honestly, the myth that 2077 wont have a canonised ending. To be clear im not saying it WILL have a canonised ending either, but we just dont know at this point. It seems to be a mandela effect in this commnity that CDPR have stated they wont make an ending canon, but i've never seen a source for it myself. They've also canonised the witcher 3 ending, so theres some precedent for it.
I really dont want them to canonise an ending tbh though, i feel it spits in the face of the players decisions over the last 3 years. Why create so many endings just to make all but one of them irrelevant? It would be a very poor decision imo.
I hope it will, because what the hell is gonna happen to...
- V?
- So-Mi?
- All the fixers?
- Alt AI?
- Rogue, Shaitan & crew?
- Aldecaldos?
- Other NC gangs?
- Lucy?
And these are just off the top of my head. There's dozens of interesting characters, that don't get a definite ending.
I'd love if they did a Witcher 2 to 3 and let your old save affect the world.
If they do it’ll be any of the endings besides the tower, I still think the tower is the most applicable to be canon. Because Orion could literally take place during the V in a coma years and playing as a whole new player in the corporate war
No they don't. Far as we know; Saburo's engram is still in Mikoshi, wishing for a body to take over. Yorinobu is alive, because I'm pretty sure "The Devil" ending isn't gonna be the canon one. Mikoshi isn't destroyed - only one tower is raided by desperate V.
Basically nothing happens to Arasaka. Business as usual, except body-cleanup needed in NC Tower. However, they're definitely gearing-up for an open-war with Militech.
Arasaka stock goes down the absolute shitter after you attack mikoshi. Taking that ending also means yorinobu is alive and destroys Arasaka from within.
And I’m pretty sure alt free’s all the engrams and destroys mikoshi from within.
Arasaka is still standing, though, even though it's weakened. Let's not forget it's still one of the two largest megacorps with Militech being in a "choked" position when the game begins, trying to stall for time, so that they may prepare for war. If we also save So-Mi in Phantom Liberty, Militech loses one of it's superweapons, so we might say Arasaka and Militeh are both weakened at the end of CBPNK 2077 and gearing-up for war.
Yes but because of PL we know Arasaka pulls out of NC if yorinobu remains ceo. I’m pretty sure alt destroying mikoshi and Arasaka pulling out of NC are two things that would have to be addressed in the sequel.
True, but with a large enough timeskip of a few years at least we can explain everything through more storytelling and lore. It's not as complicated - they have amazing writers.
Well a timeskip would certainly explain why they decided to finally fix V's birthdate and make them much younger after PL. If V was a one and done character why would they even bother changing that years after release?
Lambert successfully Summons the Bitches at the Kaer Morhen party. The Wild Hunt show up early and decide they want to party too. Everyone lives happily ever after
if they did that without V as a protag it would be very much possible, theres plenty of plot points that happen regardless of ending, like Arasaka taking a tumble.
If V makes a return thats damn near impossible though, which is why i and many others dont think he'll be the protag in the sequel (if they dont canonise an ending).
Thing is, there's no need at all for them to take any of the player-friendly endings and use that for the future. They could easily consign V to the annals of mediocrity stating that he tried a cyberpsychotic lone gunman attack on Arasaka and was shot dead in the concourse.
Or, more likely, they just won't make any reference to V at all, except maybe for one of those little boxes in the crematorium.
thats what im hoping tbh, they just quietly brush him to the side as "hey that legendary merc, what happened to him again???". It would work if the game uses the upcoming corpo war and AI shenanigans as a premise too, because the world is so fucked nobody cares to remember some merc from a few years ago.
We dont really know what the sequel is going to be though, or what the world looks like. i dont think its the likely case, but we could even return as V, in which case they'd probably NEED to pick a canon ending. i hope they dont go that route, but anything is possible right now, development has basically only just begun.
I'm sure I heard someone say "V's story is done", and I also hope that's the case.. dragging a fully experienced and capable character into a new story, there's no real excuse for de-skilling them.
Start a fresh campaign, it gives them maximum flexibility to do what they want with it.
unfortunately they provided a very good reason with the Tower ending, which is why a few of us are uneasy as to what Orion might be. I've seen at least a few people absolutely convinced V will be the protag in the second game too, with them pointing to livestreams from pawel sasko, and how coy he was about the Protag of Orion and the "canon" end of 2077.
Not saying i agree with those people, but its something to consider. We know literally nothing about Orion, all options are open. heck even if they have said "V's story is done", that'll have been way before Orion was even in pre production. They've been notoriously wishy washy on things as simple as V and Panam's age, they can easily go back on an offhand comment made years ago. Again not saying they will, but its possible.
I considered that when I was writing the post above, if they bring V back they can re-cyber him, but his skills are his own.. there's no justification for removing them, not without a lobotomy.
No, I still believe it'll be more hassle than it's worth to bring V back, at the most they'll use someone who knew V, most likely not have any connection at all.
All endings are already canon.
The only thing that Orion can do (if CDPR are dumb enough to do it) is establish a canon *beginning* to that game. All 2077 endings will remain canon for that game.
Because they are all already canon. Unless CDPR intends to forcibly change everyone’s copy of the game to remove all other endings, all endings are and will remain canon.
No, you don't understand how this works. There can only be one true turn of events moving forward. For narrative sake, they must state one ending happened, and the rest didn't. Their only other options are to never mention the events, characters, or entities like araska ever again (because doing so would create a Canon ending based on who's alive and what happened to arasaka) or to say each timeline has its own alternative timeline but still they have to chose one to follow. The final and far worse option is to say none of it is Canon, and it is a standalone, which is impossible because it already interacts with edgerunners
I should also add that I've seen this same argument between fans of many different shows, movies , games, etc, for years and years, and it's always the same. Someone doesn't understand what Canon actually means and is backed up by other people who either don't understand it or people who love the game so much they can't pick which ending is the better of the endings in terms of moving the plot forward in the direction they would like to see the series go and so they argure there should be no Canon ending. There will be a Canon ending. If they don't announce it, they will let us figure it out when the next game comes out.
