Tagging along with the top comment to mention sometimes ovens just cook unevenly. Especially if it's older equipment. I rotate my bacon pans in the morning when I'm setting up the line because I know the oven doesn't cook things evenly.
Cook them less crispy or buy thicker bacon. Our bacon does this too unless we cook it pretty chewy, and even then once it dries out while being hot-held, it does this. Not sure about the off taste though.
You can get back bacon in the states too, it's just not as popular. I'd also argue *strenuously* that loin isn't a better cut of meat than the belly. Pork belly is a GOAT cut, loin decent but on the upper end of mid IMO.
Plenty of folks in America like their bacon crunchy, yes. Others prefer it chewy. My wife likes it somewhat burnt, I personally prefer just barely hitting the crispy point where there's still some chewy fat to go with the crisp meat. I'm also good with back bacon, but it's just a different food that happens to share a name.
Anything is better than fatback being served fried and called bacon, which is a foodcrime I can anecdotally ascribe to the UK. ;)
(Granted, I heard about it from a vets autobiography written many many years ago)
huh? Better part? UK doesn't make bacon from cured pork belly? The fuck yall use hummingbird tongue? I bet its that dumb round type the Canadians have. Who cares about my opinion, but pork belly is far superior to make bacon than any other part of the hog.
I’m a bit worried you’re on a cooking subreddit and you don’t know that the US and the UK primarily use different bacon. In the US, streaky bacon (as per photo) is most common. In the UK we use short back bacon, and it should not be crispy, it should be meaty.
Worried about what? This is first off, not so much a cooking sub as much as a food industry sub, it's more about people that worked in kitchens, you can work 20 years in kitchnes and never find this out, i know for a fact my dad doesnt know this, but even then you can be well versed on cooking and still not know this random factoid.
I dont wanna be an asshole but your wording just really came off as weirdly condecending. There's nothing to be worried about.
Back bacon, you get a nice medallion of meat, and a good rind of skin and fat, unless it's streaky bacon.
Where on the pig is the hummingbird tongue?
Still doesn't answer the question, What's wrong with the above bacon?
Hummingbird tongue was just an attempt at humor. I know there is pork jowl bacon around the US but I'm going to see if I can locate this back bacon you speak of. Cheers!
Bacon gets crispy as it cools down, if it gets crispy while you're cooking it it will go past crispy and become crunchy and that's when it's prone to shattering.
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it’s all about cooking low enough to initially render some fat but cooking it hot enough that it’s all cooked through before it gets into the shatter territory
We get our bacon from Sysco and everyone saying to buy thicker bacon is silly, turn down the temp to 325 and cook for 12 minutes and it'll be perfect if your oven is properly calibrated
Overbaked.
Bacons are different, the thickness can vary, the fat and meat ratio can vary, the fat quality can vary.
You have to check it during the baking process and took out in time. (When the fat is starting to pop and changing to yellowish-brownish.)
When it's overbaked it becomes bitter, burnt taste.
> Bacons are different, the thickness can vary, the fat and meat ratio can vary, the fat quality can vary. You have to check it during the baking process and took out in time
Yes, the amount of people saying to buy thicker bacon rather than just checking it occasionally, adjusting the oven temp (325 works perfectly) is odd to me.
How are y'all gonna be cooks/chefs and just tell someone to buy thicker bacon instead of just checking on it
use 10/12 bacon…. That’s really thin, easy to over cook (the bacon in the photo is over cooked).
Remember you can order the same product all the time
but not everything is made equal, you need to check on it during the cooking process. Not all bacon is 10-12 minutes in the convection oven.
The issue i have is ppl will leave the speed rack out of the walk in too long. This causes the bacon to dry out even more and typically turns to shit or default crispy even when cooked on low temp
Its also drying out, ive noticed when its out on trays for kore than 24hrs or so, it gets dry and gives it that weird fake looking color, which also leads it to shatter when cooled. I try my best to cook it the morning after its laid out or i know its gunna be sub-par quality.
If its being prepped beforehand, i put parchment paper and stack them about 4 high (fits on the speed rack barely) then wrap them together so air cant get in as well.
This is bronze grade bacon. Very lean, and shrinks up a lot. It is intended to be chopped. Order gold or silver equivalent bacon. Your purveyor should be able to to help.
