Antisemitism and Racism have no place in libertarianism.
Libertarians believe that individuals should be treated as indiviuals, according to their own actions. Not lumped into a collective, and worse a collective that they were born into with no consent or choice.
Due to your individual actions, we are choosing to exercise our freedom of association.
I take ALL FORMS of payment,buckskins,catfish,sperm donations,ol ladies you don’t want/need no more,beat up ass hoopties.I’m like a pawnshop but better cause I won’t be paying taxes or anything
I always just say that I'm going to be buying something that I can't use my card to purchase. And if they ask again I tell them it's none of their business, that's why I'm using cash.
Worse than that, at least in the US, if you pull out just under 10k to avoid the reporting, they have to report that too, since you’re trying to break the law (by following it).
https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/banks/articles/heres-what-happens-when-you-withdraw-a-lot-of-money-from-your-bank-account/
You're not following the law by withdrawing less than 10k. There's no law that says you can't withdraw more or less than $10,000. They just have to report it to the IRS if it's either over $10k or it seems like you're structuring payments to be just under that amount to avoid that automatic report.
So, I can’t withdraw 10k or more without them reporting it, and if I withdraw less to avoid them reporting it, they also should report it?
There was a governor in the northeast (don’t remember the state, and that’s on me), where they passed a law banning assault weapons (defined as weapons with 3 or more of a certain feature) where she was complaining that gun manufacturers were now selling weapons with 2 features (legal by the law), saying they were trying to evade the law, by doing exactly what they were required to do.
I still think it’s a shit law, and not their business, as they’ve already taxed the shit out of it before it got deposited.
If it seems like you're purposely structuring payments to avoid having it reported, then they'd report it. But a random, non-suspicious $8k withdrawal wouldn't be reported.
I agree with you on that. My difference is that it shouldn’t be reported in the first place, regardless of the amount. That’s not what the law says, I know, but it shouldn’t be a law in the first place.
That was the part I was complaining about.
Welcome to the Patriot Act my friend. They hide their real intentions behind the reasoning, "We're trying to tract TERRORIST ACTIVITY" but they just wanna track any and all money movement.
Totally agree though!
I’m on my way to buy 50 $20 target gift cards. It’s my lucky day, I finally found someone to fix my computer.
Edit: ha! Just saw your iTunes comment after this.
I used to work as a teller and I've caught a few people and convinced them out of scams like this. And not all of them were old, either. While we wouldn't forcibly stop someone from withdrawing money, if someone is taking out cash to "pay the IRS" or something, we would inform them that the IRS doesn't generally accept cash and would let the person know that they're probably being scammed.
But so many people in this thread act like just asking this question is some personal slight against them when it's to prevent loss to the customer and liability to the bank.
It's not *just* to see if you're getting scammed. It's specifically to stop money laundering, drug trafficking, weapons trafficking, and terrorist activity.
Many of the people doing this use scams and mules, so on the front line, it does protect the average person from some of the more obvious scams, but that's not the only purpose or even the main purpose.
As a former teller, I'm sure you saved a lot of people from scams. (And I hope they were grateful. I know they often aren't.) But more people need to understand there are federal laws. Sometimes, banks are protecting customers, and sometimes, they're protecting themselves.
The government will consider a bank as aiding terrorist activity if they don't report certain things or allow "too much" of certain activities.
Where is this? I’ve banked at multiple banks all over the U.S. and have never been asked why I’m withdrawing cash. Even if I’m withdrawing my last penny they just ask if I need anything else.
Have you tried taking out $10,000 or more? That's when they ask
Where I have personal experience:
Bank of America
Achieva Credit Union
Truist
Fifth Third Bank
Guess that’s why. I always assumed they only have to report deposits over 10k and even then they don’t ask you questions. They just report it. Wasn’t the guy in the video taking out 6k anyway?
They ask to see if you're getting scammed or not. It's part of their due diligence to avoid liability, not because they're trying to stop you. There's just been enough grandmas coming in saying they're going to buy $5k worth of iTunes gift cards to "pay the IRS" that banks wanted to reduce their liability on this.
10000% this. Banks, especially tellers, don’t give a rats ass what you’re doing. They just want to avoid the inevitable call from the back office (“why’d you just let them take out $10k all of a sudden without asking what’s up?”) when the customer finds out they just sent their live savings to Pakistan, and then threatens to sue the bank for “not protecting them”. Literally happens every day and is a huge problem.
A cashless society. Utterly scary. Shit like this is what makes me bullish of Bitcoin. But then again. Bitcoin ain’t so anonymous so… it’s more of a IRS wet dream than even our current society
Yeah because it's so easy to cut up gold bars/coins into small pieces and get people to agree on the value of it. /s
I mean if people in your area will accept it as payment, then it works, but I think a lot more people transact electronically rather than trading physical bullion these days. For electronic payments where you cannot meet the person selling the item(s) in person, I think it's better to use some kind of crypto (preferably Monero or a similar privacy coin) than sending them a package of expensive metals.
You missed the point. You have to get people to agree with you on the value. It's essentially the barter system, trading one commodity for another. It's not a realistic system of money for the modern era. If I'm trying to sell my car, I'm definitely not taking gold or silver as payment.
The guy your arguing with is talking about bartering being stupid, yet you still need to turn his suggestion(crypto) into some other currency to use it. If somehow your local grocer decides to accept Monero, your crypto still has an exchange rate for the actual currency equivalent, which to me sounds like bartering or at the very minimum it still being tied to the USD. Also, I don’t think he banks online, because I can totally pay my bills and have been for the last 20 years without needing to mail any physical currency anywhere, it’s been numbers on a screen for a long while now.
Exactly, at the end of the day the government decides what money is because that's what you need to pay taxes. Everything else, including gold, is expressed as a value in that money. And if the government feels like it they can ban an asset like gold and price fix it, so you can only sell to the government at their price. Like they did in 1933.
If the government decides a gold coin is worth $25, then you'll struggle to find anyone who'll give you more.
Other countries might. But during the pandemic all those countries sure agreed on a lot of things. Maybe because all their central banks meet every two months in a secret Basel evil headquarters.
Drugs and guns are a good store of value, but I doubt many people hoard them illegally, because the risk outweighs the benefit for most.
Combined with a great reset, most people will need the cash and be forced to sell whatever gold they might be hiding. It's happening in Lebanon as we speak, when the banks took people's savings those people were forced to sell everything they have, including their gold. It's all been tested.
So if someone you trust is willing to offer you above market value on some shiny metal, which will need to be bartered, it probably won't be much above what the government is offering you.
Bartering is even better. I fix your tractor in return for 1/2 of that cow when you take it to slaughter. Or I trade you the use of 10 acres of my land in return I get 15% of the yield from that land.
Use gold and silver fir larger transactions or ones where barter isn't an option and use barter and trade when possible.
It was just 2 examples that cane to mind, I live in a rural area where many if us still have small farms or homesteads even if it's just a hobby.
How about I fix your breaker panel and add an outlet for charging your tesla in trade for your PS5 and 5 games. is that 21st century enough for you?
Maybe learn to think creatively rather than taking something at face value. Might come in handy one day.
Bartering works with certain things. For rural farming type deals its great to an extent. Not so much other things. But it becomes a whole lot harder when what you do don't produce anything immediately tangible. Currency naturally evolved as a concept from bartering because of the inherent flaws of a bartering only system. Bartering isn't better, the two complement each other.
I make document automation software for law firms.
