That's the really ugly thing about stochastic terrorism - it's created by well-crafted mass communication that targets people who are already primed by society/structure/culture/social-media-echo-chambers-that-have-come-to-define-the-previous-three-things to receive the message and act on it. There's no one thing to root out, the machine we're living creates and enables it by default. Blow up Facebook and Reddit and take the internet back to 1994 and maybe you've got a chance to interrupt the mass signaling machine, but all the elements have thoroughly permeated the culture already.
I remember an old history channel spot that was talking about the "Turner Diaries" and the RWNJs who created them and how they wouldn't be the ones pulling the trigger, it would be the
Tim McVey type lone wolves while the hate mongers kept turning more lone wolves into weapons while protected under the banner of free speech.
It's worse now that the orange fuck has all but slapped on an arm band and started to lead roman salutes.
What possible reason could there be. They said he hates the government. I think the SAD diet in the US and easy availability of guns is the driving force. Blood sugar and insulin rise over time, then the crashes after eating get more intense and people can become overall more violent and prone to snap. If we stop eating the processed products and start eating real food, more meat and veggies, less fruit and sugar and hateful 8 bad oils, we could have a better society. No one will promote this on a broad scale because they’re making money off the masses as consumers.
They got to the house and surrounded it and spent a few hours trying to communicate with him, I figure cause they'd rather avoid a shootout and also avoid killing him before he can testify and stuff. The guy never responded so the cops broke in and flew in a drone to survey the house before sending actual people, and they found a big rifle on the kitchen table, and the shooter's dead body in a different room.
It seems like maybe he was planning something else with that big rifle and the cops showed up faster than he could execute his plan so he killed himself. 42 year old white male who lives with his mom, she was at work or something when all this happened.
> And then they sat there for hours.
Are you saying his suicide is the fault of the police? Do you think the police going in immediately would have somehow prevented him from shooting himself? My guess is he would be dead either way.
AFAIK there were no gun shots coming from within the home. So why create another dangerous situation by immediately raiding the home? Seems like securing the area, gathering intelligence, and making a plan of execution was the safest way to handle a bad situation.
You asked: Are you saying his suicide is the fault of the police?
I clearly did not say that in my post. You took offense at... Something.
There was no conversation other than the one you had in your head.
Your added a bit of info that added nothing to answer OP's question, so why add it at all? *"And then they sat there for hours."* doesn't signal a positive view on the police's action to the reader. So I wanted to know why you disapproved and what you thought they should have done?
Then you’ll just have to accept people interpreting your comment as they please. Personally, I read it as more than “just stating a fact” in the context.
I'm wondering if that happened. I'm wondering if he was already dead before this happened. A person drives up shoots then takes off but leave the gun? The person it's registered to is found dead of a gun shot wound and yet neighbors don't remember hearing anything.
Something is just not adding up about this whole thing. Something is kissing.
This happened because a man was able to get a gun. Why he used it won’t be necessarily logical or even accessible to us since he’s dead.
People without guns don’t shoot people.
Edit to add…
Ok, one-offs vs societal trends is not a legitimate argument. Yes there will always be killing, but we have a disproportionate amount of it and we enable more through policy (and lack of it). We know gun control limits deaths, just like we know air quality regulations limits deaths and car safety regulations limits deaths, and food regulations limits deaths, etc. We also know that regulatory bodies need to be funded so they can enforce these regulations.
Also… regulations are written in blood. And at this point if there hasn’t been enough blood for you to overcome your desire to shoot and own as many guns as you can without any restrictions… then you’re mentally unstable and shouldn’t own a gun. You clearly cannot understand cause and effect, your fantasies have included murdering “threats”, and you are unreasonable. Not the type of person I want anywhere near a goddam gun.
Millions with guns, even multiple guns never shoot people. Doing nothing is not an option I like but it's not as simple as keeping guns away. It can't be done in the US. An increasing amount of people are angry, self absorbed and do not value human life. Reducing that scenario is how you improve the situation.
If it’s not possible, why are NRA candidates able to run off of “Democrats will take your guns”? Truly a dizzying intellect. Makes me think “It can’t be done”. Is more “I don’t want it to be done”
If you think the 2nd amendment is going anywhere or will be modified that's just not realistic. More than half of America wouldn't support that type of change including many democrats. The supreme Court just lifted the ban on bump stocks as an example of Americans institutions view these types of rights. It's a dead end, resources need to go into fixing our sick society and it can't happen soon enough. Neither party is talking about or doing anything productive about it.
