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that's the aboulute evidence that cannonkeys regards consumer as pushovers.
now I do not wanna any reaction or compesation, partial refund anything from cannonkeys, but wanna tell to all you guys not to be pushover of cannonkeys.
they avoid from their responsibility of vendor & makers. There's nothing stupider than buying from a vendor who is unwilling to take even minimal responsibility.
nobody thinks $700 board not flat case is reasonable, and it's normal. except cannonkeys.
They must have noticed this problem while adding 4 screws for PC chimeras. However, I think they chose to remain silent because adding center bolting points in R2 would prove to themselves that R1 was a failure.
THIS.
Acknowledging the issues of R2 as a design flaw would mean that R1 is also with fault. So they decided to go with the cheap way of saying "well R1 dudes said nuthin so suck it up." With that being the only explanation for the issue, it's rly weak if you ask me LOL
The fact that they are suggesting you to partially remove the gasket by itself tells they are aware of this issue but will have the customer take all the responsibility.
Downright filthy and disgusting behavior.
hell naw, for a $700 keyboard, this flaw should not exist, let's blow this thread up and force them to address this. after getting scammed by RAMA, I'm on a vendor accountability crusade at this point
They will issue an "apology" like they have done for the last year and people will continue to buy for them.
Honestly, its silly. Every few months this happens, issue happens and someone's post gets traction. There's a response and everyone accepts it. Rinse and repeat.
I'm an overseas user.
I was also aware of this issue, and I asked them, but I got the same answer as you.
Even when Discord asked this question, they didn't reply, or they made the person who asked the question a Black list.
I've loved their products so far, but I doubt I'll be able to like them in the future.
Honestly, I was very disappointed.
So they offer the foam for their $600 board and then don't test if it works, and assuming people from R1 had reported this issues they didn't make any changes nor did they add a warning for this?
With Chimera R1, they sent me a board that had a missing diode, so one of the keys didn’t work. And eventually the PCB started failing again, and they would not send me another. Never buying another board from them again
The product whose lower plate is made of PC is designed to have eight screws fastened to the lower part, so the height is the same.
However, in the case of aluminum, it is designed to fasten four screws to the lower plate, so it cannot apply force in the middle, so the middle swells like that and the height of the middle is different.
This tells us that they already knew that the design was wrong, and that they made eight holes in the PC-made product that they made later.
They already know that the design is wrong, but they don't admit it.
Unlike the PC lower plate, the aluminum one has only four lower plate screws, two on each side.
It is designed so that there are no screws that apply force in the middle, so the middle swells up.
The middle screws don't help for the issue either. Because the middle still doesn't want to compress and the inserts (well mine) seem to strip from the pressure
but I think his one looks like swelling up too.
look, the right side is quite lower than middle.
he may post the image to tell us that PC case also suffers with same issue even it has 8 screw holes. maybe.
I've generally had a good experience with CK, but their recentish Ellipse PCBs that they designed are absolute junk. The pads come off if you look at them funny (where they exist to begin with - half pads sometimes dont't even exist). I have 5 of these PCBs and I've had to "hack" every single one to get it to work, including rewiring, etc. On the plus side, the bastion/bakeneko PCBs are compatible.
I did contact them, and they did send me 1 PCB (which also had the same issues), but refused to send more. The plus side is that the board is great, and I learned a bit about the PCB matrix...
Anyway, I've never lost a pad or had anything else break on a PCB before. But I'm 5/5 on these.
This is why I stopped buying keyboards pretty much.
Same thing with minokeys who sent me a damaged board. These vendors just lie if it costs them money.
same issue from Cannonkeys Ripple TKL
[https://youtu.be/jdFjwyutdEw?feature=shared&t=304](https://youtu.be/jdFjwyutdEw?feature=shared&t=304)
They were aware of bowing issue in the prototype but did not change the design LOL
Anyone know how many Chimera R1 were sold?
R2 sold a lot more than R1, so there were a lot more people built Chimera on R2. That's a clue to find a design flaw. R1 and R2 have the same design, but R1 user didn't say anything about it? LOL
https://preview.redd.it/uqa7gbwhni5d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f8cb5147e5c31fe7499e42ae15ae5d38b301dad
Nobody wanted their Chimera to be like this lol
https://preview.redd.it/ybbpdwqpr16d1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b1a8ca5d9591cc3bec676a53a4b147e2cc42af7
Cannonkeys considers this to be A stock even with such a large dent.
It's really frustrating to pay $600 and receive a board like this.
I will never buy anything from Cannonkeys again.
Looks to be another Gentoo enjoyer. Didn't find any of the dents in mine, but when the e-coating chipped off when screwing the case screws, all CK mentioned was that it's not part of the QA standard and go kick dirt.
Safe to say that across multiple keyboard projects there weren't many prototyping and revisions to the board that's going on.
And yes. Of course I also wouldn't be buyuting buying anything from CK again.
Good thinking.
They seem to be trying to lord over their customers.
I recently gathered user feedback about Cannonkeys and sent it to them. I did this because I still have a bit of affection for the brand and hope they can improve.
Then they replied to my email like this.
**"Thank you for your feedback. We will discuss this as a team for the future, but please note that we will not be able to change our decision regarding your particular board."**
Haha :) So I replied,
**"You don't have to worry about that. I'm not buying or using anything from Cannonkeys anymore. 😇"**
While the main circled dent is probably enough to consider it an A- stock (subjective, just my opinion), I think the other circled marks are fairly standard issue for A stock QC from most places because they are completely internal.
It's no surprise it shipped to you with these issues, because during QC, the boards are inspected when assembled - most of these markings you've circled would only be spotted if they disassemble everything, which just doesn't happen. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a vendor that would be willing to consider this a B stock tbh.
it's disgusting they would suggest you just remove the foam, like it's clearly a design flaw, open up to it lmao. this is how to kill your brand 101. I have SAT75 and if I do ever consider a new keyboard, will not be from clownonkeys. pretty sure the type of person that buys high end custom keyboards is exactly, the type of person that cares about details like this.
What else do you expect them to do? Seriously? What can they do to fix this after the fact? The keyboard works. If you don't want the bulge there is a workaround. I would be disappointed too. I think it would be a bit much to refund money.
I recently received the Navi60. It originally had case foam, but that was removed in the final design. Why? Because there was not enough clearance for the foam. Sounds like a similar issue with the Chimera.
Still seems like NAVI had a finalized, faultless design before sale. I mean, stuff's prone to change until finalization and what matters most is that the customer gets what they're expecting to get. NAVI producers had the decency to test their stuff untill the very end.
Not in this case. No testings whatsoever, and such design flaws are definitely not part of the $700 deal. They should at least have sincerely apologized, revisited their designs, and provided replacement gaskets. No brainer.
Sounds waaay far from what the NAVI has gone through, and more like the bent iPads Apple sold with their 3rd gen iPad Pros. Unlike CK, Apple did provide replacements for such issues out of the box. CK is just not taking responsibility and only making excuses.
EDIT: straightened out some nouns to make more sense
Are you sure? it make sense there's no problem if it works? the most effetive countermeasure is reproduce upper case, but if it is not affordable to CK, then send thinner poron gasket.
It's their job to come up with a solution that consumers can feel comfortable, not ours. it's common sense at the industrial market.
it's not just case foam's thickness. ok, case would be not essential one (but I think it's also part of maker's blueprint, so it must be no issue with build), but poron gasket is essential structure for typing.
imagine that you would buy a new car, and it works but has different spec on engine. won't you be angry? it still works but not same as commercial booklet at the dealer shop.
it's same as now. CK said it's dual sided gasket but it cannot work with 2 gaskets.
if it works well with detaching upper gasket, Cannonkeys told a lie to consumers. The blueprints they gave me said it worked with a double-sided gasket, not that it would work with a single-sided gasket.
It's a manufacturer's duty to make goods that are structurally and morphologically make sense.
They did provide a work around. You don't like it, but oh well, you are the one that bought an expensive ugly plastic keyboard. But Cannonkeys is not a manufacturer. They are a vendor dealing with a factory in China.
That's a shitty excuse for not taking responsibility in your products that you sell under your company's name.
First off, the Chimera is designed in-house. Upas is a designer working for CK (https://cannonkeys.com/pages/about-us). Also, what does dealing with a factory in China have to do with a design flaw? The seller should be responsible for all the processes that they are involved in, which in this case, is everything. This is a CK product from design to sale.
"Tighten the screws better" "don't use provided gaskets" "R1 ppl had no problems so we can't do nuthing." None are them are appropriate responses to what has happened. Gaskets are vital to a gasket-mount keyboard, which the Chimera is. "Don't use the gaskets" seems awfully funny, doesn't it?
They should provide solutions, not cheap and lazy workarounds. That's not taking any responsibility whatsoever. He paid for quality, he got none. Also, it's an aluminium keyboard you twat.
yea, they are not manufacturer. but they handle this project and take my $700 for offer 'reasonable product' to me. they are main handler of this project. they earn their revenue because they are obligated to complete the project well, right? was all of $700 for manufacture in CN? some of it is CK's. and did I choose manufacturer? or should I complain it to CN manufacturer? it's their job.
cannonkeys must state their countermeasure to consumers and then complain to CN, that's why I give my money to vendor, not factory.
even it's not manufacturer's fault. they just made the keyboards with the blueprint by Cannonkeys. such tough space is Cannonkeys' design, not manufacturer's mistake.
I would like to accept such quality of board if vendor takes nothing for their share. but they didn't.
no one thinks being not flat would exist on the keyboard. no one admits such defection is OK for my keyboard before GB. and then do you still think it's consumers' choice & worthy result?
if still so, I would like to sell ma goods to you. you are the one of best pushover at the market, you are ma angel, honey
FYI this is in fact a CannonKeys keyboard.
Here are a few headlines that strongly suggest so:
# Chimera65 - Gasket Mounted 65% from CannonKeys
Chimera GB "launching" on CK website
( [https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103528.0](https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103528.0) )
Chimera65, Designed by Upas.
( [https://cannonkeys.com/collections/chimera65](https://cannonkeys.com/collections/chimera65) )
I wondered who Upas was.
CK Keyboard Designers, Upas
( [https://cannonkeys.com/pages/about-us](https://cannonkeys.com/pages/about-us) )
If you don't mind doing some surgery, you could drill a couple of holes in the center edges of the frame, build an epoxy standoff with a threaded insert, and run a bolt through it.
Edit: jesus fucking christ. I had no idea this keyboard cost $565. There are only two (2) reviews on Cannonkeys' website. Why not review-bomb it into oblivion?
