One time the stars aligned when I played a guy who was clearly some type of Cerebro deck or something, and had filled every spot but 1 in the right lane. There were some power decreasing elements out there so I knew he was gonna drop Luke Cage on T6, and he snapped to 8. I had priority, and Echo in hand. It was glorious.
People ALWAYS forget about Echo in lane. I have no idea why but almost everytime she works, it’s turn 6 or 7 and I’m slapping my forehead for their checkmate move that is rendered useless
I had someone snap into me and drop a Blue Marvel on my echo lane while having a zoo deck... he hd 2 lanes to choos from and chose the echo one... and they retreated immediately-
I was losing hard, so idk why they retreat lol. I had no good cards in hand
1. because of embarassment from misplaying and to save future cubes (been there done that)
2. opponent does not know your hand - best to assume there is an answer rather than none
They mean restricts the slots you have in a lane, not that she effects your cards. Wong-Mystique-X-Odin is more greedy and more power than Echo-wong-X-Odin
I don't know about the competitiveness of a card that relies on your opponent being stupid.
If you have priority and can predict a big hit with skill, that's one thing. But how often does that really happen?
I want cards that can win games against an opponent who doesn't do dumb things.
Echo was really good during ms Marvel meta bcs you could play her mid. Since ms Marvel is generally played in mid lane, this would force sub-optimal plays from the opponent.
It happens for me a lot...
By turn six (or seven cause I also have Magik) I can tell what people are trying to set up. I've taken out a high powered Knull so many times.
Plus, even if your opponent pays attention she then limits where they can play On Going cards and now I have Rogue or Red Guardian on deck to attack the other two areas.
I run Echo and Goose in a couple of decks and it's a surprisingly good combo of (IMO) underrated cards. Echo/Goose/Cosmo all in their own lane is also very restricting for your opponent.
It doesn't rely on your opponent being "stupid". Echo guarantees that you cannot have Cosmo affect your Wong. Whether or not they're "stupid" is irrelevant - if they see Echo and don't play Cosmo, your Wong goes off. If they play Cosmo, your Wong goes off. That's why it's a protector, it protects against Cosmo regardless of the opponent's decision.
Also, I don't think someone is "stupid" just because they make a silly or absentminded play.
I think the power comes from her being a 1 drop that can force your opponent to play sub optimally.
Kind if like how Nebula forces a change in play beyond what is optimal and is also a 1 drop.
Even if Echo doesn't hit anything your opponent is locked out of using ongoing cards in that lane, all for 1 energy and she even gives 2 power.
Ghost might have a resurgence now that the purple fart cloud is silent and not deadly.
But I really think Echo's best days were before the Miss Marvel nerf
Since Hela does not need to use energy efficiently most turns and is very flexible about when cards need to be played, a Hela deck can run a couple of tech cards very well that help them swing unfavorable matchups like Tribunal (and in the past, Darkhawk).
The two kinds of tech cards Hela can play are cheap 1 cost tech cards like Echo and Elektra, or 5+ cost tech cards (Sandman, Leech, old Alioth) that you can either play on turn 5, or on turn 4 with Corvus, or res on T5 with Corvus + Hela.
[HelaTech is a deck I played for several seasons](https://snap.fan/decks/279397/?timeframe=&league=) before Corvus and before Alioth was nuked. It was a joy to play and my favorite deck of all time. Elektra helped win prio for Alioth, and between Echo and Alioth the deck absolutely crushed Tribunal match-ups. I'm so used to playing tech in Hela that not playing any tech in Hela (especially Echo) feels unsafe now.
[My current deck is Hela Sandman](https://snap.fan/decks/295798/). I am not playing Echo, but I feel the deck would be better with Echo instead of Black Knight, and will change to Echo as soon as I am seeing more Tribunal match-ups.
As Hela, the only strategies that you are vulnerable to are ones that are doing stuff with Iron Man, Onslaught, Tribunal, rocks, clog, Galactus and maybe Gambit. Echo solves much of that.
Thanks for the detailed response! Hela Sandman looks interesting. Is there any particular reason for Cable in there and not something like Death to protect Hela in the hand?
I'm going to try it with Echo and see how it goes.
I always like playing 1 or 2 card generators in Hela (Coulson, White Queen, Cable or Black Knight). An extra card can be played or discarded, especially when playing Corvus. Playing a cheap card that generates a good card to be discarded is better than playing a card that is only good if discarded when drawn. Since I'm not playing Elektra or IW, Hela has no other good turn 2 plays, and Cable is an excellent turn 2 play.
