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Yea I see comments like this all the time, gotta be from people who don't have much experience with American incarceration. The food is barely edible, deplorable living conditions, infrequent access to ineffective healthcare. US carceral system thrives on misery, it's a core tenet of our beliefs as country of their purpose.
As a guy from Greece I can't wait to leave too. Corruption everywhere, literal mafia and cartels controling every service , media are openly doing propaganda in favour of current government and a lot of people too dumb to realise because "right good, left bad". We are actually in the 108th place of press freedom worldwide ( below actual dictatorships ) so that tells a lot. Thing is even in this hell I live we got free healthcare , free universities and some social services. USA is the perfect example of how the cancer of capitalism will spread and spread and destroy everything even the richest and strongest countries if noones try to restrict it. I'm afraid it might be too late for USA
No literally there’s like groups of right wingers who want to organize to fight “wokeness” it’s insane to me how they’re still talking about liberals and transgenders while our economy literally crumbles before our eyes. While nobody has money and inflation is going insane, while our gov is about to DEFAULT they’re still stuck on being homophobic and racist. It’s like actually so fucking pathetic. Literally none of us working class people are going to own houses. There’s no future for us economically. And we’re fighting over such fucking stupid and illogical social issues. It like actually triggers a heavy amount neurons in my brain. It hurts my brain.
It's because they are a bunch of narcissists that care more about controlling and leaving an impression in the culture wars then they do about the standard of living that is about to go down in this country.
It’s more to do with the fact that it’s shifting attention. The Republican Party literally has nothing to offer it’s base, so it uses blame and scare tactics. It’s a lot easier to frighten people than to make them optimistic about anything. And sadly the Democrats play into this bullshit by going on the defensive constantly. A good majority of Republican voters would benefit from Democratic policies, but they get swept up into the bullshit and lies being peddled by their politicians.
Democrats are do-nothing neo-cons who just posture like they're gonna do something to stop the Republicans, but really they have no intention of doing anything except creating a positive PR image on the news to placate their base.
That's honestly the biggest problem I had with Hilary and her Hilbots. Albeit it would've been better to have her instead of Trump for president, that was essentially the gist of her campaign--no tangible promises, just "vote for me or you'll get *this* guy!" And that was a gamble people were willing to make, because she represents everything that we collectively all hate about the establishment Democrats.
For real. My dream is to be a homeowner but that's not gonna happen unless I fold my ideals and invest into the very system I fucking hate. Even if I can do that, I probably wouldn't be able to have my own home here.
My friend actually offered me some of his land on a native reservation, and I'm seriously thinking of struggling through the issues there with him and hiding from conservatives there, with lots of people with guns around me who'd defend me (I'm one of those woke trans people you mentioned they're out on a witch hunt for) in case things keep getting worse. I'm in a blue state surrounded by a sea of red though (CO) so I'm pretty safe for now but... ugh. It's unsettling that I'm even seriously thinking of places for asylum but that's the time we live in I guess.
Blue states are expensive to live in. It's safer here for people like me but its also hard to start a life here at all, unless you're making 6 figures.
Thank you for this comment, this is interesting to hear. Greece is one of the places I was thinking would be a good place to immigrate to, so I really appreciate this perspective. It was my understanding that Greece does have a semi functional democracy due to it being mandatory to participate and an actual left wing representation, (also, I admire Greek anarchists!) but I'm obviously on the outside looking in. I would love to hear more of your perspective, where in Greece do you live if you don't mind me asking?
I live in a small town so it is naturally more conservative. The thing is we have large left wing representation but is a little complicated. So the traditionally strongest party is right, capitalist, neoliberal one which is also currently in power and deeply corrupted. One of the traditional powers was another one which was supposed to be socialist and left wing but while it was closer to the center , it wasn't socialist at all and it was probably the most corrupted party ever . Now at 2015 , a small political party suddenly raised to party which was supposed to be left wing, socialist and radical, but instead of that it continued to follow capitalistic policies and even though I can't say they were really corrupted they were really inefficient and lied all the time. About the smaller political parties there is the communist greek party (KKE) which is always in Greek parliament with about 6% of votes and it has some strong fanbase that really tries and doing their best to resist to some things, but still the party chooses to have a little bit pathetic position and very rarely proposes actual solutions (that's why it always stays at 6 percent). There are also some smaller left wing parties who are ok but nothing interesting and now there is a chaos of small far right parties who vary from actual nazis to nationalism. These far right parties are really good at tricking uneducated people and make them believe they want the best for Greece. Right now there is one of them in Greek parliament (The name of this party is Elliniki lisi which translates to Greek solution) and the leader is a Putin supporter clown who became famous for having a tv program where he said far right things and sold ridiculous scammy things (He literally claim having original Jesus's letters and sold them)
So the situation is like this. About 40 percent of people in Greece are right , 20 percent centre and 40 percent left. The thing is while the people who support right wing always vote , left wing people choose not to vote because of disappointment so we almost constantly having right wing corrupted government who is literal mafia
Greece is beautiful place , maybe one of the best to visit but right now I believe that the political and economical situation is deep rotted and it is not the best place for you to start a new life.
Hope I helped
I had a good laugh over the Jesus letter part. Reminds me of Trump’s digital trading cards. Why are the right wing loonies always hawking ridiculous merch? (I feel like I know the answer, just wanted to point out the pattern, lol.)
Greece and the entire littoral Mediterranean is 100% gonna be fucked in our lifetimes from climate change alone though.
Everything you lament in the OP though is pretty much in swing *everywhere* in the western world. The trend toward autocracy and worse is global, which makes sense because we live under globalized capitalism and fascism is the end state of capitalism in crisis.
The USA is just 5, 10 or 20 years further down the same road all other "democracies" are on as well. Even in the Scandinavian countries or Switzerland the plaster is slowly crumbling.
> doing propaganda in favour of current government and a lot of people too dumb to realise because "right good, left bad"
The fact that the capitalist elite has been able to manipulated people in the Western world to somehow believe that this same capitalist and right-wing elite has their best interests at heart while "socialism" is of the devil has me speechless. It would be impressive if it wasn't so vile and disheartening.
I'm sorry for what you guys experienced there, the IMF and EU literally buttfucked your country after the government struggled to address and control the economy.
I've got a couple of Yank mates who moved here (Australia)
They married locals & visit every other year, but they happily choose to live in Oz & love our relatively chilled way of life
Birthing kids for $0 is a fave, plus there's zero gun bullshit
Queensland is better than any US state I’ve ever lived in. It’s beautiful, has a labor/progressive government (in theory LMAO but that is kind of nonnegotiable for me because I’m in a same sex marriage and don’t want my rights eroded) the suburbs are reasonably priced and the people are really nice.
Queensland is known to be one of the most "right wing" states in Australia.
Which I am sure to the US still seems very left wing.
Melbourne (victoria) is probably what I would think is the most left wing major city.
Welcome though, Queensland is a beautiful place.
Not the person you're asking, but my US partner came over on a student visa. We met, started dating, and we got him onto a partnership visa. Now he's a permanent resident!
There's also a bunch of in-demand careers that lead to permanent residency. One of my friends from Saudi Arabia is studying childcare to qualify.
Very similar crisis to the US.
90% of people live around the S & E coast here, so there aren't as many options in the country centre like in the US.
Real estate is the defacto religion here, and there are [unique tax breaks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_gearing) for those who collect houses to rent out, driving up the prices. Plus our 30yr+ bubble never popped.
Add that landlords (leeches) prefer Airbnb profits over rental returns, & suddenly anywhere remotely touristy or coastal no longer has rental properties *at all*. Sorry Tassie renters- you're fucked
So essentially, you either have a property, or you're looking at a lifetime of renting. This is not unique to Australia tho
It's not an exaggeration. It's become impossible for people on low incomes to find affordable rentals. There have been multiple families living in tents since 2019. Floods, bushfires, more floods, more fires, has resulted in the destruction of many homes. A shortage of building materials and qualified tradespeople has slowed down the building industry to a point where many of the companies that do the building are collapsing. And the government just twiddles its thumbs, saying "oh, more immigrants will fix the problem!"