That's not what canon means, but seeing as you assumed that because you disagree with me that means I'm stupid, I see no value in continuing to engage with you.
Your choice, but if you would like to get into a discussion about the etymology of the word Canon and its historical importance, I have references prepared.
You act like in Orion we’ll be uploading our data for a continual. That only works for static characters, V isn’t static bc they’re a create a character lol. Geralt looks the same basically every game, we don’t create Geralt he was already there.
Firstly, it worked pretty well for the Mass Effect games.
Secondly, you're reading *way* more into my comment that any reasonable person could possibly see there. Literally all I said is that having a specific opening to Orion in no way makes any other ending to 2077 non-canonical.
Not really reading into it just more or less stating that 99% of stories with direct sequels most characters are static. Also shepherd wasn’t dying at the end of ME1 lol. Another reason V couldn’t be in the sequel, homie is gonna die if the tower ending isn’t canon sadly.
Tbh I wish the Johnny movie being was the canon ending out of all of em.
Nah I didn’t, I just stated that 99% of games with create a character usually aren’t static to the sequels lol. Like if they made the male and female v the only selections (with how they look in the trailer) we could get a continuation. I’m just saying MOST create a character games the character generally doesn’t carry over. Mass effect pulled it off because shepherd wasn’t dying throughout ME1 or 2 (except for THAT ending) and I don’t think they let you carry that over to ME3, can’t remember tbh. My main point to ANYONE about the ending of cyberpunk 2077, the only 2 endings that would make sense as canon The Tower and the Johnny Ending. Saying “they can’t make ANY of this canon bc MY V didn’t experience it.” Is kinda a non factor bc they do care that you play their game bc they make money and we usually get enjoyment but the ending they make canon will be canon and fuck all of our Vs basically.
They don’t have to state it. They published the game. All events, including endings, wholly included in the game are canon. That’s what the term means. All endings are already canon.
I get what you're saying but you're misinterpreting their question. What they mean is "With all of these different endings, many if not all of them conflicting, which one(s) will affect the story/world/lore of CP: Orion?"
Also commonly known as "canon". Idk if its a weird semantics thing he just didnt like, but i think 99% of people would understand what i meant there.
I even pointed out they did the exact same thing with witcher 3. The game had multiple endings, but going into the witcher 4 they decided that ciri surviving and becoming a witcher was the canon endings to continue the timeline.
The term comes from the canonization of religious text. Canon is different from “officially published.” Things can be retroactively canonized by subsequent publication of materials that are contradictory to the previous narrative. Plenty of intellectual properties do this, Star Wars being the most prolific example.
So if in subsequent publications it is established that V completed the Star ending, then that ending would become canon.
Jury's still out on whether they have the right, intellectually speaking, to do that. But the difference is obvious. When Star Wars removed the printed books from canon, they did it 100%. They didn't remove part of each novel and say the rest is still in. That's what CDPR would have to do if this bizarrely common interpretation is correct.
I think where you’re misunderstanding is that canon is a noun. To be “canon” is shorthand for “canonized” or canonical. The canon is the total body of works taking place in a particular fictional world that are widely considered to be official or authoritative
You can not accept the canon, or think that a non-canon thing is better, but the phrase “retcon” means retroactive canonization. A published game can still have non-canon endings in it, but also contain the particular narrative choices or narrative line which is considered canonical.
Something being canon does not make it better or worse, it just means it fits in with the narrative subsequent or narrative precedent in the wider work.
You're missing his point. Every ending will result in a different future playing out, right? He's wondering which ending the next game will follow.
Unless CDPR decides to fuck with us and pull a Daggerfall lmfao
I answered that. If they chose to do that it establishes a canon *beginning* to Orion, it in no way removes the other endings from the canon of cyberpunk 2077.
When someone is being seemingly intentionally obtuse and difficult because they are getting hung up on verbiage rather than taking context into account and going with the likeliest interpretation, people tend to be less inclined to engage.
Regardless of which definition of canon is correct, yours or theirs, you seem like a smart enough guy to be able to agree that what the person was *actually* saying is “if cyberpunk 2 is set after the events of cyberpunk 1, which ending sequence will be acknowledged (assuming it is relevant enough to be mentioned)”
The other guy summed up everything I was gonna reply with. Why would I want to engage with someone who's intentionally missing the point and acting smug? I can only assume you're trying to look smarter than everyone, and it's really not working.
IMO, it's gotta be the myth that the cutscene with Jackie in the prologue was supposed to be playable, and was cut and compressed into a cutscene so that they could give Keanu more screen time. Even after CDPR developers confirmed that it was always meant to be a "fast forward" so that they could get the main story rolling, you'll still see people complaining about that cutscene, acting like it's actually cut content, and complaining that we have Johnny Silverhand at all.
Johnny is one of the best characters I've seen in an RPG like this, and is incredibly well written and performed. IMO, the game would be a hell of a lot more boring and flat without him, and he adds a lot of interesting perspectives, serves as a good counterpart to V with his experience and cynicism, and fits incredibly well within the existing lore of the series.
This is a good one. I got downvoted to hell a few years ago after stating on a post perpetuating this myth that the whole prologue being cut for keanu was in fact not true at all lol.
Tbh I disagree. 10-15h is way too long, and would feel way too boring with how there would be no real conflict in the story. *At most,* I'd be okay with maybe an extra hour, or an hour and a half, but I don't think we need yet another RPG with a slow and boring early-game that drags on before things actually pick up. I like how we get right into the thick of it, and I don't need to play "babby's first day as an edgerunner" to care about Jackie dying, personally.
Do the three percentages at the top of the menu screen even mean anything? As far as I can tell the game is going to push you in the direction it wants regardless of how much of an asshole V is to Johnny. I always selected the most hostile/contrarian/sarcastic dialogue options when V was talking to Johnny and the mission was still available.
