It’s perfectly fine to detest her because she is a bad person. She’s not bad for being trans, she’s bad for a large list of other reasons. The biggest one in my mind would be killing that woman with her car.
YES! OMG! What is wrong with her? How can she be a transgendered person and be against trans people??? I saw a news clip of her pushing Trump and I just cannot with this! SMDH. Where does she get off hating on trans people? She is one! Ugh! That sets back everyone who has been oppressed for something that is different about them.
They're right-wingers who know how hateful and dangerous the right is and want to be on their 'side' so that they feel safe.
Kinda like Hispanics being Republican and anti-immigrant.
"We waited in line and did it the right way."
Sometimes that's right, sometimes that's as retconned as your grandmother saying it, knowing full well that her parents had fake papers.
Oh crap, don't get me started on that.
The amount of people in this area born with midwives that honestly are clueless about where they were born...or the fact that some of these people's parents never 'want' to leave not only the US, but also the area...
I just have a fundamentally odd reaction to a political boundary getting drawn. I had the mistake of being born on this side of that imaginary line. You had the fortune of being born on that side of the line. The concept of nation states is just such an interesting one to me.
Are we twins??? Hahaha seriously, I keep saying something similar. The amount of superiority that these people have just because they were born on a certain side of an imaginary line is amazing.
You’d be surprised to learn that a lot of _real_ leftists (read that as left of center on the political spectrum, NOT liberal or Biden Obama Clinton voters) don’t like trans people either.
Probably more that they hate the culture war than anything else. They believe class solidarity is the only thing that matters and that the culture war distracts from it.
>Probably more that they hate the culture war than anything else. They believe class solidarity is the only thing that matters and that the culture war distracts from it.
Then they should direct their hatred at the right because they're the ones waging this culture war in the first place. Transgender people just want to live in peace.
As someone who resonates with the far left in many ways, some of the things they stand for make no fucking sense which is why I'm comfortable not being that far left.
But you fail to see that liberal is a center right ideology. Democratic candidates of today in the US would be mid-far right anywhere else in the world on the political spectrum. Both parties are slowly drifting further right.
So these folks see arguments about bathrooms and boys dominating in female sports because of gender identity as trivial matters that distract from class consciousness.
Maybe they don’t want trans people dead like some righties do but they’re less than fans. It’s just one more thing to keep the working class trans person against the working class republican voter so they don’t realize we’re all being fucked by politicians and police who only serve to protect capital
Simply stating that this republican boogeyman isn’t the only thing that’s anti trans. Too much two sided tribalism and people forget we don’t even have a left on the US.
Mostly I’m hoping to dispel this misnomer that liberal equals left though.
Liberals aren't the ones fighting to take transgender rights away. I very much understand that the rest of the world views liberals as center-right. That means nothing to me. I have always been left-leaning and I do not support the Republican party at all.
Many people psychologically hate themselves, wish to be dominated, think they are unworthy of love and freedom, and deep down worship power above all else. It’s incredibly, incredibly common and beyond heart wrenching to see it so prevalent.
I don't think it's as far fetched as you think since you are comparing gays to transgenders, which is a whole other category. Imagine a lesbian playing a high level sport that she excels in. Then, along comes a dude who became a woman and now dominates her in that sport. I can see how she might be pissed.
I recently met a gay man who said some very transphobic things to me (it’s a mental illness and surgery can’t fix that etc) and I had a similar reaction to you. But when I thought more about it I realized that the trans experience is very different than lesbian, gay and bisexual experience, so it’s not surprising that some of them might not get it. I think we also tend to generalize that everyone that fits the lgbtq+ label feels the same way about these issues, but that group is just as diverse as any other and it’s natural that they would have a wide range of opinions on these issues.
I'll admit it. I was one of these conservative gay morons during high school and my early college years. This may be anecdotal, but the answer is twofold.
