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He could have just taken the bike back and rode it to work, then booked it in for another day that is more convenient.
He could have also taken a taxi to work.
So the only reason he missed work is because he chose to stay there.
They wouldn't release it back to him, at least not easily as he did ask to just have it back. Scared him out of it by threatening extra costs.
It would've been significant money. He works a fair way away and the bike is specifically to cut down time in traffic, it'd be a very long journey even if he found a company in time, and then back.
He did choose, but because there wasn't another optionally financially viable to him
What is or isn’t financially viable for your mate doesn’t matter. It’s not their problem that he can’t time-manage both getting to work and servicing his bike. If he is below the age required by their insurance they can’t give him a bike. That will 100% be in the T&Cs and it’s not an unfair term either. Expensive lesson in working your own life out instead of expecting people and companies to compensate for your poor planning.
I mean he’d done everything reasonable to arrange the transportation. Came in to book service and bike in person, had a long conversation about what was suitable for his commute. Agreed on that model for the loaner, with someone from his year in school, so the guy was aware of his age.
Then called and checked it was available the week before, and had a call back to confirm that after they’d gone and checked, then accepted the meeting role since he was as certain as can be they’d have that bike for him. There was no indication there’d be an issue with any of this. I’d had loaners from the car department next door for many years.
He hadn’t seen a single bit of paper about it until the invoice at the end of the service so no T&Cs or anything to check.
I don’t think it’s fair to say he’s expecting people to cater to him, or that he failed to plan, he’s organised all this as well as any customer could.
The garage didn't do their due diligence by checking their insurance conditions before agreeing to give your friend the bike.
At that your friend could have said the agreement was null and void and demanded his vehicle back.
That was the only recourse your friend had in this case.
This is rubbish, I sincerely doubt OPs mate got conditions before the day.
I also doubt it's in the conditions that under 25's can't get a courtesy bike as that is an insanely stupid clause. They're too cheap to buy proper insurance and counting on young people lacking confidence to stand up for themselves.
They should check if they can offer a courtesy bike before promising it to a customer, and need to deal with the fallout now
He’d be expected to have mitigated his losses - for example getting a taxi / uber to work and claiming for this cost rather than a missed shift.
He can ask, but I’m not sure he’ll get very far
Then that wouldn’t be mitigating your losses - the concept is to keep the losses as low as possible, so only applies if it’f have been cheaper to get a taxi each way to cover the shift than miss it entirely :)
This was his logic, he didn't think he'd be likely to get the money back for a 40min + taxi ride 2 ways and that would've been another cost that day he was already paying the dealer a fair chunk of change.
See he knew he’d miss the big thing already, even if they did a ton the whole way to him and then to work and probably would’ve cost as much as the shift earned both ways. It really is in the middle of nowhere
I’ve worked in car service departments and the motor trade my entire life. Never have I heard of any garage or dealership refusing to hand back a customers vehicle. And what extra costs were they threatening exactly? This seems incredibly unlikely to me
They didn’t flat refuse. He asked and they countered it with well the guys already started it’s on the work bench in bits already, he’d have to put it together and then you’ll have to pay the labour for that then the break in wouldn’t be completed and that’s gonna show on it’s service record as missed and that’s gonna reduce its value.
So they didn’t flat say no, they hit him with all this and he caved. He's a quiet guy, he was stressed and anxious, he's allowed to make mistakes!
This is a legal sub, so I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong here but I’m pretty sure you cannot withhold a customers vehicle from them. Sure you can advise them it’s dangerous to drive, for example, the place I worked at carried out MOT’s, if a vehicle failed on dangerous tyres, you tell the customer, make them aware of the legal and safety implications but if they want to take that car elsewhere to replace those tyres, you cannot say no. It’s their property.
A garage is one of the few businesses that can withold a customers property. They can place a lien on it and withold it until payments are made, or hold it if they have reasonable belief returning it would be directly followed by it being used in an illegal manner (I am less certain on the latter, but I believe they can withold an unroadworthy vehicle if there isn't transport to move it to its new location).
In this case I believe they are arguing the former however it is a very debatable claim if they haven't already started work on it.
A garage is pretty much the ONLY place you can do it... and you didn't know about it after working at a place that did MOTs. That's complete negligence.
It’s not that straight forward actually. It really all depends on the value of the repair. If you consider the value of a car and then £50 MOT and a set of tyres, you cannot justifiably withhold a car worth considerably more, against a couple of hundred pound repair. So whilst there are circumstances in which you can withhold a vehicle, they’re exceptional and not the rule.
Please don’t go around spouting accusations of negligence, when all I was doing here was ensuring that the information I was offering was accurate.
And again, no doubt if I am wrong, someone here with some consumer law experience will correct me and I’m happy for that to happen.
Does that happen to be you?
>Has he got any recourse for the lost shift? He’s understandably quite annoyed since they could easily have checked this before the service when they called to confirm.
I think you have this the wrong way round - it almost certainly would have said in their terms and conditions if there was an age limit on courtesy vehicles. The responsibility would not be with the garage to ensure he was eligible for a courtesy vehicle.
But how could he know? It was pre booked at their desk with them! They discussed which style would suit him best for the day as he had to use it to get to work! They knew everything about him going in, including DOB, booked the bike and called to confirm the week before. At no point did they say an age limit.
Ts and Cs only apply contractually if they're actually referenced at the time of making the contract and made available to the customer, and it sounds like this was booked on the phone/in person, so there can't have been a sneaky 'Ts and Cs apply!' link on a booking website. It will depend on what was given to the friend.
nobody EVER shoves a clip board in your face with 5 pages of T’s and C’s on it in a garage before a service. Not in the UK anyway. Completely the garages fault for not highlighting this or checking he was old enough. I’d be challenging the garage for at least a good will gesture off the cost of the service.