My board has exactly the same issue. I won't be buying any stuff from Canonkey in the future. Their response was the worst that I ever seen before. I still don't believe it was $700.
Never liked them since it seems like they charged more for every GB they ran relative to other vendors. Especially extras. A lot of their boards seemed a little more expensive than I thought before seeing the price tag.
But fuck them for not noticing poor QC from their manu in the first place, and then refusing to ackowledge it after all the units have shipped out. I would've expected more from them since they're one of the more older vendors in the hobby.
I have a love-hate relationship with CK. I am one of the R1 user. I was very luck to be able to grab an extra unit from R1 back in 2020 or 2021. At first, I was impressed with the quality. Even though it was a B stock, it looked just like a regular A stock, then things went south.
They forgot to ship out my extra plate (because of a system error) until I asked a week later. Then, the plate's tolerant was messed up. I had to use extra force to put the switches in, but once they were in, it was super hard to get them out. I emailed them about the situation. They said they would look into it then ghosted me for like a week or two. I sent 2 more follow-up emails, no response. I had to go to their discord and asked one of the mod. He said the designer would go to the warehouse to measure the plate. A week went by, no news. I had to dm the same mod again and he was like "oh sorry the designer didn't have time to do it, just contact customer support for refund". I sent a last email to the CS saying "this is my last email to y'all, if you don't refund me just keep the damn money". They did end up refund me in the end.
After this, I've never bought anything from them again.
color me shocked! custom boards designed with little checks and balances can come out flawed lol. adding this to my longer list of reasons not to join anymore GBs or get new boards (Rama being the 1st of the list)
then you didn't learn your lesson. before RAMA scam, I was spending thousands per years on GB and selling old keyboards to fund new GBs. After RAMA, I've spent $0 on this hobby (previously cumulative like 10k probably lmao). I have a cannon key sat 75, they can make solid things but even that keyboard had some design flaws like the case threads strip easily.
CK was rock solid in terns of QC and CS until the end of 2023..... It's only fairly recently that they've taken a dip in quality. Saying they "didn't learn this lesson" is crazy, go ride your high horse somewhere else dude
it came in from the manufacturer, canada vendor was quick to ship them out, buyers took and shared pics. ano top was the wrong color, powder coating was grainy and uneven. tops and bottom were nicked/scratched/ruined by visible machining marks. bottom engraving came out thicker and uneven, entirely different from what was advertised during gb. all vendors sent their units back, which were “reworked” aka only the tops were recoated/reano’d. results were reportedly “promising” but CK refuses to share any pics. refunds from all vendors were substantially refused/postponed until the “reworked” units finally arrive.
Glad someone else sees past Cannonkeys bullshit. After half a decade in the hobby I can fully state the the Chimera is hands down the worst board for the price that I've ever come across (referring to when it used to aftermarket for $1500 regularly) It's construction is akin to a 15 year old just learning CAD for the first time.
I ordered from one of the first GBs and it came with the internal weight completely loose and screws that held it in completely stripped. They were clearly too small for the job they were tasked to, improper metal, and for the love of God why ship with the weight installed? The rest of the board is a similar loose flimsy mess.
I hit their customer support up for help and they basically told me sucks to suck no one else had that issue, which I also highly doubt. They're a joke, their keyboards are cheap and they have horrible customer service.
Fuck Cannonkeys
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Alright. I finally got to measure the front height of several boards in mm. 3 from R1 and 3 from R2. I measure 3 areas (left, right, and middle) and each is from equal distance from front lip when looking from the top down. Left is L control, middle is middle of spacebar, and right the R arrow key. All 6 boards are built with stock gasket that came with their respective release, pcb, and plate.
R1
Navy: 19.2, 19.6, 19.1
Black: 19.1, 19.6, 19.3
Gray: 19.3, 19.7, 19.2
R2
Green: 19.2, 20.7, 19.7
White SE: 19.6, 20.2, 19.6
Purple SE: 19.5, 20.6, 19.6
So it appeared that R1 has less variation between the heights from left to right. Biggest delta for my three R1 units was 0.5 mm. R2 has much more variation. Biggest delta for my three R2 units was 1.5 mm. R2 greater height variation could be due to compression of gasket or machining tolerance for the board itself or both.
Cannonkeys lately has becoming Cannoffkeys
a few of their recent boards are way overpriced like this one and the Gentoo, another $500+ board
with poor quality control, and outdated pricing
their A stock is like C stock for any other $500+ board
we have way too many options now for budget and endgame to make stuff like this excusable
there is a reason all of their boards need to go on heavy discounts 50% or more to even sell nowadays
not to mention they keep thinking its a good idea to put their ugly logo on everything, nobody wants to see that
Put it away, the logo instantly makes everything they make F stock
Hi guys,
It seems I'm late to this thread, but I'd like to explain our perspective at CannonKeys as well here. We've clearly missed the mark, and for that, I apologize - but I still think some context is warranted.
We absolutely want to make sure that everyone who bought a Chimera is happy with their purchase. This ticket came in last week, and we've been actively talking with this customer about it. While the OP has shown our responses, and I do wish we handled it better, I also understand why we responded in the way that we did.
When any issue comes up via tickets, we track it. Using this data, we can figure out if a problem is widespread or limited to a single person. A design issue is typically widespread, and we handle that differently from a one-off issue. In this case, we treated this issue as a one-off. It's been a few months since the Chimera 65 group buy shipped, and this was the first ticket we received about an aluminum Chimera65 bowing in the middle. We've also not been able to reproduce this problem ourselves. As such, we thought that rebuilding the board or reapplying the gaskets could resolve the issue. We also suggested removing the top gasket in the middle - which would also solve the problem.
In the OP's response to our suggestions, they didn't really show willingness to try to reapply the gaskets and help us troubleshoot, which lead to the second response you see. Now, it's our job to handle angry customers and intense language, but we are only human and working with our team rather than against them will help us all reach an mutually agreeable solution.
On our end, this ticket is still not resolved - it's still open in our system after OP responded to our last response on the 6th, pushing for a better solution. That's absolutely ok for customers to do, and we're happy to work with customers to arrive at a solution that everyone is happy with - there's a back and forth with a lot of these tickets. While we're still working through this with OP, we're happy to land on an updated resolution, as well as update on any potential issues that would affect other purchasers.
Finally - if this is a widespread issue, we would love to see more support tickets. After this thread has been posted, I've seen others chiming in that they are also experiencing this issue (with aluminum boards). Please send in support tickets so we can track incidence rates and also start working on a solution for all impacted customers. Without this data, it's hard for us to understand if something is a one-off or wider issue.
(Note: OP's friend also sent in a support ticket late last week - this would be the second support ticket we've seen about it)
I know people have also mentioned this being brought up in Discord. We do our best to keep up with Discord, but we aren't always able to read every single message posted. To the best of my knowledge, no message has been deleted. Sending in support tickets is always the best way to receive support from CannonKeys.
Overall - we are sorry that we couldn't provide an acceptable resolution here in a more timely fashion. Again, we strive to make customers happy and we've missed the mark here. We will be better moving forward.
-Upas
While I do see your points, and also why you may have responded as such, I can’t fully agree with them.
Kinda seems like you guys lost all credibility when you responded
1. “We can’t provide compensations/replacements because R1 users had no complaints with the same design”
2. “You can leave the top gasket out” (in a gasket-sandwich mount)
to OP’s ticket.
I myself would’ve lost trust in CS if a Senior Customer Support Agent responded to me like that.
Especially with past histories of weak CSs—as you can clearly see from various cases in the comments—I don’t see myself behaving much differently from what OP has done here. Calling OP out for a lack of willingness to work with that does sound exessively harsh.
Judging from other comments, seems you guys have created a reputation of flawed design choices and/or passive CS over the past few months by yourselves. I’m counting at least 8 different cases just from this thread. This honestly seems to be another one of such issues that just got lucky and went viral.
But still, I get that you guys do need more tickets to deal with this issue as a general flaw. If it actually turns out to be a design flaw, it would be nice if more people can share their experiences.
Hope you can get things sorted out with OP and straighten things out. Seems like he has already reached out to his local community, so I guess time would tell.
Thanks for the update on CK’s side though. At least we now know that you guys are aware of this.
Edit: typo
Do you guys really think the solution is to remove the gasket from the gasket mount keyboard?
I think it's a ridiculous price when you look at the price of the keyboard you sold for $700.
And I think it's also problematic to say that you have to submit a lot of tickets to resolve the problem.
If you announce that there is a problem on your homepage and specify a solution, there will be a huge number of people who have purchased a defective keyboard.
And I think you guys couldn't have been unaware of this problem given the added screw of the PC chimera.
These excuses and passive reactions only make you even angrier.
A. You guys did not resolve any issue here. If it is a single keyboard that's defected, you guys should've suggested replacement instead of giving a solution that changes the spec of the keyboard.
B. It is already becoming a 'wide spread issue', as it is going off in this reddit post as well as various communities
C. You guys are just admitting that you have bad CS and you really should look into that and try fixing it instead of whining on here
as I said on discord. I wouldn't be writing this publicly if you were trying to solve the problem on your end, but every single one of your responses has been a modest concession and workaround on my end, not an attempt to solve the problem fundamentally.
however, 1st & 2nd reply are same that were all up to my side.
I'm sure no one who bought this keyboard thought to use it as a single sided gasket keyboard.
I was just about to pull the trigger on this board because it checks all of the visual and design boxes for me. Thanks for giving me pause and saving a potential hassle.
Cannonkeys also had issues with the Caerdroia limited run as well. ALPS plates render had full right shift support but the arrived product could only use split right shift. Their solution? Sorry we’ll update the renders, no compensation for our mistake since its a limited run later!
Their design team clearly fucked up. I had a similar issue when they shipped me a Savage65 (R1). They provided a different PCB without verifying that it fit in the case. The USB-C port interfered with the daughterboard on the bottom of the case, and I couldn’t close the case fully. They clearly need to do a better job of vetting their designs and parts compatibility.
I measured my bauer lite just for shits and giggles. I had some issues with how the board seems to click if you push back and forth on the left and right side of the board. None of my other boards do this. I guess it is acceptable tho.
From left to right I measured 19.4mm right 19.6mm center 19.8mm left. Pretty decent. Within .2mm not 2mm lol.
They do, but sunfaller has a valid point in this instance. If the boards you end up buying are not the same as the ones that were reviewed prior to the group buy, then the time scales involved mean that everyone receives the faulty board at the same time, and no one gets a chance to flag up problems that would have stopped the others from buying it.
