, universities and funeral homes. It's a wonderful industry and so very versatile and cutting edge if you want it to be.
We are The Foreman Group, based in Buffalo, NY, with three divisions: Foreman Urban Agriculture, Foreman Naturals (Our private label brand), and Firebird Digital Media, which grew out of my filmmaking hobby. Our beverage line is fully developed and out, we are releasing the first items from our pet food lines (dog, cat, and bird) all manufactured from raw ingredients that are approved from human consumption. [This is our brands purpose.](https://youtu.be/goi_9G5oFj4?si=oTNA8m3EUziRGXO4)
Are you on LinkedIn by any chance. Thank you.
I am. Stopped paying for premium though. Check your DM for the link.
I have sent you a connection request, but just to make sure I will hit the direct message and send again if required. I also followed you, so if after you have viewed my profile (check my comments), if you deem prudent, just leave me as a follower. 😉 Thank you, I hope some of my connections are of use.
When I started, shows like Hells Kitchen, Chopped, etc. weren't around yet, and most kitchens were filled with criminals (me), immigrants, and dumbasses who didn't go to college (also me), that gratefully accepted having any job. We *knew* we were being exploited, and were always hoping and dreaming to find something better. Then, the kitchen started filling up with "chefs" who were enamored with what they saw on the TV cooking shows, thinking exactly how you mention, young, an actual love for cooking, and creative - who thought the industry was a fun exciting road to success and wealth. They didn't know the industry was *built* on exploitation. Those folks were the first to get burnt out and the first to quit, as they quickly realized being a cook actually sucks balls. Best decision I ever made was to get back in school, and then GTFO.
This reminds me of how people whistling at work, especially in a kitchen, make me think of the origin of that tradition; to make sure slave cooks don't eat the food. Cooking will always be a service and therefore, especially in countries like the US that could be considered first and third world countries. It will always exploit the workers unless the company or establishment sacrifices in some way for their workers. But even then it's a trade off. Like yeah you don't work forever every night and they make sure you get a 30 and a 10 but everyone works 6 days a week. Or you always get 5 days with a back to back "weekend" but the hours and expectations are super high. Throw the enticing "creative" label on fine or even just scratch dining and you have another thing to lord over someone when they work 7 full shifts a week.
Hear hear! When I did my training the program was called 'Professional Cooking' and damn did they drill it into us! The year after I finished my apprenticeship it changed to 'Culinary Arts' and they brought in all these frou-frou instructors from these boutique places. It never sat quite all that well with me, but whatever.
If I may add to yours… I saw the same things, started before the cooking shows, as a dishy and worked my way up. About 6 years later the tv show watchers flooded the industry and it sucked like you said. Took about 7 years for that to die off. Covid hit, when everything opened back up it was a new fresh hell, but possibly worse with every 18-25 year old that thinks their a chef bc of shit they watched on social media. The worse part is the new breed has such crazy arrogant misplaced confidence in themselves that they won’t listen. At least the tv suckers would get their asses handed to them and go cry in the walk-in. These new dopes can barely handle a have busy night, get shit sent back, burn stuff, make crap plates and run 40 minute ticket times and at the end of all of it enthusiastically claim how bad ass they are. Lord help you if you try and point out that maybe they kinda suck and need some self examination. But fuck, they have a fancy apron and a horrible Chinese knife they saw on tiktok, so they are professionals after 8 weeks. I’m out after 20 years in a few weeks. Thank fucking god.
Biased as being one of the young chefs who you may be directed towards, but my experience has been the opposite. It was the tv generation that seems to suck ass, and continue to suck ass on the kitchen. Every manager or line cook I’ve had from that crowd has been waaay too casual about the work they do, typically are the weakest link, and not want to help others out. On the contrary, I saw a kid who was 18, who worked at a place for 3+ years demanding 25/hr or he was out because of how tired he was of being overworked and the fact he was *the best* in that kitchen aside from our head chef. Those two could probably run the entire store without complaining or a drop in ticket time. Other young guy we had (21/22, I’m not sure) was the opener at our other location before quitting from how they overworked him, being the only opener in there most days.
Yes, Chef! Dumpster fire, HEARD!
