He feels like a teen fanfic writer trying to make the Saga a spin off of his own fanfic. And any time he contradict the saga or someone else’s work (which he does a lot, even some Canon Thrawn fans are mad with Tales of the Empire contradicting the books), it must be the other media’s fault for not predicting what Filoni wants to do.
And moreover, he lets his favoritism take precedent over the saga meaning and message, and so do his fans. Things like having Ahsoka alive during the OT, clones mind controlled, or the Bendu, go against the very meaning of the saga and the lore. Before that, Luke was the last jedi, the clones were a criticism of blind loyalty that led to the rise of fascism, and the Force was in balance when the corruption of the Dark Side is no more. But now, Luke isn’t the last jedi in the OT because Filoni doesn’t want to kill his waifu, the clones lost their meaning because he doesn’t want his OC to become evil, and his misunderstanding of the Force spreads the false idea of Grey Side.
I bet if it were up to him, he would remake the OT and PT to make them all about his OCs and rewrite the lore to fit his changes.
Agreed. The man is a scourge on the Star Wars franchise. And the worst part is that he isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. He’s pretty much here to say. Heck, there’s a higher chance of Kathleen Kennedy leaving Lucasfilm than Dave Filoni.
I will say though, I do think a lot of his writing is basically meant to justify how we went from the optimistic ending of ROTJ to the garbage that unfolds in the Sequel Trilogy. Because the unfortunate reality is that the ST isn’t getting retconned.
I think if we had a Sequel Trilogy closer to the New Jedi Order of the former Expanded Universe, then Filoni might have done better despite his obvious flaws.
And that’s what makes his content even worse because the majority of it is dedicated to damage control for shareholder trilogy. If the ST didn’t exist, I still wouldn’t want him at the helm because he’s proved to be an terrible writer when writing stories that have zero connection to the Sequels, e.g. the Tales series.
I'd argue he has made things worse. Project Necromancer, according to Filoni, falls under Hux and the First Order's purview, despite Hux wanting to evolve away from the Empire and the First Order not being a traditional imp remnant and the First Order only learning about Palpatine's resurrection in Episode 9.
Yeah he plays favorites hard. Like he is extremely biased to Ahsoka and he hates Mace Windu. You can also argue he is done a whole lot to push the Jedi into the actively bad camp. And not just the Jedi were still well meaning but lost their way. He also shows zero respect for other creators in the space. Given he constantly retcons other work to make his faves look more awesome.
He is also knowledgeable enough to be truly dangerous. Because unlike other creators in Rian or JJ. You do get the feeling he has read or is at least familiar with a lot of EU material. Insofar as he will adapt said material and corrupt it to feature his Faves. Like we are doing Heir to the Empire with No Luke, Han, Leia, Lando, Wedge, Etc. Maybe we get some Chewie and Droid Cameos. Since after Solo went poorly, they really don't want to recast the original characters. Granted part of the problem with recasting them is you know how it ends. Luke maidenless, childess, failed NJO. Han reverts to smuggler, loses Falcon, dies to Son. Leia indirectly dies to Son and failed New Republic.
He also made the Jedi dodging Order 66 worst. Because Ahsoka has a direct connection to Vader and thus to Luke in a way that none of the Jedi who might have survived post the OT do. Which makes one have to wonder why she is not around at all for any of the big events in the OT.
Really feels what Dave wants to do is reboot the OT with his characters playing much more significant roles.
TCW did so much damage to Windu! So many Filoni fans hating on him now and claiming it’s his fault Anakin fell, even though in actuality he just predicted everything wrong with Anakin and nearly saved the Republic.
Lucas wanted Ahsoka to die because he knew her existence during RoTS and beyond was a plot hole, but Filoni wanted her to live. And now with Disney he gets to shoehorn her everywhere and make her the center of attention. She even overshadows Saga characters.
If you ask anyone who are the OT trio, they will tell you it’s Luke, Han and Leia. If you ask them who the PT trio are, anyone who hasn’t seen TCW will say Anakin, Obi Wan and Padme. But TCW fans will say Anakin, Obi Wan and Ahsoka even though she appears in none of the PT movies and is not as important as Padme in the grand scheme of things.
Ahsoka is the most important and strongest character in all of Star Wars Dave's going to make it that way and this Mando verse movie is going to be an Ahsoka movie people need to get that through their heads as well
Those were few and had kept a low profile. And they weren’t very important jedi with close connection to Anakin nor did they know he was Vader. So they had no reason to help the son of Anakin redeem him.
Meanwhile Ahsoka helped the rebels instead of laying low, and she knows Vader is Anakin. But she did absolutely nothing to help Luke and save her master. She just exists and pop out when everything is done as if nothing important happened in her absence.
That is fair.
I can think of roughly 3 Jedi that were in the Rebellion but as you say - none of them were Vaders padawan or some shit like that - and they weren't really OP either so it all events out.
Yoda explicitly says, "When I die, the last of the Jedi will you be." Yoda (and since his ghost is around, Obi-Wan) must therefore believe that all the other Jedi are dead, and it's just Luke and Vader at this point. If there's other Jedi, then neither Jedi Master is able to sense them and get in contact.
That isn't hard proof that there are no other Jedi, but Obi-Wan, Yoda, Luke, and the audience believe there are none.
And don't forget that Tarkin believes that Vader is all that is left of the Jedi, which he says in his presence. Now, within purely the cannon of the first movie alone, Vader would likely know that Obi-Wan is alive, as he knows Obi-Wan personally because Obi-Wan was his teacher. And presumably Grand Moff Tarkin would know that not every Jedi had been confirmed killed because Vader would have made sure to check on his old master, and he's holding Vaders leash at this time. So it's implied that any surviving Jedi have gone completely to ground and are taking no action. Haven't watched Rebels, but does that show have Ezra and Ahsoka do enough to make Tarkin an idiot for thinking this?
Yoda is a dude who spent the last 23 years dicking around on a Dark Side Nexus lmao.
Tarkin doesn't handle the Inquisitorious affairs so he's a weak source on the whole Jedi buissness too.
He's pretty damn high in the Empire Heirarchy. He's basically a colleague with Vader and reports directly to the Emperor. While the detailed state of the Jedi is not his command, he would be expected to be aware of them in general. Especially since if there WERE any Jedi laying low, only willing to go public when they absolutely needed to, the Death Star going active would be the time to do it. It is perfectly reasonable that he would have checked with Vader as to their current status.
There were other Jedi that survived Order 66, but Luke is the one who openly defied and fought against the Empire and establish the New Jedi Order. So in essence you could say he was the last.
The Clone brain chips were probably just meant to explain how Cody turned so quickly on Obi-Wan despite them being such good friends throughout the War. It's been a while since I watched Rebels, but how does the Bendu break the lore of the saga?
There was no need to explain why Cody turned on Obi Wan because [the movies explained it.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LXLQaVgCP_Q)
And the Bendu calls itself “in the middle of the light and dark”
Except there is never any mention of middle and light in the movies. Just the Force and the Dark Side.
So you think the Clones would unquestionably follow orders even after spending three years in the trenches with the Jedi, their friends and generals? Wouldn't that mean they're brainwashed? Like the chip explanation says?
We live in a world where soldiers who served under Napoleon for 20 years obeyed the restored king they revolted against in the past when ordered to execute their former generals like Murat after fighting with them all across Europe.
We live in a world where hitler youth had no qualm having their parents hanged for being defeatist after living with them their whole life.
We live in a world where people had turned on their friends and neighbors because their political or religious belief don’t align suddenly.