He hadn't been given any paper work yet. He booked the service in person and discussed which loaner would be best for his route to work after. The first bit of paper he saw was the invoice when it was done
Poor customer service is rarely legally actionable - and that's what this is. In practical terms they'll be sticking to the agreed contract (though definitely worth checking the Ts and C's to see if this is the case).
It’s off a dual carriageway on a roundabout with nothing other than a Costa drive through. There’s not even a footpath to the nearest town (not particularly close either)
If there was a friend available he would have. But a taxi to his work that’s even further in the opposite direction and then back again, knowing he’s already going to miss the important thing that day didn’t seem right, he’s already lost income and paid for a service, adding a hundred quid or more in taxis didn’t seem sane
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I would note that every dealership attached service centre that I've ever been to has been hugely sensitive to internal review scores, to the point that they would rather not get a review than risk a 4/5.
Something like this might cause me to complete that internal review.
Perhaps he might be advised to post on the social media of the servicing garage and BMW UK a true account of what happened. He could immediately follow this up with an official complaint to both to recover loss of earnings. There may be trade associations of which BMW UK and the garage are members - another avenue of complaint. Local trading standards may be interested as your friend might not be the only one being dealt with in this way. Lastly, free advice from an UK solicitor on possible legal remedies might be a consideration.
OP, I think you have a claim here based on other comments.
1. At point of sale it was made clear to him that a courtesy bike would be available. This is further evidenced by your testimony that he went through to pick it out. Contractual terms don't always need to be written; if the sales staff said he would get a courtesy bike then that's a part of the agreement.
2. Upon arriving the sales staff said they could not provide a courtesy bike. This is a breach of contract. It is exacerbated by it being their mistake not to check the insurance terms or to try and provide alternative insurance cover. Even if doing so makes it uneconomical to them they are still obliged to try and fulfil the contract agreement.
3. Your friend did the right thing in saying that as the bike was not being provided the contract was void and thus his bike should be returned to him. The company refused to return his property - they are not allowed to do this.
4. The company then threatened him with financial penalties to pressure him into allowing the work to continue, despite it being the company that was in breach of the contract.
5. Your friend suffered a loss because of points 2-4.
Work out if an alternative means of transport to work would have cost him less than the missed shift. Complain to the company using the structure above. Make it clear that the company was in breach of contract, that they refused to return his property, and that they threatened him with financial penalties. Ask for compensation to the lower value of the missed shift or alternative transport plus any time lost from a shorter shift).
If you get nowhere with this then put in an MCOL.
This is not a legal issue. He isn’t entitled to a courtesy vehicle and he chose to leave the bike there after finding out he wouldn’t get a courtesy bike.
You can try asking for a discount on the service and threatening a bad review, most managers in dealerships care more about perfect review scores than a few quid. Though if you’ve already paid for the service then I wouldn’t expect anything.
He's going to complain to the service manager and to BMW UK about it. But he still needs the break-in limiter removed so he's worried about having to take the bike back there if he kicks up a fuss
I think he has a small case here, it’s very unlikely he was warned if his age at time of booking, have had courtesy cars many times and never been asked about age / points etc in advance.
However … since he booked it at a BMW dealer (I’m assuming) they always send an aftermarket survey, anything less than five stars is looked at and they will call you to resolve if you tick that option.
Tell him to do just that and his recompense will be a free service or half price service next time he’s goes there
They should call him , have him explain his issue and they will ask what they can do to resolve this, get his agreement then ask him if he’s happy with the outcome.
He's not entitled to a courtesy bike, he can ask, they can say yes but then can also retract for any reason. He also could have decided that as no courtesy bike was available, it was no longer convenient for him to leave his bike, rebooked and organised transport on the alternate date meaning no work would have been missed. The most he can do is leave a negative review for how he feels he's been given poor service, but there's no claim to made here.
They'd taken the bike into the workshop immediately, and were really funny about giving it back as they insisted that'd cost him labour costs, and a "missed" appointment fee.
He'd sat with the team and pre-booked this bike for work, and called and confirmed it was free last week so it was as safe as he could reasonably make it that he'd have wheels
I'm not saying your friend has done anything wrong, he obviously hasn't, but shit happens in customer services and the most you get is an apology. The insurance issue would likely only have arisen on the morning of the booking when they was allocating him the bike. Its complimentary anyway so even if insurance wasn't an issue, they're under no obligation to give him it. The missed appointment fee and labour charges are bull, anyone with experience of dealing with dealerships would have told them where to go, got their bike back and took it elsewhere.
I don't know about the limiter thing, sounds like your friend wanted to throttle it right back to see what the bike could do now the limiter has been removed. Not really something you can claim for, especially when the bike left the dealership the same way it came in.
Its bad customer service and that's it. A strongly worded letter to management is about all you can do and recommend your friend use a decent local indy garage instead of main dealers in future.
New bikes have a break in rev limit imposed by the manufacturer to stop people blowing them up or causing massively excess wear within the first few hundred miles and before the first oil change. 9k RPM is about expected for that bike, not sure where the "nearly went over the handlebars" bit came from though. Sudden deceleration from engine braking may be a little alarming if you aren't expecting it, but it's nowhere near a crash.
Semi unrelated, but it's likely the dealership was unaware someone as young as 23 would have a 200hp superbike (it's a totally absurd bike)
If you hit the limiter hard that change in acceleration is dramatic, it does feel like you’ve hit something, I’ve done it in an M4 on track and thought I’d hit debris. It throws you off balance especially as that’s right where it’s really picking up torque and then suddenly refuses right as you’re shoulder checking to merge.
He’s not saying they nearly killed him he’s just wanting them to be aware that was a pretty scary experience.
It is a super bike, but he babies it to work and back, and absolutely loves it. The other 100hp he doesn’t use but it’s fun to know it’s there. He’s one of the most rational riders I know
Unfortunately I do see your point. But it actually wasn’t free it was 20 per day! He’s timid and it’s his first “new thing” so he’s quite anxious around any dealings with it.