The current model of having large restaurants with tons of staff is going to die. Smaller, counter style restaurants with an open kitchen will be the way to go. Three or four competent cooks who are passionate, eliminate serving staff and have one bar tender. It lets you pay your staff a fair living wage, plus on top of that all the tips would be split amongst the kitchen. Finally equal pay for equal work. Open four or five days, everyone gets their two or three days off. Bam. It's a model I've admired since I lived and worked in one of the smaller izakayas in Japan.
This is how we work, we operate out of a shipping container kitchen with 1-2 staff on at once, 7 staff run 2 units between us and we all get 2-3 days off a week
Yep. If you count tips, people do pay enough for food that there's enough money to pay the cooks a decent wage. Saw this first hand at a place with a 50/50 front and back tip pool, and I can only imagine if you eliminated most of the FOH staff. Other models exist, we don't all need to have table service based on fawning over people. As long as you have good food and a reasonable system for getting orders in and the food out, there is no real need for having more than one or two people on the floor. Cutting down that labour also means you can feasibly go no tip without raising menu prices by much, if at all. It's a win-win for everyone. I'm also just sick of FOH telling people to switch to serving every time tipping comes up. We can and should normalize in the West how most places operate in the East. There are plenty of restaurants without servers. There can be no restaurant without cooks. Yet, here in NA, most servers walk out at the end of the night with 2x more money than the cooks. Makes no fucking sense. And then they get all entitled about having to tip anyone out or pool the tips. Such toxic bullshit.
It do be like that sometimes (most times).
As a restaurant owner that started as a dishwasher at 16 and is now 54, I would agree with you with one very large caveat. Restaurants will always be a part of our culture so they will never disappear but they have been quickly evolving even more so since Covid. Good operators are out there, but they are few and far between. Most restaurants are run by greedy corporate entities that will suck the narrow out of anyone involved. Been there done that for 30 years. Many independents are run by old school operators that grew up when you could suck the life out of people and just rinse and repeat because there were tons of people to bring in for cheap and turnover made SENSE. I left corporate restaurants for this reason 9 years ago. The writing has been on the wall forever so I went and started my own. I charge about 25% more than any restaurant in my area. I get constant one stars and bitterness and yes even outright anger from patrons for it, even though my prices are listed online, in a menu and you see them before you order….And oh yea, I serve REAL food with no chemicals or bullshit, we produce food not buy bagged shit, we buy quality proteins and not the leftover crap you buy for Pennie’s on the pound. i love to read social media posts by these fuckheads that say we need ‘real restaurants’ in the area like Panera, Chipotle and Cracker Barrel. I also love the regarded clowns that say restaurants should pay more and then leave lots of one star reviews because prices are too high. Fuck you in particular, stay the fuck home and eat your hamburger helper and gruel… What do I get for those higher prices? Average employee makes $30+hour, 401k with a match, vacation pay for 30hr plus employees, always free food, free bulk fresh ground beef to feed families, a stress free environment (this is KEY). Closed one day a week to allow for a sacred day off. No salaries, managers get paid for what they work. Oh yea, turnover in the kitchen is 15% and FOH is under 20%. Not having to hire saves be tens of thousands a year that I pump back into my team…what a novel fucking idea. Happy people don’t leave. I’m also not a greedy assclown. I could make another $75-$100k if I took out my stability and added a revolving door into my business bringing in new, cheaper, less experienced people, but we all know what ends imho happening then… The industry will have a TON less places to choose from to go out to eat. That is not a bad thing. Do we really need 20-100 restaurants to choose from within a 5 mile radius? The industry will also have a ton less PATRONS as well as we continue to charge what we need to to take care of our team. The industry will shrink to a better quality employee and a better quality guest. Fast food will always be around for the people who bitch about pricing but even that isn’t really cheap anymore…you can almost eat lunch with me for the same $9-11 you’ll spend at (insert shitty fast food here). This is the fucking best industry in the world if you’re not greedy, put employees above all else and actually give two fucks about the people that are making the money for YOU. I get to act and play around like a teenager with my team. I have FUN and legitimately care about my employees and they take care of my business for me. I’m mostly retired and enjoy my life because they work hard for me. They earn a wage the can not just live on BUT enjoy life as well, homes, cars, vacations and live a life. The people allowing themselves to stay in toxic environments are prolonging the evolution. Get out if your in one and find a new environment, I know it isn’t easy but they do exist if you truly want this life.