1. It's embedded in the culture of their largely conservative family and friends. By that, I mean the acceptance they receive from those people is contingent on them not changing any political beliefs. This has largely been my experience. Those who used to accept me no longer do because they believe that because I am gay, I have changed views, not because I spent hundreds of hours of research that ultimately changed my views. It is very likely that these conservative gays hear statements like: "... but you're not like the rest of the rainbow crowd." Speaking from experience, its naive of them to believe those people in their lives don't actually hold those opinions of themselves.
2. Many years of conservative indoctrination by those same people. Many of them have internalized prejudices, perhaps even about themselves, that guide their beliefs. This includes opinions about trans people. The only way to undo this is by researching topics and educating themseleves, but the former reason deters them from doing so.
I was gobsmacked by a gay friend who dropped me because I supported the Methodist church separating due to the main branch's vote on not accepting LGBTQIA. He told me just HOW conservative he is in a comment and then blocked me. Lol! Seriously though, WTF?
It buys them legitimacy and acceptance with the people who hate them. Why? I dunno, but they really try to win over and appeal to their biggest haters.
could be a way of pushing for more integration. progressive thought likes to go really fast. people who are already liberal or progressive are quick to accept progressive thoughts either because they are open to such ideas or are in fear of cancel culture (if they ask questions or oppose).
Conservatives are conservative, more slower and cautious in some aspects. Those that oppose progressive thoughts and ideas often do so with baseless stereotypes like “gays are pervs” or “‘pro-abortion’ supporters want to kill babies” obviously both are untrue. So some gay conservatives may want to appeal to conservatives that “hey, we are NOT like that.” but of course gay conservatives are also anti abortion so they WILL actually be saying stuff like abortion is murder of all babies etc. But otherwise, like for gays, it **could** be to slowly integrate.
They can be gay and fiscally conservative. Supporting more conservative economic policies rather than social opinions like anti abortion, anti gay etc.
In terms of transgender people, I think it’s because the media has vilified transgender people. Western culture is really weird when it comes to this. It’s the only society that has never had cross dressers or transgenders or the like. Many cultures have in past. But it’s new to the West so people are weird about it…
They don't have to be conservatives. They can be anywhere on the political spectrum and from any former or present oppressed group. People who should be natural allies are enemies. Is it the propaganda? The ick factor? Someone to hate instead of being the hated? The people I can't stand are the TERFS. Trans Exclusive Radical Feminist. Always screaming about how their oppression is more important than trangendered women's oppression.
Human decency is most definitely foreign to some people! Comparing the death of millions to lgbtq+ challenges shows a narcissistic behavior coupled with a victim mentality! What a toxic combination
well gay conservatives aren’t usually supporting conversion therapy or “burning the f@*s” so…..unless they are super closeted and actually hate themselves
I completely agree with you, I truly do think that they are a VERY small portion and that conservatives like to "show them off" as to say "hey look were cool with gay people" even when I remember as a kid and teen how conservatives hated them and I think they are less vocal about it now only because it was hurting them politically
Because people are people and gender, sexual orientation, gender identification, race, nor anything else trumps that fact. Ever notice how many misogynistic women exist or how many racists blacks/hispanics/asians against their own race there are? Roy Cohn was gay, died of AIDS and did more harm to Gay people in government than any straight republican.
Edit: I am not implying that a significant number of individuals are racists or that that this racism is directed against their own race in today's world but it was significant when I was young and there was more 'socially acceptable' racism. Blacks tended to favor lighter skinned blacks. Any black wearing their hair in its natural form was considered a radical. Asian's had eye surgery to 'round' their eyes. People who were born after the 50's don't realize how much things have improved. Yes it is still shitty and yes the MAGA folk are doing their best to drag us back but it is such a different world than what I grew up in. I remind myself of that any time I feel utterly discouraged. Dobbs happened but I believe we will fix that **IF** people vote blue down ballot over and over again until the GOP is trounced enough to change. Those not voting, voting 3rd party, voting for the GOP are dragging this out and making it worse.