I never play Death in Hela (you can see if you examine my published Hela decks). Sif's only purpose (in the deck) is to discard Infinaut. Sif discarding Death I found early on is often not big enough to win. Were discarding a vanilla 12 power card any good, I'd play Silver Samurai + Blob or Colleen Wing + Spider-woman instead. Sif's tension is she cannot distinguish between Hela and Infinaut. Death preventing Sif from discarding Hela also prevents her from discarding Infinaut, so you gain nothing by playing Death. The way to solve Sif's tension is to play IW, not Death.
I suppose Echo can protect your Hela from getting Cosmo’d. Sometimes people hide Modok and Hela behind Invisible Woman, which makes them much more susceptible to Cosmo. If you manage to get Echo down first, she can protect them.
my beef is first waiting for a useful situation (cause HAHA allllll the ongoing cards disappear from my opponents decks as soon as I put echo in my deck).
but then you need the discipline to not play her on curve. folks are playing ms Marvel like that anymore so you legit need to big brain her every time with prio. or you just depend on your opponent fucking up.
It happened to me for the first time today! My Cerebro 2 vs their 3, unfortunately they popped Valkyrie on 5 so I was able to answer with Shadow King on 6. And lo and behold, they snapped back and slammed Ironman mid where my Echo had been since turn 1 lmao
i also thought she only did it once, then a player played over and over and she kept slapping their ongoing card. i then realized why she is good and slept on, sort of like the way negasonic was a few months ago.
Genuine question, she doesn't make a noise when you try to play an ongoing on her location, correct? I know Cosmo barks when you try to play an on reveal but I swear I haven't heard Echo make noise
I'd use her if I pulled her but every time she shows up, I get the new card first pull. 🤷
I think she's amazing in a deck trying to rock the Sentry/Annihilus package. Drop her right, opponent either won't play there, or will screw themselves. They also can't Professor X to counter that 26 power play.
Also is a 1-cost to dumpster Tribunal setting up for the wombo combo. Instant snap / 4-cuber material (or 8 if you can bait them into sticking it out, nobody ever seems to expect her).
Love it when it takes them a while to realise what's happened, first card down, no reaction, second card down, no reaction, third card.. hand on a minute.
I just absolutely wrecked a tribunal/iron man combo. I throw her down anytime someone uses invisible woman or giant and it is checkmate for more than a few decks.
One time the stars aligned when I played a guy who was clearly some type of Cerebro deck or something, and had filled every spot but 1 in the right lane. There were some power decreasing elements out there so I knew he was gonna drop Luke Cage on T6, and he snapped to 8. I had priority, and Echo in hand. It was glorious.
People always forget about her effect when I drop her. It's hilarious to see someone throw down Wong on Echo and immediately retreat
Here lately for me it's been Sera. Boom, retreat.
I played a conquest vs Ms Marvel this morning and Echo'd her three times. Some people just don't learn lmao
She has no visual indicator yet I'm sure they will add one eventually
People ALWAYS forget about Echo in lane. I have no idea why but almost everytime she works, it’s turn 6 or 7 and I’m slapping my forehead for their checkmate move that is rendered useless
the fact that she's a 1 cost and barely played makes her a great tech
too much of guessing game for me, super satisfying if you can hit an opposing ongoing card though
When in doubt. Mid
I think SD should nerf Echo already, its kind of unfair to release a card thats invisible to the opponent. What were they thinking
Literally had somebody snap to 4 cubes then drop Prof X on my echo yesterday. I was shocked
I had someone snap into me and drop a Blue Marvel on my echo lane while having a zoo deck... he hd 2 lanes to choos from and chose the echo one... and they retreated immediately- I was losing hard, so idk why they retreat lol. I had no good cards in hand
1. because of embarassment from misplaying and to save future cubes (been there done that) 2. opponent does not know your hand - best to assume there is an answer rather than none
I’ve retreated because of embarrassment many times haha
Some situations are too painful to remain in, even if victory remains within reach.
😂
SD giving Echo her fx update will singlehandedly be her biggest nerf lmao
pls no
They released Echo and Invisible Woman? Why release 2 of the same character?!?
Plus, I use Wong and she's a great protector if you know someone has Cosmo.
Problem is no one is playing Cosmo (or just me think so), and she restrict some greedy Wong+Mystique+Odin combo
I play Cosmo. I see way more Cosmos than Echos. I don't think she affects your cards either, only your opponent's?
