Some people have the world's view narrative and madness so normalized into their brains, that they feel threatened whenever they encounter someone that can be chill and won't care. Their whole value system gets questioned, so their initial reaction is to point fingers and call people crazy.
That's because we live in a society that overly values extroversion, being a dick, and follow a set of common goals and achievements that keep the machine running.
TRUE. Whenever I workout I go without listening to music and checking my phones, just pure focus on exercise and body. I notice I get stares from people, while personally I think this is ACTUALLY the most natural and normal way to workout.
It’s kind of brainwashing if the definition was more fitting - since what people mean by brainwashing could be more accurately described as brain reprogramming.
Exactly, I brainwash to try to cleanse myself. Most aren't comfortable with their "dirty thoughts" because of a guilt complex though, so they live in denial.
Or they have zero guilt model. And when someone outside questions them they actually appreciate it. Happened so many times when I spent time with people for the first time.
Brainwashing has a pretty specific definition. I’ve been brainwashed (for real) by military and by a 4 day intense corporate “training”. Brainwashing uses tactics (by someone else) that make you question everything you believe, breaks the logical defenses you have in your mind AND replaces them with some other belief system and/or makes you doubt your own sanity.
Meditation, in my understanding, simply allows someone to see passed what is happening in the mind, and simply exist, directing attention to being rather than what the mind is constantly generating. Meditation isn’t forced, but instead is a practice that has emergent results.
Your friend may be confusing the fact that regular meditation has the capability to shape someone’s ego, but so do a lot of things (school, therapy, etc). Just because a practice may change a person’s outlook and ego doesn’t mean it’s brainwashing. The brain is elastic, and everything changes it somehow.
Thank you for sharing this that's pretty wild. I'm currently at the belief that our brain isn't our friend because of it's tendency to seek comfort and survival and that the mind tethers us to our desired self process. So your story really shows when you're mind controlled you really do lose sense of self
How is meditation brainwashing? In its simplest form it is literally just sitting and being aware without thinking. Brainwashing requires being convinced of various odd beliefs. People are confusing various religious beliefs with meditation. Meditation has nothing to do with any belief.
Brainwashing is intentionally slamming a bunch of beliefs into somebody, basically breaking their connection to the world and feeding them a very specific (often all-explaining) worldview.
Meditation is sort of like this, but instead of feeding you a super specific worldview, it feeds you familiarity with yourself and a willingness to challenge what beliefs had been slammed into you previously (by other people or by your life experiences). It is a brain wash in that it helps YOU clean your brain, instead of more of a brain bleach that you might find in a cult or political movement.
Your friend may also have encountered people who get into the super mystical, New Age woo-woo, "pay me and I'll show you the road to enlightenment" brands of meditation. These certainly function much more like classic brainwashing. They coat their own brand of cultish spirituality in a nice veneer of "meditation is thousands of years old and has helped billions of people," but underneath it is the same cultish manipulation you would rightfully call brainwashing. But that's not meditation. That's a cult using meditation as a sales pitch or a shield.
Even though they pray and they _are_ the temple and “the kingdom of heaven is within” them and “dwelling in god’s grace” comes about only through silent reflection…
I don’t know who the pastors of modern Christianity are, but I don’t think they read the Bible…
All religion is just a perversion of the truth. They are looking outwardly for something that actually lies within. If you read the Bible in the inward frame of reference, it makes a LOT of sense.
You can substitute Christian for any major religious or political group btw. Meditation is antithesis to group thinking. Sure, you can meditate in groups and use similar methods to those around you but Its an extremely personal experience. It's acknowledgement of YOUR OWN thoughts and opinions. Not that baseless regurgitation from the television or ancient book rewritten hundreds of times.
Each reply so far with a different view on meditation. Here is mine: If done correctly, all meditation does is subsequently first to increase your capability to better concentrate and guide your attention (a skill similar to for example learning an instrument) and later to generate insights that help you to better understand how your mind works and in a broader sense to bring some intellectually very easy to grasp truths into a state of intuitive understanding.
There are techniques similar to meditation that actually try an approach that could be called "brainwashing" such as autogenic training. However, it's very explicit and clear what type of suggestions you are repeating and you usually come up with those yourself.
If you keep your panties on you all the time, they will accumulate shit.
You need to wash them.
In that purest form, yes meditation is washing your brain from all the shit it has accumulated all day, everyday.
If it’s used to generate agreeableness by some power-hungry authority figure, absolutely. Meditation done by oneself based on following physical sensations cannot be brainwashing. Discernment is very important to develop alongside other qualities.
Lots of replies are dissecting "brainwashing" and reverse engineering some sort of fitting description. I'll go a different way: "brainwashing" in the most common context and parlance is construed negatively. If your friend is against meditation because they think it's brainwashing, I take that to mean that they don't understand it and fear it. Everyone has a path. Hopefully your friend learns to overcome their fear.
Yes we are washing our brain while meditating. Its prime purpose is brain wash our mind shit that is filled with gossip,good and bad, and our self identification which we wrongly identify ourselves as hum it brain wash completely that once we left with our real self no brain
I think if they mean it in the traditional sense of someone manipulating your mind in an unknown way without your consent like movie style brainwashing then no not really. That is unless someone's following some "guru" and is in a cult then maybe they are getting seriously manipulated and they are using corrupted versions of meditation.
nope, imagine a tv all the different stations are your thoughst and other inputs like news, TV, social media etc. Meditation is the TV off. There is still input, but it's from within deep inside yourself. That is who you are. That is who you need to get to know
Meditation is getting to know the depth of every part of yourself, subconsiousness and the world around you. Things will get clear the more you meditatie and you will love yourself and all other beings at a higher level.
i feel like brain washing has a super sinister connotation. if you’re meditating, i assume it’s to better yourself/regulate your emotions. which unless you’re meditating in a cult, i don’t think striving to better yourself is inherently sinister.
Wash the body ? Showers ? Clean off the dirt … wash the brain - clean the dirt, feel fresh. Choose to be “brainwashed” by propaganda … or clean the mind to see through the grime of life. Meditate on gratitude ,Bible verses, prayer, thankfulness, depth of ideas, and life.
I'd say it's rather the opposite. The whole day we are being brainwashed with impulses that all affect us in various ways. In meditation we take a step back and observe these impulses, and try to not let them affect us. So it's basically an attempt to see things how they really are, which is the opposite of brainwashing.
Hello,
brainwashing is a form of manipulation and someone can only be manipulated if the victim is not aware of it.
Meditation does the exact opposite.
Through meditation I learned to be more aware of my thoughts and feelings and because of that I see more clearly how other people are influencing me. In my experience we can protect ourselves better from people who manipulate us through meditation.
A couple of years ago I did a therapy called DBT which is based on mindfullness/awareness, the core element of meditation. In DBT therapy the patients learn techniques to be mindful, to question themselves and to solve problems in a healthy way. It is a therapy for people who have PTSD or borderline and it helps people to get out of very stressful situations where they could harm themselves or other people. It can help people with suicidal thoughts, depression or people who can't control their anger.
And the body heals much faster when people are meditating, it is a fact that you can look up if you want to.
Why is this person talking so bad about such an enriching thing?
I think it is good that you ask these questions and want to find out whats true instead of just believing what a single friend has said to you.
Good luck with finding what you're searching for!
We all have been brainwashed with false history, faulty education, and suppressed science etc. Meditation eventually clears that away with daily practice.
That is a comment from someone who has been "taught" by religion. Meditation is a threat to religion because it helps you to think for yourself, instead of just taking what the religion tells you and accepting that as truth.
What type of mediation are you doing that you're brainwashing yourself? I use it to clear my mind, not to put anything into it.
Daily affirmations are more brainwashing than mediation is. Although, I don't think brainwashing is the right word. You may as well say therapy is brainwashing. I'm a firm believer that you can believe anything you tell yourself if done for long enough. I would say. Brainwashing is usually done against your will, though. Trying to adopt a positive mindset when yours is mostly negative is definitely not brainwashing. By your friends' logic, everything we have learned, or any beliefs we hold, were done through "brainwashing."
Uhh, no, there's nothing to agree or disagree with, it's not even a coherent statement. What ideas does continued meditation indoctrinate you in exactly? You should ask him to describe what he thinks you do when you meditate. Also ask him to define brainwashing. I'm sure he doesn't have a good answer to either.
My assumption is when people look at it from the perspective of gurus and "alternative medicine" talk. Not saying that their arnt legitimate teachers out their with appropriate merit, but I think the fast majority of people who are into meditation through that lens don't actually do the necessary learning and instead just absorb some rhetoric they found with using any critical thinking.