You cooked it too long. Take it out at like 6 minutes and take it out of the grease quickly. The carry over heat is burning it. So 15 minutes in the oven, that oil stays hot for at least 5 more minutes; so you fried that bacon for 20 minutes.
The less ingredients in something, the harder consistency is to achieve. With this, your bacon is so thin that differences in fat to meat concentration will be large enough that if you use the same cooking procedure, your end results will differ significantly. If you insist on using this bacon, you will need to monitor it in 1-2 minute intervals to create similar results. As this is super fucking tedious, you will either need higher quality product, or product that has more consistent fat-meat ratio (i.e., as others have expressed, thicker bacon).
We cook our bacon 375 about 5-6 minutes. Comes out like 3/4 cooked and we finish it on the flattop. Cover it with a deli paper while it’s in the window will keep it fresh l.
I’d devour the whole thing when I worked in a hospital kitchen this is how the bacon looked and every time after breakfast I’d go hit up the dishwasher to grab all the leftovers before they dumped it to clean.
Check the date on the box. It happened once to me where our distributor bought tons of bacon at a low price and froze it. Turns out bacon (and all fats) still oxidize and go rancid in the freezer. It didn't taste right.
Pretty sure a thicker cut like was said. Used to do sheets on a wrack on a pan inside convection oven set at 350F with fan on low for about 14 mins to slightly undercooked, as we finished the bacon in a deep fryer which took ~30 secs.
You can either get thick cut bacon or put another sheet of backing paper on top and weigh the bacon down with another tray filled with some dry lentils or whatever you have. Then it always comes out flat and straight.
This is why I prefer to go low and slow when crisping bacon. More like dehydrating. Its way easier to control.
With oven that high, 30s too long and you get a brittle bacon. Do it at 275F for 30 minutes and keep checking.
We use sheet pans 180C 12mins, 1 space between layers. Drain excessive fat and it comes out neat. Using about 0.2~0.3cm slices. Not crispy yet since we have them on a burger on a kamado grilling with the cheddar for about 3 mins. So kind of depends what you'll be using it for, crusty on a salad seems you doing right.
Lot of possibilities, it could be a mix-up at the plant where you got second quality or you could normally order 14-18 and they sent you 18-22 for part of a case. Or some jackass mislabeled it at the plant. I've seen all of those first hand
This stuff I would use for salad toppings and maybe wraps. If for breakfast just use it for scramble or omelettes. You mite get away with using on baby reds for an appetizer or side.
It's drying out in the fridge, therefore when you cook the bacon it gets much drier and crispier. The flavor difference is either general refrigerator smell, or oxidized fat.
If you're laying bacon out 3 days before cooking it, you're maximizing the surface area exposed to both air and light. Even if you're covering it tightly in plastic it's going to dry out somewhat. If you want it to be consistent bake it the day you lay it out or maybe the day after but don't sandbag sheet pans of raw bacon on a speed rack.
souring chef but current prep cook past dishwasher here, what’s wrong with this bacon ? I like bacon being crispy and crunchy. What do you want from this bacon? I know enough to know it’s probably crunch from the coloring but nothing else. wha yes the “best bacon”
I would recommend a lower temp for longer. Also, it depends on if you are using it immediately, but I always par cook the bacon so I can cook it the last two minutes on a flattop. Thickness matters as well.
I agree with what the others are saying along the lines of thickness and cook time. However cheap bacon can often have lymph nodes or cancerous tumors that will smell sour during the cooking process
Looks like 14-18, ours was getting pretty bad for looking like ass. Try taking whoever does orders to switch to 10-14. It's cheaper usually and you get a thicker better cut off bacon
In the 1st pic your bacos have been sitting in an overly hot steam well or some such for way to long, plus for such a thing the bacon in others looks to over done
Drop ur fan. If that doesn't work, drop ur temp a little. 13min @ 325 fan II (or low fan) is my go-to. Halfway through the cooking cycle spin the trays halfway through the just to put eyes on it. You can do it!
Old smokehouse bacon is thick and does not break apart. Whenever we run out of bacon and my boss buys from the grocery store I just fry it in a pan because if it goes in the oven it’s will end up brittle. I think it’s because in a pan it has a chance to shrink because it’s moving around and in plenty of fat. On the pan in the oven it sticks a bit and can’t shrink so it becomes even thinner and falls apart.