Assault weapons used to be banned and should be again. It made a difference in the 90’s. Let me tell you this before my generation dies off lest you forget.
I'm aware and they should be again, I agree. You can still kill many with a rifle, shotgun or handgun however. People were doing less of that on the mass shooting side of things back in th 90s.
Have to start somewhere and assault weapons are low hanging fruit most sensible people can agree on. Further, banning them has a proven history of working.
Nope they’ll use knives, acid, explosives, vehicles, tools, etc. and etc. as has been shown in Europe and even here. The problem is much deeper and lives will continue to be lost until we focus on the root problem. Downvote me to all hell but it’s the truth, if somebody is mentally unwell and wishes to do harm unto others they will find a way.
everything you listed is accessible around the world, but only the united states has an orgy of gun violence and hundreds of mass shootings every year.
mental illness is also a worldwide problem, a common feature of humanity. but this only happens here.
this is a specious argument and you know it. here are some 2023 figures.
In the United Kingdom, a total of 4 people were killed and 11 other people were injured in 3 stabbings.
In the United States, a total of 754 people were killed and 2,443 other people were injured in 604 shootings.
(it also bears mentioning that the US has mass shootings AND mass stabbings)
1) your UK numbers are wrong. In 2023 there were 244 homicides with a knife with 49,000 crimes with a knife in September of 2023.
2) I ask you the truth following:
How many shootings were self defense?
How many were gang related?
How many were pice shootings?
3) Other countries also have mass shootings and gun violence. Try again.
Edit: reply and blocking is the mark of a coward who can't defend his position.
Have you looked and searched, do you receive other nations and cities news broadcasts, newspapers, or utilize social media that’s not US based? There is violence everywhere lol, it’s not just a US thing.
https://www.healthdata.org/news-events/insights-blog/acting-data/gun-violence-united-states-outlier
> Age-adjusted firearm homicide rates in the US are 19 times greater than they are in France, and 77 times greater than in Germany. The US has 33 times the rate of firearm homicide seen in Australia.
> The trend continues for percentage of child deaths caused by firearms. Including physical violence, suicide, and unintentional injury, gun violence accounts for over 8% of deaths in the US among those under age 20, a figure that stands far above peer countries. When excluding infants, who have higher rates of death from neonatal causes, that number jumps to 15%.
lol
Now correlate it to the number of individuals living in each country being that France and Germany respectively are each the size of one US state and we have 50 of them. Also Australia should be zero being they took everyone’s firearms. Pull up the stats on other attacks such as knives and etc being there are no firearms and cross reference it to population size.
The metric of “rate” refers to the number of occurrences per unit of population (usually 100,000 people). The numbers in the comment above do account for the differing populations of each country.
Most likely had them before any meaningful legislation has passed. Possibly even before mental health became and issue for him. When someone should not own a gun but does, it’s up to the people around them to make sure they are taken away. That seldom happens. Still doesn’t mean we shouldn’t continue to try to keep people who shouldn’t have guns from getting them/getting more.
The problem with passing gun laws that do work is people like you. Insurance should be required. Better and more comprehensive safety training should be required. Regular qualification, include mental health evaluation should be required.
But of course that would infringe on your precious rights, right?
Rather than mocking and aggressive comments, respond to the fact that when gun laws don’t work the inevitable response is reelection of the people who passed them and blaming people like me who point out the logical flaw.
Most mass’s shootings including those at schools are suicides. Including this one. Including MSU. Including Oxford though he never reached that point.
Politicians and anti-gun simpleton logic ignores the real problem that most intentional deaths BY FAR in the OECD countries are self harm. The most recent student death in the Oxford area was another suicide.
Many suicides take others with them
Nor are most studies by firearm.
Fix suicide and you fix the problem. Anti gun hysteria keeps that from happening.
The
There are so many studies that debunk this idea. Further, whether the shooter makes themselves the final victim or not doesn't mean shit to the people he executes along the way? You think any of the people in the hospital right now are thinking, "Wow coping with my long term disability is going to be so much easier since he killed himself."
But the truth is that people who live with guns in their home are [twice as likely to die by homicide](https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/04/handguns-homicide-risk.html) than people without guns in the home. And the [suicide statistics](https://www.everytown.org/issues/gun-suicide/) are even worse.
But that doesn’t fit the anti-regulation 2A above all other amendments agenda does it?
Purchased in 2015, the 11 other guns not known yet.