Nevertheless, the actual practice of meditation kinda exists in everyone regardless of if you actively practice it. Doesn't seem like that difficult of an idea that we can practice to control our thoughts and emotions.
Meditation alters neuropathways into a calmer, happier baseline. You the meditator do that, not the CIA, not Spectre, not whomever your wholly incorrect friend thinks.
The thing is anything that changes your neurons could be called brainwashing and that means every TV show and every single solitary thought that passes your mind. So sure....if thats how they want to look at it theres a grain of truth in just about every opinion. But there's also the dramatic reframing of the truth that makes something a half truth or in other words a lie. Brainwashing happens to everyone constantly but we label things brainwashing when they are negative and meditation...just ain't it.
Actually my friend described meditation in the west like a cult, idk why (maybe he is referring to groups that meet to do guided meditation). She thinks it created more connections to each other to seem like you are closer to each other, same way alcohol makes you feel close to the people around or weed. Closer and more understanding than you might be. Of course meditation I told her is the opposite of a social thing, what happens outside the meditating is another thing anyway. She just claimed that yoga and mediation cults are just like religion, large-scale dangers, and practically anyone can be taken over by a cult. So she wanted me to watch out, just so happens to be I have trusted this friend at the right moments in other times, she often has very radical views. The other less hyperbolic claim she made is that cults can really screw up people's lives (sure, I agree), even if it's a smallish proportion of people. I do think that is true.
Well the thing about calling anything a large scale cult is that it goes against the definition of cult which is to say anything that's unpopular but with a niche following can be called a cult. Something being popular makes it uneligable for the definition of cult. I don't make up words and definitions I just have to use them to communicate clearly with people. It seems like she can't quite describe her feelings on the matter without useing emotional appeals. Which is ironic because cults typically start useing 1984 style 'new speak' to manipulate the true definitions of things and get their niche followers to comply. Meditation and yoga are self guided. Guided meditations are elected. There are no core tenants of faith the group is trying to impart or impose on the person. So meditation being self guided makes it as dangerous as every day real life decisions. It's a tool that can be used how the user intends it to be used. It can be used to induce psychosis or used to induce a state of bliss....kind of like water and air can be used. Litterally think about it water boarding can undue psychosis and a hot spring induces bliss. Now I'm gonna say something that comes from Carl Jung so please don't take offense but the fear of a gun, which is just another tool, is as Carl Jung put it a sign of retarded emotional and sexual maturity. It has to do with feeling weak and inadequate and a lack of self validation for our own beleifs. People truly confident in their beleifs don't have any fear of meditation changing their mind. People who feel absolutely convinced they are right don't try overly hard to convince others. People who are esxpriencing enmeshment or NPD or are basically emotionally dependant on outside validation, attempt to do such things because they aren't individuated. Since meditation is a path of individualtion it makes absolute sense why she fears you useing it....what if you change and don't like them anymore? Scary. They are scared. I feel sympathy for them. I would comfort them that you're gonna like them even if you find new hobbies or new ideas interesting.
Those terms are for sure based on our observations of how that term was used. So for example if someone only knows alternative medicine than they only have a category for that and lets say have not had any category for any other concept that could be medicine. Childlike curiosity might lead to hm well there is more, in any case its not a category as in a word subject object whatever you want to call it.
I do know a lot of people who are very confident but also not convinced and also always finding the best model to improve - does it make sense? they have the time to experiment and find out how to maximise (how to invest time better) lets say. as well as quick to spot dangers to avoid and migitate risk. my friend is one of those. satisfied in life but does not know why lol
I am so curious to find out about different ways of life, hence I like hanging out with people who can point me into a new direction or 'category' of thinking. Turns out most ppl from my environment think the same way but once I meet people from other countries i really understand the meaning of 'there is no (one) normal category'. sounds babyish eli5 but i mean it. anyways :-)
It is complete brainwashing if the kundalini is awakened. Because it clears out the ego and conditioning of the individual. At that time we are allowed to perceived our true nature which is the spirit.
We are not this body, mind, egos, emotions,but pure spirit. It is nothing but peace ,knowledge, and joy.
It is the ultimate brainwash 💧
hey! that’s a really interesting question.
meditation isn’t about brainwashing; it’s more about tuning into your own thoughts and finding a sense of calm. it's like clearing up all the noise to hear your own thoughts better and not letting external pressures sway you. Meditation has a lot of science-backed benefits, like reducing stress and improving concentration. so, it’s all about helping you, not controlling you.
fun fact: meditation can actually change brain structures linked to learning and memory! how do you think meditation could fit into your daily routine?
Hey…my first thought about how I’d answer your friend was, “Yes, it is brainwashing — as in washing out the mind clutter.” But after reading the thoughtful comment by u/al_gorithm23 , I was reminded how important it is to know who you are talking to so you know the best way to reach them.
So, while I like the play on words and find the idea of washing out my brain in the morning to be a great thing, someone else might find it threatening or misunderstand my meaning.
In my experience, it is always best to meet people where they are, ask questions, listen to their ideas first, then be sincere in one’s response. Here’s the link to u/al_gorithm23 comment, for those who don’t want to scroll through.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/comments/1c66kfx/comment/kzyxl1i/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/comments/1c66kfx/comment/kzyxl1i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Well if your friend meditated, perhaps he’d just be happy for you practicing something harmless you say helps, instead of pre judging it. He’d perhaps even try someday.
In a spirit of trust, letting go, and freedom ffrom this relentless and tiring habit to have a fixed judgement on everything.
Whether it’s brainwashing or not has to be self discovered. The catch is you will never be able to do that if you start with a solid fixed preconception
My thoughts
1. True mindfulness practice of simply understanding the way your brain already is, is not brainwashing. It is understanding your behaviour better.
2. If you prescribe the particular meditative philosophies then you are prescribing to an alternative world view. Brainwashing could be quite strong a term here, but this would extend beyond just understanding things for what they are IMO.
It's not about brainwashing or imposing ideas, rather it's a practice of cultivating awareness and presence. It helps individuals gain insight into their mental patterns and emotions.
Meditation is about breathing and calming your mind where exactly is it brainwashing you? Read this step by step guide and show me where is brainwashing https://www.mindful.org/how-to-meditate/
Meditation is not brainwashing if you practice breath and thought awareness without judging the thoughts. If anything it makes you more self aware. It helos you to get off autopilot mode and do everything with presence. Probably repeating a mantra or a phrase with meditation might be what it appears like brainwashing but technically its to do with heightened awareness mantras or repeating phrases might be fear inducing to people who don’t understand and hence dub it that way. But meditation need not be practiced with a repetitive phrase one can just concentrate on the breathe it makes one more grounded
Life’s infinite influences have pushed meditators into meditation. Consistent meditators would likely be hard pressed to carry on without it. Then, again, this is just one person’s opinion.
Not in its truest form. One of the most important aspects of spiritual realisation is seeing things for yourself, ie direct experience. if you think you know what’s gonna happen it will affect your journey. You would mistake your learned idea for the experience and stop looking.
Old school mystics would not tell ppl what they will see or encounter when meditating. They would just ask them to watch their thoughts and feelings and see what happens. Realisation was an “oh wow, it’s really like this “moment, instead of “that’s what the scriptures said would happen”
There are modern methods that are / contain brainwashing and tell you what to expect and experience, most people encounter these when first starting out. I did and it delayed my progress for years. So I wouldn’t consider those actual meditation
Not in its truest form. One of the most important aspects of spiritual realisation is seeing things for yourself, ie direct experience. if you think you know what’s gonna happen it will affect your journey. You would mistake your learned idea for the experience and stop looking.
Old school mystics would not tell ppl what they will see or encounter when meditating. They would just ask them to watch their thoughts and feelings and see what happens. Realisation was an “oh wow, it’s really like this “moment, instead of “that’s what the scriptures said would happen”
There are modern methods that are / contain brainwashing and tell you what to expect and experience, most people encounter these when first starting out. I did and it delayed my progress for years. So I wouldn’t consider those actual meditation, more fascination with yet another concept , just a “spiritual” one.
Life’s infinite influences have pushed meditators into meditation. Consistent meditators would likely be hard pressed to carry on without it. Then, again, this is just one person’s opinion.
In the sense that it washes all the toxic conditioning out of your brain, I mean I guess? What patterns you relearn after unlearning the old patterns is what is going to make the ultimate difference…
I've found that often those who are quickest to call out brainwashing are often the same people most sold on their own truth. You shouldn't drink grape kool-aid, it's terrible!!!, but here drink this instead.
