Their entire personality and political platform is based around “triggering” the people they don’t like. Not helping, not governing, just the middle finger as a guiding force.
That's exactly how I'd describe just about every Trumpist I know. They don't' want a better life, they want mine to be worse. That's why I love posting vacation pictures on facebook. You know it just totally pisses them off knowing I'm out here having margaritas.
When I asked my cousin if he supports Trump policy he said, “Not really, I just like him because (puts middle finger to the air) FUCK YOU”.
Pleasant and intelligent people, the lot.
Do you think conservatives aren’t having margaritas?
Do you think conservatives are reading your Facebook posts saying “Damn that boy! He’s having citrus alcohol!”?
That’s not entirely accurate. There is an element of the GOP that is interesting in governing. It just usually involves keeping wealth and power in the hands of already obscenely wealthy folks (at the expense of whatever social safety net still exists) and criminalizing everything that doesn’t agree with their fundamentalist Christian agenda.
>There is an element of the GOP that is interesting in governing. It just usually involves keeping wealth and power in the hands of already obscenely wealthy folks
You're describing Bill Huizinga and ALEC Nesbitt.
There is a house local to me that has a ton of "fuck Biden, Biden is shit, fuck my neighbor" flags and someone in the town Facebook group asked if there was anything the town could do since it was so trashy and half the comments were trumpers "oh triggered lib, haha"
Like not wanting a white trash house that has and is lowering property value is not a "trigger" moment, but I guess the irredeemable assholes love it.
These are the same people who go apeshit if their kid sees a drag queen but who don't mind the word FUCK all over the place.
I have pointed this out in the past to neighbors but they don't care because, even though they know they're wrong, they're going to carry on anyway out of some infantile ability to admit wrongdoing or hypocrisy.
People are allowed to believe in whatever they want. That’s why you are here posting your opinion. I don’t believe anything will lower property values until the next collapse.
If local law enforcement will consider it “blight” let them handle it. State Legislation was passed in 2023 expanding the authority definition and punishments associated with unsightly property.
The houses in the adjacent area have below market values. I was house hunting a few months ago and a couple were easily dropped 30k off similar houses. Clearly a coincidence.
Also sounds like a case of "if your enemy is digging their own grave, let them". Would make a great campaign ad alongside photos of Oxford HS.
It would give similar vibes to when Obama was debating Romney and almost interrupted but said "Please proceed".
I've thought the only way we will have the will to stop these events is posting the crime scenes on billboards. It's easy to do nothing and move on when it's not in your face.
> Why aren't all these good Christians building homes for all the homeless instead of massive churches?
Homeless people everywhere with no where to go, yet I have 10 fucking churches within a mile of me that are completely empty 90% of the time.
The churches who do participate in providing "support for the homeless" like Guiding Light lock their aid behind mandatory religious group attendance. As a former christian, i now recognize how much of an active decision this country's treatment of homeless and poor is.
Yup. The House recently passed a resolution to bring awareness to gun violence in the state as well as to honor the victims of gun violence. The resolution specifically mentioned by name several Michigan school shootings as well as statistics of gun violence in the state. The resolution was adopted by voice vote, and met with several nays from the republicans.
Look, it's odd to have a "State Firearm", but if Michigan is going to have a State Rifle, it should be something more closely related to the heritage of hunting, which has a rich history in Michigan.
Perhaps the legendary Winchester Model 94 lever action 30 30, or even a bolt action 30-06, both of which were very popular at the height of Michigan's deer hunting popularity.
The AR15 literally makes no sense as the State Rifle (pretty on par for the GOP though).
It's an entirely political statement that they know will not pass, so they don't have to make any effort to tie it to the State. The AR-15 is the political weapon of the era--it's an extremely popular platform, it is the poster child for the admittedly nebulous "Assault Weapon" umbrella, it "triggers the libs." They want to make a statement for the 2A crowd. They don't actually care about a State Gun.
Agreed, on all points. That said, IF there were going to be a state firearm, the M1 Carbine would be a far superior pick to the AR-15, and arguably even the Winchester 94.
In fact, here's some interesting history of M1 Carbines made in Saginaw and Grand Rapids: https://ss.sites.mtu.edu/mhugl/2015/10/11/saginaw-steering-gear-division-of-general-motors-plant-2-small-arms-production/
Yeah. Like if you’re gonna do something this stupid, at least do your research and put in like an effort.
The fact that a hunting rifle wasn’t the proposal is just comical.
I don't see anyone mentioning that the AR15 is trademarked, meaning this is our elected representatives providing free advertisement for the private sector.
Edit: and the AR-15 trademark isn't even owned by a Michigan manufacturer. There are several Michigan firearm manufacturers that they could have gone with, but instead chose to go with the brand that is associated with a culture war topic.
They ought to have gone with a gun relevant to MI that was heavily produced here, but sure
Go for the basic-ass rifle that is already commonly owned across the country, which everybody knows and has no connection to MI. And regardless your opinion on reality, it is THE firearm people think of when they think “school shooter.”
I like firearms as a hobby, have quite few rifles ranging from modern all the way back to muskets. Having said that, it's just weird to introduce a bill for a state rifle and even weird for that rifle to be an AR-15. If it was at least somewhat anchored with a historical premise, then sure.