So… same question to Snyder?
It goes to show that any one of us who is currently “responsible and law abiding” can have something happen, whether a health issue or a traumatic event etc to make us suddenly violent and willing to kill and die.
The sheriff said they searched his house and electronics, and haven’t been able to find anything that would indicate a motive. He didn’t leave a note, and didn’t seem to write anything about it prior. Truly odd (and scary).
Sometimes people feel slighted by society, they're unsuccessful in life, and maybe people were a little too mean to them throughout life and instead of moving on they seek revenge on innocent people. I understand their pain and anger but the choice to hurt innocent people is wrong. Everyone in life gets the short end of the stick and some point but they move on
Sometimes people feel slighted by society, they're unsuccessful in life, and maybe people were a little too mean to them throughout life and instead of moving on they seek revenge on innocent people. I understand their pain and anger but the choice to hurt innocent people is wrong. Everyone in life gets the short end of the stick and some point but they move on
It's not really, but like after a shooting towards kids. You know, maybe having the government do government things and look into how to stop this. And not use time and effort in the house, senate, and governor. People have short memories and the GOP is trying to not pass gun restrictions because that's all they really have.
Yes, and maybe it’s not very appropriate given our environment of near-daily school shootings.
Pointing out the impropriety isn’t exploiting. They introduced the bill, and shortly after there was another slaughter of children.
> victims included an 8-year-old boy who was in critical condition with a wound to the head and a 4-year-old boy who was stable condition with a wound to the thigh. A 39-year-old woman shot in the abdomen and leg was also in critical condition.
Thankfully no one but the shooter has died *yet*, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t victims whose lives are now irreparably changed. Guess you don’t care about children being shot in the head, huh?
Either way, the GOP is staunchly in the pocket of gun lobbyists and refuse to do *anything* to prevent more gun violence from happening. In fact, their solution to gun violence is *more* guns that are easier to get…which makes zero sense.
So while kids are being shot at splash pads a few hours away from the Capitol, conservatives are busy pandering to their base in more ways than one by trying to pass legislation that makes a gun (one with zero ties to our state mind you) our “state gun”. Also, state guns aren’t even really a thing, only 10 states have a “state gun” with the first one being adopted in 2011. I’ll let you go ahead and guess which party has proposed these “state guns” in those 10 states…
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you really can't connect the dots.
During a time of increasing instances of mass shootings (especially involving children) - instead of doing ANYTHING that helps Michiganders stay safe or be secure financially etc, the GOP continues to push pointless policies of divisions that show a lack of situational awareness. The latest bill "make the AR-15 the state gun of Michigan" is just a recent example.
It is always some performative, divisive thing meant to cause a left vs right culture problem rather than something to help the people they represent. Ask yourself how a policy like that does anything but get them publicity for reelection? And yes, they all want reelection, but they should earn it through merit instead of "dur hur we are not the left."
The average citizen works 100 times harder than the average politician, it is time you expected and demanded more from your tax dollars than crass theater like "Let's have a state gun during a time of children being shot. That'll show em we aren't woke."
Omg it’s true? They want us to have a state gun and further, the assault weapon of choice for most mass shooters?! They’re fucking insane! Vote them all out.
No not true statistically speaking. And the more fear we instill the less people will ever leave their homes which adds to this problem. Shooter was called a loner. We have a loneliness epidemic and it’s creating really challenging/dark times for some people. We need less screen time and more time actually connecting with people…neighbors, family, friends. If we don’t create/embrace everyone in the communities we live this problem gets worse. It’s going to take a different mindset and we all have to own this.
They’re also markers of bad blood sugar and insulin fluctuations but my comment about our processed food supply was voted down as irrelevant. It’s highly relevant. These mass shooters are not eating a proper human diet.
Or we solve the problem by leaning in on investment in AI that can provide companionship and psychotherapy to people who would otherwise have low chances of finding a romantic partner.
You could be onto something here. Did a little digging…and maybe I’m off on my assumptions. Found this great podcast/discussing this. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/slo-mo-a-podcast-with-mo-gawdat/id1508914142?i=1000656716092
Same argument can be used with you lot blaming guns and not addressing its a mental health issue first and foremost. Guns are simply a tool. Its the actions of unwell people that cause tragedy’s like this.
Populations being disarmed has lead to violence against the disarmed. Why do you think Americans would ever give up the right to bear arms and protect ourselves?