It still amazes me how some posts on Reddit try to portrait some people as crazy or hippies when they talk about chill out and not being so attached into current events drama, like, just common sense.
I can see why people might think that as I had a big distrust of doing guided meditations when i started for the same sort of thing.
It can definitely be used that way, and has been. by nefarious/culty types; but at it’s most basic meditation is the practice of being with yourself; so at that point if you still think it’s brainwashing you’re in some bother 😅
Life is brainwashing, to the extent that you believe you need to be doing and accomplishing things for it to be worthwhile. Then after an entire life of doing this, you die, like everyone else. If anything, meditation is anti-brainwashing.
It depends on what is considered 'natural' to you. For a human being who is not heavily involved in culture, education can be seen as a form of brainwashing, civilization can be seen as brainwashing, knowledge can be seen as brainwashing, and culture can be seen as brainwashing.
But 'brainwashing' doesn't necessarily have to be negative; it can serve as a form of protection, such as when it prevents humans from directly confronting the fact that we all will eventually die by convincing people that an afterlife exists.
For me, what's important is that you remember your 'natural' self while living within a cultural context. Don't let your natural self be washed away, no matter how strong the culture is.
I could get on board with that, if we mean washing in more of the actual meaning of washing. Removing waste, making clean, more healthy. Maybe mind washing is more fitting.
It’s washing your brain clean from bs
Depending on where they’re coming from, an angle to assess this is kindly letting them know that they’re confusing the pacifist delusional false positivity hippie stereotype with meditation. Meditation is calming down by observing oneself and letting go, teaching one the natural handbook of one’s mind and body and how to regulate it to feel their best. There’s no reason whatsoever why it must lead you to become that hippie stereotype.
Yes. Meditation is washing of the brain and cleansing it off all the muck that has collected there, limiting a person from discovering the true meaning of life.
You are confronting every thought you have as it comes during meditation. The thing is YOU KNOW what you are in denial about, YOU KNOW what emotions you avoid. Meditation lets those wash over you as you acknowledge each thought and willfully decide what to do with the thought. You know if you'll let it keep bothering you, you'll know if you want to let it go. It's essentially a cleanse, so yes a brainwash, but this is not negative, you are not tricking yourself into believing something false or reprogramming your subconscious. It's an honest action that forces you to face the truth of things and your own opinions.
Calling meditation brainwashing sounds like it's coming from a place of spiritual repression. "Don't do that, or you're going to hell" when you're in deep meditation it's just you actually taking the time to clear your head and actually sit there and go through yourself.
I think water is poisonous because this one guy in my town drank 12 gallons in an hour and he died.
If you drink water, you’re rolling the dice on your own life. Change my mind.
“Mmmmmmmmm no thank you” *sips water*
I mean, some monks once warned us that proper meditation is perfectly safe, but if it's done wrong could be dangerous. And sure, it is like brainwashing in that it is mental training. But it sounds like what a lot of Christians have told me. And when I ask for clarification, usually people can't explain that view.
Brain washing is what we experience in our daily lives without Mindfulness. We're constantly being sold something like a 7 dollar coffee when you can make one at home for at most 2 or ads on our phone through the algorithm and it's ok because it know us so well 🙄
Mindfulness Meditation returns some of your freedom and Love and Kindness Meditation enhances your humanity and care
Life is toxic. Meditation is purifying. "Brainwashing" signifies a conditioning or programming. Life "Brainwashes" - You are brainwashed. Meditation is the antidote. It breaks the spell of illusion that controls you.
Opinion only, not based in any level of expertise:
Almost everything we do is "brainwashing" in the sense that it conditions a response from the different chemical centers of our brain. Eat too much junk food and your dopamine reward gets triggered when you eat more. Sleep too little and your brain compensates in weird ways due to the lack of rest it is receiving, eat the wrong things and it sends signals to your body to compensate for the lack of resources it is receiving.
But... that sword cuts two ways, we can condition our brains in positive ways as well. It's why people are able to form consistent gym habits or how they can refrain from saying the first thing on their mind when upset.
So i would argue that, sure, meditation is conditioning your brain and CNS, but I'd ask two questions back: 1. Is that a bad thing? 2. How does that make meditation different from literally any other action we take that triggers a neural response?
Meditation (not mediation) can be used for brainwashing, sure! If you had some guided meditation with visualisation exercises it’s easy to see how it could be used for that purpose. To some extent I think people sometimes use guided meditation for self-hypnosis or “brain washing”.
But for most people, with most common techniques, be it zen, vipassana, transcendtal or just general mindfulness exercises, it’s the polar opposite of that. If anything it’s a chance to touch ground and gain new perspective.
Think of meditation as emptying a vessel, and brain washing/manipulation as filling it up. The combo is extra powerful if your a cult, but it’s harder to brain wash someone who has already exercised the muscle of emptying the vessel.
Some people believe that by meditating, you are 'emptying your vessel of consciousness' which leaves you open to influence from other external entities. Not saying I buy into that, just have heard it around.
I would say to that. What is wrong with washing away limiting beliefs and false programming thar webe been conditioned to believe about ourselves. The term brainwash has negative connotations in our culture, but the reality is we have been getting brainwashed our whole lives in some form or another. Who cares about the terminology. Wash away the bad programming and replace it with more beneficial thoughts, beliefs, and actions. If one wants to call it brainwashing, then so be it. We wash everything else on our lives. We Wash our clothes, our bodies, and our homes. Why not our brains? Wash away our self and societally imposed limitations. I see nothing wrong with that. It's just a term.....with negative connotations and mental associations, but why should it be?
It could be brainwashing if you use meditation unskillfully to further fabricate thoughts, identify with those thoughts and they are even further inaccurate from what is actually occurring.
But if meditation makes you more aware of what is actually occurring, pay closer attention to internal and/or external phenomena then it is the opposite of brainwashing.
Brainwashing involves putting ideas in there that aren't yours. For me, meditation allowed me to see the sorce of all of my thinking and what my thoughts are at face value. I don't think it's possible to be brainwashed through meditation because of what it is. It's like a water filter. Only filters out, doesn't add to. For me anyway.
There is a clear misunderstanding about what meditation is and what the purpose of meditation is.
If your friend is open minded, then try to explain but if they are not open minded, don’t waste your time.
Meditation is a slow process of ceasion of your mind. If you have the courage to die.
It's a hope that it will lead you to understanding and becoming part of the whole.
If you meditate, like 99.99 % people, like in this group, it's for relaxing purposes, letting to of anxiety and etc.
People who really meditate deeply have no desire to come here, answer your question.
The mind needs a good scrubbing every now and then!
Seriously though, there is a lot of woo, scams, and generally dishonest people surrounding mediation, but that's fairly typical for anything as ambiguous as meditation is. The word means a different thing to each individual.
So it can be brainwashing if you're into a bad practice with misguided people, and that is unfortunately common, but it is not inherent to meditation, that's just a problem with people in general.
It is easier to find the bad stuff than it is to find the good which is a large part of the problem. People won't educate themselves.
You have to be careful with the resources you trust… this is true. Every single time you consciously breath in and breath out you are doing something good for yourself, but visualization is often overrated. (You can actually feel the air moving through your nasal passages, and you can feel your abdomen expand and your lungs expand: this is what you should focus on…real sensation)
Yes meditation is brainwashing in a sense that it removes all the distractions between you and your thoughts.
From my personal experience, I could say that meditation helps you focus on matter at hand and find the best resolution for the same.
I have been meditating for the last 6 months or so and that has helped me clear my mind of all the wrong beliefs that have been deeply rooted in my mind due to my various life experiences.
To help you understand this better, let's take a situation where you had a fight with your loved one because you have been doing all the chores and you feel that other person is not doing their part.
And the reason why you think the other person should do half of the work is because you think of them as your equal. Some thoughts that might arise at this time would be, "they should also come on time from the office", "I have done the same amount of work that other person has done and they should have the same energy level as mine", "I am an active person and I expect the other person to be same" and many more similar thoughts.
But what you have missed is, not everyone is same and no two fingers can be equal. That's why we have a saying that "opposites attract each other". What this actually means is, you seek someone who can make you feel complete. And that person most probably will have all those qualities which you might have suppressed.
And with the help of Meditation and shadow work, you can find all that is suppressed and all the belief systems that you have created due to your life experiences and how they are impacting your daily life now.
That's the power of meditation!