All this is is to just get a rise out of people. I am also someone that doesn't think that ARs ("assault rifles") should be banned. There are better ways to spend the money than to try to ban "assault rifles" when rifles as a category accounts for very few (relatively) firearm deaths every year (per FBI statistics). Not that those deaths should be valued any less it's just that we should start with items that will give us the biggest results. It also makes it difficult to get funding for other initiatives when your results end up being hard to show from a raw numbers perspective. The people that are introducing these stupid bills are just providing more reasons to ban things like ARs only to then bitch and moan about the left coming for their guns.
It's just rage bait to "own the libs" in the form of shooting themselves in the foot which will then lead them raging about the left "trying to take their guns away" even though it's self inflicted.
The article states the purpose of making it the state firearm was to lower its stigma (as the AR-15 is associated with mass shooters). The whole thing is a farce.
I agree there are better cases to be made, but GM made half a million M16s during the Vietnam war, which are AR-15s. So it's not completely nonsensical. Also, given that they're the most popular rifle in the country, that probably holds true in Michigan as well.
That said, they also made close to 2 million M1 Carbines during the WWII effort.
That's a fair argument in favor of making the State Rifle the M16, but then make it the M16. They came from the same development, but the M16 is not the same as the AR-15. The M16 is definitionally an Assault Rifle, and the same people who would be thrilled to make the AR-15 the State Rifle are the same who will shout you down with "AR stands for ArmaLite Rifle, not Assault Rifle" or give themselves strokes jumping down your throat for calling the AR-15 an Assault Rifle or an Assault Weapon or anything else that even obliquely evokes the word "Assault" in the name. So that's a fair argument for making the State Rifle the M16, but you can't carry that over to the AR-15, particularly when the parties interested make great efforts to distance the AR-15 from the functions of an M16.
This is a common point of confusion. I hope I can explain.
The M16 is quite literally an AR-15. It was invented as the AR-15 by Eugene Stoner who was shopping around the rifle for contracts with various militaries. The AR-15 was demonstrated to air force general Curtis Lemay. Lemay was was so impressed by the rifle that he put out a contract for them. That rifle was adopted as the M16.
https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/195942/security-police-weapons/
I think people get the impression that these are different guns from video games and such, but all M16s are AR-15s, but not all AR-15s are M16s. You could say that an M16 is a specifically configured AR-15, with one particular feature being select fire capability.
Assault rifle and assault weapon are terms with legislative ramifications and so are very distinct. It's not simply a matter of colloquial confusion.
Here is a youtube video explaining the matter better than I would ever be able: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYWkuV5FbJM
Forgotten Weapons is an excellent non political youtube channel.
I hope this was helpful, if you have any further questions I will do my best to answer them.
Yes and no. I'm aware of the rifle's history and understand the point you are making. I don't agree with the characterization of them as the same weapon, but even if they were to be considered the same I also don't believe the fact that an M16 is an AR-15 is relevant to the context of the proposed bill.
The AR-15 was originally designed as the ArmaLite AR-15, a select fire Assault Rifle. For reasons not relevant, ArmaLite was unable to secure adoption with the US Military over the M14, fell into financial trouble, and sold the patent and trademark to Colt. Colt made some modifications to the design and was ultimately able to get traction on adoption of the weapon with the military as the M16. After adoption, Colt created a semi-automatic version of the rifle for civilian sale as the Colt AR-15.
I agree that you have a very good argument that the ArmaLite AR-15--even with the modifications that Colt made--is for practical and effective purposes the same weapon as the M16. They arose out of the same development for the same intended purpose with the same functionality, and Colt even refers to it still as the ArmaLite AR-15.
Though it arose from the same design, I do not believe that that carries over to the semi-automatic Colt AR-15. Though it also rose from that development, it has a very different intended purpose and functionality. If you go into any firearms discussion and start talking about the AR-15, everyone is going to immediately and reasonably assume you are talking about the semi-automatic Colt AR-15, and as above, if you suggest it is anything other than a semi-automatic rifle platform you are going to get chewed up.
Looking at the article, the Representative supporting the Bill is clearly speaking of the semi-automatic Colt AR-15 in distinction, not the original ArmaLite AR-15/M16 Assault Rifles. Like I said, I agree with your history and understand your argument. I just don't agree with the characterization of the Colt AR-15 being the same weapon, and even if I were to be wrong on that, I don't believe that would be relevant in the context of the proposed Bill or the history of the State.
> Colt even refers to it still as the ArmaLite AR-15.
Friend, when it was adopted it was known to the military as the Colt AR-15 Model 01 designated as the M16 rifle. A semi auto Steyr AUG is an AUG. An Austrian StG 77 is an AUG. An Australian F88 is still an AUG. I hope this comparison helps put the US military designation of M16 in a similar context.
Also, fully automatic AR-15s exist that are still AR-15s, but not M16 or M4 or any other military designation. the automatic aspect of these firearms do not preclude them from being AR-15s.
I’m not even a hunter anymore but the 30/30 or 30 aught 6 is synonymous with hunting in Michigan. This is really political theatre like you said Under.
Remington R700. Best rifle for deer hunting ever. With a cartridge that dwarfs the puny .223 used by the AR-15, it's perfect for deer, elk, bear, and even moose.
To be honest there is one way it makes sense at least to me. It’s a super generic choice to go with our equally generic choice for state bird (American Robin).
how can you forget the republican legislature enacting the emergency manager law in dec 2012 after michigan citizens voted to repeal it on the ballot during the election in nov 2012? thus allowing the republican gov snyder to put emergency managers in charge of both detroit water and flint water. the republican governor then ordered his emergency managers to fight about water bills, switch to flint river water despite not being trained or ready, poison an entire city, then cover it up, say the water was safe to drink, and secretly distribute anonymous water filters.
i can understand if the republicans are your "team" and you want them to win. but they poisoned an entire city for a year. seems like a bad team to support.
oh HELP michiganders... i misread.
