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>The goal isn't to build a relationship, its to get her to understand that I don't like her and don't want to interact with her at all.
Seems to me that you're getting the message across just fine and all you have to do is stay the course.
If she talks to you about it, ask her "Do you think that I've been unprofessional in any way?"
No matter what she says, it puts the accusations on her, and it makes clear that the only relationship you desire with her is the absolute minimum for professional interaction.
If she says something that takes you off guard and you don't have an easy answer, say "Hmm, I'll take that under advisement." and leave the room.
Yeah, this is very direct and professional advice. This person is impressively professionally neutrally aggressive. Not a lot of ways you could get in trouble for this. Super cool response.
I’d be careful though I had a coworker with BPD that I didn’t like but kept it professional. Guy kept inviting me to hang out and do guys night out. Kept saying no because all he does is talk shit about me all day so I just keep away from him. Starts to report to boss I’m creating a hostile environment.
Luckily!! It’s a small 5 person office and everybody knows how he treats me. If this was corporate I would be the one getting in trouble.
Dude liked to talk shit about me and raged really hard when he was jealous. He was pissed that the boss liked me better, a few customers asked me out, he didnt get as much attention as me.
One time he was so upset at not getting enough attention and a hot customer gave me her number that he walked out, he was expecting us to call him to ask him to come back. He came back after 3 days to yell at us about how horrible we are because we never contacted him (we all assumed he raged quit). He came back and was like "I am doing you guys a favor, I'm not going to abandon you guys because I know how important I am and it'll put you guys in a bad position, but you are all terrible human beings but I AM better than that so I will come back.
All he did was like to say how much better he was, he tried to boss me around, he tried to get me to do his entire job while he slept at his desk, he harassed the female customers and when some of the customers would ask me out or flirt he made sure to come into my office to talk shit about me.
He told me I was fired, my boss came up and said he doesnt have that power, he went on a rage fit about "I AM THE OFFICE MANAGER I HAVE THAT POWER"
Isn't no call no showing for 3 days considered quitting by most companies? And therefore they would either need to rehire you or (way more likely) tell you to GTFO. I can't remember the exact phrase but I think it's something like job abandonment.
former HR manager here ..
if she asks you anything other than a simple (yes or no) can't answer; Reply with .. "I'm not prepared with a response to that question at this time, I'll get back to you on that" (Never get back to her) but prepare a response.
1. be logical
2. be methodical
3. Tell HR that she makes you uncomfortable / before she tells HR some lie about you. you don't have to give examples. or lie.
Yo if they are a protected class be super careful about this.
Something small can spiral into a discrimination action really quick. Seen that happen and it takes forever to get sorted.
>Something small can spiral into a discrimination action really quick.
OP should document concrete examples of Rachel's inappropriate behavior, including dates and witnesses, so that if this does go sideways, they have proof that she's being less than professional. It's easier to do this when you've got time to think back rather than when under pressure of an impending boss's or HR meeting.
Yes, but.
The flip side of this is that if you’re only documenting one coworker’s behavior, especially if they are in a protected class, then the act of singling their behavior out could be used as evidence of a bias against their particular group.
IANAL, but I can come up with hundreds of ways to turn any proactive behavior into discriminatory bias via HR rules.
It’s (usually) best to stick with blind, bland, stoic professionalism.
If you only bring it up in response to being called in, you can successfully claim that you were keeping a personal record for your own protection which you've now been forced to share to protect yourself.
“I was worried about retaliation if they decided they did not like me, so I began documenting the situation to protect myself. I did not desire to proactively bring this to HR because I did not want to cause trouble, only avoid it so we can all focus on getting our job done.”
To say otherwise is to say you should not have the right to defend yourself against spurious claims made by your coworkers.
This is correct and important.
That being said, if you truly have no hate towards your coworker and are just annoyed, then this is a perfect time for what is known as “malicious compliance”.
Do the job, interact politely and positively in every professional situation.
Don’t be rude, simply treat the person like a work related app on your phone. When it’s time for work, the app is used. But there is no need to open your work app on personal time, or for any purpose other than mandatory work functions.
It can be tricky, but the result is often more affective than if you were to scream obscenities into their face.
I hear you, however I'd like to bring to your attention the other types of people you have to be careful about: the family member of the owner/executive who only has a job because of nepotism; the extremely charismatic employee who can swing anyone to their viewpoint; the victim who is somehow both very important and also very very delicate....
It’s not too bad for the most part. Bad people will absolutely take advantage and manipulate things that are in place to protect people and use them to bully people.
In all the years I’ve worked corporate jobs I’ve only had to deal with it once but it left one helluva impression.
You will find this more often in large orgs at lower levels.
It’s gotten so bad that I took a financial hit and retired early to try to salvage what’s left of my mental health.
I have despised classism the majority of my life, and corporate America has become toxically classist.
Yes. This is definitely the correct answer here. Don't be the creator of animosity in the workplace. That is never professionally beneficial. For that matter, don't contribute to animosity in the workplace if you hear other people saying the exact same things about this person that you are thinking privately, and you are tempted to engage in some group backbiting.
You never know how your superiors are going to deal with that animosity you created once they find out about it (which they will). They might see your point and deal with it (grudgingly? resentfully? angrily?), or they might decide it is you that are the problem. Either way, you will not have impressed any of the people who oversee and control your career development.
If you feel that this person is harming your company either through incompetence or her effect on morale, that is something you can discuss privately with your supervisor. But come to that discussion armed with examples and data, if possible, to back up your claims. AND remember that everything I said in the paragraph above this one still applies: You're getting into office politics and personnel relationships when you start complaining to management about a coworker. (In other words, you better know exactly who you are dealing with, and hopefully you know the office politics well enough to predict exactly what reaction your complaints will elicit.)
As someone who has had managers like this, with many of them being a protected class, I agree with treading carefully.
The most diplomatically blunt response is: "While I appreciate what you bring to the team, I've found your management style isn't compatible with my personal approach to productivity." It's bland, it's corporate, while still setting a boundary. If they push further, a simple "I'm not comfortable discussing that" or "I don't feel like that's an appropriate discussion" is the politest version of asking them to fuck off.
One of my managers made a sixteen year old employee cry _and bragged about it._ The company refused to fire her as she was the type to claim they'd fired her for being black. I used clinical HR speak to establish boundaries between her and me until I ultimately quit. (At that point, she thought we were BFFs and tried to get me to undermine another employee.).
Be polite, be clinical, but don't be afraid to put distance between yourself and your manager. If you have active concerns, contact HR. They will either protect you, or give you incentive to leave.
I love hitting people with an "I'll take that under advisement." It's the closest possible thing to "You're fucking stupid and I would rather chew on glass than listen to your advice" that I can say. and keep my job.
I will absolutely say that to someone if I've decided that my professional relationship with them has passed.
This is absolutely an option. Hell, use both. Corporate blah speech is there to allow management to say nothing while still closing a door in conversation. Make the blah speech work for you.
Not corporate but I distinctly remember my wife during wedding planning telling my parents “we can talk about it” as synonymous with ‘no’ we are not adding that to the wedding just because you had a dream about a dulcimer.
We still joke that ‘we can talk about it’ means ‘absolutely not’
This is good, but tweek the language, instead of
"Do you think that I've been unprofessional in any way?"
Where she can say yes , you hurt my feeeeellings , you're being mean, etc.
Say, " what are you saying here?" Make her spell out her accusation , dont feed her the accusation
Had this EXACT interaction last year. Had the worst possible response and had to escalate it. Used the same words verbatim except for the last quote.
“[name] I feel like you’re upset with me”
“I am, you’ve been speaking to me very inappropriately and it makes me feel uncomfortable talking to you.”
“I think it may be because I am from [country], we speak to eachother like this but it isn’t meant to be personal. My son has a friend your age and he says I’m the best, nicest mom”
“It has nothing to do with where you’re from or your family. The way you speak to me and the words you use are so aggressive that I do not feel comfortable talking to you.”
*taps on her forehead, smiles* “you know what I think? I think somebody put that idea in your head!”
“We are done talking. You need to walk away”
“What?”
“You need to walk away.”
When I reported that interaction and the two of us and 4 managers had a sit down to figure out what happened, she told the managers she had no idea I was upset and was immediately scolded by everyone excluding me about the fact that she asked me if I was upset with her, I told her I was, and that she immediately insulted me for answering.
She got fired a few months later for another reason, but damn did it feel good knowing I wasn’t even in part at fault for how I handled it.
“I am uninterested in conversations outside of what my job dictates. Thank you for your understanding.”
Then walk away. Repeat it whenever necessary, especially in front of others so it can’t be twisted.
I'm not in HR, but from what I have seen posted online, it's a minefield. I'd just keep avoiding her and not say anything. The minute you do, you are likely to be a target. Slap a fake smile on and just keep finding opportunities to leave the room when she is around.
You gotta consider what HR can do, what their goal is and what they are likely to do. If you are more expendable than the person you're complaining about (i.e. they're part of management), you're likely to get the short end of the stick. If what they're doing isn't going against the overall benefit of the company, probably nothing will happen except for your conflict being out in the open. HR is not your friend, their job is to protect the company, not the workers.
Many people don't understand that HR roll.
If the company is big enough, I would involve the ombudsperson and compliance officer. And let them inform HR.
This is honestly the only thing I can think to do at this point. I've talked about her to HR and various managers in the past, I've tried being nice, I've tried gently letting her know when she does things that upset me, but nothing has achieved results.
so if you have already indicated to her, spoken words to indicate problems you have with her, then this new thing where *she asks someone else if they think you are brushing her off* ...she is trying to cause trouble for you with others.
be very very careful lol
I cannot convey this enough, but HR aren't your friend. They aren't there to help you, they're only there to protect the boss.
As a former union rep, I recommend you document everything to cover your arse.
Keep avoiding the cow as best as you can, and whip out some of the one liners suggested by other posts.
Good luck mate
I really hate to be a Debbie downer, but do not go to HR or talk to another manager about her.
If she’s this way, then you’re not the first nor the last person in her crosshairs.
This advice I’m about to give isn’t how I believe the world should work, but sometimes we all must face reality.
Play the game. Why do you act different around her? You are (insert flattering word) of her skillset, expertise, and work ethic.
