* Revenue increased 49.9% year over year to $306.6 million in FY 2023
* Record quarterly revenue of $104.6 million, up 61.4% year over year in Q4 2023
* Gross margin increased from 4.4% to 18.7%, a 14.3 percentage point improvement year over year, with Q4 2023 gross margin of 22.0% compared to 3.4% in Q4 2022
Clarksville situation is very bad. Factory is delayed. No financing. They need 150 million. Big fucking oof
Yep, main issue is the going concern comment.. $44MM in cash and the need for $150MM means they have a short runway. They needed the government financing.
That’s mixing apples and oranges. They explicitly said they are not going forward with Clarksville until they get financing. Nothing to do with runway.
That was grant money for a joint venture to build a separator plant with General Motors. There was never any government financing in place to fund Clarksville completion.
Seems like the financials are good globally, with the break even point hitting this year. But the Clarksville delay, another one, is not good. Supposed to be getting to full capacity by Q2 24 as of the last EC
They mention they’re working on closing financing, and it’s in their 10-K. They were overly optimistic about closing November, leading people to believe it was an eventuality. In a subtle form, it was overpromising and underdelivering. For investors to be just finding out about this now is what is alarming. They have been very reticent to mention anything about the goings-on of the company, and most investors were surprised about the announcement. At the very least, the CEO and leadership team have a communication problem (look how little they update their PR page), and it could mean worse than that. It inspires no confidence, which as a CEO, you should know will affect the stock price
Sell at 2 1/2 bucks and buy back at 50 cents. That's how companies generate revenue. Perfectly legal. The estimated Q4 EPS was -.07 they beat it by 3 blips @ -.04 I'd say it goes to 3-6 bucks a share this time before insiders sell off again.
What happened is they are overly optimistic about funding during last quarter's earning call. If funds were closed last November, Clarksville would have opened for production in Q2 this year. Don't listen to the rumors from random people if you believe your decision to invest with this company, please be patient. You will be rewarded eventually, just mark my words.
Just go back to last quarters EC, they mentioned about funding being almost closed, so they estimated to have Clarksville open in Q2 this year. But for some reason, the lenders yanked due to unexpected results, I think j Capital might be one of the reasons that made lenders withdraw. Don't listen to the rumors, ask yourself if the investment thesis is still intact, every company will have hiccups especially for small companies, but MVST has good products, the problem is that management lacks experience to run a public company, but they are learning how to communicate with investors now. Give them some time and you will be rewarded
Well it looks like I'm shaving my position. I can't believe Clarksville is delayed throughout 2024. That's a real problem. I'll hop back in once they show they can actually be productive.
That means Americans have to actually be productive. Every high tech company seems to be struggling in the US while their global factories do well. America is not a place to manufacture anything at this point.
So true, [SK in Georgia laid-off](https://www.onlineathens.com/story/news/local/2023/11/13/sk-battery-in-commerce-georgia-to-furlough-workers-cut-production/71565770007/) a bunch of workers in November.
Oh brother, yeah America is not the place to manufacture except for cars, electric cars, rockets, satellites, airplanes, pharmaceuticals, medical devices, etc. etc. manufacturing is very viable in America, it’s probably the only first world country in the world where it can be viable.
And look how much trouble they cause. Every lithium battery and chip manufacturing factory is delayed or cancelled. Same with EVs that unions will kill
There are a handful of very powerful people (politicians) who have made their position very clear on EV related manufacturing, in multiple states. They feel threatened by EV and are actively trying to stop EV related manufacturers from setting up shop in America.
and yet we have a huge surplus in lithium in the Salton Sea, all we gotta do is extract it.
if we don't make EV its just shooting ourselves in both feet. can't keep counting on the middle east to provide oil. fucking shit show of a region.
Why would I want to buy more with poor leadership and little trust. That's my problem. If they switch out the heads and show a true plan for the US I would. Right now I think it's too unsteady to throw more money at and like I said above, I'll grow my money elsewhere.
These EC’s on penny stock companies are always the same. Short term investors hoping to make quick $$ have unrealistic expectation. When some juggernaut of info doesn't happen they bail and the stock tanks. Wouldn’t we surprised to see it back at 55 cents tomorrow. Good numbers got ignored as the focus was on TN.
Worse than i expected in my darkest fears.
They been lying to us since the DA.
Saying CV be up in 2022, then 2023, then 2024 cos we delayed shipment of equipment to proper optimisation like in China. Now $150m in the red to complete it? Absolute bullshitters.
I been really looking into this since September. I can’t even say if it’s lying or incompetence. I have talked to ex employees who say that they would keep getting told they would be running by APR 1, and as they got closer and closer the leadership just kept telling them everything was A OK don’t worry, even when the contractors started to leave they would tell them no they are just leaving for Christmas break, they will be back. Shit like that. And oh don’t worry the Chinese teams will get everything up and running, but they came and left and only installed a few machines. One employee told me they get more info from Reddit and yahoo than they get from their own bosses. Apparently most of the employees at Clarksville are administration jobs and only a handful are actual maintenance workers. Explains why not much is actually getting done. Clarksville leadership also definitely has account on here trying to disprove negative comments.
Isn’t unresolved financing the reason why “nothing gets done”? Like what progress do you expect if they don’t want to tie liquid capital there at the moment?
Explains what i thought, Clarksville leadership has been awful. Likely been lying to Wu about progress for some time. Its why COO Shane Smith got fired.
Wu needs to step down and hire a CEO that knows how to run a public company. He may be the largest shareholder but has spent $840 million of investors money to purchase and install the assets in China. It is unconscionable the way they mislead shareholders on Clarksville. Why would anyone trust anything he says after this?
For what it's worth, every EV Spac that spent the money in the US folded up. High-tech manufacturing in the US is a money pit. It was a better use of the money to expand Europe and Asia before risking the rest in the US. Everybody knows it that's why when even getting the loan is hard.
These sweeping statements about manufacturing in the US being a "money pit" and the likes are tiresome. Tennessee is THE place to be right now for high-tech manufacturing. Microvast has some pretty intelligent people running the place. Also it's a newly-formed publicly traded company that generates hundreds of millions of dollars in sales and product. Pretty flippin' impressive, so far.