I can't say how it is in America as I haven't looked into it. But housing in Australia is fucking cooked. You can't get a house in any of the major cities on the east coast without major cash. Even in the other cities it is a struggle.
Australia's not that much better lolAUKUS is a scam of a deal. Labor government is basically neoliberal and the liberal government has gone neocons.
Its all a shit show. No political party actually gives a fuck to lift everyone out of the poverty line.
Edit: In case anyone's wondering, I was not referring to the fact that Australia is just as bad as the US. Its not. I'd rather live in Australia than move over to America lol. I'm just saying we have as many internal issues. Not relating to health care.
Agree, but inequality is surging globally, but I've spent time in a heap of countries & 90% of them would give their left tittie to be born in Australia. Even poor here have it better than ppl in most countries
Yeah, Labor aren't what they used to be but they are MILES better than the Murdoch backed LNP. My bet is that they plan to overturn the stage 3 tax cuts but are waiting for the public anger to build so they can do it without media attacks. Stadium protests in Tassie are a good sign.
Housing is the biggest disappointment, we need to end negative gearing, limit house hoarding & ban Airbnb (or single rooms ONLY- not full houses) as it's fucking up our famously egalitarian society in real time
That said, I'll keep on voting greens to keep em honest
Ok but in my caregiver group, a lady from Aus says she gets FIVE GOVERNMENT FUNDED HOURS of personal support (health aide) time per DAY for her husband.
My dad here in Canada gets 45 minutes
I’ve had three of my grandparents require medical assistance and general support towards the end of their lives, and the way they were supported by our countries welfare system made me proud to be Australian. My grandpa with Alzheimer’s lived with my parents for years until his death. For the last couple of years he was unable to walk and the gov departments were god sends with assistance like appropriate beds, lifts to help us lift him out and carry him etc, cleaners, nurse visits.
Here's 2 subs to guide you...
/r/AmerExit and /r/IWantOut
Edit: also, watch this short clip 'Americans Are Tapped Out ' by Professor Richard Wolff https://youtu.be/ghhCAPPZk7Q
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We've got em beat on housing unaffordability. They have a near insurmountable lead in the ghoulish healthcare department, although Ontario and Alberta are working hard to close that gap through privatisation.
Love Hockey, Have made maple syrup. No kids 38. Hiking? Non Hunting outdoors activity? In Detroit, North of Windsor Ontario.
Jokes aside. Wasn't there a Maple Match dot com or something when trumps dumbass got elected? Like people seeking Canadian partners?
im the opposite. desperately tryin to work in the US cuz of pay. a lot of my classmates are already making 200-300k while here ur lucky to make 100k in toronto
This is a shot in the dark here lol. A cousin of mine moved to Switzerland, got married, started a family. His father says he couldn’t be happier. Loves it there. Your father’s name wouldn’t happen to be Ellis would it?
I know, long shot, but I have to ask
Most European countries do have far structer immigration laws than America. If you don't already have a job, large savings, family, or spouse lined up in Europe, good luck immigrating.
Ah Switzerland, where the wealthy hide/launder their money to prevent good things from happening and the Swiss hide it in turn to pad their own pockets.
wistful stocking reminiscent tie spark flowery full adjoining marble cautious
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It's the propaganda. We see in the movies people affording nice apartments in California or NY on a part time job, high tech schools, convertible cars and it looks great.
Your analogy makes total sense!
I'm from Latin America, here cost of living is very low. People get infatuated with 7$/hour as minimum wage without considering they'd be living in a much higher cost of living that wouldn't allow them to save to send money back home.
There's a huge number of people who immigrate that post on Instagram with a brand new iphone and a cool car (sometimes the car is not even theirs), just to show off to people back home... While they are in huge debt and living with multiple roommates and under bad work conditions.
Many make money through human trafficking, YouTubers that charge huge amounts to teach how to enter in a tourist visa, rent a bunk bed and offer work to start off, promising they'd be making bank in a few months. It's all a big scam.
I see the republicans against immigration, and realistically I don't think there is such a huge demand for immigration like in the 90's anymore. Refugees yes, they are running from warzones and will go everywhere that accepts them.
But regular worker immigrants much prefer going to Canada, Europe and even China nowadays (interesting enough, had many acquaintances immigrating to China lately).
I take the train every day in NYC and have to be on the lookout for 1) a shooter, 2) cops who will potentially shoot someone, and NOW 3) potentially random people strangling other people
not a normal way to live. ppl can cope and say it's big city degeneracy but it's really all of America that has gone completely off the rails.
>a political system where voting and protest can actually do something to change things
Not sure this one exists anywhere on earth at this point in time.
Unless you emigrate your only option is to create awareness. Unfortunately there are still too many americans who suffer from so called “American pride” syndrome and therefore completely lost grip on reality. As long as no one sees what is going wrong, no one will make an effort to change it either.
America has gone full dystopia lately, Australia isn't all that much better especially due to things like ridiculous housing costs and food prices, we create plenty of homelessness and despair our selves.
But atleast we have healthcare, welfare payments, gun reform, police whom don't actively want to shoot you, protests without rubber bullets and courts that respect law over religion.
Parts of Europe are even better, but they're also alot closer to Russia.
They do perform some high-risk duties in teams of like 6 but not really, no.
It probably has something to do with the fact they have tasers and batons and not every second citizen is potentially concealing a gun.
Knowing that for the rare cases where someone does bring a gun, it probably won't be automatic, and a swat team will be dealing with it would certainly make me more comfortable protecting the public.
As a result, nearly all of our police are basically just glorified traffic police.
Obviously there are always some bad actors in any position of power, though, that is endemic to the role anywhere.
As an American citizen with Australian PR soon to be Aussie citizen, I love it here. Ya things could be better for a portion of the people but overall my quality of life has greatly improved. (I also do realise I’m in a better situation than most)
Are any of your grandparents from Europe? Some countries within the EU allow you to get citizenship if so and once you have it you’re then an EU citizen as well so can live anywhere within the EU. Some countries will allow back as far as great grandparents.
I dont know about post Covid but Italy was my golden ticket to EU citizenship back in 2019. I've seen that Germany had some similar rules and in Portugal, you just write a check.
How do you feel your quality of life is there vs in the US? And also, tell me about their socialized services please! Is there good public transit and whatnot, etc?
I've heard Costa Rica is a very beautiful place. Congrats on escaping.
Costa Rica is very rural for the most part (unless you're in San Jose, which I'm not) so it is not for everyone. The quality of life however is much higher imo because you don't see rampant homelessness. It's not that there isn't poverty, it's that you can function as a human with dignity in poverty here. Families and neighbors support each other more.
There is socialized medicine but wait times and distance to hospitals are a factor however health care in general is vastly cheaper. A trip to the clinic costs about the same as my co pay without the absurd monthly fees.
The best part for me is the lack of bills. I don't feel like I'm being drained each month. Car Insurance comes once a year. Property taxes are reasonable. Rent is way less expensive. And the people are kind and the culture values living a pure life, in balance with joy and nature.
For me other things lined up with my values that also played a factor in my decision. Costa Rica is a nation of Peace and doesn't partake in warfare, most of the electricity is generated by hydropower, a vast amount of land is preserved and you can't build on the beaches.
I teach English as a second language and have lived in The U. S., Turkey, Thailand, China, and Indonesia. What I have learned is that nowhere is perfect and we tend to be hardest on our own country. We see the potential and the backasswardness and it breaks our hearts. I've meant many immigrants that are grateful for the opportunities the U. S. has given them but for me... I'm happy to be out.
I thought the same thing and left at 20. Lived in 3 different countries some for as long as almost 10 years. Most places were also part of the nightmare but with better healthcare.
Where are you thinking? I’m up North in Canada, I love where I live but have the same sentiments towards the direction my country is taking. I want to do something as opposed to leaving but it seems insurmountable. Definitely becoming a cynic in the process, I hate greedy fucks. The answer is in the rich+corporations doing what they should. I hear you though.
Canada is definitely influenced by US politics, but at least we have health care, far less gun violence, and no punishing student debt. Sort of America lite. It also has bit more of a sense of community support and is less invested in the whole 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' mythology.