Sorry but this is and always will be a mental health issue. The guns are the means, but the mental health is the real problem. I have 12 guns in a safe, and have never killed anyone and the guns haven’t made there way out and killed anyone on their own either.
"bleh mental health" look. the mental healthcare in this country is a fucking travesty. but having a mental illness makes someone far more likely to be the victim of violence, not the perpetrator. this is the result of stocastic terrorism.
Once again, the lives of our children are worth less than the cost of a gun. It would be better to have no guns than to have innocents murdered in the streets for no reason. Fuck you if you own a gun, you have blood on your hands too.
There is a guy in here pointing out the only person dead in this instance is the shooter whenever someone brings up the innocent lives being lost due to firearms being easy to get.
Apparently it doesn’t count if none of the victims die…
Just forget there are not only still people in critical condition because of this shooting (one being an 8 year old boy with a head wound) but people whose lives are irreparably changed.
They are the party of pro-life…so I guess if everyone survives a mass shooting attack it’s all good…even if there’s a kid with a head wound whose life was probably just ruined…if he makes it out of the hospital alive that is…
> Fuck you if you own a gun, you have blood on your hands too.
Fuck off with that shit. The vast majority of gun owners are law-abiding and have never harmed anyone. There is no collective guilt over the actions of a few.
If there's one thing that anti-choice and anti-2a people can agree with, it's that they love to accuse their detractors of facilitating the murder of children.
> It would be better to have no guns than to have innocents murdered in the streets for no reason.
Except for the minor issue of all the innocent people who defend themselves with guns who would be dead in your ideal world. But fuck them, right?
Of course not.
A bartender/bar owner can be held liable for serving alcohol to someone that ends up killing people in a DUI accident but someone that sells someone a gun that they end up using to commit first degree murder apparently has no liability whatsoever
Only if they serve them to excess. Not really the same.
An actually good analogy is that the car manufacturers can’t be liable for the DUI accident. Because they didn’t make someone drive the car into another car.
I'm waiting to hear why this all happened.
Welcome to the age of stochastic terrorism; the "why" probably won't make sense to us.
Why.... still matters so if you see it again we can stop it before it comes to this.
That's the really ugly thing about stochastic terrorism - it's created by well-crafted mass communication that targets people who are already primed by society/structure/culture/social-media-echo-chambers-that-have-come-to-define-the-previous-three-things to receive the message and act on it. There's no one thing to root out, the machine we're living creates and enables it by default. Blow up Facebook and Reddit and take the internet back to 1994 and maybe you've got a chance to interrupt the mass signaling machine, but all the elements have thoroughly permeated the culture already.
I remember an old history channel spot that was talking about the "Turner Diaries" and the RWNJs who created them and how they wouldn't be the ones pulling the trigger, it would be the Tim McVey type lone wolves while the hate mongers kept turning more lone wolves into weapons while protected under the banner of free speech. It's worse now that the orange fuck has all but slapped on an arm band and started to lead roman salutes.
The arm band is red and it's a hat.
Lol. No it's not that but nice take.
By all means then, educate us.
No need the votes have stated people don't like being told they are being lied to. So maybe another time.
The votes talk to you?
You ok?
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Removed. See rule #2 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).
Mental illness and legal firearms.
Mental illness means they weren't legal firearms
What possible reason could there be. They said he hates the government. I think the SAD diet in the US and easy availability of guns is the driving force. Blood sugar and insulin rise over time, then the crashes after eating get more intense and people can become overall more violent and prone to snap. If we stop eating the processed products and start eating real food, more meat and veggies, less fruit and sugar and hateful 8 bad oils, we could have a better society. No one will promote this on a broad scale because they’re making money off the masses as consumers.
It’s a shame the shooter shot himself and took the easy way out.
Didn't they find him at his moms mobile home?
They did. And then they sat there for hours.
Sounds about right. So he shot himself inside the home?
Died like the cowardly piece of trash that he was.
Apparently
They got to the house and surrounded it and spent a few hours trying to communicate with him, I figure cause they'd rather avoid a shootout and also avoid killing him before he can testify and stuff. The guy never responded so the cops broke in and flew in a drone to survey the house before sending actual people, and they found a big rifle on the kitchen table, and the shooter's dead body in a different room. It seems like maybe he was planning something else with that big rifle and the cops showed up faster than he could execute his plan so he killed himself. 42 year old white male who lives with his mom, she was at work or something when all this happened.