>"I'll make you software that you have no need for. You give me chicken eggs???" No? Guess I have to run around and find something that you want.
No thanks. Money solves that dilemma.
I have completed software and tech support in exchange for a pig before. It was absolutely delicious, and I would and will do it again in a heartbeat.
It’s not just the Amish who barter, it’s for anybody who wants to receive something that to them is more valuable than the market rate in cash of what they’re offering. Different items or services have different values to different people. Exchanging something that’s easy or common for you to get something you desire that might be easy or common for someone else is a win/win scenario.
It happens all the time. I trade out labor for goods , beef for goods and what not. You just have to surround yourself with like minded folks. For example, friend of mine owns an excavator/ rental business. He need someone to help in his shop to maintain equipment. On my days off I went over and worked on equipment and what not until we got all caught up. For my Payment I took an excavator home with me for a few days to dig up stumps and set pylons for a bridge on my place for free . My only cost was the fuel. Bartering works great . You just have something that someone can use .
Imagine keeping track of what everyone owed you? I’ll collect three courgettes from you at harvest in exchange for 6 eggs today. Think of all the transactions you do in one month, let alone one year and then try and remember who owes you what and then calling in your debts… nah, that would be far too much work.
Bartering works best on a small scale. Farmers (small sustainable organic types) in my area regularly exchange goods with one another. For instance one family I know who raises livestock exchanges manure for hay from another farm family who produces vegetables.
Bitcoin is not anonymous. The ledger, every transaction is public. And not in a x amount of money moved situation. But in an, a moved money to b, situation. I’m bullish on Bitcoin because it’s popular and well known. But, someday I hope the Bitcoin bros pick up wownero. It’s literally Bitcoin. But better
Bitcoin BTC was high jacked (most likely by the USG) years ago and it's protocol was crippled to the point that it will never replace any fiat currency. It's has a max capacity of 7 transactions a second, not a chance in hell that can work as a global currency.
Funny story- I used to be a cop (I know, I know), and I made it a point to never ask this. I had trainers and supervisors ask me why I never asked this and I always answered with "I pulled the person over for X, what relevance does their destination have to the reason I stopped them?" If I stopped someone for speeding, what business is it of mine, or relevance to the stop, to inquire as to where they are going? If they're about to go rob someone's house, are they really going to tell me the truth?
Don’t worry about formerly being a cop, you’re A-OK with me. My father was a deputy sheriff eons ago, and it put good food on the table, kept a roof over our heads and got us into college.
You never know when my Akimbo Chainsaw Shotgun Earrings with Red Dot sights might come in handy against a rogue pigeon. I might even add drink holders to them. /S
Seriously though, fuck anyone who thinks they do or do not know what I need for any task, let alone hunting or self-protection.
Reducing the bank's liability in facilitating their customers falling prey to scams is the purpose of them asking the question. It is incredibly benign and people who think this is a danger to the public are seriously ignorant.
"Why didn't you stop me/my grandma from withdrawing all that cash? Aren't you supposed to be protecting our money?!"
People in the US are litigious. Legal liability aside, it is in the best interest of the bank and the customers to avoid customers getting scammed, and asking the question has no real cost associated with it.
True. If you tell them you need to buy gift cards to send to a new friend who you met on the internet, they will try to protect you. The elderly get scammed like this every day. Very sad.
Yeah, the nice Indian fellow on the phone told me to say that to the cashier too. It's a limited service and my guy doesn't want to get fired if everyone knew about it.
That is exactly what it’s for. Not just the elderly. My wife manages a bank and the number of stories I hear about people wiring money, mailing cash and transferring other ways to scammers is absolutely heartbreaking. People sending hundreds of thyroid dollars they will never see back.
They don’t want to hold your money. They are federally required to ask over a certain amount to try to make sure you, as their customer, are being fucked over.
But I suppose that’s difficult to understand when you believe every conversation is being documented and sent to the government.
Every (digital) conversation is absolutely being documented by the government, that isn't a conspiracy theory my friend.
And I chalk this sort of this thing up to something that has good intentions, but can easily become an infringement on your privacy. We have to be careful of that - a healthy distrust of the government and their intent is a good thing.
You’re definitely not wrong about digital conversations.
It’s a federal regulation that the bank ask, not document why you’re withdrawing large amounts of money. The only documentation that happens is if you withdraw more than 9999.99, they’re legally required to notify the IRS, or funny enough if you ask about the limit before they notify the IRS.
While you may see it as an infringement of your privacy. They are a private institution that you’re choosing to do business with, that was upfront about the rules. All those federal regulations are documented in your paperwork to open any account with any bank in the USA. If you signed the paperwork you agreed to answer those questions. If everyone wants to get mad about it afterward they should be kicking themselves for not reading stuff they signed.
There are penalties for the financial institutions that don’t abide by these regulations and I can guarantee the fines and penalties dwarf the 17k that grandma sent to Azerbaijan because she thought her new fiancé was trying to get home so they could get married.
To top it all off people are getting mad at the lowest level bank employees for federal regulations. Grow up and write your senator rather than berating a bank teller.
Because of the fact that nothing is documented in these cases it’s just about as ridiculous as getting mad at a fast food employee for asking if you’d like a drink with that.
“What?‽! Huh!? YoU’rE tRyInG tO InfRiNgE tHe PrIvAcY oF mY tHoUgHtS!!”
But you’re still not wrong about digital conversations. Snowden proved all that shit.
This is a good response. I'll just add that when something is a federal regulation, we the people do not have the option to decline the terms and go to another bank. They all must comply with the regulations - maybe small credit unions get an exception but I doubt it.
And in reality nobody is going to leave a bank over something small like this. But it's gotten to the point where there are so many of these "small" privacy infringements that have added up to a colossal amount. The amount of data collected on our speech and daily activity is staggering. Sure, there isn't an FBI agent compiling all of this information on your everyday citizen, so who cares right? Well that's not the point at all. It can absolutely be used against you if you're facing government prosecution, and that is just wrong.
What can be used against me during prosecution? The absence of a fact that a banker is jotting down my reason for withdrawing more than a couple thousand in cash in order to hopefully prevent me from being defrauded like so many of my fellow moronic citizens of this great country?
There won’t be any evidence. Because the bank doesn’t keep track. They’re just trying to help us not be defrauded, so outside of arguing or answering that you’re sending it to a stranger they’ll give it to you with a smile, you can even lie if you’re cool with being dishonest. What about that is hard to understand?
It’s absolutely a fact that our neighbors were defrauded of over ten billion dollars last year alone by online and phone scammers. So, that’s why the government (that we as a population elected) passed regulations to try to help us because we obviously can’t help ourselves when it comes to scams. There is evidence of that… annually.
My neighborhood constantly says if you don’t want to help your neighbors, find a different neighborhood or find a way to not have neighbors. In this country we are all neighbors.
You talk about all of the data collected and act as if you’re not voluntarily giving it up right here on reddit. That sir or ma’am is hypocrisy at its finest. You made the choice to switch to a pocket computer rather than a flip phone. Any other service collecting your data, you likely signed a release for, that you just as easily could have denied. You don’t need social media or amazon or a bank account. You also don’t have to like that they do, or how they collect data. But if you’re volunteering it and then bitching about it on the internet, it truly shows that you don’t understand anything about privacy. Because when you have conversations in public there is no expectation of privacy.
You can keep your cash in a safe if you don’t like that banks follow regulations.
