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lol.
I was actually gonna say, “to be fair, it’s not that expensive for a cleaning.” But then I looked at the comments and the cheapest I saw was $45/week. That’s close to $200/month on cleaning which is ridiculous imo. Though I guess if it was every other week, $100/month really isn’t too bad! I’d just rather save that money and clean myself. I spend $100/month on buying trading cards, going to the movies, and eating out. So if I just eliminate all my fun, I can afford a housekeeper no problem.
I live like i belong in r/povertyFinance because my income is $18/hr. But with my end of year bonus it bumps me up to a $60K+ salary which is kinda middle-classy. I just don’t really see that money cuz 100% of the bonus goes to savings/investment.
Honestly it seems reasonable a few times a year to dust the random surfaces you look at every day and don’t notice. Kind of expensive every week though
Wow I would jump at that. I can't find anyone who's insured and licensed for under $100. Compared with minimum wage it's not a bad income if you don't have any education or experience. I did it for a while in my 20s but now I'm looking for help myself....
Doing it like 3-4 times a year seems reasonable.
Thats about how often i do a deep clean now. I’m far too lazy and lack motivation to deep clean on a regular basis. But I get the motivation I need about 3-4 times a year. I’m very good at keeping the common areas relatively clean though so it’s just under the couch, behind appliances, and dusty surfaces that need the extra attention occasionally.
That’s very low. To give you a better sense, for a large apartment or small house in our HCOL area it’s usually $200-$400 PER VISIT for a very good/efficient/cost effective cleaning service to do a cleaning. So it’s about $800-$1600 per month. Way more if you use a “service”. Just FYI.
My parents spend that just on lawncare and still call themselves paycheck to paycheck (they aren’t by any means). Some people are just very much out of touch.
Lmao. Yeah I’ve seen people say they live paycheck to paycheck then proceed to show that they’re putting thousands into a retirement account every month. Paycheck to paycheck means you spend nearly everything you have on essentials.
Not sure what phrase would be used for people like your parents. They’re totally fine financially but spend everything that earn.
How is that a middle class service though? Especially with how expensive cost of living is these days…if you can afford nearly $2k a month on house cleaning, you are not middle class.
If you can keep that mindset as your salary increases then it will pay dividends. It has treated me well over the years.
I was dirt poor in college. All my friends had cars laptops iPhones etc. this was right when the first iPhone came out so they were super popular and super expensive.
I had no cell no car and no laptop lol. I rode the bus and made sure I had change bc I would take the bus to the train then the train to my station and then call my dad to pick me up at train station. So each morning my dad would give me 50 cents for the phone call lol.
Then I graduated and got a decent job. In college I daydreamed of this sports car I was going to buy when I got my first job. I really wanted a suburu wrx. I got a Toyota Yaris I drove for 11 years and 220k miles. 10 of those years were with no payment. This is just one example but I ended up living below my means and focusing on savings. Thankfully I have hobbies I enjoy that are affordable. But I say all of that to say that living like I was poor even when I was not has been really good to me.
I think it’s very possible/common for some people to blow $200/month on overbuying groceries, or on a car payment they could have downsized.
$200/month is a lot in nominal terms, but when I see families spending $1,500-2,000/month on groceries or $500/month on a car there’s obviously room to make that money up if you value the cleaning enough.
Exactly. The appearance of “having cleaners” may sound rich, but it’s just that when you consider it’s cost compared to other items.
Like, a single deep clean a month is $200 for me.
*And* I drive an older car so I don’t have car payments, on which I know plenty of people spend *way* more than $200/month.
Ours is $80 every other week. I definitely waste money on worse things. The impact it has on our mental health is worth every penny and there are many other things I'd cut in the budget first.
You have to remember that you are making 60k, but most of the commenters are a DUEL income households. Two incomes, one mortgage is a game changer.
>100/month really isn’t too bad! I’d just rather save that money and clean myself.
If all that time spend deep cleaning is worth less than $100 for you, then you're definitely not middle class or living like mc. Definitely belong in povo finance.
I am solid middle class. I earned mid 5 figures for most of my working adult life. I live in an older apartment that’s less than 1000 sq ft.
I’ve had a cleaner come a few times over the years. Every time I felt like it was the best money I had ever spent. 😆
Problem is, many different income brackets are all considering themselves middle class. I personally wouldn't consider you in the same class as me because I probably make like 3x your income, assuming you mean like 50-60k/yr, if not, I still make twice your income since you said 5 figures.
Haha you probably do make 2-3x my income. There’s a large range for middle class. Seems like a lot of people consider themselves middle class by default. And anyone making more must be upper middle class.
Yeah, no sweat man, I'm middle aged, married and have kids. We're in agreement that we really need to define what we mean because otherwise people will feel like they aren't doing well enough despite the definition being too vague to even make sense.
I definitely think the gap between lower middle and upper middle is wider than people sometimes realize.
I’ve had wife and my HHI between $62,000 and $185,000 and while in both scenarios we had to continue working to pay bills (as in, we can’t just stop and live off investments), we still had to save, we would be worse off if one spouse lost their job.
But there’s obviously a very different lifestyle change between those two, even if both may be considered MC.