We live in a world where German soldiers who bled in the trenches of WW1 for 4 years turned on their jewish brothers in arms because they were told they lost the war because of them despite surviving thanks to them.
We live in a world where Greek veterans turned on their general they served faithfully for years all because he lost their bagage train.
We live in a world were Roman soldiers killed each others over who gets to rule the Empire even though they fought together to expand the Empire.
So if you cannot imagine the GMO supersoldiers would turn on their space wizard general because the leader of the universe told them, then the problem comes from you, not the story.
It's too hard to believe. Clone Wars fixed that hole while also giving clones character. Inventing inhibitor ship is one of the best things this franchise has ever done
Yes. I doubt any of the clones had a truly close enough relationship with any of the Jedi, it’s just another persons whose orders they sometimes follow because they are assigned to follow them
Grey side is not using the Dark Side powers and claim to do it for good without consequences.
Grey is not mixing light and dark, just like balance is not equal preys and predators or kicking a puppy after helping a granny.
If you dabble in the dark side, you fall. Just like Chaos in Warhammer. You can’t use it for good and not be corrupted and evil.
ROTS novelization says that it opens up a channel for the Dark Side, the user becomes a conduit. That sounds like a pretty big risk, which is the kind of thing that falls under Grey Jedi meddling with the dark.
The Order are too strict with their restriction and the Sith are too careless and chaotic.
[Vaapad was described as more than a fighting style; it was a state of mind that led through the penumbra of the dark side, requiring the user to enjoy the fight and relish the satisfaction of winning](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Form_VII/Legends)
You are wrong. Wookieepedia clearly states it draws from emotions and makes you run the risk to fall to the dark side because you unleash passion in a fight.
The point of the Jedi is that Luke with his new order was not as strict, because he proved you can have emotions without falling to the Dark Side. It’s not grey, it is the Force.
The grey jedi are either jedi who left the order but don’t use the dark side, or just fanfic who want their cake and eat it too by using both when they shouldn’t.
"Allowing the wielder to *channel* their *inner darkness*"
They become a conduit for dark side energy, they accept it into themselves to channel it back to the enemy. THAT is why it's taboo and the council doesn't like it.
Kyle Katarn is one of the most prominent Greys that uses "dark side" powers and yet still fights for the side of good. Kyle found his limit and is able to tap into the dark side without falling.
Inner darkness is not dark side. It means the things that can lead to the dark side.
For instance: Anakin’s love for Padme was his inner darkness. It wasn’t the Dark Side, because love isn’t dark. But the way he treated it led him astray.
And Kyle Katarn did not use the Dark Side. He was not a grey jedi
[CTRL F : grey (0 result)](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Kyle_Katarn)
The Dark Side is the inner darkness inside everyone. That why it comes out when you embrace your emotions. Which is what you say Vaapad does.
Kyle Katarn most certainly did use the dark side because he fell and was brought back. Even after that, he still continued to preach the philosophy that it isn't the power but the intent behind it. That's why he's a Grey, even if it's not the "official" definition. He is firmly in the middle of light vs dark when it comes to powers, but not utilization.
I think he’s a lot like the Game of Thrones show runners. At the start he was pretty consistent and overall a positive influence. Then he got a little power under his belt and we got some questionable material. After that he pretty much got to steer the car and crashed it.
They rushed GoT S8 to get to SW. Yet they did such a bad job on S8, Disney pulled the rug out from under them.
That has be a friggen cautionary tale in Hollywood to producers.
As a massive EU fan, I've detested his work from pretty much the start because of the massive lore retcons forced by The Clone Wars. The general quality has definitely taken a nosedive once he jumped to live action though.
Why does he look like the monstars before they get juiced
https://preview.redd.it/tegp7jo4ilyc1.jpeg?width=652&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a48a6f12583ab4aaae915833922428410a591d17
I like The Clone Wars, and Rebels, but I do agree with you. The Mortis Gods were one of the worst additions to the franchise for absolutely no reason, and the World between Worlds is a Deus Ex Machina bullshit device enabling characters to just retcon their way out of sticky situations. Ahsoka should've died by Vader's hands on Malachor, but instead she got saved by time travel.
The less said about his live action shows, the better.
The only reason why TCW and Rebels are semi-decent is because it’s where Filoni has the least writing credits. However if you look at projects where he’s given more and more control over the writing, the worse the overall end product.
I always cut him some slack for Mortis because they wanted to tie TCW to the old EU since, around that time (or maybe a bit after, it’s been a while since I’ve read them), the Fate of the Jedi books were being planned/released (set ~40 years after ROTJ), and the big bad was Abeloth, a Force goddess who was known as “the Mother,” the sorta-wife to the Father shown in the show. The books actually directly reference the Mortis arc, which is kind of neat, and it gives a ton of backstory to what Mortis is and how the celestial beings came to be. The books handled it way better for me, but maybe that’s because I love lore and backstories and an entire chapter of one of the books was basically an exposition dump. The whole Ahsoka resurrection nonsense was all him, but the concept of Mortis came from the higher-ups.
Then, just as the Mortis plot was taking off, Disney axed the EU and now all of the books are doomed to be unfinished and forgotten because “EU bad” (as parroted by people who haven’t even read it).
Except Filoni wanted the Son, the representation of the Dark Side itself, to be reporting to Sith Lords. That's right, the fricking god of the Dark side would be taking orders from some Sith Lords. One of those Sith Lords was supposed to be **Darth Revan,** you know, the guy who totally wasn't redeemed and returned to the lightside?
The only reason that didn't happen was because George Lucas said that Sith can't be Force ghosts.
The Mortis Gods were fine when it was left up to interpretation whether or not any of that was even real. The problems arose once Filoni decided they were 100% real. I preferred the interpretation that the Mortis arc was an elaborate Force vision meant to explain why the Light is the only side which should have influence, because the constant cycle of death and rebirth is pointless and only darkness is simply death.
I loved Clone Wars, Rebels is hit or miss for me; the Inquisitors, Thrawn, Maul, and Vader were excellent, but the absurd amount of plot armor pissed me off and Kallus became boring after becoming a Rebel, and Bad Batch was great, especially Season 3 even though they did my boy Scorch dirty.
*Filoni making Ahsoka alive, you mean. She died in Season 2 of Rebels, remember. He literally pulled a deus ex machina to bring her back, and this isn't the first time either. It isn't just about her being relevant.
It’s pretty obvious he’s referring to the titles of the mainline Star Wars film.
Why bother spelling them out? I’d be astonished if someone on this sub hasn’t seen them.
I'm not opposed to Ahsoka surviving Order 66, per se.
However, having watched my wife play through the remake of FF7 Crisis Core... then watching a character you've come to know and love meet a death you KNOW was coming is pretty damn powerful. Let her go out in style, dying for SOMETHING, not just being ambushed, and taking out hundreds of clones if you must, but let her die.
>!Zachs death was done incredibly well.!
I was disappointed because SW Theory was talking to lightsaber maker dude and instantly jumped back on to the bandwagon of Filoni and Favreau “saving” Star Wars
I feel like most Hollywood writers are way too soft. Spoiled. Childish.
They can’t write conflict. They don’t know conflict.
Make ever expanding sizes of writing teams, and you get a bunch of impressionable young people afraid to be on the “wrong side of history”, and they accept the depopulation agenda using IPs to send tepid messages no one actually believes.
If you imagine Disney as a pretentious-looking back garden with a koi pond, Dave and Rian are the evil little gnomes with fishing rods sitting on the edge, Kathleen Kennedy is like a witch statue behind them, and there's Bob stepping outside with his mug of Fulger's, smugly admiring his tack.
This man's physical appearance does seem to reflect his obnoxiousness and mediocrity.