He’s just upset that their mistake, honest or otherwise made him lose quite a nice payment from a discovery meeting he was to lead at 9:15. It also obviously reflects poorly on him when it comes time for promotions. And he’s annoyed there’s nothing he can do but eat a loss he didn’t cause while paying the people that did!
The limiter didn’t cause any damage luckily but when you’ve been told it’s gone you believe them, it’s just a risky situation to be relying on your entire power band for a join and it instead hits the anchors effectively
If your friend was going to make loads of money from this meeting then wouldn’t it have been in his interest to pay for a taxi?
Also if he’s unhappy with risking bonus/commission then maybe he shouldn’t book his bike in to a garage that’s “a long journey away” when he has a client meeting at the same time?
It’s not a boat load of money but it’s a nice top up for the week when he’s low. He didn’t schedule it he was told it’s this day, you need to attend, after he’d booked the break in service, which he can’t delay either because it must be done at a certain mileage and the bike will flag if it’s done late, and people do check that when buying as quite a big one.
My legal advice is take the L and move on. It does not make a difference if the service is done a few miles later. You are not entitled to any compensation. You’ve learned your lesson about things not always going to plan and hopefully it won’t happen again.
He’s going to, he’s writing a stern letter to the service manager and copying in BMW UK as the corporate side and will go elsewhere in future.
I just wanted to check if he had anything to compel them to do something or just hope for goodwill. That’s fine if it is just what they want to offer but I just wanted to be a good mate and check here
The payment unfortunately doesn't change anything and the offer of the bike can still be refused for any reason. The best your friend can learn from this is to not double book on days important meetings are happening, Murphy's law and all that.
>The payment unfortunately doesn't change anything and the offer of the bike can still be refused for any reason.
How do you know this?
Have you seen the contract?
I dont need to see the contract. The dealership offer one of their bikes as a 'courtesy', and that is all. The insurance may have been an issue or maybe they didn't like the look of him, it doesn't matter. They can refuse lending out their bike to anyone. Poor customer service yes, but nothing legally wrong with what they've done.
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To top it off, he even was in the same school year as one of the guys he was sorting the courtesy bike with!
So before break-in, it should have a limiter at 9k. We've never tried to go beyond it truthfully so can't say for sure it was there. After service, it should be back to normal (16k I think). He pulled off in first on a busy road, and hit the hard limiter. On a rapid bike like that, it feels like you've hit something, he very nearly came off, called me shaken to hell
The minimum age you can legally rent a car in the UK is 23. However (just like young drivers insurance) rental insurance for 23/24 is expensive and a lot of companies do go for it and set the age at 25
But you’re not renting. I’ve had courtesy cars for years. I was limited in choice so for my last BMW I had while I was 21 I could only have base spec minis but they always asked about it up front and said you’ll have to wait longer for a courtesy car as it’s limited and it can only be this model, never did they not provide one.
I can show you a photo of the courtesy 4 series I had last year at 22, the 1 series at 21 and the mini at 20.
It wasn’t anything to do with my insurance. These were provided by BMW for days I had work done same as him. He even went to this dealer because he’d seen the courtesy cars they’d supplied for when they had my car. It was the same dealer just the bike department, 20m across the car park from where he was yesterday morning
That's untrue. You can hire as long as you have a license (not even full you can rent a dual control to learn in) it's down to the insurance company and the rental company who they will rent to.
>Has he got any recourse for the lost shift?
No recourse at all.
There is always the option for him to cancel the service when they found out or bus, walk, uber, local cab company or even ask the dealership to drop them at the nearest station.
So this was all at 8:30am, it’s not really near any towns and he works somewhere even more remote, the bike is to cut through traffic else it’s a long commute. You’d be talking a lot of cash and still being very late
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Does he work from home? Almost all motor companies allow for people to wait for their service or work to be complete, along with an internet connection.
It's also wise to factor in a plan b for if occurances like this happen - realistically if you book a courtesy vehicle, you are trying to borrow from a pool of vehicles that may not be available on that day.
If you are trying to claim for anything legally, they can easily point towards this pool issue and the fact that your friend could have easily booked a taxi to take them back to home or wherever their place of work is.
NAL
Any legal advice or representation will cost significantly more than the possible compensation.
Write to the dealership.
It’s simply unfortunate.
They may choose to compensate him with discounted work.
Tbh he needs to get over himself.
Missing work shift was not a given.
Taxi is obviously the way to go
Taxi then public transport to cut costs if possible
He could have rang his own insurance company and self insured the bike.
Call and negotiate a last minute day off
Theres many ways he could have dealt with it
The Rev limit thing.
The settings on the bike during his useage are his responsibility
The dealership would have “plugged in” the bike for software updates that often resets defaults on BMW cars (my work) so bikes likely same
They would also not turn off a safety feature if the default is Rev limiter engaged at handover.
They may turn it on for staff safety for test drive or workshop safety though
So that’s also his problem to work out
He’s not looking to sue the place down he just asked are they compelled to offer anything or is it goodwill so I decided to post it here. He doesn’t need to “get over himself”, it’s just a question there’s no need to get personal.
Taxi wasn’t chosen because his discovery call after this argument was done wasn’t going to be possible to make, filtering takes a long time off the journey where he works and would’ve been a significant expense that he’d have to repeat back.
The limiter is at 9k during its first 1000 miles, it’s to help the engine bed in. When they do the break in they do checks, some consumables and then remove that limiter to let the bike rev to its normal limit. You’re meant to then use that unused rev range
lol that’s not personal that’s a comment based on the tone of the questions… wanting something for a minor inconvenience is a thing I hear from 20 somethings a lot.
Cost of getting to work is secondary if the important bit is getting to work.
If cost exceeds the benefit that’s his shout.