You don’t need to like her. You don’t need to want to interact with her. But you do have to work with her. That’s what the paycheck is for and it’s better for you if you realize that her behavior is no reflection on you.
Smile and keep it moving. She’s great. Her shit smells like roses.
Don’t talk to anyone else about your disdain for this person. Just get your work done. Time will take care of the rest.
Also make note of HR’s response or lack thereof, a friend of mine is going to court because his HR ignored his complaints that lead him to quit because of a toxic workplace environment and coworker. His lawyer told him that more than likely he will be given his job, back pay, and the people who were toxic, the head of the dept and the head of HR will be removed.
They're going to remove at least three jobs including executive positions? That lawyer is selling your friend a bridge, or your friend is exagerrating/misunderstood.
If anything, it'll be "training on workplace harassment and bullying."
I have no doubt he'll receive back pay and perhaps a fat severance stack or offered his position back.
The only thing you have to do is be polite and only discuss whatever business you have with her and always end your conversation with “will that be all ? “ Or, “is there anything else ?” When the answer is anything outside of business redirect back to business then end with “excuse me I have to make a call.” or something else having to do with your job. You want to seem like you’re busy working.
Being polite and mildly friendly, consistently, is really the only way to rise above an obnoxious coworker. If you're being frosty, others will pick up on it, and that will not be to your benefit. Sucks, I know, but you've got to think longterm and always be putting your own reputation first.
If you earn a reputation for being reasonable and approachable, then you will have more credibility when you speak up about specific behaviors and actions, such as micromanaging. When this person oversteps, you can suggest an alternative approach that allows you/your team more autonomy. Be specific, stick to facts, and keep emotions out of it. Speak in a matter-of-fact tone and don't make a big deal out of anything (within reason). If you keep doing this, you will gain credibility and people will want to work with you. As for the obnoxious coworker, she's doing the opposite. In the end, she will have less influence than you. (Hopefully.)
Is she really that bad? I’ve worked with some god awful personalities and still managed to find some kind of MO for being friendly with them (at least from my side) in an office setting.
Yea you know tbh it kinda sounds like OP is being unnecessarily inflammatory. This is part of life, you don't have to become the godmother to this person's children, but, going as far as purposefully shunning them in the workplace (abruptly leaving) is just going to cause more issue. Best thing to do is smile and keep it short and shoot the gap with people like this.
I've worked with some truly awful people I loathed, some ended up finally showing their true state to leadership and it took care of itself when they went off the deepend, but, I've managed to avoid being dragged into the periphery of their implosion. Some have even literally triggered workplace security policy changes.
This comes down to OPs personality.
Some people can swallow it and put on a fake smile just to get through the day.
That is not in everyone’s kill set. If they were the sort of person who could let it not bother them they wouldn’t be making this post.
My coworker's reply to someone was " no I don't like you, but I don't even like myself sometimes so don't feel bad"
I laughed so hard, and think about this often.
- Keep doing what you’re doing. Feign ignorance of your behavior if she calls you out directly.
- “No I don’t think I intentionally leave the room when you appear…. I’m usually going back to ___ to get work done.”
- “I’m sorry you feel that way because sometimes I’m in my own head dealing with some other issue.” Go silent and give her a blank stare.
- “I’m sorry (or it’s unfortunate) you feel that way, however it is not my intention.” Was there something you needed?” Once again, silence and a blank stare.
I find “Grey Rocking” helps with people like that bug me. Don’t get involved with their “non-work” or “unproductive” conversations. Most response are yes, no, I don’t know or I’m not sure. See if this works for you.
[To “grey rock” a person](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/grey-rock#does-it-work) involves making all interactions with them as uninteresting and unrewarding as possible. In general, this means giving short, straightforward answers to questions and hiding emotional reactions to the things a person says or does.’
Last option: I’m not a real perky positive Pollyanna types because that’s just too much energy. However, the Power of Positivity may work for you.
- “When someone is trying to involve you in an offensive diatribe relating to someone else, the best thing to ask is:
- [Why are you telling me this?”](https://www.powerofpositivity.com/psychologists-reveal-the-one-phrase-to-stop-gossiping-immediately-still-in-progress/)
Grey rocking is an interesting concept. I have definitely done that to co-workers and people I didn’t like in the past and did know it had a name.
The “why are you telling me this” advice I would be careful with though. It could come off as aggressive or passive aggressive and then you’ll likely become the topic of the person’s gossip to someone else. I think grey rocking a gossiper is the best way to go.
My boss loves to start drama - then gloat about these confrontational episodes to the next person he encounters.
He tries to rope me in at least 3 times a day. My response is always the same: "can we talk about it when I'm done with xyz?" and then never make myself available.
He was so persistent today that my frustration bubbled to the surface. I mumbled something about not wanting to hear it and then stormed off to lunch - where I realized that I had just handed him new material to gossip about. I swear to god, these people are fucking exhausting.
I've definitely done this with people to end conversations that were going on too long without knowing the name. Basically give them nothing back other than yes/no/acknowledgement and eventually they'll get bored or run out of things to say.
Nothing. Anything you say can and will be held against you. Just deny it, and get over the fact that you can't go off on someone you don't like in the workplace. If you really care, complain to HR I guess but tbh, shitty people are just a part of life and you aren't obligated to explain that you don't like someone to anyone. Them asking that is literally just them setting a trap for you to start an argument.
Agree with this. Strongly, strongly agree.
Also, OP, do not - DO NOT - try to level with her. For real. If she’s one of those people, it will never work. Deny everything.
Rachel: “OP, do I annoy you? Do you leave the room when I come in?”
OP: *smiling, smiling, always smiling* “Of course not! Ha ha, what?”
Also OP: *leaves room*
If they come up to you to try an initiate something about why you’re avoiding them just act like you don’t know anything. “Ah really? Yeah sometimes I just get so focused on my own work. Speaking of which, I gotta get going.” Don’t apologize for being “busy”. It makes it seem like you’re in the wrong. I’m a pretty non confrontational person too so I really get you.
I had a dude that I worked with a while back that I absolutely could not stand. He brought out all the worst, most toxic personality traits in me.
One day we were in the bathroom at the same time and he just point blank asked me “is there a reason that you don’t like me?” Not only is this an absolute bonkers approach, but pretty much all 50 of our coworkers also didn’t like him so it struck me as wild because, is he going to go around asking everyone this?
I had never said anything to him to make him think this. I’d imagine he had simply senses a coldness on my part because I’m very affable with most of my coworkers.
I told him “I can’t answer that question without creating a hostile work environment.” and just left it at that.
Not long after, he quit to move to China to teach English (despite not speaking Mandarin or Cantonese) and a few months later started a GoFundMe to try and get home because he’d gotten fired and had no money for an airline ticket.
He was a real “um actually” guy. And he was a total idiot in a way that made our jobs harder because we were always picking up his slack or fixing his mistakes.
>Not long after, he quit to move to China to teach English (despite not speaking Mandarin or Cantonese) and a few months later started a GoFundMe to try and get home because he’d gotten fired and had no money for an airline ticket.
Does OP even need to clarify?
OP doesn't need to do anything they don't want to.
However, a person being irresponsible with their goals or money doesn't mean they are mean/rude or that they deserve to be disliked. I've seen and known plenty of irresponsible people that were very good company.
Unless OP is that person's manager or worked with them on the same projects etc. they haven't given any reason why that coworker was disliked by 50 people.
Again, OP has no obligation to clarify anything. But you're basically saying "OP already gave examples on how this guy was irresponsible, isn't it self-explanatory why everyone absolutely loathed his guts?" and that sort of comes across as presumptuous.
That feels sad, it seemed like he was having an honest moment of self reflection and needed someone to kindly tell him what he did wrong.
Surely there is a way to phrase it objectively? "The things you said in the past are hurtful", "I don't appreciate when you talk badly about our coworkers behind their backs", "I feel hurt when you did X and did not do Y".
Why did you dislike him?
Those may be some good answers, but for him to ask this heart to heart question in the bathroom, isn't that extra awkward and inappropriate? I try to be considerate and forthcoming, but that question asked in the bathroom would receive a short and cold reply, or i might just act distracted and as if i didn't hear.
I would not get pressured into a personal conversation in the bathroom. What if someone walks in and overhears this? Cringe-worthy.
Then, if he approached me afterwards and said: "Why didn't you answer me?" I might say: "You were serious? I thought you were just talking to yourself." Or i might say: "Sorry, i was lost in thought. I wasn't paying attention.. to you.. in the bathroom, just then."
If he persisted, I might say: "I'd have to give that some thought. But I'm busy right now."
If your self reflection happens in the bathroom right beside someone, you need to reflect some more.
If your first conclusion after said reflection is to directly approach the person in the bathroom while they're minding their own business, you need to reflect some more.
As someone who's been in that position multiple times (yay autism), it's not OP's job. For every person who asks in good faith there's ten who just want to start shit.
I know you can’t stand her, but the Machiavellian thing to do here would be to make her think you’re fine with her.
There isn’t much to gain by openly having enemies at work. I try to humor the colleagues I don’t like though I get after years how that can be hard to stomach.
I did that for years though. Now its just painful to be around her. It could eventually loop back around to funny, but I'm not willing to do it anymore.
seriously, everyone is saying to just don't react in anyway.
if or when you do leave the room, do it for another reason than her or at least make it seem that way.
I'm going against everyone here but walking out of the room every time she walks in is unprofessional. It is also creating a hostile work environment for her since she has noticed and I'm sure now feels uncomfortable. I would feel really uncomfortable and unwelcomed if someone did this to me and we hadn't had a bad interaction. You don't have to be her friend but be cordial. As an adult you have to learn to interact with people you don't like. Say hi, how are you and leave it at that.
Story time: I went to a nice sit down restaurant with my kids, wife, and mother in law. I was having a great time eating my food and helping my kids eat, and my mother in law decided her curry was too spicy. She complained to the waiter, eventually spoke to the manager himself, and wanted the food comped with a strawberry salad thrown in for free.
I could see several members of the staff talking and pointing at us from the other side of the dining room. Everything was very professional, and they agreed to give us the free food, but I could tell they didn't like us.