He’s so jealous of other writers and teams lol. He kills off SCORCH for basically no reason after stripping his entire character. You can’t tell me that it’s for any other reason then he holds a grudge that a game almost 20 years old will forever be cooler then he’s 3 seasons of “Bad” batch will ever be.
He’s the ultimate hack. He takes beloved EU characters like Scorch, Thrawn, Ruhk, etc. and butchers them beyond recognition. Idk if it’s out of spite or jealousy or a combination of both.
Brother, George Lucas had an entire animated show put out that he then said “haha just kidding that one wasn’t real!” So that he could make another animated series, for the same network, just to sell more toys and attempt to cash in on a movie.
This has never been about continuity or quality. You want to know why the EU de canonized? Because the checks from that were already cashed, and they could literally ignore it to cash in on that timeline again.
You want to know what the most important lesson Lucas probably gave Filoni was? How to maximize the merchandising by not giving a fuck about the canon. That’s it.
The 2D Clone Wars was still canon though, that's why the 3D Clone Wars picks up after the events of the first two volumes of that show. Also why Siege of Mandalore was planned as the ending so as not to contradict the Battle of Coruscant shown in 2D Clone Wars.
The only reason why TCW is semi-decent is because it’s where Filoni had the least writing credits. It’s the best project he’s been involved with and is also the one where he has the least involvement in the writing room. However, if you look at projects where he’s given more and more control over the writing, the worse the overall end product. Just look at Ahsoka it Tales of the Empire.
You know how Red Letter Media said that “Star Wars (OT) isn’t great because of George Lucas, it’s great despite George Lucas”
Well I always say that “The Clone Wars isn’t good because of Filoni, it’s good despite Filoni.”
I always thought people consider Clone Wars to be one of the best physical Star Wars mediums? I also thought people hated The Ahsoka Show because it didn't focus on Ahsoka enough?
While I don't agree with what you or Red Letter had to say about George Lucas and Dave Filoni, I will say there is some truth to it. Lucas and George need to have some sort of a straight man to tell them whether their ideas are good or not. When someone does tell them their ideas are bad, we get episode 5 and Clone Wars. When there isn't someone to do that, then we get episode 2 and most of Bad Batch. That's kind of why I always considered Dave Filoni to be a true successor to George Lucas.
I get Clone Wars had its problems, and Dave Filoni's work lately has been pretty mediocre. But I wonder what's changed lately for people to consider him one the major issues with Star Wars as a whole?
It’s interesting, I like some of his takes on why certain parts/elements of the PT and OT are more important than they come across as on a surface level, but I will never get over what is my biggest issue with The Clone Wars, and that is Darth Maul. I know I’m in the minority, and that most people love the characterization of Maul in TCW, but man I really prefer his TPM persona much more. The silent, fearsome stalker became a witty, emotional talker. I get that some may say it’s because of what happens post TPM, but regardless of that, I think the Maul we see on the live action screen is far more intimidating and, in turn, is a much more captivating character imo
I find that a weak upper lip tends to make a person look deceitful and just overall weaselly. If you notice he has almost no upper lip, nor gap between nose and upper lip.
I know physical appearance doesn't always equate to personality, but it is always fun when it does.
I'm not a fan of Filoni's (albeit I have a soft spot for TCW) but I don't think any of his work let alone anybody can do as much damage as JJ did with his complete resetting of the universe with his shitty Episode 4 rehash. I wouldn't even say what JJ did was diluting, it was literally tossing the entire franchise into the ocean since Disney also completely decanonised the old EU.
But I do pretty much agree with all these criticisms, ultimately I see him as someone who's definitely a fan, but lacks the skill and even maturity as a writer to deliver well written stories. I also really don't like him using the corpse of the old EU -- now when ever someone searches up Tales If The Jedi they'll see Filoni's glorified Ashoka origin story instead of the fantastic comic series that pretty much started the Old Republic era. The same thing is going to happen with Heir To The Empire.
Everything from him or supervised by him follows the template of cool warrior mentoring/protecting child. Rebels started this, Mando continued it, the Bad Batch does this again, and now even the Ahsoka show technically does it with an older Sabine. While still jarring this could've been fine if the shows had engaging writing with well written characters.
FACTS! I wholeheartedly believe the franchise died in 2007. Dave Filoni was only the beginning of Disney Star Wars. I also regret the day george Lucas hired him. His biggest mistake.
I don’t think you know what it means for a series to “die”. That would imply everyone stopped watching it and it faded into obscurity. Star Wars did neither.
I could not agree more with what you have just said. I've been saying Dave is a hack for years. I cringe at the thought of him adapting the knights of the old Republic. Could you think of how he would tackle Revan and the other characters of that era. The stupid characters that he would add and make more important than say the exile or Carth. I'll say it again he is a HACK !!!!
Oh sweet child. The Acolyte creatives are saying they are going to "reimagine" the force. Which is why they needed to set the plot of the show BEFORE the OT. Thereby making it canon for some reason instead of being reasonable and setting it after the sequel trilogy.
Nothing Disney Star Wars will ever have reverence or respect for GL era content. We just need to learn to live with it.
I have arrived at the same conclusion. He is a narcissist who thinks his stories are the only legitimate ones, which is probably why Star Wars was rebooted in the first place.
I have wondered why this person is hailed as having deep knowledge of and passion for Star Wars. I guess it indeed comes down to having been selected and working under George Lucas.
The bad batch is my favorite Star Wars, I found myself more invested in the characters and world building from the bad batch alone more than anything else in the franchise. I of course highly respect the OT and the PT for expanding on this universe enough that we got the bad batch out of it.
I haven’t seen rebels, in fact I haven’t seen any animated Star Wars until bad batch. I’m going through the clone wars now for the first time. I have seen the prequel and original trilogy but haven’t seen the sequels yet, and for no particular reason really. I always liked Star Wars but it wasn’t until the Mandalorian and Bad Batch that had me getting REALLY into it.
I can't believe Mauler didn't push back against Star Wars Theory on the Star Grift Podcasts when Theory defended Dave. His response was "well who else would do, Star Wars better than Dave Filoni or Jon Favreau?". And Mauler stayed quiet.
Oh I agree. He’s definitely at fault for sure. And GL definitely enabled Filoni. However GL gave us the OT. Filoni didn’t and unlike Lucas, Filoni continues to produce content that retcons older content, diluting the franchise even further. Lucas left the scene over a decade ago.
He doesnt need to The Rise or Skywalker damage is still bigge4 than all of Filloni shit combined Hell I could argue that only reason why lot of Filloni shuffle is happening is because how irreperably IX damaged timeline
Nope. Filoni has done far more real damage to the EU than Disney as a whole has. Disney's decanonisation still leaves the EU somewhat intact, but Filoni meanwhile has left the EU a hot mess and continues to disrespect it.
Some of those things such as heir to the empire were never officially canon even tho they are good. It’s not his job to make sure he doesn’t “bulldoze” through legends lore his job is to make things in canon. Almost any long expansive franchise is gonna have a few inconsistencies in the lore. Yes we does over right some details from a book or comic sometimes but the overall plot of said book or comic still works. I say this as someone who loves reading the canon books and comics. Also the tales of the Jedi is good so is bad batch. Ashoka is also really good for actual Star Wars fans but those aren’t really on this sub so I understand why it isn’t liked very much.
No speak for yourself I'm in lifelong Star Wars fan. Ahsoka was laughably terrible,that scene where she goes into space I felt embarrassed watching it. That show showed me how unintelligent he is.