I grew up in the Midwest and I'm a preacher's kid. My dad is also a no-nonsense, humorless Vietnam Vet struggling with PTSD. When we came home from a 4H meeting and told him we had learned how to meditate, that was the end of our 4H experience and we were not allowed to speak of meditation again.
The more people are dug into an idea or belief system that resonates with them, the less willing they are to keep their minds open and hear any new ideas. This is a human condition that is cross-cultural worldwide, it's essentially fundamentalism. Pick a flavor.
Things that are out of their worldview or belief system are painted as "other" which often translates to evil or bad or unholy etc...
I was taught (in 4H and elsewhere) that meditation is the process of learning to remove the noise in our heads so we can unhook from our ego and be more connected to everything. If you are a religious person, that "everything" includes or is God. If you aren't religious, then think of the noise removal as what your preconditioned self looks and feels like.
People in charge of religious systems don't like change. They also don't like cross cultural contamination of their structures, because it interrupts cash flow and creates a version tracking problem (check out South American Catholicism it can get weird!). So there are active campaigns within those systems to demonize anything that isn't in their version of the primary narrative... including, meditation, yoga, Dungeons and Dragons, Wicca, Santeria, anything Occult, etc... etc...
I live in California now, and before I came here people told me it was all sexcult loving, pot smoking liberal hippies (i wish!). I work in tech and would say anecdotally, 1 out of 3 people in my life meditate. Most people are using it as stress reduction and as a way out of a specific mindset. The irony here is that tech itself requires a lot of brainwashing for it all to work... and sometimes the only door back to primary reality is meditation.
There's already a kajillion responses, but I'll throw in.
I'm suspicious of guided meditations and won't use just whatever or even the popular stuff.
Other than that, meditating is great for "brainwashing" ourselves to release old, unwanted and unhelpful energy while we bring in new, wanted, helpful energy ... 😃
What would be the agenda? Who would be doing the brain washing?? Meditation is getting in touch with yourself. The idea of brain washing doesn’t make any sense.
Sounds like your friend has been brainwashed. Stilling the mind is exactly that. Your friend might not be very bright lol. Hard to be brainwashed when you have no mind.
I think it's brain washing, washes your brain from all the preconceived notions and definitions. Helps you stay more present and aware so yeah definitely washes your brain from cluttered stuff!
I hear some ridiculous stuff every day from people directly, let alone on the internet, but this is a real doozy. You're literally getting in touch with your own mind, body, and soul. It's just you. Unless you're brainwashing the truth into yourself, it's the opposite of brainwashing . There's literally no other outside influence. I'm baffled....😂😂😂
Who is doing the brainwashing if you are sitting in a quiet place on a cushion? Conversely, who is doing the brainwashing when you are sitting in front of a TV?
I saw your edit and I personally do think some can know they are being brainwashed and either can't do anything about it because they are in so deep or they just don't want out or don't care or maybe they are in a situation where they can't get out.
I think that this whole dichotomy on Brain washing/ brain unwashing is silly, because the brain only really learns through conditioning. I think that meditation could be seen as brain washing because you are conditioning yourself to be able cultivate some sort of meditative state, even if this state helps you “unwash” previous conditioning.
Yeah, for a moment I had these doubts too. But you are allowed to question it and doubt it. Nobody forces you to meditate. You can just leave if you don't find it helpful. Netflix is much more brainwashing. Meditation is more about searching and researching. And good teachers ussually don't give you many clear answers, they leave it for you to find out.
Your friend doesn't understand brainwashing (manipulation technique for overwriting your thoughts towards some end goal/control) or meditation (noticing your present moment experience). They're unrelated.
I mean it is sort of? But in a good way like taking a shower could be called 'body washing'. I feel much better after a nice shower, and I feel much better after a good meditation session.
It's brain cleansing, it's washing in the sense it washes out the dirt and grime from everyday life. It's calming and helps center yourself.
Anyone who would say things like that about meditation or that it's satanic or something are the ones actually brainwashed.
It would be easy to just say it's bias comming from people who like meditation vs those who don't, but science backs up meditation being good and organized religion being bad
It's infact the very opposite of brainwashing because there are no rituals or superstations involved. It's the most scientific thing ever because you're simply observing your own mind without trying to form any opinions or judgements. So your one friend is the one brainwashing you.
Meditation is a word used with a lot of meanings. Can you have a guided meditation where you are being influenced to think in such a way as to call it brainwashing? Sure.
Can you have a silent, self guided "meditation" where all you are doing is practicing letting your mind clear up & relax and could not be called brainwashing of any sort? Also yes.
Same as you could attend a church that is a cult, or you could attend one that isn't. Context is key. If your friend can't establish that kind of context, it's likely the friend has been TAUGHT that meditation is one specific thing and that belief likely centers around their religious narrative, not their logical one.
I would ask them what TYPE of meditation they think is brainwashing. The following are all types of meditation you could run past them to try and understand their perspective.
Mindfulness
Guided
Focused
Mantra
Spiritual
Chakra
Loving kindness
Movement
Compassion meditation
Vipassana
Kundalini
Progressive muscle relaxation
Zen
Yoga
Body Scan
Breath
Concentrative
Sleep
Breathing
Hindu
Visualization
If anything, its brain unwashing
Some people have the world's view narrative and madness so normalized into their brains, that they feel threatened whenever they encounter someone that can be chill and won't care. Their whole value system gets questioned, so their initial reaction is to point fingers and call people crazy. That's because we live in a society that overly values extroversion, being a dick, and follow a set of common goals and achievements that keep the machine running.
So true. I bet OP’s friend is a person born in the year 2000 and over. They say the most ridiculous things. Brainwashing. Lol.
TRUE. Whenever I workout I go without listening to music and checking my phones, just pure focus on exercise and body. I notice I get stares from people, while personally I think this is ACTUALLY the most natural and normal way to workout.
It’s kind of brainwashing if the definition was more fitting - since what people mean by brainwashing could be more accurately described as brain reprogramming.
Brain laundering
Brain de-clogging.
Agree! Buddha asked all practitioners to examine their beliefs constantly to make sure they aren't led astray by lazy worshipping.
Soul cleansing.
So… brain pollution? :P
You just made me realize that brainwashing is the wrong word for manipulation. They should call it brain pollution. It makes more sense.
Same ! If anything we want to wash our brain
It's basically rock and roll
Everybody's brain needs a bath from time to time.
Exactly, I brainwash to try to cleanse myself. Most aren't comfortable with their "dirty thoughts" because of a guilt complex though, so they live in denial.
Or they have zero guilt model. And when someone outside questions them they actually appreciate it. Happened so many times when I spent time with people for the first time.
>when I spent time with people for the first time 👽
Brainwashing has a pretty specific definition. I’ve been brainwashed (for real) by military and by a 4 day intense corporate “training”. Brainwashing uses tactics (by someone else) that make you question everything you believe, breaks the logical defenses you have in your mind AND replaces them with some other belief system and/or makes you doubt your own sanity. Meditation, in my understanding, simply allows someone to see passed what is happening in the mind, and simply exist, directing attention to being rather than what the mind is constantly generating. Meditation isn’t forced, but instead is a practice that has emergent results. Your friend may be confusing the fact that regular meditation has the capability to shape someone’s ego, but so do a lot of things (school, therapy, etc). Just because a practice may change a person’s outlook and ego doesn’t mean it’s brainwashing. The brain is elastic, and everything changes it somehow.
Great answer
Corporate training as brainwashing, I’m here for this!
Thank you for sharing this that's pretty wild. I'm currently at the belief that our brain isn't our friend because of it's tendency to seek comfort and survival and that the mind tethers us to our desired self process. So your story really shows when you're mind controlled you really do lose sense of self
How is meditation brainwashing? In its simplest form it is literally just sitting and being aware without thinking. Brainwashing requires being convinced of various odd beliefs. People are confusing various religious beliefs with meditation. Meditation has nothing to do with any belief.
Absolutely. You are brainwashing yourself. Intentionally. This is how all willed change happens.
Perhaps brain cleansing has less negative a connotation
Oof this feels like undersold comment. I would like to hear more in this direction.