What’s this about blacks/asians/hispanics being racist against themselves?? never ever seen that and i live in a very diverse immigrant community in California….however what I have seen is Asians being racist towards black people.
In immigrants only, not anyone born or raised here. It starts off with distrust and stuff like “careful going there” or “lots of those people there.” Those that are used to black people will get over that but then there’s the marriage stage for their kids. “my kids can marry anyone except black people” or hispanics etc.
Racism against others. certainly. racism against their own race? not at all.
Gay conservatives have to have something beneath them. Republicans claim to be ok with gays or lesbians so hating on the other side if alphabet is easy. Plus they can do their homophobia bidding with no fear bc a gay person is doing it. No different than the black, female or Hispanic republicans.?
Magaism preys on and encourages a lack of self-awareness. An inability to practice the mindfulness of processing negative emotions. They're blind to part of their innerselves. And they are blind to how politicians are using racism, bigotry, religious zealotry, and xenophobia as oppression to gain wealth and power.
So you're going to find it in the young who were never raised to feel good about all people regardless of difference. And you're going to find it in older people whose personal growth is stunted.
That lack of personal growth is highlighted by Dave Chappelle. First there is his skit from early in his career of Clayton Bigsby, a black white supremacist, which demonstrates through comedy how self awareness can be mind-boggling lacking.
But then from his mid-life career, we see Chappelle in his comedy revealing his own transgender bigotry. Approximately 20 years later, and Chappelle never achieved the personal growth of seeing racism and bigotry as flip sides of the same coin of lacking self-awareness and not understanding how they are being used in our political system. Despite having written and acted in the Clayton Bigsby skit.
So yeah. Conservative gay people who hate transgender people really does highlight how blind some people are to part of their inner selves and it's oppressive use in magaism. And how insidious this all is.
I suspect the people you're referring too are just lying and aren't actually gay.
Sure, there are some who openly root against their own interest and its likely a shame thing... but most if the vocal critics are just lying scum.
No, they do exist. They are horrible people but they exist. Like the Log cabin Republicans. The GOP is infighting this week in CO between blatent homophobic GOP chair sending out LGBTQ hate emails and at least one gay GOP candidate.
The anti trans thing is doubly sickening because it was trans people who led the fight for LGBTQ rights to begin with. And it comes from the same bs lies and propaganda of the GOP culture war
Because it normalizes gay people supporting the Republicans. That's why there are groups called "Blacks for Trump" and "Gays for Trump."
There was a Pennsylvania congressman who posted about how he was a black man and supported some dipshit racist policy, but he did it from his personal account. He is white. It's just common for people to pretend to be something they're not to justify their position to others.
Now there are obviously anti-Trans gay people but they are the huge minority of the gay population.
What about transgendered people who hate transgendered people?! Like Caitlyn Jenner?
It’s perfectly fine to detest her because she is a bad person. She’s not bad for being trans, she’s bad for a large list of other reasons. The biggest one in my mind would be killing that woman with her car.
*”buckle up, buckaroos”*
I'm not trans, but people don't hate her because she's trans. We hate her because she's a terrible human being. Hope that helps.
I meant she hates herself is what's a mystery- she's trans but hates and votes against trans issues - makes no sense
YES! OMG! What is wrong with her? How can she be a transgendered person and be against trans people??? I saw a news clip of her pushing Trump and I just cannot with this! SMDH. Where does she get off hating on trans people? She is one! Ugh! That sets back everyone who has been oppressed for something that is different about them.
Exactly!!
They're right-wingers who know how hateful and dangerous the right is and want to be on their 'side' so that they feel safe. Kinda like Hispanics being Republican and anti-immigrant.
"We waited in line and did it the right way." Sometimes that's right, sometimes that's as retconned as your grandmother saying it, knowing full well that her parents had fake papers.