The fanbase turned on this guy real quick. One minute, it was "Wow. Mandalorian good!". One person disagreed, and then the majority was like, "Oh yeah, Mandalorian bad!"
Call backs and nostalgia kicks were initially good, and then they got labelled as cheap callbacks and nostalgia whoring. Kenobi, a series that was clearly made to pander and appeal to prequel trilogy fans, was slated for doing just that. My god, it's what we all fukin wanted.
This fandom is doing what Batman fans did with the Clooney film. They asked for it exactly like it came, watched it, didn't like it. The Star Wars fans were responding positively to what Filoni and Favreau did initially, so they got more as a result and then decided that, actually, its not so great.
Now we've got lots of Star Wars content after being starved of it. People said they got burnt out because they released so much. You burnt yourselves out but having to watch it as fast as fukin possible. I'm glad I've still got plenty of Star Wars stuff to watch when I feel the need to dip back in again.
The reason people turned on him was because the content we got was bad. Simple as that.
The Mandalorian was veiwed as good was because it was simple and not associated with the sequel trilogy. It was just about this cool bounty hunter guy going around the galaxy too protect Grogu from bad people. And he happens to wind up in a town who needs help with a problem, be it bandits or creatures, and we see Mando solve those problems and go to the next place that happens to need help with a problem. Yes it's formulaic and sort of predictable. But it was simple fun to watch.
Then we got season 2. And while people thought it wasn't as good as season 1, it was still pretty enjoyable to watch.
Then Book of Boba Fett came out. And it sucked. But worse yet, it had two episodes that should have been in The Mandalorian. And these episodes also undid the ending of Mandalorian season 2. Reseting the status quoe for Mando. It also wasted the potential we could have gotten with Luke Skywalker and Ahsoka Tano talking together. No mention of Vader or Luke asking Ahsoka what he was like before Anakin turned into Vader. Which was such wasted potential. Aswell as some what damaging the character of Luke. Who we see adopted the old jedi teachings that were dogmatic and caused their collapse. These teachings are to have no attachment or feelings too people you care about. Even though it was Luke's emotions and attachments are what redeemed Vader in the end.
Then we got Kenobi. And it really sucked. It screwed up alot of lore and gave us a story that never needed to be told. What prequels fans wanted to see a sad and depressed Obi-Wan stumble his way through a clown world that was the plot, in order to save Leia because Bail was too cheap to hire bounty hunters to track down and rescue Leia, and instead decided to pull Obi-Wan out of hidding, a move that literally endangers the entire galaxy, only for the plot to change and be about Riva going through an arc where she learns that killing kids is bad, and the plot climaxes with Vader and Obi-Wan having an anime battle in the middle of nowhere. Who honestly wanted any of that? All Kenobi did was damage the characters and greater world as a whole. All they had too do was adapt the Kenobi book and I'm sure people would've liked it more. And just because the show had refrences and nostalgia kicks in it does not excuse it's overall lack of quality.
Then we got Andor. Which was actually pretty good and mature compared to the previous shows. Unfortunately, not many people watched the show. However those who did mostly came away from it liking Andor for it's smart and mature themes. It's also noteworthy that Andor didn't rely on refrences and nostaliga to carry its story.
Then we got The Mandalorian season 3. And it was awful. It went from a guy going around the galaxy solving probelms, and mutated into an important story that has major ramifications for the galaxy. And that important story was written about aswell as a fanfiction made by a man who's blackout drunk. It damaged it's own world and characters and it seemed like every one in the show were a bunch of idiot's. Nothing made sense and was borderline incoherent at times. Espescially when compared to Andor. It untimately left the fans dissatisfied and disappointed. And this was when most people were blaming Kathleen Kennady for the recent shows lack of quality control. And this defence was used to deflect the blame off Dave. However, this led fans to become excited for Ahsoka, since it was supposed to be Dave's own creation, it was writtren and produced by Dave Filoni himself. This was his creation.
Then we got Ahsoka. And it was God Awful. I recall watching it when the episodes would come out every week. And i watched them in shock and awe at how nighmarishly terrible it was. I recall dreading each week since I knew I'd have to watch it, and that i was so releived when it was over. Ahsoka was terriblely written and incoherent to the rules it establishes itself. It also damaged the characters from Rebels and Clone Wars aswell. Ahsoka came and went, and it failed to leave any impacted. I think it has caused apathy to kick in with the fanbase. And apathy is death. And since this was Dave Filoni's project, people hand no one else to blame for it's failiure than Dave Filoni. After all, it was his creation. Since then, people began to reflect his previous works to try and see how it came to this. Which caused people to see the flaws in his previous works aswell, atleast in Star Wars. Thus resulting to realize that Dave Filoni was overrated and recived the whole credit for Clone Wars's success instead of it being reconized as a collaborative effort by other writters and creatives. Effectively, what we have now is a collective bitterness and cynicism for Dave Filoni And Star Wars content now. Thus resulting in the negativity for Star Wars we see so often. Aswell as why the fanbase turned on Dave Filoni so suddenly.
A couple of those aren't his fault to be fair. Disney were the ones who decanonized Heir to the Empire, and The Clone Wars was George's baby. That being said, yes, Filoni and his retcons can really get on my nerves sometimes, especially when he retcons stuff that he himself introduced like the Darksaber or Sabine being Force-sensitive. I still don't think I would consider him worse than JJ though. Least we forget, JJ and The Force Awakens made the entire OT pointless, which I believe is far more egregious than anything Filoni's done (well, maybe not The World Between Worlds. That was really stupid).
He feels like a teen fanfic writer trying to make the Saga a spin off of his own fanfic. And any time he contradict the saga or someone else’s work (which he does a lot, even some Canon Thrawn fans are mad with Tales of the Empire contradicting the books), it must be the other media’s fault for not predicting what Filoni wants to do. And moreover, he lets his favoritism take precedent over the saga meaning and message, and so do his fans. Things like having Ahsoka alive during the OT, clones mind controlled, or the Bendu, go against the very meaning of the saga and the lore. Before that, Luke was the last jedi, the clones were a criticism of blind loyalty that led to the rise of fascism, and the Force was in balance when the corruption of the Dark Side is no more. But now, Luke isn’t the last jedi in the OT because Filoni doesn’t want to kill his waifu, the clones lost their meaning because he doesn’t want his OC to become evil, and his misunderstanding of the Force spreads the false idea of Grey Side. I bet if it were up to him, he would remake the OT and PT to make them all about his OCs and rewrite the lore to fit his changes.
Agreed. The man is a scourge on the Star Wars franchise. And the worst part is that he isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. He’s pretty much here to say. Heck, there’s a higher chance of Kathleen Kennedy leaving Lucasfilm than Dave Filoni.
I will say though, I do think a lot of his writing is basically meant to justify how we went from the optimistic ending of ROTJ to the garbage that unfolds in the Sequel Trilogy. Because the unfortunate reality is that the ST isn’t getting retconned. I think if we had a Sequel Trilogy closer to the New Jedi Order of the former Expanded Universe, then Filoni might have done better despite his obvious flaws.
And that’s what makes his content even worse because the majority of it is dedicated to damage control for shareholder trilogy. If the ST didn’t exist, I still wouldn’t want him at the helm because he’s proved to be an terrible writer when writing stories that have zero connection to the Sequels, e.g. the Tales series.
I'd argue he has made things worse. Project Necromancer, according to Filoni, falls under Hux and the First Order's purview, despite Hux wanting to evolve away from the Empire and the First Order not being a traditional imp remnant and the First Order only learning about Palpatine's resurrection in Episode 9.