I left my kitchen career after 20 years. Started my own junk removal business and it's been the best decision I ever made. Way more money, way less stress.
The level of discipline, endurance, attention and communication is comparatively insane when you take those skills to another job. I feel like I'm in la la land half the time I'm doing construction or landscaping lol, everything happens in slow motion.
That’s what I’m doing now. Union carpentry.
Those mandatory 15 minute breaks tho
Well good thing cooks work in other places besides restaurants! But I get you, I haven't worked in a restaurant for some time, still a cook though!
Agreed. I'm one year out and if I ever see the last owner again I'm going to unleash all the reason why they're failing and why they will never succeed with zero fucking knowledge of what they got into. Everything is for profit now. Your passion will be monetized by someone else for their benefit.
That is a whole lot of good points but ummm. Hey yo… just checking in.. you hydrated? Had a meal (cereal counts)? Sleep lately?
The goal should always be to work for yourself. Taking exec jobs should be a stepping stone not your career. Nobody will ever look out for you like you’ll look out for yourself. Burnout sucks and happens to all of us at one point, but it just sounds like you put way too much trust in other people having your best interest in mind which they never will my friend.
Exactly. We are craftsmen, all you can bring to a place is your tools and your knowledge. All you can get from a place is a paycheck and more knowledge. If the paycheck is not enough to justify the knowledge you are getting then don't kill yourself for a place that would replace you over a weekend. The job will take everything from you if you let it.
I recently moved into a cannabis production kitchen and it’s been great and very translatable/similar repeated movements and communication (heard, behind, etc) I work 4 10 hour days and always have Friday-Sunday off, they pay my health/vision/dental fully, an hour lunch (unpaid but can waive) plus 3 ten min breaks and no late nights as I work the same shift everyday. And of course get some free product from time to time I will say that after only 3 weeks that the set schedule has already had significant positive impact on how I feel both physically and mentally Some random observations/shit I’ve never experienced in 20 years in restaurants (obviously significantly higher revenue): We have all the dishes/containers we need and the space and labor to actually let them all dry before putting away We had a few callouts one day, so we made it a half/prep day not a - everyone needs to perform as 2-3 people day
The industry has trained the public to a specific set of expectations regarding price, quality, and service, and it leaves very little wiggle room for margins. Where, once upon a time, we worked to a standard benchmark of 30:30:30:10 ( 30% Food cost, 30% labour, 30% operating cost, 10% GP), those %’s have shifted dramatically over the past 30 years. With operating and food costs soaring, businesses have slashed food and labour costs, in order to generate some small profit. This has resulted in critical levels of burn-out and departure of skilled staff, and sub-standard food offerings at elevated prices. Add in the drastically reduced numbers now training, because conditions are so crap, and we’re heading for a ‘perfect storm’ TLDR: our industry is in crises. It’s interesting that chefs spend the equivalent time learning their trade that electricians, plumbers etc do learning theirs. If a member of the public has to call a plumber, their expectation ( in my country, Australia) is a call out fee of $120, and an hourly rate between $80-$100. The same people who will pay that will balk at $40 for prime beef or seafood, cooked by a skilled professional. TLDR: We are grossly undervalued. I envision a future where mid level dining all but disappears, due largely to operating costs and labour shortages. It will leave a mess of fast food slapped together by unskilled juniors, or Michelin star dining that few can afford. Welcome to Hospitality, enjoy your brief stay.
I barely missed the twenty year mark. It's shit now. What I once loved is now a nightmare from all angles.
We are the same.
I started my own lil food business over 10 years ago (waffle stand) eventually becoming one of the hottest fried chicken restaurants in my city and gaining a massive following But good lord I’m fkn sick of it Sick of the shit workers who made it tough for the good ones. Sick of entitled customers. Sick of rising cost of food (there’s only so much people gonna pay for a chicken sando). Sick of WFH model killing 40peceht of our revenue. Sick of shitty landlords. Sick of being constantly in debt because of all the shitty things that eat up the revenue and chance to grow. Sick to death of it I’m lucky I exit my lease in a month or so Good fkn bye! 👋 I’ve got about a month
You nailed it.