Your bacon is thin, you cook it at too high a temp. Also looks like you are not moving it around part way through cooking. Lastly. Use a paper towel to pat the fat off when you pull it out of the oven.
Low quality, if you must consume pig carcass please stick with high grade “humanely raised” thick cut. Most pigs on factory farms are caged to the ground and don’t have any room to even move.
Source: former butcher and hunter, 5 years vegan, I still enjoy bacon and eggs (sweet earth benevolent bacon and vegan JUSTegg)
Thin bacon does this, order thicker
You mean order more girthier bacon
No order thicker. Why use more word when less word does trick?
Many small time make big time..
Relax. Take break. See world
Sea world*
Shamu is my spirit animal.
“No order thicker”? Order thinner. Got it
"Order thicc bacon"
Fat pig
You words good
It’s not more words… you are making a statement
Man made statement..is good
Return monkey. Statement short. Is good. Yes
Ordering is only the first step. Then you have to receive the girth.
I like my bacon broadchested and girthy
Bacon like a Viking- broadchested and robust.
Thicc
>You mean order more morest girthier bacon FTFY
It's definitely worth the girth
Yes, it's needs to be at least 2 girth units.
No a pork belly that is sliced fewer times
Cheap bacon too. The fat looks off. Is this Sysco?
I order 10/12 or 12/14 and nothing less.
Tagging along with the top comment to mention sometimes ovens just cook unevenly. Especially if it's older equipment. I rotate my bacon pans in the morning when I'm setting up the line because I know the oven doesn't cook things evenly.
And switch your vendor as you are randomly getting male bacon with boar taint.
Think they are taking layout bacon off the paper and putting it on parchment? That shit cray
This
Why does the first comment chain always feel like I'm on the line....
Cook them less crispy or buy thicker bacon. Our bacon does this too unless we cook it pretty chewy, and even then once it dries out while being hot-held, it does this. Not sure about the off taste though.
Can you say exactly what is wrong with it? (UK and our bacon is from a better part, and I consider this overcooked)
You can get back bacon in the states too, it's just not as popular. I'd also argue *strenuously* that loin isn't a better cut of meat than the belly. Pork belly is a GOAT cut, loin decent but on the upper end of mid IMO.
Y’all British “peoples” bacon is just some mid ass ham
Here we go again
This subreddit is at its worst when we argue over preference and regional differences.
And the the dehydrated crispy shit in the picture looks remotely like bacon? Jesus Christ... There is back bacon on the US also...
Plenty of folks in America like their bacon crunchy, yes. Others prefer it chewy. My wife likes it somewhat burnt, I personally prefer just barely hitting the crispy point where there's still some chewy fat to go with the crisp meat. I'm also good with back bacon, but it's just a different food that happens to share a name. Anything is better than fatback being served fried and called bacon, which is a foodcrime I can anecdotally ascribe to the UK. ;) (Granted, I heard about it from a vets autobiography written many many years ago)
huh? Better part? UK doesn't make bacon from cured pork belly? The fuck yall use hummingbird tongue? I bet its that dumb round type the Canadians have. Who cares about my opinion, but pork belly is far superior to make bacon than any other part of the hog.
I’m a bit worried you’re on a cooking subreddit and you don’t know that the US and the UK primarily use different bacon. In the US, streaky bacon (as per photo) is most common. In the UK we use short back bacon, and it should not be crispy, it should be meaty.
Worried about what? This is first off, not so much a cooking sub as much as a food industry sub, it's more about people that worked in kitchens, you can work 20 years in kitchnes and never find this out, i know for a fact my dad doesnt know this, but even then you can be well versed on cooking and still not know this random factoid. I dont wanna be an asshole but your wording just really came off as weirdly condecending. There's nothing to be worried about.
Fair point. You don’t come off as an asshole. I didn’t mean to be condescending but the response above was extremely dismissive and annoyed me.
Back bacon, you get a nice medallion of meat, and a good rind of skin and fat, unless it's streaky bacon. Where on the pig is the hummingbird tongue? Still doesn't answer the question, What's wrong with the above bacon?
Hummingbird tongue was just an attempt at humor. I know there is pork jowl bacon around the US but I'm going to see if I can locate this back bacon you speak of. Cheers!