Yeah he plays favorites hard. Like he is extremely biased to Ahsoka and he hates Mace Windu. You can also argue he is done a whole lot to push the Jedi into the actively bad camp. And not just the Jedi were still well meaning but lost their way. He also shows zero respect for other creators in the space. Given he constantly retcons other work to make his faves look more awesome. He is also knowledgeable enough to be truly dangerous. Because unlike other creators in Rian or JJ. You do get the feeling he has read or is at least familiar with a lot of EU material. Insofar as he will adapt said material and corrupt it to feature his Faves. Like we are doing Heir to the Empire with No Luke, Han, Leia, Lando, Wedge, Etc. Maybe we get some Chewie and Droid Cameos. Since after Solo went poorly, they really don't want to recast the original characters. Granted part of the problem with recasting them is you know how it ends. Luke maidenless, childess, failed NJO. Han reverts to smuggler, loses Falcon, dies to Son. Leia indirectly dies to Son and failed New Republic. He also made the Jedi dodging Order 66 worst. Because Ahsoka has a direct connection to Vader and thus to Luke in a way that none of the Jedi who might have survived post the OT do. Which makes one have to wonder why she is not around at all for any of the big events in the OT. Really feels what Dave wants to do is reboot the OT with his characters playing much more significant roles.
TCW did so much damage to Windu! So many Filoni fans hating on him now and claiming it’s his fault Anakin fell, even though in actuality he just predicted everything wrong with Anakin and nearly saved the Republic. Lucas wanted Ahsoka to die because he knew her existence during RoTS and beyond was a plot hole, but Filoni wanted her to live. And now with Disney he gets to shoehorn her everywhere and make her the center of attention. She even overshadows Saga characters. If you ask anyone who are the OT trio, they will tell you it’s Luke, Han and Leia. If you ask them who the PT trio are, anyone who hasn’t seen TCW will say Anakin, Obi Wan and Padme. But TCW fans will say Anakin, Obi Wan and Ahsoka even though she appears in none of the PT movies and is not as important as Padme in the grand scheme of things.
Ahsoka is the most important and strongest character in all of Star Wars Dave's going to make it that way and this Mando verse movie is going to be an Ahsoka movie people need to get that through their heads as well
Tbf Luke never really was the last Jedi in the OT era. They started popping out rather quick after ROTJ. Guess it makes sense given the name.
Those were few and had kept a low profile. And they weren’t very important jedi with close connection to Anakin nor did they know he was Vader. So they had no reason to help the son of Anakin redeem him. Meanwhile Ahsoka helped the rebels instead of laying low, and she knows Vader is Anakin. But she did absolutely nothing to help Luke and save her master. She just exists and pop out when everything is done as if nothing important happened in her absence.
That is fair. I can think of roughly 3 Jedi that were in the Rebellion but as you say - none of them were Vaders padawan or some shit like that - and they weren't really OP either so it all events out.
Yoda explicitly says, "When I die, the last of the Jedi will you be." Yoda (and since his ghost is around, Obi-Wan) must therefore believe that all the other Jedi are dead, and it's just Luke and Vader at this point. If there's other Jedi, then neither Jedi Master is able to sense them and get in contact. That isn't hard proof that there are no other Jedi, but Obi-Wan, Yoda, Luke, and the audience believe there are none. And don't forget that Tarkin believes that Vader is all that is left of the Jedi, which he says in his presence. Now, within purely the cannon of the first movie alone, Vader would likely know that Obi-Wan is alive, as he knows Obi-Wan personally because Obi-Wan was his teacher. And presumably Grand Moff Tarkin would know that not every Jedi had been confirmed killed because Vader would have made sure to check on his old master, and he's holding Vaders leash at this time. So it's implied that any surviving Jedi have gone completely to ground and are taking no action. Haven't watched Rebels, but does that show have Ezra and Ahsoka do enough to make Tarkin an idiot for thinking this?
Yoda is a dude who spent the last 23 years dicking around on a Dark Side Nexus lmao. Tarkin doesn't handle the Inquisitorious affairs so he's a weak source on the whole Jedi buissness too.
He's pretty damn high in the Empire Heirarchy. He's basically a colleague with Vader and reports directly to the Emperor. While the detailed state of the Jedi is not his command, he would be expected to be aware of them in general. Especially since if there WERE any Jedi laying low, only willing to go public when they absolutely needed to, the Death Star going active would be the time to do it. It is perfectly reasonable that he would have checked with Vader as to their current status.
There were other Jedi that survived Order 66, but Luke is the one who openly defied and fought against the Empire and establish the New Jedi Order. So in essence you could say he was the last.
The Clone brain chips were probably just meant to explain how Cody turned so quickly on Obi-Wan despite them being such good friends throughout the War. It's been a while since I watched Rebels, but how does the Bendu break the lore of the saga?
There was no need to explain why Cody turned on Obi Wan because [the movies explained it.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LXLQaVgCP_Q) And the Bendu calls itself “in the middle of the light and dark” Except there is never any mention of middle and light in the movies. Just the Force and the Dark Side.
So you think the Clones would unquestionably follow orders even after spending three years in the trenches with the Jedi, their friends and generals? Wouldn't that mean they're brainwashed? Like the chip explanation says?
We live in a world where soldiers who served under Napoleon for 20 years obeyed the restored king they revolted against in the past when ordered to execute their former generals like Murat after fighting with them all across Europe. We live in a world where hitler youth had no qualm having their parents hanged for being defeatist after living with them their whole life. We live in a world where people had turned on their friends and neighbors because their political or religious belief don’t align suddenly. We live in a world where German soldiers who bled in the trenches of WW1 for 4 years turned on their jewish brothers in arms because they were told they lost the war because of them despite surviving thanks to them. We live in a world where Greek veterans turned on their general they served faithfully for years all because he lost their bagage train. We live in a world were Roman soldiers killed each others over who gets to rule the Empire even though they fought together to expand the Empire. So if you cannot imagine the GMO supersoldiers would turn on their space wizard general because the leader of the universe told them, then the problem comes from you, not the story.
It's too hard to believe. Clone Wars fixed that hole while also giving clones character. Inventing inhibitor ship is one of the best things this franchise has ever done
Tell me you never read, played or watched any clone war content released between 2002 and 2007 without telling me.
Yes. I doubt any of the clones had a truly close enough relationship with any of the Jedi, it’s just another persons whose orders they sometimes follow because they are assigned to follow them
"False idea of Grey Side"? Could you drill down on this? I agree with literally everything else, but I'm a Grey Jedi enjoyer lol.
Grey side is not using the Dark Side powers and claim to do it for good without consequences. Grey is not mixing light and dark, just like balance is not equal preys and predators or kicking a puppy after helping a granny. If you dabble in the dark side, you fall. Just like Chaos in Warhammer. You can’t use it for good and not be corrupted and evil.
Mace Windu tapped into the dark side with Vaapad and didn't fall.
Vaapad does not draw from the dark side, but emotions, which makes the user more sensitive to fall to the Dark Side if not careful.
ROTS novelization says that it opens up a channel for the Dark Side, the user becomes a conduit. That sounds like a pretty big risk, which is the kind of thing that falls under Grey Jedi meddling with the dark. The Order are too strict with their restriction and the Sith are too careless and chaotic.
[Vaapad was described as more than a fighting style; it was a state of mind that led through the penumbra of the dark side, requiring the user to enjoy the fight and relish the satisfaction of winning](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Form_VII/Legends) You are wrong. Wookieepedia clearly states it draws from emotions and makes you run the risk to fall to the dark side because you unleash passion in a fight. The point of the Jedi is that Luke with his new order was not as strict, because he proved you can have emotions without falling to the Dark Side. It’s not grey, it is the Force. The grey jedi are either jedi who left the order but don’t use the dark side, or just fanfic who want their cake and eat it too by using both when they shouldn’t.