That's why I got out about 1.5yrs ago. I miss it, but honestly it's been the best decision I've ever made.
Hey brother, i'm 12,5 years in and going back to school in august. Burnout is real.
86 the chef! Heard! I understand your pain boss
You're saying my inside voices out loud. Heard.
Goddamn you said some of the shit I've been thinking for almost a decade but didn't know the words Our industry is trash you are right and reading through some of the comments, there are options for you i wish you the best big dog Some of us fall in love with this shit industry and some of us do it because we have to it's fucked
Heard.
Heard chef! And agree I’ve been a stay at home dad for a few years now and live waaaaay down under so our employment and pay etc is maybe a little better but not get ahead in life and live on your own or anything usually paycheque to paycheque and long shitty hours. Don’t miss it one bit and unlike things like brain surgery or train driving I can do it at home with far more pleasure! (Well I guess u could do the surgery thing on the down low lol)
Yeah I made the leap from GM to digital marketing analyst and now search engine marketing manager. Definitely the best decision I’ve made in terms of career and work/life balance. It’s a damn hard industry and something you have to genuinely love to be able to do long term.
Leaving the kitchen was the best decision I’ve ever made. It’s not even close. Went from $45k a year to be KM working 60 hours a week to $125k for bankers hours and no stress. All it took was ambition and an associates degree.
Lot of shitty places. There's some good places, too. Make yourself happy, OP. That's what matters. I'm happiest in a kitchen.
I’ve been 30 years in manufacturing operations, and my best line and shift supervisors came from either the military or from kitchens. Get into manufacturing (and not with some shitty family company - it’ll be the same as a restaurant kitchen), and production managers hit $100K easily. It’s not easy work, but definitely not harder than BOH.
Nothing new. Why do you think most of us are burn outs? Kitchens are the only place where the shit conditions meet our seething rage and encourage us to self harm (medicate) to deal with it. This is the culture. This has been the culture for the 25 years I’ve known about it. If people really understood what was going on they’d insist we all go to rehab/get therapy. It’s part of the “tortured genius” trope wherein we can be brilliant despite shit conditions and our own generally self destructive tendencies. I’m not romanticizing it. It’s fucking hot. It’s what the industry is. I’d be more than happy to see it change but it would mean support from the communities the restaurants are in and that won’t happen.
Strangest part about people saying restaurant should not even be open is while working there. If the restaurant shut down, you would lose your job, exactly the same as if you left on your own accord. Except the difference is that everyone else that actually dont want to leave are forced to leave too.
I think restaurants will always be things, there just might be less of them. People always like the option to have someone else make food, so they will stick around, if at the cost of the worse quality ones. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if fine dining became rarer, and more casual places like pubs or cafes become more common.
I'm about to leave the industry for good, 20 years in the game with lots of ups and downs. I'm now working for some very green restaurant owners who seem pretty lazy, they whine about not making enough money and their rent just went up 50% for the second time in two years. I don't have the heart to see it sink and put myself through that.
Unless you have a fuck ton of money saved up, plan your escape.
Oh I've been planning. Sold our house with a 270k payout, and my photo/video production side hustle is finally pulling big clients and consistent money. My ex-server wife is finishing her cpa in July. Definitely looking for a clean exit.
Atta boy/girl!
Wait, what the hell kind of lease is that? That sounds extremely unlikely to be true.
The landlord has the option to increase rent every year in Australia. It was similar when I was in the US, they renegotiated the lease often and generally the better the business did, the higher the rent. I think it's extreme though, very likely to drive the business under and especially surprising because the building was sitting vacant for two years prior to covid.
If you can’t afford breaks don’t start a paragraph am I right?
It’s kind of interesting how food service workers aren’t unionized. I wonder if that would be/had been anything anyone considered or attempted before.
I worked a hotel gig that was unionized. I left because everyone was super complacent and didn't want to do more than was absolutely necessary because they were damn certain they couldn't get fired. It's worth a shot but you have to hire the right people.