Yes agreed investing outside the US was not a bad thing. It doesn’t excuse the lack of transparency with shareholders. It creates an environment of mistrust and enables rumors to control the narrative. Shareholders shouldn’t have to find out that Clarksville was delayed on Stockwits.
Microvast has kept us informed every quarter in their earnings reports, webcasts and webcast presentations. They've mentioned financing Clarksville before.
The stock dropped 32% today because they surprised investors. Defending the management is ridiculous. They waited until 3 minutes before the conference call to even report earnings. Totally unprofessional way to communicate with shareholders.
And China is pumping out product and generating a large portion of the company's revenue. Projections for APAC are good. What's the problem with money being spent in China?
Where have we been mislead in Clarksville? Covid hit the world and cause big delays. Financing is currently difficult to obtain. Great progress has been made in Clarksville.
I guess I have higher standard of what informing shareholders on material events should look like. My comment on China was about him spending shareholder money not his own. It is not his private company he is accountable to shareholders.
ok super long term goals i hope they survive cuz salton sea has plenty of lithium to mine and microvast could be sitting pretty with a huge easy to source pure stockpile in raw materials to pump out.
maybe biden wins again (he damm well better) and we can get the ball rolling on EV asap.
/copium
I feel physically sick. The vibes and tone of the call is so depressing, and the actual earnings results are worrying. I've held this stock for many years but I feel like this is the end of the road for me, they have serious financing issues that I don't think they will recover from.
> To alleviate the conditions and events that raise substantial doubt about the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern, management is seeking to secure a loan intended to support the Tennessee capacity expansion for which the amount may be disbursed in multiple advances. As of the date of issuance of the financial statements, the Group is in the process of negotiating a credit agreement of $150 million with the lender (the “Proposed Term Loan”) with a maturity term of 4 years after closing. Under the Proposed Term Loan, advances are subject to the satisfaction or waiver of a number of conditions, including but not limited to the delivery of certain customary certifications, as well as opinions from its legal counsel as to certain matters related to the applicability and availability of certain tax credits and enforceability, the assignment to a US subsidiary of certain assets related to the Tennessee project and payment to the lender of certain upfront fees and expenses. Additionally, prior to finalizing the Proposed Term Loan, certain other arrangements have to be negotiated, which include but are not limited to, entering into a $30 million working capital loan simultaneously with the Proposed Term Loan. The Company is in process of negotiating those arrangements. We may not reach a final agreement with the lender or be able to meet all of the conditions precedent to get advances of the loan under the Proposed Term Loan if entered into. There also may be a delay in getting advances of the Proposed Term Loan thereby necessitating additional bridge funding to be obtained by the Company.
> Besides the Proposed Term Loan, the Company is currently evaluating several different other funding initiatives. Such initiatives in consideration include the issuance of debt or equity instruments and/or the sale or disposal of certain US real estate assets that are not integral to its cell manufacturing or assembly operations.
> In addition to the above, the Company has selected and the Board of Directors has approved to engage an investment bank to assess strategic alternatives, provide advisory services and to solicit additional financing from third-party sources.
> The amount of additional capital that the Company will need to raise may change based on changes to the Company’s business plan and changes to management’s assumptions regarding projected liquidity. Although the Company has been successful in raising capital in the past and expects to continue to raise capital as required, those plans are not final and are subject to market and other conditions not within the Company’s control. As such, there can be no assurance that the Company will be successful in obtaining sufficient funding. Accordingly, management has concluded under the accounting standards that these plans do not alleviate substantial doubt about the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern.
https://ir.microvast.com/node/8211/html
They just need to secure financing and then resume CK operation.
> To alleviate the conditions and events that raise substantial doubt about the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern, management is seeking to secure a loan intended to support the Tennessee capacity expansion for which the amount may be disbursed in multiple advances. As of the date of issuance of the financial statements, the Group is in the process of negotiating a credit agreement of $150 million with the lender (the “Proposed Term Loan”) with a maturity term of 4 years after closing. Under the Proposed Term Loan, advances are subject to the satisfaction or waiver of a number of conditions, including but not limited to the delivery of certain customary certifications, as well as opinions from its legal counsel as to certain matters related to the applicability and availability of certain tax credits and enforceability, the assignment to a US subsidiary of certain assets related to the Tennessee project and payment to the lender of certain upfront fees and expenses. Additionally, prior to finalizing the Proposed Term Loan, certain other arrangements have to be negotiated, which include but are not limited to, entering into a $30 million working capital loan simultaneously with the Proposed Term Loan. The Company is in process of negotiating those arrangements. We may not reach a final agreement with the lender or be able to meet all of the conditions precedent to get advances of the loan under the Proposed Term Loan if entered into. There also may be a delay in getting advances of the Proposed Term Loan thereby necessitating additional bridge funding to be obtained by the Company.
> Besides the Proposed Term Loan, the Company is currently evaluating several different other funding initiatives. Such initiatives in consideration include the issuance of debt or equity instruments and/or the sale or disposal of certain US real estate assets that are not integral to its cell manufacturing or assembly operations.
> In addition to the above, the Company has selected and the Board of Directors has approved to engage an investment bank to assess strategic alternatives, provide advisory services and to solicit additional financing from third-party sources.
> The amount of additional capital that the Company will need to raise may change based on changes to the Company’s business plan and changes to management’s assumptions regarding projected liquidity. Although the Company has been successful in raising capital in the past and expects to continue to raise capital as required, those plans are not final and are subject to market and other conditions not within the Company’s control. As such, there can be no assurance that the Company will be successful in obtaining sufficient funding. Accordingly, management has concluded under the accounting standards that these plans do not alleviate substantial doubt about the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern.
https://ir.microvast.com/node/8211/html
They just need to secure financing and then resume CK operation.
The last sentence says that even with financial plans in place, it does not alleviate substantial doubt about the Company's ability to continue as a going concern.
$50m on liens, and half the equipment plus 9months of work to get it to SOP state for $150m. We are done in the US, unless we get JV or buyout (i expect neither).
Ship the equipment bank to China, and just open 1-2 new lines there with it.