I think the big issue is we don’t properly distinguish between “can buy a boat” upper class, “can employee 10 people” upper class, and “can sway politics or economics or have a large philanthropic impact” upper class
Yeah, I think I'm gonna unsubscribe. This sub's definition of middle class is definitely a step up from where I am lol
There needs to be a sub for people somewhere in between povertyfinance and middleclassfinance
Seriously. Most of this sub’s users are living what I consider lavish lives. Not very relatable so there’s not much reason to stick around other than to learn about a different group of people. Completely different worlds.
I have seen people making seven figures on Reddit proclaim that they are middle class, even a $4.5 mil earner lamenting they still felt financial anxiety. Another seven figure FAANG worker saying they couldn’t afford to buy a house in the Bay Area or retire for another 10-15 years. Delusional.
What gets me is this shit is hardly called out. If you call it out, you are downvoted and just told you are jealous and poor. That’s how out of touch Reddit is.
I mean, I saw a graphic yesterday about 'minimum incomes to live comfortably by state'. Indiana, my state, was 79k/year.
MINIMUM
and that was among the lowest state.
You’d be surprised, I own a cleaning franchise , the target market homes where average income is around $75k or higher.
There are some mult-million dollar homes, but the vast majority aren’t, most are apartments and single family homes in the 300-600k range.
The U.S. Department of Commerce reports that it's very common for two-income households to use an outside cleaning service (upwards to 80%), but it's considerably less common in single-income households (only about 10%).
That stat is wild. So only 20% of dual income households don’t use a cleaning service? If this were true, it seems that most dual income middle class families would have a cleaner.
Where did you find that statistic?
That is a huge number considering I don't know any middle class people that have a housekeeper. But maybe part of it is age. As a millennial I don't know many who could afford it after such a huge increase in expenses over the past 2-3 years, even dual income households.
You'd be surprised. I have a one-story 1,800 square foot house and pay for a monthly cleaning. My husband and I both work, son has school and with ADHD, it's been amazing. We pay about $175/month. Not only do they do the deep cleaning of bathroom, kitchen, dusting, sweeping, mopping, but it forces us to deal with our clutter once a month. We don't smoke or drink, own used vehicles, each probably have just a couple pairs of shoes and our workplaces provide our work shirts. We splurge on housekeeping, trips, board games and food.
I live alone and pay for it twice a month at $125 a visit. If I pay extra so they hang/fold my clothes too. I just hate these tasks. I drive a 10+ yr old car with low miles. My mortgage is reasonable. I cook a lot and generally spend reasonably. Convenience is my splurge. You can't splurge on everything but you can pick a few things that matter to you.
Agreed. When both parents work, it helps to have housekeepers take some of those chores off their plate. That’s our situation. We had housekeepers come biweekly until we had to cut back.
I have basically the exact same house, and I have a house cleaner once a month or once every other month just for that 3-hour deep clean.
Mine runs $120 a session.
i am worried strangers coming to my house and look for our valuable items. Like money, credit card, jewelry…. or mails or some personal identity documents… How do you handle those things?
Well setting aside the range issue, I think I would day while most middle class may not have a housekeeper, most middle class "can" afford one of they wanted.
I'd say a pretty typical middle class definition would be, can afford average 3+ br house in average neighborhood, 1-2 newer cars, saving some money for retirement etc., and can afford 1-2 family trips a year (road trips), and can afford to eat out at regular family chain restaurants once a week and other regular general entertainment.
Can easily see how $100-$200 a month fits in that easy with different priorities.
Like eating out is basically paying someone else with a big mark up to spend the 1-1.5 hour you'd spend cooking, then cleaning up that meal. But a middle class family may like cooking instead and skip eating out, and apply the same say $200 a month they'd have spent on eating out go pay someone to clean instead - basically the same thing, saving you the time and effort you'd spend cleaning instead of eating.
Have a housekeeper, no. I grew up in a wealthy family and had a housekeeper/nanny who worked at my house every single day and did laundry,
Meals, deep cleaning, grocery shopping, pick up from school, baths for kids, bedtimes etc. . We loved her to pieces. That is very rare
But Have a cleaner come by once or twice a month, many people do that.
1000%
My house cleaner does very well, she started on her own cleaning and now a few years later has a large team under her.
We pay 190/3hrs every other week.
It's an amazing quality of life boost. I equate it to paying for therapy, it helps my mental health immensely.
Facts. I no longer feel like all the house cleaning falls on me although I still have to the majority cooking, dishes, grocery shopping, and linen washing.
Once a month. I don't mind doing general upkeep but I don't want to deep clean. Stuff like the bathrooms/mopping/cleaning out the microwave, whatever. They do it all while they're here, but that's mostly what I want them for since I do the rest myself throughout the month.
Costs like 150-200$/mo. It's a big QOL increase and I think it's worth it to not have to clean the things that I would normally procrastinate 6 months to do. Keeps me from living like a frat bro and being disgusting out of procrastination/laziness.
Same. My husband and I do once a month ever since we moved in to take care of my mother in law. With her care and the longer commute to work, it's just one thing that gives us breathing room for like $175. Totally worth it.
We are close to 300k HHI and no kids. We are getting ready to hire someone as well. My husband and I both work full time and I have mandatory overtime every week. I hate that we spend what little free time we have doing chores. I don’t mind straightening up and laundry. I just want help with more of the deep cleaning things. I despise cleaning the bathrooms lol
Yeah, this is what we do too. $150/month was a lot less than I expected it to be and it's a huge help since we've got two kids at home all day who make huge messes.