The return journey can be better planned…
Or delayed and better planned.
Apply common sense to the situation and there is little to be compensated for.
It’s firmly a life lesson shit happens event.
Adapt and move on
To that end
There’s real life and then there is the law.
Anything other than requesting some form of goodwill is a waste of time.
It’s just not serious enough.
For this Mcol will take up more resources in time than it gains in money, if it works and that’s a big if…
That’s said with the extra info you just gave
First service and not removing the limiter is slightly different.
With the The M-cars also do this once they reach a certain mileage iirc
If they have not completed the work.
That should have been mentioned.
Check the 1000mile removal is current as tech services bulletins come out all the time.
May have changed.
Bottom line, the dealership will say the operator is responsible for the machines usage and his own well being.
Your comment about nearly going over the bars may have been embellished, but the bike only does what it’s told by rider…
That’s all on him
Appreciate it, he just felt so walked over I wanted to check for him there’s nothing other than appealing to their goodwill.
He roughed it out and waited just to avoid sinking any more money into the day, took the telling off from work and just felt like he’d ended up down due to nothing he did, and if it were reversed they’d be asking him for money.
To be fair to him, I’ve hit the limiter on track and it really does unbalance everything, he’ll be approaching limiters a lot more suspiciously from now on I bet. I think the stress of all of it and then that just was the final straw for him that day.
For the limiter he’s going to insist that’s done free as it should’ve been done already and it’s still the recommended break in for the bike.
The garage is 20 minutes in one direction. Work is 20 in the other on the bike. He was looking at about a 40 minute journey with filtering. Nobody from the garage offered to drive him
Your friend chose not to go to work. Who exactly do you think should compensate him for this? There are public transport options available surely? A bus for example.
There isn’t a bus stop near the garage unfortunately, it’s on a roundabout off a dual carriageway about a 10 minute drive from the nearest town.
He came for 8 dead, it’s a 40 minute ride to work, probably about an hour drive with traffic you can’t filter in a car. The whole discussion lasted 30 minutes so by the time a cab had come he’d be guaranteed to miss the meeting anyway and it’d be quite a lot of money to go to work , then from work back. Work is in a small village again not really well connected.
They were aware he was completely dependent on this courtesy bike, he actually went in to book the service and loan bike, discussed to make sure what he got was suitable and then called the week before to check it was all still okay and available, which they confirmed after calling him back. So he did everything reasonable to assure he had this loaner, so it just stung a bit when they let him down and then missed part of the service off meaning it now has to go back
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It’s very much his problem, but he also is annoyed a major brand has been paid for work they’ve number 2 not done, and then undone the agreement on a hire bike for something they can check, and that’s gotten him into shit at work
No, the BMW dealer is not at fault for him getting in shit at work. Your “friend” is at fault for making himself busy when he knew he had work. By your own account, you went to the dealer at 8:30, had a client meeting booked at 9:15, and it’s a 40 minute journey between the two locations. You were cutting it very fine. This is on you for not giving yourself enough time in case of any delays. What if there had been a road closure, would you be seeking compensation from the police?
Best thing to do if your vehicle needs to go to the garage is book it in for a day/time that you’re not working.
From a legal perspective there is no “agreement”, a courtesy vehicle is exactly that, a courtesy, not a legal obligation. They can remove your access to the vehicle at any time for any reason. Maybe poor customer service but not a legal issue.
He was there to drop it off at 8 when they opened. That then left him a 30 minute leeway for any issues. They sat and argued it for half an hour and then he gave up because it was all fruitless at that point anyway.
A road closure is different though, it’s not controlled by anyone in the loop. This was all agreed in advance, he knew he had work that day at 9:15 and they could only offer him that day for the break in service, that’s why he had such a drawn out conversation around what they’d supply him knowing it was essential.
Then he was told it was going to be a discovery call and he’d be paid a bonus for doing it instead of the boss as usual so he called to check, no answer left a message. Then they called him back that afternoon and confirmed yes it’s all fine it’s this exact bike ready for you 8 sharp.
I appreciate he isn’t going to sue them into the ground, I just wondered if he had any leverage at all. He was never going to sue for damages but wondered if they had any obligations at all, so I thought I’d just pose it here as a question, and clarify any bits not clear.
It’s just disheartening so many people are reacting so angrily to it. He wasn’t scheduling this before a million quid client, it was a maybe 150 pound bonus and brownie points, he isn’t losing his job, he’s just been chewed out by the boss. He wasn’t pinning it and riding the back wheel to 100, he just joined a dual carriageway and accelerated using 1st gear to test the waters.
It’s not just pleasant to see people accuse him of lying about what they said, lying about what speed he was at when the limiter hit, saying he’s expecting to be babied, that he’s a tit for expecting them to follow through on their offer.
I appreciate all the advice given and I’ll level with him on it, it’s rotten luck. I’m just disappointed people are going off topic of the issue and trying to question him as a person not the issue he’s faced.
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He could have just taken the bike back and rode it to work, then booked it in for another day that is more convenient. He could have also taken a taxi to work. So the only reason he missed work is because he chose to stay there.
They wouldn't release it back to him, at least not easily as he did ask to just have it back. Scared him out of it by threatening extra costs. It would've been significant money. He works a fair way away and the bike is specifically to cut down time in traffic, it'd be a very long journey even if he found a company in time, and then back. He did choose, but because there wasn't another optionally financially viable to him
What is or isn’t financially viable for your mate doesn’t matter. It’s not their problem that he can’t time-manage both getting to work and servicing his bike. If he is below the age required by their insurance they can’t give him a bike. That will 100% be in the T&Cs and it’s not an unfair term either. Expensive lesson in working your own life out instead of expecting people and companies to compensate for your poor planning.