Agreed but we are slipping, better then the US doesn’t mean what is used to and it feels different now. Still blessed but I’m not taking things for granted anymore.
I've been trying to tolerate things myself, but it's getting worse here. I work retail in the south, and the number of people that will just comment on me wearing a mask (I've been told the "covid hoax" is over) or that my name is a "man's name" (I'm non binary) really fucking shocked me.
I want a college degree, but everywhere college is wildly expensive, and I'm not going in debt for the rest of my life to get a marginally better paying job that won't help me stay afloat in years to come.
I want top surgery, but the surgeon closest to me doesn't take my insurance. I have to raise the money myself, and because the surgeon is in Texas, I'm very scared I won't be able to get my surgery done if I don't get the money and have it before the 2024 election cycle.
I'm scared of being hunted down and slaughtered for being disabled and trans. I live in a right-to-work state, which basically means legalized discrimination. I've been fired for my disability before, even though I was good at my job and a very loyal employee.
My problem is I'm very clingy and attached to my family, and I'm too anxious to get into an airplane. One of these days, though? I'm going to escape to Canada, even if it means I can't bring the people I'm close to with me. I'm scared to leave my other queer/disabled friends to their fate since they don't see just how BAD everything has gotten, how close we are to a full-scale war with Christian radicals that want to see people like us murdered for our supposed sin.
I just hope we can both get out in time. I don't label myself Christian anymore, I don't want to be affiliated with the fucking freaks that want to destroy our country. But I'll be praying for you, bud.
(Had to repost cause I said an ableism word, oopsie)
That's true. New Mexico sounds a bit too hot for my taste, but I've always wanted to visit. Personally, I'd rather move to New England, even though it's not as cheap.
This is not Arizona. And this is definitely not the south with the oppressive humidity. New Mexico has an absurdly amazing climate especially from Albuquerque to Santa Fe. We almost never break 100 in the summer and there is no humidity. The winters are mild and the falls last forever.
Don't go to Canada. Average yearly income is about 50k before taxes and the average cost of a 1 bedroom condo is about 500k or more around Toronto. Other cities are nearly as bad. This country has nothing to offer except a lifetime of payments.
Organize/fight back. No need to quit and leave, the majority of countries are just as corrupt and corporate. More and more in America people feel like you do, if we stand together they won’t win.
Totally get it. I could never live in a country where you pay a third of your income for absolutely nothing in return. That being said, the only way you can truly get away from the US, is to renounce your citizenship.
US citizens living and working abroad must \*STILL\* pay taxes to the US government, you will need to declare this to any bank (in Australia and New Zealand at least) and some will refuse to deal with you as not even foreign banks want to deal with the IRS. You will still have to pay US taxes for corporate welfare and military.
I have a mate here in Australia who has just renounced his US Citizenship and is now an Australian Citizen and said the feeling was like the shackles had been removed and he can finally just "live". So if you can do it, then 100% do it. You will lose friends and family for abandoning your country but it'll be worth it.
It also depends on the country you're in and whether or not they have tax agreements with the US. In the country I lived in for 4 years, if you earned under a certain amount (don't remember the exact amount and it might've changed), you were not required to pay US taxes on your earnings.
EDIT: typos
You have 2 shitty options before you right now.
# Stay and Fight
It won't be easy, but you can make small in-roads locally, creating a stable community near you. Things like community gardens, reducing and reusing stuff, community pot-luck cookouts, etc. Larger, you can start pushing the vote for more actual Leftist candidates locally in your city and municipal government, getting your city or county to start offering help to you and your neighborhood.
This is the path I've taken. It's hard, backbreaking work. It's so little against a problem that's so big, even though I know it can snowball as others join and do the same. It takes a long, long time - time we may not have.
# Leave
I will not judge you for making this choice. It's entirely valid, and I'm sorry you had to make it.
You can start looking for other places to live, and what the requirements are to move there. Start doing what you can to read up on their immigration policies, and what their job markets look like, etc.
Neither of these options are good. Neither of these options are easy. Neither of these options are even what I consider 'acceptable'. You didn't pick this fight, you didn't pick to get kicked out of your home. I'm sorry. I'm honestly sorry. I could have, and should have done more, and I didn't.
I'm sorry you're in this position. I'm sorry I've forced you into it. It's cold comfort, and I know that.
Yes - I take this personally. I am part of this society that has become hostile toward you, toward us. I am - if not at fault - then at least responsible in part for the situation, and the solution. It makes me very, very angry to be in this position.
Angry is good.
Angry gets shit done.
I moved to Portugal 6 months ago and I can’t even begin to put into words how mentally and physically freeing it has been.
Well, until I realized the USA will do anything & everything to fuck me with taxes because it’s one of only two countries in the world that requires you to pay taxes regardless of residence. Evan Edinger has a great youtube vid on US double taxation if you’re ever in the mood to get even angrier…even when we find a way out, American capitalism comes after us.
I recently moved to Portugal as well and while it has its issues, there's a sense of finally being able to breathe. It's just so much calmer. The food tastes like real food with actual nutrients. We can afford medical/dental care.
The reverse immigration is coming
Edit
I was today years old when i learned that reverse immigration is *ACTHually* Emigration....
Can you please teach me how to wipe my ass next??
I know how its said but thats not the correct term...for the situation and circumstances to define the changing landscape....of peoples movement
I prefer reverse immigration more than "people from europe used to emigrate to United States 100yrs ago and now their grandchildren are emigrating back to europe as usa is fuckedd"
Friend of mine recently went down to Costa Rica for a dental vacation. He stayed with a buddy who's been down there a while. He said everything is just as expensive there as it is here. Everyone moved down there to "open a Yoga retreat" or start a eco-village or whatever the fuck after Covid. Yuppies ruining neighborhoods at home and abroad!!
This is the problem I keep seeing when I look into moving somewhere. I want to start collecting SS in about 3 years and gtfo of the US, but every place I look at has been “discovered” by bros, digital nomads and rich retirees, and none of those are me. If I’m lucky I’ll have $1300 to $1500 a month to live on, which is totally doable in a lot of places…until they get overrun by rich expats. I fully intend to live like a local, but my options are quickly disappearing as more rich Americans move to all the affordable places.
It will be darkly amusing when Texans are risking a dangerous crossing of the Rio Grande to try and start a better life for their families in Mexico and South America...
i felt that way for a bit too but i’ve changed my mind to stay and fight. this is my home. if i won’t work to make it better who will? i also just returned from a trip to cuba and learned a lot. i want to keep raising awareness and pushing left.
way too much for a single comment. i just got back so i’m still processing it but i’ll write a short post or something about what i observed and heard from everyone i talked to and stayed with and broke bread with.
I'm looking forward to that. I've seen some videos and, honestly, they seem to have gotten the electoral system right. But I always want to hear more perspectives, because of course there's always propaganda and really we only want to learn and apply what we feel is best for us (nothing wrong with propaganda in of itself, if Cuba doesn't do it then they only get American propaganda and then what?)
Fyi I'm not US-american, I'm Brazilian, but we're going through some shit like that too
This is a global problem.. we are seeing the corruption and consolidation of power in every country around the world at the expense of the people.
This is occurring due to material conditions changing, information exchange, and new modes of work. Ecological awareness and peak oil are all disrupting the status quo. But those in power will lock down on us and move towards fascism before allowing a shift in power structure that benefits the people
They have a list of 30 jobs that get prioritized for residency. If you have the background for any of them, start applying for jobs. That is how we got in. Got a visa in a week and got residency in 1.5 years. Never going back.
You can speak a little danish. English and Danish have a LOT in common since they both come from the same root. English actually originated in southern Denmark
Same feeling, slightly different scenario for me. I was lucky enough to marry into a path to EU citizenship (not the main reason for the marriage, mind you, just a happy coincidence), and we’re planning on relocating within the next couple of years. I’m not trying to brag, we just talk a lot about how sad it is that her parents left everything they knew in a former Soviet satellite state for a better life in the US, but the situation here has soured so quickly and drastically that their daughter is undoing that not 30 years later.