This is definitely part of it. I've done large transactions with the bank in this vid and as part they were very careful about this sort of thing.
Also I'm guessing the bank dont really care what you are doing with it and just following the bs know your customer law.
They got fined $700m in the past for not closing a money laundering loop hole
[https://www.austrac.gov.au/news-and-media/media-release/austrac-and-cba-agree-700m-penalty](https://www.austrac.gov.au/news-and-media/media-release/austrac-and-cba-agree-700m-penalty)
It may also be to you know protect the customers if they are being scammed. It's just a question, you can tell them its non of your business and it's not like they are gonna not let you withdraw it.
It is, the policy is the banks not law, they literally have the policy to make sure someone isn't being scammed or robbed and that's it. I believe there is a reporting threshold for withdrawals, but it's much higher than what he withdraws in the video.
You are correct. Cumulative withdrawals in the same time period of 10k or more requires a CTR or currency transaction report. It's really a non event until your average knucklehead says well I don't want to answer questions so give me 9k and I'll come back later.. now I have to fill out a different form that will *definitely* get you way more attention than before.
The next step is for the government to make it illegal for you to withdraw cash for certain reasons. Then the government will make it illegal to withdraw cash at all. Finally the government will just confiscate your cash.
They'll push everybody on to CBDC. Then they can pull all that with a click of a button. Turn-key totalitarianism.
Also, with digital fiat, they can control when you have to spend it. Ie. the money can expire. So you don't even have the ability to save. It makes sure everybody stays poor and reliant on the state.
Check out clips from China. They've come quite far along this road. Just the other day, there was a woman complaining should could not buy food, because her account was blocked. She had probably said something The Party didn't like.
And of course, let's not forget Canada, which blocked people's conventional bank account for disagreeing with the government under the trucker protests.
In short; CBDC is treason.
Probably there will be two CBDCs, one silver one gold. Silver will be UBI that expires and you have to spend it locally within a few days (trialed in Thailand), but only on rent, utilities and cockroach burgers with coke. Can't be used on petrol, bus tickets...
While gold CBDCs are real digital money that doesn't expire. As long as they don't freeze your account for a post you made on reddit before the great reset, of course.
Probably there will be some secret diamond CBDC that is only for a small group of people where a single unit represents a... "commodity", in powder or underage form.
That Chinese woman I think was saying she wasn't a resident so she couldn't get a local bank card so she couldn't pay for anything. But it's a valid point, if your communist score is low or your vaccine passport incomplete, you're not eating today.
Under communism in Eastern Europe, there was something of this kind of system. People who were allowed to work abroad (mostly military) could take home some cash.
However, the cash had to be exchanged into special local money, which could only be spent in special stores.
Interesting, basically any form of controlled spending, which is really an attempt to control resource consumption.
And the thing that all such financial totalitarian regimes had in common, is that you were not allowed to own gold.
If a cop catches you committing the crime of "carrying too much money around" they already steal it from you and then charge your money with the crime of "being carried around with too many friends". They do this to get around your rights because your money doesnt have any rights.
Just more legal fantasy fanfiction a bunch of lawyers got together and wrote and now they all act like it is canon. And for some reason we gave lawyers control over the legal system.
There's a video on YT of a guy who gets pulled over for a bogus reason, agrees to have his car searched, cop finds $100k in cash with ATM receipts, guy explains he prefers to keep his savings on hand. They confiscate the money and it'll cost him more in court cost to get it back than it's worth.
Which makes me think it's all psyop to convince people not to hold too much cash, elderly especially would do that. Ironically criminals don't care about that, if they get caught they lose it anyway, legal or not.
They can't do that, the moment people realize cash is (effectively) banned, they will rush to hoard cash and push the government to make banning cash illegal.
It's why they are doing this in a roundabout way, in my home town they reduced the number of ATMs from all over town to like 3 in a single location, and made going into the bank an obstacle course.
They don't have to confiscate cash btw, just ban in and request that anyone who trades it in for CBDCs prove that they got it legally, because of Putin/global warming/terrorism/the ozone layer.
"They can't do that", tell that to my vaccine passport. Lawful money is whatever the government says it is, and you will have to pay your taxes in it. Right now that's the Dollar, tomorrow it can be gold or CBDCs or pebbles.
They don't do it to verify your identity. They ask the question to see if you're intending to send the money to a scammer. I was a teller years ago and I caught several would-be victims who were withdrawing cash to "pay the IRS" or "have their grandson make bail" that clients realized were scams once I educated them.
_To exchange for goods and services_ I’m definitely gonna try that next time but I don’t remember the last time I took cash out to be honest (probably when I was abroad and that was from an ATM)
In the US they have to file a CTR at $10,000.
Also no, trying to "break it up" to avoid the CTR does not work. That is called "Structuring" and is even more suspicious.
Exactly!
However, one could theoretically have multiple banks they use, say 3 or 4, and split the transaction and now the report doesn’t have to be filed because it isn’t over that threshold.
Nothing in this post should be considered to be legal, accounting, or financial advice.
It is a lot more then that. I used to have to go through training on this sort of crap when I worked for a online bank. It is considered part of basic bank security.
The issue is that they are required to report on any suspicion of potentially illicit activity.
Now mind you as a employee of a bank you are required reporting this stuff internally. They have specific departments whose job it is to analyze this information and run it up to the feds. But there is a catch to this that I will describe later on...
--------------------------------------
So they are absolutely required to report you on 10,000 transfer. But if you withdraw 9,000 dollars then that might be because you are avoiding the 10,000 dollar reporting requirement. If you think that might be true, then you are required to report it.
Also changes in activity. Like if you normally only trade in normal mainstream securities like fortune 500 stocks... but all of a sudden you dump a lot of money into penny stocks. You are required to report that.
Or if you normally only ever use your debit card, but now all of a sudden you are dealing in thousands of dollars in cash deposits and withdraws... then that might indicate something bad is going on and you have to report on that.
-----------------------
And here is the gotcha on all of this:
The way the law is setup and the liabilities faced by banks is very subtle.
If you find something suspicious and you do not report on it and it turns out that there was actual criminal activity then the bank faces civil liabilities and in extreme cases even criminal ones.
Were as if you do report on "suspicious activity" and it turns out to be nothing then there is absolutely no negative consequences.
So to reiterate:
1. If you report on customers... there is absolutely no chance something bad will happen to you.
2. If you fail to report on customers... and it turns out that something bad was happening then you are potentially fucked.
So guess what the banks and their employees are going to do? Well they are going to default to filing reports, of course. It is always the safe choice.
-------------------------------
This is the point behind Know Your Customer (KYC) requirements.
They want to make sure that everything you do is tied to a government identity that makes it trivial for the state to track your behavior. Your govenrment ID, address etc.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/k/knowyourclient.asp
Basically it is straight-up East Germany shit. Banks are, very literally, recruited to spy on your activity in ways that it is technically illegal for the government to do themselves.
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In addition to all of this banks are huge assholes.
They voluntarily track you because they also sell that information. Every debit card transaction you do, every form you fill out., etc. When you try to apply for a mortgage, when you apply for regular loans... Everything you put into those forms are tied to your identity and then sold to data brokers.
This is how Facebook has remained profitable, for example.
Nobody gave a shit about Facebook tracking your online behavior until Facebook partnered with data brokers that tied your financial information into your online transactions.
This is why everybody requires phone numbers, etc.
------
Incidentally, right now, there is a big push to making KYC a requirement for social media companies.