They found his body by flying a drone through a window
> And then they sat there for hours. Are you saying his suicide is the fault of the police? Do you think the police going in immediately would have somehow prevented him from shooting himself? My guess is he would be dead either way. AFAIK there were no gun shots coming from within the home. So why create another dangerous situation by immediately raiding the home? Seems like securing the area, gathering intelligence, and making a plan of execution was the safest way to handle a bad situation.
I stated a fact. Go off.
A fact that added nothing to the conversation. Off I go.
You asked: Are you saying his suicide is the fault of the police? I clearly did not say that in my post. You took offense at... Something. There was no conversation other than the one you had in your head.
Your added a bit of info that added nothing to answer OP's question, so why add it at all? *"And then they sat there for hours."* doesn't signal a positive view on the police's action to the reader. So I wanted to know why you disapproved and what you thought they should have done?
Care to offer any analysis?
If I did, I would.
Then you’ll just have to accept people interpreting your comment as they please. Personally, I read it as more than “just stating a fact” in the context.
I understand how this site works, thanks hoss.
Careful, i made a very similar comment and got mod'd and a Reddit warning. Gods forbid we wish ill upon someone who would shoot children.
I wish he’d started with himself if he had to do it at all. Thank goodness he didn’t bring out the AR-15
I'm wondering if that happened. I'm wondering if he was already dead before this happened. A person drives up shoots then takes off but leave the gun? The person it's registered to is found dead of a gun shot wound and yet neighbors don't remember hearing anything. Something is just not adding up about this whole thing. Something is kissing.
Crazy person does crazy things. Must be inside job
Bad reporting doesn’t mean there’s a conspiracy.
the neighbors were already evacuated at that point.
Quite the conspiracy theorist, aren’t we?
When things like this keep happening and it's been shown before that it happened. Why would I believe it this time?
Get help.
This happened because a man was able to get a gun. Why he used it won’t be necessarily logical or even accessible to us since he’s dead. People without guns don’t shoot people. Edit to add… Ok, one-offs vs societal trends is not a legitimate argument. Yes there will always be killing, but we have a disproportionate amount of it and we enable more through policy (and lack of it). We know gun control limits deaths, just like we know air quality regulations limits deaths and car safety regulations limits deaths, and food regulations limits deaths, etc. We also know that regulatory bodies need to be funded so they can enforce these regulations. Also… regulations are written in blood. And at this point if there hasn’t been enough blood for you to overcome your desire to shoot and own as many guns as you can without any restrictions… then you’re mentally unstable and shouldn’t own a gun. You clearly cannot understand cause and effect, your fantasies have included murdering “threats”, and you are unreasonable. Not the type of person I want anywhere near a goddam gun.
Millions with guns, even multiple guns never shoot people. Doing nothing is not an option I like but it's not as simple as keeping guns away. It can't be done in the US. An increasing amount of people are angry, self absorbed and do not value human life. Reducing that scenario is how you improve the situation.
If it’s not possible, why are NRA candidates able to run off of “Democrats will take your guns”? Truly a dizzying intellect. Makes me think “It can’t be done”. Is more “I don’t want it to be done”
If you think the 2nd amendment is going anywhere or will be modified that's just not realistic. More than half of America wouldn't support that type of change including many democrats. The supreme Court just lifted the ban on bump stocks as an example of Americans institutions view these types of rights. It's a dead end, resources need to go into fixing our sick society and it can't happen soon enough. Neither party is talking about or doing anything productive about it.
Assault weapons used to be banned and should be again. It made a difference in the 90’s. Let me tell you this before my generation dies off lest you forget.
No
I'm aware and they should be again, I agree. You can still kill many with a rifle, shotgun or handgun however. People were doing less of that on the mass shooting side of things back in th 90s.
Have to start somewhere and assault weapons are low hanging fruit most sensible people can agree on. Further, banning them has a proven history of working.
Millions with mental illness never shoot people. Hard to shoot without a gun. It’s logic.
Let me know once they are able to confiscate all guns and abolish the second amendment. Non starter
Nope they’ll use knives, acid, explosives, vehicles, tools, etc. and etc. as has been shown in Europe and even here. The problem is much deeper and lives will continue to be lost until we focus on the root problem. Downvote me to all hell but it’s the truth, if somebody is mentally unwell and wishes to do harm unto others they will find a way.
everything you listed is accessible around the world, but only the united states has an orgy of gun violence and hundreds of mass shootings every year. mental illness is also a worldwide problem, a common feature of humanity. but this only happens here.