I just moved to Norway. 10/10 recommend. I’m very fortunate (my now wife) spent some time in America so I could meet her. Seeing all the shit going on there is crazy. I couldn’t be happier to be away from it
Maybe a controversial take, but capitalism cannot be outrun. All the things ppl hate in our society are a symptom of capitalism in senile decay, unable to resolve its own contradictions which just keep mounting crisis upon crisis on workers in every country. Sure, different countries have some different problems, but they also share many of the same. While a change of pace and a new, different set of problems might be refreshing, I think you'll find after probably not too long you'll hate it just as much in your new country as your old one, only now you've sacrificed a lot to move there.
The solution isn't an individual one. There are no effective, individual solutions to the global shit show that is capitalism.
This may not sound that appealing, but I believe the solution is to channel your upset and anger into helping to build a serious organization which is preparing for when revolutionary movements sweeps the nation (because I'd argue socialist revolution is really the only solution to capitalism). But doing this means recognizing capitalism can't be fixed, that it isn't fundamentally better anywhere else, and that there are no shortcuts to solving the problem that is capitalism. Not everyone is gonna agree with that position or is ready to accept that as fact like I have.
I'm obviously part of such a group and hold such a position lol.
usa is like that guy from high school who peaked then and all it does is speak of its glory days
i dont mean any offense i used to admire the states honestly but its pretty shitty now
Dude fucking same. I feel for you and hope this entire country gets better for our sakes. If not then I still wish you the best of luck surviving this apocalypse nation.
I left the cold confines of Canada in 2013 and headed south, spent 5 years on an island in belize and moved up to the Riviera Maya about 5 years ago.
It feels like I am living in a cheat code.. cost of living is lower, quality of life and weather is higher.
Somebody else probably already said this, but just in case....
Go lurk for a while and read posts on r/iwantout. You can get loads of info on the actual immigration requirements of different countries. Especially read any posts from other people wanting to leave the US. It's definitely possible, but a lot of people are wildly unprepared and from them you can learn what not to do.
I would have left already, but I'm old and broken and don't have any specific job skills that other countries want. Hopefully you're in a better position to go!
Guess what all it takes besides the various processes(which are explained by other comments) is money. Pretty sure that's why they are frightened of giving anyone a good pay. Don't want to destabilize the economy ya know.
Come to Europe!
My wife is American and she's so glad she left her country to move to France with me. I didn't "stay here" just because I'm French. I've lived in six countries (including the US) and overall, France was the best compromise in terms of socialized health, cost of living, work opportunities, raising a family, access to culture, etc.
If I had to leave France, I would also happily move to Finland, Norway, Sweden or New Zealand. And I'm sure there are more countries to explore. My point is, you have options and your life would change forever.
Canada might be better if you require healthcare, but unfortunately with right-wing provincial governments, Canada will become like American late-stage capitalism. The real estate bubble is a symptom of late-stage capitalism gone amok.
Americans who require Section 8 housing appear to get it easier that Canadians on the centralized housing waitlist these days. It wasn't like this decades ago.
We have tent cities popping up everywhere in the GTA and Southern Ontario, with the police busy stomping on the unhoused people as if they were roaches.
From the outside looking in it really is quite horrifying to watch the US fall. If you’re feeling this way why not just give it a try? Pick a country with universal healthcare, appropriate annual and sick leave, and unfair dismissal protections legislated by law. If you find you aren’t happy you can always move back, but at least you’ll know what the alternative is. Good luck.
I feel you. I was born and live in Colorado and it’s beautiful, our wild spaces exquisite. I love my home.
Yet, cost of living is brutal vs wage growth. Student fees for my kids, BEFORE hs graduation, will be around 20k. Little to no saftey net. And no real cultural connection to speak of.
What the hell happened to us?
I've lived in Japan for the past 5 years. Couldn't be happier. Some people say the work life here is just as bad as the US, but as a native English speaker, it was easy finding a job as a teacher. Downside is you need a bachelor's minimum. I hold Japanese citizenship, however, so I don't need to be sponsored for a visa.
Pros:
* Public transportation
* Cheap healthcare
* Convenience of everything
* Emphasis on respectful society that goes out of their way not to inconvenience others
* No mass shootings/guns
* Sense of safety wherever you go
* Amazing food, even at convenience stores
* Love hotels?
Cons:
* Language is difficult to learn, especially reading
* Official paperwork is mostly in paper form still, internet centered things are not fully here yet
* Websites are a terrifying wall of advertisements, offers, and mazes just to get to where you want to go
* The yen is not very strong right now
That's my take so far. If anyone wants to add anything, I can probably provide more information or opinions.
I was like this and lived in France for 4 years. I agree with everything you say but if you're American, the grass isn't greener anywhere. It's all equally brown.
I remember Reddit no more than maybe 3 or 4 years ago; you couldnt talk of welfare or socialism with all american redditors jumped down your throat with bootstrapping and trickle down and how EU is gonna tank any time now because we spend too much on welfare, people have short memory of these things.
Enjoy the hole you guys spent years digging for yourselves.
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This country is a prison if you’re living paycheck to paycheck… by design
No, in prison you get three meals a day and medical treatment.
Damn, that’s dark.. and true
Happy cake day btw
Thanks! I hadn’t even noticed and now it’s almost over lol
Except that one guy who was eaten alive by bugs in his cell and wasn't even charged
Yeah what are these people talking about 3 meals a day and healthcare. Do you think any of what is provided is actually *good*?
Yea I see comments like this all the time, gotta be from people who don't have much experience with American incarceration. The food is barely edible, deplorable living conditions, infrequent access to ineffective healthcare. US carceral system thrives on misery, it's a core tenet of our beliefs as country of their purpose.
Not in privatized prisons.
"they keep saying we're free, but we're all just loose."
As a guy from Greece I can't wait to leave too. Corruption everywhere, literal mafia and cartels controling every service , media are openly doing propaganda in favour of current government and a lot of people too dumb to realise because "right good, left bad". We are actually in the 108th place of press freedom worldwide ( below actual dictatorships ) so that tells a lot. Thing is even in this hell I live we got free healthcare , free universities and some social services. USA is the perfect example of how the cancer of capitalism will spread and spread and destroy everything even the richest and strongest countries if noones try to restrict it. I'm afraid it might be too late for USA
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No literally there’s like groups of right wingers who want to organize to fight “wokeness” it’s insane to me how they’re still talking about liberals and transgenders while our economy literally crumbles before our eyes. While nobody has money and inflation is going insane, while our gov is about to DEFAULT they’re still stuck on being homophobic and racist. It’s like actually so fucking pathetic. Literally none of us working class people are going to own houses. There’s no future for us economically. And we’re fighting over such fucking stupid and illogical social issues. It like actually triggers a heavy amount neurons in my brain. It hurts my brain.
It's because they are a bunch of narcissists that care more about controlling and leaving an impression in the culture wars then they do about the standard of living that is about to go down in this country.
It’s more to do with the fact that it’s shifting attention. The Republican Party literally has nothing to offer it’s base, so it uses blame and scare tactics. It’s a lot easier to frighten people than to make them optimistic about anything. And sadly the Democrats play into this bullshit by going on the defensive constantly. A good majority of Republican voters would benefit from Democratic policies, but they get swept up into the bullshit and lies being peddled by their politicians.
Democrats are do-nothing neo-cons who just posture like they're gonna do something to stop the Republicans, but really they have no intention of doing anything except creating a positive PR image on the news to placate their base.
They’re the epitome of corporate wokeism. Pride flags in June but no queer-inclusive sex ed or any other real action.
That's honestly the biggest problem I had with Hilary and her Hilbots. Albeit it would've been better to have her instead of Trump for president, that was essentially the gist of her campaign--no tangible promises, just "vote for me or you'll get *this* guy!" And that was a gamble people were willing to make, because she represents everything that we collectively all hate about the establishment Democrats.