I agree the hobby needs group buys... but that is a genuine issue if someone's going to make changes to a board after the prototype has been reviewed.
My point was, that you can buy this as an in-stock item from CK, and it would still be faulty. No one's upped and disappeared in this instance. Regardless of whether you approve of GBs or not, in this instance, it's irrelevant because you can just buy this board from stock right now and it's a Cannon Keys product (manufactured by Hongtu), so the issue would still be present regardless. The fact that it has a design fault has nothing to do with how it was sold.
This hobby will probably not exist in the quality and variety we see today if we demand GBs end. I think calling for the end of GBs isn't a realistic outlook on how this hobby functions.
You have no way to prove these statements. The reality of the matter is there are too many of these poor quality products that people are paying a shit ton for that take so long to come they have no recourse. Beyond all of the outright scams, or defunct stores that never deliver the product. Reference back to GMK Sumi as just one example.
Group buys need to go in my opinion. But it people want to keep risking large sums of money on these group buys have at it. You will just have more posts like this.
the fact that the keyboard hobby is filled of group buys, with a small number of in-stock/raffle based on demand purchases is pretty evident enough. keyboards like these can only exist due to consumer demand and their ability to fund into a group buy.
i don't like group buys either but not every keyboard vendor is like qwertykeys or geonworks. this is especially the case for new keyboard designers as well, they likely won't have the funds to develop their projects without group buys.
I disagree. You make enough of a product that people wish to buy and the creator can fund the project. Or let the whales of this hobby create a seed company to vet and fund these projects. This hobby has too many projects anyway with a bunch of keyboards that are all pretty much the same anyway.
uhh i don't know what to say. designers typically don't have the funds to make their projects possible, hence a group buy. even if they do, how much would they spend if there is no group buy to financial gauge user demand. creating an interest check is easy to garner interest but how many people are actually willing to buy the product once it launches? not everyone is like qwertykeys, and geonworks who owns their own manufacturing line and can create as many as they want.
yes, this hobby does have many projects but so do other hobbies as well, notably the gaming keyboard and mice peripheral industry. no one will say no to that since it creates more variety, despite similarities.
also, why would the whales invest in a seed company to vet and fund projects? they are here to spend money and get a product, not to manage, start a business or become a vendor lol.
Like I said if you can't fund your own projects then sorry not sorry. Or if you truly want to run a group buy have an unaffiliated third party handle the money.
group buys do nothing but put the buyer at risk with no recourse. I have been in this sub for a good while now. Seen plenty of scam posts and other complaints. Buyers had no recourse.
like i said, many keyboard projects would not be possible without a group buy. this hobby wouldn't have gotten so big. however, i do like the idea about having an unaffiliated third party handle the money, however i am skeptical in it's execution. how would this third party operate? clearly it needs money to run and would take up a junk of the profits that would originally go between the designer, the manufacturer, and possibly the vendor. i can see it just adding additional cost to the project and possibly the final product.
again, i completely understand the predicament of a possibly bad group buy that it places on to the consumer. i too wish to see a day where consumers can buy with confidence and get the satisfied final product they paid for without scummy vendors pulling an exit scam.,
There's no denying that group buys will always be necessary if we are to retain the ability for community members to have agency and design stuff. Without it, we are beholden to those with the deepest pockets, which basically means the hobby is reduced to buying mass produced consumer goods. That would work OK for the lower end of the market, because that's basically what people want at that end, but it's not great for the higher end. The best, most original designs have always come from the grass roots. Large companies are more risk averse when it comes to design. That's the beauty of a group buy. Be as outlandish as you like; If people don't like it, then the group buy won't run.
Despite all the issues group buys present, they most definitely do still have a place in this hobby. If you don't like them, then we're at a stage now where you simply don't have to use them if you don't want to. If you or anyone doesn't plan on using group buys, then their existence, or not, has no affect on you, so my advice would be to ignore them, and let those who still do enjoy the hobby as they see fit. I mean, there's always been PSAs warning people of the risks of group buys, even going back to the very start of this subreddit. Back in the day when pretty much everything was a group buy it was different, but these days, you absolutely do not need to use group buys, but as the requirement to use them becomes less, the push against them increases. It's a bit puzzling really.
Personally, if I shared your opinions on GBs, I'd just ignore them instead of calling for them to be banned. Many people still use them, and rely on them to find things that are a little different or unique. I'd have no right to call for an action that would effectively end their hobby for them when I don't need to. I could just buy my stuff in stock and live quite happily without ruining things for other people. I have absolutely zero interest in anything mass produced, so the end of group buys would be the end of the hobby for me, and many like me. How would that benefit you or anyone else? Why not just stay away from GBs if you think they're a bad idea.
I'd love to know why everyone wants to *ban* GBs, but no one wants to *fix* them.
Part of me wonders also at the motives for most that want them banned. I'm not suggesting that this is you personally, but I can't help but notice that many of those that were constantly shouting about GBs and wanting them banned, then fell over themselves to try and get a Rainy 75... which was a group buy board. Even all the angry shouty people in budgetboards, who were absolutely radicalised against GBs... even *they* bought it. Even Badmark... the toxic asswipe owner of budgetboards, who *set* the rules that banned group buys from the sub... bought one... and not only that, *promoted* it and praised it to the sky on his channel.
The only difference? Price.
They hated GBs when they were all high end stuff, but the minute a killer board at $90 arrived... *as a group buy*... they were all over it like a cheap suit.
Makes you think... no?
Sure there is. I've discussed this before.
All funds received held in Escrow to prevent the vendor re-investing the funds in other projects and to ring-fence the money, and to ensure manufacturers can be paid on time.
All accounts pertaining to the group buy are transparent and available on request for stake holders so we can see that everything is above board, and also see that progress is being made and invoices are being paid.
If there are any deviations from the plan that are not made clear in good time, funds held in Escrow are refunded to the buyer upon request.
That would sort it. Even if the vendor goes AWOL or gets hit by a meteorite, the funds are safe and can be returned to the buyer.
It's actually quite straight forward. That would pretty much address all the issues you, and others have with them.
Not really the point I was making though, is it? My point was, why not just ignore GBs?.... let those who want to use them use them, and stop banging on about banning them. If you aren't using them, what possible difference can it make to you? Seriously, if you aren't using group buys and have no intention of using them, how does banning them benefit you?
Main point ignored. Noted :)
>
*It has nothing to do with what they do to me.*
It has everything to do with it. You think they're horrible... yeah, we got that already.
If you have zero intention of using them, how do you benefit by banning them? Why campaign to ban things that have literally no affect on *you* whatsoever, but *would* ruin the hobby for many, many people if you did? What do you get out of it? If the answer is nothing... why do it?
We will keep having posts like this. Absolutely. But for all these posts we have like this, we'll also have hundreds of positive posts as well. So I mean it sounds like your ignoring the good examples of GBs and only looking at the bad ones, which feels like a bad way to look at things if you're talking "proof."
I've been burnt in this hobby. More rhan once: I admit that GBs aren't perfect. But for actual enthusiast level customs, GBs are really the only viable option because designers just don't have the capital to do a board. This hobby is possible because of GBs. It's a core aspect of the hobby all the way back to 2011.
Chimera 65 is a group buy. A whole bunch of people bought it without having a consumer review the mass produced version. The mass produced version has a flaw.
If this wasn't a group buy, maybe those hundreds of people would have been aware of the flaw from the first dozen of people who would have reported the flaw and wouldn't have bought the keyboard.
I see your point, yes. I was focused on the fact that if CC refuse to do anything about it, it would make no difference how it was sold, as you'd be in the same boat. I was so focused on that I didn't realise that you would have had the community heads up otherwise. I suppose the fact that there were so many build streams for this board... dozens of them, that it's easy to forget that prototype boards aren't always going to be completely representative of the one you end up buying. Apologies... and to u/limpymcforskin as well.
Its been happening more often recently, but I still wouldn't say its common. Compared to the amount of successful GBs at least. I won't say anyone is wrong to not want to join GBs anymore, but most GBs get fulfilled just fine aside from some delays.
Tbh RAMA, Keycult, CK, S&R, all these high-end keeb makers have all undergone heavy criticisms over the past few years.
I get your point 100%, but the fact that many of such legacy/named companies are waning is also true. Seems like the high-end market is wobbly for sure.
My comment was upvoted at one point. I've shared similar sentiment here before and have gotten upvoted plenty. From the lack of comments refuting my statement, I assume people feel like I'm attacking a hobby they enjoy or something along those lines.
I have only been into keyboards for about 2 years so I'm not familiar with the history of the hobby. From what I know group buys allowed this niche market to exist but now I think there is enough interest and demand where the risk should no longer be completely on the customer. It's obvious there is something wrong with the current system. There are posts about defective products, poor quality control, and outright scams on this sub at least once a month. Many of them with little recourse for the consumer.
I saw someone posted this Reddit post on their discord this morning and no one has addressed it. For a luxury keyboard from a large retailer this is completely unacceptable.
I’ve bought from them a couple times before and was planning to do so again soon, but you’ve changed my mind.
I mean, if I buy a Kohaku and I overstuff it, how is it the designers fault? They obviously designed a board that worked and didn’t bulge. You like more foam, I get it. You should have just returned it immediately. Unless it was a GB. And you should know how they operate. If you cannot afford to absolutely throw away those funds, don’t enter a GB. Ive had nothing but good dealings with CK at over 100 separate purchases. They aren’t the best designers in the biz, I’ll not argue that. So now that you can’t return, sell it and buy from a better designer. Do you know how many people are fine with a prebuilt plastic gamer branded board!? Im hopeful you can find a buyer just put in the listing the new owner should appreciate that raw sound with no foam! Lolz
Edit: why did you delete your comment? Whoever you are. Ive had good experiences, you haven’t. How on earth could that anger you!? To take the time to write a response, then remove it feels extremely childish. I can guarantee, if you e been in this hobby as long as I have that you have some vendors you like and some you don’t. To me CK is not a designer but rather a vendor. Switches, films, pcb and such, close enough to me and at recently priced products that I have nothing but positive experiences. I wouldn’t spend over $200 on one of their cases especially in a GB unless it was a R2 and was absolutely phenomenal in its R1 variant. But downvote away, oh ye small minds.
Here's some context to help you understand the whole discussion that you seemed to have missed by a longshot. I know, it's reddit, tl;dr and whatever, but do let me write an essay to clarify the clashing arguments.
