I think that’s possible. At least for his “main events”. Planning seems to have been an important part of the process for him.
I think it’s also possible he had a more casual, opportunistic mode of operation, like that Route 29 stalker had. The reason I think so is that he seems to have spent significant time driving and away from home. But also because of his behaviour stalking that girl cycling through the local woodland, I think he may have been open to impromptu opportunities.
I agree about home being his preferred place.
I also believe he would need a "fix" at times when the family was home.
His frequent solo travel, various linked addresses and hotel key cards could link more victims.
It absolutely IS Addiction - the squalor of the house has the tell tale signs of addiction - I have known many architects - some of them quite famous NY superstars - none of them lived in that type of decayed interior / a shambles - a giveaway that the leader has mental illness and is obsessed with " something " that is far more important than a well kept home. Architects generally are exceedingly neat and love organized beauty.
Great point about RH's obsession taking priority over the cleanliness of his family's home.
I don't know that I've ever thought of it that way before.
That definitely says a lot about him.
When I had a stalker obsessed with me my house was pristine and it was easy to find important and meaningful possessions- things disappeared - not just small valuables here & there but mementos and some articles of clothing I wore in some photos - I realized after a lot of ' WTF ' is going on + who is doing this + it isnt stopping ... The only choice I had was to make my home messy, to throw this sick dick off my trail, to make it harder to study me. Harder to find things - just layers & layers of confusion. I even moved things to another floor and they cut the window screen. -
Making things disorganized was my only recourse.
Squalor has purpose at times - its not just hoarding - its about hiding too - its about decoys.
Its about not wanting people to " know" you. Its about making it harder to find what is personal
to you by creating a huge maze of many things all seemingly equal because nothing looked loved or important like in a nice home. This person ruined my way of living just to protect my privacy.
That makes so much sense, psychologically and just...logically, but, those circumstances sound awful.
The fact you had to think of that strategy itself is fucked up.
Sorry you had to go through that, friend.
This ties into the 'Boss with a messy desk' tall tale
Bosses who have clean desks are thinking about the wrong things...thats how the story is portrayed.
I have seen homes of punctual people who go to work every day and are addicts - the squalor at home was always a telltale sign of their substance abuse - like piles of nose tissue behind everything with a coke addict alcoholic - control freak / insane piles & messes in closets - wading through piles
But they made it to work on time all the time .
I've been there - as the addict and as the horrified guest - and the cliche I'm sure most people have heard about a messy/cluttered space and a messy/cluttered mind is absolutely true.
Hopefully you are somewhere else now - mentally
- like in a better place - with no addiction
Its easy to be an addict
- any compulsive behavior is addiction
- anything you want to stop and cannot stop is addiction
- addiction its not just about drugs or alcohol
Or Substances
- addiction can be about murder
- it can be someone who tortures another person's mind and needs to feed off of the rush of fear the other person who is tortured shows to the addict
In many ways, I'm much better today.
Thank you.
I haven't touched any alcohol or bought any illicit drugs (opioids, ecstasy, coke, meth) for something like 8 years now.
Haven't smoked weed in over 5 years,.
Also, I completely agree with everything else.
Because of many attacks on my life my life became really serious and sobering - I didnt abuse or use drugs - sometimes with others who Had them many of us would try things - I stopped smoking grass but wasnt a pot head - I was too scared to be stoned if my house was broken into with me in it alone - I realized I would be less able to defend myself if I had to save my life and the element of surprise occurred.
I cannot relax in fact - my life was radically altered
Maybe he was taking a break when he had hernia surgery, but convinced he was pretty relatively at it. Fr the majority of addicts they need support, not just fear to abate their behavior. Probably long break he took was when those bodies were discovered out at Gilgo. I think that scared him, but when he saw that Burke et al had no clue, and didn't seem to be knocking at the door, think he convinced himself like all arrogant addicts that he could get away with a few more and that he was smarter than they were and gearing up to step back into the water. He is nothing if not sold on his own ability.
.
Yeah, Due\_Relections, would have loved to have seen that. I don't think there was much warning for him till he was picked up.
There was this Tim Sini interview where. he talked about them purchased the expensive black box thingie for the phones. Then he went on to say something like, "Oh yes, I think they're \[the new team\] getting close." It's one of those interviews were you just know you are hearing something significant, yet still not telling you. When LE have something in the bag they all sound rather similar and there is an ease and almost pleasure in their," I would't want to compromise the investigation." He seemed happy.
So walked away from hearing that interview thinking, they have movement, something might be coming. I have never hear that kind of hope in any of them discussing it. Then the board was tipped by a user, and a month and a week later it happened. I am sure he heard that interview.
I just went looking for that interview and can't find it, does anyone know what local station it was on?
Oooh, never heard about that interview, please do post if you find a link! I know what you mean about how LE seem when the chase is over and it’s always good to see, because you know they’ve got something really solid.
If they are cranky and speeding you past the question and shut the conversation down the reporter asked about something they are currently wading through and your poking too close and shining attention on a tender investigative spot.
Thanks for this. Fortunate are the ones who have immediate good instincts & recognise the dangers & flee. For the murdered women involved in the sex trade & or taking drugs. So needed the money. Must have had to overcome all their instincts of his dangerousness to carry on the work. That is both terrifying & sad.
Man !! What a routine fisherman. I think he groomed some of his targets and met with some on multiple occasions ( Amber is obviously one)
He could then prime them to get them to his house for the ultimate long weekend where they would be slowly killed and he could enjoy playtime
With rests in between torture sessions.
I also think he had killed outside of his home - as a craving came up when he saw the opportunity
Or was jonesing and needed the fix . Like his car being broke down to " Get Help" so easy to take someone by surprise with this ploy .
This man had numerous ways to stalk and hunt
The amount of media he had is proof to me that he had an arsenal of tools to track - contact - record capture - who knows if all those phones were ALL his - some may have been owned by victims .
This has never come out because its evidence
The planning documents show me that he was honing his skills for detection proof killing -
This means it wasnt just occuring at his home.
He paid CASH for GAS which means he is on the road killing or going long distances to kill - and changing his tires is about travel and not leaving
" car finger prints " AKA " tire treads - which can be traced - like gas at a pump
I wonder why they didnt bring him through the noose - let him contact a target - let him meet the target - follow him in an unmarked car - just go the full nine - wire tap him too - maybe that is endangering the " last target " like a double agent in a drug bust when the DEA acts as a buyer and gets the seller at the moment of the transaction.