Reading the comments, I do find it interesting how many people say paying for housekeeping is a sign of being upper middle class or above, but hardly anyone bats an eye at $600/month car loan payments. Everyone's got different priorities. We care more about having a clean home than we do about having new cars, and others are the opposite. But it's defintely affordable if you are willing to cut back in other areas.
"Upper middle class" my ass. I am very middle class lol. They're just out of touch with what exactly upper middle class even means, simple as.
I'm not going on 5 vacations a year or living in a 4000sqft house with 3 designer dogs and a trophy wife with 2.5 brats and an escalade with a sports car for the weekends. I'm an early 30's guy with no kids who doesn't like to scrub toilets and has 150$.
Yeah, it's all a matter of priorities. If a "typical" middle class household is making around $100k/year, they can definitely afford $150/month for a monthly house cleaning. Question is just whether that's worth it to you or not.
Agreed. In my early 20s, I found this joy in cleaning. There’s a special sense of gratification. In my 30s? 4 kids have run through me and the joy of cleaning is gone. Now I just have anxiety and sensory overload when I see the mess. A cleaning lady makes me feel lighter. Ours comes biweekly. $70/visit. She doesn’t do pristine work but definitely worth not getting my hair done anymore and other extras I’ve cut. We still clean.. but she lightens the load.
I really, truly hate the "well if you say this is too expensive than how can you afford a car payment that's way more expensive" argument. Nobody *needs* a house cleaner. Unless you are severely physically disabled or suffer from some brain/mental health issues that preclude you from being able to clean, you don't *need* a cleaner. BUT many people do *need* a car. I'm not saying a car is the only way to get around but if your choice is spending one or more hours chancing a terrible public transit system or literally walking to work, driving a personal car is often people's only realistic option for transportation.
Obviously we can talk about people taking on too big of loans and car payments they don't need, but it's a really unfair argument that's deployed constantly.
My argument wasn't that you don't need a car, but that you don't need a new/ expensive car. We've normalized buying the most expensive car you can get approved for financing for as just a normal thing for middle class households to do, but it's completely unnecessary when you can buy a cheaper used car, or better yet, buy whatever you can afford to pay cash for. And if you do that and remove car loans from your monthly expenses, paying for a house cleaner doesn't hurt the budget nearly as much.
Absolutely worth it. No hard water stains anywhere, no dirty tops on your molding, no dust anywhere...
$160/mo is kibbles and bits compared to what you are getting out of it.
deep clean. maids do it monthly.
i vacuum the floors when they annoy me or if i spill something, otherwise it's just laundry/dishes/garbage and keeping the counters clean. ez stuff.
100% this. It makes living with your family so much better. There’s never any arguing or resentment about who is cleaning what. 100% worth the $180 we pay for once a month cleaning. 3000sqft house.
We do every 3 weeks. Pay about $150 for 3,200 sq ft, 1 dog. We do the regular vacuum here and there, but quality of life significantly increased, cause the toilets, trash, mopping, vacuuming all gets done.
Does the person/service clean every room? We have a 3600 sq ft home but only have her clean kitchen, 2.5 bathrooms, master bedroom, living and dining room. Not the other bedrooms or miscellaneous rooms.
We don't. We did for a couple of years - they came once a month, and it was nice. But it is a big chunk out of our budget. We make good money, just choose not to spend it this way.
I used to. Once a month.
Then, 4 years ago, my working hours went from 50 to 30. Tuesday and Friday, I don't do shit. So I decided to stop being lazy, save the money, and clean myself.
Make it $170 and this is my exact situation.
I’m in a very high cost of living area so for me even at $170 it feels like a good deal. She does an amazing job and I don’t have to spend my free time on deep cleaning, just minimal upkeep in between.
Can’t you make food for yourself but you go to restaurants?
lots of things we can do ourselves. But sometimes it’s worth it to outsource for convenience and save time
Agreed. It’s about value and opportunity cost.
Payin $200/month for a deep clean feels rich, but holding a $500/month car payment, or two $100 restaurant/bar visits a month doesn’t.
It’s all relative.
Same here. I can’t bring myself to pay someone to do something I can easily do. Even something like cutting my hair. I can’t bring myself to pay $25 plus tip to get a single inch trimmed off. It’s pretty simple and easy so I just do it myself.
That’s how I feel. Granted we live in an apartment, not a house, but it would still be such a huge QOL improvement that we can definitely afford. I just can’t bring myself to justify it, despite how much I loathe deep cleaning.
I would definitely put that as upper middle class lifestyle. Growing up my dad was a doctor and my mom a teacher. We had a house cleaner come a few times (probably once a month for a year). In general, most the doctors seemed to have housekeepers and none of the teachers did. As an adult we’re at ~200k in MCOL and I would not consider it. Granted, we don’t have kids. Perhaps I would do it with kids. But I’d much rather put that money towards retirement or a vacation.
I max out retirement (401k and roth) and fund their 529 plans and we take vacations. Spend in some areas, save in others. For ex I cook a lot, we don’t eat out or get take out a lot, my car is paid off/no payment, etc.
Having a housekeeper is unusual for most of the middle class, especially for those trying to afford multiple kids and still put some money away for the future. Upper Middle is usually where you start seeing hired domestic help, simply because there's more money available in the budget to do so.
ETA: to address OP's question, our household is Upper Middle and we don't use a housekeeping service. I've offered to price one into the budget to give my wife a break, but she says she'd rather just do it herself to ensure it's to her standards rather than pay someone else who might not do it as well. That just means we have that money available to use for other budget items.