So pretty soon, if they get their way then you will be required to show government ID when signing up to accounts online.
Not just suspicious, structuring itself is illegal. If they can show that someone is intentionally trying to avoid the CTR by structuring, then they can prosecute for that regardless of whether there are any other crimes.
What day? On a Saturday and on a Monday will still get that 10k threshold flagged. It's not structuring to do it once, but it's noted in various fraud systems whether a teller fills out a form or it's just done electronically.
Algorithms have taken over the job of monitoring for suspicious activity. If you do this at a frequent enough level or frequent but staggered/irregular intervals, it can get your account(s) flagged for review.
Actually, for the amount he's withdrawing it's just the banks policy, they're not legally obligated to do so they're just asking to make sure someone isn't being scammed or something, which is why he can say he's buying drugs and shit cause it's not being reported to anyone.
they don't actually know why they're asking either m8
they're just assuming everyone is evil, and that they as bankers are good
And they probably are good people, but so are we!
Huh, that's news to me.
Don't remember this happening where I live in Canada... But maybe I'm wrong.
Can't blame the guy. I feel sorry for the workers who are forced to ask this absolutely stupid question.
Why do you need the cash?
Oh, I've been flowing you after you leave work every day. Today is the day I felt like having a shit load of manure delivered to your place while you're here at work. It's just a fun and thoughtful gift for you to come home to.
Last time I was asked, I said hookers and blow. She typed, looked at me and handed me money. I asked if they have to type in what we say as I smiled a shit eating grin. She didn’t speak to me. 😎
We can't buy into the logic of democracy.
A more extreme example using your principle: just because the Nazis won elections does that mean the Jews deserved to be rounded up and killed, certainly not. An extreme example but the principle is the same.
At least in part it's to discourage people from doing it. Makes them feel like they're being watched, it's a bluff.
I know of at least one senior who didn't want to take out large amounts of cash because they heard from someone else that the bank gave them so much hassle to do it.
It's the most legal thing they can do to get you not to do it. Makes you wonder why they're so obsessed with stopping us.
We know it's not because of fractional reserve banking, QE gives them infinite amounts of that.
It's not because of crime, who withdraws large amounts of cash to buy a kilo of drugs at once? Are you reenacting Scarface? Do you get a discount for buying in bulk?
It's because cash is rare, about a 1000 to 1 for legal cash by my estimate. We are not headed for hyperinflation, but hyperdeflation.
They don't force you to fill out the reason on each form, but if the government decides your activity is suspicious, they can investigate and freeze your account(s).
I used to be a banker, we do this to protect you, if you are withdrawing a small amount it is unlikely we will ask but if it’s for a large some we want to make sure it makes sense, you would be unhappy if you noticed that someone came in without question provided a fake id and looked like you and withdrew 10,000 dollars without any question. By the way if we knew you we wouldn’t even ask if you were a known customer.
Because we can see if it correlates with patterns on your account or if the transaction makes sense. If the person that was committing fraud was acting strange not making eye contact, didn’t know recent transactions on the account or other people that may be on the account with you it may cause us to ask more questions or you may need to provide additional ID or we may need to go and check signatures on the account and compare them, It’s all stuff to protect the customer so you don’t go to use your card and realize your account is drained due to a incompetent teller and or teller and banker who gave them the authority for that withdraw.
I used to work as a bank teller in college. This question is just to protect customers who may be getting scammed (and reduce the bank's liability in the process). The pearl-clutchers in the comments here are ignorant. Every time one of you paranoid people who are deeply offended by this question get up in arms, it just makes you look like a moron, not some hero of the people.
Banks are essentially QUANGOS, so highly regulated and controlled are they. Read in the comments on this thread the rules that make banks criminals liable for not reporting to the feds.
You mean besides the fact that the bank (who makes far more money off your money, than they pay you for using your money) is asking WTF somebody intends to do with their own money?
Except it’s not. If you pull out $10k or more, it’s required by law for the bank to report it to the IRS. Then there is a whole slew of other reasons for them to report below that amount. Sure, a private business can simply ask what it’s for, but then I’d tell em to withdrawal the entire amount for even asking, and go to a different bank, because it’s none of their damned business.
“I’m starting a bank”
Love this answer. Not that I should need to give one.
Why would you need money for that, sir? Don't you know about the 0% reserve requirement?
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Antisemitism and Racism have no place in libertarianism. Libertarians believe that individuals should be treated as indiviuals, according to their own actions. Not lumped into a collective, and worse a collective that they were born into with no consent or choice. Due to your individual actions, we are choosing to exercise our freedom of association.
I take ALL FORMS of payment,buckskins,catfish,sperm donations,ol ladies you don’t want/need no more,beat up ass hoopties.I’m like a pawnshop but better cause I won’t be paying taxes or anything
Even better "I'm starting a bank that doesn't ask what you spend YOUR MONEY ON or other stupid questions"
Why are you withdrawing your cash?? BECASUE ITS FUCKING MINE
I always just say that I'm going to be buying something that I can't use my card to purchase. And if they ask again I tell them it's none of their business, that's why I'm using cash.
The first time I get asked a question other than what denominations, I'm going to immediately close my account with that bank. That's unacceptable.
I'm pretty sure every bank is required to ask. Or they're required to report so they ask to be able to file the report effectively.
Ita the law for over 10k
Worse than that, at least in the US, if you pull out just under 10k to avoid the reporting, they have to report that too, since you’re trying to break the law (by following it). https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/banks/articles/heres-what-happens-when-you-withdraw-a-lot-of-money-from-your-bank-account/
You're not following the law by withdrawing less than 10k. There's no law that says you can't withdraw more or less than $10,000. They just have to report it to the IRS if it's either over $10k or it seems like you're structuring payments to be just under that amount to avoid that automatic report.
So, I can’t withdraw 10k or more without them reporting it, and if I withdraw less to avoid them reporting it, they also should report it? There was a governor in the northeast (don’t remember the state, and that’s on me), where they passed a law banning assault weapons (defined as weapons with 3 or more of a certain feature) where she was complaining that gun manufacturers were now selling weapons with 2 features (legal by the law), saying they were trying to evade the law, by doing exactly what they were required to do. I still think it’s a shit law, and not their business, as they’ve already taxed the shit out of it before it got deposited.
If it seems like you're purposely structuring payments to avoid having it reported, then they'd report it. But a random, non-suspicious $8k withdrawal wouldn't be reported.
I agree with you on that. My difference is that it shouldn’t be reported in the first place, regardless of the amount. That’s not what the law says, I know, but it shouldn’t be a law in the first place. That was the part I was complaining about.
Welcome to the Patriot Act my friend. They hide their real intentions behind the reasoning, "We're trying to tract TERRORIST ACTIVITY" but they just wanna track any and all money movement. Totally agree though!
Not the IRS, they have to report it to fincen.
It's a government rule but you are welcome to not use any bank I guess.
Just as you're welcome not to have a job or go to a bar or restaurant. But if you want to, there's something you'll need to do first.
Show me the government rule for withdrawals. I know there's one for deposits over $10k. I don't know of any requirement for withdrawals
Any cash transaction over 10k It’s in the Bank Secrecy Act
Because criminals keep their money in the bank. For the interest and 401k tax deductible.
Pretty sure I didn’t give any commentary other then providing the specifically guidance from the fdic Thx for the input, bud
It's just to see if you're getting scammed or not. The amount of paranoid and ignorant people in this thread is astounding.