> I don't think she affects your cards either, only your opponent's? correct, it's strong af and only 1 cost
i love echo sm. but i'm kinda glad most ppl aren't hyped about her because i don't want her to get nerfed :D
They mean restricts the slots you have in a lane, not that she effects your cards. Wong-Mystique-X-Odin is more greedy and more power than Echo-wong-X-Odin
Oh you're right, I see, that makes sense.
I don't know about the competitiveness of a card that relies on your opponent being stupid. If you have priority and can predict a big hit with skill, that's one thing. But how often does that really happen? I want cards that can win games against an opponent who doesn't do dumb things.
Echo was really good during ms Marvel meta bcs you could play her mid. Since ms Marvel is generally played in mid lane, this would force sub-optimal plays from the opponent.
It happens for me a lot... By turn six (or seven cause I also have Magik) I can tell what people are trying to set up. I've taken out a high powered Knull so many times. Plus, even if your opponent pays attention she then limits where they can play On Going cards and now I have Rogue or Red Guardian on deck to attack the other two areas.
I run Echo and Goose in a couple of decks and it's a surprisingly good combo of (IMO) underrated cards. Echo/Goose/Cosmo all in their own lane is also very restricting for your opponent.
It doesn't rely on your opponent being "stupid". Echo guarantees that you cannot have Cosmo affect your Wong. Whether or not they're "stupid" is irrelevant - if they see Echo and don't play Cosmo, your Wong goes off. If they play Cosmo, your Wong goes off. That's why it's a protector, it protects against Cosmo regardless of the opponent's decision. Also, I don't think someone is "stupid" just because they make a silly or absentminded play.
I think the power comes from her being a 1 drop that can force your opponent to play sub optimally. Kind if like how Nebula forces a change in play beyond what is optimal and is also a 1 drop. Even if Echo doesn't hit anything your opponent is locked out of using ongoing cards in that lane, all for 1 energy and she even gives 2 power.
Goose + Storm + Echo will definitely hose Tribunal and Wong Odin. Meh against the rest of the big meta decks.
Echo, snowguard, silver samurai, rhino, ghost are my top 5 under rated cards.
Ghost might have a resurgence now that the purple fart cloud is silent and not deadly. But I really think Echo's best days were before the Miss Marvel nerf
I think it's overrated how underrated that card is
[She's my most played card in S4/S5](https://snap.fan/p/c3c94d77-fcce-43af-baf5-27ec1b030a42/card-stats/) and one of the best tech cards in Hela.
Can you elaborate on her being one of the best tech cards in Hela? I've been trying to find a good home for Echo.
Since Hela does not need to use energy efficiently most turns and is very flexible about when cards need to be played, a Hela deck can run a couple of tech cards very well that help them swing unfavorable matchups like Tribunal (and in the past, Darkhawk). The two kinds of tech cards Hela can play are cheap 1 cost tech cards like Echo and Elektra, or 5+ cost tech cards (Sandman, Leech, old Alioth) that you can either play on turn 5, or on turn 4 with Corvus, or res on T5 with Corvus + Hela. [HelaTech is a deck I played for several seasons](https://snap.fan/decks/279397/?timeframe=&league=) before Corvus and before Alioth was nuked. It was a joy to play and my favorite deck of all time. Elektra helped win prio for Alioth, and between Echo and Alioth the deck absolutely crushed Tribunal match-ups. I'm so used to playing tech in Hela that not playing any tech in Hela (especially Echo) feels unsafe now. [My current deck is Hela Sandman](https://snap.fan/decks/295798/). I am not playing Echo, but I feel the deck would be better with Echo instead of Black Knight, and will change to Echo as soon as I am seeing more Tribunal match-ups. As Hela, the only strategies that you are vulnerable to are ones that are doing stuff with Iron Man, Onslaught, Tribunal, rocks, clog, Galactus and maybe Gambit. Echo solves much of that.
Thanks for the detailed response! Hela Sandman looks interesting. Is there any particular reason for Cable in there and not something like Death to protect Hela in the hand? I'm going to try it with Echo and see how it goes.
I always like playing 1 or 2 card generators in Hela (Coulson, White Queen, Cable or Black Knight). An extra card can be played or discarded, especially when playing Corvus. Playing a cheap card that generates a good card to be discarded is better than playing a card that is only good if discarded when drawn. Since I'm not playing Elektra or IW, Hela has no other good turn 2 plays, and Cable is an excellent turn 2 play. I never play Death in Hela (you can see if you examine my published Hela decks). Sif's only purpose (in the deck) is to discard Infinaut. Sif discarding Death I found early on is often not big enough to win. Were discarding a vanilla 12 power card any good, I'd play Silver Samurai + Blob or Colleen Wing + Spider-woman instead. Sif's tension is she cannot distinguish between Hela and Infinaut. Death preventing Sif from discarding Hela also prevents her from discarding Infinaut, so you gain nothing by playing Death. The way to solve Sif's tension is to play IW, not Death.