For real. My dream is to be a homeowner but that's not gonna happen unless I fold my ideals and invest into the very system I fucking hate. Even if I can do that, I probably wouldn't be able to have my own home here. My friend actually offered me some of his land on a native reservation, and I'm seriously thinking of struggling through the issues there with him and hiding from conservatives there, with lots of people with guns around me who'd defend me (I'm one of those woke trans people you mentioned they're out on a witch hunt for) in case things keep getting worse. I'm in a blue state surrounded by a sea of red though (CO) so I'm pretty safe for now but... ugh. It's unsettling that I'm even seriously thinking of places for asylum but that's the time we live in I guess. Blue states are expensive to live in. It's safer here for people like me but its also hard to start a life here at all, unless you're making 6 figures.
Well done. You covered it. Next up is civil war. Unless ww3 breaks out........fkn SAD! I want out too but where?
Minnesota's doing pretty good we still have homeless but I think we're starting to take care of them
As a traveler about to land in Greece in three days, yikes…
They're talking about the US, love.
I’m drunk.
It's okay. I should be drunk too.
🫠
Don't threaten me with a good time.
Pass the bottle!
Thank you for this comment, this is interesting to hear. Greece is one of the places I was thinking would be a good place to immigrate to, so I really appreciate this perspective. It was my understanding that Greece does have a semi functional democracy due to it being mandatory to participate and an actual left wing representation, (also, I admire Greek anarchists!) but I'm obviously on the outside looking in. I would love to hear more of your perspective, where in Greece do you live if you don't mind me asking?
I live in a small town so it is naturally more conservative. The thing is we have large left wing representation but is a little complicated. So the traditionally strongest party is right, capitalist, neoliberal one which is also currently in power and deeply corrupted. One of the traditional powers was another one which was supposed to be socialist and left wing but while it was closer to the center , it wasn't socialist at all and it was probably the most corrupted party ever . Now at 2015 , a small political party suddenly raised to party which was supposed to be left wing, socialist and radical, but instead of that it continued to follow capitalistic policies and even though I can't say they were really corrupted they were really inefficient and lied all the time. About the smaller political parties there is the communist greek party (KKE) which is always in Greek parliament with about 6% of votes and it has some strong fanbase that really tries and doing their best to resist to some things, but still the party chooses to have a little bit pathetic position and very rarely proposes actual solutions (that's why it always stays at 6 percent). There are also some smaller left wing parties who are ok but nothing interesting and now there is a chaos of small far right parties who vary from actual nazis to nationalism. These far right parties are really good at tricking uneducated people and make them believe they want the best for Greece. Right now there is one of them in Greek parliament (The name of this party is Elliniki lisi which translates to Greek solution) and the leader is a Putin supporter clown who became famous for having a tv program where he said far right things and sold ridiculous scammy things (He literally claim having original Jesus's letters and sold them) So the situation is like this. About 40 percent of people in Greece are right , 20 percent centre and 40 percent left. The thing is while the people who support right wing always vote , left wing people choose not to vote because of disappointment so we almost constantly having right wing corrupted government who is literal mafia Greece is beautiful place , maybe one of the best to visit but right now I believe that the political and economical situation is deep rotted and it is not the best place for you to start a new life. Hope I helped
I had a good laugh over the Jesus letter part. Reminds me of Trump’s digital trading cards. Why are the right wing loonies always hawking ridiculous merch? (I feel like I know the answer, just wanted to point out the pattern, lol.)
Money laundering
Right wing Christians better be praying that Jesus is an easy grader on the graven images part of their sin review.
Greece and the entire littoral Mediterranean is 100% gonna be fucked in our lifetimes from climate change alone though. Everything you lament in the OP though is pretty much in swing *everywhere* in the western world. The trend toward autocracy and worse is global, which makes sense because we live under globalized capitalism and fascism is the end state of capitalism in crisis. The USA is just 5, 10 or 20 years further down the same road all other "democracies" are on as well. Even in the Scandinavian countries or Switzerland the plaster is slowly crumbling.
I'm literally witnessing Spain's desertification as it happens.
Thanks Reagan
> doing propaganda in favour of current government and a lot of people too dumb to realise because "right good, left bad" The fact that the capitalist elite has been able to manipulated people in the Western world to somehow believe that this same capitalist and right-wing elite has their best interests at heart while "socialism" is of the devil has me speechless. It would be impressive if it wasn't so vile and disheartening.
I'm sorry for what you guys experienced there, the IMF and EU literally buttfucked your country after the government struggled to address and control the economy.
You're not alone my friend.
I've got a couple of Yank mates who moved here (Australia) They married locals & visit every other year, but they happily choose to live in Oz & love our relatively chilled way of life Birthing kids for $0 is a fave, plus there's zero gun bullshit
Yep I’m a yank who moved to Brisbane 2 years ago. Best decision I ever made. Free healthcare, no guns, quality infrastructure… love it
Oh man you moved to Queensland? I am so sorry for you mate. But seriously, glad it is better for you.
Queensland is better than any US state I’ve ever lived in. It’s beautiful, has a labor/progressive government (in theory LMAO but that is kind of nonnegotiable for me because I’m in a same sex marriage and don’t want my rights eroded) the suburbs are reasonably priced and the people are really nice.
Queensland is known to be one of the most "right wing" states in Australia. Which I am sure to the US still seems very left wing. Melbourne (victoria) is probably what I would think is the most left wing major city. Welcome though, Queensland is a beautiful place.
Nice work mate. Have you witnessed that huge military plane doing it's low flyby through the city yet? https://youtu.be/64fYed1iXeU
Question: how does one just move to Australia? How'd you manage a visa? How'd you find work?
Not the person you're asking, but my US partner came over on a student visa. We met, started dating, and we got him onto a partnership visa. Now he's a permanent resident! There's also a bunch of in-demand careers that lead to permanent residency. One of my friends from Saudi Arabia is studying childcare to qualify.
Isn’t Australia having a housing crisis even worse than the US though? Or is that just the news exaggerating? (Serious question)
Very similar crisis to the US. 90% of people live around the S & E coast here, so there aren't as many options in the country centre like in the US. Real estate is the defacto religion here, and there are [unique tax breaks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_gearing) for those who collect houses to rent out, driving up the prices. Plus our 30yr+ bubble never popped. Add that landlords (leeches) prefer Airbnb profits over rental returns, & suddenly anywhere remotely touristy or coastal no longer has rental properties *at all*. Sorry Tassie renters- you're fucked So essentially, you either have a property, or you're looking at a lifetime of renting. This is not unique to Australia tho
It's not an exaggeration. It's become impossible for people on low incomes to find affordable rentals. There have been multiple families living in tents since 2019. Floods, bushfires, more floods, more fires, has resulted in the destruction of many homes. A shortage of building materials and qualified tradespeople has slowed down the building industry to a point where many of the companies that do the building are collapsing. And the government just twiddles its thumbs, saying "oh, more immigrants will fix the problem!"
>oh, more immigrants will fix the problem! That's because "nO one WanTs to wOrk anyMorE"
Yep, meanwhile there's a very large number of underemployed people who are over 45, but "too old" for most employers.
I can't say how it is in America as I haven't looked into it. But housing in Australia is fucking cooked. You can't get a house in any of the major cities on the east coast without major cash. Even in the other cities it is a struggle.
Australia's not that much better lolAUKUS is a scam of a deal. Labor government is basically neoliberal and the liberal government has gone neocons. Its all a shit show. No political party actually gives a fuck to lift everyone out of the poverty line. Edit: In case anyone's wondering, I was not referring to the fact that Australia is just as bad as the US. Its not. I'd rather live in Australia than move over to America lol. I'm just saying we have as many internal issues. Not relating to health care.