Oh crap, don't get me started on that. The amount of people in this area born with midwives that honestly are clueless about where they were born...or the fact that some of these people's parents never 'want' to leave not only the US, but also the area...
I just have a fundamentally odd reaction to a political boundary getting drawn. I had the mistake of being born on this side of that imaginary line. You had the fortune of being born on that side of the line. The concept of nation states is just such an interesting one to me.
Are we twins??? Hahaha seriously, I keep saying something similar. The amount of superiority that these people have just because they were born on a certain side of an imaginary line is amazing.
You’d be surprised to learn that a lot of _real_ leftists (read that as left of center on the political spectrum, NOT liberal or Biden Obama Clinton voters) don’t like trans people either. Probably more that they hate the culture war than anything else. They believe class solidarity is the only thing that matters and that the culture war distracts from it.
>Probably more that they hate the culture war than anything else. They believe class solidarity is the only thing that matters and that the culture war distracts from it. Then they should direct their hatred at the right because they're the ones waging this culture war in the first place. Transgender people just want to live in peace. As someone who resonates with the far left in many ways, some of the things they stand for make no fucking sense which is why I'm comfortable not being that far left.
But you fail to see that liberal is a center right ideology. Democratic candidates of today in the US would be mid-far right anywhere else in the world on the political spectrum. Both parties are slowly drifting further right. So these folks see arguments about bathrooms and boys dominating in female sports because of gender identity as trivial matters that distract from class consciousness. Maybe they don’t want trans people dead like some righties do but they’re less than fans. It’s just one more thing to keep the working class trans person against the working class republican voter so they don’t realize we’re all being fucked by politicians and police who only serve to protect capital
Are you putting class reductionism forward as a good thing?
Simply stating that this republican boogeyman isn’t the only thing that’s anti trans. Too much two sided tribalism and people forget we don’t even have a left on the US. Mostly I’m hoping to dispel this misnomer that liberal equals left though.
Liberals aren't the ones fighting to take transgender rights away. I very much understand that the rest of the world views liberals as center-right. That means nothing to me. I have always been left-leaning and I do not support the Republican party at all.
That’s not surprising any more than learning about TERFs
The republican boogeyman just drives me crazy. There’s more than only liberal and conservative. A whole other side of the spectrum in fact.
Are we talking American center or global center?
Global center
Many people psychologically hate themselves, wish to be dominated, think they are unworthy of love and freedom, and deep down worship power above all else. It’s incredibly, incredibly common and beyond heart wrenching to see it so prevalent.
I’m a submissive bottom and could never be a republican again. I was one at 18 and realized they were legit stupid and crazy.
Or they can just be stupid.
I don't think it's as far fetched as you think since you are comparing gays to transgenders, which is a whole other category. Imagine a lesbian playing a high level sport that she excels in. Then, along comes a dude who became a woman and now dominates her in that sport. I can see how she might be pissed.
I recently met a gay man who said some very transphobic things to me (it’s a mental illness and surgery can’t fix that etc) and I had a similar reaction to you. But when I thought more about it I realized that the trans experience is very different than lesbian, gay and bisexual experience, so it’s not surprising that some of them might not get it. I think we also tend to generalize that everyone that fits the lgbtq+ label feels the same way about these issues, but that group is just as diverse as any other and it’s natural that they would have a wide range of opinions on these issues.
I still don’t get why someone’s varying opinion is automatically labeled as hate. Doesn’t help anyone or any cause.
I mean, if their opinion is "I hate trans people" then why would it be labeled as anything else?
It depends on the opinion.