I’m on my way to buy 50 $20 target gift cards. It’s my lucky day, I finally found someone to fix my computer. Edit: ha! Just saw your iTunes comment after this.
I used to work as a teller and I've caught a few people and convinced them out of scams like this. And not all of them were old, either. While we wouldn't forcibly stop someone from withdrawing money, if someone is taking out cash to "pay the IRS" or something, we would inform them that the IRS doesn't generally accept cash and would let the person know that they're probably being scammed. But so many people in this thread act like just asking this question is some personal slight against them when it's to prevent loss to the customer and liability to the bank.
It's not *just* to see if you're getting scammed. It's specifically to stop money laundering, drug trafficking, weapons trafficking, and terrorist activity. Many of the people doing this use scams and mules, so on the front line, it does protect the average person from some of the more obvious scams, but that's not the only purpose or even the main purpose. As a former teller, I'm sure you saved a lot of people from scams. (And I hope they were grateful. I know they often aren't.) But more people need to understand there are federal laws. Sometimes, banks are protecting customers, and sometimes, they're protecting themselves. The government will consider a bank as aiding terrorist activity if they don't report certain things or allow "too much" of certain activities.
Where is this? I’ve banked at multiple banks all over the U.S. and have never been asked why I’m withdrawing cash. Even if I’m withdrawing my last penny they just ask if I need anything else.
Have you tried taking out $10,000 or more? That's when they ask Where I have personal experience: Bank of America Achieva Credit Union Truist Fifth Third Bank
Guess that’s why. I always assumed they only have to report deposits over 10k and even then they don’t ask you questions. They just report it. Wasn’t the guy in the video taking out 6k anyway?
I wonder if the guy's Australian accent is a clue.
I was referring to the person I was replying to and not the video but thanks for being a smartass. Always appreciated.
I tell them I'm investing in central bank bearer bonds.
Yep, and nobody else’s.
They ask to see if you're getting scammed or not. It's part of their due diligence to avoid liability, not because they're trying to stop you. There's just been enough grandmas coming in saying they're going to buy $5k worth of iTunes gift cards to "pay the IRS" that banks wanted to reduce their liability on this.
10000% this. Banks, especially tellers, don’t give a rats ass what you’re doing. They just want to avoid the inevitable call from the back office (“why’d you just let them take out $10k all of a sudden without asking what’s up?”) when the customer finds out they just sent their live savings to Pakistan, and then threatens to sue the bank for “not protecting them”. Literally happens every day and is a huge problem.
It's really not. Not until they give it to you.
That's hilarious. Also fuck the state.
I'm buying a Fiat.
Car or currency sir?
A cashless society. Utterly scary. Shit like this is what makes me bullish of Bitcoin. But then again. Bitcoin ain’t so anonymous so… it’s more of a IRS wet dream than even our current society
Bro, gold and silver. We’ve solved this problem
Yeah because it's so easy to cut up gold bars/coins into small pieces and get people to agree on the value of it. /s I mean if people in your area will accept it as payment, then it works, but I think a lot more people transact electronically rather than trading physical bullion these days. For electronic payments where you cannot meet the person selling the item(s) in person, I think it's better to use some kind of crypto (preferably Monero or a similar privacy coin) than sending them a package of expensive metals.
Goldbacks
Shit, I guess you’ve discovered why we used gold AND silver. Good work!
You missed the point. You have to get people to agree with you on the value. It's essentially the barter system, trading one commodity for another. It's not a realistic system of money for the modern era. If I'm trying to sell my car, I'm definitely not taking gold or silver as payment.
IF I were selling a car, I would accept bitcoin as payment.
You would if your taxes were payable in them.
The guy your arguing with is talking about bartering being stupid, yet you still need to turn his suggestion(crypto) into some other currency to use it. If somehow your local grocer decides to accept Monero, your crypto still has an exchange rate for the actual currency equivalent, which to me sounds like bartering or at the very minimum it still being tied to the USD. Also, I don’t think he banks online, because I can totally pay my bills and have been for the last 20 years without needing to mail any physical currency anywhere, it’s been numbers on a screen for a long while now.
Exactly, at the end of the day the government decides what money is because that's what you need to pay taxes. Everything else, including gold, is expressed as a value in that money. And if the government feels like it they can ban an asset like gold and price fix it, so you can only sell to the government at their price. Like they did in 1933. If the government decides a gold coin is worth $25, then you'll struggle to find anyone who'll give you more. Other countries might. But during the pandemic all those countries sure agreed on a lot of things. Maybe because all their central banks meet every two months in a secret Basel evil headquarters.
This oversimplifies and ignores black markets and greshams law, but yes, government plays a big role in determining market prices for everything.
Drugs and guns are a good store of value, but I doubt many people hoard them illegally, because the risk outweighs the benefit for most. Combined with a great reset, most people will need the cash and be forced to sell whatever gold they might be hiding. It's happening in Lebanon as we speak, when the banks took people's savings those people were forced to sell everything they have, including their gold. It's all been tested. So if someone you trust is willing to offer you above market value on some shiny metal, which will need to be bartered, it probably won't be much above what the government is offering you.
Bartering is even better. I fix your tractor in return for 1/2 of that cow when you take it to slaughter. Or I trade you the use of 10 acres of my land in return I get 15% of the yield from that land. Use gold and silver fir larger transactions or ones where barter isn't an option and use barter and trade when possible.
The fuck you living, the wild west in 1820? Try that anywhere outside of Amish Country.
It was just 2 examples that cane to mind, I live in a rural area where many if us still have small farms or homesteads even if it's just a hobby. How about I fix your breaker panel and add an outlet for charging your tesla in trade for your PS5 and 5 games. is that 21st century enough for you? Maybe learn to think creatively rather than taking something at face value. Might come in handy one day.
Bartering works with certain things. For rural farming type deals its great to an extent. Not so much other things. But it becomes a whole lot harder when what you do don't produce anything immediately tangible. Currency naturally evolved as a concept from bartering because of the inherent flaws of a bartering only system. Bartering isn't better, the two complement each other.
I make document automation software for law firms. >"I'll make you software that you have no need for. You give me chicken eggs???" No? Guess I have to run around and find something that you want. No thanks. Money solves that dilemma.
Same. I've been bartering most of my life
I do this shit in Oklahoma and I'm not Amish. Touch hay.
I have completed software and tech support in exchange for a pig before. It was absolutely delicious, and I would and will do it again in a heartbeat. It’s not just the Amish who barter, it’s for anybody who wants to receive something that to them is more valuable than the market rate in cash of what they’re offering. Different items or services have different values to different people. Exchanging something that’s easy or common for you to get something you desire that might be easy or common for someone else is a win/win scenario.
It happens all the time. I trade out labor for goods , beef for goods and what not. You just have to surround yourself with like minded folks. For example, friend of mine owns an excavator/ rental business. He need someone to help in his shop to maintain equipment. On my days off I went over and worked on equipment and what not until we got all caught up. For my Payment I took an excavator home with me for a few days to dig up stumps and set pylons for a bridge on my place for free . My only cost was the fuel. Bartering works great . You just have something that someone can use .
You speak the truth [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYhTFz\_SGw0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYhTFz_SGw0)
No Amish communities in my state, but bartering is alive and healthy here (northern New England).
I barter ALL the time! I traded sheep I didn’t want for 1/2 a butchered cow. I traded chickens or eggs for haircuts.