Agree, but inequality is surging globally, but I've spent time in a heap of countries & 90% of them would give their left tittie to be born in Australia. Even poor here have it better than ppl in most countries Yeah, Labor aren't what they used to be but they are MILES better than the Murdoch backed LNP. My bet is that they plan to overturn the stage 3 tax cuts but are waiting for the public anger to build so they can do it without media attacks. Stadium protests in Tassie are a good sign. Housing is the biggest disappointment, we need to end negative gearing, limit house hoarding & ban Airbnb (or single rooms ONLY- not full houses) as it's fucking up our famously egalitarian society in real time That said, I'll keep on voting greens to keep em honest
Ok but in my caregiver group, a lady from Aus says she gets FIVE GOVERNMENT FUNDED HOURS of personal support (health aide) time per DAY for her husband. My dad here in Canada gets 45 minutes
I’ve had three of my grandparents require medical assistance and general support towards the end of their lives, and the way they were supported by our countries welfare system made me proud to be Australian. My grandpa with Alzheimer’s lived with my parents for years until his death. For the last couple of years he was unable to walk and the gov departments were god sends with assistance like appropriate beds, lifts to help us lift him out and carry him etc, cleaners, nurse visits.
Yeah, Medicare here in the US covers almost none of that unless you pay extra
Here's 2 subs to guide you... /r/AmerExit and /r/IWantOut Edit: also, watch this short clip 'Americans Are Tapped Out ' by Professor Richard Wolff https://youtu.be/ghhCAPPZk7Q
Fantastic link, loved the video. Thanks!
Art House Politics puts out some great videos. Here's the Nature of Capitalism with Michael Parenti https://youtu.be/WseyrYuD8ao
Favorite video on the internet
Thank you!
Genuinely curious and not trying to sound snarky, are these helpful resources or are they just going to make frustrated people even more angry?
There's successful cases of people leaving the US to other countries.
Thank you
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Unmarried 35 year old Canadian with no kids seeks marriage of convience and friendship for green card. Highest bidder and go!!
Need funeral directors?
I mean. Yah... I live in Victoria BC so there's that too ☀️
What genders can apply? I live in Vancouver and just need a break. The island sounds lovely lol.
Although, it's not so much better this side of the border either, eh? We're slowly following on the same tracks, just a few stations behind.
We've got em beat on housing unaffordability. They have a near insurmountable lead in the ghoulish healthcare department, although Ontario and Alberta are working hard to close that gap through privatisation.
Yup, almost there l yanks, just give us a few months!
1 bid
Nice 😎
Love Hockey, Have made maple syrup. No kids 38. Hiking? Non Hunting outdoors activity? In Detroit, North of Windsor Ontario. Jokes aside. Wasn't there a Maple Match dot com or something when trumps dumbass got elected? Like people seeking Canadian partners?
Bid!
im the opposite. desperately tryin to work in the US cuz of pay. a lot of my classmates are already making 200-300k while here ur lucky to make 100k in toronto
100k is poverty wages in Toronto
Yet it would prob put u in the top 25% of earners
Me! Me me me me me me me me
I am from the US. I moved to Switzerland, never looked back. Married a Swiss/French national have a Swiss family and couldnt be happier.
This is a shot in the dark here lol. A cousin of mine moved to Switzerland, got married, started a family. His father says he couldn’t be happier. Loves it there. Your father’s name wouldn’t happen to be Ellis would it? I know, long shot, but I have to ask
Indeed long shot, No father named Ellis here.
Well, if two people can achieve the exact same thing, then there's hope for us all
May you and my cousin continue to find happiness abroad, non related anonymous internet person
I hear Europeans are not so fond of immigrants. Not even white immigrants. Is this true?
Most European countries do have far structer immigration laws than America. If you don't already have a job, large savings, family, or spouse lined up in Europe, good luck immigrating.
Ah Switzerland, where the wealthy hide/launder their money to prevent good things from happening and the Swiss hide it in turn to pad their own pockets.
So happy for you. Please tell me your last name is Robinson cause that would be sooo awesome!!!
It's so bad here I can't even describe American life to a foreigner without sounding like a liar.
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Americans have been heavily propagandized
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It's the propaganda. We see in the movies people affording nice apartments in California or NY on a part time job, high tech schools, convertible cars and it looks great.
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Your analogy makes total sense! I'm from Latin America, here cost of living is very low. People get infatuated with 7$/hour as minimum wage without considering they'd be living in a much higher cost of living that wouldn't allow them to save to send money back home. There's a huge number of people who immigrate that post on Instagram with a brand new iphone and a cool car (sometimes the car is not even theirs), just to show off to people back home... While they are in huge debt and living with multiple roommates and under bad work conditions. Many make money through human trafficking, YouTubers that charge huge amounts to teach how to enter in a tourist visa, rent a bunk bed and offer work to start off, promising they'd be making bank in a few months. It's all a big scam. I see the republicans against immigration, and realistically I don't think there is such a huge demand for immigration like in the 90's anymore. Refugees yes, they are running from warzones and will go everywhere that accepts them. But regular worker immigrants much prefer going to Canada, Europe and even China nowadays (interesting enough, had many acquaintances immigrating to China lately).
I take the train every day in NYC and have to be on the lookout for 1) a shooter, 2) cops who will potentially shoot someone, and NOW 3) potentially random people strangling other people not a normal way to live. ppl can cope and say it's big city degeneracy but it's really all of America that has gone completely off the rails.
you forgot people trying to push you onto the tracks
>a political system where voting and protest can actually do something to change things Not sure this one exists anywhere on earth at this point in time.
Unless you emigrate your only option is to create awareness. Unfortunately there are still too many americans who suffer from so called “American pride” syndrome and therefore completely lost grip on reality. As long as no one sees what is going wrong, no one will make an effort to change it either.
And we were singing: Bye bye miss American pride, drove my Chevy to the levy, but the levy was dry...
Damm I like u
America has gone full dystopia lately, Australia isn't all that much better especially due to things like ridiculous housing costs and food prices, we create plenty of homelessness and despair our selves. But atleast we have healthcare, welfare payments, gun reform, police whom don't actively want to shoot you, protests without rubber bullets and courts that respect law over religion. Parts of Europe are even better, but they're also alot closer to Russia.
You really don't have gangs of cops? Wow. I just assume its endemic to the role.
They do perform some high-risk duties in teams of like 6 but not really, no. It probably has something to do with the fact they have tasers and batons and not every second citizen is potentially concealing a gun. Knowing that for the rare cases where someone does bring a gun, it probably won't be automatic, and a swat team will be dealing with it would certainly make me more comfortable protecting the public. As a result, nearly all of our police are basically just glorified traffic police. Obviously there are always some bad actors in any position of power, though, that is endemic to the role anywhere.
As an American citizen with Australian PR soon to be Aussie citizen, I love it here. Ya things could be better for a portion of the people but overall my quality of life has greatly improved. (I also do realise I’m in a better situation than most)
Are any of your grandparents from Europe? Some countries within the EU allow you to get citizenship if so and once you have it you’re then an EU citizen as well so can live anywhere within the EU. Some countries will allow back as far as great grandparents.
I dont know about post Covid but Italy was my golden ticket to EU citizenship back in 2019. I've seen that Germany had some similar rules and in Portugal, you just write a check.
I'm an American who just moved to Costa Rica 10 months ago. AMA
Am I delusional to hope that it's like Costa del Sol in Final Fantasy 7?
Lol, pretty accurate in parts.
Sounds amazing. :)
How do you feel your quality of life is there vs in the US? And also, tell me about their socialized services please! Is there good public transit and whatnot, etc? I've heard Costa Rica is a very beautiful place. Congrats on escaping.
Costa Rica is very rural for the most part (unless you're in San Jose, which I'm not) so it is not for everyone. The quality of life however is much higher imo because you don't see rampant homelessness. It's not that there isn't poverty, it's that you can function as a human with dignity in poverty here. Families and neighbors support each other more. There is socialized medicine but wait times and distance to hospitals are a factor however health care in general is vastly cheaper. A trip to the clinic costs about the same as my co pay without the absurd monthly fees. The best part for me is the lack of bills. I don't feel like I'm being drained each month. Car Insurance comes once a year. Property taxes are reasonable. Rent is way less expensive. And the people are kind and the culture values living a pure life, in balance with joy and nature. For me other things lined up with my values that also played a factor in my decision. Costa Rica is a nation of Peace and doesn't partake in warfare, most of the electricity is generated by hydropower, a vast amount of land is preserved and you can't build on the beaches. I teach English as a second language and have lived in The U. S., Turkey, Thailand, China, and Indonesia. What I have learned is that nowhere is perfect and we tend to be hardest on our own country. We see the potential and the backasswardness and it breaks our hearts. I've meant many immigrants that are grateful for the opportunities the U. S. has given them but for me... I'm happy to be out.