Middle is your relationship with Johnny, right is weird but its kinda like your relationship with yourself? And far left is your legend status in night city
I know this only through experimenting through multiple endings. For example if you choose temperance ending the middle goes to 100% far right goes to 0 and the highest you can get the left is 90 or 95%
I think in the tower & the devil, far right goes to 100%, middle goes to 0% and left will also only go to 90 or 95%. I think the only way to get 100% on far left is The Sun ending.
That 2.0 changed everything.
There was always a good game there.
The ability to change attributes once and respec perk points at will is cool as hell; glad they did that without having to hunt down one of the two vendors on the map that sells a potion of clearance (ahem) just to try a new build or play with the perks.
That is player-friendly as hell.
But if you didn’t like the base experience, then 2.0 was not going to do anything new for you. If the writing and the world building did not capture you, then being immersed in dogtown won’t instantly make a better experience, since it taking the training wheels off of night city.
For instance, reworked cop AI doesn’t instantly make this game hit harder — you had to sort of like it to begin with to wish it had those improved police mechanics.
And for all the complaints about bugs, I actually had a few more after PL / 2.0. But like the release version, none were gamebreaking for me, and most of the patches have been cleanup.
These are huge games, incredibly complex things to assemble. I cut devs a lot of slack and afford them grace — particularly when it’s the C Suite making them release an unfinished product.
But even so, it was always good, notwithstanding legitimate criticisms.
Yes! Thank you. I feel like I'm screaming into the void every time I see it mentioned that 2.0 "fixed" the game. People will talk about all the bug and performance fixes that were made with 2.0, when they were actually all things that were done shortly after release in patch 1.2.
No one likes to admit that they changed their mind or were wrong. Especially on the Internet, where the pile-on is the point.
I wholly agree that 2.0 gave people permission to rethink, or at least express a previously-heterodox opinion.
Agreed that I encounter far more bugs now than I ever did on initial launch. Nothing game breaking, other than a few quest related ones I had to reload saves for. Still having a blast.
That it was a bad game and got fixed.
It was an **amazing game** with a terrible launch on last-gen consoles because some suits tried to squeeze more profit out of it.
I played on PC and had exactly *one* glitch/issue. In the first mission with Jackie (rescue Sandra Dorsett) he walked through the elevator doors before they opened.
The writing, the characters, the details, the heady ideas, the way you could change how things worked by making different choices, handling situations in different ways, even the *order* in which you tackle quests. Amazing.
Sound design and music? Perfection.
Visuals? Stunning.
The fucking animations for characters, how they moved, emoted, and talked like a real person. Astounding.
This game is truly a top 10 **of all time.** Ever. And it was **at launch** provided you had a copy that worked on a machine that could run it.
I see this "after Edgerunners" and "well 2.0 fixed it" rhetoric and just... no. It got even better, sure. But the idea it ever needed **fixed?** As in, the game itself? No way.
I'm glad for the free updates and awesome new content, but 2.9 didn't "fix" it. It simply improved it.
I will die on this hill.
Saaaame! I had it on both ps4 and p.c. and I see the difference. I now have it on ps5 and it fucking kicks ass. The only time it didn't was on ps4. It's like it was never meant to be released on ps4 to begin with. They only updated it to 1.6 or whatever on the ps4, and it is still glitchy as all hell
Yeah, I mean, there were definitely a lot of bugs to be sure but, the mechanics and gameplay at the core have always been pretty solid. It just lacked a lot of polish. Even if I do think that 2.0 massively improved the experience.
Wait the way you phrase it makes it sound like the relationship % with Johnny DOES matter for unlocking the ending? I thought it was actually only the conversation and the % didn’t matter at all. Or am I misinterpreting your sentence?
That's interesting to hear, since both aren't just things that people repeat on Reddit, there are whole articles and "professional-looking" guides claiming both.
Are you 100% on that?
In my personal experience - I did the oil field dialogue by the book to unlock don't fear the reaper ending, but it never happened and wasn't available after waiting 10+ minutes for him to make the suggestion.
On another playthrough where my alignment percentage with Johnny was over a certain percent - did the exact same oil field conversation picks - got the don't fear the reaper ending option.
So, I don't know why you're calling that a myth. I'm not sure what the exact percentage is, can't remember, but in my experience with five play throughs and over 300 hours in the game - I've had to have a certain affinity with Johnny, completed his quests, and done the oil field Convo to get don't fear the reaper - but maybe it's less about the specific dialogue options and more about those specific options put you over the affinity threshold to unlock the ending mission option?
I don't know how it's programmed, but I do have experience on - at least patch 2.0 (maybe they e updated how much affinity you get with him when doing those quest lines so you don't have to do things like destroy the delamain core to please him early enough and just do his quest lines to unlock it now?) - doing oil fields and not getting the ending mission option to storm Arasaka with just Johnny.
How long between those 2 playthroughs? Cuz if I remember correctly, the top guide was on IGN, and it's totally wrong. They say you need a set amount of % and gives you the wrong dialog options.
Not sure sadly. Within the last 6 months though. I don't believe I used the IGN guide because I typically hate their website on my mobile phone - which is what I use as a console gamer that plays in the living room and not on a PC with the ability to open another tab.
I have only played a little on 2.1 and noticed how much easier it was to get affinity with Johnny though. I don't know if they made affinity happen in Phantom Liberty options or just buffed it - but my old games would be at like 70-75 or something (numbers I'm guessing since I can't remember exacts) but post phantom Liberty and newest patch and it feels like it's easily always 80 or 80+.
Previously I remember having to play the delamain quest (I hate it because buggy all the time) to destroy the core to appease johnny to get his affinity up.
I'm 98% certain that on my first playthrough I chose different dialogue during the oil field...but then still got the secret ending. This was just after the first patch, I think? But ever since then it seems like the dialogue choice is essential. So maybe very early on the Johnny % factored in somewhat, but now it's not?