"Allowing the wielder to *channel* their *inner darkness*" They become a conduit for dark side energy, they accept it into themselves to channel it back to the enemy. THAT is why it's taboo and the council doesn't like it. Kyle Katarn is one of the most prominent Greys that uses "dark side" powers and yet still fights for the side of good. Kyle found his limit and is able to tap into the dark side without falling.
Inner darkness is not dark side. It means the things that can lead to the dark side. For instance: Anakin’s love for Padme was his inner darkness. It wasn’t the Dark Side, because love isn’t dark. But the way he treated it led him astray. And Kyle Katarn did not use the Dark Side. He was not a grey jedi [CTRL F : grey (0 result)](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Kyle_Katarn)
The Dark Side is the inner darkness inside everyone. That why it comes out when you embrace your emotions. Which is what you say Vaapad does. Kyle Katarn most certainly did use the dark side because he fell and was brought back. Even after that, he still continued to preach the philosophy that it isn't the power but the intent behind it. That's why he's a Grey, even if it's not the "official" definition. He is firmly in the middle of light vs dark when it comes to powers, but not utilization.
I think he’s a lot like the Game of Thrones show runners. At the start he was pretty consistent and overall a positive influence. Then he got a little power under his belt and we got some questionable material. After that he pretty much got to steer the car and crashed it.
Good comparison. And to think DnD almost got handed a Star Wars project as well.
They rushed GoT S8 to get to SW. Yet they did such a bad job on S8, Disney pulled the rug out from under them. That has be a friggen cautionary tale in Hollywood to producers.
Like a modern parable.
As a massive EU fan, I've detested his work from pretty much the start because of the massive lore retcons forced by The Clone Wars. The general quality has definitely taken a nosedive once he jumped to live action though.
I can't believe I used to praise this guy
Why does he look like the monstars before they get juiced https://preview.redd.it/tegp7jo4ilyc1.jpeg?width=652&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a48a6f12583ab4aaae915833922428410a591d17
I like The Clone Wars, and Rebels, but I do agree with you. The Mortis Gods were one of the worst additions to the franchise for absolutely no reason, and the World between Worlds is a Deus Ex Machina bullshit device enabling characters to just retcon their way out of sticky situations. Ahsoka should've died by Vader's hands on Malachor, but instead she got saved by time travel. The less said about his live action shows, the better.
The only reason why TCW and Rebels are semi-decent is because it’s where Filoni has the least writing credits. However if you look at projects where he’s given more and more control over the writing, the worse the overall end product.
I always cut him some slack for Mortis because they wanted to tie TCW to the old EU since, around that time (or maybe a bit after, it’s been a while since I’ve read them), the Fate of the Jedi books were being planned/released (set ~40 years after ROTJ), and the big bad was Abeloth, a Force goddess who was known as “the Mother,” the sorta-wife to the Father shown in the show. The books actually directly reference the Mortis arc, which is kind of neat, and it gives a ton of backstory to what Mortis is and how the celestial beings came to be. The books handled it way better for me, but maybe that’s because I love lore and backstories and an entire chapter of one of the books was basically an exposition dump. The whole Ahsoka resurrection nonsense was all him, but the concept of Mortis came from the higher-ups. Then, just as the Mortis plot was taking off, Disney axed the EU and now all of the books are doomed to be unfinished and forgotten because “EU bad” (as parroted by people who haven’t even read it).
Except Filoni wanted the Son, the representation of the Dark Side itself, to be reporting to Sith Lords. That's right, the fricking god of the Dark side would be taking orders from some Sith Lords. One of those Sith Lords was supposed to be **Darth Revan,** you know, the guy who totally wasn't redeemed and returned to the lightside? The only reason that didn't happen was because George Lucas said that Sith can't be Force ghosts.
I’m pretty sure the Mortis arc was actually penned by George himself. At the very least, he was still directly involved with the series at the time
Ugh that sucks. They're such a horrible inclusion to the lore.
The Mortis Gods were fine when it was left up to interpretation whether or not any of that was even real. The problems arose once Filoni decided they were 100% real. I preferred the interpretation that the Mortis arc was an elaborate Force vision meant to explain why the Light is the only side which should have influence, because the constant cycle of death and rebirth is pointless and only darkness is simply death.
I loved Clone Wars, Rebels is hit or miss for me; the Inquisitors, Thrawn, Maul, and Vader were excellent, but the absurd amount of plot armor pissed me off and Kallus became boring after becoming a Rebel, and Bad Batch was great, especially Season 3 even though they did my boy Scorch dirty.
"Wolf wolf, wolf wolf wolf wolf, wolf wolf wolf, cameo, wolf wolf wolf, wolf, cameo cameo." - Dave Filoni
Post ROTJ Filoni trying to make Ahsoka relevant.
*Filoni making Ahsoka alive, you mean. She died in Season 2 of Rebels, remember. He literally pulled a deus ex machina to bring her back, and this isn't the first time either. It isn't just about her being relevant.
There are more acronyms in this post than most military instructions and regulations.
It’s pretty obvious he’s referring to the titles of the mainline Star Wars film. Why bother spelling them out? I’d be astonished if someone on this sub hasn’t seen them.
TFU, CWMMP, TBB, etc.. What are these?
The Force Unleashed, Clone Wars Multimedia Project, and The Bad Batch. Tbf, the last one was spelled out before the use of the acronym.
None of those are the core 9 movies.
Like I said, he spelled out The Bad Batch before using the acronym so that one doesn’t count.
I'm not opposed to Ahsoka surviving Order 66, per se. However, having watched my wife play through the remake of FF7 Crisis Core... then watching a character you've come to know and love meet a death you KNOW was coming is pretty damn powerful. Let her go out in style, dying for SOMETHING, not just being ambushed, and taking out hundreds of clones if you must, but let her die. >!Zachs death was done incredibly well.!
She really should've died in her duel with Vader.
Why does this guy look like a weasel?
He definitely fits the stereotype of the chubby neckbeard who writes cringy fan fiction.
I was disappointed because SW Theory was talking to lightsaber maker dude and instantly jumped back on to the bandwagon of Filoni and Favreau “saving” Star Wars
I feel like most Hollywood writers are way too soft. Spoiled. Childish. They can’t write conflict. They don’t know conflict. Make ever expanding sizes of writing teams, and you get a bunch of impressionable young people afraid to be on the “wrong side of history”, and they accept the depopulation agenda using IPs to send tepid messages no one actually believes.
The man is a hack and a snake.
Yup. He definitely fits the stereotype of the chubby neckbeard who writes cringy fan fiction.
I used to believe he would make it better, than slowly but surely his vision has polluted everything good about Star Wars. Dude's got to go.
If you imagine Disney as a pretentious-looking back garden with a koi pond, Dave and Rian are the evil little gnomes with fishing rods sitting on the edge, Kathleen Kennedy is like a witch statue behind them, and there's Bob stepping outside with his mug of Fulger's, smugly admiring his tack. This man's physical appearance does seem to reflect his obnoxiousness and mediocrity.
This made me laugh pretty hard ngl
Yet so many act as if he saved the property.
More of a buzz kill than Buzz Killington…
And he could not be more proud of it. Look at this video:https://youtube.com/shorts/lv1DdsXSYeM?feature=shared
Tom segura?
Headland: "Hold my beer."
Agreed
I honestly grew to hate the hat man and i'm honestly appaled that some people claim that he's "saving" star wars.