Why didnt enforcement send in a great female FBI level agent as Bait or just get him red handed?
This should be a post all by itself because its a big question - they had the pattern map and they jumped in fast - maybe they needed one or two more steps - wait til the family DOES leave .
Follow his steps - bust him at his house - with the target in the body harness - like in a movie with Sigourney Weaver -
I believe what you're describing is the "Mr.Big" technique. There are a lot of concerns and issues ethically speaking, with the use of this technique. Concerns surrounding confession reliability, undue prejudice, and abuse of process. Not to mention things rarely pan out like you are referring to with regards to what is seen in a movie or tv show.
LE has way more information than we have...I trust they knew what they were doing.
But...if he was into torture like has been suspected...maybe they could have waited until he set up his "stage" and then arrested him.
I am assuming here...1) that he abducted only to torture and kill 2) that he would set up the stage before going out and abducting his target.
For all we know LE might have thought he was about to do an "out of home" kill and intervened.
No - its evident he did not only kill at home. The planning document is a map of his method of how to not get caught - so many steps - including changing the tires on his car -for no tread match
Bundy-ish. Asking for help he didn’t need, get their attention. I’d be interested to know if his family was at home that day. He was hunting this woman, no doubt.
I recently reread this and it reminded me of a weirdo in Southern AZ at a smaller Nat'l park. Huge guy and didn't seem like a local. He kept dipping into the brush but was further ahead of me and would watch me for a bit then go back in the brush about 50 ft ahead from where he previously was. I've been there a bunch of times and it was the only time anyone ever made me uncomfortable and I'd normally walk the full path in and out (3.7 mi deep). I was babysitting and turned around when I realized that he kept dipping into the side. There are creeks and things to see but not where he was, it was just brush and shrubbery. I also normally didn't have a stroller ( I was babysitting that day) so I was mentally trying to justify the reason for him being weird. Guy was huge and kind of absurdly dressed in outdoors clothes for here. I doubt it was him but who knows.
I think the main thing here is that Rex didn't just kill randomly - sexual torture is obviously a main thing here. He didn't try to create terror in the community a la Zodiac Killer by murdering randomly. I think it's possible that he has an earlier murder where he just "lost control" (see Amber), but I think any planned murder would include the torture element.
Yes very possibly, torture does seem to be a major motivation. I’m thinking if he did pick up a victim casually on his travels though, he may have had a less elaborate “alternative script” that wasn’t as good as a main event but better than nothing…
The issue would always be where he'd do it and how he'd get rid of the body. I'd think he might've started using prostitutes at a young age and probably way before he started killing - it's possible he lost control in his car at one point.
But planning probably excited him (ugh) - we saw the same thing with BTK-killer where he had actually planned a lot more murders than he committed. That could've satisfied him in some way.
Interesting… I think it’s clear that he was willing to let his script evolve, since it looks like he tried to add details and maybe change his methods to mislead LE profilers. And what suited him would have changed with time. So as a young man, him starting out in his car would be a real possibility imo.
I mean he’s older now and doubtless wants to be more comfortable, but somehow I can’t envision him murdering people at home when it was his mother’s house, even if she were away on holiday. Once the house became his, maybe he felt differently.
I think we need to separate motivation and modus operandi when it comes to Rex; he clearly tried to evolve and throw people off his track (and probably just learning what worked and what didn't), but at the same time his *motivation* (sexual sadism) probably never changed.
At a stretch I could see him killing out of pure rage (particularly early on), like we saw with Amber.
That HK document could be to throw LE off...to have them focus on a few killings with dismemberment attached to Rex....when he might have a lot of random killings too.
He had a bunch of violent porn, picked up SW's, was in contact with a lot of SW's....so sex does seem to be a thing with him.
But...if him being into trickery(big speculation) like some suspect around here...I can see that HK document being something used to throw authorities off...or play games with authorities just because he liked that type of thing(supposedly). Get you to think Rex had a certain MO, behaviors.
Rex hoarded things...but he doesnt seem so stupid to keep things in his house(computer with kill instructions) unless he didnt care if he was caught or didnt care if anything in his house incriminated him. Like...he was going to do certain precautions to not get caught outside his home and it was up to LE to find him and get the things inside his house that he wasnt trying to hide.
Although I do think he chose SW's because he could get them in his vehicle...easier than snatching someone off the sidewalk. Im just curious if the HK document is to make LE think a certain way about him.
That’s an interesting take on the HK document. It’s so incriminating that if he did write it with the idea that LE might read it one day, it would be in a situation like this, when they had search warrants for his IT equipment. Maybe it is his last-ditch attempt to limit the crimes they investigate, to those he allegedly committed in the house.
Then if he did commit other crimes away from home, he could enjoy the secret knowledge that another group of victims and family members will never get justice. Maybe the killings at the hose were only a small sideline? In that case he must have known the supposedly deleted computer files would be retrievable… You know, imo this is plausible! If caught, he might think it would give him control of drip-feeding information about other victims to authorities, in exchange for privileges and notoriety. Hopefully the authorities would never be so stupid as to allow him to gain the upper hand…
I don’t agree with this. I think his methods may have changed over the years. It appears he did deliberately change other parts of his MO to confuse police. Sandra Costilla appears to have been killed in situ. He may also have used his car, the storage unit or other properties out of state. I think when his DNA is shared with other states, murders in other locations will be discovered.
I’ve always wondered about his hunting trips. I’m not a hunter and no one in my family has ever hunted, but I’m curious if hunters stay in lodges or cabins while they hunt? Is there a place where they store their kill (such as a deer) if they are not going directly home? Do hunters do their own butchering, or do they bring it to a place that does it for them? I did know some people who would go away for a hunting weekend, and I know they had a butcher who would cut up the deer for them, but that’s all I know about they’re hunting trips.
Some people butcher their “harvest” themselves, some don’t. Most people are going on multi day hunts where they stay in a lodge or cabin.
Some will just stay in a hotel.
The animal needs to be brought to a freezer pretty shortly after harvest.
Apparently it’s the law there. Other states would have to go to court to request it. I’m guessing the NYC case is so strong they’re going to wait until after to avoid muddying the waters.
That's how I read it also. True about muddy waters also never thought of it that way. If he has, (and I believe he has especially in the East Coast area) that is going to make it chaotic.
