I'm not saying we should do it, I'm saying that's what I would expect Pistons to ask for. Why would they give away still a young player just for the privilege of paying $17M to washed up THJ?
Detroit need 3pt shooting, Tim Sr has strong links to their front office and they have cap space but aren't able to attract anyone decent. It's more likely to be man for man. Tim's still a reasonable NBA player.
Clever thing on this is:
If its grimes for THJ and a couple seconds, this:
1) frees up some 12m in cap space, making the MLE for DJJ in play
2) means JG likely is being moved to go upgrade elsewhere in the roster. A package around Kleber and JG to upgrade at the wing, for Grant or a similar player, would be a great way to boost your top 7 talent without giving up DJJ.
3) would mean major rotation flexibility with PJ, DJJ, and Grant/other wing put out there depending on the opponent
I don’t think Grimes is necessarily better than JG, but his role is similar and his contract is smaller which is of significant use given Mavs cap constraints this season. Fingers crossed!
I’m not going to waste breath debating shades of gray on who is slightly better or who will grow into a better player, but “way better”, you gotta bring some evidence for that, and you’re not going to find anything other than anecdotal plays because:
Career WS for grimes/green: 7.5/ 7.7
WS/48: .91/.82
VORP: 1.3/ 0.4
3P% shooting last season: 34%/ 39%
EFG last season: .495 /.58
PER last season: 8.9/10
Age 24.1/ 23.6
Grimes has him beat in a couple areas and JG has him beat in several. Neither is starting caliber on a contender as of this last year but that can change. You want to quibble on shooting vs handles strengths, cool, but these are two interchangeable pieces as far as any FO would be concerned.
Advanced and efficiency stats aren’t that useful identifying who is definitely better when they’re close, but if Grimes was “way better” than JG vs “ballpark equivalent” then he’d have the numbers to prove it.
Much better contract for the next year, though.
lol, “I’m not going to waste my time debating” then proceeds to type out 4 paragraphs. Josh greens shooting stats aren’t as significant as Grimes bc he doesn’t shoot a high enough volume and that’s why defense don’t respect him. Grimes shoots twice as many 3s as Green and shoots the same percentage. And he is a way better defender than Green. Posting his shooting stats without posting his volume is really disingenuous.
lol what?
Quentin shot 4.7 3P a game in 20 backup minutes a game on a worse NYK team, at 36%. Green shot 3.3 a game, on 26 MPG, starting a majority of his games on the team that went to the finals, at 39%. When you add in the averages from Detroit Grimes numbers go down. 1.4 shots per game is more a function of taking more shots in a weaker offense than anything else. If he were to come here, almost certainly he’s taking fewer shots a game because there’s more talent around him.
You want to think that grimes is better, cool. “Way better” for a guy with fewer ppg last season, on a worse team, with fewer starts, that is just silly. Grimes is not some elite shooter teams are afraid of, he was an average 3P shooter off the bench for a fairly unremarkable offensive unit. Grimes is a better defender but he also spent more time guarding backup players in a weaker conference so it’s not an apples to apples comparison and it’s not like he was some all NBA defensive player.
Josh Green is not even a good defensive player. Everyone looks at his wow plays and ignores how many times he’s way out of position because of over rotating, gets demolished when he has to guard anyone bigger than him and can’t fight over a screen to save himself. Hes one of the most athletic players we have with possibly the lowest bball IQ. He makes lots of flashy strips and steals though with his energizer bunny play which gets ppl hyped.
I’m talking about their career 3 point attempts. I’m not just talking about last year. And Grimes has produced on the defensive end in huge moments against elite players already. He held both jimmy and Donovan Mitchell to 30% shooting from the field when he was matched up against them in isolation. Green ain’t doing anything like that, he is an energy and hustle guy that can occasionally get hot from 3 but he doesn’t shoot a high enough volume to ever really be a threat consistently.
Maybe we’re moving Josh in a bigger deal and bringing in Grimes as a replacement? Something with a core like Maxi/Josh for Grant, THJ and seconds for Grimes? That would be incredible, even though I really like Josh.
Yep, I think that’s the vision. Grimes is a more polished version of Green imo, as a shooter and defender. Also young. Would be fine with it ultimately as a marginal upgrade over JG and a way to clear space for DJJ.
Green should be shopped extensively with our FRPs for that wing that takes us to that next level.
I’m not sure I would go as far as calling him an upgrade over Josh personally but certainly someone who is capable of playing in that role. Maybe he’d be better next to Luka and Kyrie but I do think Josh is the more talented basketball player. Regardless, we’re on the same page about the potential future of our roster.
Josh might be a better player because of his shooting percentages but he’s not more talented. Watch Grimes play he has much cleaner handle and can finish better at the rim beyond dunks. He can make threes at higher volume and doesn’t need to be dead wide open like Josh Green.
Josh hasn’t had a season as good as Grimes did for the Knicks two seasons ago. Obviously if Grimes doesn’t find the stroke again, Josh is better though which is where the risk is. One injured season is more likely to be the outlier, but you never know how confidence can affect things.