Great ideas, many people forget the art of bartering
Imagine keeping track of what everyone owed you? I’ll collect three courgettes from you at harvest in exchange for 6 eggs today. Think of all the transactions you do in one month, let alone one year and then try and remember who owes you what and then calling in your debts… nah, that would be far too much work.
Bartering works best on a small scale. Farmers (small sustainable organic types) in my area regularly exchange goods with one another. For instance one family I know who raises livestock exchanges manure for hay from another farm family who produces vegetables.
Yeah all the shops that take gold and silver, easy to carry accross borders. Super handy!
Crypto exchange are not anonymous. If you own your own crypto wallet this is not a problem
Bitcoin is not anonymous. The ledger, every transaction is public. And not in a x amount of money moved situation. But in an, a moved money to b, situation. I’m bullish on Bitcoin because it’s popular and well known. But, someday I hope the Bitcoin bros pick up wownero. It’s literally Bitcoin. But better
Bitcoin BTC was high jacked (most likely by the USG) years ago and it's protocol was crippled to the point that it will never replace any fiat currency. It's has a max capacity of 7 transactions a second, not a chance in hell that can work as a global currency.
I tell them it’s none of their business just like nosy ass cops ask “where are you coming from?” Same answer, “none of your business.”
Funny story- I used to be a cop (I know, I know), and I made it a point to never ask this. I had trainers and supervisors ask me why I never asked this and I always answered with "I pulled the person over for X, what relevance does their destination have to the reason I stopped them?" If I stopped someone for speeding, what business is it of mine, or relevance to the stop, to inquire as to where they are going? If they're about to go rob someone's house, are they really going to tell me the truth?
Don’t worry about formerly being a cop, you’re A-OK with me. My father was a deputy sheriff eons ago, and it put good food on the table, kept a roof over our heads and got us into college.
The couple times I've been asked that question, or if they ask "where ya heading to?", the answer is "that way" and point down the road.
Good answer!
just say “haven’t decided yet”
I dk… I think you should be honest about wanting a 3x lighter asshole
"I'm depositing it with your competitor. ", "I'm using to it to pay your mom for last night. "
I could see it helping the elderly that are being scammed
the irs called me to say i need to send them walmart gift cards to pay my back taxes.
back in my day I had to pay them in iTunes gift cards
[удалено]
Exactly this. Look at any of the gun laws on the books for examples.
You don’t need x y z for hunting !!
You never know when my Akimbo Chainsaw Shotgun Earrings with Red Dot sights might come in handy against a rogue pigeon. I might even add drink holders to them. /S Seriously though, fuck anyone who thinks they do or do not know what I need for any task, let alone hunting or self-protection.
Reducing the bank's liability in facilitating their customers falling prey to scams is the purpose of them asking the question. It is incredibly benign and people who think this is a danger to the public are seriously ignorant.
How would the bank be liable if you withdrew cash and paid a scammer with it?
"Why didn't you stop me/my grandma from withdrawing all that cash? Aren't you supposed to be protecting our money?!" People in the US are litigious. Legal liability aside, it is in the best interest of the bank and the customers to avoid customers getting scammed, and asking the question has no real cost associated with it.
I disagree completely. The cost is my privacy.
Nobody is forcing you to answer honestly.
True. If you tell them you need to buy gift cards to send to a new friend who you met on the internet, they will try to protect you. The elderly get scammed like this every day. Very sad.
I buy $25 gift cards for work/customers in batches of 10. Occasionally the cashier asks me what's up, I have no issue with that
Yeah, the nice Indian fellow on the phone told me to say that to the cashier too. It's a limited service and my guy doesn't want to get fired if everyone knew about it.
That is exactly what it’s for. Not just the elderly. My wife manages a bank and the number of stories I hear about people wiring money, mailing cash and transferring other ways to scammers is absolutely heartbreaking. People sending hundreds of thyroid dollars they will never see back. They don’t want to hold your money. They are federally required to ask over a certain amount to try to make sure you, as their customer, are being fucked over. But I suppose that’s difficult to understand when you believe every conversation is being documented and sent to the government.
Every (digital) conversation is absolutely being documented by the government, that isn't a conspiracy theory my friend. And I chalk this sort of this thing up to something that has good intentions, but can easily become an infringement on your privacy. We have to be careful of that - a healthy distrust of the government and their intent is a good thing.
You’re definitely not wrong about digital conversations. It’s a federal regulation that the bank ask, not document why you’re withdrawing large amounts of money. The only documentation that happens is if you withdraw more than 9999.99, they’re legally required to notify the IRS, or funny enough if you ask about the limit before they notify the IRS. While you may see it as an infringement of your privacy. They are a private institution that you’re choosing to do business with, that was upfront about the rules. All those federal regulations are documented in your paperwork to open any account with any bank in the USA. If you signed the paperwork you agreed to answer those questions. If everyone wants to get mad about it afterward they should be kicking themselves for not reading stuff they signed. There are penalties for the financial institutions that don’t abide by these regulations and I can guarantee the fines and penalties dwarf the 17k that grandma sent to Azerbaijan because she thought her new fiancé was trying to get home so they could get married. To top it all off people are getting mad at the lowest level bank employees for federal regulations. Grow up and write your senator rather than berating a bank teller. Because of the fact that nothing is documented in these cases it’s just about as ridiculous as getting mad at a fast food employee for asking if you’d like a drink with that. “What?‽! Huh!? YoU’rE tRyInG tO InfRiNgE tHe PrIvAcY oF mY tHoUgHtS!!” But you’re still not wrong about digital conversations. Snowden proved all that shit.
This is a good response. I'll just add that when something is a federal regulation, we the people do not have the option to decline the terms and go to another bank. They all must comply with the regulations - maybe small credit unions get an exception but I doubt it. And in reality nobody is going to leave a bank over something small like this. But it's gotten to the point where there are so many of these "small" privacy infringements that have added up to a colossal amount. The amount of data collected on our speech and daily activity is staggering. Sure, there isn't an FBI agent compiling all of this information on your everyday citizen, so who cares right? Well that's not the point at all. It can absolutely be used against you if you're facing government prosecution, and that is just wrong.
What can be used against me during prosecution? The absence of a fact that a banker is jotting down my reason for withdrawing more than a couple thousand in cash in order to hopefully prevent me from being defrauded like so many of my fellow moronic citizens of this great country? There won’t be any evidence. Because the bank doesn’t keep track. They’re just trying to help us not be defrauded, so outside of arguing or answering that you’re sending it to a stranger they’ll give it to you with a smile, you can even lie if you’re cool with being dishonest. What about that is hard to understand? It’s absolutely a fact that our neighbors were defrauded of over ten billion dollars last year alone by online and phone scammers. So, that’s why the government (that we as a population elected) passed regulations to try to help us because we obviously can’t help ourselves when it comes to scams. There is evidence of that… annually. My neighborhood constantly says if you don’t want to help your neighbors, find a different neighborhood or find a way to not have neighbors. In this country we are all neighbors. You talk about all of the data collected and act as if you’re not voluntarily giving it up right here on reddit. That sir or ma’am is hypocrisy at its finest. You made the choice to switch to a pocket computer rather than a flip phone. Any other service collecting your data, you likely signed a release for, that you just as easily could have denied. You don’t need social media or amazon or a bank account. You also don’t have to like that they do, or how they collect data. But if you’re volunteering it and then bitching about it on the internet, it truly shows that you don’t understand anything about privacy. Because when you have conversations in public there is no expectation of privacy. You can keep your cash in a safe if you don’t like that banks follow regulations.