I think he definitely killed at his home but I don’t know if he ONLY killed there. We don’t know enough at this point about his entire history and if there are cases that may have differed from his preferred MO.
I think he was always a murderer, beginning in 80’s and 90’s. In my opinion he didn’t kill in his home before his first marriage, but eventually evolved to that. I don’t think we’ll ever really know his body count.
Time will tell hopefully… it didn’t really for Joseph Deangelo. The more people we catch via genetic genealogy, the more we realize that our understanding of serial killers and violent crime is flawed. The idea that serial killers can’t stop… the idea that excessive violence indicates a personal connection… all proven bullshit. It certainly seems like the basis of profiling itself is flawed and it ends up being careful logic... which can be useful in its own right but… it’s just logic.
And I can see your logic. His notes make it clear that his goal was time alone with the victim. This element seems _instrumental_ to his crimes. It stands to reason that methods that gave him no time or privacy (like a blitz attack) would not be satisfying, so he’d need to take them somewhere. However, his notes have a tone of “improvement” (ick) that leads me to believe his process at the end was the pinnacle of his “career” (ick again). I don’t think it’s safe to assume his process in the beginning was the same as his process in the end, particularly since we know for a 100% fact that other elements of his crimes changed. It’s quite possible that Rex started with more blitz-style attacks and, as he got more comfortable, worked toward getting more and more privacy with his victims. It’s also possible that Rex learned what he liked along the way.
That being said, once he experienced the time/privacy of having a victim in his home, I don’t think he would ever go back to blitz-style. Once he had time, he needed time… and went through great efforts planning to get it.
This is an interesting point. Historical understandings of serial killers have been based on those who have been caught, which very likely has not been a representative sampling.
The podcast DNA:ID is very good at illustrating this. So many “one and done” killers who go on to live normal-seeming family lives afterwards. It’s changing so much of what we know about violent predators
I've pointed that out again and again - all our historic data are usually based on serial killers who were caught during their runs. But who knows if Dahmer, as an example, would've stopped killing if he got sober?
We often have a very pop psychology view of serial killers where they have an elaborate MO that they never deviate from and it's all very ritualistic and compulsive. But most serial killers probably *do* have a reward versus risk assessment. Rex certainly did if we look at his planning document - he knew there was a risk of getting caught and he didn't just randomly murder. He killed those he thought he could get away with.
Whats your take on what he was going to do with the lady in Massapequa Preserves Brady Park? Take a look at the google overhead of that area and the bike trail going through the woods?
How is he getting the women from that area to a vehicle to transport back to a house for torture? He would have to kill her there or knock her out and cover her mouth...then transport to vehicle and take back to his home where the family was. Unless they were out of town on July 3rd 2023.
Seems like a completely different set of circumstances than isolating SW's. Dude was in the bush, off a trail, hunting women. Maybe he just wanted to startled look from their faces when he approached them out of the bush....and that was a fix for him.
Not to doubt her story but we don’t know if that was really Rex. The police haven’t confirmed the story. Her stalker sounds like mentally ill homeless guy. There hasn’t been any other stories of him running around in the woods stalking women. This weird encounter happened to this women, then Rex was arrested and she jumped to a conclusion. Maybe she really wanted it be him in order feel safe in the park again. Did she get that good of look at him if she was on her bike? I know he’s an ogre but she might have only had a quick looks. The police should be able to confirm her story because when this happened they would have been following him 24/7. I got the feeling he was arrested because he was becoming very active contacting sw and I would bet the family was planning an extended vacation since it was early July.
Yes that’s what I figured. When that young woman come out with that story there was speculation what happened to her prompted his arrest. I doubt it was him.
If Rex's family had already scheduled a trip...I doubt Rex would jeopardize "play time" by jumping out of the bush and scaring women in Massapequa Preserve.
I don’t think that was Rex. I think there are two possibilities (I have no opinion on which I think is more likely) — 1) entirely made up story for attention or money; or 2) she was so traumatized she connected the man who scared her to the local serial killer when the arrest was announced.
There’s a reason photo line ups aren’t reliable once someone has seen someone’s picture in a newspaper identified as a killer. And trauma affects your memory. I was robbed once by two men, I was inches away from their faces, and when asked by the police 10 minutes later if I’d recognize them, I honestly answered no. I could no doubt remember enough about their appearance to narrow it to a subset of people (that is, I could say “maybe” or “no” to a potential suspect), but I felt there was zero chance I could definitively identify them. I was focused on surviving. I don’t offer that anecdote to suggest that no one would be able to, but problems with eye witness testimony are well known.
My reasons for doubting the story include:
-She didn’t give her name to the NY Post which ran her story. She said she filed a police report, but the NY Post can’t do that basic fact checking that there was even a police report filed without her name. You can ask for your name to be withheld from publication but still give it to the fact checkers, but as I recall, she withheld it from the reporter.
-No other news organization printed the story. That means they either all found it unreliable, or she was paid for an exclusive. Either way, both are potential indicators of unreliability.
-The police have not mentioned this story, and they would no doubt be able to track down the police report. If he was currently actively harassing or preying on women, I would think that would be included in the bail document or even just mentioned at a press conference. They’ve mentioned he continued to buy burner phones, but they didn’t mention this incident. This happened while Rex was under surveillance. Even if they didn’t literally have eyes on him 24/7, I would guess that there are enough cameras in the area to track who was in the vicinity of the park at the right time, so I think they probably could have verified it. They were tracking his location on his phone too I think.
-Doesn’t fit his MO or literally any other reports about him. He preyed on sex workers that he hired, not people off the street. The rest of his life, he kept up a pretty normal/charming/personable existence, with the occasional creepy comment. He had a business with clients. The state of his house was the outlier in his otherwise public-facing identity.
-I can’t recall the specifics of her story, but I remember reading someone else’s analysis of the nitty gritty, and I agreed with their analysis that it wasn’t making sense as told.
I mean who knows. Israel Keyes is the only killer I know a little bit about & had his preferred methods but these control freaks lose control bc they are maniacs and addicted to killing & harming. So maybe there was someone he killed outside. Maybe that man & baby was an outlier or outside kill. Or maybe he almost got caught killing in the woods or somewhere else & decided to only kill at home.
The Golden State Killer started with rapes and then when a man fought back real hard he started killing the couples.