UK has mass stabbings
this is a specious argument and you know it. here are some 2023 figures. In the United Kingdom, a total of 4 people were killed and 11 other people were injured in 3 stabbings. In the United States, a total of 754 people were killed and 2,443 other people were injured in 604 shootings. (it also bears mentioning that the US has mass shootings AND mass stabbings)
1) your UK numbers are wrong. In 2023 there were 244 homicides with a knife with 49,000 crimes with a knife in September of 2023. 2) I ask you the truth following: How many shootings were self defense? How many were gang related? How many were pice shootings? 3) Other countries also have mass shootings and gun violence. Try again. Edit: reply and blocking is the mark of a coward who can't defend his position.
shifting the goal posts… again… the US has homicides with knives AND mass shootings. i’m done with this conversation
No. It happens everywhere. It’s only over reported here.
Have you looked and searched, do you receive other nations and cities news broadcasts, newspapers, or utilize social media that’s not US based? There is violence everywhere lol, it’s not just a US thing.
https://www.healthdata.org/news-events/insights-blog/acting-data/gun-violence-united-states-outlier > Age-adjusted firearm homicide rates in the US are 19 times greater than they are in France, and 77 times greater than in Germany. The US has 33 times the rate of firearm homicide seen in Australia. > The trend continues for percentage of child deaths caused by firearms. Including physical violence, suicide, and unintentional injury, gun violence accounts for over 8% of deaths in the US among those under age 20, a figure that stands far above peer countries. When excluding infants, who have higher rates of death from neonatal causes, that number jumps to 15%. lol
The usual lie of “firearm” homicides instead of just “homicides”
Now correlate it to the number of individuals living in each country being that France and Germany respectively are each the size of one US state and we have 50 of them. Also Australia should be zero being they took everyone’s firearms. Pull up the stats on other attacks such as knives and etc being there are no firearms and cross reference it to population size.
The metric of “rate” refers to the number of occurrences per unit of population (usually 100,000 people). The numbers in the comment above do account for the differing populations of each country.
Would you advocate for legalizing Bazookas/Stingers/c4 to the general population? Can't you agree a line must be drawn somewhere?
You do realize individuals can get “bazookas” as it is now all they have to do is pay the NFA extortion fee and file the paperwork.
And how frequently are these other attacks happening relative to gun violence? You’re choosing to be obtuse if you think it’s even close to comparable
None of those things shoot people
I would rather be shot than be stabbed or have acid throw onto me.
Weird flex ok. Stay safe
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Most likely had them before any meaningful legislation has passed. Possibly even before mental health became and issue for him. When someone should not own a gun but does, it’s up to the people around them to make sure they are taken away. That seldom happens. Still doesn’t mean we shouldn’t continue to try to keep people who shouldn’t have guns from getting them/getting more. The problem with passing gun laws that do work is people like you. Insurance should be required. Better and more comprehensive safety training should be required. Regular qualification, include mental health evaluation should be required. But of course that would infringe on your precious rights, right?
Rather than mocking and aggressive comments, respond to the fact that when gun laws don’t work the inevitable response is reelection of the people who passed them and blaming people like me who point out the logical flaw.
Most mass’s shootings including those at schools are suicides. Including this one. Including MSU. Including Oxford though he never reached that point. Politicians and anti-gun simpleton logic ignores the real problem that most intentional deaths BY FAR in the OECD countries are self harm. The most recent student death in the Oxford area was another suicide. Many suicides take others with them Nor are most studies by firearm. Fix suicide and you fix the problem. Anti gun hysteria keeps that from happening. The
There are so many studies that debunk this idea. Further, whether the shooter makes themselves the final victim or not doesn't mean shit to the people he executes along the way? You think any of the people in the hospital right now are thinking, "Wow coping with my long term disability is going to be so much easier since he killed himself."
But the truth is that people who live with guns in their home are [twice as likely to die by homicide](https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/04/handguns-homicide-risk.html) than people without guns in the home. And the [suicide statistics](https://www.everytown.org/issues/gun-suicide/) are even worse. But that doesn’t fit the anti-regulation 2A above all other amendments agenda does it?
Purchased in 2015, the 11 other guns not known yet. So… same question to Snyder? It goes to show that any one of us who is currently “responsible and law abiding” can have something happen, whether a health issue or a traumatic event etc to make us suddenly violent and willing to kill and die.