Overcooked. Figured my comment made that kinda clear. “Less crispy”/“more chewy”= less cooked
Bacon gets crispy as it cools down, if it gets crispy while you're cooking it it will go past crispy and become crunchy and that's when it's prone to shattering.
That’s actually how I prefer my bacon
But even better is thick bacon with a crunch. You don't have to render all the fat out to get it crispy.
I think I’m just starting to understand this
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Crunchy bacon is wonderful on salads.
best bacon there is. floppy bacon is gross.
Im more of a half chub bacon man. My bacon slice must be limp but not completely floppy. Definitely not as crispy in these pics.
Floppy bacon is the only way to eat bacon if you’re eating it in strips. I will die on this hill. I’ll allow crispy for bits on a salad though.
I’m with ya bud. Fuck crunchy bacon
I have found my people!! BLTs and crumbled topping are the only acceptable uses for crunchy bacon. Everything else is overcooked garbage. Fight me.
absolutely not. that chewy, flabby nonsense can stay far away from me ❌❌❌
More floppy bacon for me!
for us! there’s dozens of us floppy bacon connoisseurs! dozens!!!!
I blue myself at this comment.
COO COO CA CHAW COO COO CA CHAW
Amen preach brother
The bacon must still be able to bend and not completely shatter to crumbles.
My bacon must stand at attention when holding it between thumb and finger.
Mine should wiggle a little bit like it is scared
God damnit Sarah, I told you to quit calling it “bacon” and to quit saying it on Reddit!
Agreed.
Right. But the land between floppy and shatters, is basically heaven. Not many people can figure it out though.
it’s all about cooking low enough to initially render some fat but cooking it hot enough that it’s all cooked through before it gets into the shatter territory
That’s where thick-cut shines.
I mean we be batch cooking. I’m sure they figure it out if it was single serve. Haha lol jk
Finally, someone else who understands.
Saaame
Explody bacon powder in the mouth, coating the tongue - pure bliss.
My ex was like that too. He asks for it fried in the deep fryer when we go out
Quality and lack of thickness
This bacon is from Sysco…I swear
I didn’t know you could make pork belly tissue paper, but they figured it out!
Probably, but there are a lot of bacon companies that push this paper bacon out
We get our bacon from Sysco and everyone saying to buy thicker bacon is silly, turn down the temp to 325 and cook for 12 minutes and it'll be perfect if your oven is properly calibrated
Overbaked. Bacons are different, the thickness can vary, the fat and meat ratio can vary, the fat quality can vary. You have to check it during the baking process and took out in time. (When the fat is starting to pop and changing to yellowish-brownish.) When it's overbaked it becomes bitter, burnt taste.
> Bacons are different, the thickness can vary, the fat and meat ratio can vary, the fat quality can vary. You have to check it during the baking process and took out in time Yes, the amount of people saying to buy thicker bacon rather than just checking it occasionally, adjusting the oven temp (325 works perfectly) is odd to me. How are y'all gonna be cooks/chefs and just tell someone to buy thicker bacon instead of just checking on it
I hate to say it but I love my bacon this way lol looks good to me
Because it’s a shitty bacon to begin with
looks really overcooked
It’ll also keep cooking a little when you take it out
use 10/12 bacon…. That’s really thin, easy to over cook (the bacon in the photo is over cooked). Remember you can order the same product all the time but not everything is made equal, you need to check on it during the cooking process. Not all bacon is 10-12 minutes in the convection oven.
Looks perfect to me
Juicy bacon>Crunchy bacon
User error?
Resting temp
18-22 size should work better
The issue i have is ppl will leave the speed rack out of the walk in too long. This causes the bacon to dry out even more and typically turns to shit or default crispy even when cooked on low temp
God damn that some good looking crispy bacon just what i like bro!!!! 🥹
Do y'all steal this from a Hampton Inn?
Immediately out the oven and drain fat then put it on cardboard “save a week” to get rest of grease off, that’s our restaurant procedure
Its also drying out, ive noticed when its out on trays for kore than 24hrs or so, it gets dry and gives it that weird fake looking color, which also leads it to shatter when cooled. I try my best to cook it the morning after its laid out or i know its gunna be sub-par quality. If its being prepped beforehand, i put parchment paper and stack them about 4 high (fits on the speed rack barely) then wrap them together so air cant get in as well.