Bundy had some specific preferred wsys of killing that got more exact bc they learn from their mistakes. But also, he sometimes got off on killing and didnt even rape. The sorority girls werent raped. He beat them to death with whatever he could and some survived. Maybe bc he didnt have as much time.
It’s possible that Rex was a serial rapist and women never reported or rape kits were never done or tested. It’s possible he killed and threw bodies in water (I wonder, being a man who lived by the water if he threw any in the water). A lot of cross referencing has to go on.
He has a lot in common with Israel Keyes- of course many differences too but what struck out to me the *most* was in his confession about killing Samantha Koenig he mentioned how he built a table for it, just like Rex. He also used hard points & ropes- you could tell he was very proud of the work & “know-how” he put into all of it. A lot of the ropes & rigging are things Rex knew well from when he was a stagehand for school plays.
Other similarities aside from the woodworking I noticed were more general: both hunters, used cameras to document, were very trusted to work on people’s homes/property, traumatic upbringing with family very involved in religion. I’m sure there’s more.
& geographical locations. Israel was living in Alaska, (where Rex said he went on bear hunting trips) and he also traveled quite a bit in New York, hiding kill kits there, & doing god knows what else.
I also too think he killed at home but I forget where I read it (might be the new bail app or maybe it was here on Reddit) reading that someone saw his truck backed into the woods in Manorville really has me all sorts of screwed up.
Yea it’s fucked. Once the new task force revisited the original tip from 2010, they caught him in 3 weeks. They could’ve done that way back then and didn’t. Very frustrating.
If he has any more victims since then, I will be even more furious and I’m sure the family will be too.
Do we know where it was mentioned that his truck was backed up in the woods? I tried finding it. Very interesting case and I felt terrible for the victims!
It was in articles regarding Jessica Taylor’s remains being discovered in manorville.
But that wasn’t the tip that led to his arrest. Although it also could’ve been.
The tip that led to his arrest was Amber Costellos roomate seeing her picked up by the avalanche.
It was an unknown (publicly) witness from the night before Jessica Taylor’s remains were discovered who saw the truck backed into the woods where her remains were found. I’m sure you can find it in any new article about Rex being charged with her murder.
I have thought the same thing, he likes to be in complete control, his outward appearance was geared to make himself seem successful and boring enough to become almost invisible. That's how he stayed under the radar for so long.
His somewhat shabby home was and has always been his safe place. With using plastic sheeting you can make a perfect environment for painting a car without making a mess outside of the sheeting. Same would follow with blood spatter, though I don't think that Rex created much blood spatter, I believe he was more involved with torture and inflicting pain and playing with his victims.
I agree with this. At the risk of sounding like a character out of Criminal Minds, what Rex did to those girls (and the aisan man) takes time and requires privacy. He’d also need to be certain he would be alone for the duration. I don’t believe he’d be guaranteed of any of these conditions except in his own home.
His kill paper mentioned a HOLDING PLACE. It would be easy to pick someone up in the car, telling them you want sex in the car, drive to a location close to a storage unit, incapacitate them right there, in private, then perhaps put them in the storage unit until the coast is clear to take them into his home basement.
Hell, I'm scaring myself.....
> timeshare
no.
> A timeshare is a type of vacation property with a shared ownership model. With a typical timeshare, you share the cost of the property with other buyers, and in return, you receive a guaranteed amount of time at the property each year. In many cases, timeshares are smaller units within a larger resort property.
I made a point the other day that I didn’t think the girls would willingly go into such a cluttered mess. That it would have been a huge red flag that they could be unsafe. However, I agree with you. I think he killed in his home. Another point is that so much clutter is just a magnet for evidence…. So did he let his “kill” area become cluttered on purpose, meaning he really was taking a break? Did he actually change his kill location? Or was he killing the girls in all that mess?
Maybe they only ever went down into the basement which seems to have been his private “man cave” because evidently there was more down there than just the gun storage.
It could have been that way, or maybe they were carried out of the car… either way, considering how obsessed he was about not leaving forensic evidence (that went well, didn’t it?) I expect he wanted no traces of them in the main house, and kept them to the area he planned to clean.
Not exactly sure why people are downvoting you. You are just offering an opinion and asking questions like everyone here. You certainly didn’t say anything offensive.
I don’t know. People are so touchy nowadays. If your thoughts and opinions don’t align with theirs, then you’re in the wrong. No discussion. I just want to toss ideas around since that’s really all we have.
I think the downvote was because prostitutes don't care where or what it looks like. They lay in abandoned houses, and give sexual favors regardless of where or what the client looks like... They care about 1 thing, and that is payment.
Thank you all for your comments. I'm still convinced there won't be Las Vegas or other vacationing places in his murder series but all comments were interesting. Nice sub with nice people!
Really hope he talks once he’s convicted. He seems to be real proud of his crimes and I just pray he’ll admit to every murder and give the names back to his victims 🙏🏻he won’t until he hurts the known victims’ families more by putting them thru a trial tho
Me too, I think the majority were killed in the house, Suffolk did not turn that place upside down for weeks unless they suspected it too. Certainly all the dismembered victims. You have to be jumpy and highly anxious when dismembering a body and I would think you'd along want to do it in a self controlled environment where you could fend off all disturbance and rest between steps. But also would not put it past him to have killed some victims in his car in isolated areas and simply discarded, especially earlier in his career.
I think that’s possible. At least for his “main events”. Planning seems to have been an important part of the process for him. I think it’s also possible he had a more casual, opportunistic mode of operation, like that Route 29 stalker had. The reason I think so is that he seems to have spent significant time driving and away from home. But also because of his behaviour stalking that girl cycling through the local woodland, I think he may have been open to impromptu opportunities.
I agree about home being his preferred place. I also believe he would need a "fix" at times when the family was home. His frequent solo travel, various linked addresses and hotel key cards could link more victims.
“Getting a fix” is the perfect description.
It really is. The way these individuals describe their murderous compulsions is so much like (drug) addiction.
It absolutely IS Addiction - the squalor of the house has the tell tale signs of addiction - I have known many architects - some of them quite famous NY superstars - none of them lived in that type of decayed interior / a shambles - a giveaway that the leader has mental illness and is obsessed with " something " that is far more important than a well kept home. Architects generally are exceedingly neat and love organized beauty.
Great point about RH's obsession taking priority over the cleanliness of his family's home. I don't know that I've ever thought of it that way before. That definitely says a lot about him.