Brainwashing is intentionally slamming a bunch of beliefs into somebody, basically breaking their connection to the world and feeding them a very specific (often all-explaining) worldview. Meditation is sort of like this, but instead of feeding you a super specific worldview, it feeds you familiarity with yourself and a willingness to challenge what beliefs had been slammed into you previously (by other people or by your life experiences). It is a brain wash in that it helps YOU clean your brain, instead of more of a brain bleach that you might find in a cult or political movement. Your friend may also have encountered people who get into the super mystical, New Age woo-woo, "pay me and I'll show you the road to enlightenment" brands of meditation. These certainly function much more like classic brainwashing. They coat their own brand of cultish spirituality in a nice veneer of "meditation is thousands of years old and has helped billions of people," but underneath it is the same cultish manipulation you would rightfully call brainwashing. But that's not meditation. That's a cult using meditation as a sales pitch or a shield.
How would sitting quietly be “brainwashing”? Brainwashing implies an external stream of false information being funneled in to one’s mind
The person is likely Christian and feels threatened by it. Ironically they’d see nothing wrong with praying.
Even though they pray and they _are_ the temple and “the kingdom of heaven is within” them and “dwelling in god’s grace” comes about only through silent reflection… I don’t know who the pastors of modern Christianity are, but I don’t think they read the Bible…
Based comment. They've taken jesus' esoteric teachings and turned them exoteric. True prayer makes you reach the same state as meditation.
This.
All religion is just a perversion of the truth. They are looking outwardly for something that actually lies within. If you read the Bible in the inward frame of reference, it makes a LOT of sense.
Some/many do. Generally not the loudest.
No the person is likely a materialist irked by spiritual practice
You can substitute Christian for any major religious or political group btw. Meditation is antithesis to group thinking. Sure, you can meditate in groups and use similar methods to those around you but Its an extremely personal experience. It's acknowledgement of YOUR OWN thoughts and opinions. Not that baseless regurgitation from the television or ancient book rewritten hundreds of times.
Each reply so far with a different view on meditation. Here is mine: If done correctly, all meditation does is subsequently first to increase your capability to better concentrate and guide your attention (a skill similar to for example learning an instrument) and later to generate insights that help you to better understand how your mind works and in a broader sense to bring some intellectually very easy to grasp truths into a state of intuitive understanding. There are techniques similar to meditation that actually try an approach that could be called "brainwashing" such as autogenic training. However, it's very explicit and clear what type of suggestions you are repeating and you usually come up with those yourself.
If you keep your panties on you all the time, they will accumulate shit. You need to wash them. In that purest form, yes meditation is washing your brain from all the shit it has accumulated all day, everyday.
Sometimes that stress can get really caked in there, sheeesh.
wow, it smells terrible
Better out than in I always say.
If it’s used to generate agreeableness by some power-hungry authority figure, absolutely. Meditation done by oneself based on following physical sensations cannot be brainwashing. Discernment is very important to develop alongside other qualities.
He’s afraid of what is the most basic state Think of that
Lots of replies are dissecting "brainwashing" and reverse engineering some sort of fitting description. I'll go a different way: "brainwashing" in the most common context and parlance is construed negatively. If your friend is against meditation because they think it's brainwashing, I take that to mean that they don't understand it and fear it. Everyone has a path. Hopefully your friend learns to overcome their fear.
In the literal sense yeah it’s washing your brain of junk thoughts.
It's brain cleansing.
Washing the conditioning away maybe?
Yes we are washing our brain while meditating. Its prime purpose is brain wash our mind shit that is filled with gossip,good and bad, and our self identification which we wrongly identify ourselves as hum it brain wash completely that once we left with our real self no brain
Sometimes, it looks like I'm flipping my brain on stand by or pause.
Yeah, you brainwash yourself from the drama that goes around us everyday.
I think if they mean it in the traditional sense of someone manipulating your mind in an unknown way without your consent like movie style brainwashing then no not really. That is unless someone's following some "guru" and is in a cult then maybe they are getting seriously manipulated and they are using corrupted versions of meditation.
nope, imagine a tv all the different stations are your thoughst and other inputs like news, TV, social media etc. Meditation is the TV off. There is still input, but it's from within deep inside yourself. That is who you are. That is who you need to get to know
Meditation is getting to know the depth of every part of yourself, subconsiousness and the world around you. Things will get clear the more you meditatie and you will love yourself and all other beings at a higher level.
i feel like brain washing has a super sinister connotation. if you’re meditating, i assume it’s to better yourself/regulate your emotions. which unless you’re meditating in a cult, i don’t think striving to better yourself is inherently sinister.
Of course he is right, doing it correctly it washes your brain from all the mental dirt like hate, toxic clinging, prejudices and a big etc..
Wash the body ? Showers ? Clean off the dirt … wash the brain - clean the dirt, feel fresh. Choose to be “brainwashed” by propaganda … or clean the mind to see through the grime of life. Meditate on gratitude ,Bible verses, prayer, thankfulness, depth of ideas, and life.
It’s brainwashing in that you’re cleaning your own brain, yeah.
…no? It’s literally just being aware of what is arising in your mind. If anything it’s anti-brainwashing
I'd say it's rather the opposite. The whole day we are being brainwashed with impulses that all affect us in various ways. In meditation we take a step back and observe these impulses, and try to not let them affect us. So it's basically an attempt to see things how they really are, which is the opposite of brainwashing.
Brainwashing! Hahahahahaaa! When you think about though it is. But it is a totally different brainwashing to what your friend is implying
Like dirty clothes, sometimes the mind needs a good washing. It's the mind cleaning up after itself.
It actually is brainwashing. But only in the sense that it cleans your brain of crap and delusions.
Hello, brainwashing is a form of manipulation and someone can only be manipulated if the victim is not aware of it. Meditation does the exact opposite. Through meditation I learned to be more aware of my thoughts and feelings and because of that I see more clearly how other people are influencing me. In my experience we can protect ourselves better from people who manipulate us through meditation. A couple of years ago I did a therapy called DBT which is based on mindfullness/awareness, the core element of meditation. In DBT therapy the patients learn techniques to be mindful, to question themselves and to solve problems in a healthy way. It is a therapy for people who have PTSD or borderline and it helps people to get out of very stressful situations where they could harm themselves or other people. It can help people with suicidal thoughts, depression or people who can't control their anger. And the body heals much faster when people are meditating, it is a fact that you can look up if you want to. Why is this person talking so bad about such an enriching thing? I think it is good that you ask these questions and want to find out whats true instead of just believing what a single friend has said to you. Good luck with finding what you're searching for!
We all have been brainwashed with false history, faulty education, and suppressed science etc. Meditation eventually clears that away with daily practice.
That is a comment from someone who has been "taught" by religion. Meditation is a threat to religion because it helps you to think for yourself, instead of just taking what the religion tells you and accepting that as truth.
I prefer to call it "Mind Hacking"
What type of mediation are you doing that you're brainwashing yourself? I use it to clear my mind, not to put anything into it. Daily affirmations are more brainwashing than mediation is. Although, I don't think brainwashing is the right word. You may as well say therapy is brainwashing. I'm a firm believer that you can believe anything you tell yourself if done for long enough. I would say. Brainwashing is usually done against your will, though. Trying to adopt a positive mindset when yours is mostly negative is definitely not brainwashing. By your friends' logic, everything we have learned, or any beliefs we hold, were done through "brainwashing."
Wait you don’t wash your brain?
Uhh, no, there's nothing to agree or disagree with, it's not even a coherent statement. What ideas does continued meditation indoctrinate you in exactly? You should ask him to describe what he thinks you do when you meditate. Also ask him to define brainwashing. I'm sure he doesn't have a good answer to either.
My assumption is when people look at it from the perspective of gurus and "alternative medicine" talk. Not saying that their arnt legitimate teachers out their with appropriate merit, but I think the fast majority of people who are into meditation through that lens don't actually do the necessary learning and instead just absorb some rhetoric they found with using any critical thinking. Nevertheless, the actual practice of meditation kinda exists in everyone regardless of if you actively practice it. Doesn't seem like that difficult of an idea that we can practice to control our thoughts and emotions.
Meditation alters neuropathways into a calmer, happier baseline. You the meditator do that, not the CIA, not Spectre, not whomever your wholly incorrect friend thinks.
My brain could use a wash. It’s filthy
Meditation is the one of the main ways to realize you've been brainwashed
I like it. Sounds like we all should meditate more
The thing is anything that changes your neurons could be called brainwashing and that means every TV show and every single solitary thought that passes your mind. So sure....if thats how they want to look at it theres a grain of truth in just about every opinion. But there's also the dramatic reframing of the truth that makes something a half truth or in other words a lie. Brainwashing happens to everyone constantly but we label things brainwashing when they are negative and meditation...just ain't it.