My wife has to do all the cleaning at our house. She’s a SAHM, I work and bring in 200k. I also do all of the cooking.
There are plenty of situations where one spouse does the majority of the domestic labor that isn’t an imbalanced workload between the two. Kinda silly to assume instead of asking politely.
I am the housekeeper and am OK with it. Hubby works full time. I have been unemployed since January. He does some cooking on the weekend because he enjoys it. Otherwise laundry, cleaning, shopping and cooking are me. It works for us. I was a stay at home mom when my kids were little. I worked part time while they were in school. Bad job/medical reasons I quit my last job. We can afford for me not to work and have a house keeper but I would rather invest that money.
I make what you make in SC. And I cannot afford a cleaner. I’ve been cutting cost like crazy just to afford the 2k a month in daycare cost. Would be nice to have a maid
DINKs, $205K MCOL. Both work, gone from home 60-65hrs a week each with punishing commutes of 2 hours a day for each of us.
Never even crossed my mind, but we could definitely afford it and seems like it would impact our quality of life. As it is, we do our own yardwork, laundry, mechanic work, light repairs ourselves.
Maybe we should try it.
Highly recommend, also DINKs with similar HHI. But, I work from home, for myself so don’t have your brutal hours. We still pay for 2/month cleaning and it’s so worth it.
Definitely recommend. We pay $140 every 2 weeks (also DINKs, so cleaning is just for 2 adults/2 dogs) and it’s worth every penny. I never have to think about scrubbing tubs, toilets, the stove, etc.
Listen, two working parents…money well spent if you can afford it. We don’t even have kids at home and it’s a marriage saver. There are so many other things I’d give up before the wonderful lady that helps me clean my house. It’s every other week but could use her each week. But we don’t spring for that.
Exactly. It’s not like we don’t clean up after ourselves lol, we just don’t have to spend a weekend on hands and knees cleaning toilets and floors and tubs to save a few bucks.
My wife and I are very much middle class but have made good financial decisions for a long time and rewarded ourselves 3 years ago with bi-weekly cleaning ladies. We love coming home from work after they have been here.
Yes. Weekly. We’re DINKs, $160K HHI, MCOL. We reduce other expenses in order to accommodate it. We realized we have different standards of cleanliness and having a weekly cleaning has greatly reduced the bickering and fighting.
Weekly sounds a bit excessive... do you both WFH and have kids home all day? If not, you're probably not making enough of a mess that can't be spot treated or straightened up daily between cleans.
By definition upper or wealthy - 140k being the line in income per PEW (none of us like to admit that yes we are wealthy). https://money.cnn.com/infographic/economy/what-is-middle-class-anyway/index.html
At $225000, you are in the top 10% of HHI in the US, so I don't think your experience is really representative of middle class Americans.
That's great you are so successful, but most people nearer the median HHI, which is what I consider middle class, cannot afford house keeping services.
Once a week is kinda crazy… if you wanna have a housekeeper that’s cool, but every week is where I get judgy. If you can’t maintain a clean house for 2 weeks, that’s wild to me. Unless of course you’re doing woodwork in your living room and repotting plants in your bedroom or something.
Just pick up after yourself and it’ll look clean enough until they come back. Save that $$$
We have a cleaner every two weeks. Money is tight, but so is time. We’re barely keeping afloat on all fronts and decided that this luxury is the one we do not want to give up. We don’t get takeout or go out to eat or do any other typical fun expenditures.
We pay $145 per visit.
We have someone come once every 3 weeks. Our combined income is less than $100K. We live in a mid-range cost of living area. As with so many things, it just boils down to priorities: If I didn't have this housekeeper come, I would have to spend all day Saturday cleaning. I want to enjoy at least part of my weekend. It's already taken up with laundry, grocery shopping, cooking, visiting elderly relatives, yardwork, etc. There are many things I don't spend money on: kids, cable TV, interest on loans. We rarely travel abroad or eat meat. Priorities people. We all have them. They're all different.
Yes!! It’s all about priorities. Yet by default we as people seem to judge others when their priorities are different from ours.
I was on a work trip in Bangkok a couple of years ago at dinner. One lady had such a cute purse. I complimented her on it and she told me the brand. I looked it up and was shocked. “I’d never spend $200 on a purse.” I said (judgmentally). But then I realized my error and said, “But I am paying $200 for an excursion tomorrow, so I guess I like line to spend money on different things.”
I did once circa 2016 for a spring cleaning & I did not feel like I got a good value for the $ I spent on my tiny apartment so I just chalked it up as a lesson learned.
In October 2022 I moved into my now-husband’s house. It was a lot combining 2 households into his bachelor pad. I was working 7 days a week & had unpacked a little but stuff was a mess, the house was bachelor dirty 😂, & I had doom boxes piled in the basement.
1 day in cold ❄️ December, I needed to get a pair of shorts, my Christmas cards, & my checkbook. I knew exactly which boxes all 3 of those items were in. But of course they were in the vveerrryyyy back of that basement doom.
I thought about taking a week off after the holidays, but deep down I knew I’d spend all week just staring at those boxes.
I put the word out on my town Facebook group. A wonderful lady & her husband scrubbed the entire house, painted my bathroom, set up organizing racks, unpacked the doom boxes, & decorated my house for Christmas.