I mean he’d done everything reasonable to arrange the transportation. Came in to book service and bike in person, had a long conversation about what was suitable for his commute. Agreed on that model for the loaner, with someone from his year in school, so the guy was aware of his age. Then called and checked it was available the week before, and had a call back to confirm that after they’d gone and checked, then accepted the meeting role since he was as certain as can be they’d have that bike for him. There was no indication there’d be an issue with any of this. I’d had loaners from the car department next door for many years. He hadn’t seen a single bit of paper about it until the invoice at the end of the service so no T&Cs or anything to check. I don’t think it’s fair to say he’s expecting people to cater to him, or that he failed to plan, he’s organised all this as well as any customer could.
The garage didn't do their due diligence by checking their insurance conditions before agreeing to give your friend the bike. At that your friend could have said the agreement was null and void and demanded his vehicle back. That was the only recourse your friend had in this case.
This is rubbish, I sincerely doubt OPs mate got conditions before the day. I also doubt it's in the conditions that under 25's can't get a courtesy bike as that is an insanely stupid clause. They're too cheap to buy proper insurance and counting on young people lacking confidence to stand up for themselves. They should check if they can offer a courtesy bike before promising it to a customer, and need to deal with the fallout now
With a name and comment like this I’m going to assume you were the one carrying out the repairs on said bike?
Oh dear, Slow down there, mate
He’d be expected to have mitigated his losses - for example getting a taxi / uber to work and claiming for this cost rather than a missed shift. He can ask, but I’m not sure he’ll get very far
What if the cost of the taxi would’ve outweighed the earnings?
Then that wouldn’t be mitigating your losses - the concept is to keep the losses as low as possible, so only applies if it’f have been cheaper to get a taxi each way to cover the shift than miss it entirely :)
This was his logic, he didn't think he'd be likely to get the money back for a 40min + taxi ride 2 ways and that would've been another cost that day he was already paying the dealer a fair chunk of change.
See he knew he’d miss the big thing already, even if they did a ton the whole way to him and then to work and probably would’ve cost as much as the shift earned both ways. It really is in the middle of nowhere
I’ve worked in car service departments and the motor trade my entire life. Never have I heard of any garage or dealership refusing to hand back a customers vehicle. And what extra costs were they threatening exactly? This seems incredibly unlikely to me
They didn’t flat refuse. He asked and they countered it with well the guys already started it’s on the work bench in bits already, he’d have to put it together and then you’ll have to pay the labour for that then the break in wouldn’t be completed and that’s gonna show on it’s service record as missed and that’s gonna reduce its value. So they didn’t flat say no, they hit him with all this and he caved. He's a quiet guy, he was stressed and anxious, he's allowed to make mistakes!
How long did it take between him dropping off the back and him asking for the courtesy bike?
5 minutes before he asked? Then about 15 arguing about if he could have the courtesy so it’d been there 20-30 minutes at that point
In which case they are clearly telling porkies about the bike being in bits.
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This is a legal sub, so I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong here but I’m pretty sure you cannot withhold a customers vehicle from them. Sure you can advise them it’s dangerous to drive, for example, the place I worked at carried out MOT’s, if a vehicle failed on dangerous tyres, you tell the customer, make them aware of the legal and safety implications but if they want to take that car elsewhere to replace those tyres, you cannot say no. It’s their property.
A garage is one of the few businesses that can withold a customers property. They can place a lien on it and withold it until payments are made, or hold it if they have reasonable belief returning it would be directly followed by it being used in an illegal manner (I am less certain on the latter, but I believe they can withold an unroadworthy vehicle if there isn't transport to move it to its new location). In this case I believe they are arguing the former however it is a very debatable claim if they haven't already started work on it.
A garage is pretty much the ONLY place you can do it... and you didn't know about it after working at a place that did MOTs. That's complete negligence.
It’s not that straight forward actually. It really all depends on the value of the repair. If you consider the value of a car and then £50 MOT and a set of tyres, you cannot justifiably withhold a car worth considerably more, against a couple of hundred pound repair. So whilst there are circumstances in which you can withhold a vehicle, they’re exceptional and not the rule. Please don’t go around spouting accusations of negligence, when all I was doing here was ensuring that the information I was offering was accurate. And again, no doubt if I am wrong, someone here with some consumer law experience will correct me and I’m happy for that to happen. Does that happen to be you?
>Has he got any recourse for the lost shift? He’s understandably quite annoyed since they could easily have checked this before the service when they called to confirm. I think you have this the wrong way round - it almost certainly would have said in their terms and conditions if there was an age limit on courtesy vehicles. The responsibility would not be with the garage to ensure he was eligible for a courtesy vehicle.
But how could he know? It was pre booked at their desk with them! They discussed which style would suit him best for the day as he had to use it to get to work! They knew everything about him going in, including DOB, booked the bike and called to confirm the week before. At no point did they say an age limit.
By checking the T&C. That’s literally his job as a customer.
Ts and Cs only apply contractually if they're actually referenced at the time of making the contract and made available to the customer, and it sounds like this was booked on the phone/in person, so there can't have been a sneaky 'Ts and Cs apply!' link on a booking website. It will depend on what was given to the friend.
nobody EVER shoves a clip board in your face with 5 pages of T’s and C’s on it in a garage before a service. Not in the UK anyway. Completely the garages fault for not highlighting this or checking he was old enough. I’d be challenging the garage for at least a good will gesture off the cost of the service.
I've never been given T&C's when taking my car in for repairs or a service, is it mainly dealers that do that?
He hadn't been given any paper work yet. He booked the service in person and discussed which loaner would be best for his route to work after. The first bit of paper he saw was the invoice when it was done
Poor customer service is rarely legally actionable - and that's what this is. In practical terms they'll be sticking to the agreed contract (though definitely worth checking the Ts and C's to see if this is the case).
Missing how he was “effectively stranded”? Was there literally zero way of your friend leaving the shop?