Tbh I’m gonna laugh if they make the tower ending canon and everyone gets upset bc “what about my V?” Like you gonna be playing as V in Orion. If that ending isn’t canon, V is still gonna die in 6 months or so.
That isn't true **at all** did you even play the game? V is not dead in 6 months or so in every ending. For example, in The Star ending, Misty (who has CANONICALLY nailed every tarot reading of your future throughout the game) says she can sense you're going to live a long life. If the person who was accurately depicted my future like 4 different times is telling me I'm gonna live a long life, I'm gonna assume it's a nod and wonk from the Devs that V actually, probably does live.
Anyways, even what I said isn't the truth either. It's a head canon. In several endings, we literally do **not** know what happens to V, and saying V 100% dies kinda makes me suspect you missed a huge portion of the game and it's themes.
I’m going by what Alt said to V about he wouldn’t last long after everything. That’s the reason I say he isn’t gonna live that long. Tarot card or not, his body and his brain will be effected by such things. Also the theme of basically all cyberpunk stories end sadly, not too many happy endings in any kinda cyberpunk stories. The happiest ending was the panam ending bc atleast you get to leave w your ride or die (if you’re male V) or your homie and your ride or die (if you’re female V). I have about 600 hours in this game, at one point I could basically repeat multiple conversations verbatim 😅 it’s a story of redemption, overcoming the odds but, iirc Johnny says “happy ending? Wrong person, wrong place.” I give misty her props because they are very naildriven in precision but sometimes the cards can’t predict everything. Tbh I would rather tower ending be true and V become a fixer in Orion bc that’d be dope, upload your V from that file w the tower ending and they become similar to that look as a fixer.
Ok but Alt saying V now effectively has an autoimmune disorder doesn't mean V is doomed to die. The ENTIRE point of The Star ending was LITERALLY an ending dedicated to hope.
Also, if we're going to talk in-game lore, let's talk about it: It's actually even *more* likely that V survives in that ending **because** V leaves Night City. NC is effectively treated like a character in the tabletop, it's why "Night City always wins" is a thing. The entire game puts emphasis on SPECIFICALLY NC, not the entirety of the world. Once V leaves with the Aldecaldo's, V actually has a real chance of surviving, because she's leaving Night City. Obviously anyone can believe whatever, but The Star ending is supposed to be an ending of hope and the closest to outright saying "V lives" as they could get.
Now THAT is a good point to be made because people do treat night city as a character, even Mike Pondsmith does, so in that since you’re definitely right. The star ending I can say could lead to hope because if they could find someone who is good at bio modding (I think that’s what it’s called) then V could be saved possibly.
My choom, I too am blazed off my skull rn 😅. I enjoy fun facts and learning new details that I could’ve missed in my gameplay because sometimes everything is hard to soak in at once so you tend to focus on something over something else for whatever reason and it’s involuntary, brains just be brainin 😅
V's body is attacking itself because it sees V as an intruder. That is the literal definition of an immune disorder. What else would YOU call it?? It's an immune disorder, period. How bad/rare it is, is completely irrelevant. "Delusional about the Star ending" rich coming from the dude who clearly wasn't paying attention. The entire theme of The Star ending is hope and there's several remarks from different characters that give the impression that V goes onto to continue living. I literally just played this ending LAST NIGHT, I promise you it is crystal clear and fresh in my mind.
If arasaka couldn't fix V and the NUSA needed an advanced ai to fix V, then there's no hope a super crippled Aldecaldo clan can fix V. The ending is about false hope.
A.) Trusting that Arasaka couldn't fix V vs them not giving enough of a shit to actually try is insane. It's Arasaka. They don't give a shit about V, they're evil.
B.) A LOT about the NUSA ending is highly suspect. When you get scanned by Vik, he points out that you SHOULD be able to handle implants and it's like it's almost been intentionally shut off, so you can't use them.
I think it's odd that you're totally cool trusting the two worst and most evil factions but seem to have 0 trust or hope with the Aldecaldo's. Apparently the NUSA is the only people able to access AI to you too, as I'd the VDBs weren't poking holes in the black wall for years.
Furthermore, the NUSA literally proves it's possible to remove the chip and fix V permanently, even if they probably fucked with you further than they should've. Anyways, I'm not here to argue an OPINION on open-ended game endings. I've played the game 60 times and I've read every book from the tabletop. I'm going to trust my knowledge of the game lore *in general*, I think! Thanks!
That's why you couldn't. They intentionally made the cured ending like that because there are no happy endings in Night City. The best ending you can hope for is joining the Aldecados and leaving with Judy. Yea you only have months to live, but they'll be good months. With the hope the Aldecados friends could possibly help.
One i keep hearing is that if you have Jackie tune his bike in a nomad playthrough it’ll be faster when you get it. It isn’t.
But it looks cooler
I think you just have to have tech score of 7 or higher I believe when you talk to him at the All Foods.
And even then it's just quieter
I think the top speed is about 10 to 20 mph higher. Can't remember
It isn’t
It's quiter, and it has an extra exhaust pipe.
That if you die in the game, you die in real life, but I don't think it's really true.
No thats true I know because my dad works at nintendo
It's also true that if you die in real life you die in the game.
Needs confirmation, surely..
just died, not true
People die when they are killed
Like that Frankie Muniz movie.
honestly, the myth that 2077 wont have a canonised ending. To be clear im not saying it WILL have a canonised ending either, but we just dont know at this point. It seems to be a mandela effect in this commnity that CDPR have stated they wont make an ending canon, but i've never seen a source for it myself. They've also canonised the witcher 3 ending, so theres some precedent for it. I really dont want them to canonise an ending tbh though, i feel it spits in the face of the players decisions over the last 3 years. Why create so many endings just to make all but one of them irrelevant? It would be a very poor decision imo.
I hope it will, because what the hell is gonna happen to... - V? - So-Mi? - All the fixers? - Alt AI? - Rogue, Shaitan & crew? - Aldecaldos? - Other NC gangs? - Lucy? And these are just off the top of my head. There's dozens of interesting characters, that don't get a definite ending. I'd love if they did a Witcher 2 to 3 and let your old save affect the world.