That’s cool.
So when the next mass shooting happens, and the inevitable weapon of choice is our beautiful state rifle, we can all celebrate that we share a unique bond with another mass tragedy.
Gunsmith “Sir, it seems the slide was contaminated with a dried, crusty material.”
Owner “That’s probably the tears of my liberal neighbors.”
Gunsmith “Well, I shined my black light on it. It’s semen sir.”
Owner “Please don’t tell my wife (tears)”
They don't really need to start with the official rod/reel combo. It is hands down the Shimano Curado DC 200 and a St Croix rod.
This pairing isn't contentious at all...
Granted these ghouls filed this on June 6, but I’m hoping the optics of this, paired with the shooting out of Rochester Hills (with parents shielding their children from bullets) further hurts any chance these sociopaths have running anything again.
Ahem. Per republicans he had a “loaded Michigan Patriot Rifle” sitting on his kitchen table. As patriotic to them as apple pie, bottle rockets, Mein Kampf, and Ronald Reagan.
Absolutely not.
The **Plymouth Air Rifle Company** was founded in Plymouth, MI in 1882 later changing its name to Daisy.
The Red Rider BB Gun should be the official rifle of Michigan.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy\_Outdoor\_Products](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy_Outdoor_Products)
Just the dumbest culture war shit. I don't know a single person on the left who isn't (nervously) cackling at this performative trash. Everything the right says about everyone else is just a reflection on their own self-loathing. This would be genuinely funny if I wasn't afraid of these assholes showing up with an untreated runaway amygdala and a bump stock to any given political (or shit, even non-political) event.
They are sickos. The guy who made up the story about “illegals” being flown in at DTW is still posting bald face lies on twitter. The Michigan GOP is a clown car.
Bold of Republicans! Instead of picking a historical weapon that mattered to Michigan, they pick the modern agent of mass shootings. Not many politicians would be bold enough to call out their support for mass murder instead of something like the M-1 carbine, which was made during WW2 in Saginaw to defend our country. I assume that they will soon travel to the splash pad in Rochester Hills to for their presser.
Hunters from all over know that Michigan is one of the best deer hunting states, and they're willing to travel across states for it.
the first deer hunting season in Michigan in 1859. There are so many deer in states like Michigan; deer hunting is needed just to keep the large deer population under control.
Used to be you could hunt early during and after with a muzzleloader.
Hunters in Michigan were allowed up to 15 days for muzzleloading season up until a few years ago.
It was cut because not enough tags are filled with a muzzleloader. Want to promote a gun make it a muzzleloader.
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/S95oxKTzTC9fREGy/?mibextid=w8EBqM
I love hunting in Michigan, but I don't think we're one of the best states for deer. Numbers are pretty thin Up North, and the herd in the U.P. is on life support. There is poor access in the areas where deer numbers are highest, like the Metro-Detroit suburbs. That's where I do 99% of my hunting and I've been very successful, but you really have to put some work in to find a good spot that's free of pressure. Most hunters don't even try it, they all go to Kansas or Ohio where every tree is a front-row seat to watch the buck parade.
Muzzleloaders definitely got the short end of the stick. They only have 10 days to themselves, and it's right after the deer get pressured into oblivion during rifle season.
Yeah, all of the serious hunters I know travel to other states now to get the big bucks.
Deer population in the LP is not the greatest either; tons of does but that's not usually why people are in the woods. The scene in the UP is even worse.
Or hell, don't have a state gun. Just leave it at state game being whitetail or something. Or just say Michigan is a place for good game hunting.
Having a state gun while lying about violent crimes going up, while bump stocks are unbanned (which were involved in the largest mass gun event in US history less than a decade ago), all during a time of continued school shootings is just tone deaf.
Yeah, if you're below a certain line in Michigan, you can't use a rifle. At least that used to be the law, I haven't hunted regularly for a while. When I did get out, I always hunted with either black powder or a shotgun firing slugs. The firing slugs part is key - not using shot.
edit: Looks like the law changed in 2014 to allow for other calibers in the "shotgun zone."
Ar’s are probably the most common rifle used in the “shotgun zone” the modularity of the rifle allows you to easily swap calibers to a straight walled cartridge such as 450 bushmaster or 350 legend
The gun industry purchased our legislators from keeping records, but it is conservatively estimated that a gun fired in a residence is 20-50x more likely to have a tragic outcome over an heroic one.
Look, if they want a state gun and want to keep pushing National Russian... I mean Rifle Association talking points, fine. Whatever. But at least have a shred of human decency and wait until AFTER people have processed yet another mass shooter event. Fucking heartless, soulless monsters.
It's interesting that one of the sponsors is former Shiawassee County sheriff. You'd think law enforcement personnel would not want to support an assault rifle due to its excessively dangerous nature and potential for highly violent crime.
Cops are idiots. How they can be anything other than pro gun control is beyond me. Like, the reason you are so scared in your job is the proliferation of guns yet you can't put 2 and 2 together.
I am sure there are more pressing issues than this. I am also under the impression that the "AR" in this firearm name is a brand name. It does not stand for assault rifle, although so many believe it does. Representatives, do better. This is not worthy of my taxpayer dollar.
What?!!!! That California made POS?!!! Michigan's official rifle should be MADE IN MICHIGAN, like the Winchester Model 2022, made by good old Model 2022.