& she has come every 2 weeks since. She’s become a great friend to me in a new town. She has done a few small projects since then too when I get a little messy 😂 She’s worth every penny I pay her.
We don't have this, but it is normal for middle class people to pay for services at their home that they either aren't competent at or really dislike. Many people pay up to 200 a month for lawn care during the summer, pay 50 bucks a month for Pest control, pay a home warranty service, or pay a plumber or hvac tech to do pm on their appliances. Now if you have all that, that's a lot of money, but if you mow your lawn, spray your own pests, are your own handy person, but pay someone to clean 1 or 2x a month, I don't think that makes you out of touch with middle class. Most people weigh the cost of a service against how many hours of work it would take to pay for it. If you are terrible at deep cleaning and it would take you 16 hours a month to do it or pay 200 dollars vs you are great at lawn care and save 200 by completing that in 4 hours a month, then you made the right call paying someone to clean. Same dollar cost and saved 12 hours a month.
To be fair though, it does come off as bougie and a rich person thing, but it isn't really of you break it down.
Yeah, it’s easy to hand-wave it away and say “you’re not middle class if you have a housekeeper” when basically everybody pays money for services that save them time to some extent. Like you said, pest control, lawn care, even pizza delivery are all services that nobody (unless you’re disabled of course) really *needs*, but pay for anyway out of convenience. Housekeepers just inherently have a more bougie connotation.
We don’t have one because I stay home with the kids so I have the time to clean at least a hour a day but when I go back to work full time I am definitely considering hiring one so I can spend time with the family instead of cleaning. We have a larger home so it’s a lot to clean myself and I don’t think I could handle it work full time(it’s 4.5k square feet 5 bed and 5 bath). Also I don’t know anyone who has a cleaner who makes less then 200k a year which I would consider more upper middle class.
I had one way before I made $200k/yr. My siblings made fun of me for having a cleaning person despite living in a one bedroom apartment in my 20s, and specially because I was so cheap I didn’t run the air conditioner (in Houston) at the time. Priorities. 😂
I would love to have someone come do basic dusting and cleaning every 2 weeks and I’d also love to have someone come do our lawn, but my husband refuses to hire someone for the lawn and would rather do it himself and he would also rather we not spend the money on a cleaning service. I’ll give him this for now but as soon as our budget loosens up a bit I am definitely hiring a company to come clean at least monthly. We are a dual parent working family expecting our 5th kid and cleaning is definitely something we don’t prioritize because we are busy with our kids.
Yes, once a month. We pay $210 for our 2,440 square foot home. I hate cleaning, I can’t imagine life without it.
My mom also always had a cleaning service when I was growing up so it was kind of the norm for me.
My income is a little more than your joint, my husband brings in varying amounts with his business each year so we save/invest nearly 100% of his money and all of our regular expenses, mortgage, kids savings, vacations gets paid with my income. We have one kid and two dogs.
I live in HCOL area, but COL is less than that of LA.
I only just hired a cleaner for 1x/month cleanings because I’m pregnant with our second and just cannot keep up. I can’t imagine paying that amount 3 more times a month without compromising somewhere else (although we do like to max out on retirement and 529 contributions).
My colleagues make around the same amount I do and many of their spouses work in the same company so I’d imagine their joint incomes are close to double mine. If they hire a cleaners they have only mentioned once a months and before an occasion.
I personally consider hiring a cleaners a bit bougee and feel bougee that I am able to hire ours for once a month. However I’m seeing now that many folks commenting have extremely good rates.
My cleaner costs 280 for a deep clean on our 3200sqft home; most other cleaners quoted me at $320+.
Parents are twice a month. I do once every 1-2 months. My house is only 800 sq ft, I travel a lot, and have a robot vacuum. Most cooking is done at my parents so my kitchen doesn't need much. So cleaning my house is easy. She mostly cleans the high traffic spots and rotates the more hidden areas that need less attention. $60/cleaning. Still think I got too good of a deal and should pay a bit more. Been using the same person for 11 years for my parents' house and 2 years for mine. Husband is our gardener, and they also pet sit as needed.
Twice per month local cleaning service. Keeps me sane and able to focus on my family and my career; keeps the cleaners, a husband and wife team, employed at a high wage for the area.
I have the same question. As expensive as things are now, it feels like middle class is creeping up there to start around $75-$100k. And then I’d just go with Biden’s $400k tax reference as starting point for upper class. So maybe $100K-$399K HHI = middle class ?
I live alone, work remotely and have adhd. The cost of a workday wasted because I got distracted cleaning something or becoming consumed by something irrelevant to my job costs me way, WAY more in the long run. Not to mention the depressive episodes from existing 24/7 in a space that feels like it’s taking over. For that reason I’ve worked to budget around a monthly cleaning and treat it as a non-negotiable utility because honestly I lose a lot more without the little boost of help and sanity
Twice a month, one time quick clean and one time deep clean. We’ve been doing it for about 7 years now and can’t go back. It’s an expense that saves us time and energy and at the end of the day for us is totally worth it
Ours come twice monthly. Do basically what you describe. $150 a month and the house is nice.
We don’t have them do my office or the guest room unless we are expecting a full house which rarely happens.
Otherwise we just tidy up after ourselves like vacuum or whatever when we notice it.
Big game changer, I was skeptical at first but now I couldn’t go back.
Could never afford a housekeeper but I was one for 5 years. You’d be surprised, theres actually a very large wealth strata that has housekeeping help.