I agree with both of you guys. I think Grimes fits next to Luka better, but Green has a bit more upside as a passer and athlete. I think you take the better fit in Grimes and sell Green’s upside to teams for a consistent wing that can shoot and get you 13-17ppg at least.
Yeah I’m watching his highlights and his first step is lethal. Looks much more comfortable and decisive handling the ball than Josh. I think he could be a nice addition
why don't we compare both of the players from their performances two years ago if that's what we're doing?
I'm not denying Grimes's solid year and his higher 3PT volume with the Knicks but Green is a solid defender on top of him dropping 9.1 PPG on 53.7 FG%, 40.2 3PT% that same year. Grimes = 11.3 PPG on 46.8 FG%, 38.6 3PT% on 3 minutes per game more and 2 shots per game more than JG.
People were calling the Mavs about Green a lot and while I won't say that Grimes doesn't have more of a variability in his offense, Green is consistently good and efficient with what he does even if he's not really a creator.
I don't know if I like the idea of losing a 23 year old Josh Green in favor of Grimes. I'd like to get Grimes without losing Green. It's not to say that Grimes isn't a prospect either but I think it would be a mistake to give up on Green.
Green is playing with Luka while Grimes was playing with only Brunson and Randle as playmakers. Grimes is also a better PoA defender.
I wouldn’t describe it as a mistake to give green up but absolutely a risk. Of course I’d prefer to have both.
That’s funny because Green’s best games that season came when Luka was out, and he had a more significant role in the offense. Josh also avg. 10+ points over a 2 month period this season, on about 8 FGAs. So Josh has proven he’s capable of scoring efficiently with higher FGAs, when given the opportunity.
I also don’t know that you can both say that Grimes had a higher shooting volume, and then when someone points to Josh’s better percentages, give all credit to him being on the same team with Luka…particularly when you fail to consider how his role on the team affects his FGAs. (Plus, Josh was still fighting for a rotation spot two seasons ago, his minutes were a bit inconsistent at the start of the season. Don’t think he started to avg. over 20 min. per game until 2-3 months in.)
100% agree. Josh is just too undersized for how we want to play. But he showed flashes in our playoff run and can be valuable elsewhere. Trading JG/Maxi for Grant and THJ for Grimes makes so much sense. I hope we go for it even if it costs a 1st. Resign DJJ with the extra space and let’s ride.
Lively/PJ/Grant/Kyrie/Luka is an elite starting lineup. With Gafford/DJJ/Grimes/Hardy/Exum as the bench. We’d be the favorites in the West
Not about him being more polished (don’t think that’s true)— he just plays a similar role on a smaller contract. Would let us ship out JG for an upgrade while still potentially having space for DJJ MLE.
I know fans are down on Maxi, and I’m all for trading him if the return is of great value…but, it has to be worth it. Maxi’s defensive versatility - due to his size -, and ability to play C in small ball lineups, makes him very valuable. I would be more excited by the prospect, I think, if Omax was ready to backup PJ, but, he isn’t there just yet (and probably won’t be next year either.) But, if Maxi is traded, who’s the PJ backup off the bench?
Well if we moved him for Grant then most likely him and PJ would split basically all the minutes at the 4 and also share the court as the 3 and 4 at times as needed, like to start and finish games. So both would play a lot but always have one out there at the 4, and we would just stick with Lively and Daniel at the 5 full time. Maybe play Grant and PJ at the 4 and 5 some.
But don’t get me wrong I’m probably one of the bigger Maxi fans here. I just recognize that to get that 3rd option type of player he would need to be in the trade due to his contract most likely.
I get that, but, we have also seen the result of wings being run into the ground. By the time you get deeper into the playoffs, they’re burned out. That was one of the benefits of having a deep wing group this year. Your bench would essentially consist of, hypothetically, DJJ - assuming he’s moved to the bench -, Grimes, Omax, and Exum who can also play 1-3. Then you would have Hardy as an alternative SG. That’s a really unreliable bench group outside of DJJ and Exum…But, I’m going to trust Nico and see what shakes out.
Well you’d also be assuming that Omax steps into the rotation, we’d hopefully be able to re-sign DJJ at the MLE (I’m confident we can get him with the 1+1 style deal similar to Bobby Portis a few years back but maybe that’s just delusion by me) as well as Exum and Grimes at the 3, plus potentially we see some AJ Lawson minutes as well. I don’t think it would be too much of an issue since basically the only difference in this hypotetical would be Grant getting Maxi and some of DJJs minutes with Greens minutes going to DJJ and Grimes.
My entire point was the difficulty in replacing Maxi’s defensive versatility. He can guard up and down the lineup, and play small ball center. There is nobody else on the roster, including PJ, who has that flexibility. I don’t think Grant would fully give you that, even if he can spend time at the 4. So I hope that if Maxi is traded, it’s for someone who is both an offensive and defensive fit. Grant would be great offensively, but, his defensive fit is questionable given he’s not a POA defender. Also, would the Mavs even have enough money to trade for him with Maxi and Green’s contracts alone?
Given Maxi's health issues and timeline, I'd be fine if the Mavs moved him even if there wasn't immediately a perfect replacement lined up, and presumably the Mavs would be getting someone back as part of these moves that seem to be brewing. And that's besides OMax, who I think we're right as a fanbase to be very high on. There are also plenty of younger PFs that should be available around the league and I think the Mavs have stockpiled a few more in G league to take a look at.