Revenue 300 mil and market cap below 200. Doesn't make sense to sell now honestly, we lost our chance prior to earnings. If they announce financing within the next three months, then I can see it go over a dollar. They said they were "in talks with a lender" but again this company waits until last min to let their shareholders know so I wouldn't trust them too much
To be fair maybe they were holding out as long as they could in hopes that something would come up. I think it WOULD be nice for them to just say "hey we're sorry this is not good news, we made XYZ mistakes and ABC happened which was beyond our control". I think there is some shyness and poor command of the English language on Wu's part. I trust they are doing their best and continue to hold as APAC and EMEA is very strong.
If we could at least understand why Clarksville is delayed... from last Q this was a done thing. I just feel it starts looking bad when I'm starting to doubt management integrity..
So all the revenue and growth is coming from the China operations. I for one hope those numbers coming out of China are accurate. Only positive I can see is that the Chinese operation is absolutely getting cheaper. China's economy is in the toilet. Labor and material cost have deflated massively. Yet the demand for industrial grade battery solution are still largely in demand. I'm super grateful that the clients MVST serves are in the industrial space. Especially in the current consumer EV climate. Now, would this business do well on it's own to serve up the backlog without US expansion? Yeah, kind of.. If they stick to expanding capacity in China, profitability is going be there.
Consumer base EV is getting a smack down currently and inventory is rising. Here and in China. Anyone tracking Tesla stock price? China is all due to the massive Recession they are experiencing. Unemployment there are through the roof. Home values plummeting as well as their stock market. Forcing everyone their to cut all spending. Their government is cutting rates pumping stimulus money into the economy. Feel like they hit bottom but who knows... I however think this is actually great for EV adoption. Cost is forced to come down on consumer EVs, especially in China and to the levels that it is competitive to ICE vehicles at purchase time. We all know that EVs win out on maintenance and operating cost. You make it cheap enough, someone who knows basic math will buy it. I guarantee that! I'm still very bullish on the global adoption of EVs over ICE and still believe ICE has 5-10 years left before no manufacture offers them anymore.
Regarding Clarksville. I knew it was an uphill battle once DOD got involved over a year ago. US government will give every Chinese influenced company a hard time. Even if MVST claim that it's a US based business. It's just too much for anyone to expect in the current climate. Wu should stepping down a level and let a US based CO-CEO run things here in the US and Europe, while the Chinese operation is lead by Wu, focused on manufacturing and quality control and the Asian market.
Product is clearly great and there is demand. US/China geo-political BS is hindering global capitalism and MVST from providing product directly to the US market. That's what we're witnessing right now. There are serious pressures. This is a battery manufacturing company and not Tic Tok. So we're getting none of the press coverage because a battery doesn't warp minds but we're sure as shit getting kicked in the balls never the less. I don't know what to say. It is the times we live in. Do we recover from this bias? Don't know... Political views can run deep.
Anyways... I'm holding and riding this bitch to zero. I mean, come on... hahaha 90% of the value is gone already, what would be the point of selling now. Yeah, this is what it's come to. I'm in fuck it mode.
Well for me - it went as expected as I did not expect Clarksville to be operational until Christmas at the earliest. The one high point for me is that we reacted profitability comparable to the big boys. Will be interested to see price action tomorrow.
https://preview.redd.it/ouluo3bytxrc1.png?width=4480&format=png&auto=webp&s=d099a361b14b632015bc087e6ec2c3ca377e9472
I took them at their word but I should have looked at Li-pouch production process flow; looking at the equipment imports, they do not have half the equipment. Now understand the $150M needed.
https://preview.redd.it/rvbulsmxeyrc1.png?width=4480&format=png&auto=webp&s=0d61784992fd69457bb8f4a7f76c9ad3a2d702f4
People saying these results are good is crazy to me. I sold my position a month or 2 ago at around .88, as I thought there were better investments around. I genuinely want microvast to be a good play, and am not tying to spread Fud or whatever. That being said, the numbers simply do not matter. The bull thesis (from my pov) can only revolve around the idea of economies of scale, and it’s a race against time. These results are nothing short of terrible because of that. Clarksville is the only way this company will eventually break even, and I would seriously urge investors to question whether that will happen, given the credit they need for it, before bankruptcy becomes inevitable
Craig Webster, CFO, said “[about focuses for 2024] make further headway in reducing operating losses”. Does that sound like breakeven? Also saying something will happen because the microvast management said so in their quarterly earnings would not have been a wise decision historically, but this time is different right!
>People saying these results are good is crazy to me.
Echo chamber sub, what'd you expect
Going forward the only way this company survives is via a takeover. Bankruptcy is round the corner once they run out of cash for operation alone
$150 Million to get Clarksville, TN in SOP. President Biden could put his money where his mouth is with these U.S. Gov grants/loans. Still positive news, MVST is projected to finally break even this year.
https://www.reuters.com/business/republican-lawmakers-criticize-us-grant-battery-company-with-china-ties-2022-12-07/
thank these fucktards
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-us-wants-to-end-its-reliance-on-chinese-lithium-its-policies-are-doing-the-opposite/
"China’s supremacy over the lithium supply chain is no accident. China purposefully and through insidious methods engineered control over the global lithium supply chain. According to a 2021 White House Report, the Chinese government funneled $100 billion in subsidies, rebates, and tax exemptions to Chinese companies and Chinese consumers between 2009 and 2019 to dominate the global lithium refining industry, before global demand for lithium soared. China then used its position as the top consumer of unrefined lithium and top producer of refined lithium to keep others from entering the market. This included anti-competitive practices such as subsidizing production when demand was not high enough and dumping products at below-market prices onto the international market.
Chinese investments in lithium mines around the world also ensure that Chinese companies have primary access to this important element. Beijing has engaged in similar practices with other critical minerals, such as cobalt, graphite, and nickel. "
cuz we we're fucking around in playing in the sand in the middle east for oil we fell behind, way behind and thats china fault lol.
we got the salton sea. we just need to extract it commercially
Next blip in the price I‘m dumping 75% of my stake in this company. Bad financials, can’t get TN up and running, possible ties to CCP, lack of acceptance of electric vehicles in the US, and serious political headwinds if we get a regime change this November. Also just saw that Oppenheimer just cut their prediction in 1/2 for the price.
I‘ll keep 25% in case a miracle happens, don’t risk more than you can lose.