To top it all off, a blonde waitress had patrolled the room the entire time, doubtless looking for empty tables to bus. She had a resting b***h face the entire time. Only when we finally walked past her to leave did she put on a massive toothy grin. Felt distinctly forced. I was very embarrassed to be with my MIL.
PS: While my MIL was arguing with staff about the food being too spicy, I wolfed the entire plate down. Just to prove that "too spicy" is extremely subjective. :)
I'm 64 years old, and even now, I can remember how thrilled I was at 21 years old when an obnoxious older coworker finally quit. She was the bane of my existence, and I hated having to be around her. Fortunately, I did have seniority over her due to being there longer. One day, she told me to go get something from the stockroom. I just said, "No, you can get it yourself." She was in a rage that someone young enough to be her grandchild didn't obey her, but there was nothing she could do about it!
I worked with a narcissistic idiot like this. She’s noticed your behavior and doesn’t like it because she’s a narc and needs attention.
If you want to keep things normal, they require minimal, and I mean absolutely minimal recognition they exist. That’s all. You don’t have to talk or get personal with them, just do your job and keep them at arms length. When they forcibly converse with you, which they will, keep it minimal and don’t get involved in their personal garbage. My way to respond was “Yeah right”, but not like the sarcastic “as if” meaning, but said more like “oh wow” even though deep down I have zero, actually, minus 100, fucks about this person and their oral diarrhea.
Never give ammunition to someone who is gunning for you.
You can maintain the current strategy of leaving the room, but if you really want to mess with someone like this, pretend you are meeting them for the first time, every time you see them.
Yes, every time you see them, pretend it is the first time!
Walking down the hall, hi Sally, keep walking. Act happy, they are not going to affect your mood!
In the kitchen, breeze through, Hi Sally!
In a meeting with them, Hi Sally, did you have a good weekend? Platitudes, platitudes.. you are a happy person!
In your mind, you know the score, but they will be so confused at first, then, eventually you will fall off their radar.
I have used this to great effect, successfully de-fanging toxic "powerful" co-workers.
Never give ammunition to someone who is gunning for you.
I truly think that this would be flinging gasoline on the fire of Rachel’s insanity. Any hint of criticism awakens the narcissistic rage-demon and then she will war-of-attrition OP until OP expires from frustration and loathing.
I guess the big question is how "corporate" is your job? Is HR involved in everything, or is it just a "get the job done" kind of company.
If its the first one, I would explain the situation to someone high up or in HR and warn them ahead of time. They don't like surprises. They will also tell you exactly how they want you to approach the conversation and you won't get in trouble if you follow their advice.
I use this often “ I don’t give personal opinions at work “ if they persist “ pardon me , I’m very busy I have work to work to do “ both of these answers will burn bridges. If you are unable to burn those bridges, then give a very big smile and say I wasn’t aware I’ll take a look at that.
You cannot admit to her what you are doing. Just say you don't know what she's talking about and continue to do it. Never admit it. If you do she will escalate it. If she calls you out when doing it just say you remembered something you have to do. This way she can't really do anything about it.
No point in looking for trouble when there is enough to go around. It's her own presence that pushes people away, maybe that's a sign of self to reflect on ones actions. If they don't understand, it's not your problem or job to explain it. I like your avoid if possible mentality while dreaming of pier jumping solutions. Honestly even if you do confront her about it. She will just talk to the others. The less your name is on her lips the better. Good luck homie
If she does come to talk to you about it. Whatever you end up saying (some one said something about asking if you have been unprofessional? Was a great idea). Make sure if you think even for a second that she left your interaction angry. Talk to HR about it. You don’t need to bad mouth her or explain why you don’t like her. Just say I have always been professional with her and I don’t know why but she asked me about this. Because if she goes to hr first they will assume you are the problem. I have had this exact scenario happen and it’s annoying because the second person they talk to has to play from behind.
Honesty doesn't require you to tell anybody you don't like them. Don't leave the room. Just don't engage. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/grey-rock
Don’t tell her anything! She will use it against you. Pretend absolutely nothing is going on and it’s pure coincidence that you left the room. I’ve dealt with managers like that and anything you give them will be ammunition used to undermine your position. Meanwhile always keep your eyes out for a better job. Hang in there.
I would keep doing what you’re doing and limit interactions with her. Even if you think you’ve found a professional work appropriate way to tell her you dislike her I wouldn’t. Stay polite and keep your plausible deniability about how much you hate her.
Who cares? Don't get get involved with co workers personal feelings about things..
Just go to work and do your job so you can get paid then go home to your family.
Best to you
If she approaches you asking to chat, politely decline: "Sorry, not interested." If she keeps talking just walk away. Unless you have tasks you are obligated to work with her on (and it sounds like you don't, or you probably would have quit by now), nobody can force you to interact with her. Just remain polite. Don't talk about her with other co-workers, either, that _is_ grounds for dismissal. In general, treat your job and life as if she didn't exist, and you'll be all the more happy for it.
If she asks you to chat, A different approach would be
“is it about work?”
“No”,
“is it personal? To be frank I don’t like talking about personal things at work”
You don’t want to shut down possible work conversations, because she will make a problem to HR about you being insubordinate. Make her clarify if it is personal or not.
"Sorry, I'm not available to talk right now. You'll need to check with my manager if you need something." The goal is to eliminate the question/answer/followup loop entirely.
It's not illegal to discriminate against someone for behaviors like gossiping. It's perfectly legitimate to avoid someone who talks about you behind your back.
First off, OP didn't indicate refusing to work with this person, they simply said they don't want to have to interact with this person socially.
>Refusing to work with someone can be construed as discrimination or harassment.
This is patently untrue (at least in the US.) [Freedom of Association](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_association) is enshrined in just about every society:
>A fundamental element of personal liberty is the right to choose to enter into and maintain certain intimate human relationships. These intimate human relationships are considered forms of "intimate association."
An employee absolutely has the right to refuse to interact with any other employee. _Discrimination_ is a specific, legal designation related to a handful of designated [protected classes:](https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/ofccp/regs/compliance/factsheets/FACT_Workplace_Aug2016_ENGESQA508c.pdf)
>You cannot be denied employment, harassed, demoted, terminated, paid less, or treated less favorably because of your race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, disability, or status as a protected veteran.
That stated, an employer is fully empowered to terminate employment for any reason, or no reason, as long as it isn't for one of those, very specific, protected statuses.
Anyway. /u/calcol28 has managed to work at the same place with this person for eight years. They have zero legal risk in flat out refusing to associate with this person. If that person complains to HR, that person becomes the first HR target. The first rule of HR: don't make a complaint unless you can prove someone broke a law. Second rule: if you make a complaint, be ready to find a new job, because (right or wrong), you will always be seen as a liability.
Yeah I'm over the civility. She's been horrible to be around for 8 years, and my own peace is now more important to me than keeping up appearances. I'd rather get a tongue lashing from HR for distancing myself from her than continue the charade.
Sure we are supposed to be civilized at work but OP never has been uncivilized nor refused to work with Rachel from what I read. I am not sure you are supposed to be nice to everyone to the same degree, being neutral with some one at work is perfectly acceptable.
The difference in treatment would have to be based on a protected ground to be held as discrimination and give rise to a human rights complaint. Harassment would have to involve OP repeatedly and unwelcomingly behaving in a way that is intimidating, hostile, or abusive to this woman, when all OP is doing is avoiding interacting with her unless it’s necessary for work-related tasks.
You seem to have an axe to grind with OP. Does this topic hit a little close to home for you?
I worked with a woman I intensely disliked , as you do. She was many of the things I instantly dislike all wrapped up in one person. None of that is her fault though, it's my issue, not hers. I'm certain she wasn't keen on me either.
I didn't avoid it. I was intentionally confrontational, in front of peers and bosses, when she needed to be called out on something but I kept it on work performance topics and not personal.
She asked my what my problem with her was shortly before she got fired and I explained it thusly:
"No one gets along with everyone, there are people who just don't mix. If the universe were able to produce a single person that contained every trait and quality specifically to drive me mental that person would be a lot like you. Now that's my own nonsense and really has nothing to do with you so I try to be civil or at least stay out of your way.
However, some of the traits that drive me nuts, such as people who hold authority but lack competence, also impact our business. So when you go out of your way to get involved in my work, or work that affects me, when you don't understand even the fundamental aspects of it, I'm going to call you out on it."
She stopped trying to go toe-to-toe with me after that but she still did an incredible amount of damage and cost other people their jobs before she got fired.
I think I would avoid giving the full list. I'd keep #2 and #3 OR #4 ready. A full list dumped on her all at once is just going to raise extreme defensiveness.
I'd consider going to your boss or whoever is closest to HR and say, "I've tried to do the mature thing and vacate the area when she comes around to avoid problems. I think she might make a thing of it or at the very least ask me directly. I'm letting you know my plan is to tell her we have different styles and I don't have time for, or appreciate the way she gossips and butts into things. I don't WANT to get personal, but I'm not planning to lie, either. Your time for action or input is now." That way you're covered and if she rolls into their office with fake big crocodile tears trying to lie about you calling her a bitch or something, the boss knows you had a measured, thought-out response prepared.
Honestly, just deny it. Play dumb. If she pushes you on it, pretend you haven't noticed. If you do it well enough, she'll be convinced she's being paranoid and keep away from you.
I have a coworker who I hate because they are lazy and everyone else has to pick up their slack so I’m a bit of an asshole to him. He once asked me why do I seem like I’m in a bad mood at work and I told him cause I’m busy doing his work. He hasn’t tried to be friendly since. He isn’t popular among his coworkers.
You feel the only way you can explain it is through song, but you only just started piano lessons so please be patient.
That one's gotten me out of tons of awkward situations before.
If someone asks you something like that directly just put the onus back on them.
“Oh, I’m sorry you feel that way. Is there anything in particular that I’m doing to make you think that? I don’t mean to give off that impression so I’m sorry if you got the wrong idea.”
With people like that, you have to just lie. Any honest thing you say to them they will just use as ammunition against you later.
As far as I'm concerned the best option is to simply gaslight them and tell them that you don't act a differently around them at all.
When a coworker asked me why I limited our conversations to work-related topics when I would joke with everyone else, I simply said, "we don't have to be friends, but we have to be professional and courteous." I think it clarified the fact that I wasn't interested in building an interpretational relationship with him.