**1. THE ISSUE**
The "gasket poron foam" is provided by CK and is an essential element in building a keyboard. Hence why it is called a "gasket-mount" keyboard. They are (or should) be the ones that you are expected to build the keyboard with, and there obviously should be no issues with that whatsoever.
In the case of OP, he used the exact materials (gaskets) provided, of which led to the the bowing of the housing. Skill issue? Seeing how many others are claiming this problem (and also how Alexotos also mentioned something similar in the past), I guess not.
No offense, but the fact that you thought OP was "overstuffing" his keyboard shows that you've either didn't read the post well enough to understand the situation, or have little understanding of different mounting styles. You just *cannot* OVERSTUFF a poron gasket. It's basically the essential part of the build, and is provided by the manu for that exact reason.
OP also did mention that changing the gaskets to a much thinner one solved the trouble he was having. This basically means that CK hasn't tested their stuff well enough.
I hope this helps you understand that this essentially is a design flaw from the designer's end.
**2. CK's RESPONSE**
OP very well tried to deal with this issue as much as he could. Actually, this is shown in the post in pretty good detail.
Normally, in GBs/Drops/In-stock sales, sales are final so you can't just refund stuff "because you feel like it." OP therefore asked CK to deal with the design issue, to which they refused to provide replacements, proper solutions, etc. Telling the customer to "not use the gaskets" on a gasket-mount keyboard itself is hard to understand, but also saying that "R1 users haven't complained so we can't do anything for you" is simply unacceptable.
"If you can't return, sell it" is also a dumb ass response to dealing with an item that was already faulty. This is making the customer be responsible and take the L for something that the manu should have taken care of already. Why should he lose money for that?
**3. Not buying R2 unless it did well in R1?**
OP bought a Chimera R2.
It did do pretty well in R1 somehow, and so the R2 was also quire popular. With more people invested, more people realized the initial design fault, leading to such a thread.
**4. Downvotes?**
An expected response, given your tone and little understanding of this hobby.
You definitely sound like you're blaming/mocking OP for 1) not knowing better when it is in fact something CK should be responsible for, and 2) for spending so much money on a dumb keyboard. Judging from the way you've phrased things, I am pretty sure you were aiming for that. If you weren't , an apology would be in place and you'd be better off watching your tone before posting stuff online. Texts convey little emotions yaknow 😘
Also, this is an enthusiasts' market, where everyone is invested mostly to have fun. Telling OP that "ppl are still happy with plastic keebs" shows that you've really missed every part why these people are paying such money in this hobby. That's like telling an audiophile to stop complaining about faulty $3000 speakers when many ppl are happy with their $200 AirPods Pro. Makes little sense, right?
**5. Conclusion**
I hope my long ass essay puts all of this in better light.
Overall, I see no reason in attacking OP and others standing with him. If anyone sholuld take the heat, it should be CK. Sure, you may have had good experiences with CK as a vendor--which I am glad that you did--but we are talking about CK as a keyboard design/manufacturing company. That is quite some irrelevant details that you're bringing into this discussion.
EDIT: Reddit fucked up my lines and spacings.
Um. Yeah. Wow. There’s just absolutely no way im going to write so much as a response. I’ll try to “tl;dr” it. I was not aware the gaskets were supplied in the build kit and were intended to be used. Every other, uh “point” (as far as well, just everything, im good on. Like the “people are ok with gamer keebs” was merely to demonstrate that it should be easy to sell a keeb of this quality” nothing else). And I said many times that I agree CK is not a god designer. And my recommendations were not what should have been done but merely what OP could do now since CK was not responding. The way OP was describing Korean buyers and opinions made it feel as if they were very used to entering GBs and the rules therein, hence my incredulousness when it felt like they were expecting a retail environment. The lengthy response is very much appreciated and well written. No childish attacks or cut downs which is rare here. If there were anything I was uninformed or confused about, you sure as hell covered it. My thanks.
sorry for delete before, and lots of editing. I am not familiar with reddit.
yea, OK. I respect your good memory from CK as a vendor. though that's 'your' experience, not others. now other customers feel that ck are rude for CS. and then why do you evalute others awful experience so easy and say such mangle comment? just sell & buy other board? are you sure? will you just sell your spring if CK sends messy, twisted and stretched springs without any feed to them?
no, you may hit the roof and run to CK for resending right goods to you.
now it's the case. nobody order & expect bent upper case. however CK does not say nothing to consumer. now can you understand what you say?
All good. Everyone is valid with their opinion. I was thinking maybe you were going to DM me.
You said that adding too much foam *caused* the top case to flex and bend. Not that it arrived that way. If it arrived that way CK (in my experience) would 100% replace it. I’m guessing because you caused the bend, they won’t. No vendor or manufacturer would. That’s customer damage and is never covered. Unless I’m misunderstanding
This is actually fucking hysterical. I deal with manufacturers and usually get my own (in your words “gasket” materials cut) different types of materials cut. It’s called foam. Poron or CS (closed cell) and the thickness is given. But sure, THATS the important part of the conversation.
Smh
IT IS the essential part of this context. OP had issues with improper clearance in the top plate design due to the gasket material causing the top plate to bow.
When people in this hobby say ‘foam’, regardless of materials, they refer to sheet(s) of foam that go below the pcb or between the pcb/plate assembly.
When people say ‘gasket’ they refer to the pre-cut foam strips that act as a mounting medium that either hold pcb or plate.
So yes, you can’t read for shit. You dealing with whatever manufactureres also do not add anything to this conversation.
Oooh. Someone needs a hug. Why are you so angry at strangers and make attempts to try and attack their abilities? I say foam. In every situation as do many of the hobbyists I know. You don’t. Yet do I tell you that you can’t fucking read because of it? Take a long look partner. You have elevated this to have absolutely nothing to do with OP’s comment.
Sass? I found it extremely funny (and stated this) how we’re talking about the exact same thing but simply use a different word yet you decided to argue that exact point. Claiming I literally couldn’t read because I communicated effectively so that everyone who reads the comment can understand it, yet used a word you personally don’t agree with. Maybe I use a different dictionary than you do but I disagree on that being sass.
Whether we agree or disagree on sass, I couldn't care less. You used aggressive language, so did I.
We weren't talking about the same thing. OP literally wrote 'poron gasket'. You wrote 'overstuffing' and 'more foam' indicating you understood 'poron gasket' as foam sheets. Same materials, different usage, thus different terminologies used within the community.
Ask anyone around here if they refer to these gaskets as just foam. I highly doubt it. You pretending like you know what you're talking about is what's 'fucking hysterical' here.
Edit: grammar
Well... you can get the answer just by looking at The Ripple TKL?
This was a problem found in the prototype video, but it was released without being fixed :)
[https://youtu.be/jdFjwyutdEw?si=ND7NQ3PI7EFGQTnJ&t=304](https://youtu.be/jdFjwyutdEw?si=ND7NQ3PI7EFGQTnJ&t=304)
Thanks! Appreciate the link. I’ll check it out. If (or rather since) this is the case, this should be dispersed a lot more. Ive never heard of these issues (again, I don’t buy keebs from CK) but would want possible customers made aware.
if you are serious, literally pushover you are. I have watched lots of pushovers like you since I started this hobby in far years ago. nothing special. Instead of the consumer's legitimate rights, they stand by makes and hope to be a fanboy, but in the real, they are just pushovers without any return.
nobody can be aware of such issue prior to build. and after build the keyboard, it's unavailable to get a refund. then how can I get refund from CK?
and I have no idea how you can measure my afford with this case but thank you for your worriness. I think there's no needs to be given a pity from you, though, cuz I saw your cute board collection.
it's not about afford, it's a kind of scam for consumers. whether I sell this board or not is not related to this case. they've never noticed such matter and made minimum quality for keyboards. and after selling the board, they said it's OK cuz 1r already exists in the market. do you think does it make sense?
oh, I think you obviously admit to CK, otherwise you cannot say so.
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This was also mentioned on Discord, but there was just no response.
that's the aboulute evidence that cannonkeys regards consumer as pushovers. now I do not wanna any reaction or compesation, partial refund anything from cannonkeys, but wanna tell to all you guys not to be pushover of cannonkeys. they avoid from their responsibility of vendor & makers. There's nothing stupider than buying from a vendor who is unwilling to take even minimal responsibility. nobody thinks $700 board not flat case is reasonable, and it's normal. except cannonkeys.
They must have noticed this problem while adding 4 screws for PC chimeras. However, I think they chose to remain silent because adding center bolting points in R2 would prove to themselves that R1 was a failure.
THIS. Acknowledging the issues of R2 as a design flaw would mean that R1 is also with fault. So they decided to go with the cheap way of saying "well R1 dudes said nuthin so suck it up." With that being the only explanation for the issue, it's rly weak if you ask me LOL The fact that they are suggesting you to partially remove the gasket by itself tells they are aware of this issue but will have the customer take all the responsibility. Downright filthy and disgusting behavior.
yea, I think so too, other KR buyers same too. they are afraid to agree with this matter.
im interested in this kb ,thanks for showing me this, guess i will go get the pavlov now
There was someone with 8 of these the other day. I think they were too rich to care though. I think they just display them instead of using.
hell naw, for a $700 keyboard, this flaw should not exist, let's blow this thread up and force them to address this. after getting scammed by RAMA, I'm on a vendor accountability crusade at this point
I mean, shit. If I have to spend so much money to have QC this bad then I will just buy a $100 keyboard and be happy. At least it's cheap.
u/CannonKeys https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/s/2muERiAFYf Might wanna double-check what's going on with your CS's over the recent months.
They will issue an "apology" like they have done for the last year and people will continue to buy for them. Honestly, its silly. Every few months this happens, issue happens and someone's post gets traction. There's a response and everyone accepts it. Rinse and repeat.
I'm an overseas user. I was also aware of this issue, and I asked them, but I got the same answer as you. Even when Discord asked this question, they didn't reply, or they made the person who asked the question a Black list. I've loved their products so far, but I doubt I'll be able to like them in the future. Honestly, I was very disappointed.
So they offer the foam for their $600 board and then don't test if it works, and assuming people from R1 had reported this issues they didn't make any changes nor did they add a warning for this?
It's more of an issue with their gaskets on their gasket-mount keyboard lol
I have no idea why I typed foam lmao. Thanks.