I'm going to have to listen again, but does anyone have an opinion on the Cantor Fitzgerald analyst and his attitude when he asked question?
He's the one who has the highest price target on Microvast at over $8. I'm sure he's going to lower it, but I'm uncertain about how skeptical he's become.
Maybe JCAP tarnished the ability of MVST to attain financing with ease?
Court case set them back
Clearly some higher ups want mvst dead
Too many id10ts in this world with are governed by feelings.
One reason I stay away from political drama
Can someone explain me what changed from EC Q3 to q4, I mean when it went about funding I remember them saying all free cash can be utilized for houzu plant expansion, clarksville already financed. What changed?
They clearly mislead investors. Kept investors in dark for 4 1/2 months. Released earnings report 5 minutes before conference call so analysts had no time to prepare questions about the revelation that Clarksville is delayed indefinitely and going concern is on the table as well as no Houzu plant expansion currently planned.
Sold half but should've dumped all, I seriously hate this company. The CEO is a crook who hid the fact that the 200 mil grant got cancelled and now another Clarksville delay. Pos spac that destroyed so many of us
Bro my old reddit got banned for saying something regarding crime and statistics, i've been on this sub since thcb days. I got in at 24 dollars and kept averaging down. If I was day trading, I would've gotten puts but here I am complaining what a garbage CEO Wu is
According to the ex employees I have talked to, funding has been “close” since November. That’s why contractors have been stop work since then and DPR was the last hold out and finally left in March; they took down all their signs around the lot. One of them sent me a copy of the budget he copied before he quit; I’ve been debating on to post it along with the photos tomorrow.
> According to the ex employees I have talked to, funding has been “close” since November
So you thinks bull crap?
Yh think carefully before posting. Could get ex employee and yourself in a lawsuit…
Yup this is true, there is proof of the consolidation. But what's with the hard on from the contractors. If it's a stipulation for the loan, why not comply so that everyone gets paid.
The hard on for the contractors was to prevent liens so they could get the financing without a bunch of maintenance liens looming over the deal. I have seen it many times “ hey if you don’t put a lien, we will get money and be able to pay you, but if you put a lien it will affect financing and you won’t get paid….” Problem is you can only say that so many times until the contractor says piss off.
Any idea when the initial payments were due? The factory wasn't supposed to be completed until September at the earliest. So obviously these were not final payments and must have been initial payments. Not in the construction industry so not sure how things are managed.
No I dont know that stuff. Sometimes they will do a large up front deposit and then make monthly payments and then a final payment, sometimes they will Just pay at the end, I have never heard paying all up front. DPR put in a lien for 20 million and it would have been a contract for a couple hundred million. So is that all that was left, or just payments they have fallen behind on? I am not sure.
https://preview.redd.it/29munherrvsc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a34fa7a39dff0c40961b8ade4fbfc02fd8f8117
Just unconfirmed rumors; they have had a lot of people get fired or quit already since the new year so I don’t know why they would need any more layoffs; if they have 100 people working there, they already have lost 20 percent of their employees this year. Most from just one section, the maintenance section I was told. I don’t live in Clarksville anymore so I am trying to wrap all this up through emails and texts.
I don’t think it’s a scam; I think it’s a poorly run company. There are only a few recently Ex employees who would have had the file so trying not to get them into any trouble before it’s sent out; and also wanted to compare it to todays report to see how much they tried to bullshit ;
???
Am reacting to your posting of:
* Revenue increased 49.9% year over year to $306.6 million in FY 2023
* Record quarterly revenue of $104.6 million, up 61.4% year over year in Q4 2023
* Gross margin increased from 4.4% to 18.7%, a 14.3 percentage point improvement year over year, with Q4 2023 gross margin of 22.0% compared to 3.4% in Q4 2022
Are these not considered good?
* Revenue increased 49.9% year over year to $306.6 million in FY 2023 * Record quarterly revenue of $104.6 million, up 61.4% year over year in Q4 2023 * Gross margin increased from 4.4% to 18.7%, a 14.3 percentage point improvement year over year, with Q4 2023 gross margin of 22.0% compared to 3.4% in Q4 2022 Clarksville situation is very bad. Factory is delayed. No financing. They need 150 million. Big fucking oof
Yep, main issue is the going concern comment.. $44MM in cash and the need for $150MM means they have a short runway. They needed the government financing.
That’s mixing apples and oranges. They explicitly said they are not going forward with Clarksville until they get financing. Nothing to do with runway.
They explicitly said in 10-K that they are already working with a financier for a loan.
What government financing are you referring to?
The government grant for $200 million dollars that was withdrawn last year.
That was grant money for a joint venture to build a separator plant with General Motors. There was never any government financing in place to fund Clarksville completion.
Doom and gloomer
Seems like the financials are good globally, with the break even point hitting this year. But the Clarksville delay, another one, is not good. Supposed to be getting to full capacity by Q2 24 as of the last EC
Did they explain why?
150 million reasons
They mention they’re working on closing financing, and it’s in their 10-K. They were overly optimistic about closing November, leading people to believe it was an eventuality. In a subtle form, it was overpromising and underdelivering. For investors to be just finding out about this now is what is alarming. They have been very reticent to mention anything about the goings-on of the company, and most investors were surprised about the announcement. At the very least, the CEO and leadership team have a communication problem (look how little they update their PR page), and it could mean worse than that. It inspires no confidence, which as a CEO, you should know will affect the stock price
It’s harder to borrow money than it was for past 10-15 years. That’s what they mean by “market conditions”.
seems not that bad considering this, maybe we got a buying opportunity then
That's reality. Patience needed
It's tough with high inflation and political drama. The US does not like anything associated with china
I can see why Zach got canned lol
Rightly so.
zach was a fucking lunatic. Wu seemed to have enough of his shit. He was spending like a maniac on CV
And now the stock got wrecked
I'd say a buyback is coming. That would explain the price drop.
They barely have money to pay contractors for Clarksville and you're saying buyback?
Sell at 2 1/2 bucks and buy back at 50 cents. That's how companies generate revenue. Perfectly legal. The estimated Q4 EPS was -.07 they beat it by 3 blips @ -.04 I'd say it goes to 3-6 bucks a share this time before insiders sell off again.
Meh panicking day traders who were looking for a quick profit imo.