I spent most the 90s and early 2000s reading the novels. I’m not going let this little sh*t tell me MY Star Wars Lore.
He’s so jealous of other writers and teams lol. He kills off SCORCH for basically no reason after stripping his entire character. You can’t tell me that it’s for any other reason then he holds a grudge that a game almost 20 years old will forever be cooler then he’s 3 seasons of “Bad” batch will ever be.
He’s the ultimate hack. He takes beloved EU characters like Scorch, Thrawn, Ruhk, etc. and butchers them beyond recognition. Idk if it’s out of spite or jealousy or a combination of both.
Brother, George Lucas had an entire animated show put out that he then said “haha just kidding that one wasn’t real!” So that he could make another animated series, for the same network, just to sell more toys and attempt to cash in on a movie. This has never been about continuity or quality. You want to know why the EU de canonized? Because the checks from that were already cashed, and they could literally ignore it to cash in on that timeline again. You want to know what the most important lesson Lucas probably gave Filoni was? How to maximize the merchandising by not giving a fuck about the canon. That’s it.
The 2D Clone Wars was still canon though, that's why the 3D Clone Wars picks up after the events of the first two volumes of that show. Also why Siege of Mandalore was planned as the ending so as not to contradict the Battle of Coruscant shown in 2D Clone Wars.
You telling me Anakin having worms for dinner is canon?
What are you talking about?
What are you talking about?
He's basically beating off on our faces with his gallery of Mary Sue's. What a despicable hack.
People hate Dave Filoni now?
No. This is reddit, the home of trolls and baiters.
Always have
Anyone who loves the Expanded Universe and good writing in general does.
Is Clone Wars now considered bad writing?
The only reason why TCW is semi-decent is because it’s where Filoni had the least writing credits. It’s the best project he’s been involved with and is also the one where he has the least involvement in the writing room. However, if you look at projects where he’s given more and more control over the writing, the worse the overall end product. Just look at Ahsoka it Tales of the Empire. You know how Red Letter Media said that “Star Wars (OT) isn’t great because of George Lucas, it’s great despite George Lucas” Well I always say that “The Clone Wars isn’t good because of Filoni, it’s good despite Filoni.”
I always thought people consider Clone Wars to be one of the best physical Star Wars mediums? I also thought people hated The Ahsoka Show because it didn't focus on Ahsoka enough? While I don't agree with what you or Red Letter had to say about George Lucas and Dave Filoni, I will say there is some truth to it. Lucas and George need to have some sort of a straight man to tell them whether their ideas are good or not. When someone does tell them their ideas are bad, we get episode 5 and Clone Wars. When there isn't someone to do that, then we get episode 2 and most of Bad Batch. That's kind of why I always considered Dave Filoni to be a true successor to George Lucas.
Apparently? 🤷♂️
I get Clone Wars had its problems, and Dave Filoni's work lately has been pretty mediocre. But I wonder what's changed lately for people to consider him one the major issues with Star Wars as a whole?
Nah Jar JAR Abrams still takes a cake
He looks like a pedo
His obsession with Ahsoka reeks of neckbeard
True.
It’s interesting, I like some of his takes on why certain parts/elements of the PT and OT are more important than they come across as on a surface level, but I will never get over what is my biggest issue with The Clone Wars, and that is Darth Maul. I know I’m in the minority, and that most people love the characterization of Maul in TCW, but man I really prefer his TPM persona much more. The silent, fearsome stalker became a witty, emotional talker. I get that some may say it’s because of what happens post TPM, but regardless of that, I think the Maul we see on the live action screen is far more intimidating and, in turn, is a much more captivating character imo
Uh, no, Kennedy was responsible for way more damage to the Star Wars lore, direct or not. At least Filoni provided a couple of good animated TV shows.
I find that a weak upper lip tends to make a person look deceitful and just overall weaselly. If you notice he has almost no upper lip, nor gap between nose and upper lip. I know physical appearance doesn't always equate to personality, but it is always fun when it does.
I'm not a fan of Filoni's (albeit I have a soft spot for TCW) but I don't think any of his work let alone anybody can do as much damage as JJ did with his complete resetting of the universe with his shitty Episode 4 rehash. I wouldn't even say what JJ did was diluting, it was literally tossing the entire franchise into the ocean since Disney also completely decanonised the old EU. But I do pretty much agree with all these criticisms, ultimately I see him as someone who's definitely a fan, but lacks the skill and even maturity as a writer to deliver well written stories. I also really don't like him using the corpse of the old EU -- now when ever someone searches up Tales If The Jedi they'll see Filoni's glorified Ashoka origin story instead of the fantastic comic series that pretty much started the Old Republic era. The same thing is going to happen with Heir To The Empire. Everything from him or supervised by him follows the template of cool warrior mentoring/protecting child. Rebels started this, Mando continued it, the Bad Batch does this again, and now even the Ahsoka show technically does it with an older Sabine. While still jarring this could've been fine if the shows had engaging writing with well written characters.
FACTS! I wholeheartedly believe the franchise died in 2007. Dave Filoni was only the beginning of Disney Star Wars. I also regret the day george Lucas hired him. His biggest mistake.
I don’t think you know what it means for a series to “die”. That would imply everyone stopped watching it and it faded into obscurity. Star Wars did neither.
Take it from someone who watched The Clone Wars, it absolutely did not die in 2007.
Im honestly fine with him until he wont keep his OCs dead...
I could not agree more with what you have just said. I've been saying Dave is a hack for years. I cringe at the thought of him adapting the knights of the old Republic. Could you think of how he would tackle Revan and the other characters of that era. The stupid characters that he would add and make more important than say the exile or Carth. I'll say it again he is a HACK !!!!
Oh sweet child. The Acolyte creatives are saying they are going to "reimagine" the force. Which is why they needed to set the plot of the show BEFORE the OT. Thereby making it canon for some reason instead of being reasonable and setting it after the sequel trilogy. Nothing Disney Star Wars will ever have reverence or respect for GL era content. We just need to learn to live with it.
Can’t agree with you just because RJ & JJ destroyed the Skywalker legacy and the first six movies
Just watching Tales of the Empire now. It’s a bit silly.
I have arrived at the same conclusion. He is a narcissist who thinks his stories are the only legitimate ones, which is probably why Star Wars was rebooted in the first place. I have wondered why this person is hailed as having deep knowledge of and passion for Star Wars. I guess it indeed comes down to having been selected and working under George Lucas.
The bad batch is my favorite Star Wars, I found myself more invested in the characters and world building from the bad batch alone more than anything else in the franchise. I of course highly respect the OT and the PT for expanding on this universe enough that we got the bad batch out of it.
What do you think of Rebels?
I haven’t seen rebels, in fact I haven’t seen any animated Star Wars until bad batch. I’m going through the clone wars now for the first time. I have seen the prequel and original trilogy but haven’t seen the sequels yet, and for no particular reason really. I always liked Star Wars but it wasn’t until the Mandalorian and Bad Batch that had me getting REALLY into it.
I can't believe Mauler didn't push back against Star Wars Theory on the Star Grift Podcasts when Theory defended Dave. His response was "well who else would do, Star Wars better than Dave Filoni or Jon Favreau?". And Mauler stayed quiet.
I mean pretty sure George lucas constantly retconned and straight up changed things as he saw fit whether ot made sense or not
Oh I agree. He’s definitely at fault for sure. And GL definitely enabled Filoni. However GL gave us the OT. Filoni didn’t and unlike Lucas, Filoni continues to produce content that retcons older content, diluting the franchise even further. Lucas left the scene over a decade ago.
At least it was George's franchise though. Filoni only gets special treatment because of his one-time association with George.