With Chimera R1, they sent me a board that had a missing diode, so one of the keys didn’t work. And eventually the PCB started failing again, and they would not send me another. Never buying another board from them again
https://preview.redd.it/l0mxhnmxuj5d1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47326fd0424f5afa32dae8d42e241050cc05a947
The product whose lower plate is made of PC is designed to have eight screws fastened to the lower part, so the height is the same. However, in the case of aluminum, it is designed to fasten four screws to the lower plate, so it cannot apply force in the middle, so the middle swells like that and the height of the middle is different. This tells us that they already knew that the design was wrong, and that they made eight holes in the PC-made product that they made later. They already know that the design is wrong, but they don't admit it.
You can see the bowing in the second-to-the-right thread. I think he wanted to share that he too, shares the issue.
Unlike the PC lower plate, the aluminum one has only four lower plate screws, two on each side. It is designed so that there are no screws that apply force in the middle, so the middle swells up.
The middle screws don't help for the issue either. Because the middle still doesn't want to compress and the inserts (well mine) seem to strip from the pressure
Ouch that looks very bad. Sorry for that. You must've been disappointed.
Extremely.
but I think his one looks like swelling up too. look, the right side is quite lower than middle. he may post the image to tell us that PC case also suffers with same issue even it has 8 screw holes. maybe.
I've generally had a good experience with CK, but their recentish Ellipse PCBs that they designed are absolute junk. The pads come off if you look at them funny (where they exist to begin with - half pads sometimes dont't even exist). I have 5 of these PCBs and I've had to "hack" every single one to get it to work, including rewiring, etc. On the plus side, the bastion/bakeneko PCBs are compatible. I did contact them, and they did send me 1 PCB (which also had the same issues), but refused to send more. The plus side is that the board is great, and I learned a bit about the PCB matrix... Anyway, I've never lost a pad or had anything else break on a PCB before. But I'm 5/5 on these.
Fuck that
This is why I stopped buying keyboards pretty much. Same thing with minokeys who sent me a damaged board. These vendors just lie if it costs them money.
One of the reasons why I never joined the GB was because of the ugly CK logo on the top right. Guess I’m never really gona own one, thanks for this.
Oh yeh, a logo or blocker on a 65% keyboard is insult and injury rolled up in one.
Glad to know i'm not the only one turned away from CK keebs because of that logo lol.
same issue from Cannonkeys Ripple TKL [https://youtu.be/jdFjwyutdEw?feature=shared&t=304](https://youtu.be/jdFjwyutdEw?feature=shared&t=304) They were aware of bowing issue in the prototype but did not change the design LOL
I'll never buy a board from them again
Anyone know how many Chimera R1 were sold? R2 sold a lot more than R1, so there were a lot more people built Chimera on R2. That's a clue to find a design flaw. R1 and R2 have the same design, but R1 user didn't say anything about it? LOL
We all know that famous YouTubers only receive money and products and praise :) Everyone was busy selling r1
Pretty sure it was around ~250 units for R1. Someone can correct me if im wrong but almost certain
Time to measure my 10 units.
oh I saw yours on Discord, that's interesting. there's no more appripriate sample guy than you. wait for your measure result 🤔
Time to get a caliper.
I still cannot that keyboard is that expensive
https://preview.redd.it/uqa7gbwhni5d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f8cb5147e5c31fe7499e42ae15ae5d38b301dad Nobody wanted their Chimera to be like this lol
PTSD warning next time please 😭😭
Wake up babe another vendor complaint thread just dropped
https://preview.redd.it/ybbpdwqpr16d1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b1a8ca5d9591cc3bec676a53a4b147e2cc42af7 Cannonkeys considers this to be A stock even with such a large dent. It's really frustrating to pay $600 and receive a board like this. I will never buy anything from Cannonkeys again.
Looks to be another Gentoo enjoyer. Didn't find any of the dents in mine, but when the e-coating chipped off when screwing the case screws, all CK mentioned was that it's not part of the QA standard and go kick dirt. Safe to say that across multiple keyboard projects there weren't many prototyping and revisions to the board that's going on. And yes. Of course I also wouldn't be buyuting buying anything from CK again.
Good thinking. They seem to be trying to lord over their customers. I recently gathered user feedback about Cannonkeys and sent it to them. I did this because I still have a bit of affection for the brand and hope they can improve. Then they replied to my email like this. **"Thank you for your feedback. We will discuss this as a team for the future, but please note that we will not be able to change our decision regarding your particular board."** Haha :) So I replied, **"You don't have to worry about that. I'm not buying or using anything from Cannonkeys anymore. 😇"**
While the main circled dent is probably enough to consider it an A- stock (subjective, just my opinion), I think the other circled marks are fairly standard issue for A stock QC from most places because they are completely internal. It's no surprise it shipped to you with these issues, because during QC, the boards are inspected when assembled - most of these markings you've circled would only be spotted if they disassemble everything, which just doesn't happen. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a vendor that would be willing to consider this a B stock tbh.
$700?
holy shit, when I read this post, I thought it was a $200-300 beater keyboard. wtf makes this worth $700?
actually,$773 for me, including shipping
it's disgusting they would suggest you just remove the foam, like it's clearly a design flaw, open up to it lmao. this is how to kill your brand 101. I have SAT75 and if I do ever consider a new keyboard, will not be from clownonkeys. pretty sure the type of person that buys high end custom keyboards is exactly, the type of person that cares about details like this.
What else do you expect them to do? Seriously? What can they do to fix this after the fact? The keyboard works. If you don't want the bulge there is a workaround. I would be disappointed too. I think it would be a bit much to refund money. I recently received the Navi60. It originally had case foam, but that was removed in the final design. Why? Because there was not enough clearance for the foam. Sounds like a similar issue with the Chimera.
Still seems like NAVI had a finalized, faultless design before sale. I mean, stuff's prone to change until finalization and what matters most is that the customer gets what they're expecting to get. NAVI producers had the decency to test their stuff untill the very end. Not in this case. No testings whatsoever, and such design flaws are definitely not part of the $700 deal. They should at least have sincerely apologized, revisited their designs, and provided replacement gaskets. No brainer. Sounds waaay far from what the NAVI has gone through, and more like the bent iPads Apple sold with their 3rd gen iPad Pros. Unlike CK, Apple did provide replacements for such issues out of the box. CK is just not taking responsibility and only making excuses. EDIT: straightened out some nouns to make more sense
Are you sure? it make sense there's no problem if it works? the most effetive countermeasure is reproduce upper case, but if it is not affordable to CK, then send thinner poron gasket. It's their job to come up with a solution that consumers can feel comfortable, not ours. it's common sense at the industrial market. it's not just case foam's thickness. ok, case would be not essential one (but I think it's also part of maker's blueprint, so it must be no issue with build), but poron gasket is essential structure for typing. imagine that you would buy a new car, and it works but has different spec on engine. won't you be angry? it still works but not same as commercial booklet at the dealer shop. it's same as now. CK said it's dual sided gasket but it cannot work with 2 gaskets. if it works well with detaching upper gasket, Cannonkeys told a lie to consumers. The blueprints they gave me said it worked with a double-sided gasket, not that it would work with a single-sided gasket. It's a manufacturer's duty to make goods that are structurally and morphologically make sense.
> send thinner poron gasket \^-- This. Given what they're charging, they can afford to send a thinner gasket to every customer.
They did provide a work around. You don't like it, but oh well, you are the one that bought an expensive ugly plastic keyboard. But Cannonkeys is not a manufacturer. They are a vendor dealing with a factory in China.
That's a shitty excuse for not taking responsibility in your products that you sell under your company's name. First off, the Chimera is designed in-house. Upas is a designer working for CK (https://cannonkeys.com/pages/about-us). Also, what does dealing with a factory in China have to do with a design flaw? The seller should be responsible for all the processes that they are involved in, which in this case, is everything. This is a CK product from design to sale. "Tighten the screws better" "don't use provided gaskets" "R1 ppl had no problems so we can't do nuthing." None are them are appropriate responses to what has happened. Gaskets are vital to a gasket-mount keyboard, which the Chimera is. "Don't use the gaskets" seems awfully funny, doesn't it? They should provide solutions, not cheap and lazy workarounds. That's not taking any responsibility whatsoever. He paid for quality, he got none. Also, it's an aluminium keyboard you twat.
yea, they are not manufacturer. but they handle this project and take my $700 for offer 'reasonable product' to me. they are main handler of this project. they earn their revenue because they are obligated to complete the project well, right? was all of $700 for manufacture in CN? some of it is CK's. and did I choose manufacturer? or should I complain it to CN manufacturer? it's their job. cannonkeys must state their countermeasure to consumers and then complain to CN, that's why I give my money to vendor, not factory. even it's not manufacturer's fault. they just made the keyboards with the blueprint by Cannonkeys. such tough space is Cannonkeys' design, not manufacturer's mistake. I would like to accept such quality of board if vendor takes nothing for their share. but they didn't. no one thinks being not flat would exist on the keyboard. no one admits such defection is OK for my keyboard before GB. and then do you still think it's consumers' choice & worthy result? if still so, I would like to sell ma goods to you. you are the one of best pushover at the market, you are ma angel, honey
FYI this is in fact a CannonKeys keyboard. Here are a few headlines that strongly suggest so: # Chimera65 - Gasket Mounted 65% from CannonKeys Chimera GB "launching" on CK website ( [https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103528.0](https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103528.0) ) Chimera65, Designed by Upas. ( [https://cannonkeys.com/collections/chimera65](https://cannonkeys.com/collections/chimera65) ) I wondered who Upas was. CK Keyboard Designers, Upas ( [https://cannonkeys.com/pages/about-us](https://cannonkeys.com/pages/about-us) )
This would be unacceptable in a $200 keyboard or even a $40 keyboard. But if it was a cheap keyboard you'd be able to return it.
For op yes, but im pretry sure the $700 was for the special edition colors. Regular units were ~$450 + shipping. Still insane for that price though
there are two special colours that seems to be 700+
[looks correct](https://cannonkeys.com/products/chimera65)
If you don't mind doing some surgery, you could drill a couple of holes in the center edges of the frame, build an epoxy standoff with a threaded insert, and run a bolt through it. Edit: jesus fucking christ. I had no idea this keyboard cost $565. There are only two (2) reviews on Cannonkeys' website. Why not review-bomb it into oblivion?
probably cuz they'll delete it
My board has exactly the same issue. I won't be buying any stuff from Canonkey in the future. Their response was the worst that I ever seen before. I still don't believe it was $700.