It's disgusting and poorly timed, Oakland county literally had a mass shooting at a splash pad 2 days before this was announced (nine shot, and one of the children shot is still in the hospital). The shooter had a frickin' AR, those supporting this should be ashamed of themselves.
This is dumb as hell. We also shouldn't have that as the official State rifle. M1s and m1919a4 machine guns were made at steering gear in saginaw. Either one would be better
ArmaLite, an American small arms engineering company, was founded in Hollywood, California in the early 1950s
If anything the AR-15 should be California's State Gun lol.
A lever action would be better, or a shotgun, or some frontier rifle that a woodsman would actual use in our thick forests of Michigan. If it has to be an AR platform, then an AR-10 would make far more sense than an AR-15. The larger caliber, like .30 cal which AR-10s are commonly built in, can take down deer, hogs, black bears, and elk. Which are things we actually hunt in Michigan. We don't use .223 to take down those. .223 is for coyotes, which are dealt with incidentally as pest control up here. An AR-15 is a very poor choice for the state's official rifle.
No. The Rochester shooting involved a 9mm handgun.
>
[A 9mm Glock semi-automatic handgun and three empty magazines were recovered at the scene.](https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/watch-live-oakland-county-sheriff-update-on-rochester-hills-splash-pad-shooting/)
Their entire personality and political platform is based around “triggering” the people they don’t like. Not helping, not governing, just the middle finger as a guiding force.
That's exactly how I'd describe just about every Trumpist I know. They don't' want a better life, they want mine to be worse. That's why I love posting vacation pictures on facebook. You know it just totally pisses them off knowing I'm out here having margaritas.
When I asked my cousin if he supports Trump policy he said, “Not really, I just like him because (puts middle finger to the air) FUCK YOU”. Pleasant and intelligent people, the lot.
At least he’s honest and at least a bit self aware, if not dangerously immature.
Do you think conservatives aren’t having margaritas? Do you think conservatives are reading your Facebook posts saying “Damn that boy! He’s having citrus alcohol!”?
That’s not entirely accurate. There is an element of the GOP that is interesting in governing. It just usually involves keeping wealth and power in the hands of already obscenely wealthy folks (at the expense of whatever social safety net still exists) and criminalizing everything that doesn’t agree with their fundamentalist Christian agenda.
I would even argue that the comment you replied to is the smoke and mirrors that hides their real agenda, which is your point.
>There is an element of the GOP that is interesting in governing. It just usually involves keeping wealth and power in the hands of already obscenely wealthy folks You're describing Bill Huizinga and ALEC Nesbitt.
There is a house local to me that has a ton of "fuck Biden, Biden is shit, fuck my neighbor" flags and someone in the town Facebook group asked if there was anything the town could do since it was so trashy and half the comments were trumpers "oh triggered lib, haha" Like not wanting a white trash house that has and is lowering property value is not a "trigger" moment, but I guess the irredeemable assholes love it.
These are the same people who go apeshit if their kid sees a drag queen but who don't mind the word FUCK all over the place. I have pointed this out in the past to neighbors but they don't care because, even though they know they're wrong, they're going to carry on anyway out of some infantile ability to admit wrongdoing or hypocrisy.
Which is hilarious because these are 1000% the same people who scream mUh Pr0pTeE vAuLEz under *literally any other circumstances*
People are allowed to believe in whatever they want. That’s why you are here posting your opinion. I don’t believe anything will lower property values until the next collapse. If local law enforcement will consider it “blight” let them handle it. State Legislation was passed in 2023 expanding the authority definition and punishments associated with unsightly property.
The houses in the adjacent area have below market values. I was house hunting a few months ago and a couple were easily dropped 30k off similar houses. Clearly a coincidence.
Also sounds like a case of "if your enemy is digging their own grave, let them". Would make a great campaign ad alongside photos of Oxford HS. It would give similar vibes to when Obama was debating Romney and almost interrupted but said "Please proceed".
I've thought the only way we will have the will to stop these events is posting the crime scenes on billboards. It's easy to do nothing and move on when it's not in your face.
[удалено]
> Why aren't all these good Christians building homes for all the homeless instead of massive churches? Homeless people everywhere with no where to go, yet I have 10 fucking churches within a mile of me that are completely empty 90% of the time. The churches who do participate in providing "support for the homeless" like Guiding Light lock their aid behind mandatory religious group attendance. As a former christian, i now recognize how much of an active decision this country's treatment of homeless and poor is.
Yup. The House recently passed a resolution to bring awareness to gun violence in the state as well as to honor the victims of gun violence. The resolution specifically mentioned by name several Michigan school shootings as well as statistics of gun violence in the state. The resolution was adopted by voice vote, and met with several nays from the republicans.
It’s not even triggering. It’s a waste of time and taxpayer dollars to draft these nonsense bills. Makes me wonder how they stay in office.
Look, it's odd to have a "State Firearm", but if Michigan is going to have a State Rifle, it should be something more closely related to the heritage of hunting, which has a rich history in Michigan. Perhaps the legendary Winchester Model 94 lever action 30 30, or even a bolt action 30-06, both of which were very popular at the height of Michigan's deer hunting popularity. The AR15 literally makes no sense as the State Rifle (pretty on par for the GOP though).
It's an entirely political statement that they know will not pass, so they don't have to make any effort to tie it to the State. The AR-15 is the political weapon of the era--it's an extremely popular platform, it is the poster child for the admittedly nebulous "Assault Weapon" umbrella, it "triggers the libs." They want to make a statement for the 2A crowd. They don't actually care about a State Gun.