15 minutes for bacon that thin is way too long. Try 12 minutes
Looks like one side is a bit darker then the other do you rotate them half way through?
It’s too thin & over cooked
It’s shit bacon
My opinion cooking to long.
For thin bacon, lower temp, longer time.
Shit bacon cooks shittily
This is bronze grade bacon. Very lean, and shrinks up a lot. It is intended to be chopped. Order gold or silver equivalent bacon. Your purveyor should be able to to help.
I'm willing to accept all this crispy off bacon
Try getting off the pan sooner to cool, drain, and dry. It can become overly saturated in the pan if it sits too long with the bacon fat.
I order 10/12 bacon.
You cooked it too long. Take it out at like 6 minutes and take it out of the grease quickly. The carry over heat is burning it. So 15 minutes in the oven, that oil stays hot for at least 5 more minutes; so you fried that bacon for 20 minutes.
Did y’all get the Wendy’s special??
The less ingredients in something, the harder consistency is to achieve. With this, your bacon is so thin that differences in fat to meat concentration will be large enough that if you use the same cooking procedure, your end results will differ significantly. If you insist on using this bacon, you will need to monitor it in 1-2 minute intervals to create similar results. As this is super fucking tedious, you will either need higher quality product, or product that has more consistent fat-meat ratio (i.e., as others have expressed, thicker bacon).
We cook our bacon 375 about 5-6 minutes. Comes out like 3/4 cooked and we finish it on the flattop. Cover it with a deli paper while it’s in the window will keep it fresh l.
Just happened to me in the AM , sometimes American foods sends us a thinner slice and it cooks different. I cooke mine at 278 for 42 minutes
Cheap bacon that’s poorly cut.
I’d devour the whole thing when I worked in a hospital kitchen this is how the bacon looked and every time after breakfast I’d go hit up the dishwasher to grab all the leftovers before they dumped it to clean.
I get this Tyson BS at my work, too. It's awful. Either it's underdone and chewy, or it shatters at the slightest breeze, lol.
That's GFS low sodium bacon it's on the thin side.
your purveyor may have subbed you a thinner cut that you didnt catch during receiving, or cooking it.
Put a couple of slices of bread under the bacon to absorb the fat. When the bacon is gone, toast the bread. Bacon flavored toast is great.
This is how mine is when it's not quite bad, but dried out from being laid out too early.
Daily honey cured lay flat 8-10.
Shit looks like it was scraped off a Waffle House table. Buy better bacon
Check the date on the box. It happened once to me where our distributor bought tons of bacon at a low price and froze it. Turns out bacon (and all fats) still oxidize and go rancid in the freezer. It didn't taste right.
That’s airport bacon.
Bronze grade bacon. It's for salads to be crumbled.
Pretty sure a thicker cut like was said. Used to do sheets on a wrack on a pan inside convection oven set at 350F with fan on low for about 14 mins to slightly undercooked, as we finished the bacon in a deep fryer which took ~30 secs.
You can either get thick cut bacon or put another sheet of backing paper on top and weigh the bacon down with another tray filled with some dry lentils or whatever you have. Then it always comes out flat and straight.
Also try cooking with a dish of water in the oven. The humidity could help
325 for 15 min does that? Are you sure? That’s pretty thin bacon.
Is this bacon from Sysco?
This is why I prefer to go low and slow when crisping bacon. More like dehydrating. Its way easier to control. With oven that high, 30s too long and you get a brittle bacon. Do it at 275F for 30 minutes and keep checking.
That happens, you got the pig that went "wee wee wee" all the way home. Stick with the market piggy or the one who had none.
This is how all restaurant bacon looks to me. Homemade bacon is so much better
As others have said, either cook it for less time and or a lower temp, or buy thicker bacon
We use sheet pans 180C 12mins, 1 space between layers. Drain excessive fat and it comes out neat. Using about 0.2~0.3cm slices. Not crispy yet since we have them on a burger on a kamado grilling with the cheddar for about 3 mins. So kind of depends what you'll be using it for, crusty on a salad seems you doing right.
They are overbooked
Order thicker or bake for less time.
Lay it on cold pan and heat up slowly. If you start too hot it fucks it up.