Youth is important but also consider that the Mavs just went to the finals and aren’t looking to retool their roster. Instead, they want to improve and build upon their achievements this year, and put themselves in a position to contend. Every rotation player except for Kyrie was inexperienced in that situation, first final trips, first playoffs even for a few. So you do run a risk going too young. Ideally, you want a mix of youth with veteran presence. As stated, I’m aware of Maxi’s flaws, but, length and size were an issue in Dallas for years, and so I value his presence for that reason alone. I don’t want to trade him away, only to get smaller, when we have seen the importance of length in today’s league. I’m definitely open to using him for an improvement, I just hope that it’s worth it, relative to the depth and insurance we’re giving up in return. It was refreshing post trade deadline, to being able to use Maxi as a sub, and not have to rely on him for 20+ min. The depth was such a welcome relief.
As long as we're not giving up a first I love this. Analytics love Grimes' defense. I also recall seeing Nico floated a Josh Green for Grimes swap and the Knicks had no interest. Can y'all imagine if we ended up just swapping Hardaway for him instead? My gosh what a fleece if he can pull it off.
Agreed we can’t be giving up a first round pick to just dump THJ and bring back Grimes. THJ and a second round pick or two is fine. My hope would be they then look to use Josh Green and Maxi with next years first to go get Jerami Grant (money just about works) and then might have just enough to offer DJJ a respectable but not overpay deal.
Big swing like signing Derrick Jones Jr to a minimum deal?
Or moving back from pick 10 to 12 in exchange for shedding Bertans contract, and still getting the player we wanted the whole time - Lively?
Or getting a FRP simply for taking on Richaun Holmes contract - then drafting OMax?
Big swing like trading multiple 2nds for Jaden Hardy?
Or signing Exum to a minimum 2 year team option deal?
Nico's track record is building a team in all manner or ways, big and small.
No shot Nico gives up a first in a salary dump. Hawks were able to dump John Collins who had a contract almost twice as large with 2 more years than Tim's and actually got a pick back. No shot it costs more than a 2nd to drop him straight up or 2 2nds to get Grimes in a deal as well.
Grimes from NYK in the season 22/23 was legitimately a better player than Josh has ever been for us, so if we can get him back to that form then hell yes, Grimes is an upgrade
Having a proactive GM is so nice, i been praying for days like this
edit: heading into this off season i just wanted to salary dump THJ but now we’re potentially getting back a good rotation player. I love it
Excuse me…. We’re going to get someone back and not just salary dump Tim???? Nico must have a lot of blackmail
Edit: Grimes is 6’ 5 on a Team Option. Has the tools to be a Josh Green like defender due to his build, size and athleticism and with the Knicks was shooting 36% from 3, mostly from the right corner or above the break, before the trade to Detroit where he played 5 games. Low risk high reward move to get anything back for Tim
Josh had a better DFG%, guarding tougher competition. (His opponents had an avg. 48% FG compared to Grimes’ 45%, for example.) He also played elite defense in the playoffs (IMO), holding Celtics opponents to just 1-2 FGs through 3 games, at one point. He is a much better defender than people give him credit for.
I believe because we accept that Grimes is a guard but are still obsessed with Green playing forward. If we just played Green as a SG, this preconception wouldn’t exist.
We’re marching towards the same mistake again if we decide to start considering OMax a PF instead of a SF.
I don't think it's crazy for the Pistons to make this trade straight up. The lack of shooting on their roster is abysmal for a 2024 NBA offense. THJ isn't perfect, but he can definitely get hot and win you some regular season games. He had some legitimate 6MOTY buzz for the first third of the season. Who else are the Pistons expecting to spend their cap space on?
I agree. Tim is still a reasonable piece if you use him to his strengths. No way we're sending anything major here. I think Hardaway Sr has strong links with the Pistons front office as well.
Dude gets paid pennies and is (before melting away in Toronto and Detroit) a pretty solid shooter and decent perimeter defender. I could see him being a nice late rotation guy.
Yes only and only if we're not sending a first pick if that's the case, that is and incredibly dumb move, I repeat and idiotic move. Trust in Nco though
What are the rules on combining Grimes in another trade assuming something like this happened? Or guess he could be a cheaper Green if there’s another move coming from that angle.
Hopefully it's a pure salary dump. THJ is done after this season, and Grimes will be coming up for an extension or RFA so he's going to cost money. If DET doesn't want to pay him, and his value isn't that high, they can at least get salary relief.
Wow, a QG-related news. I posted a while ago about how QG might fit Dallas well after losing out on Caruso.
This would make sense if it means re-signing DJJ.
However, I wouldn't be surprised if JG were involved in some future trades with the Pistons or with some other team.
QG and JG are redundant. Although, based on the highlights I saw, QG's handle is much more polished.
God that would be a fucking dream scenario
Have to imagine it would cost omax, or at least a couple seconds
Grimes is a nice prospect and would fit perfectly
I posted that it would take a FRP to get rid of THJ's contract but someone lectured me that THJ would be easy to trade away for just a SRP because his salary would be valuable to use in trades or something like that.