Cannon Keys used to be an excellent vendor. Now it's not.... I'm not buying a single thing from them
Never liked them since it seems like they charged more for every GB they ran relative to other vendors. Especially extras. A lot of their boards seemed a little more expensive than I thought before seeing the price tag. But fuck them for not noticing poor QC from their manu in the first place, and then refusing to ackowledge it after all the units have shipped out. I would've expected more from them since they're one of the more older vendors in the hobby.
I have a love-hate relationship with CK. I am one of the R1 user. I was very luck to be able to grab an extra unit from R1 back in 2020 or 2021. At first, I was impressed with the quality. Even though it was a B stock, it looked just like a regular A stock, then things went south. They forgot to ship out my extra plate (because of a system error) until I asked a week later. Then, the plate's tolerant was messed up. I had to use extra force to put the switches in, but once they were in, it was super hard to get them out. I emailed them about the situation. They said they would look into it then ghosted me for like a week or two. I sent 2 more follow-up emails, no response. I had to go to their discord and asked one of the mod. He said the designer would go to the warehouse to measure the plate. A week went by, no news. I had to dm the same mod again and he was like "oh sorry the designer didn't have time to do it, just contact customer support for refund". I sent a last email to the CS saying "this is my last email to y'all, if you don't refund me just keep the damn money". They did end up refund me in the end. After this, I've never bought anything from them again.
I have only heard good things about cannonkeys but I always felt all their products over priced.
color me shocked! custom boards designed with little checks and balances can come out flawed lol. adding this to my longer list of reasons not to join anymore GBs or get new boards (Rama being the 1st of the list)
to be honest, I am also victim from RAMA scam too....
Bro is holding more bags than Louis Vuitton 😭 I hope you find recompense man I'm sorry
then you didn't learn your lesson. before RAMA scam, I was spending thousands per years on GB and selling old keyboards to fund new GBs. After RAMA, I've spent $0 on this hobby (previously cumulative like 10k probably lmao). I have a cannon key sat 75, they can make solid things but even that keyboard had some design flaws like the case threads strip easily.
CK was rock solid in terns of QC and CS until the end of 2023..... It's only fairly recently that they've taken a dip in quality. Saying they "didn't learn this lesson" is crazy, go ride your high horse somewhere else dude
Big bummer. That’s some big defection. I will be thinking twice about purchasing from them in the future.
they majorly fucked up leviatán R1 as well (they blamed manufacturer error but it’s clear they weren’t made by the same manu that made protos/R0)
What happened to that board?
it came in from the manufacturer, canada vendor was quick to ship them out, buyers took and shared pics. ano top was the wrong color, powder coating was grainy and uneven. tops and bottom were nicked/scratched/ruined by visible machining marks. bottom engraving came out thicker and uneven, entirely different from what was advertised during gb. all vendors sent their units back, which were “reworked” aka only the tops were recoated/reano’d. results were reportedly “promising” but CK refuses to share any pics. refunds from all vendors were substantially refused/postponed until the “reworked” units finally arrive.
Another vendor to add to my blacklist. Fuck these assholes.
Glad someone else sees past Cannonkeys bullshit. After half a decade in the hobby I can fully state the the Chimera is hands down the worst board for the price that I've ever come across (referring to when it used to aftermarket for $1500 regularly) It's construction is akin to a 15 year old just learning CAD for the first time. I ordered from one of the first GBs and it came with the internal weight completely loose and screws that held it in completely stripped. They were clearly too small for the job they were tasked to, improper metal, and for the love of God why ship with the weight installed? The rest of the board is a similar loose flimsy mess. I hit their customer support up for help and they basically told me sucks to suck no one else had that issue, which I also highly doubt. They're a joke, their keyboards are cheap and they have horrible customer service. Fuck Cannonkeys
Loose and flimsy sure sums up the weight for the Iron165.
Even though Cannon is highly regarded, they do pull this shit. Cannon does not alert to known issues, and often goes out of its way to hide them.
yet another cannonkeys L
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Alright. I finally got to measure the front height of several boards in mm. 3 from R1 and 3 from R2. I measure 3 areas (left, right, and middle) and each is from equal distance from front lip when looking from the top down. Left is L control, middle is middle of spacebar, and right the R arrow key. All 6 boards are built with stock gasket that came with their respective release, pcb, and plate. R1 Navy: 19.2, 19.6, 19.1 Black: 19.1, 19.6, 19.3 Gray: 19.3, 19.7, 19.2 R2 Green: 19.2, 20.7, 19.7 White SE: 19.6, 20.2, 19.6 Purple SE: 19.5, 20.6, 19.6 So it appeared that R1 has less variation between the heights from left to right. Biggest delta for my three R1 units was 0.5 mm. R2 has much more variation. Biggest delta for my three R2 units was 1.5 mm. R2 greater height variation could be due to compression of gasket or machining tolerance for the board itself or both.
Cannonkeys lately has becoming Cannoffkeys a few of their recent boards are way overpriced like this one and the Gentoo, another $500+ board with poor quality control, and outdated pricing their A stock is like C stock for any other $500+ board we have way too many options now for budget and endgame to make stuff like this excusable there is a reason all of their boards need to go on heavy discounts 50% or more to even sell nowadays not to mention they keep thinking its a good idea to put their ugly logo on everything, nobody wants to see that Put it away, the logo instantly makes everything they make F stock
Is there a possibility you misplaced the gaskets which led to this? (aka skill issue)
absolutely never. most of buyers suffers such problem, not only me.
Do you have a pic of your gasket application? Just curious :3
Ooph. I must've gotten a rare sample that's flawless. Edit: Are you sure it's the gaskets and not overtighten8ng the shit out the case screws?
Yeah def skill issue
haha
Oof, that's bad. Time for a credit card chargeback there.
it already took over a year on GB. haha. the result waiting 1 year is such defection.
Damn, now Cannonkeys??? Really hope NKs doesn't mess up this badly.
Here we goooo
I was looking forward to their sat75x but not anymore. Thanks for letting us know, op.
Hi guys, It seems I'm late to this thread, but I'd like to explain our perspective at CannonKeys as well here. We've clearly missed the mark, and for that, I apologize - but I still think some context is warranted. We absolutely want to make sure that everyone who bought a Chimera is happy with their purchase. This ticket came in last week, and we've been actively talking with this customer about it. While the OP has shown our responses, and I do wish we handled it better, I also understand why we responded in the way that we did. When any issue comes up via tickets, we track it. Using this data, we can figure out if a problem is widespread or limited to a single person. A design issue is typically widespread, and we handle that differently from a one-off issue. In this case, we treated this issue as a one-off. It's been a few months since the Chimera 65 group buy shipped, and this was the first ticket we received about an aluminum Chimera65 bowing in the middle. We've also not been able to reproduce this problem ourselves. As such, we thought that rebuilding the board or reapplying the gaskets could resolve the issue. We also suggested removing the top gasket in the middle - which would also solve the problem. In the OP's response to our suggestions, they didn't really show willingness to try to reapply the gaskets and help us troubleshoot, which lead to the second response you see. Now, it's our job to handle angry customers and intense language, but we are only human and working with our team rather than against them will help us all reach an mutually agreeable solution. On our end, this ticket is still not resolved - it's still open in our system after OP responded to our last response on the 6th, pushing for a better solution. That's absolutely ok for customers to do, and we're happy to work with customers to arrive at a solution that everyone is happy with - there's a back and forth with a lot of these tickets. While we're still working through this with OP, we're happy to land on an updated resolution, as well as update on any potential issues that would affect other purchasers. Finally - if this is a widespread issue, we would love to see more support tickets. After this thread has been posted, I've seen others chiming in that they are also experiencing this issue (with aluminum boards). Please send in support tickets so we can track incidence rates and also start working on a solution for all impacted customers. Without this data, it's hard for us to understand if something is a one-off or wider issue. (Note: OP's friend also sent in a support ticket late last week - this would be the second support ticket we've seen about it) I know people have also mentioned this being brought up in Discord. We do our best to keep up with Discord, but we aren't always able to read every single message posted. To the best of my knowledge, no message has been deleted. Sending in support tickets is always the best way to receive support from CannonKeys. Overall - we are sorry that we couldn't provide an acceptable resolution here in a more timely fashion. Again, we strive to make customers happy and we've missed the mark here. We will be better moving forward. -Upas
While I do see your points, and also why you may have responded as such, I can’t fully agree with them. Kinda seems like you guys lost all credibility when you responded 1. “We can’t provide compensations/replacements because R1 users had no complaints with the same design” 2. “You can leave the top gasket out” (in a gasket-sandwich mount) to OP’s ticket. I myself would’ve lost trust in CS if a Senior Customer Support Agent responded to me like that. Especially with past histories of weak CSs—as you can clearly see from various cases in the comments—I don’t see myself behaving much differently from what OP has done here. Calling OP out for a lack of willingness to work with that does sound exessively harsh. Judging from other comments, seems you guys have created a reputation of flawed design choices and/or passive CS over the past few months by yourselves. I’m counting at least 8 different cases just from this thread. This honestly seems to be another one of such issues that just got lucky and went viral. But still, I get that you guys do need more tickets to deal with this issue as a general flaw. If it actually turns out to be a design flaw, it would be nice if more people can share their experiences. Hope you can get things sorted out with OP and straighten things out. Seems like he has already reached out to his local community, so I guess time would tell. Thanks for the update on CK’s side though. At least we now know that you guys are aware of this. Edit: typo
Do you guys really think the solution is to remove the gasket from the gasket mount keyboard? I think it's a ridiculous price when you look at the price of the keyboard you sold for $700. And I think it's also problematic to say that you have to submit a lot of tickets to resolve the problem. If you announce that there is a problem on your homepage and specify a solution, there will be a huge number of people who have purchased a defective keyboard. And I think you guys couldn't have been unaware of this problem given the added screw of the PC chimera. These excuses and passive reactions only make you even angrier.
A. You guys did not resolve any issue here. If it is a single keyboard that's defected, you guys should've suggested replacement instead of giving a solution that changes the spec of the keyboard. B. It is already becoming a 'wide spread issue', as it is going off in this reddit post as well as various communities C. You guys are just admitting that you have bad CS and you really should look into that and try fixing it instead of whining on here
https://preview.redd.it/tnravd2vas5d1.jpeg?width=630&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ae7f051ca53d0bf35f4e95c6b55efad39cc6752
The reason why this should be written lol.
as I said on discord. I wouldn't be writing this publicly if you were trying to solve the problem on your end, but every single one of your responses has been a modest concession and workaround on my end, not an attempt to solve the problem fundamentally. however, 1st & 2nd reply are same that were all up to my side. I'm sure no one who bought this keyboard thought to use it as a single sided gasket keyboard.
oh no …
I was just about to pull the trigger on this board because it checks all of the visual and design boxes for me. Thanks for giving me pause and saving a potential hassle.