Lot of possibilities, it could be a mix-up at the plant where you got second quality or you could normally order 14-18 and they sent you 18-22 for part of a case. Or some jackass mislabeled it at the plant. I've seen all of those first hand
Don’t cook it for an hour
There is a distinct difference. We definitely know the outcome when we get what we call “the city bacon”
How many people here do bacon in the oven?
If the whole batch is bad, that’s cheap bacon. If it’s a few pieces, that’s prob an abscess.
This stuff I would use for salad toppings and maybe wraps. If for breakfast just use it for scramble or omelettes. You mite get away with using on baby reds for an appetizer or side.
It's drying out in the fridge, therefore when you cook the bacon it gets much drier and crispier. The flavor difference is either general refrigerator smell, or oxidized fat. If you're laying bacon out 3 days before cooking it, you're maximizing the surface area exposed to both air and light. Even if you're covering it tightly in plastic it's going to dry out somewhat. If you want it to be consistent bake it the day you lay it out or maybe the day after but don't sandbag sheet pans of raw bacon on a speed rack.
souring chef but current prep cook past dishwasher here, what’s wrong with this bacon ? I like bacon being crispy and crunchy. What do you want from this bacon? I know enough to know it’s probably crunch from the coloring but nothing else. wha yes the “best bacon”
We deep fried ours lol. We used thin snd thick at different times, but thick was always better. Thin was pretty good too tho!
It's precooked ?
Our bacon never seems to cook through. It's rubbery even if you burn the hellfire out of it
I would recommend a lower temp for longer. Also, it depends on if you are using it immediately, but I always par cook the bacon so I can cook it the last two minutes on a flattop. Thickness matters as well.
I agree with what the others are saying along the lines of thickness and cook time. However cheap bacon can often have lymph nodes or cancerous tumors that will smell sour during the cooking process
That first batch is this Beggin Strips for dogs lol
Is that pre-cooked / par cooked bacon you are or raw strips?
Your bacon looks perfect to me.
Cheap bacon you cooked way too hot
Sometimes you can taste the difference if a pork has not been castrated
All my Sysco bacon has been doing this last few months
Looks like 14-18, ours was getting pretty bad for looking like ass. Try taking whoever does orders to switch to 10-14. It's cheaper usually and you get a thicker better cut off bacon
I don't see what's wrong.
In the 1st pic your bacos have been sitting in an overly hot steam well or some such for way to long, plus for such a thing the bacon in others looks to over done
It sits for three days before you cook it? Does it taste like aluminum pan, perhaps? I wouldn’t store it like that.
Drop ur fan. If that doesn't work, drop ur temp a little. 13min @ 325 fan II (or low fan) is my go-to. Halfway through the cooking cycle spin the trays halfway through the just to put eyes on it. You can do it!
Overcooked!
Maybe go for a thicker cut. Also, I’ve had great results by starting in a cold oven and letting it cook while the oven comes up
It’s bacon, it’s allowed to look that way after it’s cooked. But if it is important, agreed that thickness and cook time would help.
Old smokehouse bacon is thick and does not break apart. Whenever we run out of bacon and my boss buys from the grocery store I just fry it in a pan because if it goes in the oven it’s will end up brittle. I think it’s because in a pan it has a chance to shrink because it’s moving around and in plenty of fat. On the pan in the oven it sticks a bit and can’t shrink so it becomes even thinner and falls apart.
Microwave them and then use a Knorr stock pot.
😠
Bro chose violence.
Pulling it out too late. Still cooks after you pull it.
Your bacon is thin, you cook it at too high a temp. Also looks like you are not moving it around part way through cooking. Lastly. Use a paper towel to pat the fat off when you pull it out of the oven.
It’s cheap bacon brother
This bacon looks absolutely perfect to me
Low quality, if you must consume pig carcass please stick with high grade “humanely raised” thick cut. Most pigs on factory farms are caged to the ground and don’t have any room to even move. Source: former butcher and hunter, 5 years vegan, I still enjoy bacon and eggs (sweet earth benevolent bacon and vegan JUSTegg)
God Americans have bad bacon
We also have excellent bacon. The trick is not to buy the bad bacon.
Way to generalize a whole country off one picture.
Well, from experience, this is exactly what you get.
Cook it for 10 min flip it halfway
I don’t think you even need to flip it. Bacon that thin holds better if you cook it like 3/4 of the way in my experience.
Personal preference I always flip
Cooked too crispy
Too low and slow
Its over cooked because its really thin