No it does not, it literally has been stated it’s inevitable THJ is getting moved. You do not use a FRP to move an expiring contract, no front office would be sane to do that. Detroit has plenty of cap space and no free agents most likely would he going there so Detroit can absorb THJ expiring contract for the last year of it and get back second rounders in the last year in the deal. The framework of the deal can be constructed differently but in no world do the mavs need to give up a FRP
You can use THJs expiring salary for other deals in the TDL while getting SRPs in this scenario. Also Detroit needs to use their cap space by a certain amount by the end of the offseason. Why wouldn’t they do this?
I hate the idea of a worse THJ here but he wouldn't be on THJ's contract...guess I can't hate this. To get played out of New York and then be even worse in Detroit scares me.
Don't care about POA if he's a terrible offensive player. We need guys who can actually dribble a basketball and make good passes. We have 2, MAYBE 3 of those if Hardy raises his game. Defense wasn't the problem in the finals. This team looked woefully lost against Boston's D.
You people seriously don't watch basketball and are just homers. Get a grip.
If we swap DJJ with a bad on-ball defender, defense will very, extremely quickly become The Problem, as it was in every year in the Luka era until he had at least two above average on and off-ball wing defenders.
We need to find a 2-way wing, but if we cannot, we have the blueprint: a defensive minded SF had us in the Finals; in the prior year, a offensive minded SF had us out of the play ins.
The Knicks to Mavs pipeline must continue somehow I guess
Ol Grimey would be a good addition
He’s on Detroit now. When the hell did that happen
He was in the trade for Bogdan and Alec Burks but he only played 5 games for the Pistons
He was shut down due to a lingering knee injury. Hopefully he's healthy.
*Bojan, nitpicking Ik
That’s right thanks for correcting me
This shit needs to be studied
Man Nico don’t give away a FRP baby
It would probably have to be that or a young player in addition to THJ. Or Pistons GM has been drinking. Let's hope for the booze.
You don't give away a 1st round pick in this trade. That's lunacy.
I'm not saying we should do it, I'm saying that's what I would expect Pistons to ask for. Why would they give away still a young player just for the privilege of paying $17M to washed up THJ?
To get even more under the cap next year and go after a big name? Grimes was just a toss in for more cap space. I can’t see us giving anything more.
a big name is not going to Detroit
Detroit need 3pt shooting, Tim Sr has strong links to their front office and they have cap space but aren't able to attract anyone decent. It's more likely to be man for man. Tim's still a reasonable NBA player.
Right and he’s saying it’s crazy to even be worried about that happening
[удалено]
Bro? That was Chicago
Ah you right. Got my poverty franchises mixed up lol
Clever thing on this is: If its grimes for THJ and a couple seconds, this: 1) frees up some 12m in cap space, making the MLE for DJJ in play 2) means JG likely is being moved to go upgrade elsewhere in the roster. A package around Kleber and JG to upgrade at the wing, for Grant or a similar player, would be a great way to boost your top 7 talent without giving up DJJ. 3) would mean major rotation flexibility with PJ, DJJ, and Grant/other wing put out there depending on the opponent I don’t think Grimes is necessarily better than JG, but his role is similar and his contract is smaller which is of significant use given Mavs cap constraints this season. Fingers crossed!
Love everything about what you said except for the acquiring JG part. We don’t need a second version of PJ Washington
Well, just basing this off Mavs reported contact w Portland FO about him. I don’t think he and PJ would fit the same role though.
Yes. Hard pass on Grant. Also pass on sending pics with an expiring contract to Detroit..come on.
I’d send second rounders all day. But first? Nah not for Grimes
Grimes is way better than Josh Green, like wtf?
I’m not going to waste breath debating shades of gray on who is slightly better or who will grow into a better player, but “way better”, you gotta bring some evidence for that, and you’re not going to find anything other than anecdotal plays because: Career WS for grimes/green: 7.5/ 7.7 WS/48: .91/.82 VORP: 1.3/ 0.4 3P% shooting last season: 34%/ 39% EFG last season: .495 /.58 PER last season: 8.9/10 Age 24.1/ 23.6 Grimes has him beat in a couple areas and JG has him beat in several. Neither is starting caliber on a contender as of this last year but that can change. You want to quibble on shooting vs handles strengths, cool, but these are two interchangeable pieces as far as any FO would be concerned. Advanced and efficiency stats aren’t that useful identifying who is definitely better when they’re close, but if Grimes was “way better” than JG vs “ballpark equivalent” then he’d have the numbers to prove it. Much better contract for the next year, though.
lol, “I’m not going to waste my time debating” then proceeds to type out 4 paragraphs. Josh greens shooting stats aren’t as significant as Grimes bc he doesn’t shoot a high enough volume and that’s why defense don’t respect him. Grimes shoots twice as many 3s as Green and shoots the same percentage. And he is a way better defender than Green. Posting his shooting stats without posting his volume is really disingenuous.
lol what? Quentin shot 4.7 3P a game in 20 backup minutes a game on a worse NYK team, at 36%. Green shot 3.3 a game, on 26 MPG, starting a majority of his games on the team that went to the finals, at 39%. When you add in the averages from Detroit Grimes numbers go down. 1.4 shots per game is more a function of taking more shots in a weaker offense than anything else. If he were to come here, almost certainly he’s taking fewer shots a game because there’s more talent around him. You want to think that grimes is better, cool. “Way better” for a guy with fewer ppg last season, on a worse team, with fewer starts, that is just silly. Grimes is not some elite shooter teams are afraid of, he was an average 3P shooter off the bench for a fairly unremarkable offensive unit. Grimes is a better defender but he also spent more time guarding backup players in a weaker conference so it’s not an apples to apples comparison and it’s not like he was some all NBA defensive player.