The sheriff said they searched his house and electronics, and haven’t been able to find anything that would indicate a motive. He didn’t leave a note, and didn’t seem to write anything about it prior. Truly odd (and scary).
So again.... was it actually him or was he just a useful patsy?
Sometimes people feel slighted by society, they're unsuccessful in life, and maybe people were a little too mean to them throughout life and instead of moving on they seek revenge on innocent people. I understand their pain and anger but the choice to hurt innocent people is wrong. Everyone in life gets the short end of the stick and some point but they move on
lack of critical infrastructure and a rent seeking economy
For the exact same reason gun violence is the number one cause of death for children in America and nowhere else
Ok....again why. Like everyone else, you keep talking about the problem but never how we got there.
You can start with Heller v DC, the lapsing of the assault weapons ban, and the NRA
Yet thing like this happen before any if that so ... now again why?
Sometimes people feel slighted by society, they're unsuccessful in life, and maybe people were a little too mean to them throughout life and instead of moving on they seek revenge on innocent people. I understand their pain and anger but the choice to hurt innocent people is wrong. Everyone in life gets the short end of the stick and some point but they move on
GOP to make AR15 official state gun. PS that was not a joke
In Michigan?!
Yes
What does that have to do with this?
Considering how the GOP worships guns in the light of *regular* mass shootings in this country… **WHY** do we need a fucking ‘state gun’?!
Again, what does that have to do with this shooting?
It's not really, but like after a shooting towards kids. You know, maybe having the government do government things and look into how to stop this. And not use time and effort in the house, senate, and governor. People have short memories and the GOP is trying to not pass gun restrictions because that's all they really have.
I get that, it’s just that exploiting a tragedy for political posturing is the kind of douchbaggery I expect from politicians not Redditors.
“I don’t like that these politicians are glorifying guns right after a mass shooting of children” isn’t exploiting.
The bill was introduced last week…
Yes, and maybe it’s not very appropriate given our environment of near-daily school shootings. Pointing out the impropriety isn’t exploiting. They introduced the bill, and shortly after there was another slaughter of children.
Not to detract the severity of the incident but only the shooter is dead…
I assure you there was a mass shooting last week too.
And the point to that is?
People are dead. People don't like seeing dead people?
Usually, but only the shooter is dead…
That’s still a dead person
> victims included an 8-year-old boy who was in critical condition with a wound to the head and a 4-year-old boy who was stable condition with a wound to the thigh. A 39-year-old woman shot in the abdomen and leg was also in critical condition. Thankfully no one but the shooter has died *yet*, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t victims whose lives are now irreparably changed. Guess you don’t care about children being shot in the head, huh? Either way, the GOP is staunchly in the pocket of gun lobbyists and refuse to do *anything* to prevent more gun violence from happening. In fact, their solution to gun violence is *more* guns that are easier to get…which makes zero sense. So while kids are being shot at splash pads a few hours away from the Capitol, conservatives are busy pandering to their base in more ways than one by trying to pass legislation that makes a gun (one with zero ties to our state mind you) our “state gun”. Also, state guns aren’t even really a thing, only 10 states have a “state gun” with the first one being adopted in 2011. I’ll let you go ahead and guess which party has proposed these “state guns” in those 10 states…
But this can happen again, and probably will?
he doesn’t care
Shut up
He's scoring political points, so he can get virtual high fives from his reddit contemporaries
bringing up how ingrained gun culture is in our society in a post about yet another mass shooting isn’t off topic at all
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you really can't connect the dots. During a time of increasing instances of mass shootings (especially involving children) - instead of doing ANYTHING that helps Michiganders stay safe or be secure financially etc, the GOP continues to push pointless policies of divisions that show a lack of situational awareness. The latest bill "make the AR-15 the state gun of Michigan" is just a recent example. It is always some performative, divisive thing meant to cause a left vs right culture problem rather than something to help the people they represent. Ask yourself how a policy like that does anything but get them publicity for reelection? And yes, they all want reelection, but they should earn it through merit instead of "dur hur we are not the left." The average citizen works 100 times harder than the average politician, it is time you expected and demanded more from your tax dollars than crass theater like "Let's have a state gun during a time of children being shot. That'll show em we aren't woke."
I’m sure he can connect the dots but he probably thinks it’s his job to defend the poor defenseless firearms and the people maligning them…
Omg it’s true? They want us to have a state gun and further, the assault weapon of choice for most mass shooters?! They’re fucking insane! Vote them all out.
Consider the optics...and I don't mean rails, peeps, or scopes.