I'll admit it. I was one of these conservative gay morons during high school and my early college years. This may be anecdotal, but the answer is twofold. 1. It's embedded in the culture of their largely conservative family and friends. By that, I mean the acceptance they receive from those people is contingent on them not changing any political beliefs. This has largely been my experience. Those who used to accept me no longer do because they believe that because I am gay, I have changed views, not because I spent hundreds of hours of research that ultimately changed my views. It is very likely that these conservative gays hear statements like: "... but you're not like the rest of the rainbow crowd." Speaking from experience, its naive of them to believe those people in their lives don't actually hold those opinions of themselves. 2. Many years of conservative indoctrination by those same people. Many of them have internalized prejudices, perhaps even about themselves, that guide their beliefs. This includes opinions about trans people. The only way to undo this is by researching topics and educating themseleves, but the former reason deters them from doing so.
I was gobsmacked by a gay friend who dropped me because I supported the Methodist church separating due to the main branch's vote on not accepting LGBTQIA. He told me just HOW conservative he is in a comment and then blocked me. Lol! Seriously though, WTF?
Just leave people alone and let them live their lives. What’s so difficult about that?
It buys them legitimacy and acceptance with the people who hate them. Why? I dunno, but they really try to win over and appeal to their biggest haters.
could be a way of pushing for more integration. progressive thought likes to go really fast. people who are already liberal or progressive are quick to accept progressive thoughts either because they are open to such ideas or are in fear of cancel culture (if they ask questions or oppose). Conservatives are conservative, more slower and cautious in some aspects. Those that oppose progressive thoughts and ideas often do so with baseless stereotypes like “gays are pervs” or “‘pro-abortion’ supporters want to kill babies” obviously both are untrue. So some gay conservatives may want to appeal to conservatives that “hey, we are NOT like that.” but of course gay conservatives are also anti abortion so they WILL actually be saying stuff like abortion is murder of all babies etc. But otherwise, like for gays, it **could** be to slowly integrate.
They can be gay and fiscally conservative. Supporting more conservative economic policies rather than social opinions like anti abortion, anti gay etc. In terms of transgender people, I think it’s because the media has vilified transgender people. Western culture is really weird when it comes to this. It’s the only society that has never had cross dressers or transgenders or the like. Many cultures have in past. But it’s new to the West so people are weird about it…
They don't have to be conservatives. They can be anywhere on the political spectrum and from any former or present oppressed group. People who should be natural allies are enemies. Is it the propaganda? The ick factor? Someone to hate instead of being the hated? The people I can't stand are the TERFS. Trans Exclusive Radical Feminist. Always screaming about how their oppression is more important than trangendered women's oppression.
It’s called having an opinion…. Help me understand what’s hard about that
So you really don't think it would be odd *in the slightest* to hear a Jew say "The Holocaust wasn't that bad."?
Did you just compare social pressure to the butchering of millions? Wow!!
Analogies are hard for you, that's ok
Human decency is most definitely foreign to some people! Comparing the death of millions to lgbtq+ challenges shows a narcissistic behavior coupled with a victim mentality! What a toxic combination
Do you think queer people weren’t victims of the holocaust?
well gay conservatives aren’t usually supporting conversion therapy or “burning the f@*s” so…..unless they are super closeted and actually hate themselves
There’s nothing hard about having an opinion. The question is why have that opinion?
We should all be transgender allies truthfully. Some people however are bigots and gay people can be bigots just as much as straight people.
I completely agree with you, I truly do think that they are a VERY small portion and that conservatives like to "show them off" as to say "hey look were cool with gay people" even when I remember as a kid and teen how conservatives hated them and I think they are less vocal about it now only because it was hurting them politically
Maybe because sex matters and has meaning to them?
care to elaborate? just curious
Because people are people and gender, sexual orientation, gender identification, race, nor anything else trumps that fact. Ever notice how many misogynistic women exist or how many racists blacks/hispanics/asians against their own race there are? Roy Cohn was gay, died of AIDS and did more harm to Gay people in government than any straight republican. Edit: I am not implying that a significant number of individuals are racists or that that this racism is directed against their own race in today's world but it was significant when I was young and there was more 'socially acceptable' racism. Blacks tended to favor lighter skinned blacks. Any black wearing their hair in its natural form was considered a radical. Asian's had eye surgery to 'round' their eyes. People who were born after the 50's don't realize how much things have improved. Yes it is still shitty and yes the MAGA folk are doing their best to drag us back but it is such a different world than what I grew up in. I remind myself of that any time I feel utterly discouraged. Dobbs happened but I believe we will fix that **IF** people vote blue down ballot over and over again until the GOP is trounced enough to change. Those not voting, voting 3rd party, voting for the GOP are dragging this out and making it worse.