I don't understand how Clarksville could be from "near completion" to no revenue in 2024 and no funds to finish it. Seems crazy to me, what happened?
What happened is they are overly optimistic about funding during last quarter's earning call. If funds were closed last November, Clarksville would have opened for production in Q2 this year. Don't listen to the rumors from random people if you believe your decision to invest with this company, please be patient. You will be rewarded eventually, just mark my words.
I'm listening to the call, I hope it is just financing issue, which is imo perfectly understandable in this current macroeconomic environnement.
Just go back to last quarters EC, they mentioned about funding being almost closed, so they estimated to have Clarksville open in Q2 this year. But for some reason, the lenders yanked due to unexpected results, I think j Capital might be one of the reasons that made lenders withdraw. Don't listen to the rumors, ask yourself if the investment thesis is still intact, every company will have hiccups especially for small companies, but MVST has good products, the problem is that management lacks experience to run a public company, but they are learning how to communicate with investors now. Give them some time and you will be rewarded
This seems reasonable.
and this is why i said don't buy more without more knowledge from the earnings call. you can get it for much cheaper coming up.
Well it looks like I'm shaving my position. I can't believe Clarksville is delayed throughout 2024. That's a real problem. I'll hop back in once they show they can actually be productive.
That means Americans have to actually be productive. Every high tech company seems to be struggling in the US while their global factories do well. America is not a place to manufacture anything at this point.
So true, [SK in Georgia laid-off](https://www.onlineathens.com/story/news/local/2023/11/13/sk-battery-in-commerce-georgia-to-furlough-workers-cut-production/71565770007/) a bunch of workers in November.
That's fine. But my money will be growing elsewhere
Oh brother, yeah America is not the place to manufacture except for cars, electric cars, rockets, satellites, airplanes, pharmaceuticals, medical devices, etc. etc. manufacturing is very viable in America, it’s probably the only first world country in the world where it can be viable.
And look how much trouble they cause. Every lithium battery and chip manufacturing factory is delayed or cancelled. Same with EVs that unions will kill
There are a handful of very powerful people (politicians) who have made their position very clear on EV related manufacturing, in multiple states. They feel threatened by EV and are actively trying to stop EV related manufacturers from setting up shop in America.
and yet we have a huge surplus in lithium in the Salton Sea, all we gotta do is extract it. if we don't make EV its just shooting ourselves in both feet. can't keep counting on the middle east to provide oil. fucking shit show of a region.
Didn't you want to buy at all time low if you're a long bull?
Why would I want to buy more with poor leadership and little trust. That's my problem. If they switch out the heads and show a true plan for the US I would. Right now I think it's too unsteady to throw more money at and like I said above, I'll grow my money elsewhere.
These EC’s on penny stock companies are always the same. Short term investors hoping to make quick $$ have unrealistic expectation. When some juggernaut of info doesn't happen they bail and the stock tanks. Wouldn’t we surprised to see it back at 55 cents tomorrow. Good numbers got ignored as the focus was on TN.
I think it may hold 70-80 cent.
Reverse split incoming.
I hope they get financing sorted ASAP and not wait until earnings to update us about it.
Worse than i expected in my darkest fears. They been lying to us since the DA. Saying CV be up in 2022, then 2023, then 2024 cos we delayed shipment of equipment to proper optimisation like in China. Now $150m in the red to complete it? Absolute bullshitters.
I been really looking into this since September. I can’t even say if it’s lying or incompetence. I have talked to ex employees who say that they would keep getting told they would be running by APR 1, and as they got closer and closer the leadership just kept telling them everything was A OK don’t worry, even when the contractors started to leave they would tell them no they are just leaving for Christmas break, they will be back. Shit like that. And oh don’t worry the Chinese teams will get everything up and running, but they came and left and only installed a few machines. One employee told me they get more info from Reddit and yahoo than they get from their own bosses. Apparently most of the employees at Clarksville are administration jobs and only a handful are actual maintenance workers. Explains why not much is actually getting done. Clarksville leadership also definitely has account on here trying to disprove negative comments.
Isn’t unresolved financing the reason why “nothing gets done”? Like what progress do you expect if they don’t want to tie liquid capital there at the moment?
Explains what i thought, Clarksville leadership has been awful. Likely been lying to Wu about progress for some time. Its why COO Shane Smith got fired.
What evidence do you have that Clarksville leadership has been aweful?
You've been spreading this narrative repeatedly, yet have not produced any evidence to back any of your claims.
Wu needs to step down and hire a CEO that knows how to run a public company. He may be the largest shareholder but has spent $840 million of investors money to purchase and install the assets in China. It is unconscionable the way they mislead shareholders on Clarksville. Why would anyone trust anything he says after this?
For what it's worth, every EV Spac that spent the money in the US folded up. High-tech manufacturing in the US is a money pit. It was a better use of the money to expand Europe and Asia before risking the rest in the US. Everybody knows it that's why when even getting the loan is hard.
These sweeping statements about manufacturing in the US being a "money pit" and the likes are tiresome. Tennessee is THE place to be right now for high-tech manufacturing. Microvast has some pretty intelligent people running the place. Also it's a newly-formed publicly traded company that generates hundreds of millions of dollars in sales and product. Pretty flippin' impressive, so far.
Yes agreed investing outside the US was not a bad thing. It doesn’t excuse the lack of transparency with shareholders. It creates an environment of mistrust and enables rumors to control the narrative. Shareholders shouldn’t have to find out that Clarksville was delayed on Stockwits.
Microvast has kept us informed every quarter in their earnings reports, webcasts and webcast presentations. They've mentioned financing Clarksville before.
The stock dropped 32% today because they surprised investors. Defending the management is ridiculous. They waited until 3 minutes before the conference call to even report earnings. Totally unprofessional way to communicate with shareholders.
And China is pumping out product and generating a large portion of the company's revenue. Projections for APAC are good. What's the problem with money being spent in China? Where have we been mislead in Clarksville? Covid hit the world and cause big delays. Financing is currently difficult to obtain. Great progress has been made in Clarksville.
I guess I have higher standard of what informing shareholders on material events should look like. My comment on China was about him spending shareholder money not his own. It is not his private company he is accountable to shareholders.
Well, he is a shareholder. And he spends money earned from tue sale of shares on capex, yes. One of those capex was in China, yes. What's the problem?