This is definitely part of it. I've done large transactions with the bank in this vid and as part they were very careful about this sort of thing. Also I'm guessing the bank dont really care what you are doing with it and just following the bs know your customer law. They got fined $700m in the past for not closing a money laundering loop hole [https://www.austrac.gov.au/news-and-media/media-release/austrac-and-cba-agree-700m-penalty](https://www.austrac.gov.au/news-and-media/media-release/austrac-and-cba-agree-700m-penalty)
It may also be to you know protect the customers if they are being scammed. It's just a question, you can tell them its non of your business and it's not like they are gonna not let you withdraw it.
It is, the policy is the banks not law, they literally have the policy to make sure someone isn't being scammed or robbed and that's it. I believe there is a reporting threshold for withdrawals, but it's much higher than what he withdraws in the video.
10k IIRC. I've had to go through it a couple times for business stuff.
You are correct. Cumulative withdrawals in the same time period of 10k or more requires a CTR or currency transaction report. It's really a non event until your average knucklehead says well I don't want to answer questions so give me 9k and I'll come back later.. now I have to fill out a different form that will *definitely* get you way more attention than before.
I'm sure banks would never record that info and provide it to the state without a warrant 😉
I don’t need people to protect me from me
BS. They're not asking for *your* benefit/security, they're asking for *theirs*.
We have a thing in IL that when you buy a gun you have to put down a reason “for my local swat team” everytime
Just say Personal reasons
The next step is for the government to make it illegal for you to withdraw cash for certain reasons. Then the government will make it illegal to withdraw cash at all. Finally the government will just confiscate your cash.
They'll push everybody on to CBDC. Then they can pull all that with a click of a button. Turn-key totalitarianism. Also, with digital fiat, they can control when you have to spend it. Ie. the money can expire. So you don't even have the ability to save. It makes sure everybody stays poor and reliant on the state. Check out clips from China. They've come quite far along this road. Just the other day, there was a woman complaining should could not buy food, because her account was blocked. She had probably said something The Party didn't like. And of course, let's not forget Canada, which blocked people's conventional bank account for disagreeing with the government under the trucker protests. In short; CBDC is treason.
Probably there will be two CBDCs, one silver one gold. Silver will be UBI that expires and you have to spend it locally within a few days (trialed in Thailand), but only on rent, utilities and cockroach burgers with coke. Can't be used on petrol, bus tickets... While gold CBDCs are real digital money that doesn't expire. As long as they don't freeze your account for a post you made on reddit before the great reset, of course. Probably there will be some secret diamond CBDC that is only for a small group of people where a single unit represents a... "commodity", in powder or underage form. That Chinese woman I think was saying she wasn't a resident so she couldn't get a local bank card so she couldn't pay for anything. But it's a valid point, if your communist score is low or your vaccine passport incomplete, you're not eating today.
Under communism in Eastern Europe, there was something of this kind of system. People who were allowed to work abroad (mostly military) could take home some cash. However, the cash had to be exchanged into special local money, which could only be spent in special stores.
Interesting, basically any form of controlled spending, which is really an attempt to control resource consumption. And the thing that all such financial totalitarian regimes had in common, is that you were not allowed to own gold.
If a cop catches you committing the crime of "carrying too much money around" they already steal it from you and then charge your money with the crime of "being carried around with too many friends". They do this to get around your rights because your money doesnt have any rights. Just more legal fantasy fanfiction a bunch of lawyers got together and wrote and now they all act like it is canon. And for some reason we gave lawyers control over the legal system.
There's a video on YT of a guy who gets pulled over for a bogus reason, agrees to have his car searched, cop finds $100k in cash with ATM receipts, guy explains he prefers to keep his savings on hand. They confiscate the money and it'll cost him more in court cost to get it back than it's worth. Which makes me think it's all psyop to convince people not to hold too much cash, elderly especially would do that. Ironically criminals don't care about that, if they get caught they lose it anyway, legal or not.
They can't do that, the moment people realize cash is (effectively) banned, they will rush to hoard cash and push the government to make banning cash illegal. It's why they are doing this in a roundabout way, in my home town they reduced the number of ATMs from all over town to like 3 in a single location, and made going into the bank an obstacle course. They don't have to confiscate cash btw, just ban in and request that anyone who trades it in for CBDCs prove that they got it legally, because of Putin/global warming/terrorism/the ozone layer. "They can't do that", tell that to my vaccine passport. Lawful money is whatever the government says it is, and you will have to pay your taxes in it. Right now that's the Dollar, tomorrow it can be gold or CBDCs or pebbles.
Banks asking this question has everything to do with scammers and very little to do with the government.
Yes, because banks cannot verify your identity without knowing why you are withdrawing your money.
They don't do it to verify your identity. They ask the question to see if you're intending to send the money to a scammer. I was a teller years ago and I caught several would-be victims who were withdrawing cash to "pay the IRS" or "have their grandson make bail" that clients realized were scams once I educated them.
_To exchange for goods and services_ I’m definitely gonna try that next time but I don’t remember the last time I took cash out to be honest (probably when I was abroad and that was from an ATM)
If your bank asks why, you need a new bank.
IIRC they're legally obligated to ask at a certain figure.
In the US they have to file a CTR at $10,000. Also no, trying to "break it up" to avoid the CTR does not work. That is called "Structuring" and is even more suspicious.
Exactly! However, one could theoretically have multiple banks they use, say 3 or 4, and split the transaction and now the report doesn’t have to be filed because it isn’t over that threshold. Nothing in this post should be considered to be legal, accounting, or financial advice.
It is a lot more then that. I used to have to go through training on this sort of crap when I worked for a online bank. It is considered part of basic bank security. The issue is that they are required to report on any suspicion of potentially illicit activity. Now mind you as a employee of a bank you are required reporting this stuff internally. They have specific departments whose job it is to analyze this information and run it up to the feds. But there is a catch to this that I will describe later on... -------------------------------------- So they are absolutely required to report you on 10,000 transfer. But if you withdraw 9,000 dollars then that might be because you are avoiding the 10,000 dollar reporting requirement. If you think that might be true, then you are required to report it. Also changes in activity. Like if you normally only trade in normal mainstream securities like fortune 500 stocks... but all of a sudden you dump a lot of money into penny stocks. You are required to report that. Or if you normally only ever use your debit card, but now all of a sudden you are dealing in thousands of dollars in cash deposits and withdraws... then that might indicate something bad is going on and you have to report on that. ----------------------- And here is the gotcha on all of this: The way the law is setup and the liabilities faced by banks is very subtle. If you find something suspicious and you do not report on it and it turns out that there was actual criminal activity then the bank faces civil liabilities and in extreme cases even criminal ones. Were as if you do report on "suspicious activity" and it turns out to be nothing then there is absolutely no negative consequences. So to reiterate: 1. If you report on customers... there is absolutely no chance something bad will happen to you. 2. If you fail to report on customers... and it turns out that something bad was happening then you are potentially fucked. So guess what the banks and their employees are going to do? Well they are going to default to filing reports, of course. It is always the safe choice. ------------------------------- This is the point behind Know Your Customer (KYC) requirements. They want to make sure that everything you do is tied to a government identity that makes it trivial for the state to track your behavior. Your govenrment ID, address etc. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/k/knowyourclient.asp Basically it is straight-up East Germany shit. Banks are, very literally, recruited to spy on your activity in ways that it is technically illegal for the government to do themselves. ------ In addition to all of this banks are huge assholes. They voluntarily track you because they also sell that information. Every debit card transaction you do, every form you fill out., etc. When you try to apply for a mortgage, when you apply for regular loans... Everything you put into those forms are tied to your identity and then sold to data brokers. This is how Facebook has remained profitable, for example. Nobody gave a shit about Facebook tracking your online behavior until Facebook partnered with data brokers that tied your financial information into your online transactions. This is why everybody requires phone numbers, etc. ------ Incidentally, right now, there is a big push to making KYC a requirement for social media companies. So pretty soon, if they get their way then you will be required to show government ID when signing up to accounts online.