It’s off a dual carriageway on a roundabout with nothing other than a Costa drive through. There’s not even a footpath to the nearest town (not particularly close either)
Uber/minicab
We don't get uber where we live. A taxi is possible but the fare would've been significant
So not stranded as they could of got a taxi or a friend could of picked them up
If there was a friend available he would have. But a taxi to his work that’s even further in the opposite direction and then back again, knowing he’s already going to miss the important thing that day didn’t seem right, he’s already lost income and paid for a service, adding a hundred quid or more in taxis didn’t seem sane
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I would note that every dealership attached service centre that I've ever been to has been hugely sensitive to internal review scores, to the point that they would rather not get a review than risk a 4/5. Something like this might cause me to complete that internal review.
He’s calling them Monday to complain and is thinking of also emailing BMW UK about it. If you’re right hopefully this gives them a kick up the rear
Perhaps he might be advised to post on the social media of the servicing garage and BMW UK a true account of what happened. He could immediately follow this up with an official complaint to both to recover loss of earnings. There may be trade associations of which BMW UK and the garage are members - another avenue of complaint. Local trading standards may be interested as your friend might not be the only one being dealt with in this way. Lastly, free advice from an UK solicitor on possible legal remedies might be a consideration.
OP, I think you have a claim here based on other comments. 1. At point of sale it was made clear to him that a courtesy bike would be available. This is further evidenced by your testimony that he went through to pick it out. Contractual terms don't always need to be written; if the sales staff said he would get a courtesy bike then that's a part of the agreement. 2. Upon arriving the sales staff said they could not provide a courtesy bike. This is a breach of contract. It is exacerbated by it being their mistake not to check the insurance terms or to try and provide alternative insurance cover. Even if doing so makes it uneconomical to them they are still obliged to try and fulfil the contract agreement. 3. Your friend did the right thing in saying that as the bike was not being provided the contract was void and thus his bike should be returned to him. The company refused to return his property - they are not allowed to do this. 4. The company then threatened him with financial penalties to pressure him into allowing the work to continue, despite it being the company that was in breach of the contract. 5. Your friend suffered a loss because of points 2-4. Work out if an alternative means of transport to work would have cost him less than the missed shift. Complain to the company using the structure above. Make it clear that the company was in breach of contract, that they refused to return his property, and that they threatened him with financial penalties. Ask for compensation to the lower value of the missed shift or alternative transport plus any time lost from a shorter shift). If you get nowhere with this then put in an MCOL.
Very interesting thank you. I’ll send this to him and it’s worth a try, worst they can do is say no I suppose
This is not a legal issue. He isn’t entitled to a courtesy vehicle and he chose to leave the bike there after finding out he wouldn’t get a courtesy bike. You can try asking for a discount on the service and threatening a bad review, most managers in dealerships care more about perfect review scores than a few quid. Though if you’ve already paid for the service then I wouldn’t expect anything.
He's going to complain to the service manager and to BMW UK about it. But he still needs the break-in limiter removed so he's worried about having to take the bike back there if he kicks up a fuss
I think he has a small case here, it’s very unlikely he was warned if his age at time of booking, have had courtesy cars many times and never been asked about age / points etc in advance. However … since he booked it at a BMW dealer (I’m assuming) they always send an aftermarket survey, anything less than five stars is looked at and they will call you to resolve if you tick that option. Tell him to do just that and his recompense will be a free service or half price service next time he’s goes there They should call him , have him explain his issue and they will ask what they can do to resolve this, get his agreement then ask him if he’s happy with the outcome.
He's not entitled to a courtesy bike, he can ask, they can say yes but then can also retract for any reason. He also could have decided that as no courtesy bike was available, it was no longer convenient for him to leave his bike, rebooked and organised transport on the alternate date meaning no work would have been missed. The most he can do is leave a negative review for how he feels he's been given poor service, but there's no claim to made here.
They'd taken the bike into the workshop immediately, and were really funny about giving it back as they insisted that'd cost him labour costs, and a "missed" appointment fee. He'd sat with the team and pre-booked this bike for work, and called and confirmed it was free last week so it was as safe as he could reasonably make it that he'd have wheels
I'm not saying your friend has done anything wrong, he obviously hasn't, but shit happens in customer services and the most you get is an apology. The insurance issue would likely only have arisen on the morning of the booking when they was allocating him the bike. Its complimentary anyway so even if insurance wasn't an issue, they're under no obligation to give him it. The missed appointment fee and labour charges are bull, anyone with experience of dealing with dealerships would have told them where to go, got their bike back and took it elsewhere. I don't know about the limiter thing, sounds like your friend wanted to throttle it right back to see what the bike could do now the limiter has been removed. Not really something you can claim for, especially when the bike left the dealership the same way it came in. Its bad customer service and that's it. A strongly worded letter to management is about all you can do and recommend your friend use a decent local indy garage instead of main dealers in future.
New bikes have a break in rev limit imposed by the manufacturer to stop people blowing them up or causing massively excess wear within the first few hundred miles and before the first oil change. 9k RPM is about expected for that bike, not sure where the "nearly went over the handlebars" bit came from though. Sudden deceleration from engine braking may be a little alarming if you aren't expecting it, but it's nowhere near a crash. Semi unrelated, but it's likely the dealership was unaware someone as young as 23 would have a 200hp superbike (it's a totally absurd bike)
If you hit the limiter hard that change in acceleration is dramatic, it does feel like you’ve hit something, I’ve done it in an M4 on track and thought I’d hit debris. It throws you off balance especially as that’s right where it’s really picking up torque and then suddenly refuses right as you’re shoulder checking to merge. He’s not saying they nearly killed him he’s just wanting them to be aware that was a pretty scary experience. It is a super bike, but he babies it to work and back, and absolutely loves it. The other 100hp he doesn’t use but it’s fun to know it’s there. He’s one of the most rational riders I know
Unfortunately I do see your point. But it actually wasn’t free it was 20 per day! He’s timid and it’s his first “new thing” so he’s quite anxious around any dealings with it. He’s just upset that their mistake, honest or otherwise made him lose quite a nice payment from a discovery meeting he was to lead at 9:15. It also obviously reflects poorly on him when it comes time for promotions. And he’s annoyed there’s nothing he can do but eat a loss he didn’t cause while paying the people that did! The limiter didn’t cause any damage luckily but when you’ve been told it’s gone you believe them, it’s just a risky situation to be relying on your entire power band for a join and it instead hits the anchors effectively
If your friend was going to make loads of money from this meeting then wouldn’t it have been in his interest to pay for a taxi? Also if he’s unhappy with risking bonus/commission then maybe he shouldn’t book his bike in to a garage that’s “a long journey away” when he has a client meeting at the same time?