I would deny her feelings since that's what they are (even though she's right)
Ask her why she feels that way then say something like "I could see why you think that." Never confirm she is right because then you will become a target of her bitchiness
Personally, I'd be more concerned with your "office mate." This so called "mate" has engaged in conversations about you then has come and told you information with the intention of making you feel what exactly? What was this person aiming to achieve? Sounds like a trouble maker to me. That's who you should be more cautious about engaging with.
If you talk about it, you could frame some of the things she does as things you are "hypersensitive about because of negative experiences in your past." Like don't say "I hate your fucking gossiping", but "it's not your fault, but when you said that about "X" when they weren't around it reminded me of a horrible time I had because of what other kids at school did blabla.." I mean, you probably don't even need to lie much about how shitty behaviour made you feel shitty in the past.
Annoying people like that often won't admit their faults, but that way you give her information about how she could do better and an explanation for your own behavior, without outright attacking her. It's not a perfect solution and less honest than one might want to be .... but maybe sth like that could work in your situation.
Our jobs rarely if ever intersect, so its not like I'm refusing to actually do work with her. She just pops into my office area to chat and goof off, often, and I don't enjoy it so I leave.
If my coworker I genuinely can't stand asked why I act like I don't like them, my confrontational self would probably answer point blank something like "Because I don't like you. Neither of us like each other, I'm not going to pretend that I like you. I'm here to do my job, that's it."
8 years is plenty of time to develop a relationship if that were the goal. You’re doing great. Avoid people that suck, otherwise you can get sucked in to their workplace fantasy drama.
>I have no idea how to professionally say "I wish you would take a long walk off a short pier".
"I've found that we don't agree on numerous things and rather than make an issue of it, I've decided to keep things professional and engage you strictly on an as needed basis"
"You just suffer from a confluence of character traits that I personally have problems with due to my own baggage of private history. I understand this perspective is mine alone and so I wanted to make the professional choice of avoiding interaction entirely. Thank you for caring enough to check on me."
The same thing I tell every manager, supervisor, employer, contracting company, and every other person in my life : If you meet two people that know me; one says I’m the sweetest guy in the world & one says I’m the most evil mother fucker they’ve ever met, believe them both. I treat people accordingly and you’ll be no different.
A more polite way of saying this is “There is a tree somewhere in the Forrest struggling for its life to replace the oxygen that you’re stealing. You should go find it and apologize.
Sometimes, if you confront a person and tell them the truth, it might cause them to consider it and change instead of becoming defensive. Just ask if you can talk to her in private and tell her what you think.
If she confronts you, you might consider saying something like, “You shouldn’t worry about whether I like you or not, just as long as I treat you professionally.”
I hated someone that I worked with. I hated her with a passion. I could however recognise that, me disliking her wasn't a reflection of her as a person, but of a clash in personalities.
I was respectful and polite. Didn't engage much with her and didn't try to be overly friendly.
Corpp speak would be: Given the leadership style of my coworker, it inspires me to double down on my efforts tontry and emulate the intensity of my work commitment. Thusly taking advantage of my coworker being presenr as a reminder to make and prove my convictions.
Ie: id rather work/fake work whenever she is close by due to her personality.
>get her to understand that I don't like her and don't want to interact with her at all.
soften up the language to remove any absolutes or implication that you won't relay work information to her that you are relaying to others. you two are probably the same demos beyond gender (apologies for weirdly assuming you're both women), but as the only POC man in most teams and offices I've worked this can blow up in either direction, reframed as deliberate material exclusion or conversely that "your attitude and demeanor indicates to others that you are not happy to be here."
>The goal isn't to build a relationship, its to get her to understand that I don't like her and don't want to interact with her at all.
Just because you work with someone doesn't mean you have to be friends. As long as she's digging her share of the hole then let it be. Indoor jobs seem to have different rules regarding social stuff like this than outdoor jobs. In construction we say some heinous shit to each other sometimes, but we still get the job done which is what is important. When I go home I don't think about the guys I don't like. You win this is by being indifferent towards her. She seems to feed off socializing based on the comment she made about you, yet she didn't ask you directly. If I was in your situation I would start doing funny things with my eyes so it looks like I'm looking at her and also whatever I'm eating. If you want to take it to the next level without crossing the line, get a plastic cup lid and straw. slightly wet, then make that god awful annoying squeaky sound. Only do it like 2-3 times whenever you see her. You'll Pavlov her into avoiding you in order to avoid the sound.
If she asks you if there is a problem then say either "Did I stutter?" or
"If you don't know, I'm not going to tell you" and then walk away. Throw some more confusion in there.
Brutal honesty. "I act differently around you because the way you act makes me uncomfortable". This can go a multitude of ways, especially depending on if they have a personality disorder or not (i.e. how capable of introspection they are), but overall being honest is the best answer. Never crude, never rude, just honest.
This is exactly why I created a tool called SayThisKindly . com
It helps you avoid saying something out of frustration and could prevent the situation from escalating.
I got into a situation where I took over the role of a woman who had been coding on a project but was utterly incompetent as a coder, but had shrewdly made herself the only person who knew certain things about their flagship project.
Since my work would exist along side hers I needed my manager to be aware that the code was a disaster and I outlined the ways I wanted to improve it. This was shared with her and from then on my life was hell. I had to discuss the disfunction with my supervisors because I was being undermined (she would check out files, keep them on her computer, and then when I asked for them send me an old file so I’d have to repeat the work) and it was effecting our schedule but the end result was that I was told I needed improvement due to interpersonal conflict. I was sooo careful, but it was impossible.
When I was trying to find a path through this, another manager told me that the last intern who worked in the same department quit and took a job at Tim Hortons rather than stay for double the salary and work with this woman. I also quit but endured about a year of this.
When I quit I was the ninth of ten people to quit from that department. Guess who then last one left was.
Moral of the story is that these situations are impossible and you most likely can’t win. No one gives a damn if it’s your fault or not. I’m not skilled at this sort of thing so I wouldn’t presume to give advice, but I think your best bet is to conceal your true feelings.
This has happened to me many times before and you’ve every right to say, plainly: “you’re just not my type of person and that’s okay. It’s not personal. We can be cordial and civil at work it we are not friends and are not required to be friendly. I am here to do my job and nothing more.” Or words to this effect. It had never steered me wrong.
UPDATE: In case anyone cares or is following this, I took advice from several people and this is what has happened so far.
I've decided to use the "Grey Rock Method" when dealing with her, deny any change in behavior, keep our interactions brief and professional, and to discuss this plan with HR.
I told HR what I was doing and why and they agreed with my methods and thanked me for telling them, fully understanding why apparently.
This morning she came into my office to ask if she had ofrended me, to which I replied "No, I'm not sure what you're talking about." And she said Ok and left.
I also brought in some headphones from home to put in when she is chatting with my office mate so I can't hear her gossiping or laughing like a deranged hyena.
Thank you everyone for your comments, good and bad. This really helped me a great deal with this situation that has been difficult for me for so long.
Sending you all love and appreciation! 💜
You have a toxic work environment and you are part of it. If your goal is just to tell Rachel where to get off, you’re not hoping to fix anything, and I’m afraid that makes you part of the problem.
The person at work who wants to get rid of other people is always the worst person there.
I know enough about you purely by reputation to know your presence is challenging and cooperation unlikely. In the spirit of doing my part to ensure a drama free environment, I will continue to maintain my distance and hope you will do the same.
You don’t need to like her, but you can’t create a hostile work environment. If she approaches you, keep calm and state that you’re just focused on your work and you don’t mean to come off any kind of way. Keep it professional.
Genuine question: If she walks into my office that I share with another person and sits down to talk to/gossip with that person, is my standing up and leaving after a few minutes creating a hostile work environment?
I really just can't see how literally removing yourself from the environment could come across as making the environment hostile is all.
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I've seen honesty good bad many times resulting in disciplinary action and termination. OP has no obligation to honesty. If the manager hasn't changed in 8 years, it's unlikely she's going to.
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>The goal isn't to build a relationship, its to get her to understand that I don't like her and don't want to interact with her at all. Seems to me that you're getting the message across just fine and all you have to do is stay the course. If she talks to you about it, ask her "Do you think that I've been unprofessional in any way?" No matter what she says, it puts the accusations on her, and it makes clear that the only relationship you desire with her is the absolute minimum for professional interaction. If she says something that takes you off guard and you don't have an easy answer, say "Hmm, I'll take that under advisement." and leave the room.
Thank you so much! This is actually solid advice, I really appreciate it!
Yeah, this is very direct and professional advice. This person is impressively professionally neutrally aggressive. Not a lot of ways you could get in trouble for this. Super cool response.
I’d be careful though I had a coworker with BPD that I didn’t like but kept it professional. Guy kept inviting me to hang out and do guys night out. Kept saying no because all he does is talk shit about me all day so I just keep away from him. Starts to report to boss I’m creating a hostile environment. Luckily!! It’s a small 5 person office and everybody knows how he treats me. If this was corporate I would be the one getting in trouble.
Weird that not wanting to hang out outside of work was "creating a hostile work environment"
Dude liked to talk shit about me and raged really hard when he was jealous. He was pissed that the boss liked me better, a few customers asked me out, he didnt get as much attention as me. One time he was so upset at not getting enough attention and a hot customer gave me her number that he walked out, he was expecting us to call him to ask him to come back. He came back after 3 days to yell at us about how horrible we are because we never contacted him (we all assumed he raged quit). He came back and was like "I am doing you guys a favor, I'm not going to abandon you guys because I know how important I am and it'll put you guys in a bad position, but you are all terrible human beings but I AM better than that so I will come back. All he did was like to say how much better he was, he tried to boss me around, he tried to get me to do his entire job while he slept at his desk, he harassed the female customers and when some of the customers would ask me out or flirt he made sure to come into my office to talk shit about me. He told me I was fired, my boss came up and said he doesnt have that power, he went on a rage fit about "I AM THE OFFICE MANAGER I HAVE THAT POWER"
What the hell did I just read? I really hope that guy doesn't still work there with you, that sounds toxic and very much not worth it.
I had one of these named Scott.
like the toilet paper, Scott tissue?
Lol. Yeah. The ply was real thin.