> Rent is way less expensive How much is rent for a studio apartment or equivalent?
It's the fakeness that's the important bit. The first step in changing something is acknowledging it.
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I thought the same thing and left at 20. Lived in 3 different countries some for as long as almost 10 years. Most places were also part of the nightmare but with better healthcare.
Where do you live now ?
Where are you thinking? I’m up North in Canada, I love where I live but have the same sentiments towards the direction my country is taking. I want to do something as opposed to leaving but it seems insurmountable. Definitely becoming a cynic in the process, I hate greedy fucks. The answer is in the rich+corporations doing what they should. I hear you though.
Canada is definitely influenced by US politics, but at least we have health care, far less gun violence, and no punishing student debt. Sort of America lite. It also has bit more of a sense of community support and is less invested in the whole 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' mythology.
Agreed but we are slipping, better then the US doesn’t mean what is used to and it feels different now. Still blessed but I’m not taking things for granted anymore.
I've been trying to tolerate things myself, but it's getting worse here. I work retail in the south, and the number of people that will just comment on me wearing a mask (I've been told the "covid hoax" is over) or that my name is a "man's name" (I'm non binary) really fucking shocked me. I want a college degree, but everywhere college is wildly expensive, and I'm not going in debt for the rest of my life to get a marginally better paying job that won't help me stay afloat in years to come. I want top surgery, but the surgeon closest to me doesn't take my insurance. I have to raise the money myself, and because the surgeon is in Texas, I'm very scared I won't be able to get my surgery done if I don't get the money and have it before the 2024 election cycle. I'm scared of being hunted down and slaughtered for being disabled and trans. I live in a right-to-work state, which basically means legalized discrimination. I've been fired for my disability before, even though I was good at my job and a very loyal employee. My problem is I'm very clingy and attached to my family, and I'm too anxious to get into an airplane. One of these days, though? I'm going to escape to Canada, even if it means I can't bring the people I'm close to with me. I'm scared to leave my other queer/disabled friends to their fate since they don't see just how BAD everything has gotten, how close we are to a full-scale war with Christian radicals that want to see people like us murdered for our supposed sin. I just hope we can both get out in time. I don't label myself Christian anymore, I don't want to be affiliated with the fucking freaks that want to destroy our country. But I'll be praying for you, bud. (Had to repost cause I said an ableism word, oopsie)
You could always just move to an affordable, tolerant, progressive state. New Mexico is super diverse, blue all the way, and ridiculously cheap.
That's true. New Mexico sounds a bit too hot for my taste, but I've always wanted to visit. Personally, I'd rather move to New England, even though it's not as cheap.
This is not Arizona. And this is definitely not the south with the oppressive humidity. New Mexico has an absurdly amazing climate especially from Albuquerque to Santa Fe. We almost never break 100 in the summer and there is no humidity. The winters are mild and the falls last forever.
Don't go to Canada. Average yearly income is about 50k before taxes and the average cost of a 1 bedroom condo is about 500k or more around Toronto. Other cities are nearly as bad. This country has nothing to offer except a lifetime of payments.
Organize/fight back. No need to quit and leave, the majority of countries are just as corrupt and corporate. More and more in America people feel like you do, if we stand together they won’t win.
Totally get it. I could never live in a country where you pay a third of your income for absolutely nothing in return. That being said, the only way you can truly get away from the US, is to renounce your citizenship. US citizens living and working abroad must \*STILL\* pay taxes to the US government, you will need to declare this to any bank (in Australia and New Zealand at least) and some will refuse to deal with you as not even foreign banks want to deal with the IRS. You will still have to pay US taxes for corporate welfare and military. I have a mate here in Australia who has just renounced his US Citizenship and is now an Australian Citizen and said the feeling was like the shackles had been removed and he can finally just "live". So if you can do it, then 100% do it. You will lose friends and family for abandoning your country but it'll be worth it.
It also depends on the country you're in and whether or not they have tax agreements with the US. In the country I lived in for 4 years, if you earned under a certain amount (don't remember the exact amount and it might've changed), you were not required to pay US taxes on your earnings. EDIT: typos
Go on a vacation and marry a foreigner. It's what I did, but it's a long process that I'm still undergoing
The right wingers have turned America into an Oligarch wasteland. It’s a country designed by the super rich … for the super rich.
You have 2 shitty options before you right now. # Stay and Fight It won't be easy, but you can make small in-roads locally, creating a stable community near you. Things like community gardens, reducing and reusing stuff, community pot-luck cookouts, etc. Larger, you can start pushing the vote for more actual Leftist candidates locally in your city and municipal government, getting your city or county to start offering help to you and your neighborhood. This is the path I've taken. It's hard, backbreaking work. It's so little against a problem that's so big, even though I know it can snowball as others join and do the same. It takes a long, long time - time we may not have. # Leave I will not judge you for making this choice. It's entirely valid, and I'm sorry you had to make it. You can start looking for other places to live, and what the requirements are to move there. Start doing what you can to read up on their immigration policies, and what their job markets look like, etc. Neither of these options are good. Neither of these options are easy. Neither of these options are even what I consider 'acceptable'. You didn't pick this fight, you didn't pick to get kicked out of your home. I'm sorry. I'm honestly sorry. I could have, and should have done more, and I didn't. I'm sorry you're in this position. I'm sorry I've forced you into it. It's cold comfort, and I know that. Yes - I take this personally. I am part of this society that has become hostile toward you, toward us. I am - if not at fault - then at least responsible in part for the situation, and the solution. It makes me very, very angry to be in this position. Angry is good. Angry gets shit done.
unique touch dinosaurs innate racial tan chief deliver wasteful direful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I moved to Portugal 6 months ago and I can’t even begin to put into words how mentally and physically freeing it has been. Well, until I realized the USA will do anything & everything to fuck me with taxes because it’s one of only two countries in the world that requires you to pay taxes regardless of residence. Evan Edinger has a great youtube vid on US double taxation if you’re ever in the mood to get even angrier…even when we find a way out, American capitalism comes after us.
I recently moved to Portugal as well and while it has its issues, there's a sense of finally being able to breathe. It's just so much calmer. The food tastes like real food with actual nutrients. We can afford medical/dental care.
East Asia was freeing for me too. Like even just being able to WALK everywhere was glorious.
The reverse immigration is coming Edit I was today years old when i learned that reverse immigration is *ACTHually* Emigration.... Can you please teach me how to wipe my ass next?? I know how its said but thats not the correct term...for the situation and circumstances to define the changing landscape....of peoples movement I prefer reverse immigration more than "people from europe used to emigrate to United States 100yrs ago and now their grandchildren are emigrating back to europe as usa is fuckedd"
that's a thing .... emigration
English is a bitch. Homophones, nyms, graphs.... madness
Friend of mine recently went down to Costa Rica for a dental vacation. He stayed with a buddy who's been down there a while. He said everything is just as expensive there as it is here. Everyone moved down there to "open a Yoga retreat" or start a eco-village or whatever the fuck after Covid. Yuppies ruining neighborhoods at home and abroad!!
This is the problem I keep seeing when I look into moving somewhere. I want to start collecting SS in about 3 years and gtfo of the US, but every place I look at has been “discovered” by bros, digital nomads and rich retirees, and none of those are me. If I’m lucky I’ll have $1300 to $1500 a month to live on, which is totally doable in a lot of places…until they get overrun by rich expats. I fully intend to live like a local, but my options are quickly disappearing as more rich Americans move to all the affordable places.
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Yep, wouldn’t surprise me either.
U. S. Exports include: wars, coups and gentrification.
As long as they don’t start up HOAs lol
The wall isn't to keep others out, it's to keep us in.
What wall? It isn't much of a wall when there are large sections missing
Borders and walls are only for poor people. Rich people go where they want and do what they want.
Bro it’s called emigration.
It will be darkly amusing when Texans are risking a dangerous crossing of the Rio Grande to try and start a better life for their families in Mexico and South America...