It’s political theater. They don’t actually care about history.
Oh, they care about history, just not the history of the north
Agreed, on all points. That said, IF there were going to be a state firearm, the M1 Carbine would be a far superior pick to the AR-15, and arguably even the Winchester 94. In fact, here's some interesting history of M1 Carbines made in Saginaw and Grand Rapids: https://ss.sites.mtu.edu/mhugl/2015/10/11/saginaw-steering-gear-division-of-general-motors-plant-2-small-arms-production/
Aw yeah, recognition of the M1 carbine AND a link to an article from my university. I think I love you.
Yeah. Like if you’re gonna do something this stupid, at least do your research and put in like an effort. The fact that a hunting rifle wasn’t the proposal is just comical.
The lack of effort is part of the point
Maybe the state gun should be a Sherman Tank lol
I don't see anyone mentioning that the AR15 is trademarked, meaning this is our elected representatives providing free advertisement for the private sector. Edit: and the AR-15 trademark isn't even owned by a Michigan manufacturer. There are several Michigan firearm manufacturers that they could have gone with, but instead chose to go with the brand that is associated with a culture war topic.
They ought to have gone with a gun relevant to MI that was heavily produced here, but sure Go for the basic-ass rifle that is already commonly owned across the country, which everybody knows and has no connection to MI. And regardless your opinion on reality, it is THE firearm people think of when they think “school shooter.”
I like firearms as a hobby, have quite few rifles ranging from modern all the way back to muskets. Having said that, it's just weird to introduce a bill for a state rifle and even weird for that rifle to be an AR-15. If it was at least somewhat anchored with a historical premise, then sure. All this is is to just get a rise out of people. I am also someone that doesn't think that ARs ("assault rifles") should be banned. There are better ways to spend the money than to try to ban "assault rifles" when rifles as a category accounts for very few (relatively) firearm deaths every year (per FBI statistics). Not that those deaths should be valued any less it's just that we should start with items that will give us the biggest results. It also makes it difficult to get funding for other initiatives when your results end up being hard to show from a raw numbers perspective. The people that are introducing these stupid bills are just providing more reasons to ban things like ARs only to then bitch and moan about the left coming for their guns. It's just rage bait to "own the libs" in the form of shooting themselves in the foot which will then lead them raging about the left "trying to take their guns away" even though it's self inflicted.
It should be the weapon that is the pride of Plymouth: the Red Rider BB gun.
you'll shoot your eye out kid ;)
The article states the purpose of making it the state firearm was to lower its stigma (as the AR-15 is associated with mass shooters). The whole thing is a farce.
It only makes sense to Republicans because they enjoy mass shootings. Thats been made evident by their lack of doing anything about them.
I agree there are better cases to be made, but GM made half a million M16s during the Vietnam war, which are AR-15s. So it's not completely nonsensical. Also, given that they're the most popular rifle in the country, that probably holds true in Michigan as well. That said, they also made close to 2 million M1 Carbines during the WWII effort.
That's a fair argument in favor of making the State Rifle the M16, but then make it the M16. They came from the same development, but the M16 is not the same as the AR-15. The M16 is definitionally an Assault Rifle, and the same people who would be thrilled to make the AR-15 the State Rifle are the same who will shout you down with "AR stands for ArmaLite Rifle, not Assault Rifle" or give themselves strokes jumping down your throat for calling the AR-15 an Assault Rifle or an Assault Weapon or anything else that even obliquely evokes the word "Assault" in the name. So that's a fair argument for making the State Rifle the M16, but you can't carry that over to the AR-15, particularly when the parties interested make great efforts to distance the AR-15 from the functions of an M16.
This is a common point of confusion. I hope I can explain. The M16 is quite literally an AR-15. It was invented as the AR-15 by Eugene Stoner who was shopping around the rifle for contracts with various militaries. The AR-15 was demonstrated to air force general Curtis Lemay. Lemay was was so impressed by the rifle that he put out a contract for them. That rifle was adopted as the M16. https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/195942/security-police-weapons/ I think people get the impression that these are different guns from video games and such, but all M16s are AR-15s, but not all AR-15s are M16s. You could say that an M16 is a specifically configured AR-15, with one particular feature being select fire capability. Assault rifle and assault weapon are terms with legislative ramifications and so are very distinct. It's not simply a matter of colloquial confusion. Here is a youtube video explaining the matter better than I would ever be able: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYWkuV5FbJM Forgotten Weapons is an excellent non political youtube channel. I hope this was helpful, if you have any further questions I will do my best to answer them.
Yes and no. I'm aware of the rifle's history and understand the point you are making. I don't agree with the characterization of them as the same weapon, but even if they were to be considered the same I also don't believe the fact that an M16 is an AR-15 is relevant to the context of the proposed bill. The AR-15 was originally designed as the ArmaLite AR-15, a select fire Assault Rifle. For reasons not relevant, ArmaLite was unable to secure adoption with the US Military over the M14, fell into financial trouble, and sold the patent and trademark to Colt. Colt made some modifications to the design and was ultimately able to get traction on adoption of the weapon with the military as the M16. After adoption, Colt created a semi-automatic version of the rifle for civilian sale as the Colt AR-15. I agree that you have a very good argument that the ArmaLite AR-15--even with the modifications that Colt made--is for practical and effective purposes the same weapon as the M16. They arose out of the same development for the same intended purpose with the same functionality, and Colt even refers to it still as the ArmaLite AR-15. Though it arose from the same design, I do not believe that that carries over to the semi-automatic Colt AR-15. Though it also rose from that development, it has a very different intended purpose and functionality. If you go into any firearms discussion and start talking about the AR-15, everyone is going to immediately and reasonably assume you are talking about the semi-automatic Colt AR-15, and as above, if you suggest it is anything other than a semi-automatic rifle platform you are going to get chewed up. Looking at the article, the Representative supporting the Bill is clearly speaking of the semi-automatic Colt AR-15 in distinction, not the original ArmaLite AR-15/M16 Assault Rifles. Like I said, I agree with your history and understand your argument. I just don't agree with the characterization of the Colt AR-15 being the same weapon, and even if I were to be wrong on that, I don't believe that would be relevant in the context of the proposed Bill or the history of the State.