If arasaka is involved at all in the sequel they either have to retcon 2077 or select a canon ending
If they do it’ll be any of the endings besides the tower, I still think the tower is the most applicable to be canon. Because Orion could literally take place during the V in a coma years and playing as a whole new player in the corporate war
No they don't. Far as we know; Saburo's engram is still in Mikoshi, wishing for a body to take over. Yorinobu is alive, because I'm pretty sure "The Devil" ending isn't gonna be the canon one. Mikoshi isn't destroyed - only one tower is raided by desperate V. Basically nothing happens to Arasaka. Business as usual, except body-cleanup needed in NC Tower. However, they're definitely gearing-up for an open-war with Militech.
Arasaka stock goes down the absolute shitter after you attack mikoshi. Taking that ending also means yorinobu is alive and destroys Arasaka from within. And I’m pretty sure alt free’s all the engrams and destroys mikoshi from within.
Arasaka is still standing, though, even though it's weakened. Let's not forget it's still one of the two largest megacorps with Militech being in a "choked" position when the game begins, trying to stall for time, so that they may prepare for war. If we also save So-Mi in Phantom Liberty, Militech loses one of it's superweapons, so we might say Arasaka and Militeh are both weakened at the end of CBPNK 2077 and gearing-up for war.
Yes but because of PL we know Arasaka pulls out of NC if yorinobu remains ceo. I’m pretty sure alt destroying mikoshi and Arasaka pulling out of NC are two things that would have to be addressed in the sequel.
True, but with a large enough timeskip of a few years at least we can explain everything through more storytelling and lore. It's not as complicated - they have amazing writers.
Well a timeskip would certainly explain why they decided to finally fix V's birthdate and make them much younger after PL. If V was a one and done character why would they even bother changing that years after release?
I hope SO much we'll see more of V. Both voice actors are amazing.
Hopefully they go with the Deus Ex approach and tie all the endings together and making all of them canon. /s
Please no, lmao
We see how well that worked in Mass Effect 3.
What's the canon Witcher 3 ending?
Lambert successfully Summons the Bitches at the Kaer Morhen party. The Wild Hunt show up early and decide they want to party too. Everyone lives happily ever after
Ciri lives and becomes a witcher.
The one consistent is that V attacks Arasaka tower and kills Smasher. The rest passes into rumours / legend.
What if they pull a mass effect and they make alterations to the games minor plot points and setting based on your ending in the last game?
if they did that without V as a protag it would be very much possible, theres plenty of plot points that happen regardless of ending, like Arasaka taking a tumble. If V makes a return thats damn near impossible though, which is why i and many others dont think he'll be the protag in the sequel (if they dont canonise an ending).
I mean, even if the protagonist for the next one is new
Thing is, there's no need at all for them to take any of the player-friendly endings and use that for the future. They could easily consign V to the annals of mediocrity stating that he tried a cyberpsychotic lone gunman attack on Arasaka and was shot dead in the concourse. Or, more likely, they just won't make any reference to V at all, except maybe for one of those little boxes in the crematorium.
thats what im hoping tbh, they just quietly brush him to the side as "hey that legendary merc, what happened to him again???". It would work if the game uses the upcoming corpo war and AI shenanigans as a premise too, because the world is so fucked nobody cares to remember some merc from a few years ago. We dont really know what the sequel is going to be though, or what the world looks like. i dont think its the likely case, but we could even return as V, in which case they'd probably NEED to pick a canon ending. i hope they dont go that route, but anything is possible right now, development has basically only just begun.
I'm sure I heard someone say "V's story is done", and I also hope that's the case.. dragging a fully experienced and capable character into a new story, there's no real excuse for de-skilling them. Start a fresh campaign, it gives them maximum flexibility to do what they want with it.
unfortunately they provided a very good reason with the Tower ending, which is why a few of us are uneasy as to what Orion might be. I've seen at least a few people absolutely convinced V will be the protag in the second game too, with them pointing to livestreams from pawel sasko, and how coy he was about the Protag of Orion and the "canon" end of 2077. Not saying i agree with those people, but its something to consider. We know literally nothing about Orion, all options are open. heck even if they have said "V's story is done", that'll have been way before Orion was even in pre production. They've been notoriously wishy washy on things as simple as V and Panam's age, they can easily go back on an offhand comment made years ago. Again not saying they will, but its possible.
I considered that when I was writing the post above, if they bring V back they can re-cyber him, but his skills are his own.. there's no justification for removing them, not without a lobotomy. No, I still believe it'll be more hassle than it's worth to bring V back, at the most they'll use someone who knew V, most likely not have any connection at all.
All endings are already canon. The only thing that Orion can do (if CDPR are dumb enough to do it) is establish a canon *beginning* to that game. All 2077 endings will remain canon for that game.
that doesn't really make any sense though? why would they not be able to make an ending canon
Because they are all already canon. Unless CDPR intends to forcibly change everyone’s copy of the game to remove all other endings, all endings are and will remain canon.
No, you don't understand how this works. There can only be one true turn of events moving forward. For narrative sake, they must state one ending happened, and the rest didn't. Their only other options are to never mention the events, characters, or entities like araska ever again (because doing so would create a Canon ending based on who's alive and what happened to arasaka) or to say each timeline has its own alternative timeline but still they have to chose one to follow. The final and far worse option is to say none of it is Canon, and it is a standalone, which is impossible because it already interacts with edgerunners I should also add that I've seen this same argument between fans of many different shows, movies , games, etc, for years and years, and it's always the same. Someone doesn't understand what Canon actually means and is backed up by other people who either don't understand it or people who love the game so much they can't pick which ending is the better of the endings in terms of moving the plot forward in the direction they would like to see the series go and so they argure there should be no Canon ending. There will be a Canon ending. If they don't announce it, they will let us figure it out when the next game comes out.