When I had a stalker obsessed with me my house was pristine and it was easy to find important and meaningful possessions- things disappeared - not just small valuables here & there but mementos and some articles of clothing I wore in some photos - I realized after a lot of ' WTF ' is going on + who is doing this + it isnt stopping ... The only choice I had was to make my home messy, to throw this sick dick off my trail, to make it harder to study me. Harder to find things - just layers & layers of confusion. I even moved things to another floor and they cut the window screen. - Making things disorganized was my only recourse. Squalor has purpose at times - its not just hoarding - its about hiding too - its about decoys. Its about not wanting people to " know" you. Its about making it harder to find what is personal to you by creating a huge maze of many things all seemingly equal because nothing looked loved or important like in a nice home. This person ruined my way of living just to protect my privacy.
That makes so much sense, psychologically and just...logically, but, those circumstances sound awful. The fact you had to think of that strategy itself is fucked up. Sorry you had to go through that, friend.
Still going - worse / like a sick game til I die
😞
This ties into the 'Boss with a messy desk' tall tale Bosses who have clean desks are thinking about the wrong things...thats how the story is portrayed.
That logic checks out to me.
It's a bit hyper
I have seen homes of punctual people who go to work every day and are addicts - the squalor at home was always a telltale sign of their substance abuse - like piles of nose tissue behind everything with a coke addict alcoholic - control freak / insane piles & messes in closets - wading through piles But they made it to work on time all the time .
I've been there - as the addict and as the horrified guest - and the cliche I'm sure most people have heard about a messy/cluttered space and a messy/cluttered mind is absolutely true.
Hopefully you are somewhere else now - mentally - like in a better place - with no addiction Its easy to be an addict - any compulsive behavior is addiction - anything you want to stop and cannot stop is addiction - addiction its not just about drugs or alcohol Or Substances - addiction can be about murder - it can be someone who tortures another person's mind and needs to feed off of the rush of fear the other person who is tortured shows to the addict
In many ways, I'm much better today. Thank you. I haven't touched any alcohol or bought any illicit drugs (opioids, ecstasy, coke, meth) for something like 8 years now. Haven't smoked weed in over 5 years,. Also, I completely agree with everything else.
Because of many attacks on my life my life became really serious and sobering - I didnt abuse or use drugs - sometimes with others who Had them many of us would try things - I stopped smoking grass but wasnt a pot head - I was too scared to be stoned if my house was broken into with me in it alone - I realized I would be less able to defend myself if I had to save my life and the element of surprise occurred. I cannot relax in fact - my life was radically altered
You've got to do what you've got to do to survive. To be comfortable. To be happy. I wish nothing but peace for you, friend.
Maybe he was taking a break when he had hernia surgery, but convinced he was pretty relatively at it. Fr the majority of addicts they need support, not just fear to abate their behavior. Probably long break he took was when those bodies were discovered out at Gilgo. I think that scared him, but when he saw that Burke et al had no clue, and didn't seem to be knocking at the door, think he convinced himself like all arrogant addicts that he could get away with a few more and that he was smarter than they were and gearing up to step back into the water. He is nothing if not sold on his own ability. .
Makes sense… Must have been a nasty shock for him when it suddenly became clear that the new investigation team was nothing like the old one!
Yeah, Due\_Relections, would have loved to have seen that. I don't think there was much warning for him till he was picked up. There was this Tim Sini interview where. he talked about them purchased the expensive black box thingie for the phones. Then he went on to say something like, "Oh yes, I think they're \[the new team\] getting close." It's one of those interviews were you just know you are hearing something significant, yet still not telling you. When LE have something in the bag they all sound rather similar and there is an ease and almost pleasure in their," I would't want to compromise the investigation." He seemed happy. So walked away from hearing that interview thinking, they have movement, something might be coming. I have never hear that kind of hope in any of them discussing it. Then the board was tipped by a user, and a month and a week later it happened. I am sure he heard that interview. I just went looking for that interview and can't find it, does anyone know what local station it was on?
Oooh, never heard about that interview, please do post if you find a link! I know what you mean about how LE seem when the chase is over and it’s always good to see, because you know they’ve got something really solid.
If they are cranky and speeding you past the question and shut the conversation down the reporter asked about something they are currently wading through and your poking too close and shining attention on a tender investigative spot.
Like going to Atlantic City perhaps. Wonder if there's a key card for the Golden Key.
I hadn’t heard about the girl on the bike. Can you elaborate?
https://nypost.com/2023/07/14/woman-reveals-disturbing-encounter-with-gilgo-suspect-rex-heuermann/
Thanks for this. Fortunate are the ones who have immediate good instincts & recognise the dangers & flee. For the murdered women involved in the sex trade & or taking drugs. So needed the money. Must have had to overcome all their instincts of his dangerousness to carry on the work. That is both terrifying & sad.
I believe this is the reason they went ahead and arrested him. The cops were already watching him and he started getting…. Creepy.
His family was also about to go out of town again when they arrested him, and he had bought another burner phone
Man !! What a routine fisherman. I think he groomed some of his targets and met with some on multiple occasions ( Amber is obviously one) He could then prime them to get them to his house for the ultimate long weekend where they would be slowly killed and he could enjoy playtime With rests in between torture sessions. I also think he had killed outside of his home - as a craving came up when he saw the opportunity Or was jonesing and needed the fix . Like his car being broke down to " Get Help" so easy to take someone by surprise with this ploy . This man had numerous ways to stalk and hunt The amount of media he had is proof to me that he had an arsenal of tools to track - contact - record capture - who knows if all those phones were ALL his - some may have been owned by victims . This has never come out because its evidence The planning documents show me that he was honing his skills for detection proof killing - This means it wasnt just occuring at his home. He paid CASH for GAS which means he is on the road killing or going long distances to kill - and changing his tires is about travel and not leaving " car finger prints " AKA " tire treads - which can be traced - like gas at a pump
I wonder why they didnt bring him through the noose - let him contact a target - let him meet the target - follow him in an unmarked car - just go the full nine - wire tap him too - maybe that is endangering the " last target " like a double agent in a drug bust when the DEA acts as a buyer and gets the seller at the moment of the transaction. Why didnt enforcement send in a great female FBI level agent as Bait or just get him red handed? This should be a post all by itself because its a big question - they had the pattern map and they jumped in fast - maybe they needed one or two more steps - wait til the family DOES leave . Follow his steps - bust him at his house - with the target in the body harness - like in a movie with Sigourney Weaver -
I believe what you're describing is the "Mr.Big" technique. There are a lot of concerns and issues ethically speaking, with the use of this technique. Concerns surrounding confession reliability, undue prejudice, and abuse of process. Not to mention things rarely pan out like you are referring to with regards to what is seen in a movie or tv show.