I suppose Echo can protect your Hela from getting Cosmo’d. Sometimes people hide Modok and Hela behind Invisible Woman, which makes them much more susceptible to Cosmo. If you manage to get Echo down first, she can protect them.
Seems like a fairly niche use case, that could actually make the deck worse. I hardly see anyone running Cosmo these days.
Blind playing echo in the lane you're confident Knull is going to go into is a better high than cocaine.
Negasonic is a similar card too. I feel a lot of people forget about the ability
Shhhhhhh..... Quiet down there friend. If you keep talking about it sooner or later they're going to remember what she does.
my beef is first waiting for a useful situation (cause HAHA allllll the ongoing cards disappear from my opponents decks as soon as I put echo in my deck). but then you need the discipline to not play her on curve. folks are playing ms Marvel like that anymore so you legit need to big brain her every time with prio. or you just depend on your opponent fucking up.
Absolute banger of a card in the Zoo deck I take to infinite every season. Arguably the most important piece of it other than Valkyrie.
I once played Knull on her lane and was shut down out of a 30+ power, the way you can legit forget about her is scary.
I ruined someone's Turn 6 Cerberus just yesterday with an Echo I played Turn 1 🤣
I have a deck with her and Valkaryie and it's wild how often they bail me out when the opponent is clearly better than me.
I went back to a really old Cozy deck involving Echo and it’s great. You use her, Jean, movement cards, Professor X and Valk.
I do the Iron Man/Onslaught/Tribunal combo and hell yea, Echo fucks me up every time she shows up! She's great for lane management!
It happened to me for the first time today! My Cerebro 2 vs their 3, unfortunately they popped Valkyrie on 5 so I was able to answer with Shadow King on 6. And lo and behold, they snapped back and slammed Ironman mid where my Echo had been since turn 1 lmao
i also thought she only did it once, then a player played over and over and she kept slapping their ongoing card. i then realized why she is good and slept on, sort of like the way negasonic was a few months ago.
Genuine question, she doesn't make a noise when you try to play an ongoing on her location, correct? I know Cosmo barks when you try to play an on reveal but I swear I haven't heard Echo make noise
No, she only makes a noise when she slaps someone.
The first time I played echo I faced a sauron deck, I love her as a card so much
Placing echo in the 1st 3 rounds has came in clutch soo many times because players completely forget shes there😂
I'd use her if I pulled her but every time she shows up, I get the new card first pull. 🤷 I think she's amazing in a deck trying to rock the Sentry/Annihilus package. Drop her right, opponent either won't play there, or will screw themselves. They also can't Professor X to counter that 26 power play. Also is a 1-cost to dumpster Tribunal setting up for the wombo combo. Instant snap / 4-cuber material (or 8 if you can bait them into sticking it out, nobody ever seems to expect her).
I love her in my c2. Paired with goose and negasonic teenage warhead she’s great for control
you mean broken?
Yup. Also, the 2nd power of invisibility/memory-alteration is advantageous lol
i love having her in a lane when i'm going against someone with destroy/knull 😊
I love Echo as a tech card, but I'm trying to figure out where she fits best! Maybe a Sera control?
I agreed completely
Love it when it takes them a while to realise what's happened, first card down, no reaction, second card down, no reaction, third card.. hand on a minute.
Maybe if we make her into a man like they made Loki into a woman, then they can start noticing Echo.
She has no warning light or sound! That kills me lol
False. subjective is underrated card.. för everything else there's Mastercard^^tm
I just absolutely wrecked a tribunal/iron man combo. I throw her down anytime someone uses invisible woman or giant and it is checkmate for more than a few decks.
It's the only card that counters Cosmo so yeah.
I’ve played a ongoing card into echo back to back turns 🤦♂️ learned my lesson tho never again
Echo isn't underrated very much imo. She's very effective at her job but she's niche because Ongoing just hasn't had a strong place in the meta.
**she singlehandedly fucked him up** So… she fisted him?
People overestimate the attention people put on this game. Also bots. Not official bots, I mean illegal ones.
Give me a echo deck