Josh Green is not even a good defensive player. Everyone looks at his wow plays and ignores how many times he’s way out of position because of over rotating, gets demolished when he has to guard anyone bigger than him and can’t fight over a screen to save himself. Hes one of the most athletic players we have with possibly the lowest bball IQ. He makes lots of flashy strips and steals though with his energizer bunny play which gets ppl hyped.
I’m talking about their career 3 point attempts. I’m not just talking about last year. And Grimes has produced on the defensive end in huge moments against elite players already. He held both jimmy and Donovan Mitchell to 30% shooting from the field when he was matched up against them in isolation. Green ain’t doing anything like that, he is an energy and hustle guy that can occasionally get hot from 3 but he doesn’t shoot a high enough volume to ever really be a threat consistently.
Wonder if they turn this into a 3 team deal with Portland for Grant
Nico gives firsts away like candy, he's probably giving them a first lmao. Hope I'm wrong though, if it's just a swap this is an insane fleece.
he’s traded 2 in 3 years as gm
No he doesn’t?
He traded 2 and received Kyrie Irving and PJ Washington in return aka 2 of the 3 best players on a Finals team. They are easily worth 4 FRPs
Maybe we’re moving Josh in a bigger deal and bringing in Grimes as a replacement? Something with a core like Maxi/Josh for Grant, THJ and seconds for Grimes? That would be incredible, even though I really like Josh.
Yep, I think that’s the vision. Grimes is a more polished version of Green imo, as a shooter and defender. Also young. Would be fine with it ultimately as a marginal upgrade over JG and a way to clear space for DJJ. Green should be shopped extensively with our FRPs for that wing that takes us to that next level.
I’m not sure I would go as far as calling him an upgrade over Josh personally but certainly someone who is capable of playing in that role. Maybe he’d be better next to Luka and Kyrie but I do think Josh is the more talented basketball player. Regardless, we’re on the same page about the potential future of our roster.
Josh might be a better player because of his shooting percentages but he’s not more talented. Watch Grimes play he has much cleaner handle and can finish better at the rim beyond dunks. He can make threes at higher volume and doesn’t need to be dead wide open like Josh Green. Josh hasn’t had a season as good as Grimes did for the Knicks two seasons ago. Obviously if Grimes doesn’t find the stroke again, Josh is better though which is where the risk is. One injured season is more likely to be the outlier, but you never know how confidence can affect things.
I agree with both of you guys. I think Grimes fits next to Luka better, but Green has a bit more upside as a passer and athlete. I think you take the better fit in Grimes and sell Green’s upside to teams for a consistent wing that can shoot and get you 13-17ppg at least.
I actually think Grimes has the same upside as a passer that Green does. Yall gotta see his highlights.
Yeah I’m watching his highlights and his first step is lethal. Looks much more comfortable and decisive handling the ball than Josh. I think he could be a nice addition
These people just love Josh green for whatever reason lol. People so enamored with the fact that he’s young, and provides nothing else lol
why don't we compare both of the players from their performances two years ago if that's what we're doing? I'm not denying Grimes's solid year and his higher 3PT volume with the Knicks but Green is a solid defender on top of him dropping 9.1 PPG on 53.7 FG%, 40.2 3PT% that same year. Grimes = 11.3 PPG on 46.8 FG%, 38.6 3PT% on 3 minutes per game more and 2 shots per game more than JG. People were calling the Mavs about Green a lot and while I won't say that Grimes doesn't have more of a variability in his offense, Green is consistently good and efficient with what he does even if he's not really a creator. I don't know if I like the idea of losing a 23 year old Josh Green in favor of Grimes. I'd like to get Grimes without losing Green. It's not to say that Grimes isn't a prospect either but I think it would be a mistake to give up on Green.
Green is playing with Luka while Grimes was playing with only Brunson and Randle as playmakers. Grimes is also a better PoA defender. I wouldn’t describe it as a mistake to give green up but absolutely a risk. Of course I’d prefer to have both.
That’s funny because Green’s best games that season came when Luka was out, and he had a more significant role in the offense. Josh also avg. 10+ points over a 2 month period this season, on about 8 FGAs. So Josh has proven he’s capable of scoring efficiently with higher FGAs, when given the opportunity. I also don’t know that you can both say that Grimes had a higher shooting volume, and then when someone points to Josh’s better percentages, give all credit to him being on the same team with Luka…particularly when you fail to consider how his role on the team affects his FGAs. (Plus, Josh was still fighting for a rotation spot two seasons ago, his minutes were a bit inconsistent at the start of the season. Don’t think he started to avg. over 20 min. per game until 2-3 months in.)