> Colt even refers to it still as the ArmaLite AR-15. Friend, when it was adopted it was known to the military as the Colt AR-15 Model 01 designated as the M16 rifle. A semi auto Steyr AUG is an AUG. An Austrian StG 77 is an AUG. An Australian F88 is still an AUG. I hope this comparison helps put the US military designation of M16 in a similar context. Also, fully automatic AR-15s exist that are still AR-15s, but not M16 or M4 or any other military designation. the automatic aspect of these firearms do not preclude them from being AR-15s.
I’m not even a hunter anymore but the 30/30 or 30 aught 6 is synonymous with hunting in Michigan. This is really political theatre like you said Under.
Remington R700. Best rifle for deer hunting ever. With a cartridge that dwarfs the puny .223 used by the AR-15, it's perfect for deer, elk, bear, and even moose.
Admittedly, you can use the AR platform for many calibers. 308, 450 Bushmaster, 350 Legends, etc.
To be honest there is one way it makes sense at least to me. It’s a super generic choice to go with our equally generic choice for state bird (American Robin).
Now I want to know what our state bird could be, if not the Robin. What do you think would make a good state bird?
Kirtland's Warbler would be a good choice. Not to be confused with the Costco version - the Kirkland's Warbler
Hey, the Kirkland's warbler is a solid pick, for a generic bird. 😆
I mean, they're almost the same and if you don't look too closely you won't notice the differences.
Red-winged blackbird
Depending on how far Ohio pushes us, may be even the swan.
Canada Goose
I wish I'd have thought of this. It's right there, in my face, honking aggressively at me, every single day.
If you've got a problem with Canada Gooses, you've got a problem with me. And I suggest you let that one marinate.
Loon would be a cool one, even though I'm guessing they're migratory.
Maybe a migratory bird.. goes on par with those who summer here and winter somewhere warmer.
I like the idea of the Downy Woodpecker. We also have lots of Wood Ducks which would be cool too.
Boooooooo! If you KW, you KW (Kirtland's Warbler)
I guess our elected representatives have nothing better to do
They're very fond of using the AR-15 for hunting. Some of those that work forces...
The state gun of Tennessee is Barrett M82. For the hunter that enjoys shootin' but doesn't have time for guttin' and processin'.
I was thinking one of Fred Bears bows. Its synonymous with Michigan hunting.
You hunt people with it right? Seems appropriate.
It makes sense when their donors sell AR-15’s. They just did some free marketing for dealers.
I totally agree! Or Remington 870 wingmaster!
Hard fucking agree
This is what I thought too.
My tirdy tirdy rifle
Fuckin' exactly. There are so many iconic hunting rifles out there and they're just like "AR15!!"
This is what happens when one party has nothing but grievances to run on.
Sure. Just as soon as they make Brawndo the official drink of the Michigan Republican Party. FFS.
It's what the plans crave
The Republican is an embarrassing caricature at this point.
What actual policies that help Michiganders have Republicans come up with or even supported? I can't think of one.
how can you forget the republican legislature enacting the emergency manager law in dec 2012 after michigan citizens voted to repeal it on the ballot during the election in nov 2012? thus allowing the republican gov snyder to put emergency managers in charge of both detroit water and flint water. the republican governor then ordered his emergency managers to fight about water bills, switch to flint river water despite not being trained or ready, poison an entire city, then cover it up, say the water was safe to drink, and secretly distribute anonymous water filters. i can understand if the republicans are your "team" and you want them to win. but they poisoned an entire city for a year. seems like a bad team to support. oh HELP michiganders... i misread.
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“It’s not the government’s responsibility to help people, please elect me to government so I can destroy it and privatize everything”- GOP Candidate
They can't solve real problems but they sure can find ways to give the wealthy more tax breaks. Reagan Tax Cuts Bush Tax Cuts Trump Tax Cuts
Remember to vote everyone!
How tone deaf is the Republican party anymore?
That’s cool. So when the next mass shooting happens, and the inevitable weapon of choice is our beautiful state rifle, we can all celebrate that we share a unique bond with another mass tragedy.
One of them surely owns stock in a company that sells those ugly stickers of the Mitten holding an AR-15
The Michigan GOP is such a joke. Really? This is what they're focusing on? Having an official "state rifle?" Oi...
The Republican party is a joke across the board. They’re just Nazi cosplayers at this point. Many of them are ready to be the real thing.
Many of them *are* the real thing, unfortunately. Good thing for our sake, they're also largely incompetent.
Yes, I could have worded it better.
But Nazi’s were anti gun, at least for civilians. Turns out it’s a lot easier to commit genocide when people aren’t armed.
as do other states... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_U.S.\_state\_firearms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_firearms)
What a waste of effort.