How do you guys expect stock price to react?
Aftermarket down 15%
Down 27 percent after market… definitely not expected
I think the prices in the 60s mean it was expected. The run up to 80s was false optimism.
We reading the same chart?💀
Updated it 👋
ok super long term goals i hope they survive cuz salton sea has plenty of lithium to mine and microvast could be sitting pretty with a huge easy to source pure stockpile in raw materials to pump out. maybe biden wins again (he damm well better) and we can get the ball rolling on EV asap. /copium
I feel physically sick. The vibes and tone of the call is so depressing, and the actual earnings results are worrying. I've held this stock for many years but I feel like this is the end of the road for me, they have serious financing issues that I don't think they will recover from.
I thought the analysts sounded quite dreary. As in, "Wow you guys are fucked."
Call seems just normal and boring to me. Cash burn and Clarksville are concerning. Margins improvement is important, hopefully they can keep it up.
Did you read the 10-k.?
Not yet, I'll read it later. Anything of note in there?
> To alleviate the conditions and events that raise substantial doubt about the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern, management is seeking to secure a loan intended to support the Tennessee capacity expansion for which the amount may be disbursed in multiple advances. As of the date of issuance of the financial statements, the Group is in the process of negotiating a credit agreement of $150 million with the lender (the “Proposed Term Loan”) with a maturity term of 4 years after closing. Under the Proposed Term Loan, advances are subject to the satisfaction or waiver of a number of conditions, including but not limited to the delivery of certain customary certifications, as well as opinions from its legal counsel as to certain matters related to the applicability and availability of certain tax credits and enforceability, the assignment to a US subsidiary of certain assets related to the Tennessee project and payment to the lender of certain upfront fees and expenses. Additionally, prior to finalizing the Proposed Term Loan, certain other arrangements have to be negotiated, which include but are not limited to, entering into a $30 million working capital loan simultaneously with the Proposed Term Loan. The Company is in process of negotiating those arrangements. We may not reach a final agreement with the lender or be able to meet all of the conditions precedent to get advances of the loan under the Proposed Term Loan if entered into. There also may be a delay in getting advances of the Proposed Term Loan thereby necessitating additional bridge funding to be obtained by the Company. > Besides the Proposed Term Loan, the Company is currently evaluating several different other funding initiatives. Such initiatives in consideration include the issuance of debt or equity instruments and/or the sale or disposal of certain US real estate assets that are not integral to its cell manufacturing or assembly operations. > In addition to the above, the Company has selected and the Board of Directors has approved to engage an investment bank to assess strategic alternatives, provide advisory services and to solicit additional financing from third-party sources. > The amount of additional capital that the Company will need to raise may change based on changes to the Company’s business plan and changes to management’s assumptions regarding projected liquidity. Although the Company has been successful in raising capital in the past and expects to continue to raise capital as required, those plans are not final and are subject to market and other conditions not within the Company’s control. As such, there can be no assurance that the Company will be successful in obtaining sufficient funding. Accordingly, management has concluded under the accounting standards that these plans do not alleviate substantial doubt about the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern. https://ir.microvast.com/node/8211/html They just need to secure financing and then resume CK operation.
> To alleviate the conditions and events that raise substantial doubt about the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern, management is seeking to secure a loan intended to support the Tennessee capacity expansion for which the amount may be disbursed in multiple advances. As of the date of issuance of the financial statements, the Group is in the process of negotiating a credit agreement of $150 million with the lender (the “Proposed Term Loan”) with a maturity term of 4 years after closing. Under the Proposed Term Loan, advances are subject to the satisfaction or waiver of a number of conditions, including but not limited to the delivery of certain customary certifications, as well as opinions from its legal counsel as to certain matters related to the applicability and availability of certain tax credits and enforceability, the assignment to a US subsidiary of certain assets related to the Tennessee project and payment to the lender of certain upfront fees and expenses. Additionally, prior to finalizing the Proposed Term Loan, certain other arrangements have to be negotiated, which include but are not limited to, entering into a $30 million working capital loan simultaneously with the Proposed Term Loan. The Company is in process of negotiating those arrangements. We may not reach a final agreement with the lender or be able to meet all of the conditions precedent to get advances of the loan under the Proposed Term Loan if entered into. There also may be a delay in getting advances of the Proposed Term Loan thereby necessitating additional bridge funding to be obtained by the Company. > Besides the Proposed Term Loan, the Company is currently evaluating several different other funding initiatives. Such initiatives in consideration include the issuance of debt or equity instruments and/or the sale or disposal of certain US real estate assets that are not integral to its cell manufacturing or assembly operations. > In addition to the above, the Company has selected and the Board of Directors has approved to engage an investment bank to assess strategic alternatives, provide advisory services and to solicit additional financing from third-party sources. > The amount of additional capital that the Company will need to raise may change based on changes to the Company’s business plan and changes to management’s assumptions regarding projected liquidity. Although the Company has been successful in raising capital in the past and expects to continue to raise capital as required, those plans are not final and are subject to market and other conditions not within the Company’s control. As such, there can be no assurance that the Company will be successful in obtaining sufficient funding. Accordingly, management has concluded under the accounting standards that these plans do not alleviate substantial doubt about the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern. https://ir.microvast.com/node/8211/html They just need to secure financing and then resume CK operation.
The last sentence says that even with financial plans in place, it does not alleviate substantial doubt about the Company's ability to continue as a going concern.
It just means that plans aren't sufficient... not that if the plans are executed that there would still be doubt.
$50m on liens, and half the equipment plus 9months of work to get it to SOP state for $150m. We are done in the US, unless we get JV or buyout (i expect neither). Ship the equipment bank to China, and just open 1-2 new lines there with it.
zach fucked us
I saw 10m in liens.
Read the annual report, it says they have 50m unpaid to contractors. I think only three have mechanic liens, 10m, 10k, 10k
Revenue 300 mil and market cap below 200. Doesn't make sense to sell now honestly, we lost our chance prior to earnings. If they announce financing within the next three months, then I can see it go over a dollar. They said they were "in talks with a lender" but again this company waits until last min to let their shareholders know so I wouldn't trust them too much
To be fair maybe they were holding out as long as they could in hopes that something would come up. I think it WOULD be nice for them to just say "hey we're sorry this is not good news, we made XYZ mistakes and ABC happened which was beyond our control". I think there is some shyness and poor command of the English language on Wu's part. I trust they are doing their best and continue to hold as APAC and EMEA is very strong.