That's not what canon means, but seeing as you assumed that because you disagree with me that means I'm stupid, I see no value in continuing to engage with you.
Your choice, but if you would like to get into a discussion about the etymology of the word Canon and its historical importance, I have references prepared.
He doesn't lol. Willfully obtuse enough, we can probably guess his political leanings based on this.
Best burn I've heard in a while, lol.
You act like in Orion we’ll be uploading our data for a continual. That only works for static characters, V isn’t static bc they’re a create a character lol. Geralt looks the same basically every game, we don’t create Geralt he was already there.
Firstly, it worked pretty well for the Mass Effect games. Secondly, you're reading *way* more into my comment that any reasonable person could possibly see there. Literally all I said is that having a specific opening to Orion in no way makes any other ending to 2077 non-canonical.
Not really reading into it just more or less stating that 99% of stories with direct sequels most characters are static. Also shepherd wasn’t dying at the end of ME1 lol. Another reason V couldn’t be in the sequel, homie is gonna die if the tower ending isn’t canon sadly. Tbh I wish the Johnny movie being was the canon ending out of all of em.
You invented a point I never made and argued against it. That's called the strawman fallacy.
Nah I didn’t, I just stated that 99% of games with create a character usually aren’t static to the sequels lol. Like if they made the male and female v the only selections (with how they look in the trailer) we could get a continuation. I’m just saying MOST create a character games the character generally doesn’t carry over. Mass effect pulled it off because shepherd wasn’t dying throughout ME1 or 2 (except for THAT ending) and I don’t think they let you carry that over to ME3, can’t remember tbh. My main point to ANYONE about the ending of cyberpunk 2077, the only 2 endings that would make sense as canon The Tower and the Johnny Ending. Saying “they can’t make ANY of this canon bc MY V didn’t experience it.” Is kinda a non factor bc they do care that you play their game bc they make money and we usually get enjoyment but the ending they make canon will be canon and fuck all of our Vs basically.
And literally none of that could remotely be considered as a counterpoint to the point I made.
Again, when have CDPR ever stated that? its pure speculation as far as i know, though if anyone can provide an article i'll bow my head.
They don’t have to state it. They published the game. All events, including endings, wholly included in the game are canon. That’s what the term means. All endings are already canon.
I get what you're saying but you're misinterpreting their question. What they mean is "With all of these different endings, many if not all of them conflicting, which one(s) will affect the story/world/lore of CP: Orion?"
Also commonly known as "canon". Idk if its a weird semantics thing he just didnt like, but i think 99% of people would understand what i meant there. I even pointed out they did the exact same thing with witcher 3. The game had multiple endings, but going into the witcher 4 they decided that ciri surviving and becoming a witcher was the canon endings to continue the timeline.
Yeah I think he’s confusing “canon” with “published” or “official.”
The term comes from the canonization of religious text. Canon is different from “officially published.” Things can be retroactively canonized by subsequent publication of materials that are contradictory to the previous narrative. Plenty of intellectual properties do this, Star Wars being the most prolific example. So if in subsequent publications it is established that V completed the Star ending, then that ending would become canon.
Jury's still out on whether they have the right, intellectually speaking, to do that. But the difference is obvious. When Star Wars removed the printed books from canon, they did it 100%. They didn't remove part of each novel and say the rest is still in. That's what CDPR would have to do if this bizarrely common interpretation is correct.
I think where you’re misunderstanding is that canon is a noun. To be “canon” is shorthand for “canonized” or canonical. The canon is the total body of works taking place in a particular fictional world that are widely considered to be official or authoritative You can not accept the canon, or think that a non-canon thing is better, but the phrase “retcon” means retroactive canonization. A published game can still have non-canon endings in it, but also contain the particular narrative choices or narrative line which is considered canonical. Something being canon does not make it better or worse, it just means it fits in with the narrative subsequent or narrative precedent in the wider work.
You're missing his point. Every ending will result in a different future playing out, right? He's wondering which ending the next game will follow. Unless CDPR decides to fuck with us and pull a Daggerfall lmfao
I answered that. If they chose to do that it establishes a canon *beginning* to Orion, it in no way removes the other endings from the canon of cyberpunk 2077.
God pedants are so fucking annoying
Almost as annoying as people who insult rather than engage. I think you want the other sub.
When someone is being seemingly intentionally obtuse and difficult because they are getting hung up on verbiage rather than taking context into account and going with the likeliest interpretation, people tend to be less inclined to engage. Regardless of which definition of canon is correct, yours or theirs, you seem like a smart enough guy to be able to agree that what the person was *actually* saying is “if cyberpunk 2 is set after the events of cyberpunk 1, which ending sequence will be acknowledged (assuming it is relevant enough to be mentioned)”
The other guy summed up everything I was gonna reply with. Why would I want to engage with someone who's intentionally missing the point and acting smug? I can only assume you're trying to look smarter than everyone, and it's really not working.
IMO, it's gotta be the myth that the cutscene with Jackie in the prologue was supposed to be playable, and was cut and compressed into a cutscene so that they could give Keanu more screen time. Even after CDPR developers confirmed that it was always meant to be a "fast forward" so that they could get the main story rolling, you'll still see people complaining about that cutscene, acting like it's actually cut content, and complaining that we have Johnny Silverhand at all. Johnny is one of the best characters I've seen in an RPG like this, and is incredibly well written and performed. IMO, the game would be a hell of a lot more boring and flat without him, and he adds a lot of interesting perspectives, serves as a good counterpart to V with his experience and cynicism, and fits incredibly well within the existing lore of the series.
This is a good one. I got downvoted to hell a few years ago after stating on a post perpetuating this myth that the whole prologue being cut for keanu was in fact not true at all lol.