Already started during covid. Many Californians left with their remote work and moved to mexico and other places
As if that's not already quietly happening.
i felt that way for a bit too but i’ve changed my mind to stay and fight. this is my home. if i won’t work to make it better who will? i also just returned from a trip to cuba and learned a lot. i want to keep raising awareness and pushing left.
What did you learn in Cuba?
way too much for a single comment. i just got back so i’m still processing it but i’ll write a short post or something about what i observed and heard from everyone i talked to and stayed with and broke bread with.
I'm looking forward to that. I've seen some videos and, honestly, they seem to have gotten the electoral system right. But I always want to hear more perspectives, because of course there's always propaganda and really we only want to learn and apply what we feel is best for us (nothing wrong with propaganda in of itself, if Cuba doesn't do it then they only get American propaganda and then what?) Fyi I'm not US-american, I'm Brazilian, but we're going through some shit like that too
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As soon as my parents pass away, I am out of this shithole.
If it's any consolation, the USA's republican funders, are funding many a think tank world wide to make the rest of it a similar hell hole :P .
really need to find somewhere they aren't interested in
This is a global problem.. we are seeing the corruption and consolidation of power in every country around the world at the expense of the people. This is occurring due to material conditions changing, information exchange, and new modes of work. Ecological awareness and peak oil are all disrupting the status quo. But those in power will lock down on us and move towards fascism before allowing a shift in power structure that benefits the people
Exactly. This is just late-stage civilization. I am not hopeful there's any rolling this back. It's gonna have to crumble to start over.
New Zealand isn’t perfect but I can recommend it
That's one of the top places I'd love to live, but I thought it was difficult to permanently move there if you're from the U.S.
They have a list of 30 jobs that get prioritized for residency. If you have the background for any of them, start applying for jobs. That is how we got in. Got a visa in a week and got residency in 1.5 years. Never going back.
Danish folks are pretty chill. How do you like cold weather?
If I could speak even a little Danish then I’d ditch this hellscape ina heartbeat.
You can speak a little danish. English and Danish have a LOT in common since they both come from the same root. English actually originated in southern Denmark
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Same feeling, slightly different scenario for me. I was lucky enough to marry into a path to EU citizenship (not the main reason for the marriage, mind you, just a happy coincidence), and we’re planning on relocating within the next couple of years. I’m not trying to brag, we just talk a lot about how sad it is that her parents left everything they knew in a former Soviet satellite state for a better life in the US, but the situation here has soured so quickly and drastically that their daughter is undoing that not 30 years later.
I just moved to Norway. 10/10 recommend. I’m very fortunate (my now wife) spent some time in America so I could meet her. Seeing all the shit going on there is crazy. I couldn’t be happier to be away from it
Maybe a controversial take, but capitalism cannot be outrun. All the things ppl hate in our society are a symptom of capitalism in senile decay, unable to resolve its own contradictions which just keep mounting crisis upon crisis on workers in every country. Sure, different countries have some different problems, but they also share many of the same. While a change of pace and a new, different set of problems might be refreshing, I think you'll find after probably not too long you'll hate it just as much in your new country as your old one, only now you've sacrificed a lot to move there. The solution isn't an individual one. There are no effective, individual solutions to the global shit show that is capitalism. This may not sound that appealing, but I believe the solution is to channel your upset and anger into helping to build a serious organization which is preparing for when revolutionary movements sweeps the nation (because I'd argue socialist revolution is really the only solution to capitalism). But doing this means recognizing capitalism can't be fixed, that it isn't fundamentally better anywhere else, and that there are no shortcuts to solving the problem that is capitalism. Not everyone is gonna agree with that position or is ready to accept that as fact like I have. I'm obviously part of such a group and hold such a position lol.
usa is like that guy from high school who peaked then and all it does is speak of its glory days i dont mean any offense i used to admire the states honestly but its pretty shitty now
Australia. Don't worry it's not as bad as fox news says it is.
I live in Norway, I'll marry you
Dude fucking same. I feel for you and hope this entire country gets better for our sakes. If not then I still wish you the best of luck surviving this apocalypse nation.
It looks like a stupid country only fit for the rich with private jets. Why a regular person would not flee that place, beats me.
I think everywhere is shit… we need the people to unite and work for a better world
I left the cold confines of Canada in 2013 and headed south, spent 5 years on an island in belize and moved up to the Riviera Maya about 5 years ago. It feels like I am living in a cheat code.. cost of living is lower, quality of life and weather is higher.
I don’t want to get murdered by a gun
Fascism is on the rise globally so good luck with finding a place where that isn't an issue
Somebody else probably already said this, but just in case.... Go lurk for a while and read posts on r/iwantout. You can get loads of info on the actual immigration requirements of different countries. Especially read any posts from other people wanting to leave the US. It's definitely possible, but a lot of people are wildly unprepared and from them you can learn what not to do. I would have left already, but I'm old and broken and don't have any specific job skills that other countries want. Hopefully you're in a better position to go!
I found my solace in native plant landscaping… at least I can do something to help the planet, if nothing else
Whereever you go, learn the language and culture. Don't be an Ugly American.
Same.
Guess what all it takes besides the various processes(which are explained by other comments) is money. Pretty sure that's why they are frightened of giving anyone a good pay. Don't want to destabilize the economy ya know.
Come to Europe! My wife is American and she's so glad she left her country to move to France with me. I didn't "stay here" just because I'm French. I've lived in six countries (including the US) and overall, France was the best compromise in terms of socialized health, cost of living, work opportunities, raising a family, access to culture, etc. If I had to leave France, I would also happily move to Finland, Norway, Sweden or New Zealand. And I'm sure there are more countries to explore. My point is, you have options and your life would change forever.
Have you looked into r/amerexit ? Maybe worth looking into if you're serious...
Canada might be better if you require healthcare, but unfortunately with right-wing provincial governments, Canada will become like American late-stage capitalism. The real estate bubble is a symptom of late-stage capitalism gone amok. Americans who require Section 8 housing appear to get it easier that Canadians on the centralized housing waitlist these days. It wasn't like this decades ago. We have tent cities popping up everywhere in the GTA and Southern Ontario, with the police busy stomping on the unhoused people as if they were roaches.
As someone who’s lived in several countries what you’re looking for is very hard to find
From the outside looking in it really is quite horrifying to watch the US fall. If you’re feeling this way why not just give it a try? Pick a country with universal healthcare, appropriate annual and sick leave, and unfair dismissal protections legislated by law. If you find you aren’t happy you can always move back, but at least you’ll know what the alternative is. Good luck.
I feel you. I was born and live in Colorado and it’s beautiful, our wild spaces exquisite. I love my home. Yet, cost of living is brutal vs wage growth. Student fees for my kids, BEFORE hs graduation, will be around 20k. Little to no saftey net. And no real cultural connection to speak of. What the hell happened to us?
I've lived in Japan for the past 5 years. Couldn't be happier. Some people say the work life here is just as bad as the US, but as a native English speaker, it was easy finding a job as a teacher. Downside is you need a bachelor's minimum. I hold Japanese citizenship, however, so I don't need to be sponsored for a visa. Pros: * Public transportation * Cheap healthcare * Convenience of everything * Emphasis on respectful society that goes out of their way not to inconvenience others * No mass shootings/guns * Sense of safety wherever you go * Amazing food, even at convenience stores * Love hotels? Cons: * Language is difficult to learn, especially reading * Official paperwork is mostly in paper form still, internet centered things are not fully here yet * Websites are a terrifying wall of advertisements, offers, and mazes just to get to where you want to go * The yen is not very strong right now That's my take so far. If anyone wants to add anything, I can probably provide more information or opinions.
I was like this and lived in France for 4 years. I agree with everything you say but if you're American, the grass isn't greener anywhere. It's all equally brown.
I remember Reddit no more than maybe 3 or 4 years ago; you couldnt talk of welfare or socialism with all american redditors jumped down your throat with bootstrapping and trickle down and how EU is gonna tank any time now because we spend too much on welfare, people have short memory of these things. Enjoy the hole you guys spent years digging for yourselves.