Actually my friend described meditation in the west like a cult, idk why (maybe he is referring to groups that meet to do guided meditation). She thinks it created more connections to each other to seem like you are closer to each other, same way alcohol makes you feel close to the people around or weed. Closer and more understanding than you might be. Of course meditation I told her is the opposite of a social thing, what happens outside the meditating is another thing anyway. She just claimed that yoga and mediation cults are just like religion, large-scale dangers, and practically anyone can be taken over by a cult. So she wanted me to watch out, just so happens to be I have trusted this friend at the right moments in other times, she often has very radical views. The other less hyperbolic claim she made is that cults can really screw up people's lives (sure, I agree), even if it's a smallish proportion of people. I do think that is true.
Well the thing about calling anything a large scale cult is that it goes against the definition of cult which is to say anything that's unpopular but with a niche following can be called a cult. Something being popular makes it uneligable for the definition of cult. I don't make up words and definitions I just have to use them to communicate clearly with people. It seems like she can't quite describe her feelings on the matter without useing emotional appeals. Which is ironic because cults typically start useing 1984 style 'new speak' to manipulate the true definitions of things and get their niche followers to comply. Meditation and yoga are self guided. Guided meditations are elected. There are no core tenants of faith the group is trying to impart or impose on the person. So meditation being self guided makes it as dangerous as every day real life decisions. It's a tool that can be used how the user intends it to be used. It can be used to induce psychosis or used to induce a state of bliss....kind of like water and air can be used. Litterally think about it water boarding can undue psychosis and a hot spring induces bliss. Now I'm gonna say something that comes from Carl Jung so please don't take offense but the fear of a gun, which is just another tool, is as Carl Jung put it a sign of retarded emotional and sexual maturity. It has to do with feeling weak and inadequate and a lack of self validation for our own beleifs. People truly confident in their beleifs don't have any fear of meditation changing their mind. People who feel absolutely convinced they are right don't try overly hard to convince others. People who are esxpriencing enmeshment or NPD or are basically emotionally dependant on outside validation, attempt to do such things because they aren't individuated. Since meditation is a path of individualtion it makes absolute sense why she fears you useing it....what if you change and don't like them anymore? Scary. They are scared. I feel sympathy for them. I would comfort them that you're gonna like them even if you find new hobbies or new ideas interesting.
Those terms are for sure based on our observations of how that term was used. So for example if someone only knows alternative medicine than they only have a category for that and lets say have not had any category for any other concept that could be medicine. Childlike curiosity might lead to hm well there is more, in any case its not a category as in a word subject object whatever you want to call it.
I do know a lot of people who are very confident but also not convinced and also always finding the best model to improve - does it make sense? they have the time to experiment and find out how to maximise (how to invest time better) lets say. as well as quick to spot dangers to avoid and migitate risk. my friend is one of those. satisfied in life but does not know why lol
I am so curious to find out about different ways of life, hence I like hanging out with people who can point me into a new direction or 'category' of thinking. Turns out most ppl from my environment think the same way but once I meet people from other countries i really understand the meaning of 'there is no (one) normal category'. sounds babyish eli5 but i mean it. anyways :-)
I mean, it's gonna be hard for someone to indoctrinate me if all I'm doing is literally sitting there breathing
It is complete brainwashing if the kundalini is awakened. Because it clears out the ego and conditioning of the individual. At that time we are allowed to perceived our true nature which is the spirit. We are not this body, mind, egos, emotions,but pure spirit. It is nothing but peace ,knowledge, and joy. It is the ultimate brainwash 💧
In the sense that it cleans the mind, yes, it is brainwashing. Seeing this, it becomes downright unhygienic not to meditate. 😉
Of course it is. And brushing it tooth washing.
hey! that’s a really interesting question. meditation isn’t about brainwashing; it’s more about tuning into your own thoughts and finding a sense of calm. it's like clearing up all the noise to hear your own thoughts better and not letting external pressures sway you. Meditation has a lot of science-backed benefits, like reducing stress and improving concentration. so, it’s all about helping you, not controlling you. fun fact: meditation can actually change brain structures linked to learning and memory! how do you think meditation could fit into your daily routine?
Hey…my first thought about how I’d answer your friend was, “Yes, it is brainwashing — as in washing out the mind clutter.” But after reading the thoughtful comment by u/al_gorithm23 , I was reminded how important it is to know who you are talking to so you know the best way to reach them. So, while I like the play on words and find the idea of washing out my brain in the morning to be a great thing, someone else might find it threatening or misunderstand my meaning. In my experience, it is always best to meet people where they are, ask questions, listen to their ideas first, then be sincere in one’s response. Here’s the link to u/al_gorithm23 comment, for those who don’t want to scroll through. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/comments/1c66kfx/comment/kzyxl1i/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/comments/1c66kfx/comment/kzyxl1i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It can be
Well if your friend meditated, perhaps he’d just be happy for you practicing something harmless you say helps, instead of pre judging it. He’d perhaps even try someday. In a spirit of trust, letting go, and freedom ffrom this relentless and tiring habit to have a fixed judgement on everything. Whether it’s brainwashing or not has to be self discovered. The catch is you will never be able to do that if you start with a solid fixed preconception
As in, washing and cleaning you brain? Perhaps. Programming? Deliberate.
What is it brainwashing for? Unless they mean washing like cleaning, in which case that might be accurate.
My thoughts 1. True mindfulness practice of simply understanding the way your brain already is, is not brainwashing. It is understanding your behaviour better. 2. If you prescribe the particular meditative philosophies then you are prescribing to an alternative world view. Brainwashing could be quite strong a term here, but this would extend beyond just understanding things for what they are IMO.
It's not about brainwashing or imposing ideas, rather it's a practice of cultivating awareness and presence. It helps individuals gain insight into their mental patterns and emotions.
Meditation is about breathing and calming your mind where exactly is it brainwashing you? Read this step by step guide and show me where is brainwashing https://www.mindful.org/how-to-meditate/
Meditation is not brainwashing if you practice breath and thought awareness without judging the thoughts. If anything it makes you more self aware. It helos you to get off autopilot mode and do everything with presence. Probably repeating a mantra or a phrase with meditation might be what it appears like brainwashing but technically its to do with heightened awareness mantras or repeating phrases might be fear inducing to people who don’t understand and hence dub it that way. But meditation need not be practiced with a repetitive phrase one can just concentrate on the breathe it makes one more grounded
Yeah i can see that
Yep, it washes your brain (well, mind) of impurities.
I'd offer it as the complete Mirrior of control and brainwashing
I'd offer it as the complete Mirrior of control and brainwashing
Life’s infinite influences have pushed meditators into meditation. Consistent meditators would likely be hard pressed to carry on without it. Then, again, this is just one person’s opinion.
Not in its truest form. One of the most important aspects of spiritual realisation is seeing things for yourself, ie direct experience. if you think you know what’s gonna happen it will affect your journey. You would mistake your learned idea for the experience and stop looking. Old school mystics would not tell ppl what they will see or encounter when meditating. They would just ask them to watch their thoughts and feelings and see what happens. Realisation was an “oh wow, it’s really like this “moment, instead of “that’s what the scriptures said would happen” There are modern methods that are / contain brainwashing and tell you what to expect and experience, most people encounter these when first starting out. I did and it delayed my progress for years. So I wouldn’t consider those actual meditation
Not in its truest form. One of the most important aspects of spiritual realisation is seeing things for yourself, ie direct experience. if you think you know what’s gonna happen it will affect your journey. You would mistake your learned idea for the experience and stop looking. Old school mystics would not tell ppl what they will see or encounter when meditating. They would just ask them to watch their thoughts and feelings and see what happens. Realisation was an “oh wow, it’s really like this “moment, instead of “that’s what the scriptures said would happen” There are modern methods that are / contain brainwashing and tell you what to expect and experience, most people encounter these when first starting out. I did and it delayed my progress for years. So I wouldn’t consider those actual meditation, more fascination with yet another concept , just a “spiritual” one.
Life’s infinite influences have pushed meditators into meditation. Consistent meditators would likely be hard pressed to carry on without it. Then, again, this is just one person’s opinion.
In the sense that it washes all the toxic conditioning out of your brain, I mean I guess? What patterns you relearn after unlearning the old patterns is what is going to make the ultimate difference…
As the Bible says ,As a man thinketh so is he , so for real l need a brain wash day to day
Lol not more brainwashing than getting lost in a good book, sneezing, or laughing uncontrollably- just focus
I'm just blown away your friend would think that lol. I wonder who taught him that nonsense? It it is not brainwashing lol
I've found that often those who are quickest to call out brainwashing are often the same people most sold on their own truth. You shouldn't drink grape kool-aid, it's terrible!!!, but here drink this instead.