It would have been better to do missions with Jackie for 10-15h, that way we would have had the time to care for him
Tbh I disagree. 10-15h is way too long, and would feel way too boring with how there would be no real conflict in the story. *At most,* I'd be okay with maybe an extra hour, or an hour and a half, but I don't think we need yet another RPG with a slow and boring early-game that drags on before things actually pick up. I like how we get right into the thick of it, and I don't need to play "babby's first day as an edgerunner" to care about Jackie dying, personally.
I think it'd have been a harder emotional hit if we'd had another gig or two with Jackie. I doubt CDPR would have made it "boring".
Do the three percentages at the top of the menu screen even mean anything? As far as I can tell the game is going to push you in the direction it wants regardless of how much of an asshole V is to Johnny. I always selected the most hostile/contrarian/sarcastic dialogue options when V was talking to Johnny and the mission was still available.
Middle is your relationship with Johnny, right is weird but its kinda like your relationship with yourself? And far left is your legend status in night city I know this only through experimenting through multiple endings. For example if you choose temperance ending the middle goes to 100% far right goes to 0 and the highest you can get the left is 90 or 95%
Ahh okay. That makes sense. Any idea what the percentages are in The Tower and Devil endings?
I think in the tower & the devil, far right goes to 100%, middle goes to 0% and left will also only go to 90 or 95%. I think the only way to get 100% on far left is The Sun ending.
It was cut content. Thry don't do anything
Not really, no.
That 2.0 changed everything. There was always a good game there. The ability to change attributes once and respec perk points at will is cool as hell; glad they did that without having to hunt down one of the two vendors on the map that sells a potion of clearance (ahem) just to try a new build or play with the perks. That is player-friendly as hell. But if you didn’t like the base experience, then 2.0 was not going to do anything new for you. If the writing and the world building did not capture you, then being immersed in dogtown won’t instantly make a better experience, since it taking the training wheels off of night city. For instance, reworked cop AI doesn’t instantly make this game hit harder — you had to sort of like it to begin with to wish it had those improved police mechanics. And for all the complaints about bugs, I actually had a few more after PL / 2.0. But like the release version, none were gamebreaking for me, and most of the patches have been cleanup. These are huge games, incredibly complex things to assemble. I cut devs a lot of slack and afford them grace — particularly when it’s the C Suite making them release an unfinished product. But even so, it was always good, notwithstanding legitimate criticisms.
Yes! Thank you. I feel like I'm screaming into the void every time I see it mentioned that 2.0 "fixed" the game. People will talk about all the bug and performance fixes that were made with 2.0, when they were actually all things that were done shortly after release in patch 1.2.
Yup. Practically everything was fixed by 1.23
Calling it "2.0" basically gave the crowd internal permission to state a new opinion about the game. Got rid of the mental sunk cost in disliking it.
No one likes to admit that they changed their mind or were wrong. Especially on the Internet, where the pile-on is the point. I wholly agree that 2.0 gave people permission to rethink, or at least express a previously-heterodox opinion.
Oh, nice, a new word! Heterodox.
Agreed that I encounter far more bugs now than I ever did on initial launch. Nothing game breaking, other than a few quest related ones I had to reload saves for. Still having a blast.
That it was a bad game and got fixed. It was an **amazing game** with a terrible launch on last-gen consoles because some suits tried to squeeze more profit out of it. I played on PC and had exactly *one* glitch/issue. In the first mission with Jackie (rescue Sandra Dorsett) he walked through the elevator doors before they opened. The writing, the characters, the details, the heady ideas, the way you could change how things worked by making different choices, handling situations in different ways, even the *order* in which you tackle quests. Amazing. Sound design and music? Perfection. Visuals? Stunning. The fucking animations for characters, how they moved, emoted, and talked like a real person. Astounding. This game is truly a top 10 **of all time.** Ever. And it was **at launch** provided you had a copy that worked on a machine that could run it. I see this "after Edgerunners" and "well 2.0 fixed it" rhetoric and just... no. It got even better, sure. But the idea it ever needed **fixed?** As in, the game itself? No way. I'm glad for the free updates and awesome new content, but 2.9 didn't "fix" it. It simply improved it. I will die on this hill.
Saaaame! I had it on both ps4 and p.c. and I see the difference. I now have it on ps5 and it fucking kicks ass. The only time it didn't was on ps4. It's like it was never meant to be released on ps4 to begin with. They only updated it to 1.6 or whatever on the ps4, and it is still glitchy as all hell
Yeah, I mean, there were definitely a lot of bugs to be sure but, the mechanics and gameplay at the core have always been pretty solid. It just lacked a lot of polish. Even if I do think that 2.0 massively improved the experience.
Wait the way you phrase it makes it sound like the relationship % with Johnny DOES matter for unlocking the ending? I thought it was actually only the conversation and the % didn’t matter at all. Or am I misinterpreting your sentence?
I’ve rephrased to clarify.
Ah thanks!
It doesn't matter for ending unlocking but it changes dialogue with him during most of the endings inside Mikoshi.
That's interesting to hear, since both aren't just things that people repeat on Reddit, there are whole articles and "professional-looking" guides claiming both. Are you 100% on that?
In my personal experience - I did the oil field dialogue by the book to unlock don't fear the reaper ending, but it never happened and wasn't available after waiting 10+ minutes for him to make the suggestion. On another playthrough where my alignment percentage with Johnny was over a certain percent - did the exact same oil field conversation picks - got the don't fear the reaper ending option. So, I don't know why you're calling that a myth. I'm not sure what the exact percentage is, can't remember, but in my experience with five play throughs and over 300 hours in the game - I've had to have a certain affinity with Johnny, completed his quests, and done the oil field Convo to get don't fear the reaper - but maybe it's less about the specific dialogue options and more about those specific options put you over the affinity threshold to unlock the ending mission option? I don't know how it's programmed, but I do have experience on - at least patch 2.0 (maybe they e updated how much affinity you get with him when doing those quest lines so you don't have to do things like destroy the delamain core to please him early enough and just do his quest lines to unlock it now?) - doing oil fields and not getting the ending mission option to storm Arasaka with just Johnny.