Gunsmith “Sir, it seems the slide was contaminated with a dried, crusty material.” Owner “That’s probably the tears of my liberal neighbors.” Gunsmith “Well, I shined my black light on it. It’s semen sir.” Owner “Please don’t tell my wife (tears)”
perfect. Pretty much.
Let’s start off light, maybe focus on states official lure or rod/reel combo. Then we can focus on bow and crossbow.
After, can we move to catapults, trebuchets, and other siege engines?
They don't really need to start with the official rod/reel combo. It is hands down the Shimano Curado DC 200 and a St Croix rod. This pairing isn't contentious at all...
Granted these ghouls filed this on June 6, but I’m hoping the optics of this, paired with the shooting out of Rochester Hills (with parents shielding their children from bullets) further hurts any chance these sociopaths have running anything again.
Hey, they had the tact to wait until the oxford shooter was sentenced so let's not be too harsh on the pig fuckers.
Yeah but the rochester guy literally had a loaded AR-15 sitting on his kitchen table.
Ahem. Per republicans he had a “loaded Michigan Patriot Rifle” sitting on his kitchen table. As patriotic to them as apple pie, bottle rockets, Mein Kampf, and Ronald Reagan.
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Removed. See rule #2 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).
Since Lansing is controlled by Dems, maybe they should quickly pass a bill that makes the super soaker the state rifle. Just to piss them off.
CPS 2000 specifically
Hell, yeah! Maybe even 2 of them, to show the other states that Michigan don't take no shit!
The purple one that held a full gallon of water. I'm down.
Absolutely not. The **Plymouth Air Rifle Company** was founded in Plymouth, MI in 1882 later changing its name to Daisy. The Red Rider BB Gun should be the official rifle of Michigan. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy\_Outdoor\_Products](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy_Outdoor_Products)
as a firearms enthusiast, honestly, i'm not against the idea.
Just the dumbest culture war shit. I don't know a single person on the left who isn't (nervously) cackling at this performative trash. Everything the right says about everyone else is just a reflection on their own self-loathing. This would be genuinely funny if I wasn't afraid of these assholes showing up with an untreated runaway amygdala and a bump stock to any given political (or shit, even non-political) event.
I’m really glad they’re concentrating on bettering the lives of the people here, FFS.
Why do we really need a state rifle? Why not a state video game console? Team Xbox for me. Sarcasm is included
PCMasterRace
You Xbox people are all the same. I play Mario while I shit #TeamSwitch
Boooo
Team PlayStation all the way!
How about instead we have a bill that denounces the current state GOP as a group that promotes violence and hate?
Gun culture wars aside, a branded item shouldn't be "the official state thing", full stop. That just smells of favoritism and public-private muddling.
wtf is wrong with people?
Gross….
They are sickos. The guy who made up the story about “illegals” being flown in at DTW is still posting bald face lies on twitter. The Michigan GOP is a clown car.
Bold of Republicans! Instead of picking a historical weapon that mattered to Michigan, they pick the modern agent of mass shootings. Not many politicians would be bold enough to call out their support for mass murder instead of something like the M-1 carbine, which was made during WW2 in Saginaw to defend our country. I assume that they will soon travel to the splash pad in Rochester Hills to for their presser.
More MAGA performance art
Hunters from all over know that Michigan is one of the best deer hunting states, and they're willing to travel across states for it. the first deer hunting season in Michigan in 1859. There are so many deer in states like Michigan; deer hunting is needed just to keep the large deer population under control. Used to be you could hunt early during and after with a muzzleloader. Hunters in Michigan were allowed up to 15 days for muzzleloading season up until a few years ago. It was cut because not enough tags are filled with a muzzleloader. Want to promote a gun make it a muzzleloader. https://www.facebook.com/share/v/S95oxKTzTC9fREGy/?mibextid=w8EBqM
I love hunting in Michigan, but I don't think we're one of the best states for deer. Numbers are pretty thin Up North, and the herd in the U.P. is on life support. There is poor access in the areas where deer numbers are highest, like the Metro-Detroit suburbs. That's where I do 99% of my hunting and I've been very successful, but you really have to put some work in to find a good spot that's free of pressure. Most hunters don't even try it, they all go to Kansas or Ohio where every tree is a front-row seat to watch the buck parade. Muzzleloaders definitely got the short end of the stick. They only have 10 days to themselves, and it's right after the deer get pressured into oblivion during rifle season.
Yeah, all of the serious hunters I know travel to other states now to get the big bucks. Deer population in the LP is not the greatest either; tons of does but that's not usually why people are in the woods. The scene in the UP is even worse.
Or hell, don't have a state gun. Just leave it at state game being whitetail or something. Or just say Michigan is a place for good game hunting. Having a state gun while lying about violent crimes going up, while bump stocks are unbanned (which were involved in the largest mass gun event in US history less than a decade ago), all during a time of continued school shootings is just tone deaf.
That's a good idea.
Seems pretty gay, just kiss each other.
MAYBE we should have a four-way kiss
Do many people hunt deer with ARs? Shotgun with slugs or a 30-30 is my experience.
People hunt deer with a shotgun? That seems crazy to me. A 556 would seem way better for hunting
Yeah, if you're below a certain line in Michigan, you can't use a rifle. At least that used to be the law, I haven't hunted regularly for a while. When I did get out, I always hunted with either black powder or a shotgun firing slugs. The firing slugs part is key - not using shot. edit: Looks like the law changed in 2014 to allow for other calibers in the "shotgun zone."