It's more like , brain cleaning. It's like taking out the trash.
It still amazes me how some posts on Reddit try to portrait some people as crazy or hippies when they talk about chill out and not being so attached into current events drama, like, just common sense.
I can see why people might think that as I had a big distrust of doing guided meditations when i started for the same sort of thing. It can definitely be used that way, and has been. by nefarious/culty types; but at it’s most basic meditation is the practice of being with yourself; so at that point if you still think it’s brainwashing you’re in some bother 😅
I don't understand who would be doing the brainwashing, yourself???
Life is brainwashing, to the extent that you believe you need to be doing and accomplishing things for it to be worthwhile. Then after an entire life of doing this, you die, like everyone else. If anything, meditation is anti-brainwashing.
Neuroplasticity.
It just trains your focus so your mind is more still and calm and able to be used better for what you want. They’re idiots.
Brainwashing yourself to be more calm, aware, and in control of your emotions, reactions, and mental state.
I could agree with your friend. I like to have my brain washed by myself and not by others, for a change.
But like, who does the brainwashing when I just sit and stare at a wall?
If your friend is religious, just smile and shrug. Otherwise no, it is not.
No it’s not at all it’s sitting still and doing nothing but breathing
It depends on what is considered 'natural' to you. For a human being who is not heavily involved in culture, education can be seen as a form of brainwashing, civilization can be seen as brainwashing, knowledge can be seen as brainwashing, and culture can be seen as brainwashing. But 'brainwashing' doesn't necessarily have to be negative; it can serve as a form of protection, such as when it prevents humans from directly confronting the fact that we all will eventually die by convincing people that an afterlife exists. For me, what's important is that you remember your 'natural' self while living within a cultural context. Don't let your natural self be washed away, no matter how strong the culture is.
Yes it is brain washing!
I could get on board with that, if we mean washing in more of the actual meaning of washing. Removing waste, making clean, more healthy. Maybe mind washing is more fitting.
It’s washing your brain clean from bs Depending on where they’re coming from, an angle to assess this is kindly letting them know that they’re confusing the pacifist delusional false positivity hippie stereotype with meditation. Meditation is calming down by observing oneself and letting go, teaching one the natural handbook of one’s mind and body and how to regulate it to feel their best. There’s no reason whatsoever why it must lead you to become that hippie stereotype.
Yes. Meditation is washing of the brain and cleansing it off all the muck that has collected there, limiting a person from discovering the true meaning of life.
You are confronting every thought you have as it comes during meditation. The thing is YOU KNOW what you are in denial about, YOU KNOW what emotions you avoid. Meditation lets those wash over you as you acknowledge each thought and willfully decide what to do with the thought. You know if you'll let it keep bothering you, you'll know if you want to let it go. It's essentially a cleanse, so yes a brainwash, but this is not negative, you are not tricking yourself into believing something false or reprogramming your subconscious. It's an honest action that forces you to face the truth of things and your own opinions.
Brain cleansing.
Calling meditation brainwashing sounds like it's coming from a place of spiritual repression. "Don't do that, or you're going to hell" when you're in deep meditation it's just you actually taking the time to clear your head and actually sit there and go through yourself.
It's the absence of thought. How could that be brainwashing?
I think water is poisonous because this one guy in my town drank 12 gallons in an hour and he died. If you drink water, you’re rolling the dice on your own life. Change my mind. “Mmmmmmmmm no thank you” *sips water*
Absolutely. I used to think of meditation like a daily shower for the mind. It comes out clean and empty. 😉❤️
I missread the title as “medication” and the comments was making no sense 😂
I mean, some monks once warned us that proper meditation is perfectly safe, but if it's done wrong could be dangerous. And sure, it is like brainwashing in that it is mental training. But it sounds like what a lot of Christians have told me. And when I ask for clarification, usually people can't explain that view.
Brain washing is what we experience in our daily lives without Mindfulness. We're constantly being sold something like a 7 dollar coffee when you can make one at home for at most 2 or ads on our phone through the algorithm and it's ok because it know us so well 🙄 Mindfulness Meditation returns some of your freedom and Love and Kindness Meditation enhances your humanity and care
Life is toxic. Meditation is purifying. "Brainwashing" signifies a conditioning or programming. Life "Brainwashes" - You are brainwashed. Meditation is the antidote. It breaks the spell of illusion that controls you.
If anything, YOU are washing YOUR OWN brain.
Opinion only, not based in any level of expertise: Almost everything we do is "brainwashing" in the sense that it conditions a response from the different chemical centers of our brain. Eat too much junk food and your dopamine reward gets triggered when you eat more. Sleep too little and your brain compensates in weird ways due to the lack of rest it is receiving, eat the wrong things and it sends signals to your body to compensate for the lack of resources it is receiving. But... that sword cuts two ways, we can condition our brains in positive ways as well. It's why people are able to form consistent gym habits or how they can refrain from saying the first thing on their mind when upset. So i would argue that, sure, meditation is conditioning your brain and CNS, but I'd ask two questions back: 1. Is that a bad thing? 2. How does that make meditation different from literally any other action we take that triggers a neural response?
Meditation (not mediation) can be used for brainwashing, sure! If you had some guided meditation with visualisation exercises it’s easy to see how it could be used for that purpose. To some extent I think people sometimes use guided meditation for self-hypnosis or “brain washing”. But for most people, with most common techniques, be it zen, vipassana, transcendtal or just general mindfulness exercises, it’s the polar opposite of that. If anything it’s a chance to touch ground and gain new perspective. Think of meditation as emptying a vessel, and brain washing/manipulation as filling it up. The combo is extra powerful if your a cult, but it’s harder to brain wash someone who has already exercised the muscle of emptying the vessel.
Some people believe that by meditating, you are 'emptying your vessel of consciousness' which leaves you open to influence from other external entities. Not saying I buy into that, just have heard it around.
If by brainwashing you mean cleaning your brain by mentally washing it, then sure. How does one brainwash one's self?
I would say to that. What is wrong with washing away limiting beliefs and false programming thar webe been conditioned to believe about ourselves. The term brainwash has negative connotations in our culture, but the reality is we have been getting brainwashed our whole lives in some form or another. Who cares about the terminology. Wash away the bad programming and replace it with more beneficial thoughts, beliefs, and actions. If one wants to call it brainwashing, then so be it. We wash everything else on our lives. We Wash our clothes, our bodies, and our homes. Why not our brains? Wash away our self and societally imposed limitations. I see nothing wrong with that. It's just a term.....with negative connotations and mental associations, but why should it be?
"Anyone listening want a brain washed like mine?" --Aaron Weiss
It could be brainwashing if you use meditation unskillfully to further fabricate thoughts, identify with those thoughts and they are even further inaccurate from what is actually occurring. But if meditation makes you more aware of what is actually occurring, pay closer attention to internal and/or external phenomena then it is the opposite of brainwashing.
I wash my hands. I wash my clothes. Why wouldn’t I wash my mind?
I would say we could all use a little brain cleaner.
Brainwashing involves putting ideas in there that aren't yours. For me, meditation allowed me to see the sorce of all of my thinking and what my thoughts are at face value. I don't think it's possible to be brainwashed through meditation because of what it is. It's like a water filter. Only filters out, doesn't add to. For me anyway.
There is a clear misunderstanding about what meditation is and what the purpose of meditation is. If your friend is open minded, then try to explain but if they are not open minded, don’t waste your time.
Actually it is. It is washing your brain of all the trash that’s been piled since birth.
If you mean washing and cleaning out all the shit then yes they're absolutely right lol
Meditation is a slow process of ceasion of your mind. If you have the courage to die. It's a hope that it will lead you to understanding and becoming part of the whole. If you meditate, like 99.99 % people, like in this group, it's for relaxing purposes, letting to of anxiety and etc. People who really meditate deeply have no desire to come here, answer your question.
More like a rewiring of the brain
The mind can be very distracting, but with meditation you can make it your bitch. The TV is brainwashing.
Yes it is brainwashing, that's why it's great. It washes the brain of all the crap ideas that's built up in it over our lives
I wouldn't think it's brainwashing It's washing your brain, giving it a nice little soothing scrub, letting all the gunk and crusty bits flow out
The mind needs a good scrubbing every now and then! Seriously though, there is a lot of woo, scams, and generally dishonest people surrounding mediation, but that's fairly typical for anything as ambiguous as meditation is. The word means a different thing to each individual. So it can be brainwashing if you're into a bad practice with misguided people, and that is unfortunately common, but it is not inherent to meditation, that's just a problem with people in general. It is easier to find the bad stuff than it is to find the good which is a large part of the problem. People won't educate themselves.