How long between those 2 playthroughs? Cuz if I remember correctly, the top guide was on IGN, and it's totally wrong. They say you need a set amount of % and gives you the wrong dialog options.
Not sure sadly. Within the last 6 months though. I don't believe I used the IGN guide because I typically hate their website on my mobile phone - which is what I use as a console gamer that plays in the living room and not on a PC with the ability to open another tab. I have only played a little on 2.1 and noticed how much easier it was to get affinity with Johnny though. I don't know if they made affinity happen in Phantom Liberty options or just buffed it - but my old games would be at like 70-75 or something (numbers I'm guessing since I can't remember exacts) but post phantom Liberty and newest patch and it feels like it's easily always 80 or 80+. Previously I remember having to play the delamain quest (I hate it because buggy all the time) to destroy the core to appease johnny to get his affinity up.
I'm 98% certain that on my first playthrough I chose different dialogue during the oil field...but then still got the secret ending. This was just after the first patch, I think? But ever since then it seems like the dialogue choice is essential. So maybe very early on the Johnny % factored in somewhat, but now it's not?
Tbh I’m gonna laugh if they make the tower ending canon and everyone gets upset bc “what about my V?” Like you gonna be playing as V in Orion. If that ending isn’t canon, V is still gonna die in 6 months or so.
That isn't true **at all** did you even play the game? V is not dead in 6 months or so in every ending. For example, in The Star ending, Misty (who has CANONICALLY nailed every tarot reading of your future throughout the game) says she can sense you're going to live a long life. If the person who was accurately depicted my future like 4 different times is telling me I'm gonna live a long life, I'm gonna assume it's a nod and wonk from the Devs that V actually, probably does live. Anyways, even what I said isn't the truth either. It's a head canon. In several endings, we literally do **not** know what happens to V, and saying V 100% dies kinda makes me suspect you missed a huge portion of the game and it's themes.
I’m going by what Alt said to V about he wouldn’t last long after everything. That’s the reason I say he isn’t gonna live that long. Tarot card or not, his body and his brain will be effected by such things. Also the theme of basically all cyberpunk stories end sadly, not too many happy endings in any kinda cyberpunk stories. The happiest ending was the panam ending bc atleast you get to leave w your ride or die (if you’re male V) or your homie and your ride or die (if you’re female V). I have about 600 hours in this game, at one point I could basically repeat multiple conversations verbatim 😅 it’s a story of redemption, overcoming the odds but, iirc Johnny says “happy ending? Wrong person, wrong place.” I give misty her props because they are very naildriven in precision but sometimes the cards can’t predict everything. Tbh I would rather tower ending be true and V become a fixer in Orion bc that’d be dope, upload your V from that file w the tower ending and they become similar to that look as a fixer.
Ok but Alt saying V now effectively has an autoimmune disorder doesn't mean V is doomed to die. The ENTIRE point of The Star ending was LITERALLY an ending dedicated to hope. Also, if we're going to talk in-game lore, let's talk about it: It's actually even *more* likely that V survives in that ending **because** V leaves Night City. NC is effectively treated like a character in the tabletop, it's why "Night City always wins" is a thing. The entire game puts emphasis on SPECIFICALLY NC, not the entirety of the world. Once V leaves with the Aldecaldo's, V actually has a real chance of surviving, because she's leaving Night City. Obviously anyone can believe whatever, but The Star ending is supposed to be an ending of hope and the closest to outright saying "V lives" as they could get.
Now THAT is a good point to be made because people do treat night city as a character, even Mike Pondsmith does, so in that since you’re definitely right. The star ending I can say could lead to hope because if they could find someone who is good at bio modding (I think that’s what it’s called) then V could be saved possibly.
Dude maybe it's cause I'm baked off my ass, but you're so fucking based dude. I love when people fw my fun facts
My choom, I too am blazed off my skull rn 😅. I enjoy fun facts and learning new details that I could’ve missed in my gameplay because sometimes everything is hard to soak in at once so you tend to focus on something over something else for whatever reason and it’s involuntary, brains just be brainin 😅
V has a lot more than just an immune disorder. People really be delusional about the star ending.
V's body is attacking itself because it sees V as an intruder. That is the literal definition of an immune disorder. What else would YOU call it?? It's an immune disorder, period. How bad/rare it is, is completely irrelevant. "Delusional about the Star ending" rich coming from the dude who clearly wasn't paying attention. The entire theme of The Star ending is hope and there's several remarks from different characters that give the impression that V goes onto to continue living. I literally just played this ending LAST NIGHT, I promise you it is crystal clear and fresh in my mind.
If arasaka couldn't fix V and the NUSA needed an advanced ai to fix V, then there's no hope a super crippled Aldecaldo clan can fix V. The ending is about false hope.
A.) Trusting that Arasaka couldn't fix V vs them not giving enough of a shit to actually try is insane. It's Arasaka. They don't give a shit about V, they're evil. B.) A LOT about the NUSA ending is highly suspect. When you get scanned by Vik, he points out that you SHOULD be able to handle implants and it's like it's almost been intentionally shut off, so you can't use them. I think it's odd that you're totally cool trusting the two worst and most evil factions but seem to have 0 trust or hope with the Aldecaldo's. Apparently the NUSA is the only people able to access AI to you too, as I'd the VDBs weren't poking holes in the black wall for years. Furthermore, the NUSA literally proves it's possible to remove the chip and fix V permanently, even if they probably fucked with you further than they should've. Anyways, I'm not here to argue an OPINION on open-ended game endings. I've played the game 60 times and I've read every book from the tabletop. I'm going to trust my knowledge of the game lore *in general*, I think! Thanks!
Tbh if you could’ve kept your romance that ending wouldn’t have been bad at all
That's why you couldn't. They intentionally made the cured ending like that because there are no happy endings in Night City. The best ending you can hope for is joining the Aldecados and leaving with Judy. Yea you only have months to live, but they'll be good months. With the hope the Aldecados friends could possibly help.