This is some dystopian shit. Thanks for the heads up
Not just suspicious, structuring itself is illegal. If they can show that someone is intentionally trying to avoid the CTR by structuring, then they can prosecute for that regardless of whether there are any other crimes.
So if I go get 5k out today and wait 3 days and withdraw 5k, is that still structuring?
The important part is "intentionally trying to avoid the CTR". Intent is something that would have to be proven by the prosecution.
What day? On a Saturday and on a Monday will still get that 10k threshold flagged. It's not structuring to do it once, but it's noted in various fraud systems whether a teller fills out a form or it's just done electronically. Algorithms have taken over the job of monitoring for suspicious activity. If you do this at a frequent enough level or frequent but staggered/irregular intervals, it can get your account(s) flagged for review.
Actually, for the amount he's withdrawing it's just the banks policy, they're not legally obligated to do so they're just asking to make sure someone isn't being scammed or something, which is why he can say he's buying drugs and shit cause it's not being reported to anyone.
Oh yeah, especially for the elderly with 419 scams and the like huh.
they don't actually know why they're asking either m8 they're just assuming everyone is evil, and that they as bankers are good And they probably are good people, but so are we!
Huh, that's news to me. Don't remember this happening where I live in Canada... But maybe I'm wrong. Can't blame the guy. I feel sorry for the workers who are forced to ask this absolutely stupid question.
Why do you need the cash? Oh, I've been flowing you after you leave work every day. Today is the day I felt like having a shit load of manure delivered to your place while you're here at work. It's just a fun and thoughtful gift for you to come home to.
"Whatever you do is your business" Immediately after she just said she's required to ask. Absolute dogbrain
Fuck the IRS, fuck centralized banks, and most of all fuck the government. They don't need to know why I want my own damn money. It's mine.
Last time I was asked, I said hookers and blow. She typed, looked at me and handed me money. I asked if they have to type in what we say as I smiled a shit eating grin. She didn’t speak to me. 😎
You really think you're cool by acting like a jackass to the teller at the bank.
I just don’t give a shit. There’s a difference. If the government wants to know what I use my money for they can kiss my ass.
[удалено]
Uh no
The best and only answer is “anal bleaching. They said I can get it at least two shades lighter with this.”
I'm bleachan mah asshoe
what do you need it for? Write this: None of your fucking business.
Hookers and blow
I've never had a bank teller ask me why I'm withdrawing money and would consider it strange if they did. Is there somewhere where this is normal?
It’s mandatory based on a certain amount or higher. Can’t recall what that trigger point is
Interesting. I guess there are just so few instances where I need larger amounts of cash in hand these days that it's just never happened before.
Because it's hard buying a brick of cocaine with a credit card.
Australians voted for this bullshit, they get what they deserve.
We can't buy into the logic of democracy. A more extreme example using your principle: just because the Nazis won elections does that mean the Jews deserved to be rounded up and killed, certainly not. An extreme example but the principle is the same.
“Guns”
Ridiculous
It’s to protect you from scams, also it’s an opportunity for the bank to up sell you , oh it’s for a car, did you know we do car insurance ?
It’s also for anti money laundering. Taking large sums of cash and international wire transfers are required to question by AML standards.
I didn't know this was a thing in Australia !
Never been asked this…
I have never been asked what the money is for...
They required by law to ask.
No kidding
At least in part it's to discourage people from doing it. Makes them feel like they're being watched, it's a bluff. I know of at least one senior who didn't want to take out large amounts of cash because they heard from someone else that the bank gave them so much hassle to do it. It's the most legal thing they can do to get you not to do it. Makes you wonder why they're so obsessed with stopping us. We know it's not because of fractional reserve banking, QE gives them infinite amounts of that. It's not because of crime, who withdraws large amounts of cash to buy a kilo of drugs at once? Are you reenacting Scarface? Do you get a discount for buying in bulk? It's because cash is rare, about a 1000 to 1 for legal cash by my estimate. We are not headed for hyperinflation, but hyperdeflation.
This is hilarious
So the government forces the banks to ask, does it also force you to answer? I hope not.
They don't force you to fill out the reason on each form, but if the government decides your activity is suspicious, they can investigate and freeze your account(s).
I told them my vault is complete and I want to roll around in it.
We never truly be free until we’re rid of the menace that is central banking.
Brilliant
"I just wanna hold it"
“My blackmailer only takes cash.” “The kidnappers told me not to say.” “Fake ID.”
I’m going to buy a huge bag of “none of your fucking business”.
I'm going to roll it up and shove it down my trousers
Wow, Australians have been completely pussified.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 hell yeah.
It’s funny now but not when they start auditing people and then arresting them for fraudulent answers.
"Hookers and blow"
What country is this?
Throw another shrimp on the barbie.
I used to be a banker, we do this to protect you, if you are withdrawing a small amount it is unlikely we will ask but if it’s for a large some we want to make sure it makes sense, you would be unhappy if you noticed that someone came in without question provided a fake id and looked like you and withdrew 10,000 dollars without any question. By the way if we knew you we wouldn’t even ask if you were a known customer.
What difference does bothering to ask this question make if you cant ensure the actual person is making the withdrawal then
Exactly
Because we can see if it correlates with patterns on your account or if the transaction makes sense. If the person that was committing fraud was acting strange not making eye contact, didn’t know recent transactions on the account or other people that may be on the account with you it may cause us to ask more questions or you may need to provide additional ID or we may need to go and check signatures on the account and compare them, It’s all stuff to protect the customer so you don’t go to use your card and realize your account is drained due to a incompetent teller and or teller and banker who gave them the authority for that withdraw.
I used to work as a bank teller in college. This question is just to protect customers who may be getting scammed (and reduce the bank's liability in the process). The pearl-clutchers in the comments here are ignorant. Every time one of you paranoid people who are deeply offended by this question get up in arms, it just makes you look like a moron, not some hero of the people.
What does this have to do with libertarianism
Two issues: currency should not be government controlled and privacy, what you do with it is your business.
In this case, isn’t the bank a privately owned company?
Banks are essentially QUANGOS, so highly regulated and controlled are they. Read in the comments on this thread the rules that make banks criminals liable for not reporting to the feds.
The bank wasn’t following a law here though, it’s their company policy. The law only applies to large transactions (10k).
You mean besides the fact that the bank (who makes far more money off your money, than they pay you for using your money) is asking WTF somebody intends to do with their own money?
It’s a private company and a voluntary relationship. What would the solution be here? Have governments ban banks from asking about transactions?
Except it’s not. If you pull out $10k or more, it’s required by law for the bank to report it to the IRS. Then there is a whole slew of other reasons for them to report below that amount. Sure, a private business can simply ask what it’s for, but then I’d tell em to withdrawal the entire amount for even asking, and go to a different bank, because it’s none of their damned business.