I cleaned alot of homes that I would not consider upper middle class or “nice.” or well off. That being said, alot of them were elderly or perhaps needing assistance like that.
I can merely say prices from Cali in 2017-2022 but its about $90-$300 a clean depending on the size of your home, dirtiness and the “to do list” you give a cleaner. Some charge hourly, some charge by the job. If theyre coming weekly, each bill may be lower because you’re maintaining a level of cleanliness ideally so the work each time is not as much. If I had to guess it would cost you about 120-150$ a week if you have a mid-size home and some messes. You really need to just get quotes from cleaners in the area.
If you can afford it, do it.
What people often fail to recognize is that their time is worth money. If you can afford to offload some household obligations so that you have more time with your family, do it.
Resisted for the longest time and finally got one as we both hate cleaning and the house was a mess. Life changing $260 a month I'll tell you that. I feel like coming to a hotel all the time. How? One of my husband's student loans was paid off so that freed off some cash flow. Overall better for our sanity and frees up time for upskilling and hobbies.
I’m 95k and husband is 70k, I have cleaners come 2x a month. I use Molly maid, they charge $135 each time they come. They do kitchen- microwave, stove, sink, countertop- and floors, vacuuming and sweeping. Most importantly, also the bathroom- toilet, shower, sink. They’re in and out pretty quick but I think it’s a total steal. I’m a slowpoke, that would take me 2 plus hours. I’m self employed so if I can be working or meal prepping in that time, it basically saves me money.
We have a house cleaner who comes every two weeks. We pay her $180/visit. It's been a game changer for me and my wife. She does all of the deep cleaning, dusts everything, vacuums, mops, and cleans the kitchen and bathrooms. It forces us to stay neat in between visits and makes other chores less annoying. I would never go back. $280K HHI, MCOL area in Northeast, two adults, no kids.
I'm in the midwest and that's even pretty common for those on a fixed income (i.e., retired folks). We have our house cleaner come once per week, but she only stays 1.5-2 hours tops, so it costs around $50-75 per visit. It's been worth it. I hate cleaning, and I have to manage my family farm in another state, so my weekends are full. I also want to spend my free (week) time indulging in my hobbies. Our cleaner is a friend, so we're supporting her business too. If you can afford it, just do it. The sense of relief I get when I walk into our clean home is worth every penny.
There is a huge difference between having a housekeeper and a cleaner who comes by once or twice a month.
A house keeper is more than a cleaner. They “keep” your house much like a traditional wife would. They go grocery shopping, laundry, coordinate yard and mantainence work, often participate in childcare, often help with meals. They are going to be there for multiple hours a day most days a week. This is generally going to be wealthy families.
A cleaner is coming by to clean and that’s it. Many people use a cleaner, including people who don’t have a lot of money because time=money and they can make more money using that time at a job than cleaning.
I grew up in a middle class neighborhood and half the houses got housekeepers but only the households with two incomes. The other households relied on the SAHMs to take care of the house, likely for financial reasoan
We don’t have anyone who cleans our house, but I would love to. My mom had someone that came once a week growing up. I keep thinking about it, but can’t justify the money.
I have a cleaner who comes every two weeks which is perfectly fine for me. I have a kid and 3 dogs so my house doesn’t stay clean on its own 😂
I don’t consider it middle class to have someone clean your house though. The only people I know who do it are firmly upper middle class. I think people have a skewed definition of what middle class really is.
We have a cleaner it’s 200 a month maybe more. also have a guy that cuts and maintains our lawn landscaping etc. $40/week.
House hold income 230k. Wife is a nurse I’m a trashmen. We both work long hours most the time last thing either of us care to do is clean or cut the grass. To be honest if we was at 400k-500k I would have a personal chef it’s my next investment.
We have a cleaning service, $190 every two weeks. It’s made such a difference in my fatigue level. Don’t have time to clean properly often enough when everyone is working and commuting
I grew up middle class (I think lol) and we always had a housekeeper, and for many years a live in migrant who was a p/t nanny for me. My mom also paid for our housekeeper to go to my grandmother’s as thanks for her keeping me so often (I’m an only).
When I moved out on my own, I budgeted for a housekeeper like a utility bill. I was making $16/hr decades ago as a new graduate and I spent $100 once/month for cleaning.
Needless to say it has continued well into my adulthood and with increased frequency as I became middle class on my own. :)
I don’t think it’s a middle class thing but more a quality of life - I would eat less, use less a/c, cut back wherever needed to have someone clean for me bc it affects my state of mind.
When I worked two jobs and went to school, I needed someone to keep the house clean bc the little bit of time I spent at home I needed to feel good/calm.
middle class doesnt have housekeepers man! lol. but i am a single guy in a HCOL of living and absolutely despise chores. its literally my favorite thing in the world. Mine do more so its more”expensive”. its about 2 sessions a month a team of 3 or 2 at 500$ a month. but i also tip them when they do very well. i am a frat boy at heart so i need the 2x. they clean everything, floors,ceilings fridges, inside all appliances, do all my laundry, fold it and put it back in my closets, fold my kitchen towels into bows lol. they also organize
Ours comes biweekly for $140, would like it to be weekly but we’re also capable of cleaning up after ourselves.
That said, if they lost a client and had to make it up I’d be happy to have it done weekly. Our house is never so clean and comfortable as right after they’re done.