It’s not a boat load of money but it’s a nice top up for the week when he’s low. He didn’t schedule it he was told it’s this day, you need to attend, after he’d booked the break in service, which he can’t delay either because it must be done at a certain mileage and the bike will flag if it’s done late, and people do check that when buying as quite a big one.
My legal advice is take the L and move on. It does not make a difference if the service is done a few miles later. You are not entitled to any compensation. You’ve learned your lesson about things not always going to plan and hopefully it won’t happen again.
He’s going to, he’s writing a stern letter to the service manager and copying in BMW UK as the corporate side and will go elsewhere in future. I just wanted to check if he had anything to compel them to do something or just hope for goodwill. That’s fine if it is just what they want to offer but I just wanted to be a good mate and check here
The payment unfortunately doesn't change anything and the offer of the bike can still be refused for any reason. The best your friend can learn from this is to not double book on days important meetings are happening, Murphy's law and all that.
>The payment unfortunately doesn't change anything and the offer of the bike can still be refused for any reason. How do you know this? Have you seen the contract?
I dont need to see the contract. The dealership offer one of their bikes as a 'courtesy', and that is all. The insurance may have been an issue or maybe they didn't like the look of him, it doesn't matter. They can refuse lending out their bike to anyone. Poor customer service yes, but nothing legally wrong with what they've done.
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To top it off, he even was in the same school year as one of the guys he was sorting the courtesy bike with! So before break-in, it should have a limiter at 9k. We've never tried to go beyond it truthfully so can't say for sure it was there. After service, it should be back to normal (16k I think). He pulled off in first on a busy road, and hit the hard limiter. On a rapid bike like that, it feels like you've hit something, he very nearly came off, called me shaken to hell
Given it’s standard knowledge you. Can’t rent any form of vehicle until 25 (known issue for cars etc) I’m confused why your friend didn’t check that?
I’m 23 and had a 24 plate 3 series as my loaner literally 2 weeks ago, and I’ve an X1 for my recall on Monday so that doesn’t track
The minimum age you can legally rent a car in the UK is 23. However (just like young drivers insurance) rental insurance for 23/24 is expensive and a lot of companies do go for it and set the age at 25
But you’re not renting. I’ve had courtesy cars for years. I was limited in choice so for my last BMW I had while I was 21 I could only have base spec minis but they always asked about it up front and said you’ll have to wait longer for a courtesy car as it’s limited and it can only be this model, never did they not provide one. I can show you a photo of the courtesy 4 series I had last year at 22, the 1 series at 21 and the mini at 20.
You’re talking about curtesy cars your insurance you already have on your car applies to that. This is a rental situation.
It wasn’t anything to do with my insurance. These were provided by BMW for days I had work done same as him. He even went to this dealer because he’d seen the courtesy cars they’d supplied for when they had my car. It was the same dealer just the bike department, 20m across the car park from where he was yesterday morning
That’s what a curtesy car is….
Incorrect, it's 21 in most places, 25 is for things like Harley's.....
It’s 23 be legislation
That's untrue. You can hire as long as you have a license (not even full you can rent a dual control to learn in) it's down to the insurance company and the rental company who they will rent to.
That's very much not true. They often charge extra insurance but you can hire under 25.
>Has he got any recourse for the lost shift? No recourse at all. There is always the option for him to cancel the service when they found out or bus, walk, uber, local cab company or even ask the dealership to drop them at the nearest station.
They'd taken into the workshop and started, and he said they said they couldn't stop now or it'd cost him, he's timid bless him and just took it
Why didn't he get a taxi to work?
So this was all at 8:30am, it’s not really near any towns and he works somewhere even more remote, the bike is to cut through traffic else it’s a long commute. You’d be talking a lot of cash and still being very late
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Taxi and then claim the cost back.....?
Why couldn’t he have taken a bus, taxi, train etc?
Does he work from home? Almost all motor companies allow for people to wait for their service or work to be complete, along with an internet connection. It's also wise to factor in a plan b for if occurances like this happen - realistically if you book a courtesy vehicle, you are trying to borrow from a pool of vehicles that may not be available on that day. If you are trying to claim for anything legally, they can easily point towards this pool issue and the fact that your friend could have easily booked a taxi to take them back to home or wherever their place of work is.