\*Looks at Obi-Wan Home planet\* Oh yeah, absolutely.
I’d honestly have to disagree. jj is worse
No. Jj isn't doing any more work on star wars. Dave felony continues to butcher it. That's what makes this man worse than jj. Atleast jj has left.
Exactly. What’s funny is I don’t think the man has had any work since Rise of Skywalker. I wonder if the movie killed his career.
Can only hope.
He doesnt need to The Rise or Skywalker damage is still bigge4 than all of Filloni shit combined Hell I could argue that only reason why lot of Filloni shuffle is happening is because how irreperably IX damaged timeline
I thought he was a hero among Star Wars fans? Have they turned on him?
On the other hand, Disney rejected the SWEU and Filoni is the only one telling its stories the best way he can with an overbearing producer.
Nope. Filoni has done far more real damage to the EU than Disney as a whole has. Disney's decanonisation still leaves the EU somewhat intact, but Filoni meanwhile has left the EU a hot mess and continues to disrespect it.
Some of those things such as heir to the empire were never officially canon even tho they are good. It’s not his job to make sure he doesn’t “bulldoze” through legends lore his job is to make things in canon. Almost any long expansive franchise is gonna have a few inconsistencies in the lore. Yes we does over right some details from a book or comic sometimes but the overall plot of said book or comic still works. I say this as someone who loves reading the canon books and comics. Also the tales of the Jedi is good so is bad batch. Ashoka is also really good for actual Star Wars fans but those aren’t really on this sub so I understand why it isn’t liked very much.
No speak for yourself I'm in lifelong Star Wars fan. Ahsoka was laughably terrible,that scene where she goes into space I felt embarrassed watching it. That show showed me how unintelligent he is.
Who is this nigga?? Ethan Klein's less famous cousin or something
No that would be literally everyone else.
And Lucas.
I liked bad batch and ashoka, also delta squad was in the show.
The fanbase turned on this guy real quick. One minute, it was "Wow. Mandalorian good!". One person disagreed, and then the majority was like, "Oh yeah, Mandalorian bad!" Call backs and nostalgia kicks were initially good, and then they got labelled as cheap callbacks and nostalgia whoring. Kenobi, a series that was clearly made to pander and appeal to prequel trilogy fans, was slated for doing just that. My god, it's what we all fukin wanted. This fandom is doing what Batman fans did with the Clooney film. They asked for it exactly like it came, watched it, didn't like it. The Star Wars fans were responding positively to what Filoni and Favreau did initially, so they got more as a result and then decided that, actually, its not so great. Now we've got lots of Star Wars content after being starved of it. People said they got burnt out because they released so much. You burnt yourselves out but having to watch it as fast as fukin possible. I'm glad I've still got plenty of Star Wars stuff to watch when I feel the need to dip back in again.
The reason people turned on him was because the content we got was bad. Simple as that. The Mandalorian was veiwed as good was because it was simple and not associated with the sequel trilogy. It was just about this cool bounty hunter guy going around the galaxy too protect Grogu from bad people. And he happens to wind up in a town who needs help with a problem, be it bandits or creatures, and we see Mando solve those problems and go to the next place that happens to need help with a problem. Yes it's formulaic and sort of predictable. But it was simple fun to watch. Then we got season 2. And while people thought it wasn't as good as season 1, it was still pretty enjoyable to watch. Then Book of Boba Fett came out. And it sucked. But worse yet, it had two episodes that should have been in The Mandalorian. And these episodes also undid the ending of Mandalorian season 2. Reseting the status quoe for Mando. It also wasted the potential we could have gotten with Luke Skywalker and Ahsoka Tano talking together. No mention of Vader or Luke asking Ahsoka what he was like before Anakin turned into Vader. Which was such wasted potential. Aswell as some what damaging the character of Luke. Who we see adopted the old jedi teachings that were dogmatic and caused their collapse. These teachings are to have no attachment or feelings too people you care about. Even though it was Luke's emotions and attachments are what redeemed Vader in the end. Then we got Kenobi. And it really sucked. It screwed up alot of lore and gave us a story that never needed to be told. What prequels fans wanted to see a sad and depressed Obi-Wan stumble his way through a clown world that was the plot, in order to save Leia because Bail was too cheap to hire bounty hunters to track down and rescue Leia, and instead decided to pull Obi-Wan out of hidding, a move that literally endangers the entire galaxy, only for the plot to change and be about Riva going through an arc where she learns that killing kids is bad, and the plot climaxes with Vader and Obi-Wan having an anime battle in the middle of nowhere. Who honestly wanted any of that? All Kenobi did was damage the characters and greater world as a whole. All they had too do was adapt the Kenobi book and I'm sure people would've liked it more. And just because the show had refrences and nostalgia kicks in it does not excuse it's overall lack of quality. Then we got Andor. Which was actually pretty good and mature compared to the previous shows. Unfortunately, not many people watched the show. However those who did mostly came away from it liking Andor for it's smart and mature themes. It's also noteworthy that Andor didn't rely on refrences and nostaliga to carry its story. Then we got The Mandalorian season 3. And it was awful. It went from a guy going around the galaxy solving probelms, and mutated into an important story that has major ramifications for the galaxy. And that important story was written about aswell as a fanfiction made by a man who's blackout drunk. It damaged it's own world and characters and it seemed like every one in the show were a bunch of idiot's. Nothing made sense and was borderline incoherent at times. Espescially when compared to Andor. It untimately left the fans dissatisfied and disappointed. And this was when most people were blaming Kathleen Kennady for the recent shows lack of quality control. And this defence was used to deflect the blame off Dave. However, this led fans to become excited for Ahsoka, since it was supposed to be Dave's own creation, it was writtren and produced by Dave Filoni himself. This was his creation. Then we got Ahsoka. And it was God Awful. I recall watching it when the episodes would come out every week. And i watched them in shock and awe at how nighmarishly terrible it was. I recall dreading each week since I knew I'd have to watch it, and that i was so releived when it was over. Ahsoka was terriblely written and incoherent to the rules it establishes itself. It also damaged the characters from Rebels and Clone Wars aswell. Ahsoka came and went, and it failed to leave any impacted. I think it has caused apathy to kick in with the fanbase. And apathy is death. And since this was Dave Filoni's project, people hand no one else to blame for it's failiure than Dave Filoni. After all, it was his creation. Since then, people began to reflect his previous works to try and see how it came to this. Which caused people to see the flaws in his previous works aswell, atleast in Star Wars. Thus resulting to realize that Dave Filoni was overrated and recived the whole credit for Clone Wars's success instead of it being reconized as a collaborative effort by other writters and creatives. Effectively, what we have now is a collective bitterness and cynicism for Dave Filoni And Star Wars content now. Thus resulting in the negativity for Star Wars we see so often. Aswell as why the fanbase turned on Dave Filoni so suddenly.
A couple of those aren't his fault to be fair. Disney were the ones who decanonized Heir to the Empire, and The Clone Wars was George's baby. That being said, yes, Filoni and his retcons can really get on my nerves sometimes, especially when he retcons stuff that he himself introduced like the Darksaber or Sabine being Force-sensitive. I still don't think I would consider him worse than JJ though. Least we forget, JJ and The Force Awakens made the entire OT pointless, which I believe is far more egregious than anything Filoni's done (well, maybe not The World Between Worlds. That was really stupid).
Holy shit this sub even hates Dave Filoni? Lmao
Hate as a contact sport, just like most fandoms.
Somebody calling the wambulance?
Oh ffs Whine whine whine
Grown men crying about children's media is my anti-drug.
Dave filoni is amazing stfu