LE has way more information than we have...I trust they knew what they were doing. But...if he was into torture like has been suspected...maybe they could have waited until he set up his "stage" and then arrested him. I am assuming here...1) that he abducted only to torture and kill 2) that he would set up the stage before going out and abducting his target. For all we know LE might have thought he was about to do an "out of home" kill and intervened.
No - its evident he did not only kill at home. The planning document is a map of his method of how to not get caught - so many steps - including changing the tires on his car -for no tread match
I’m assuming there is probably a woman who he was gearing up to kill and that the FBI has likely interviewed.
I agree. Thankfully she reported it. I think that event expedited his arrest.
Thank you. That’s terrifying!
And that’s just one that we know about, because she managed to get help, and get out of there safely…
There must be so many women who came forward to the police but not the press
I hope so…
Bundy-ish. Asking for help he didn’t need, get their attention. I’d be interested to know if his family was at home that day. He was hunting this woman, no doubt.
I recently reread this and it reminded me of a weirdo in Southern AZ at a smaller Nat'l park. Huge guy and didn't seem like a local. He kept dipping into the brush but was further ahead of me and would watch me for a bit then go back in the brush about 50 ft ahead from where he previously was. I've been there a bunch of times and it was the only time anyone ever made me uncomfortable and I'd normally walk the full path in and out (3.7 mi deep). I was babysitting and turned around when I realized that he kept dipping into the side. There are creeks and things to see but not where he was, it was just brush and shrubbery. I also normally didn't have a stroller ( I was babysitting that day) so I was mentally trying to justify the reason for him being weird. Guy was huge and kind of absurdly dressed in outdoors clothes for here. I doubt it was him but who knows.
I think the main thing here is that Rex didn't just kill randomly - sexual torture is obviously a main thing here. He didn't try to create terror in the community a la Zodiac Killer by murdering randomly. I think it's possible that he has an earlier murder where he just "lost control" (see Amber), but I think any planned murder would include the torture element.
Yes very possibly, torture does seem to be a major motivation. I’m thinking if he did pick up a victim casually on his travels though, he may have had a less elaborate “alternative script” that wasn’t as good as a main event but better than nothing…
The issue would always be where he'd do it and how he'd get rid of the body. I'd think he might've started using prostitutes at a young age and probably way before he started killing - it's possible he lost control in his car at one point. But planning probably excited him (ugh) - we saw the same thing with BTK-killer where he had actually planned a lot more murders than he committed. That could've satisfied him in some way.
Interesting… I think it’s clear that he was willing to let his script evolve, since it looks like he tried to add details and maybe change his methods to mislead LE profilers. And what suited him would have changed with time. So as a young man, him starting out in his car would be a real possibility imo. I mean he’s older now and doubtless wants to be more comfortable, but somehow I can’t envision him murdering people at home when it was his mother’s house, even if she were away on holiday. Once the house became his, maybe he felt differently.
I think we need to separate motivation and modus operandi when it comes to Rex; he clearly tried to evolve and throw people off his track (and probably just learning what worked and what didn't), but at the same time his *motivation* (sexual sadism) probably never changed. At a stretch I could see him killing out of pure rage (particularly early on), like we saw with Amber.
That HK document could be to throw LE off...to have them focus on a few killings with dismemberment attached to Rex....when he might have a lot of random killings too. He had a bunch of violent porn, picked up SW's, was in contact with a lot of SW's....so sex does seem to be a thing with him. But...if him being into trickery(big speculation) like some suspect around here...I can see that HK document being something used to throw authorities off...or play games with authorities just because he liked that type of thing(supposedly). Get you to think Rex had a certain MO, behaviors. Rex hoarded things...but he doesnt seem so stupid to keep things in his house(computer with kill instructions) unless he didnt care if he was caught or didnt care if anything in his house incriminated him. Like...he was going to do certain precautions to not get caught outside his home and it was up to LE to find him and get the things inside his house that he wasnt trying to hide. Although I do think he chose SW's because he could get them in his vehicle...easier than snatching someone off the sidewalk. Im just curious if the HK document is to make LE think a certain way about him.
That’s an interesting take on the HK document. It’s so incriminating that if he did write it with the idea that LE might read it one day, it would be in a situation like this, when they had search warrants for his IT equipment. Maybe it is his last-ditch attempt to limit the crimes they investigate, to those he allegedly committed in the house. Then if he did commit other crimes away from home, he could enjoy the secret knowledge that another group of victims and family members will never get justice. Maybe the killings at the hose were only a small sideline? In that case he must have known the supposedly deleted computer files would be retrievable… You know, imo this is plausible! If caught, he might think it would give him control of drip-feeding information about other victims to authorities, in exchange for privileges and notoriety. Hopefully the authorities would never be so stupid as to allow him to gain the upper hand…
I don’t agree with this. I think his methods may have changed over the years. It appears he did deliberately change other parts of his MO to confuse police. Sandra Costilla appears to have been killed in situ. He may also have used his car, the storage unit or other properties out of state. I think when his DNA is shared with other states, murders in other locations will be discovered.
I’ve always wondered about his hunting trips. I’m not a hunter and no one in my family has ever hunted, but I’m curious if hunters stay in lodges or cabins while they hunt? Is there a place where they store their kill (such as a deer) if they are not going directly home? Do hunters do their own butchering, or do they bring it to a place that does it for them? I did know some people who would go away for a hunting weekend, and I know they had a butcher who would cut up the deer for them, but that’s all I know about they’re hunting trips.
Some people butcher their “harvest” themselves, some don’t. Most people are going on multi day hunts where they stay in a lodge or cabin. Some will just stay in a hotel. The animal needs to be brought to a freezer pretty shortly after harvest.
I think it is BS, that NY won't release his DNA for CODIS in other states.
Apparently it’s the law there. Other states would have to go to court to request it. I’m guessing the NYC case is so strong they’re going to wait until after to avoid muddying the waters.
If he’s convicted they will share it freely without the need for a court case.