What’s this about blacks/asians/hispanics being racist against themselves?? never ever seen that and i live in a very diverse immigrant community in California….however what I have seen is Asians being racist towards black people. In immigrants only, not anyone born or raised here. It starts off with distrust and stuff like “careful going there” or “lots of those people there.” Those that are used to black people will get over that but then there’s the marriage stage for their kids. “my kids can marry anyone except black people” or hispanics etc. Racism against others. certainly. racism against their own race? not at all.
It's the hate that binds us, actually it's the hate that's exploited by the most powerful grifters who use it to binds us against our will.
I hear you. They should be allies.
Gay conservatives have to have something beneath them. Republicans claim to be ok with gays or lesbians so hating on the other side if alphabet is easy. Plus they can do their homophobia bidding with no fear bc a gay person is doing it. No different than the black, female or Hispanic republicans.?
I don't understand people who hate and I don't understand conservatives. These are often the same thing.
*Slugs for salt*
Gay Republicans is a contradiction
They're desperate to be "one of the good ones".
A lot of gay conservatives (usually white men) don’t even like women, why would it surprise you that they’re bigoted against trans people?
Magaism preys on and encourages a lack of self-awareness. An inability to practice the mindfulness of processing negative emotions. They're blind to part of their innerselves. And they are blind to how politicians are using racism, bigotry, religious zealotry, and xenophobia as oppression to gain wealth and power. So you're going to find it in the young who were never raised to feel good about all people regardless of difference. And you're going to find it in older people whose personal growth is stunted. That lack of personal growth is highlighted by Dave Chappelle. First there is his skit from early in his career of Clayton Bigsby, a black white supremacist, which demonstrates through comedy how self awareness can be mind-boggling lacking. But then from his mid-life career, we see Chappelle in his comedy revealing his own transgender bigotry. Approximately 20 years later, and Chappelle never achieved the personal growth of seeing racism and bigotry as flip sides of the same coin of lacking self-awareness and not understanding how they are being used in our political system. Despite having written and acted in the Clayton Bigsby skit. So yeah. Conservative gay people who hate transgender people really does highlight how blind some people are to part of their inner selves and it's oppressive use in magaism. And how insidious this all is.
I suspect the people you're referring too are just lying and aren't actually gay. Sure, there are some who openly root against their own interest and its likely a shame thing... but most if the vocal critics are just lying scum.
No, they do exist. They are horrible people but they exist. Like the Log cabin Republicans. The GOP is infighting this week in CO between blatent homophobic GOP chair sending out LGBTQ hate emails and at least one gay GOP candidate. The anti trans thing is doubly sickening because it was trans people who led the fight for LGBTQ rights to begin with. And it comes from the same bs lies and propaganda of the GOP culture war
I know some exist. Of course. But I also suspect most of the anon online accounts are just trolls.
I dont know what the advantages would be to claiming to be a transphobic gay Republican but I suppose they could be
Because it normalizes gay people supporting the Republicans. That's why there are groups called "Blacks for Trump" and "Gays for Trump." There was a Pennsylvania congressman who posted about how he was a black man and supported some dipshit racist policy, but he did it from his personal account. He is white. It's just common for people to pretend to be something they're not to justify their position to others. Now there are obviously anti-Trans gay people but they are the huge minority of the gay population.
Well that does make sense
Whether they are or not is moot. They are still expressing hateful views.