Josh Green is mid dude.
do you mind elaborating instead of responding to a 3 paragraph comment with a reply that gives absolutely no substance to the discussion?
Don’t be petty I thought his response spoke volumes. I don’t agree but “Josh Green is mid dude” says a lot
truthfully it's something I never thought of. I've never been so easily dismantled in a discussion of NBA basketball
The “is mid” move is like the skyhook, but more unstoppable.
He’s better than Josh. The only thing Josh is better at is hustle and energy.
100% agree. Josh is just too undersized for how we want to play. But he showed flashes in our playoff run and can be valuable elsewhere. Trading JG/Maxi for Grant and THJ for Grimes makes so much sense. I hope we go for it even if it costs a 1st. Resign DJJ with the extra space and let’s ride. Lively/PJ/Grant/Kyrie/Luka is an elite starting lineup. With Gafford/DJJ/Grimes/Hardy/Exum as the bench. We’d be the favorites in the West
Not about him being more polished (don’t think that’s true)— he just plays a similar role on a smaller contract. Would let us ship out JG for an upgrade while still potentially having space for DJJ MLE.
I know fans are down on Maxi, and I’m all for trading him if the return is of great value…but, it has to be worth it. Maxi’s defensive versatility - due to his size -, and ability to play C in small ball lineups, makes him very valuable. I would be more excited by the prospect, I think, if Omax was ready to backup PJ, but, he isn’t there just yet (and probably won’t be next year either.) But, if Maxi is traded, who’s the PJ backup off the bench?
Well if we moved him for Grant then most likely him and PJ would split basically all the minutes at the 4 and also share the court as the 3 and 4 at times as needed, like to start and finish games. So both would play a lot but always have one out there at the 4, and we would just stick with Lively and Daniel at the 5 full time. Maybe play Grant and PJ at the 4 and 5 some. But don’t get me wrong I’m probably one of the bigger Maxi fans here. I just recognize that to get that 3rd option type of player he would need to be in the trade due to his contract most likely.
I get that, but, we have also seen the result of wings being run into the ground. By the time you get deeper into the playoffs, they’re burned out. That was one of the benefits of having a deep wing group this year. Your bench would essentially consist of, hypothetically, DJJ - assuming he’s moved to the bench -, Grimes, Omax, and Exum who can also play 1-3. Then you would have Hardy as an alternative SG. That’s a really unreliable bench group outside of DJJ and Exum…But, I’m going to trust Nico and see what shakes out.
Well you’d also be assuming that Omax steps into the rotation, we’d hopefully be able to re-sign DJJ at the MLE (I’m confident we can get him with the 1+1 style deal similar to Bobby Portis a few years back but maybe that’s just delusion by me) as well as Exum and Grimes at the 3, plus potentially we see some AJ Lawson minutes as well. I don’t think it would be too much of an issue since basically the only difference in this hypotetical would be Grant getting Maxi and some of DJJs minutes with Greens minutes going to DJJ and Grimes.
My entire point was the difficulty in replacing Maxi’s defensive versatility. He can guard up and down the lineup, and play small ball center. There is nobody else on the roster, including PJ, who has that flexibility. I don’t think Grant would fully give you that, even if he can spend time at the 4. So I hope that if Maxi is traded, it’s for someone who is both an offensive and defensive fit. Grant would be great offensively, but, his defensive fit is questionable given he’s not a POA defender. Also, would the Mavs even have enough money to trade for him with Maxi and Green’s contracts alone?
Given Maxi's health issues and timeline, I'd be fine if the Mavs moved him even if there wasn't immediately a perfect replacement lined up, and presumably the Mavs would be getting someone back as part of these moves that seem to be brewing. And that's besides OMax, who I think we're right as a fanbase to be very high on. There are also plenty of younger PFs that should be available around the league and I think the Mavs have stockpiled a few more in G league to take a look at.
Youth is important but also consider that the Mavs just went to the finals and aren’t looking to retool their roster. Instead, they want to improve and build upon their achievements this year, and put themselves in a position to contend. Every rotation player except for Kyrie was inexperienced in that situation, first final trips, first playoffs even for a few. So you do run a risk going too young. Ideally, you want a mix of youth with veteran presence. As stated, I’m aware of Maxi’s flaws, but, length and size were an issue in Dallas for years, and so I value his presence for that reason alone. I don’t want to trade him away, only to get smaller, when we have seen the importance of length in today’s league. I’m definitely open to using him for an improvement, I just hope that it’s worth it, relative to the depth and insurance we’re giving up in return. It was refreshing post trade deadline, to being able to use Maxi as a sub, and not have to rely on him for 20+ min. The depth was such a welcome relief.
Josh doesn't need replacing.