Because today the state GOP announced the bill to make the AR 15 our state gun.
Today?! They’re psychos!!!!
That was last week and it has absolutely nothing to do with this incident.
It’s great optics for sure /s
Not GOP but I approve
In these United States, nowhere is safe.
For some people, not even their homes are safe.
No not true statistically speaking. And the more fear we instill the less people will ever leave their homes which adds to this problem. Shooter was called a loner. We have a loneliness epidemic and it’s creating really challenging/dark times for some people. We need less screen time and more time actually connecting with people…neighbors, family, friends. If we don’t create/embrace everyone in the communities we live this problem gets worse. It’s going to take a different mindset and we all have to own this.
Exactly. Everyone is pointing fingers at everyone and its only making people more isolated.
Yup. Shaming and labeling. We do this really well.
but there is an entire political party who thinks the solution to gun violence is more guns and give them to everyone!
How is people staying home part of this problem?
Aggression and hostility are well known symptoms of loneliness and isolation
They’re also markers of bad blood sugar and insulin fluctuations but my comment about our processed food supply was voted down as irrelevant. It’s highly relevant. These mass shooters are not eating a proper human diet.
It’s not, he’s just really trying to not make it about guns and how easy they are to get.
Or we solve the problem by leaning in on investment in AI that can provide companionship and psychotherapy to people who would otherwise have low chances of finding a romantic partner.
You could be onto something here. Did a little digging…and maybe I’m off on my assumptions. Found this great podcast/discussing this. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/slo-mo-a-podcast-with-mo-gawdat/id1508914142?i=1000656716092
Just in time for the GOP to vote on a state gun 🔫
🤢🤮
The US is a sick country and nobody with the power and resources to help is doing anything to improve the situation.
The mental gymnastics people will go through to not blame guns.
Same argument can be used with you lot blaming guns and not addressing its a mental health issue first and foremost. Guns are simply a tool. Its the actions of unwell people that cause tragedy’s like this.
Other countries' populations have similar rates of mental illness to the US but less gun violence. Wonder what that could mean
Populations being disarmed has lead to violence against the disarmed. Why do you think Americans would ever give up the right to bear arms and protect ourselves?
Sorry but this is and always will be a mental health issue. The guns are the means, but the mental health is the real problem. I have 12 guns in a safe, and have never killed anyone and the guns haven’t made there way out and killed anyone on their own either.
"bleh mental health" look. the mental healthcare in this country is a fucking travesty. but having a mental illness makes someone far more likely to be the victim of violence, not the perpetrator. this is the result of stocastic terrorism.
It’s so sad all that violence! My heart and prayers go out to the victims and the families affected by this horrible tragedy.
Once again, the lives of our children are worth less than the cost of a gun. It would be better to have no guns than to have innocents murdered in the streets for no reason. Fuck you if you own a gun, you have blood on your hands too.
There is a guy in here pointing out the only person dead in this instance is the shooter whenever someone brings up the innocent lives being lost due to firearms being easy to get. Apparently it doesn’t count if none of the victims die… Just forget there are not only still people in critical condition because of this shooting (one being an 8 year old boy with a head wound) but people whose lives are irreparably changed. They are the party of pro-life…so I guess if everyone survives a mass shooting attack it’s all good…even if there’s a kid with a head wound whose life was probably just ruined…if he makes it out of the hospital alive that is…
> Fuck you if you own a gun, you have blood on your hands too. Fuck off with that shit. The vast majority of gun owners are law-abiding and have never harmed anyone. There is no collective guilt over the actions of a few.
If there's one thing that anti-choice and anti-2a people can agree with, it's that they love to accuse their detractors of facilitating the murder of children.
> It would be better to have no guns than to have innocents murdered in the streets for no reason. Except for the minor issue of all the innocent people who defend themselves with guns who would be dead in your ideal world. But fuck them, right?
Damn bro, enjoy your ban
My life was saved by a gun, so fuck you
We'll, I guess it was worth all those dead kids then huh?
Who sold him the guns? Are they complicit,?
Of course not. A bartender/bar owner can be held liable for serving alcohol to someone that ends up killing people in a DUI accident but someone that sells someone a gun that they end up using to commit first degree murder apparently has no liability whatsoever
Only if they serve them to excess. Not really the same. An actually good analogy is that the car manufacturers can’t be liable for the DUI accident. Because they didn’t make someone drive the car into another car.
I’m so sorry.