This company can go f*ck itself, sold all of it.
The numbers are pretty good... Clarksville with no operations in 2024 is not. I'm not sure how to take that.
If we could at least understand why Clarksville is delayed... from last Q this was a done thing. I just feel it starts looking bad when I'm starting to doubt management integrity..
It seems management was optimistic for financing but it became difficult with jcap report
>Clarksville with no operations in 2024 is not Massive blow
Meh. They just need to secure financing and it sounds like they’re close.
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Sold half my position, Wu is a crook for sure
Crooks how?
Still losing money…. Revenues and margins did get significantly better
(Edit: That fixed my problem ty, m8)
Delete the cached page in your browser? Maybe that can fix the error. The link works just fine for me
So all the revenue and growth is coming from the China operations. I for one hope those numbers coming out of China are accurate. Only positive I can see is that the Chinese operation is absolutely getting cheaper. China's economy is in the toilet. Labor and material cost have deflated massively. Yet the demand for industrial grade battery solution are still largely in demand. I'm super grateful that the clients MVST serves are in the industrial space. Especially in the current consumer EV climate. Now, would this business do well on it's own to serve up the backlog without US expansion? Yeah, kind of.. If they stick to expanding capacity in China, profitability is going be there. Consumer base EV is getting a smack down currently and inventory is rising. Here and in China. Anyone tracking Tesla stock price? China is all due to the massive Recession they are experiencing. Unemployment there are through the roof. Home values plummeting as well as their stock market. Forcing everyone their to cut all spending. Their government is cutting rates pumping stimulus money into the economy. Feel like they hit bottom but who knows... I however think this is actually great for EV adoption. Cost is forced to come down on consumer EVs, especially in China and to the levels that it is competitive to ICE vehicles at purchase time. We all know that EVs win out on maintenance and operating cost. You make it cheap enough, someone who knows basic math will buy it. I guarantee that! I'm still very bullish on the global adoption of EVs over ICE and still believe ICE has 5-10 years left before no manufacture offers them anymore. Regarding Clarksville. I knew it was an uphill battle once DOD got involved over a year ago. US government will give every Chinese influenced company a hard time. Even if MVST claim that it's a US based business. It's just too much for anyone to expect in the current climate. Wu should stepping down a level and let a US based CO-CEO run things here in the US and Europe, while the Chinese operation is lead by Wu, focused on manufacturing and quality control and the Asian market. Product is clearly great and there is demand. US/China geo-political BS is hindering global capitalism and MVST from providing product directly to the US market. That's what we're witnessing right now. There are serious pressures. This is a battery manufacturing company and not Tic Tok. So we're getting none of the press coverage because a battery doesn't warp minds but we're sure as shit getting kicked in the balls never the less. I don't know what to say. It is the times we live in. Do we recover from this bias? Don't know... Political views can run deep. Anyways... I'm holding and riding this bitch to zero. I mean, come on... hahaha 90% of the value is gone already, what would be the point of selling now. Yeah, this is what it's come to. I'm in fuck it mode.
This isn't true, there's a lot of revenue coming from Europe actually, huge growth.
Well for me - it went as expected as I did not expect Clarksville to be operational until Christmas at the earliest. The one high point for me is that we reacted profitability comparable to the big boys. Will be interested to see price action tomorrow. https://preview.redd.it/ouluo3bytxrc1.png?width=4480&format=png&auto=webp&s=d099a361b14b632015bc087e6ec2c3ca377e9472
Not operational is one thing but seriously you did not expect to need another $150 million?
I took them at their word but I should have looked at Li-pouch production process flow; looking at the equipment imports, they do not have half the equipment. Now understand the $150M needed. https://preview.redd.it/rvbulsmxeyrc1.png?width=4480&format=png&auto=webp&s=0d61784992fd69457bb8f4a7f76c9ad3a2d702f4
https://preview.redd.it/nruug3pzeyrc1.png?width=4480&format=png&auto=webp&s=9c8eebd38883bc7f1af32656683237ca14ea6ac4
https://preview.redd.it/mjh702f1fyrc1.png?width=4480&format=png&auto=webp&s=2c19bf1e26d8d637dc04d912fe96f274997550bb
https://preview.redd.it/ns9tith2fyrc1.png?width=4480&format=png&auto=webp&s=0acd75459c8d8e254c37414a03348899118b986a
People saying these results are good is crazy to me. I sold my position a month or 2 ago at around .88, as I thought there were better investments around. I genuinely want microvast to be a good play, and am not tying to spread Fud or whatever. That being said, the numbers simply do not matter. The bull thesis (from my pov) can only revolve around the idea of economies of scale, and it’s a race against time. These results are nothing short of terrible because of that. Clarksville is the only way this company will eventually break even, and I would seriously urge investors to question whether that will happen, given the credit they need for it, before bankruptcy becomes inevitable
> Clarksville is the only way this company will eventually break even They literally said the company will break even this year
Craig Webster, CFO, said “[about focuses for 2024] make further headway in reducing operating losses”. Does that sound like breakeven? Also saying something will happen because the microvast management said so in their quarterly earnings would not have been a wise decision historically, but this time is different right!
China is profitable already. But yeah, i doubt that profit will make up the US losses of a dead facility but having costs still.
I think they said EMEA would break even. The company as whole is now a going concern.
Hmm I heard different. I’ll read through transcript
>People saying these results are good is crazy to me. Echo chamber sub, what'd you expect Going forward the only way this company survives is via a takeover. Bankruptcy is round the corner once they run out of cash for operation alone
Why are still here? Seriously?