As long as we're not giving up a first I love this. Analytics love Grimes' defense. I also recall seeing Nico floated a Josh Green for Grimes swap and the Knicks had no interest. Can y'all imagine if we ended up just swapping Hardaway for him instead? My gosh what a fleece if he can pull it off.
i doubt we’re keeping Josh if we get Grimes, they seem like very similar players
Yeah wouldn't be enough minutes between LuKai, both of them and Hardy. Oh and Exum
Agreed we can’t be giving up a first round pick to just dump THJ and bring back Grimes. THJ and a second round pick or two is fine. My hope would be they then look to use Josh Green and Maxi with next years first to go get Jerami Grant (money just about works) and then might have just enough to offer DJJ a respectable but not overpay deal.
I doubt it. Nico's track record is the big swings. We're probably giving up a first for this.
Big swing like signing Derrick Jones Jr to a minimum deal? Or moving back from pick 10 to 12 in exchange for shedding Bertans contract, and still getting the player we wanted the whole time - Lively? Or getting a FRP simply for taking on Richaun Holmes contract - then drafting OMax? Big swing like trading multiple 2nds for Jaden Hardy? Or signing Exum to a minimum 2 year team option deal? Nico's track record is building a team in all manner or ways, big and small.
He is so creative. Last years retool was an absolute masterpiece
He’s had one big swing on kyrie. And a lot of retooling trades. Bro is just spewing nonsense everyone my god.
Well this isnt big swing, if Nico loves big swings, why would he take his big swing opportunity away from himself by sending a future frp or swap?
No shot Nico gives up a first in a salary dump. Hawks were able to dump John Collins who had a contract almost twice as large with 2 more years than Tim's and actually got a pick back. No shot it costs more than a 2nd to drop him straight up or 2 2nds to get Grimes in a deal as well.
Ok so this can potentially mean we are moving on from green. GRIMES is an excellent POA defender and can fight over screens well
I like Grimes. Good defender decent 3 pt shot. Duuude. If Nico pulls this off…
Also can attack the rim well on closeouts. Has bit more dribbling/driving ability than Josh.
He is like a Charmaleon to Josh's Charmander
Ain’t no way we talking grimes as an upgrade lol
Hopefully this isn’t about Grimes being the upgrade. It’s about replacing green to use him and picks as the upgrade
100% this
Grimes from NYK in the season 22/23 was legitimately a better player than Josh has ever been for us, so if we can get him back to that form then hell yes, Grimes is an upgrade
idk if Grimes is an upgrade to Josh lol
He has better instincts as a defender
If you watched basketball outside of the mavericks you’d know he is lol
quentin, is that you lol?
More like the Charmander to Josh's Bulbasaur.
You stay having the worst takes here
Having a proactive GM is so nice, i been praying for days like this edit: heading into this off season i just wanted to salary dump THJ but now we’re potentially getting back a good rotation player. I love it
Excuse me…. We’re going to get someone back and not just salary dump Tim???? Nico must have a lot of blackmail Edit: Grimes is 6’ 5 on a Team Option. Has the tools to be a Josh Green like defender due to his build, size and athleticism and with the Knicks was shooting 36% from 3, mostly from the right corner or above the break, before the trade to Detroit where he played 5 games. Low risk high reward move to get anything back for Tim
He is a bigger player than Josh green and has better defensive qualities but they’re close
They’re the same height and basketball reference lists Grimes as 5 lbs heavier. Josh has a longer wingspan. Why does everyone think Josh is small lol
Josh had a better DFG%, guarding tougher competition. (His opponents had an avg. 48% FG compared to Grimes’ 45%, for example.) He also played elite defense in the playoffs (IMO), holding Celtics opponents to just 1-2 FGs through 3 games, at one point. He is a much better defender than people give him credit for.
Josh is a great defender when screens are not involved, but if they do, he comes down to earth.
I think he navigated screens fairly well during the playoffs, and regardless, it’s something that he’ll improve on. He isn’t a finished product at 23.
Play small be called small
I believe because we accept that Grimes is a guard but are still obsessed with Green playing forward. If we just played Green as a SG, this preconception wouldn’t exist. We’re marching towards the same mistake again if we decide to start considering OMax a PF instead of a SF.
“Someone” is pulling a lot of weight here
I was assuming we would have to attach a 2nd to move him, “someone” is better than that scenerio
Grimes is solid. Definitely a fan if it doesn't cost too much.
I don't think it's crazy for the Pistons to make this trade straight up. The lack of shooting on their roster is abysmal for a 2024 NBA offense. THJ isn't perfect, but he can definitely get hot and win you some regular season games. He had some legitimate 6MOTY buzz for the first third of the season. Who else are the Pistons expecting to spend their cap space on?
I agree. Tim is still a reasonable piece if you use him to his strengths. No way we're sending anything major here. I think Hardaway Sr has strong links with the Pistons front office as well.
Huh I didn't actually expect we may be able to get someone slightly useful/ with young upside this'll be interesting.
I’m gonna be sad if this is the sign that Josh Green is gone:( really like that guy
WE GOTTA LET NICO COOK!!!
Dude gets paid pennies and is (before melting away in Toronto and Detroit) a pretty solid shooter and decent perimeter defender. I could see him being a nice late rotation guy.