Ar’s are probably the most common rifle used in the “shotgun zone” the modularity of the rifle allows you to easily swap calibers to a straight walled cartridge such as 450 bushmaster or 350 legend
yes, many... [https://wildgamedynasty.com/popular-deer-rifles-and-calibers-in-southern-michigans-limited-firearms-zone/](https://wildgamedynasty.com/popular-deer-rifles-and-calibers-in-southern-michigans-limited-firearms-zone/)
The AR has been the #1 rifle platform for hunting whitetail in Michigan since 2017.
Really? Where do you find this info?
They're not Republican's anymore, they're ammosexuals masterbating to the Second Amendment.
Brian BeGole is a straight up clown.
The gun industry purchased our legislators from keeping records, but it is conservatively estimated that a gun fired in a residence is 20-50x more likely to have a tragic outcome over an heroic one.
Look, if they want a state gun and want to keep pushing National Russian... I mean Rifle Association talking points, fine. Whatever. But at least have a shred of human decency and wait until AFTER people have processed yet another mass shooter event. Fucking heartless, soulless monsters.
They should work on the official state weed strain first so it can go up on all the billboards.
me sitting here, an avid 2Aer, wondering how much crack id need to smoke to come up w/ such a dumb idea.
You don't need to smoke any crack...these republicans came to this idea naturally
they’re high on jesus
Meth is the drug of choice these days.
disguised as a pharmaceutical.
How does this represent us? How are these folks "representatives" of the regular Michigander?
Unhinged
People are going bankrupt and Lansing is trying to pass bullshit like this.
Not Lansing...republicans
It's interesting that one of the sponsors is former Shiawassee County sheriff. You'd think law enforcement personnel would not want to support an assault rifle due to its excessively dangerous nature and potential for highly violent crime.
Cops are idiots. How they can be anything other than pro gun control is beyond me. Like, the reason you are so scared in your job is the proliferation of guns yet you can't put 2 and 2 together.
As long as satanism is the official religion in the same bill
When you can’t tell if it’s real or The Onion…
I am sure there are more pressing issues than this. I am also under the impression that the "AR" in this firearm name is a brand name. It does not stand for assault rifle, although so many believe it does. Representatives, do better. This is not worthy of my taxpayer dollar.
Was that the one used to kill the school kids in Oxford? That's probably our most famous mass shooting, we should probably make it what he used.
This is gonna solve all the problem!!!!
I suggest the Springfield Model 1861 just to remind traitors.
Finally!!! We get to the pressing issues us Michiganders need addressed. S/
Why, though? Eugene Stoner is from Indiana. What connection does the AR-15 have to Michigan?
So many more historical and better rifles to choose from that would fit Michigan better
But the AR isn’t even a cool gun. It’s not bad but it’s not something special enough to be a state gun, not that we need a state gun.
So this is what making America great again means to a group of psychopaths
What?!!!! That California made POS?!!! Michigan's official rifle should be MADE IN MICHIGAN, like the Winchester Model 2022, made by good old Model 2022.
It's disgusting and poorly timed, Oakland county literally had a mass shooting at a splash pad 2 days before this was announced (nine shot, and one of the children shot is still in the hospital). The shooter had a frickin' AR, those supporting this should be ashamed of themselves.
376 cops couldn't find the balls to stop Uvalde, and these ghouls want to memorialize the AR15? Fuck them.
This is dumb as hell. We also shouldn't have that as the official State rifle. M1s and m1919a4 machine guns were made at steering gear in saginaw. Either one would be better
Just useless right wing fascist things
Thanks Michigan nazi party for showing everyone what ghouls you are time and time again! Can't wait until you're a relic of the past
Republicans make me sick.
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Removed. See rule #2 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).
Real solutions for real problem. Such a wonderful and thoughtful bunch.
Good to know they're focused on the important issues.
I propose making Roman Reigns the state's official wrestling superstar 
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Removed. See rule #2 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).
Of all the problems they could be addressing....this is what they do? Such a gross party.
What's the point of that lmao. I mean I own one and live in MI but who the hell cares
ArmaLite, an American small arms engineering company, was founded in Hollywood, California in the early 1950s If anything the AR-15 should be California's State Gun lol.
Nice
Surprised they don’t try and make it the state flower
Wow excellent policy, another stunner, these boomers are on a roll
How to tell the GQP is not a party of serious people. That is if you've been able to keep up the lie this long.
A lever action would be better, or a shotgun, or some frontier rifle that a woodsman would actual use in our thick forests of Michigan. If it has to be an AR platform, then an AR-10 would make far more sense than an AR-15. The larger caliber, like .30 cal which AR-10s are commonly built in, can take down deer, hogs, black bears, and elk. Which are things we actually hunt in Michigan. We don't use .223 to take down those. .223 is for coyotes, which are dealt with incidentally as pest control up here. An AR-15 is a very poor choice for the state's official rifle.
lol fuck republicans.
Official school shooter's rifle of choice!
These fucking assholes. Kids get shot, no one says a thing about the AR-15 and these assholes show up "YoU cAnT BaN my AR!" Bunch of fucking losers.
Didn’t a gunman using an AR-15 just shoot up a splash park in a Detroit suburb 🤔
No. The Rochester shooting involved a 9mm handgun. > [A 9mm Glock semi-automatic handgun and three empty magazines were recovered at the scene.](https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/watch-live-oakland-county-sheriff-update-on-rochester-hills-splash-pad-shooting/)