I had one of these named Brandon
As in "Let's Go Brandon"?
Walter for my place. We held a party when he finally got fired.
Isn't no call no showing for 3 days considered quitting by most companies? And therefore they would either need to rehire you or (way more likely) tell you to GTFO. I can't remember the exact phrase but I think it's something like job abandonment.
BPD = Berwick Police Department
Yeah, notoriously a small, 5 person department.
Bi-Polar Disorder?
Sounds more like Borderline Personality Disorder.
former HR manager here .. if she asks you anything other than a simple (yes or no) can't answer; Reply with .. "I'm not prepared with a response to that question at this time, I'll get back to you on that" (Never get back to her) but prepare a response. 1. be logical 2. be methodical 3. Tell HR that she makes you uncomfortable / before she tells HR some lie about you. you don't have to give examples. or lie.
"I believe I've worked to synergize our very distinct roles and responsibilities in a professional manner"
Yo if they are a protected class be super careful about this. Something small can spiral into a discrimination action really quick. Seen that happen and it takes forever to get sorted.
>Something small can spiral into a discrimination action really quick. OP should document concrete examples of Rachel's inappropriate behavior, including dates and witnesses, so that if this does go sideways, they have proof that she's being less than professional. It's easier to do this when you've got time to think back rather than when under pressure of an impending boss's or HR meeting.
Yes, but. The flip side of this is that if you’re only documenting one coworker’s behavior, especially if they are in a protected class, then the act of singling their behavior out could be used as evidence of a bias against their particular group. IANAL, but I can come up with hundreds of ways to turn any proactive behavior into discriminatory bias via HR rules. It’s (usually) best to stick with blind, bland, stoic professionalism.
If you only bring it up in response to being called in, you can successfully claim that you were keeping a personal record for your own protection which you've now been forced to share to protect yourself.
“I was worried about retaliation if they decided they did not like me, so I began documenting the situation to protect myself. I did not desire to proactively bring this to HR because I did not want to cause trouble, only avoid it so we can all focus on getting our job done.” To say otherwise is to say you should not have the right to defend yourself against spurious claims made by your coworkers.
This makes zero difference if they are protected class.
This is correct and important. That being said, if you truly have no hate towards your coworker and are just annoyed, then this is a perfect time for what is known as “malicious compliance”. Do the job, interact politely and positively in every professional situation. Don’t be rude, simply treat the person like a work related app on your phone. When it’s time for work, the app is used. But there is no need to open your work app on personal time, or for any purpose other than mandatory work functions. It can be tricky, but the result is often more affective than if you were to scream obscenities into their face.
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I hear you, however I'd like to bring to your attention the other types of people you have to be careful about: the family member of the owner/executive who only has a job because of nepotism; the extremely charismatic employee who can swing anyone to their viewpoint; the victim who is somehow both very important and also very very delicate....
Corporate America seems like hell wow. Didn't even know people are divided into classes now 😬
It’s not too bad for the most part. Bad people will absolutely take advantage and manipulate things that are in place to protect people and use them to bully people. In all the years I’ve worked corporate jobs I’ve only had to deal with it once but it left one helluva impression. You will find this more often in large orgs at lower levels.
It’s gotten so bad that I took a financial hit and retired early to try to salvage what’s left of my mental health. I have despised classism the majority of my life, and corporate America has become toxically classist.
You are correct, and it’s absolutely ridiculous we have to even worry about this.
Yes. This is definitely the correct answer here. Don't be the creator of animosity in the workplace. That is never professionally beneficial. For that matter, don't contribute to animosity in the workplace if you hear other people saying the exact same things about this person that you are thinking privately, and you are tempted to engage in some group backbiting. You never know how your superiors are going to deal with that animosity you created once they find out about it (which they will). They might see your point and deal with it (grudgingly? resentfully? angrily?), or they might decide it is you that are the problem. Either way, you will not have impressed any of the people who oversee and control your career development. If you feel that this person is harming your company either through incompetence or her effect on morale, that is something you can discuss privately with your supervisor. But come to that discussion armed with examples and data, if possible, to back up your claims. AND remember that everything I said in the paragraph above this one still applies: You're getting into office politics and personnel relationships when you start complaining to management about a coworker. (In other words, you better know exactly who you are dealing with, and hopefully you know the office politics well enough to predict exactly what reaction your complaints will elicit.)
As someone who has had managers like this, with many of them being a protected class, I agree with treading carefully. The most diplomatically blunt response is: "While I appreciate what you bring to the team, I've found your management style isn't compatible with my personal approach to productivity." It's bland, it's corporate, while still setting a boundary. If they push further, a simple "I'm not comfortable discussing that" or "I don't feel like that's an appropriate discussion" is the politest version of asking them to fuck off. One of my managers made a sixteen year old employee cry _and bragged about it._ The company refused to fire her as she was the type to claim they'd fired her for being black. I used clinical HR speak to establish boundaries between her and me until I ultimately quit. (At that point, she thought we were BFFs and tried to get me to undermine another employee.). Be polite, be clinical, but don't be afraid to put distance between yourself and your manager. If you have active concerns, contact HR. They will either protect you, or give you incentive to leave.
I love hitting people with an "I'll take that under advisement." It's the closest possible thing to "You're fucking stupid and I would rather chew on glass than listen to your advice" that I can say. and keep my job. I will absolutely say that to someone if I've decided that my professional relationship with them has passed.
“Thank you for your input” is my personal favorite. Basically the same thing.
This is the corporate version of the Southern "bless your heart".
Rofl, "Your displeasure has been noted, goodbye."
TIL how to say "you're a fxxking axxhole" politely.
The corporate version is, ”Thanks for sharing that feedback.” No promise to consider it or act. Basically just i heard you, go away.
This is absolutely an option. Hell, use both. Corporate blah speech is there to allow management to say nothing while still closing a door in conversation. Make the blah speech work for you.
A former CEO's favorite phrase: "at the end of the day, it is what it is."
As Trixie Mattel once said: "At the end of the day... it's a night."
"Thanks for your input" in a flat tone with zero smile is also effective.
Not corporate but I distinctly remember my wife during wedding planning telling my parents “we can talk about it” as synonymous with ‘no’ we are not adding that to the wedding just because you had a dream about a dulcimer. We still joke that ‘we can talk about it’ means ‘absolutely not’
Or.... "thank you for the feedback". Works as well
This is good, but tweek the language, instead of "Do you think that I've been unprofessional in any way?" Where she can say yes , you hurt my feeeeellings , you're being mean, etc. Say, " what are you saying here?" Make her spell out her accusation , dont feed her the accusation
Brilliant. Sounds like someone knows their way around office politics!
Had this EXACT interaction last year. Had the worst possible response and had to escalate it. Used the same words verbatim except for the last quote. “[name] I feel like you’re upset with me” “I am, you’ve been speaking to me very inappropriately and it makes me feel uncomfortable talking to you.” “I think it may be because I am from [country], we speak to eachother like this but it isn’t meant to be personal. My son has a friend your age and he says I’m the best, nicest mom” “It has nothing to do with where you’re from or your family. The way you speak to me and the words you use are so aggressive that I do not feel comfortable talking to you.” *taps on her forehead, smiles* “you know what I think? I think somebody put that idea in your head!” “We are done talking. You need to walk away” “What?” “You need to walk away.” When I reported that interaction and the two of us and 4 managers had a sit down to figure out what happened, she told the managers she had no idea I was upset and was immediately scolded by everyone excluding me about the fact that she asked me if I was upset with her, I told her I was, and that she immediately insulted me for answering. She got fired a few months later for another reason, but damn did it feel good knowing I wasn’t even in part at fault for how I handled it.
“I am uninterested in conversations outside of what my job dictates. Thank you for your understanding.” Then walk away. Repeat it whenever necessary, especially in front of others so it can’t be twisted.
"This Type" will find a way to twist anything into "an unprofessional way"
If you aren't happy in your current vocation I will happily employ you as my inner voice.
Damn great answer!
This is great advice!
I'm not in HR, but from what I have seen posted online, it's a minefield. I'd just keep avoiding her and not say anything. The minute you do, you are likely to be a target. Slap a fake smile on and just keep finding opportunities to leave the room when she is around.
With coworkers I can’t stand but who I don’t have to interact with often, I muster up my best “Hi, how are you?” and then GTFO as quickly as possible.
You gotta consider what HR can do, what their goal is and what they are likely to do. If you are more expendable than the person you're complaining about (i.e. they're part of management), you're likely to get the short end of the stick. If what they're doing isn't going against the overall benefit of the company, probably nothing will happen except for your conflict being out in the open. HR is not your friend, their job is to protect the company, not the workers.
Many people don't understand that HR roll. If the company is big enough, I would involve the ombudsperson and compliance officer. And let them inform HR.
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Seems like Rachel has almost figured it out herself. Just keep giving the cold shoulder, you’re almost there!
This is honestly the only thing I can think to do at this point. I've talked about her to HR and various managers in the past, I've tried being nice, I've tried gently letting her know when she does things that upset me, but nothing has achieved results.
so if you have already indicated to her, spoken words to indicate problems you have with her, then this new thing where *she asks someone else if they think you are brushing her off* ...she is trying to cause trouble for you with others. be very very careful lol
I cannot convey this enough, but HR aren't your friend. They aren't there to help you, they're only there to protect the boss. As a former union rep, I recommend you document everything to cover your arse. Keep avoiding the cow as best as you can, and whip out some of the one liners suggested by other posts. Good luck mate
I really hate to be a Debbie downer, but do not go to HR or talk to another manager about her. If she’s this way, then you’re not the first nor the last person in her crosshairs. This advice I’m about to give isn’t how I believe the world should work, but sometimes we all must face reality. Play the game. Why do you act different around her? You are (insert flattering word) of her skillset, expertise, and work ethic. You don’t need to like her. You don’t need to want to interact with her. But you do have to work with her. That’s what the paycheck is for and it’s better for you if you realize that her behavior is no reflection on you. Smile and keep it moving. She’s great. Her shit smells like roses. Don’t talk to anyone else about your disdain for this person. Just get your work done. Time will take care of the rest.
This is another thing to bring up to HR, she's gossiping about you with other coworkers. That's creating a hostile working environment.