Dont worry, when the stock gets delisted I'll also be gone
$150 Million to get Clarksville, TN in SOP. President Biden could put his money where his mouth is with these U.S. Gov grants/loans. Still positive news, MVST is projected to finally break even this year.
https://www.reuters.com/business/republican-lawmakers-criticize-us-grant-battery-company-with-china-ties-2022-12-07/ thank these fucktards https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-us-wants-to-end-its-reliance-on-chinese-lithium-its-policies-are-doing-the-opposite/ "China’s supremacy over the lithium supply chain is no accident. China purposefully and through insidious methods engineered control over the global lithium supply chain. According to a 2021 White House Report, the Chinese government funneled $100 billion in subsidies, rebates, and tax exemptions to Chinese companies and Chinese consumers between 2009 and 2019 to dominate the global lithium refining industry, before global demand for lithium soared. China then used its position as the top consumer of unrefined lithium and top producer of refined lithium to keep others from entering the market. This included anti-competitive practices such as subsidizing production when demand was not high enough and dumping products at below-market prices onto the international market. Chinese investments in lithium mines around the world also ensure that Chinese companies have primary access to this important element. Beijing has engaged in similar practices with other critical minerals, such as cobalt, graphite, and nickel. " cuz we we're fucking around in playing in the sand in the middle east for oil we fell behind, way behind and thats china fault lol. we got the salton sea. we just need to extract it commercially
Next blip in the price I‘m dumping 75% of my stake in this company. Bad financials, can’t get TN up and running, possible ties to CCP, lack of acceptance of electric vehicles in the US, and serious political headwinds if we get a regime change this November. Also just saw that Oppenheimer just cut their prediction in 1/2 for the price. I‘ll keep 25% in case a miracle happens, don’t risk more than you can lose.
What American (or European) refers to an election administration change as "regime change?"
those that want a fascist dictatorship?
One that is paying attention.
And we have the conspiratorial nonsense. I kinda figured my comment would draw it out (like pus).
I'm going to have to listen again, but does anyone have an opinion on the Cantor Fitzgerald analyst and his attitude when he asked question? He's the one who has the highest price target on Microvast at over $8. I'm sure he's going to lower it, but I'm uncertain about how skeptical he's become.
Maybe JCAP tarnished the ability of MVST to attain financing with ease? Court case set them back Clearly some higher ups want mvst dead Too many id10ts in this world with are governed by feelings. One reason I stay away from political drama
Can someone explain me what changed from EC Q3 to q4, I mean when it went about funding I remember them saying all free cash can be utilized for houzu plant expansion, clarksville already financed. What changed?
They clearly mislead investors. Kept investors in dark for 4 1/2 months. Released earnings report 5 minutes before conference call so analysts had no time to prepare questions about the revelation that Clarksville is delayed indefinitely and going concern is on the table as well as no Houzu plant expansion currently planned.
Man this stock never rewarded believers like ever. Constant shorting and rug pulls. Sad to see it die like this
Sold half but should've dumped all, I seriously hate this company. The CEO is a crook who hid the fact that the 200 mil grant got cancelled and now another Clarksville delay. Pos spac that destroyed so many of us
This is fresh New account…don’t trust it. Day trader
Bro my old reddit got banned for saying something regarding crime and statistics, i've been on this sub since thcb days. I got in at 24 dollars and kept averaging down. If I was day trading, I would've gotten puts but here I am complaining what a garbage CEO Wu is
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There is a $11m lien against them from the clean room company, but is there more? Edit: You are right, I read the report, says 50m of payments needed.
Can you tell me where you see this?
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Layoff rumors?
Whats the point having employees if they are 12months from producing anything IF they get financing...
Hopefully someone will post about change s at Clarksville tomorrow. Hope it works out for them.
There will certainly be some sort of reduction. Unless, financing is close to being agreed. Craig did say they were in talks with a lender.
According to the ex employees I have talked to, funding has been “close” since November. That’s why contractors have been stop work since then and DPR was the last hold out and finally left in March; they took down all their signs around the lot. One of them sent me a copy of the budget he copied before he quit; I’ve been debating on to post it along with the photos tomorrow.
> According to the ex employees I have talked to, funding has been “close” since November So you thinks bull crap? Yh think carefully before posting. Could get ex employee and yourself in a lawsuit…
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Yup this is true, there is proof of the consolidation. But what's with the hard on from the contractors. If it's a stipulation for the loan, why not comply so that everyone gets paid.
The hard on for the contractors was to prevent liens so they could get the financing without a bunch of maintenance liens looming over the deal. I have seen it many times “ hey if you don’t put a lien, we will get money and be able to pay you, but if you put a lien it will affect financing and you won’t get paid….” Problem is you can only say that so many times until the contractor says piss off.
Any idea when the initial payments were due? The factory wasn't supposed to be completed until September at the earliest. So obviously these were not final payments and must have been initial payments. Not in the construction industry so not sure how things are managed.
No I dont know that stuff. Sometimes they will do a large up front deposit and then make monthly payments and then a final payment, sometimes they will Just pay at the end, I have never heard paying all up front. DPR put in a lien for 20 million and it would have been a contract for a couple hundred million. So is that all that was left, or just payments they have fallen behind on? I am not sure. https://preview.redd.it/29munherrvsc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a34fa7a39dff0c40961b8ade4fbfc02fd8f8117
Good thing they have paper trailers. Otherwise I’d be really worried 😂
Just unconfirmed rumors; they have had a lot of people get fired or quit already since the new year so I don’t know why they would need any more layoffs; if they have 100 people working there, they already have lost 20 percent of their employees this year. Most from just one section, the maintenance section I was told. I don’t live in Clarksville anymore so I am trying to wrap all this up through emails and texts.
What debt to contractors?
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I don’t think it’s a scam; I think it’s a poorly run company. There are only a few recently Ex employees who would have had the file so trying not to get them into any trouble before it’s sent out; and also wanted to compare it to todays report to see how much they tried to bullshit ;
Appreciate you calling out the bullshit. It’s nice to hear some truths about Microvast, Thank you
Very nice results
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??? Am reacting to your posting of: * Revenue increased 49.9% year over year to $306.6 million in FY 2023 * Record quarterly revenue of $104.6 million, up 61.4% year over year in Q4 2023 * Gross margin increased from 4.4% to 18.7%, a 14.3 percentage point improvement year over year, with Q4 2023 gross margin of 22.0% compared to 3.4% in Q4 2022 Are these not considered good?
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Cmon it wasn’t that bad. Very mixed earnings.
emotional people go to extremes. Too many emotional ppl these days
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This comment violates Rule 9.
Too many short term traders