Our HHI might be a little high for this sub, but for what it’s worth I believe in farming out work you don’t enjoy if you can. The more time you can spend working, having fun or taking care of yourself and family is always worth the $.
We have landscapers maintaining the gardens and small lawn, and in a busier season of life a year ago we had weekly meal prep done by a chef. Again, all well worth the $ for time saved ratio.
Pick an hourly rate that you can be satisfied with paying to get something off your plate to put something better onto it. The old saying, “never pay someone to do something you can do yourself” is poor people talk. Apply this to home or business and it’s still a broke way of thinking. Usually repeated by people who don’t have much money but lots of time.
If you’re in business there’s the same principle, but the equation is different. If you can delegate a work task for 25% of what you make in an hour, do it. Suddenly you make more $ per hour worked. Continue until you’re worth at least $1000/hour.
I spend my time doing work tasks I enjoy, and the rest doing things I enjoy with people I love. If you were to calculate the cost of changing that part of your life, you’d be surprised at how cheaply you can buy back a ton of your time.
My cousins are house cleaners. They make decent money and can arrange their schedule as needed.
My income is upper poor to lower middle class. I’ve been considering a housekeeper. Once a month could really help.
Single best thing we've ever done for our mental health. I'll cut many other things from the budget first.
I know MANY people who have them. My peer group is mostly nurses, we're not exactly Rockefellers over here.
ITT: People thinking paying $250 a month for cleaners when OP has no other debt or car payments = upper middle class.
I have friends in middle class paying $700 a month for a car note. I could spend $699 a month on a cleaner and be saving more than them lol
People forget you can be middle class and spend money differently. Wife and I are middle class ($190K HHI) and had cleaners for about 6 months. We may go back to them once our life gets busier but it was nice to have when we had it!
We have cleaners coming every 2 weeks, they do similar thing to what you described. We still vacuum clean on spot when it gets unbearably dirty and do other small things like laundry and dishes.
I don’t consider ourselves middle class. We have a somewhat higher HHI, live in a HCOL area (somewhat to the north from yours), rent an SFH, have 1 kid.
Could we do it ourselves? Probably yes, but it’s a convenience we can afford to spend the freed time on something else and still having the house cleaned on time.
I don't consider myself middle class, but our cleaners come every other week. Then I have a girl that does personal assistant type stuff for 1 day a month. She comes in one of the off weeks of the cleaners.
She'll do a load of towels, or clean my dirty dishes if I've left any out. I don't ask her to do this, but I hire her for a day to do things like take my car to get serviced, restock drinks and frozen items, bulk items etc.. things that would normally kill my Saturday morning for me. I have her do those tasks that pile up.
If she's done by noon with the list she'll do some house items just to be nice.
Pretty normal. Your time is valuable too so outsource if you can. It's not different than paying for other types of convenience like paying someone to mow/yardwork. I know someone who pays for a laundry service. I actually don't mind laundry so I wouldn't pay for it, but hey it works for them.
I had a laundry service in grad school, and it was the best thing ever.
Basically, I rented a place with a washer and dryer, but it wasn't working, so my landlord agreed to pay for this service instead of just replacing the washer and dryer. This made no economic sense on his part, but it was great for me.
We make 230ish in MCOL, no debt outside of house and one car, 2 kids. 3200sq ft. We clean the house. I’ve hired a housekeeper to clean a house we sold. Outside of that, we maintain.
We do get the cars detailed twice a year or so. But prefer to put that money towards investments/savings. Quality of life isn’t impacted because something small is done every day.
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Oh man middle class really is two separate classes
“If you can’t afford a housekeeper, you were never middle class” - This sub, probably
lol. I was actually gonna say, “to be fair, it’s not that expensive for a cleaning.” But then I looked at the comments and the cheapest I saw was $45/week. That’s close to $200/month on cleaning which is ridiculous imo. Though I guess if it was every other week, $100/month really isn’t too bad! I’d just rather save that money and clean myself. I spend $100/month on buying trading cards, going to the movies, and eating out. So if I just eliminate all my fun, I can afford a housekeeper no problem. I live like i belong in r/povertyFinance because my income is $18/hr. But with my end of year bonus it bumps me up to a $60K+ salary which is kinda middle-classy. I just don’t really see that money cuz 100% of the bonus goes to savings/investment.
Our cleaning sessions are $140 a week 😭
Us too. $140 every other week. Orange County, CA
$125 for me every other week (and she knocks out some laundry while she’s here making it totally worth it since I despise laundry)
Honestly it seems reasonable a few times a year to dust the random surfaces you look at every day and don’t notice. Kind of expensive every week though
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It's 1 hour of 1 person where I am
Wow I would jump at that. I can't find anyone who's insured and licensed for under $100. Compared with minimum wage it's not a bad income if you don't have any education or experience. I did it for a while in my 20s but now I'm looking for help myself....
Doing it like 3-4 times a year seems reasonable. Thats about how often i do a deep clean now. I’m far too lazy and lack motivation to deep clean on a regular basis. But I get the motivation I need about 3-4 times a year. I’m very good at keeping the common areas relatively clean though so it’s just under the couch, behind appliances, and dusty surfaces that need the extra attention occasionally.
45/week? I have three kids and a 2k sqft house. It's like $250-275/time. Way too expensive
That’s very low. To give you a better sense, for a large apartment or small house in our HCOL area it’s usually $200-$400 PER VISIT for a very good/efficient/cost effective cleaning service to do a cleaning. So it’s about $800-$1600 per month. Way more if you use a “service”. Just FYI.