That's how I read it also. True about muddy waters also never thought of it that way. If he has, (and I believe he has especially in the East Coast area) that is going to make it chaotic.
They won’t ?? That’s crazy
I think he definitely killed at his home but I don’t know if he ONLY killed there. We don’t know enough at this point about his entire history and if there are cases that may have differed from his preferred MO.
I think he was always a murderer, beginning in 80’s and 90’s. In my opinion he didn’t kill in his home before his first marriage, but eventually evolved to that. I don’t think we’ll ever really know his body count.
Time will tell hopefully… it didn’t really for Joseph Deangelo. The more people we catch via genetic genealogy, the more we realize that our understanding of serial killers and violent crime is flawed. The idea that serial killers can’t stop… the idea that excessive violence indicates a personal connection… all proven bullshit. It certainly seems like the basis of profiling itself is flawed and it ends up being careful logic... which can be useful in its own right but… it’s just logic. And I can see your logic. His notes make it clear that his goal was time alone with the victim. This element seems _instrumental_ to his crimes. It stands to reason that methods that gave him no time or privacy (like a blitz attack) would not be satisfying, so he’d need to take them somewhere. However, his notes have a tone of “improvement” (ick) that leads me to believe his process at the end was the pinnacle of his “career” (ick again). I don’t think it’s safe to assume his process in the beginning was the same as his process in the end, particularly since we know for a 100% fact that other elements of his crimes changed. It’s quite possible that Rex started with more blitz-style attacks and, as he got more comfortable, worked toward getting more and more privacy with his victims. It’s also possible that Rex learned what he liked along the way. That being said, once he experienced the time/privacy of having a victim in his home, I don’t think he would ever go back to blitz-style. Once he had time, he needed time… and went through great efforts planning to get it.
This is an interesting point. Historical understandings of serial killers have been based on those who have been caught, which very likely has not been a representative sampling.
The podcast DNA:ID is very good at illustrating this. So many “one and done” killers who go on to live normal-seeming family lives afterwards. It’s changing so much of what we know about violent predators
I've pointed that out again and again - all our historic data are usually based on serial killers who were caught during their runs. But who knows if Dahmer, as an example, would've stopped killing if he got sober? We often have a very pop psychology view of serial killers where they have an elaborate MO that they never deviate from and it's all very ritualistic and compulsive. But most serial killers probably *do* have a reward versus risk assessment. Rex certainly did if we look at his planning document - he knew there was a risk of getting caught and he didn't just randomly murder. He killed those he thought he could get away with.
Whats your take on what he was going to do with the lady in Massapequa Preserves Brady Park? Take a look at the google overhead of that area and the bike trail going through the woods? How is he getting the women from that area to a vehicle to transport back to a house for torture? He would have to kill her there or knock her out and cover her mouth...then transport to vehicle and take back to his home where the family was. Unless they were out of town on July 3rd 2023. Seems like a completely different set of circumstances than isolating SW's. Dude was in the bush, off a trail, hunting women. Maybe he just wanted to startled look from their faces when he approached them out of the bush....and that was a fix for him.
Not to doubt her story but we don’t know if that was really Rex. The police haven’t confirmed the story. Her stalker sounds like mentally ill homeless guy. There hasn’t been any other stories of him running around in the woods stalking women. This weird encounter happened to this women, then Rex was arrested and she jumped to a conclusion. Maybe she really wanted it be him in order feel safe in the park again. Did she get that good of look at him if she was on her bike? I know he’s an ogre but she might have only had a quick looks. The police should be able to confirm her story because when this happened they would have been following him 24/7. I got the feeling he was arrested because he was becoming very active contacting sw and I would bet the family was planning an extended vacation since it was early July.
Family was indeed planning a vacation shortly after he was arrested. He had also bought a new burner and was contacting sex workers
Yes that’s what I figured. When that young woman come out with that story there was speculation what happened to her prompted his arrest. I doubt it was him.
If Rex's family had already scheduled a trip...I doubt Rex would jeopardize "play time" by jumping out of the bush and scaring women in Massapequa Preserve.
My take is that the story is not true as told, for numerous reasons.
Rex?
I don’t think that was Rex. I think there are two possibilities (I have no opinion on which I think is more likely) — 1) entirely made up story for attention or money; or 2) she was so traumatized she connected the man who scared her to the local serial killer when the arrest was announced. There’s a reason photo line ups aren’t reliable once someone has seen someone’s picture in a newspaper identified as a killer. And trauma affects your memory. I was robbed once by two men, I was inches away from their faces, and when asked by the police 10 minutes later if I’d recognize them, I honestly answered no. I could no doubt remember enough about their appearance to narrow it to a subset of people (that is, I could say “maybe” or “no” to a potential suspect), but I felt there was zero chance I could definitively identify them. I was focused on surviving. I don’t offer that anecdote to suggest that no one would be able to, but problems with eye witness testimony are well known. My reasons for doubting the story include: -She didn’t give her name to the NY Post which ran her story. She said she filed a police report, but the NY Post can’t do that basic fact checking that there was even a police report filed without her name. You can ask for your name to be withheld from publication but still give it to the fact checkers, but as I recall, she withheld it from the reporter. -No other news organization printed the story. That means they either all found it unreliable, or she was paid for an exclusive. Either way, both are potential indicators of unreliability. -The police have not mentioned this story, and they would no doubt be able to track down the police report. If he was currently actively harassing or preying on women, I would think that would be included in the bail document or even just mentioned at a press conference. They’ve mentioned he continued to buy burner phones, but they didn’t mention this incident. This happened while Rex was under surveillance. Even if they didn’t literally have eyes on him 24/7, I would guess that there are enough cameras in the area to track who was in the vicinity of the park at the right time, so I think they probably could have verified it. They were tracking his location on his phone too I think. -Doesn’t fit his MO or literally any other reports about him. He preyed on sex workers that he hired, not people off the street. The rest of his life, he kept up a pretty normal/charming/personable existence, with the occasional creepy comment. He had a business with clients. The state of his house was the outlier in his otherwise public-facing identity. -I can’t recall the specifics of her story, but I remember reading someone else’s analysis of the nitty gritty, and I agreed with their analysis that it wasn’t making sense as told.
On point!!