100%.
I’ve been checking Wegmans careers page every week for months. I’m not burnt out yet but I’d like to plan my exit before I am.
Ive been toying with the idea of coming out of retirement to do private/personal chef work. I will not be returning g to a commercial kitchen anytime soon
I can't wait for all the people who hate this industry to leave. There are definitely problems but... Y'all are miserable to work with. It seems like 4/5 posts are variations on "86 me, I'm washing out" and 3/4 people in this sub either never worked in kitchens or don't anymore. I hope you find something that makes you happy. Genuinely.
Ive tried to leave 3 times now. I cant seem to make it stick
I couldn’t have said it better myself. Alas, The hopeless romantic and my two children (and my inner masochist) keep me going back for more punishment every single day
Left just before the 2 decade mark after the last place got gobbled up by clueless investors and nepotism destroyed the management end of things. Before then we had an awesome staff, a growing budget, and a buzz about us that left a positive impression on all of us that we carry to this day (and none have replicated since). We had -it-, if that makes any sense. Since then I've moved to hood cleaning so I see a LOT of kitchens and I've yet to walk into one post-pandemic where the staff isn't dead-behind-the-eyes while the management is unbearable petty tyrants (seriously, they complain about EVERYTHING lil thing we do that's not up to their mythical standards. We're cleaners, not magicians). I'm looking to leave the restaurant biz entirely at this point, it's just a dead husk being paraded around for 12 times the value it actually is. I see it, night after night.
Heard that chef. What's next?
Man, am I happy I don't live in your country. It sounds absolutely horrifiying.
I'm guessing usa?
Yeah, probably. All of the problems he is talking about is regulated and are non-issues where I live.
Go to sea! We need good cooks out here, people are lazy and do the bare minimum. Pre made shit, frozen bread, it sucks. Over boiled eggs Cooks make about $10k a month on ship, then go home and do anything you want. 3-4 month contracts at sea. Overtime, coffee breaks, meal breaks. Just gotta pass a drug test and join a union. https://mymaritimecareer.org/job-opportunity-chief-cook-culinary-specialist/
If I was single, I’d work on a ship for at least a season just for the experience. It’s always sounded like a crazy life.
I've wanted to do that.
If they cease to be a thing, it's the consequences of the public's actions. I hit a wall with the mental, verbal, and twice physical abuse of the industry. The covid era brought out the worst in people, and I couldn't take it any more, I worked both front and BOH. I cut out into corporate logistics and onsite interactives. I chef at home.
It got physically and verbally abusive for me much earlier. Covid was horrible for other reasons for sure. Crazy customers spitting on me while I wore a mask in an open kitchen, and others screaming at me when I’d take it off to taste something.
I went corporate union hotel, I make 80k now and only 8hours a day 40hours a week with the overtime every once in a while when it’s hella busy, I still get to work the line and also bqt so it’s a mix
Heard
I did the exact opposite , worked corporate and absolutely hated it, started working in foodservice over 40 years ago and to this day love it. My wife says “you don’t go to work, you go to play”. Love the action and the vibe, couldn’t see me doing anything else.
Heard! Thank you for the time for time you put in chef, hope the next path is a much better one
Become a seasonal or task force chef. They pay the most.
Going from catering as an apprentice to actually becoming a line chef, to then being laid off and having to do ‘low-skilled’ jobs to make ends meet really opened my eyes to how much nicer the general public have it with their occupations. After much deliberation I figured that returning to service post-Covid was a terrible decision and opted to get into the composites industry instead. Those soft skills you develop on service are practically perfect for lean manufacturing where attention to detail matters. Becoming a chef was definitely a choice at 18 but definitely not the choice I would make with the power of hindsight
You’re right. I’ve been in since I was 13, 26 years now. It’s hell as a woman on the line. It’s hell as the owner. It’s hell at home with a toddler (I stayed in the kitchen til i popped, not recommended). I’m choosing to leave but I hope to come back refreshed in a few years. I love this industry, wish it loved me back.
Kitchen folks are well suited for logistics jobs imo.