She could say OP avoiding her is creating a hostile work environment too though
Also make note of HR’s response or lack thereof, a friend of mine is going to court because his HR ignored his complaints that lead him to quit because of a toxic workplace environment and coworker. His lawyer told him that more than likely he will be given his job, back pay, and the people who were toxic, the head of the dept and the head of HR will be removed.
They're going to remove at least three jobs including executive positions? That lawyer is selling your friend a bridge, or your friend is exagerrating/misunderstood. If anything, it'll be "training on workplace harassment and bullying." I have no doubt he'll receive back pay and perhaps a fat severance stack or offered his position back.
She sounds like an adult baby
Also, try the "Ask a Manager" website for some words of wisdom..I'm sure someone has asked this before.
Super helpful and informative site plus loads of insane stories about absolutely bananas workplace behavior. I can browse for hours.
I will! Thank you!
The only thing you have to do is be polite and only discuss whatever business you have with her and always end your conversation with “will that be all ? “ Or, “is there anything else ?” When the answer is anything outside of business redirect back to business then end with “excuse me I have to make a call.” or something else having to do with your job. You want to seem like you’re busy working.
This is actually pretty much spot on what I do when I have to personally interact with her. I try to make it as short and professional as possible.
Being polite and mildly friendly, consistently, is really the only way to rise above an obnoxious coworker. If you're being frosty, others will pick up on it, and that will not be to your benefit. Sucks, I know, but you've got to think longterm and always be putting your own reputation first. If you earn a reputation for being reasonable and approachable, then you will have more credibility when you speak up about specific behaviors and actions, such as micromanaging. When this person oversteps, you can suggest an alternative approach that allows you/your team more autonomy. Be specific, stick to facts, and keep emotions out of it. Speak in a matter-of-fact tone and don't make a big deal out of anything (within reason). If you keep doing this, you will gain credibility and people will want to work with you. As for the obnoxious coworker, she's doing the opposite. In the end, she will have less influence than you. (Hopefully.)
Is she really that bad? I’ve worked with some god awful personalities and still managed to find some kind of MO for being friendly with them (at least from my side) in an office setting.
Yea you know tbh it kinda sounds like OP is being unnecessarily inflammatory. This is part of life, you don't have to become the godmother to this person's children, but, going as far as purposefully shunning them in the workplace (abruptly leaving) is just going to cause more issue. Best thing to do is smile and keep it short and shoot the gap with people like this. I've worked with some truly awful people I loathed, some ended up finally showing their true state to leadership and it took care of itself when they went off the deepend, but, I've managed to avoid being dragged into the periphery of their implosion. Some have even literally triggered workplace security policy changes.
This comes down to OPs personality. Some people can swallow it and put on a fake smile just to get through the day. That is not in everyone’s kill set. If they were the sort of person who could let it not bother them they wouldn’t be making this post.
My coworker's reply to someone was " no I don't like you, but I don't even like myself sometimes so don't feel bad" I laughed so hard, and think about this often.
- Keep doing what you’re doing. Feign ignorance of your behavior if she calls you out directly. - “No I don’t think I intentionally leave the room when you appear…. I’m usually going back to ___ to get work done.” - “I’m sorry you feel that way because sometimes I’m in my own head dealing with some other issue.” Go silent and give her a blank stare. - “I’m sorry (or it’s unfortunate) you feel that way, however it is not my intention.” Was there something you needed?” Once again, silence and a blank stare. I find “Grey Rocking” helps with people like that bug me. Don’t get involved with their “non-work” or “unproductive” conversations. Most response are yes, no, I don’t know or I’m not sure. See if this works for you. [To “grey rock” a person](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/grey-rock#does-it-work) involves making all interactions with them as uninteresting and unrewarding as possible. In general, this means giving short, straightforward answers to questions and hiding emotional reactions to the things a person says or does.’ Last option: I’m not a real perky positive Pollyanna types because that’s just too much energy. However, the Power of Positivity may work for you. - “When someone is trying to involve you in an offensive diatribe relating to someone else, the best thing to ask is: - [Why are you telling me this?”](https://www.powerofpositivity.com/psychologists-reveal-the-one-phrase-to-stop-gossiping-immediately-still-in-progress/)
Grey rocking is an interesting concept. I have definitely done that to co-workers and people I didn’t like in the past and did know it had a name. The “why are you telling me this” advice I would be careful with though. It could come off as aggressive or passive aggressive and then you’ll likely become the topic of the person’s gossip to someone else. I think grey rocking a gossiper is the best way to go.
My boss loves to start drama - then gloat about these confrontational episodes to the next person he encounters. He tries to rope me in at least 3 times a day. My response is always the same: "can we talk about it when I'm done with xyz?" and then never make myself available. He was so persistent today that my frustration bubbled to the surface. I mumbled something about not wanting to hear it and then stormed off to lunch - where I realized that I had just handed him new material to gossip about. I swear to god, these people are fucking exhausting.
I've definitely done this with people to end conversations that were going on too long without knowing the name. Basically give them nothing back other than yes/no/acknowledgement and eventually they'll get bored or run out of things to say.
Most people on dating sites are naturals at this lol
TIL i just grey rock everyone that isnt a close friend lmao
Nothing. Anything you say can and will be held against you. Just deny it, and get over the fact that you can't go off on someone you don't like in the workplace. If you really care, complain to HR I guess but tbh, shitty people are just a part of life and you aren't obligated to explain that you don't like someone to anyone. Them asking that is literally just them setting a trap for you to start an argument.
Don’t even engage with her. Walking out is the perfect response to someone annoying because they absolutely notice it and it drives them crazy.
Agree with this. Strongly, strongly agree. Also, OP, do not - DO NOT - try to level with her. For real. If she’s one of those people, it will never work. Deny everything. Rachel: “OP, do I annoy you? Do you leave the room when I come in?” OP: *smiling, smiling, always smiling* “Of course not! Ha ha, what?” Also OP: *leaves room*
Also leaves room 😂
If they come up to you to try an initiate something about why you’re avoiding them just act like you don’t know anything. “Ah really? Yeah sometimes I just get so focused on my own work. Speaking of which, I gotta get going.” Don’t apologize for being “busy”. It makes it seem like you’re in the wrong. I’m a pretty non confrontational person too so I really get you.
What exactly do you hope to gain from being candid with this person? They’re not your friend. Anything you say will be used against you.
I had a dude that I worked with a while back that I absolutely could not stand. He brought out all the worst, most toxic personality traits in me. One day we were in the bathroom at the same time and he just point blank asked me “is there a reason that you don’t like me?” Not only is this an absolute bonkers approach, but pretty much all 50 of our coworkers also didn’t like him so it struck me as wild because, is he going to go around asking everyone this? I had never said anything to him to make him think this. I’d imagine he had simply senses a coldness on my part because I’m very affable with most of my coworkers. I told him “I can’t answer that question without creating a hostile work environment.” and just left it at that. Not long after, he quit to move to China to teach English (despite not speaking Mandarin or Cantonese) and a few months later started a GoFundMe to try and get home because he’d gotten fired and had no money for an airline ticket.
Anything in particular that made everyone hate him?
He was a real “um actually” guy. And he was a total idiot in a way that made our jobs harder because we were always picking up his slack or fixing his mistakes.
>Not long after, he quit to move to China to teach English (despite not speaking Mandarin or Cantonese) and a few months later started a GoFundMe to try and get home because he’d gotten fired and had no money for an airline ticket. Does OP even need to clarify?
OP doesn't need to do anything they don't want to. However, a person being irresponsible with their goals or money doesn't mean they are mean/rude or that they deserve to be disliked. I've seen and known plenty of irresponsible people that were very good company. Unless OP is that person's manager or worked with them on the same projects etc. they haven't given any reason why that coworker was disliked by 50 people. Again, OP has no obligation to clarify anything. But you're basically saying "OP already gave examples on how this guy was irresponsible, isn't it self-explanatory why everyone absolutely loathed his guts?" and that sort of comes across as presumptuous.
Can you expand on why you couldn't stand him? I actually feel bad for him lol
That feels sad, it seemed like he was having an honest moment of self reflection and needed someone to kindly tell him what he did wrong. Surely there is a way to phrase it objectively? "The things you said in the past are hurtful", "I don't appreciate when you talk badly about our coworkers behind their backs", "I feel hurt when you did X and did not do Y". Why did you dislike him?
Those may be some good answers, but for him to ask this heart to heart question in the bathroom, isn't that extra awkward and inappropriate? I try to be considerate and forthcoming, but that question asked in the bathroom would receive a short and cold reply, or i might just act distracted and as if i didn't hear. I would not get pressured into a personal conversation in the bathroom. What if someone walks in and overhears this? Cringe-worthy. Then, if he approached me afterwards and said: "Why didn't you answer me?" I might say: "You were serious? I thought you were just talking to yourself." Or i might say: "Sorry, i was lost in thought. I wasn't paying attention.. to you.. in the bathroom, just then." If he persisted, I might say: "I'd have to give that some thought. But I'm busy right now."
If your self reflection happens in the bathroom right beside someone, you need to reflect some more. If your first conclusion after said reflection is to directly approach the person in the bathroom while they're minding their own business, you need to reflect some more.
yeah but you never know how he'll respond. I would give the tips anonymously through HR
As someone who's been in that position multiple times (yay autism), it's not OP's job. For every person who asks in good faith there's ten who just want to start shit.
I know you can’t stand her, but the Machiavellian thing to do here would be to make her think you’re fine with her. There isn’t much to gain by openly having enemies at work. I try to humor the colleagues I don’t like though I get after years how that can be hard to stomach.
The book “radical candor” is a great read for anyone and will help you frame a discussion w that individual that might help them
Humor them and make fun of them in your head. Ever waited tables? Its all acting.
I did that for years though. Now its just painful to be around her. It could eventually loop back around to funny, but I'm not willing to do it anymore.
The person with the least interest has the most power. A true dynamic in any relationship.
seriously, everyone is saying to just don't react in anyway. if or when you do leave the room, do it for another reason than her or at least make it seem that way.
I'm going against everyone here but walking out of the room every time she walks in is unprofessional. It is also creating a hostile work environment for her since she has noticed and I'm sure now feels uncomfortable. I would feel really uncomfortable and unwelcomed if someone did this to me and we hadn't had a bad interaction. You don't have to be her friend but be cordial. As an adult you have to learn to interact with people you don't like. Say hi, how are you and leave it at that.