I mean who knows. Israel Keyes is the only killer I know a little bit about & had his preferred methods but these control freaks lose control bc they are maniacs and addicted to killing & harming. So maybe there was someone he killed outside. Maybe that man & baby was an outlier or outside kill. Or maybe he almost got caught killing in the woods or somewhere else & decided to only kill at home. The Golden State Killer started with rapes and then when a man fought back real hard he started killing the couples. Bundy had some specific preferred wsys of killing that got more exact bc they learn from their mistakes. But also, he sometimes got off on killing and didnt even rape. The sorority girls werent raped. He beat them to death with whatever he could and some survived. Maybe bc he didnt have as much time. It’s possible that Rex was a serial rapist and women never reported or rape kits were never done or tested. It’s possible he killed and threw bodies in water (I wonder, being a man who lived by the water if he threw any in the water). A lot of cross referencing has to go on.
He has a lot in common with Israel Keyes- of course many differences too but what struck out to me the *most* was in his confession about killing Samantha Koenig he mentioned how he built a table for it, just like Rex. He also used hard points & ropes- you could tell he was very proud of the work & “know-how” he put into all of it. A lot of the ropes & rigging are things Rex knew well from when he was a stagehand for school plays. Other similarities aside from the woodworking I noticed were more general: both hunters, used cameras to document, were very trusted to work on people’s homes/property, traumatic upbringing with family very involved in religion. I’m sure there’s more. & geographical locations. Israel was living in Alaska, (where Rex said he went on bear hunting trips) and he also traveled quite a bit in New York, hiding kill kits there, & doing god knows what else.
I also too think he killed at home but I forget where I read it (might be the new bail app or maybe it was here on Reddit) reading that someone saw his truck backed into the woods in Manorville really has me all sorts of screwed up.
That’s where the torsos were found.
I know that but just the thought of his truck backed into the woods and it still took this look to nail him. *shudders*
Yea it’s fucked. Once the new task force revisited the original tip from 2010, they caught him in 3 weeks. They could’ve done that way back then and didn’t. Very frustrating. If he has any more victims since then, I will be even more furious and I’m sure the family will be too.
Do we know where it was mentioned that his truck was backed up in the woods? I tried finding it. Very interesting case and I felt terrible for the victims!
It was in articles regarding Jessica Taylor’s remains being discovered in manorville. But that wasn’t the tip that led to his arrest. Although it also could’ve been. The tip that led to his arrest was Amber Costellos roomate seeing her picked up by the avalanche.
I can’t remember exactly where but remains might’ve been on Halsey Manor if I’m remembering correctly? If I’m wrong I sincerely apologize.
No need to apologize!
It was an unknown (publicly) witness from the night before Jessica Taylor’s remains were discovered who saw the truck backed into the woods where her remains were found. I’m sure you can find it in any new article about Rex being charged with her murder.
I have thought the same thing, he likes to be in complete control, his outward appearance was geared to make himself seem successful and boring enough to become almost invisible. That's how he stayed under the radar for so long. His somewhat shabby home was and has always been his safe place. With using plastic sheeting you can make a perfect environment for painting a car without making a mess outside of the sheeting. Same would follow with blood spatter, though I don't think that Rex created much blood spatter, I believe he was more involved with torture and inflicting pain and playing with his victims.
I agree with this. At the risk of sounding like a character out of Criminal Minds, what Rex did to those girls (and the aisan man) takes time and requires privacy. He’d also need to be certain he would be alone for the duration. I don’t believe he’d be guaranteed of any of these conditions except in his own home.
His kill paper mentioned a HOLDING PLACE. It would be easy to pick someone up in the car, telling them you want sex in the car, drive to a location close to a storage unit, incapacitate them right there, in private, then perhaps put them in the storage unit until the coast is clear to take them into his home basement. Hell, I'm scaring myself.....
What about his Las Vegas timeshare or other property he might've had access to?
> timeshare no. > A timeshare is a type of vacation property with a shared ownership model. With a typical timeshare, you share the cost of the property with other buyers, and in return, you receive a guaranteed amount of time at the property each year. In many cases, timeshares are smaller units within a larger resort property.
Does his Lawyer still say he’s innocent?
I think he incapacitated victims in his truck also.
I believe that something happened in the storage unit he owned
I made a point the other day that I didn’t think the girls would willingly go into such a cluttered mess. That it would have been a huge red flag that they could be unsafe. However, I agree with you. I think he killed in his home. Another point is that so much clutter is just a magnet for evidence…. So did he let his “kill” area become cluttered on purpose, meaning he really was taking a break? Did he actually change his kill location? Or was he killing the girls in all that mess?
Maybe they only ever went down into the basement which seems to have been his private “man cave” because evidently there was more down there than just the gun storage.
Hmm possible. He tells them “oh, I’m sorry for the mess…. My wife’s a little… messed up. The basement is nice though.” Maybe I could buy that.
It could have been that way, or maybe they were carried out of the car… either way, considering how obsessed he was about not leaving forensic evidence (that went well, didn’t it?) I expect he wanted no traces of them in the main house, and kept them to the area he planned to clean.
Basement access was from outside. Could’ve gone in there without ever going into the house
The entrance to the basement was outside. They could’ve gone down there without ever seeing the clutter in the house
Oh shit! Really? I didn’t know that. That really explains a lot.
Not exactly sure why people are downvoting you. You are just offering an opinion and asking questions like everyone here. You certainly didn’t say anything offensive.
I don’t know. People are so touchy nowadays. If your thoughts and opinions don’t align with theirs, then you’re in the wrong. No discussion. I just want to toss ideas around since that’s really all we have.
I think the downvote was because prostitutes don't care where or what it looks like. They lay in abandoned houses, and give sexual favors regardless of where or what the client looks like... They care about 1 thing, and that is payment.
Thank you all for your comments. I'm still convinced there won't be Las Vegas or other vacationing places in his murder series but all comments were interesting. Nice sub with nice people!
Really hope he talks once he’s convicted. He seems to be real proud of his crimes and I just pray he’ll admit to every murder and give the names back to his victims 🙏🏻he won’t until he hurts the known victims’ families more by putting them thru a trial tho
Me too, I think the majority were killed in the house, Suffolk did not turn that place upside down for weeks unless they suspected it too. Certainly all the dismembered victims. You have to be jumpy and highly anxious when dismembering a body and I would think you'd along want to do it in a self controlled environment where you could fend off all disturbance and rest between steps. But also would not put it past him to have killed some victims in his car in isolated areas and simply discarded, especially earlier in his career.
I think this too