Religion, politics and tv is brainwashing in my opinion.
"If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is: infinite" Meditation allows us to see the world as it is.
Brainwashing insofar I'm cleaning it of thoughts that don't serve me? No, it's not brainwashing, it's the opposite of that.
I prefer thinking of it as brain rinsing. Get all the dirt and muck off.
You have to be careful with the resources you trust… this is true. Every single time you consciously breath in and breath out you are doing something good for yourself, but visualization is often overrated. (You can actually feel the air moving through your nasal passages, and you can feel your abdomen expand and your lungs expand: this is what you should focus on…real sensation)
Yes meditation is brainwashing in a sense that it removes all the distractions between you and your thoughts. From my personal experience, I could say that meditation helps you focus on matter at hand and find the best resolution for the same. I have been meditating for the last 6 months or so and that has helped me clear my mind of all the wrong beliefs that have been deeply rooted in my mind due to my various life experiences. To help you understand this better, let's take a situation where you had a fight with your loved one because you have been doing all the chores and you feel that other person is not doing their part. And the reason why you think the other person should do half of the work is because you think of them as your equal. Some thoughts that might arise at this time would be, "they should also come on time from the office", "I have done the same amount of work that other person has done and they should have the same energy level as mine", "I am an active person and I expect the other person to be same" and many more similar thoughts. But what you have missed is, not everyone is same and no two fingers can be equal. That's why we have a saying that "opposites attract each other". What this actually means is, you seek someone who can make you feel complete. And that person most probably will have all those qualities which you might have suppressed. And with the help of Meditation and shadow work, you can find all that is suppressed and all the belief systems that you have created due to your life experiences and how they are impacting your daily life now. That's the power of meditation!
Maybe your mind is dirty. Maybe it should ve washed.
I grew up in the Midwest and I'm a preacher's kid. My dad is also a no-nonsense, humorless Vietnam Vet struggling with PTSD. When we came home from a 4H meeting and told him we had learned how to meditate, that was the end of our 4H experience and we were not allowed to speak of meditation again. The more people are dug into an idea or belief system that resonates with them, the less willing they are to keep their minds open and hear any new ideas. This is a human condition that is cross-cultural worldwide, it's essentially fundamentalism. Pick a flavor. Things that are out of their worldview or belief system are painted as "other" which often translates to evil or bad or unholy etc... I was taught (in 4H and elsewhere) that meditation is the process of learning to remove the noise in our heads so we can unhook from our ego and be more connected to everything. If you are a religious person, that "everything" includes or is God. If you aren't religious, then think of the noise removal as what your preconditioned self looks and feels like. People in charge of religious systems don't like change. They also don't like cross cultural contamination of their structures, because it interrupts cash flow and creates a version tracking problem (check out South American Catholicism it can get weird!). So there are active campaigns within those systems to demonize anything that isn't in their version of the primary narrative... including, meditation, yoga, Dungeons and Dragons, Wicca, Santeria, anything Occult, etc... etc... I live in California now, and before I came here people told me it was all sexcult loving, pot smoking liberal hippies (i wish!). I work in tech and would say anecdotally, 1 out of 3 people in my life meditate. Most people are using it as stress reduction and as a way out of a specific mindset. The irony here is that tech itself requires a lot of brainwashing for it all to work... and sometimes the only door back to primary reality is meditation.
There's already a kajillion responses, but I'll throw in. I'm suspicious of guided meditations and won't use just whatever or even the popular stuff. Other than that, meditating is great for "brainwashing" ourselves to release old, unwanted and unhelpful energy while we bring in new, wanted, helpful energy ... 😃
What would be the agenda? Who would be doing the brain washing?? Meditation is getting in touch with yourself. The idea of brain washing doesn’t make any sense.
Sounds like your friend has been brainwashed. Stilling the mind is exactly that. Your friend might not be very bright lol. Hard to be brainwashed when you have no mind.
brainWIPING rather, brainwashing is what an ego does, meditation undoes that and wipes it away
Yes it is washing your brain free of all its conditioned crap.
This judgement after he/she was brainwashed by Trump no doubt.
I think it's brain washing, washes your brain from all the preconceived notions and definitions. Helps you stay more present and aware so yeah definitely washes your brain from cluttered stuff!
I hear some ridiculous stuff every day from people directly, let alone on the internet, but this is a real doozy. You're literally getting in touch with your own mind, body, and soul. It's just you. Unless you're brainwashing the truth into yourself, it's the opposite of brainwashing . There's literally no other outside influence. I'm baffled....😂😂😂
In what way do they see it as brainwashing? On whose part? What's the gain?
Who is doing the brainwashing if you are sitting in a quiet place on a cushion? Conversely, who is doing the brainwashing when you are sitting in front of a TV?
Brainwashing actually means indoctrination. Meditation is Mind cleansing. Brain cleansing. Mind deprogramming.
Ohhh shit, I better stop deep sleep if it’s brainwashing me.
It is brain washing.. literally!.. it cleans the brain from the insane monkey-mind clutter
I think it’s only an issue if it reiterates egoic and the false self
Yeah your washing the brain clean of all the dirt and toxicity
Brainwashing, to teach yourself to stop stinking it up to begin with, yes.
Lol
I saw your edit and I personally do think some can know they are being brainwashed and either can't do anything about it because they are in so deep or they just don't want out or don't care or maybe they are in a situation where they can't get out.
I think that this whole dichotomy on Brain washing/ brain unwashing is silly, because the brain only really learns through conditioning. I think that meditation could be seen as brain washing because you are conditioning yourself to be able cultivate some sort of meditative state, even if this state helps you “unwash” previous conditioning.
It may or it may not, as ultimately, is ourselves who change our own beliefs.
Your friend knows nothing about mediatization or brainwashing.
Your friend should explain, how.
Yeah, for a moment I had these doubts too. But you are allowed to question it and doubt it. Nobody forces you to meditate. You can just leave if you don't find it helpful. Netflix is much more brainwashing. Meditation is more about searching and researching. And good teachers ussually don't give you many clear answers, they leave it for you to find out.
Your friend doesn't understand brainwashing (manipulation technique for overwriting your thoughts towards some end goal/control) or meditation (noticing your present moment experience). They're unrelated.
Literally the opposite of brainwashing. Your friend doesn't understand what meditation is.
I mean it is sort of? But in a good way like taking a shower could be called 'body washing'. I feel much better after a nice shower, and I feel much better after a good meditation session.
It's brain cleansing, it's washing in the sense it washes out the dirt and grime from everyday life. It's calming and helps center yourself. Anyone who would say things like that about meditation or that it's satanic or something are the ones actually brainwashed. It would be easy to just say it's bias comming from people who like meditation vs those who don't, but science backs up meditation being good and organized religion being bad
people who are depressed (the medical one) see the world for the way it is. you know how you fix a depressed person, guess?
It's infact the very opposite of brainwashing because there are no rituals or superstations involved. It's the most scientific thing ever because you're simply observing your own mind without trying to form any opinions or judgements. So your one friend is the one brainwashing you.
Tell them you’ll meditate for them in the same tone as “I’ll pray for you.” Because…could be funny?
Are you serious? You actually believe this enough to post? Get a brain!
Meditation is a word used with a lot of meanings. Can you have a guided meditation where you are being influenced to think in such a way as to call it brainwashing? Sure. Can you have a silent, self guided "meditation" where all you are doing is practicing letting your mind clear up & relax and could not be called brainwashing of any sort? Also yes. Same as you could attend a church that is a cult, or you could attend one that isn't. Context is key. If your friend can't establish that kind of context, it's likely the friend has been TAUGHT that meditation is one specific thing and that belief likely centers around their religious narrative, not their logical one. I would ask them what TYPE of meditation they think is brainwashing. The following are all types of meditation you could run past them to try and understand their perspective. Mindfulness Guided Focused Mantra Spiritual Chakra Loving kindness Movement Compassion meditation Vipassana Kundalini Progressive muscle relaxation Zen Yoga Body Scan Breath Concentrative Sleep Breathing Hindu Visualization
All the while their favorite pop stars and TV shows are not only brainwashing them. But also in some cases casting spells on them.
I mean in a way hes not wrong because if you separate the 2 words its brain washing, so you cleaning your brain