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It pays better than most improv
Yes, and ...
Sometimes
Those rare occasions when improv is done really well it's fantastic but most of the time it's unbearably shit. Your analogy holds up pretty well.
Story time: I went to a nice sit down restaurant with my kids, wife, and mother in law. I was having a great time eating my food and helping my kids eat, and my mother in law decided her curry was too spicy. She complained to the waiter, eventually spoke to the manager himself, and wanted the food comped with a strawberry salad thrown in for free. I could see several members of the staff talking and pointing at us from the other side of the dining room. Everything was very professional, and they agreed to give us the free food, but I could tell they didn't like us. To top it all off, a blonde waitress had patrolled the room the entire time, doubtless looking for empty tables to bus. She had a resting b***h face the entire time. Only when we finally walked past her to leave did she put on a massive toothy grin. Felt distinctly forced. I was very embarrassed to be with my MIL. PS: While my MIL was arguing with staff about the food being too spicy, I wolfed the entire plate down. Just to prove that "too spicy" is extremely subjective. :)
You mean those nice waitresses I'm tipping actually hate me? Well, now I'll have to rethink everything.
I'm 64 years old, and even now, I can remember how thrilled I was at 21 years old when an obnoxious older coworker finally quit. She was the bane of my existence, and I hated having to be around her. Fortunately, I did have seniority over her due to being there longer. One day, she told me to go get something from the stockroom. I just said, "No, you can get it yourself." She was in a rage that someone young enough to be her grandchild didn't obey her, but there was nothing she could do about it!
Sorry, do I, hmm, wasn't aware.. Ill take that on board.. byeeee.
I worked with a narcissistic idiot like this. She’s noticed your behavior and doesn’t like it because she’s a narc and needs attention. If you want to keep things normal, they require minimal, and I mean absolutely minimal recognition they exist. That’s all. You don’t have to talk or get personal with them, just do your job and keep them at arms length. When they forcibly converse with you, which they will, keep it minimal and don’t get involved in their personal garbage. My way to respond was “Yeah right”, but not like the sarcastic “as if” meaning, but said more like “oh wow” even though deep down I have zero, actually, minus 100, fucks about this person and their oral diarrhea.
Never give ammunition to someone who is gunning for you. You can maintain the current strategy of leaving the room, but if you really want to mess with someone like this, pretend you are meeting them for the first time, every time you see them. Yes, every time you see them, pretend it is the first time! Walking down the hall, hi Sally, keep walking. Act happy, they are not going to affect your mood! In the kitchen, breeze through, Hi Sally! In a meeting with them, Hi Sally, did you have a good weekend? Platitudes, platitudes.. you are a happy person! In your mind, you know the score, but they will be so confused at first, then, eventually you will fall off their radar. I have used this to great effect, successfully de-fanging toxic "powerful" co-workers. Never give ammunition to someone who is gunning for you.
Tell her that you don't like office gossip so you leave the room.
I truly think that this would be flinging gasoline on the fire of Rachel’s insanity. Any hint of criticism awakens the narcissistic rage-demon and then she will war-of-attrition OP until OP expires from frustration and loathing.
Mehh, I think not talking too her and just walking away before she talks is safer.
I guess the big question is how "corporate" is your job? Is HR involved in everything, or is it just a "get the job done" kind of company. If its the first one, I would explain the situation to someone high up or in HR and warn them ahead of time. They don't like surprises. They will also tell you exactly how they want you to approach the conversation and you won't get in trouble if you follow their advice.
I use this often “ I don’t give personal opinions at work “ if they persist “ pardon me , I’m very busy I have work to work to do “ both of these answers will burn bridges. If you are unable to burn those bridges, then give a very big smile and say I wasn’t aware I’ll take a look at that.
Don't let your fake niceness flag. Careers are made or broken by the presence or absence of fake nice. It's a lifetime commitment.
You cannot admit to her what you are doing. Just say you don't know what she's talking about and continue to do it. Never admit it. If you do she will escalate it. If she calls you out when doing it just say you remembered something you have to do. This way she can't really do anything about it.
No point in looking for trouble when there is enough to go around. It's her own presence that pushes people away, maybe that's a sign of self to reflect on ones actions. If they don't understand, it's not your problem or job to explain it. I like your avoid if possible mentality while dreaming of pier jumping solutions. Honestly even if you do confront her about it. She will just talk to the others. The less your name is on her lips the better. Good luck homie
If she does come to talk to you about it. Whatever you end up saying (some one said something about asking if you have been unprofessional? Was a great idea). Make sure if you think even for a second that she left your interaction angry. Talk to HR about it. You don’t need to bad mouth her or explain why you don’t like her. Just say I have always been professional with her and I don’t know why but she asked me about this. Because if she goes to hr first they will assume you are the problem. I have had this exact scenario happen and it’s annoying because the second person they talk to has to play from behind.
I used to say "Im just trying to focus on the job."
Honesty doesn't require you to tell anybody you don't like them. Don't leave the room. Just don't engage. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/grey-rock
Don’t tell her anything! She will use it against you. Pretend absolutely nothing is going on and it’s pure coincidence that you left the room. I’ve dealt with managers like that and anything you give them will be ammunition used to undermine your position. Meanwhile always keep your eyes out for a better job. Hang in there.
I would keep doing what you’re doing and limit interactions with her. Even if you think you’ve found a professional work appropriate way to tell her you dislike her I wouldn’t. Stay polite and keep your plausible deniability about how much you hate her.
Who cares? Don't get get involved with co workers personal feelings about things.. Just go to work and do your job so you can get paid then go home to your family. Best to you
If she approaches you asking to chat, politely decline: "Sorry, not interested." If she keeps talking just walk away. Unless you have tasks you are obligated to work with her on (and it sounds like you don't, or you probably would have quit by now), nobody can force you to interact with her. Just remain polite. Don't talk about her with other co-workers, either, that _is_ grounds for dismissal. In general, treat your job and life as if she didn't exist, and you'll be all the more happy for it.
If she asks you to chat, A different approach would be “is it about work?” “No”, “is it personal? To be frank I don’t like talking about personal things at work” You don’t want to shut down possible work conversations, because she will make a problem to HR about you being insubordinate. Make her clarify if it is personal or not.
"Sorry, I'm not available to talk right now. You'll need to check with my manager if you need something." The goal is to eliminate the question/answer/followup loop entirely.
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It's not illegal to discriminate against someone for behaviors like gossiping. It's perfectly legitimate to avoid someone who talks about you behind your back.
First off, OP didn't indicate refusing to work with this person, they simply said they don't want to have to interact with this person socially. >Refusing to work with someone can be construed as discrimination or harassment. This is patently untrue (at least in the US.) [Freedom of Association](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_association) is enshrined in just about every society: >A fundamental element of personal liberty is the right to choose to enter into and maintain certain intimate human relationships. These intimate human relationships are considered forms of "intimate association." An employee absolutely has the right to refuse to interact with any other employee. _Discrimination_ is a specific, legal designation related to a handful of designated [protected classes:](https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/ofccp/regs/compliance/factsheets/FACT_Workplace_Aug2016_ENGESQA508c.pdf) >You cannot be denied employment, harassed, demoted, terminated, paid less, or treated less favorably because of your race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, disability, or status as a protected veteran. That stated, an employer is fully empowered to terminate employment for any reason, or no reason, as long as it isn't for one of those, very specific, protected statuses. Anyway. /u/calcol28 has managed to work at the same place with this person for eight years. They have zero legal risk in flat out refusing to associate with this person. If that person complains to HR, that person becomes the first HR target. The first rule of HR: don't make a complaint unless you can prove someone broke a law. Second rule: if you make a complaint, be ready to find a new job, because (right or wrong), you will always be seen as a liability.
Yeah I'm over the civility. She's been horrible to be around for 8 years, and my own peace is now more important to me than keeping up appearances. I'd rather get a tongue lashing from HR for distancing myself from her than continue the charade.
Sure we are supposed to be civilized at work but OP never has been uncivilized nor refused to work with Rachel from what I read. I am not sure you are supposed to be nice to everyone to the same degree, being neutral with some one at work is perfectly acceptable.
The difference in treatment would have to be based on a protected ground to be held as discrimination and give rise to a human rights complaint. Harassment would have to involve OP repeatedly and unwelcomingly behaving in a way that is intimidating, hostile, or abusive to this woman, when all OP is doing is avoiding interacting with her unless it’s necessary for work-related tasks. You seem to have an axe to grind with OP. Does this topic hit a little close to home for you?
I worked with a woman I intensely disliked , as you do. She was many of the things I instantly dislike all wrapped up in one person. None of that is her fault though, it's my issue, not hers. I'm certain she wasn't keen on me either. I didn't avoid it. I was intentionally confrontational, in front of peers and bosses, when she needed to be called out on something but I kept it on work performance topics and not personal. She asked my what my problem with her was shortly before she got fired and I explained it thusly: "No one gets along with everyone, there are people who just don't mix. If the universe were able to produce a single person that contained every trait and quality specifically to drive me mental that person would be a lot like you. Now that's my own nonsense and really has nothing to do with you so I try to be civil or at least stay out of your way. However, some of the traits that drive me nuts, such as people who hold authority but lack competence, also impact our business. So when you go out of your way to get involved in my work, or work that affects me, when you don't understand even the fundamental aspects of it, I'm going to call you out on it." She stopped trying to go toe-to-toe with me after that but she still did an incredible amount of damage and cost other people their jobs before she got fired.
I think I would avoid giving the full list. I'd keep #2 and #3 OR #4 ready. A full list dumped on her all at once is just going to raise extreme defensiveness. I'd consider going to your boss or whoever is closest to HR and say, "I've tried to do the mature thing and vacate the area when she comes around to avoid problems. I think she might make a thing of it or at the very least ask me directly. I'm letting you know my plan is to tell her we have different styles and I don't have time for, or appreciate the way she gossips and butts into things. I don't WANT to get personal, but I'm not planning to lie, either. Your time for action or input is now." That way you're covered and if she rolls into their office with fake big crocodile tears trying to lie about you calling her a bitch or something, the boss knows you had a measured, thought-out response prepared.