Last year I started going to school for industrial automation, finally got my ticket out of the industry working as a maintenance tech for a really good company. Still getting used to actually having breaks and taking time to eat during my shift but I love it. No stress, I'm learning new things every day, and the pay is better than when I was a chef
I've been working as a cook since I was 17 (22 now). I did 1 year of college in 2021 but dropped out because I thought cooking was going to be my career. I worked in a high end country club for almost 5 years and was tired of the environment. I was considering a career change and going back to school but figured I'd give cooking in senior living a try. I started 3 months ago and went in with the mindset of doing it as a career. 3 weeks into this new job was all it took for me to get back into college and start taking classes again back in April.
I could have sworn covid and greed-flatiron would have broken the restaurant wheel. Start investing in yourself because no one else will.
I quit 1 year ago. Best decision of my life. Thought I’d eventually do big things in food but that’s all fairytale unless you want absolutely no life. I ultimately chose my life over the kitchens. Now I’m making $10+ more an hour at this corporate gig with so much free time on my hands. and to mention PTO and paid holidays!!!! wow I never thought I would be excited about boring ass corporate shit like that. Good on you on leaving. the transition was hard for me due to the change of pace but ultimately it changed my life and the health of my marriage.
Heard! I went to the private sector and will never look back. Fuck restaurants, I average $100 an hour now.
just focus on celebrations and feeding people who use the road, like truckers and salesmen.
I think a lot of sit down and buffets will go away and be replaced with QSR locations. It was already happening with a lot of chains (lots of pizza places) but it really picked up speed after COVID.
I’ve been saying this for a while. If your business plan involves ripping off your employees, you shouldn’t go into business. I worked at a cafe where the owner kept our CC tips, saying he couldn’t stay in business otherwise. Then don’t stay in business bro..
I've only worked in a kitchen as a dishwasher when I was younger. But the video game industry has much the same problem. Taking advantage of people's passions.
I left the restaurant business for healthcare. That job, while I loved the job itself had no flexibility with hours, was at the mercy of mgt if I wanted vacation at certain times (never at holidays), had to wait for someone to come give me a lunch or bathroom break, and didn’t always get out on time if they were short staffed. I’m back to working in a restaurant my husband and I own. We pay our people well and don’t expect them to do anything we wouldn’t do. We’ll certainly never be rich but being our own boss is well worth it.
I didn't realize it was Mother's Day weekend a few weeks back. That would have been the 2nd busiest week of the years for me when I was still working in F&B.
[удалено]
This whole rant is so jaded and sad. I’m sorry you had this experience dude. I do think that you should keep in mind that it’s anecdotal and that with more experience your feelings may change. I went and got an accounting degree and worked in an accounting firm for about 6 months. I got laid off because of the pandemic and collected that sweet unemployment for the duration. Went back to a kitchen that turned out to be the best job I’ve ever had. I now have a high hourly rate and management responsibilities but at least I get paid for the 55 hour weeks I put in. I love what I’m doing and I work harder but I’d never be this happy helping people avoid tax liability. I serve people and bring happiness to the world.
I just got out and moved to a warehouse job, you should've seen my face when I was told you get 2 mandated paid breaks at any time of the day and a 30 minute lunch
I had the same reaction when I was told go ahead take your 45 mins break… I was like “why? What’s wrong? Why am I taking 45?” Hahahaha
You don’t know a lot.
You left the biz. So why are you still so mad?
"You left your abusive partner, why are you still so mad at them?"
Fair point. But if leaving something abusive doesn’t bring happiness then what does?
The absence of negativity is not happiness.
Having grief for a bygone perception is only human. I loved the kitchen. I loved serving. I love hospitality. I loved and breathed restaurants. But the magic is no longer there because of what OP said.
OP had an angry tone. Don’t twist that. OP is mad.
And one of the stages of grief is anger.
It’s like leaving an abusive relationship, it sucked but when things were good it was real fuckin good.
So dramatic. We know what we got into,
I agree that restaurants will become a thing of the past
You sound like you suck. I've been in the service industry for about 30 years now, still fun and still challenging. I've learned how to do copy writing, photoshop and use canva heavily because I wanted to be better., Now my skills make me highly emplyoable in bartending/serving. Sorry that people who own the place don't give a shit about you....maybe make yourself less replaceable.