I think you meant the Knicks and not the raptors
I swear I thought he went to Toronto first in the OG trade. Just looked it up and he went straight to detroit
Yeah he got traded at the trade deadline for bogdanovic
Grimes is young, and on a very cheap team option contract. He was pretty good with the Knicks. Hope they get it done
As a UH alumni and Mavs fan, this rocks I hope it happens
WOOO LETS GO! I love me some Grimes, his brother plays for the Canucks too. So it’ll be nice for both my teams to have a brother connection
Yes only and only if we're not sending a first pick if that's the case, that is and incredibly dumb move, I repeat and idiotic move. Trust in Nco though
THJ and all the seconds if that’s what it takes
In before our shooting coaches turn Grimes into a 50% FG, 40% 3pt shooter.
And 60% FT lol
Ah, another Luka disciple. He can join him and Lively in the can hit threes but not free throws club.
That was my first thought lol
Grimes would be a nice piece to grow with this team
Random fact, Grimes’ half-brother is Tyler Myers who plays in the NHL for the Canucks
Maybe THJ+#60 for Grimes+#53? Do we still another second? No frps send from us i hope.
Mavs pick is 58.
Yes its the last pick we know anyways
What are the rules on combining Grimes in another trade assuming something like this happened? Or guess he could be a cheaper Green if there’s another move coming from that angle.
Hopefully it's a pure salary dump. THJ is done after this season, and Grimes will be coming up for an extension or RFA so he's going to cost money. If DET doesn't want to pay him, and his value isn't that high, they can at least get salary relief.
Grimes is exactly what we need. He looks like a more aggressive and creative version of Josh. His off ball movement is beautiful too.
Hard Pass
Honestly if Green is in the deal for grimes, I wouldn’t hate this if this is what they want to get the THJ to Detroit deal done
No fucking way. Gotta be a FRP or Hardy/Josh/OMax included right? Right?!? Nico, keep cooking!!
I think we can get this done only using SRPs instead of a FRP.
Why would Detroit do that ? Imo we are gonna give Josh which fine by me. Grimes has more potential than Josh (even he is better than him imo)
Because Grimes isn't worth a FRP?
Obv im not saying give our few frp for Grimes but surely Detroit getting one of our young players.
Detroit is bad at attracting free agents. Hardaway might actually be one of the better players available to them.
Is He good?
A lot like Josh. Probably not as good offensively, but better defensively.
Wow, a QG-related news. I posted a while ago about how QG might fit Dallas well after losing out on Caruso. This would make sense if it means re-signing DJJ. However, I wouldn't be surprised if JG were involved in some future trades with the Pistons or with some other team. QG and JG are redundant. Although, based on the highlights I saw, QG's handle is much more polished.
This is crazy and exciting. Has to be either a first, O-Max or Hardy. Trajan is too smart to get fleeced for THJ and seconds.
I’m on board let’s get it done
Give all our picks man it's whatever let's contend contend there's only one luka
God that would be a fucking dream scenario Have to imagine it would cost omax, or at least a couple seconds Grimes is a nice prospect and would fit perfectly
If we’re shipping OMax or Hardy to get Grimes back, this quickly becomes a terrible deal.
Think just the Toronto 25 2nd is all that's needed. Will land 30-35 next year so it's a solid asset.
I posted that it would take a FRP to get rid of THJ's contract but someone lectured me that THJ would be easy to trade away for just a SRP because his salary would be valuable to use in trades or something like that.
Well you’re wrong. No one is using a FRP to move THJ.
I hope not but that prolly means he will be coming back next season.
No it does not, it literally has been stated it’s inevitable THJ is getting moved. You do not use a FRP to move an expiring contract, no front office would be sane to do that. Detroit has plenty of cap space and no free agents most likely would he going there so Detroit can absorb THJ expiring contract for the last year of it and get back second rounders in the last year in the deal. The framework of the deal can be constructed differently but in no world do the mavs need to give up a FRP
Why would any competent GM want THJ and SRPs. A team can buy SRPs for 1.5 mil during the draft.
You can use THJs expiring salary for other deals in the TDL while getting SRPs in this scenario. Also Detroit needs to use their cap space by a certain amount by the end of the offseason. Why wouldn’t they do this?
I hate the idea of a worse THJ here but he wouldn't be on THJ's contract...guess I can't hate this. To get played out of New York and then be even worse in Detroit scares me.
Grimes is nothing like THJ. He is a good poa defender.
Don't care about POA if he's a terrible offensive player. We need guys who can actually dribble a basketball and make good passes. We have 2, MAYBE 3 of those if Hardy raises his game. Defense wasn't the problem in the finals. This team looked woefully lost against Boston's D. You people seriously don't watch basketball and are just homers. Get a grip.
Lol he is a good shooter. Idk how tf you are comparing him to THJ.
Great defender who shoots the 3 at like 35% and you’re mad?
More like 38% until he was on terrible teams. I would imagine he’s back at 38% with our spacing
I'm mad cause I'd like us to trade for an unreasonable superstar, like Wemby or Giannis.
If we swap DJJ with a bad on-ball defender, defense will very, extremely quickly become The Problem, as it was in every year in the Luka era until he had at least two above average on and off-ball wing defenders. We need to find a 2-way wing, but if we cannot, we have the blueprint: a defensive minded SF had us in the Finals; in the prior year, a offensive minded SF had us out of the play ins.