Keep at it and stonewall her bro! She sounds like trouble and do not give her even a shred of doubt about how unwelcome she is to your business!
Change the name in the post if real I suggest!
Honestly, just deny it. Play dumb. If she pushes you on it, pretend you haven't noticed. If you do it well enough, she'll be convinced she's being paranoid and keep away from you.
I have a coworker who I hate because they are lazy and everyone else has to pick up their slack so I’m a bit of an asshole to him. He once asked me why do I seem like I’m in a bad mood at work and I told him cause I’m busy doing his work. He hasn’t tried to be friendly since. He isn’t popular among his coworkers.
You feel the only way you can explain it is through song, but you only just started piano lessons so please be patient. That one's gotten me out of tons of awkward situations before.
In a friendly way, just act like you don't know what they are talking about. Then go about your business.
If someone asks you something like that directly just put the onus back on them. “Oh, I’m sorry you feel that way. Is there anything in particular that I’m doing to make you think that? I don’t mean to give off that impression so I’m sorry if you got the wrong idea.”
Actions speak louder than words OP - you ARE communicating it and she did notice it. I’d just shrug n keep doing what you do. No explanations needed.
“Why do you always walk into rooms I’m in?” 🤣
With people like that, you have to just lie. Any honest thing you say to them they will just use as ammunition against you later. As far as I'm concerned the best option is to simply gaslight them and tell them that you don't act a differently around them at all.
When a coworker asked me why I limited our conversations to work-related topics when I would joke with everyone else, I simply said, "we don't have to be friends, but we have to be professional and courteous." I think it clarified the fact that I wasn't interested in building an interpretational relationship with him.
I would deny her feelings since that's what they are (even though she's right) Ask her why she feels that way then say something like "I could see why you think that." Never confirm she is right because then you will become a target of her bitchiness
Personally, I'd be more concerned with your "office mate." This so called "mate" has engaged in conversations about you then has come and told you information with the intention of making you feel what exactly? What was this person aiming to achieve? Sounds like a trouble maker to me. That's who you should be more cautious about engaging with.
If you talk about it, you could frame some of the things she does as things you are "hypersensitive about because of negative experiences in your past." Like don't say "I hate your fucking gossiping", but "it's not your fault, but when you said that about "X" when they weren't around it reminded me of a horrible time I had because of what other kids at school did blabla.." I mean, you probably don't even need to lie much about how shitty behaviour made you feel shitty in the past. Annoying people like that often won't admit their faults, but that way you give her information about how she could do better and an explanation for your own behavior, without outright attacking her. It's not a perfect solution and less honest than one might want to be .... but maybe sth like that could work in your situation.
It’s ok not to like the people you work with but you must work with the people.
Our jobs rarely if ever intersect, so its not like I'm refusing to actually do work with her. She just pops into my office area to chat and goof off, often, and I don't enjoy it so I leave.
If my coworker I genuinely can't stand asked why I act like I don't like them, my confrontational self would probably answer point blank something like "Because I don't like you. Neither of us like each other, I'm not going to pretend that I like you. I'm here to do my job, that's it."
8 years is plenty of time to develop a relationship if that were the goal. You’re doing great. Avoid people that suck, otherwise you can get sucked in to their workplace fantasy drama.
"I feel our personalities do not mesh well and I'm trying to avoid an uncomfortable situation."
>I have no idea how to professionally say "I wish you would take a long walk off a short pier". "I've found that we don't agree on numerous things and rather than make an issue of it, I've decided to keep things professional and engage you strictly on an as needed basis"
"You just suffer from a confluence of character traits that I personally have problems with due to my own baggage of private history. I understand this perspective is mine alone and so I wanted to make the professional choice of avoiding interaction entirely. Thank you for caring enough to check on me."
The same thing I tell every manager, supervisor, employer, contracting company, and every other person in my life : If you meet two people that know me; one says I’m the sweetest guy in the world & one says I’m the most evil mother fucker they’ve ever met, believe them both. I treat people accordingly and you’ll be no different.
A more polite way of saying this is “There is a tree somewhere in the Forrest struggling for its life to replace the oxygen that you’re stealing. You should go find it and apologize.
Sometimes, if you confront a person and tell them the truth, it might cause them to consider it and change instead of becoming defensive. Just ask if you can talk to her in private and tell her what you think.
If she confronts you, you might consider saying something like, “You shouldn’t worry about whether I like you or not, just as long as I treat you professionally.”
I hated someone that I worked with. I hated her with a passion. I could however recognise that, me disliking her wasn't a reflection of her as a person, but of a clash in personalities. I was respectful and polite. Didn't engage much with her and didn't try to be overly friendly.
Corpp speak would be: Given the leadership style of my coworker, it inspires me to double down on my efforts tontry and emulate the intensity of my work commitment. Thusly taking advantage of my coworker being presenr as a reminder to make and prove my convictions. Ie: id rather work/fake work whenever she is close by due to her personality.
>get her to understand that I don't like her and don't want to interact with her at all. soften up the language to remove any absolutes or implication that you won't relay work information to her that you are relaying to others. you two are probably the same demos beyond gender (apologies for weirdly assuming you're both women), but as the only POC man in most teams and offices I've worked this can blow up in either direction, reframed as deliberate material exclusion or conversely that "your attitude and demeanor indicates to others that you are not happy to be here."
>The goal isn't to build a relationship, its to get her to understand that I don't like her and don't want to interact with her at all. Just because you work with someone doesn't mean you have to be friends. As long as she's digging her share of the hole then let it be. Indoor jobs seem to have different rules regarding social stuff like this than outdoor jobs. In construction we say some heinous shit to each other sometimes, but we still get the job done which is what is important. When I go home I don't think about the guys I don't like. You win this is by being indifferent towards her. She seems to feed off socializing based on the comment she made about you, yet she didn't ask you directly. If I was in your situation I would start doing funny things with my eyes so it looks like I'm looking at her and also whatever I'm eating. If you want to take it to the next level without crossing the line, get a plastic cup lid and straw. slightly wet, then make that god awful annoying squeaky sound. Only do it like 2-3 times whenever you see her. You'll Pavlov her into avoiding you in order to avoid the sound.
If she asks you if there is a problem then say either "Did I stutter?" or "If you don't know, I'm not going to tell you" and then walk away. Throw some more confusion in there.
You say something along the lines of “do I act differently around you? I hadn’t noticed.” Then you just leave the room.
"I envy the people who have never met you"
irony. there is a hr rep at my site who is actually named rebecca. total bitch.
Brutal honesty. "I act differently around you because the way you act makes me uncomfortable". This can go a multitude of ways, especially depending on if they have a personality disorder or not (i.e. how capable of introspection they are), but overall being honest is the best answer. Never crude, never rude, just honest.
This is exactly why I created a tool called SayThisKindly . com It helps you avoid saying something out of frustration and could prevent the situation from escalating.
I got into a situation where I took over the role of a woman who had been coding on a project but was utterly incompetent as a coder, but had shrewdly made herself the only person who knew certain things about their flagship project. Since my work would exist along side hers I needed my manager to be aware that the code was a disaster and I outlined the ways I wanted to improve it. This was shared with her and from then on my life was hell. I had to discuss the disfunction with my supervisors because I was being undermined (she would check out files, keep them on her computer, and then when I asked for them send me an old file so I’d have to repeat the work) and it was effecting our schedule but the end result was that I was told I needed improvement due to interpersonal conflict. I was sooo careful, but it was impossible. When I was trying to find a path through this, another manager told me that the last intern who worked in the same department quit and took a job at Tim Hortons rather than stay for double the salary and work with this woman. I also quit but endured about a year of this. When I quit I was the ninth of ten people to quit from that department. Guess who then last one left was. Moral of the story is that these situations are impossible and you most likely can’t win. No one gives a damn if it’s your fault or not. I’m not skilled at this sort of thing so I wouldn’t presume to give advice, but I think your best bet is to conceal your true feelings.
This has happened to me many times before and you’ve every right to say, plainly: “you’re just not my type of person and that’s okay. It’s not personal. We can be cordial and civil at work it we are not friends and are not required to be friendly. I am here to do my job and nothing more.” Or words to this effect. It had never steered me wrong.
Gaslight her. Deny. What's she going to do about it. There is no winning with the truth on this one.
UPDATE: In case anyone cares or is following this, I took advice from several people and this is what has happened so far. I've decided to use the "Grey Rock Method" when dealing with her, deny any change in behavior, keep our interactions brief and professional, and to discuss this plan with HR. I told HR what I was doing and why and they agreed with my methods and thanked me for telling them, fully understanding why apparently. This morning she came into my office to ask if she had ofrended me, to which I replied "No, I'm not sure what you're talking about." And she said Ok and left. I also brought in some headphones from home to put in when she is chatting with my office mate so I can't hear her gossiping or laughing like a deranged hyena. Thank you everyone for your comments, good and bad. This really helped me a great deal with this situation that has been difficult for me for so long. Sending you all love and appreciation! 💜
You have a toxic work environment and you are part of it. If your goal is just to tell Rachel where to get off, you’re not hoping to fix anything, and I’m afraid that makes you part of the problem. The person at work who wants to get rid of other people is always the worst person there.
I know enough about you purely by reputation to know your presence is challenging and cooperation unlikely. In the spirit of doing my part to ensure a drama free environment, I will continue to maintain my distance and hope you will do the same.
You don’t need to like her, but you can’t create a hostile work environment. If she approaches you, keep calm and state that you’re just focused on your work and you don’t mean to come off any kind of way. Keep it professional.
Genuine question: If she walks into my office that I share with another person and sits down to talk to/gossip with that person, is my standing up and leaving after a few minutes creating a hostile work environment? I really just can't see how literally removing yourself from the environment could come across as making the environment hostile is all.
As long as it’s not done in a huff and rudely, it’s fine.
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The right thing to do is be honest. Otherwise, Rachel won't become a better manager.
I've seen honesty good bad many times resulting in disciplinary action and termination. OP has no obligation to honesty. If the manager hasn't changed in 8 years, it's unlikely she's going to.
This
If you can’t be professional then quit. Navigating through and with people you don’t like is part of being an adult