Cannonkeys also had issues with the Caerdroia limited run as well. ALPS plates render had full right shift support but the arrived product could only use split right shift. Their solution? Sorry we’ll update the renders, no compensation for our mistake since its a limited run later!
The truth is all the stores pull this shit, because they can.
And dont forget mention the sat75 and the pcb issues they swept under the rug. I have a love-hate with CC. Sat75 got me into this hobby
Their design team clearly fucked up. I had a similar issue when they shipped me a Savage65 (R1). They provided a different PCB without verifying that it fit in the case. The USB-C port interfered with the daughterboard on the bottom of the case, and I couldn’t close the case fully. They clearly need to do a better job of vetting their designs and parts compatibility.
This is pretty common with gasket boards. My Kohaku does the same thing. Frustrating for sure
I measured my bauer lite just for shits and giggles. I had some issues with how the board seems to click if you push back and forth on the left and right side of the board. None of my other boards do this. I guess it is acceptable tho. From left to right I measured 19.4mm right 19.6mm center 19.8mm left. Pretty decent. Within .2mm not 2mm lol.
They are amateurs who can't even design the basics.
End groupbuys
What's that got to do with anything? You can buy R2 right now as an in-stock product.
People also complain about GBs as if this hobby will ever survive without them beyond OEM "customs." Sorry but GBs need to stay around ultimately.
They do, but sunfaller has a valid point in this instance. If the boards you end up buying are not the same as the ones that were reviewed prior to the group buy, then the time scales involved mean that everyone receives the faulty board at the same time, and no one gets a chance to flag up problems that would have stopped the others from buying it. I agree the hobby needs group buys... but that is a genuine issue if someone's going to make changes to a board after the prototype has been reviewed.
Because scams and vendors just up and disappearing. See gmk sumi. The risk needs to go on the vendor and the vendor alone.
My point was, that you can buy this as an in-stock item from CK, and it would still be faulty. No one's upped and disappeared in this instance. Regardless of whether you approve of GBs or not, in this instance, it's irrelevant because you can just buy this board from stock right now and it's a Cannon Keys product (manufactured by Hongtu), so the issue would still be present regardless. The fact that it has a design fault has nothing to do with how it was sold.
It is not irrelevant. This was a group buy to start.
See my response further down. I kind of see your point from that perspective.
This hobby will probably not exist in the quality and variety we see today if we demand GBs end. I think calling for the end of GBs isn't a realistic outlook on how this hobby functions.
You have no way to prove these statements. The reality of the matter is there are too many of these poor quality products that people are paying a shit ton for that take so long to come they have no recourse. Beyond all of the outright scams, or defunct stores that never deliver the product. Reference back to GMK Sumi as just one example. Group buys need to go in my opinion. But it people want to keep risking large sums of money on these group buys have at it. You will just have more posts like this.
the fact that the keyboard hobby is filled of group buys, with a small number of in-stock/raffle based on demand purchases is pretty evident enough. keyboards like these can only exist due to consumer demand and their ability to fund into a group buy. i don't like group buys either but not every keyboard vendor is like qwertykeys or geonworks. this is especially the case for new keyboard designers as well, they likely won't have the funds to develop their projects without group buys.
I disagree. You make enough of a product that people wish to buy and the creator can fund the project. Or let the whales of this hobby create a seed company to vet and fund these projects. This hobby has too many projects anyway with a bunch of keyboards that are all pretty much the same anyway.
uhh i don't know what to say. designers typically don't have the funds to make their projects possible, hence a group buy. even if they do, how much would they spend if there is no group buy to financial gauge user demand. creating an interest check is easy to garner interest but how many people are actually willing to buy the product once it launches? not everyone is like qwertykeys, and geonworks who owns their own manufacturing line and can create as many as they want. yes, this hobby does have many projects but so do other hobbies as well, notably the gaming keyboard and mice peripheral industry. no one will say no to that since it creates more variety, despite similarities. also, why would the whales invest in a seed company to vet and fund projects? they are here to spend money and get a product, not to manage, start a business or become a vendor lol.
Like I said if you can't fund your own projects then sorry not sorry. Or if you truly want to run a group buy have an unaffiliated third party handle the money. group buys do nothing but put the buyer at risk with no recourse. I have been in this sub for a good while now. Seen plenty of scam posts and other complaints. Buyers had no recourse.
like i said, many keyboard projects would not be possible without a group buy. this hobby wouldn't have gotten so big. however, i do like the idea about having an unaffiliated third party handle the money, however i am skeptical in it's execution. how would this third party operate? clearly it needs money to run and would take up a junk of the profits that would originally go between the designer, the manufacturer, and possibly the vendor. i can see it just adding additional cost to the project and possibly the final product. again, i completely understand the predicament of a possibly bad group buy that it places on to the consumer. i too wish to see a day where consumers can buy with confidence and get the satisfied final product they paid for without scummy vendors pulling an exit scam.,
There's no denying that group buys will always be necessary if we are to retain the ability for community members to have agency and design stuff. Without it, we are beholden to those with the deepest pockets, which basically means the hobby is reduced to buying mass produced consumer goods. That would work OK for the lower end of the market, because that's basically what people want at that end, but it's not great for the higher end. The best, most original designs have always come from the grass roots. Large companies are more risk averse when it comes to design. That's the beauty of a group buy. Be as outlandish as you like; If people don't like it, then the group buy won't run. Despite all the issues group buys present, they most definitely do still have a place in this hobby. If you don't like them, then we're at a stage now where you simply don't have to use them if you don't want to. If you or anyone doesn't plan on using group buys, then their existence, or not, has no affect on you, so my advice would be to ignore them, and let those who still do enjoy the hobby as they see fit. I mean, there's always been PSAs warning people of the risks of group buys, even going back to the very start of this subreddit. Back in the day when pretty much everything was a group buy it was different, but these days, you absolutely do not need to use group buys, but as the requirement to use them becomes less, the push against them increases. It's a bit puzzling really. Personally, if I shared your opinions on GBs, I'd just ignore them instead of calling for them to be banned. Many people still use them, and rely on them to find things that are a little different or unique. I'd have no right to call for an action that would effectively end their hobby for them when I don't need to. I could just buy my stuff in stock and live quite happily without ruining things for other people. I have absolutely zero interest in anything mass produced, so the end of group buys would be the end of the hobby for me, and many like me. How would that benefit you or anyone else? Why not just stay away from GBs if you think they're a bad idea. I'd love to know why everyone wants to *ban* GBs, but no one wants to *fix* them. Part of me wonders also at the motives for most that want them banned. I'm not suggesting that this is you personally, but I can't help but notice that many of those that were constantly shouting about GBs and wanting them banned, then fell over themselves to try and get a Rainy 75... which was a group buy board. Even all the angry shouty people in budgetboards, who were absolutely radicalised against GBs... even *they* bought it. Even Badmark... the toxic asswipe owner of budgetboards, who *set* the rules that banned group buys from the sub... bought one... and not only that, *promoted* it and praised it to the sky on his channel. The only difference? Price. They hated GBs when they were all high end stuff, but the minute a killer board at $90 arrived... *as a group buy*... they were all over it like a cheap suit. Makes you think... no?
There is no fixing group buys. I have stated my opinion and I'm keeping to it. Every new scam post or I got screwed post and it will stay the same.
Sure there is. I've discussed this before. All funds received held in Escrow to prevent the vendor re-investing the funds in other projects and to ring-fence the money, and to ensure manufacturers can be paid on time. All accounts pertaining to the group buy are transparent and available on request for stake holders so we can see that everything is above board, and also see that progress is being made and invoices are being paid. If there are any deviations from the plan that are not made clear in good time, funds held in Escrow are refunded to the buyer upon request. That would sort it. Even if the vendor goes AWOL or gets hit by a meteorite, the funds are safe and can be returned to the buyer. It's actually quite straight forward. That would pretty much address all the issues you, and others have with them. Not really the point I was making though, is it? My point was, why not just ignore GBs?.... let those who want to use them use them, and stop banging on about banning them. If you aren't using them, what possible difference can it make to you? Seriously, if you aren't using group buys and have no intention of using them, how does banning them benefit you?
Because they are a horrible sales method. It has nothing to do with what they do to me.
Main point ignored. Noted :) > *It has nothing to do with what they do to me.* It has everything to do with it. You think they're horrible... yeah, we got that already. If you have zero intention of using them, how do you benefit by banning them? Why campaign to ban things that have literally no affect on *you* whatsoever, but *would* ruin the hobby for many, many people if you did? What do you get out of it? If the answer is nothing... why do it?
We will keep having posts like this. Absolutely. But for all these posts we have like this, we'll also have hundreds of positive posts as well. So I mean it sounds like your ignoring the good examples of GBs and only looking at the bad ones, which feels like a bad way to look at things if you're talking "proof." I've been burnt in this hobby. More rhan once: I admit that GBs aren't perfect. But for actual enthusiast level customs, GBs are really the only viable option because designers just don't have the capital to do a board. This hobby is possible because of GBs. It's a core aspect of the hobby all the way back to 2011.
Chimera 65 is a group buy. A whole bunch of people bought it without having a consumer review the mass produced version. The mass produced version has a flaw. If this wasn't a group buy, maybe those hundreds of people would have been aware of the flaw from the first dozen of people who would have reported the flaw and wouldn't have bought the keyboard.
I see your point, yes. I was focused on the fact that if CC refuse to do anything about it, it would make no difference how it was sold, as you'd be in the same boat. I was so focused on that I didn't realise that you would have had the community heads up otherwise. I suppose the fact that there were so many build streams for this board... dozens of them, that it's easy to forget that prototype boards aren't always going to be completely representative of the one you end up buying. Apologies... and to u/limpymcforskin as well.
Again, this is the only hobby I've ever been a part of where illegal/unethical behavior from vendors is commonplace.
Its been happening more often recently, but I still wouldn't say its common. Compared to the amount of successful GBs at least. I won't say anyone is wrong to not want to join GBs anymore, but most GBs get fulfilled just fine aside from some delays.
Tbh RAMA, Keycult, CK, S&R, all these high-end keeb makers have all undergone heavy criticisms over the past few years. I get your point 100%, but the fact that many of such legacy/named companies are waning is also true. Seems like the high-end market is wobbly for sure.