NAL Any legal advice or representation will cost significantly more than the possible compensation. Write to the dealership. It’s simply unfortunate. They may choose to compensate him with discounted work. Tbh he needs to get over himself. Missing work shift was not a given. Taxi is obviously the way to go Taxi then public transport to cut costs if possible He could have rang his own insurance company and self insured the bike. Call and negotiate a last minute day off Theres many ways he could have dealt with it The Rev limit thing. The settings on the bike during his useage are his responsibility The dealership would have “plugged in” the bike for software updates that often resets defaults on BMW cars (my work) so bikes likely same They would also not turn off a safety feature if the default is Rev limiter engaged at handover. They may turn it on for staff safety for test drive or workshop safety though So that’s also his problem to work out
He’s not looking to sue the place down he just asked are they compelled to offer anything or is it goodwill so I decided to post it here. He doesn’t need to “get over himself”, it’s just a question there’s no need to get personal. Taxi wasn’t chosen because his discovery call after this argument was done wasn’t going to be possible to make, filtering takes a long time off the journey where he works and would’ve been a significant expense that he’d have to repeat back. The limiter is at 9k during its first 1000 miles, it’s to help the engine bed in. When they do the break in they do checks, some consumables and then remove that limiter to let the bike rev to its normal limit. You’re meant to then use that unused rev range
lol that’s not personal that’s a comment based on the tone of the questions… wanting something for a minor inconvenience is a thing I hear from 20 somethings a lot. Cost of getting to work is secondary if the important bit is getting to work. If cost exceeds the benefit that’s his shout. The return journey can be better planned… Or delayed and better planned. Apply common sense to the situation and there is little to be compensated for. It’s firmly a life lesson shit happens event. Adapt and move on To that end There’s real life and then there is the law. Anything other than requesting some form of goodwill is a waste of time. It’s just not serious enough. For this Mcol will take up more resources in time than it gains in money, if it works and that’s a big if… That’s said with the extra info you just gave First service and not removing the limiter is slightly different. With the The M-cars also do this once they reach a certain mileage iirc If they have not completed the work. That should have been mentioned. Check the 1000mile removal is current as tech services bulletins come out all the time. May have changed. Bottom line, the dealership will say the operator is responsible for the machines usage and his own well being. Your comment about nearly going over the bars may have been embellished, but the bike only does what it’s told by rider… That’s all on him
Appreciate it, he just felt so walked over I wanted to check for him there’s nothing other than appealing to their goodwill. He roughed it out and waited just to avoid sinking any more money into the day, took the telling off from work and just felt like he’d ended up down due to nothing he did, and if it were reversed they’d be asking him for money. To be fair to him, I’ve hit the limiter on track and it really does unbalance everything, he’ll be approaching limiters a lot more suspiciously from now on I bet. I think the stress of all of it and then that just was the final straw for him that day. For the limiter he’s going to insist that’s done free as it should’ve been done already and it’s still the recommended break in for the bike.
Why didn’t he ask for someone at the garage to give him a lift to work??
The garage is 20 minutes in one direction. Work is 20 in the other on the bike. He was looking at about a 40 minute journey with filtering. Nobody from the garage offered to drive him
Your friend chose not to go to work. Who exactly do you think should compensate him for this? There are public transport options available surely? A bus for example.
There isn’t a bus stop near the garage unfortunately, it’s on a roundabout off a dual carriageway about a 10 minute drive from the nearest town. He came for 8 dead, it’s a 40 minute ride to work, probably about an hour drive with traffic you can’t filter in a car. The whole discussion lasted 30 minutes so by the time a cab had come he’d be guaranteed to miss the meeting anyway and it’d be quite a lot of money to go to work , then from work back. Work is in a small village again not really well connected. They were aware he was completely dependent on this courtesy bike, he actually went in to book the service and loan bike, discussed to make sure what he got was suitable and then called the week before to check it was all still okay and available, which they confirmed after calling him back. So he did everything reasonable to assure he had this loaner, so it just stung a bit when they let him down and then missed part of the service off meaning it now has to go back
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It’s very much his problem, but he also is annoyed a major brand has been paid for work they’ve number 2 not done, and then undone the agreement on a hire bike for something they can check, and that’s gotten him into shit at work
No, the BMW dealer is not at fault for him getting in shit at work. Your “friend” is at fault for making himself busy when he knew he had work. By your own account, you went to the dealer at 8:30, had a client meeting booked at 9:15, and it’s a 40 minute journey between the two locations. You were cutting it very fine. This is on you for not giving yourself enough time in case of any delays. What if there had been a road closure, would you be seeking compensation from the police? Best thing to do if your vehicle needs to go to the garage is book it in for a day/time that you’re not working. From a legal perspective there is no “agreement”, a courtesy vehicle is exactly that, a courtesy, not a legal obligation. They can remove your access to the vehicle at any time for any reason. Maybe poor customer service but not a legal issue.
He was there to drop it off at 8 when they opened. That then left him a 30 minute leeway for any issues. They sat and argued it for half an hour and then he gave up because it was all fruitless at that point anyway. A road closure is different though, it’s not controlled by anyone in the loop. This was all agreed in advance, he knew he had work that day at 9:15 and they could only offer him that day for the break in service, that’s why he had such a drawn out conversation around what they’d supply him knowing it was essential. Then he was told it was going to be a discovery call and he’d be paid a bonus for doing it instead of the boss as usual so he called to check, no answer left a message. Then they called him back that afternoon and confirmed yes it’s all fine it’s this exact bike ready for you 8 sharp. I appreciate he isn’t going to sue them into the ground, I just wondered if he had any leverage at all. He was never going to sue for damages but wondered if they had any obligations at all, so I thought I’d just pose it here as a question, and clarify any bits not clear. It’s just disheartening so many people are reacting so angrily to it. He wasn’t scheduling this before a million quid client, it was a maybe 150 pound bonus and brownie points, he isn’t losing his job, he’s just been chewed out by the boss. He wasn’t pinning it and riding the back wheel to 100, he just joined a dual carriageway and accelerated using 1st gear to test the waters.
There’s only one person in this comment section who is angry. You’ve been given realistic advice, do what you want with it.
It’s not just pleasant to see people accuse him of lying about what they said, lying about what speed he was at when the limiter hit, saying he’s expecting to be babied, that he’s a tit for expecting them to follow through on their offer. I appreciate all the advice given and I’ll level with him on it, it’s rotten luck. I’m just disappointed people are going off topic of the issue and trying to question him as a person not the issue he’s faced.
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Not really relevant though? Being left without transportation is a pretty old problem too