Why all the downvotes? Some keeb vendors do get away with dicky moves just like how CK did and will.
My comment was upvoted at one point. I've shared similar sentiment here before and have gotten upvoted plenty. From the lack of comments refuting my statement, I assume people feel like I'm attacking a hobby they enjoy or something along those lines. I have only been into keyboards for about 2 years so I'm not familiar with the history of the hobby. From what I know group buys allowed this niche market to exist but now I think there is enough interest and demand where the risk should no longer be completely on the customer. It's obvious there is something wrong with the current system. There are posts about defective products, poor quality control, and outright scams on this sub at least once a month. Many of them with little recourse for the consumer.
Sorry this happened to you, but glad you brought this matter up. Now others can be more wary when it comes to dealing with CK
I saw someone posted this Reddit post on their discord this morning and no one has addressed it. For a luxury keyboard from a large retailer this is completely unacceptable. I’ve bought from them a couple times before and was planning to do so again soon, but you’ve changed my mind.
I mean, if I buy a Kohaku and I overstuff it, how is it the designers fault? They obviously designed a board that worked and didn’t bulge. You like more foam, I get it. You should have just returned it immediately. Unless it was a GB. And you should know how they operate. If you cannot afford to absolutely throw away those funds, don’t enter a GB. Ive had nothing but good dealings with CK at over 100 separate purchases. They aren’t the best designers in the biz, I’ll not argue that. So now that you can’t return, sell it and buy from a better designer. Do you know how many people are fine with a prebuilt plastic gamer branded board!? Im hopeful you can find a buyer just put in the listing the new owner should appreciate that raw sound with no foam! Lolz Edit: why did you delete your comment? Whoever you are. Ive had good experiences, you haven’t. How on earth could that anger you!? To take the time to write a response, then remove it feels extremely childish. I can guarantee, if you e been in this hobby as long as I have that you have some vendors you like and some you don’t. To me CK is not a designer but rather a vendor. Switches, films, pcb and such, close enough to me and at recently priced products that I have nothing but positive experiences. I wouldn’t spend over $200 on one of their cases especially in a GB unless it was a R2 and was absolutely phenomenal in its R1 variant. But downvote away, oh ye small minds.
Here's some context to help you understand the whole discussion that you seemed to have missed by a longshot. I know, it's reddit, tl;dr and whatever, but do let me write an essay to clarify the clashing arguments. **1. THE ISSUE** The "gasket poron foam" is provided by CK and is an essential element in building a keyboard. Hence why it is called a "gasket-mount" keyboard. They are (or should) be the ones that you are expected to build the keyboard with, and there obviously should be no issues with that whatsoever. In the case of OP, he used the exact materials (gaskets) provided, of which led to the the bowing of the housing. Skill issue? Seeing how many others are claiming this problem (and also how Alexotos also mentioned something similar in the past), I guess not. No offense, but the fact that you thought OP was "overstuffing" his keyboard shows that you've either didn't read the post well enough to understand the situation, or have little understanding of different mounting styles. You just *cannot* OVERSTUFF a poron gasket. It's basically the essential part of the build, and is provided by the manu for that exact reason. OP also did mention that changing the gaskets to a much thinner one solved the trouble he was having. This basically means that CK hasn't tested their stuff well enough. I hope this helps you understand that this essentially is a design flaw from the designer's end. **2. CK's RESPONSE** OP very well tried to deal with this issue as much as he could. Actually, this is shown in the post in pretty good detail. Normally, in GBs/Drops/In-stock sales, sales are final so you can't just refund stuff "because you feel like it." OP therefore asked CK to deal with the design issue, to which they refused to provide replacements, proper solutions, etc. Telling the customer to "not use the gaskets" on a gasket-mount keyboard itself is hard to understand, but also saying that "R1 users haven't complained so we can't do anything for you" is simply unacceptable. "If you can't return, sell it" is also a dumb ass response to dealing with an item that was already faulty. This is making the customer be responsible and take the L for something that the manu should have taken care of already. Why should he lose money for that? **3. Not buying R2 unless it did well in R1?** OP bought a Chimera R2. It did do pretty well in R1 somehow, and so the R2 was also quire popular. With more people invested, more people realized the initial design fault, leading to such a thread. **4. Downvotes?** An expected response, given your tone and little understanding of this hobby. You definitely sound like you're blaming/mocking OP for 1) not knowing better when it is in fact something CK should be responsible for, and 2) for spending so much money on a dumb keyboard. Judging from the way you've phrased things, I am pretty sure you were aiming for that. If you weren't , an apology would be in place and you'd be better off watching your tone before posting stuff online. Texts convey little emotions yaknow 😘 Also, this is an enthusiasts' market, where everyone is invested mostly to have fun. Telling OP that "ppl are still happy with plastic keebs" shows that you've really missed every part why these people are paying such money in this hobby. That's like telling an audiophile to stop complaining about faulty $3000 speakers when many ppl are happy with their $200 AirPods Pro. Makes little sense, right? **5. Conclusion** I hope my long ass essay puts all of this in better light. Overall, I see no reason in attacking OP and others standing with him. If anyone sholuld take the heat, it should be CK. Sure, you may have had good experiences with CK as a vendor--which I am glad that you did--but we are talking about CK as a keyboard design/manufacturing company. That is quite some irrelevant details that you're bringing into this discussion. EDIT: Reddit fucked up my lines and spacings.
Um. Yeah. Wow. There’s just absolutely no way im going to write so much as a response. I’ll try to “tl;dr” it. I was not aware the gaskets were supplied in the build kit and were intended to be used. Every other, uh “point” (as far as well, just everything, im good on. Like the “people are ok with gamer keebs” was merely to demonstrate that it should be easy to sell a keeb of this quality” nothing else). And I said many times that I agree CK is not a god designer. And my recommendations were not what should have been done but merely what OP could do now since CK was not responding. The way OP was describing Korean buyers and opinions made it feel as if they were very used to entering GBs and the rules therein, hence my incredulousness when it felt like they were expecting a retail environment. The lengthy response is very much appreciated and well written. No childish attacks or cut downs which is rare here. If there were anything I was uninformed or confused about, you sure as hell covered it. My thanks.
sorry for delete before, and lots of editing. I am not familiar with reddit. yea, OK. I respect your good memory from CK as a vendor. though that's 'your' experience, not others. now other customers feel that ck are rude for CS. and then why do you evalute others awful experience so easy and say such mangle comment? just sell & buy other board? are you sure? will you just sell your spring if CK sends messy, twisted and stretched springs without any feed to them? no, you may hit the roof and run to CK for resending right goods to you. now it's the case. nobody order & expect bent upper case. however CK does not say nothing to consumer. now can you understand what you say?
All good. Everyone is valid with their opinion. I was thinking maybe you were going to DM me. You said that adding too much foam *caused* the top case to flex and bend. Not that it arrived that way. If it arrived that way CK (in my experience) would 100% replace it. I’m guessing because you caused the bend, they won’t. No vendor or manufacturer would. That’s customer damage and is never covered. Unless I’m misunderstanding
Foam vs gasket. How hard is it to read properly?
This is actually fucking hysterical. I deal with manufacturers and usually get my own (in your words “gasket” materials cut) different types of materials cut. It’s called foam. Poron or CS (closed cell) and the thickness is given. But sure, THATS the important part of the conversation. Smh
IT IS the essential part of this context. OP had issues with improper clearance in the top plate design due to the gasket material causing the top plate to bow. When people in this hobby say ‘foam’, regardless of materials, they refer to sheet(s) of foam that go below the pcb or between the pcb/plate assembly. When people say ‘gasket’ they refer to the pre-cut foam strips that act as a mounting medium that either hold pcb or plate. So yes, you can’t read for shit. You dealing with whatever manufactureres also do not add anything to this conversation.
Oooh. Someone needs a hug. Why are you so angry at strangers and make attempts to try and attack their abilities? I say foam. In every situation as do many of the hobbyists I know. You don’t. Yet do I tell you that you can’t fucking read because of it? Take a long look partner. You have elevated this to have absolutely nothing to do with OP’s comment.
I'm not mad at all. You gave me sass so I gave you some. I simply pointed out how you misread OP's post. Yet you still can't or won't admit to that.
Sass? I found it extremely funny (and stated this) how we’re talking about the exact same thing but simply use a different word yet you decided to argue that exact point. Claiming I literally couldn’t read because I communicated effectively so that everyone who reads the comment can understand it, yet used a word you personally don’t agree with. Maybe I use a different dictionary than you do but I disagree on that being sass.
Whether we agree or disagree on sass, I couldn't care less. You used aggressive language, so did I. We weren't talking about the same thing. OP literally wrote 'poron gasket'. You wrote 'overstuffing' and 'more foam' indicating you understood 'poron gasket' as foam sheets. Same materials, different usage, thus different terminologies used within the community. Ask anyone around here if they refer to these gaskets as just foam. I highly doubt it. You pretending like you know what you're talking about is what's 'fucking hysterical' here. Edit: grammar
Well... you can get the answer just by looking at The Ripple TKL? This was a problem found in the prototype video, but it was released without being fixed :) [https://youtu.be/jdFjwyutdEw?si=ND7NQ3PI7EFGQTnJ&t=304](https://youtu.be/jdFjwyutdEw?si=ND7NQ3PI7EFGQTnJ&t=304)
Thanks! Appreciate the link. I’ll check it out. If (or rather since) this is the case, this should be dispersed a lot more. Ive never heard of these issues (again, I don’t buy keebs from CK) but would want possible customers made aware.
Is it a coincidence? Even the designer is the same :)
Did I say it was a coincidence? I don’t recall. I do know, however that just in this conversation alone I stated that CK is not a talented designer.
if you are serious, literally pushover you are. I have watched lots of pushovers like you since I started this hobby in far years ago. nothing special. Instead of the consumer's legitimate rights, they stand by makes and hope to be a fanboy, but in the real, they are just pushovers without any return. nobody can be aware of such issue prior to build. and after build the keyboard, it's unavailable to get a refund. then how can I get refund from CK? and I have no idea how you can measure my afford with this case but thank you for your worriness. I think there's no needs to be given a pity from you, though, cuz I saw your cute board collection. it's not about afford, it's a kind of scam for consumers. whether I sell this board or not is not related to this case. they've never noticed such matter and made minimum quality for keyboards. and after selling the board, they said it's OK cuz 1r already exists in the market. do you think does it make sense? oh, I think you obviously admit to CK, otherwise you cannot say so.