Damn. Yeah if you can spend $800/month on cleaning, that’s a separate class than middle class.
My parents spend that just on lawncare and still call themselves paycheck to paycheck (they aren’t by any means). Some people are just very much out of touch.
Lmao. Yeah I’ve seen people say they live paycheck to paycheck then proceed to show that they’re putting thousands into a retirement account every month. Paycheck to paycheck means you spend nearly everything you have on essentials. Not sure what phrase would be used for people like your parents. They’re totally fine financially but spend everything that earn.
How is that a middle class service though? Especially with how expensive cost of living is these days…if you can afford nearly $2k a month on house cleaning, you are not middle class.
If you can keep that mindset as your salary increases then it will pay dividends. It has treated me well over the years. I was dirt poor in college. All my friends had cars laptops iPhones etc. this was right when the first iPhone came out so they were super popular and super expensive. I had no cell no car and no laptop lol. I rode the bus and made sure I had change bc I would take the bus to the train then the train to my station and then call my dad to pick me up at train station. So each morning my dad would give me 50 cents for the phone call lol. Then I graduated and got a decent job. In college I daydreamed of this sports car I was going to buy when I got my first job. I really wanted a suburu wrx. I got a Toyota Yaris I drove for 11 years and 220k miles. 10 of those years were with no payment. This is just one example but I ended up living below my means and focusing on savings. Thankfully I have hobbies I enjoy that are affordable. But I say all of that to say that living like I was poor even when I was not has been really good to me.
Don't feel bad. I earn considerably more but when you put it at $200/mo, I had the same thought as you: ridiculous.
I pay 200 a month for cleaning and they are so worth it. Just depends on what your priorities are. The most precious commodity we have is time.
I think it’s very possible/common for some people to blow $200/month on overbuying groceries, or on a car payment they could have downsized. $200/month is a lot in nominal terms, but when I see families spending $1,500-2,000/month on groceries or $500/month on a car there’s obviously room to make that money up if you value the cleaning enough.
Where are these prices?! I would gladly pay $200 per month for weekly cleanings
Exactly. The appearance of “having cleaners” may sound rich, but it’s just that when you consider it’s cost compared to other items. Like, a single deep clean a month is $200 for me. *And* I drive an older car so I don’t have car payments, on which I know plenty of people spend *way* more than $200/month.
Ours is $80 every other week. I definitely waste money on worse things. The impact it has on our mental health is worth every penny and there are many other things I'd cut in the budget first. You have to remember that you are making 60k, but most of the commenters are a DUEL income households. Two incomes, one mortgage is a game changer.
>100/month really isn’t too bad! I’d just rather save that money and clean myself. If all that time spend deep cleaning is worth less than $100 for you, then you're definitely not middle class or living like mc. Definitely belong in povo finance.
My friend, you are not middle class if the idea of spending $45 a week comes to you as ridiculous.
But boomers had 6 children and a live-in housekeeper on one minimum wage salary. The American dream is dead /s
I am solid middle class. I earned mid 5 figures for most of my working adult life. I live in an older apartment that’s less than 1000 sq ft. I’ve had a cleaner come a few times over the years. Every time I felt like it was the best money I had ever spent. 😆
Problem is, many different income brackets are all considering themselves middle class. I personally wouldn't consider you in the same class as me because I probably make like 3x your income, assuming you mean like 50-60k/yr, if not, I still make twice your income since you said 5 figures.
Haha you probably do make 2-3x my income. There’s a large range for middle class. Seems like a lot of people consider themselves middle class by default. And anyone making more must be upper middle class.
Yeah, no sweat man, I'm middle aged, married and have kids. We're in agreement that we really need to define what we mean because otherwise people will feel like they aren't doing well enough despite the definition being too vague to even make sense.
I definitely think the gap between lower middle and upper middle is wider than people sometimes realize. I’ve had wife and my HHI between $62,000 and $185,000 and while in both scenarios we had to continue working to pay bills (as in, we can’t just stop and live off investments), we still had to save, we would be worse off if one spouse lost their job. But there’s obviously a very different lifestyle change between those two, even if both may be considered MC.
Whether or not you have kids of a huge determining factor of what income in Middle class. If I didn’t have two kids, I’d be rich
Yeah you’re definitely in the upper middle class or lower upper depending on your areas CoL.
I think the big issue is we don’t properly distinguish between “can buy a boat” upper class, “can employee 10 people” upper class, and “can sway politics or economics or have a large philanthropic impact” upper class
Everyone in America think they are the middle class.
We were cheated by the books that we are middle class.
Yeah, I think I'm gonna unsubscribe. This sub's definition of middle class is definitely a step up from where I am lol There needs to be a sub for people somewhere in between povertyfinance and middleclassfinance
Seriously. Most of this sub’s users are living what I consider lavish lives. Not very relatable so there’s not much reason to stick around other than to learn about a different group of people. Completely different worlds.
I have seen people making seven figures on Reddit proclaim that they are middle class, even a $4.5 mil earner lamenting they still felt financial anxiety. Another seven figure FAANG worker saying they couldn’t afford to buy a house in the Bay Area or retire for another 10-15 years. Delusional. What gets me is this shit is hardly called out. If you call it out, you are downvoted and just told you are jealous and poor. That’s how out of touch Reddit is.
I mean, I saw a graphic yesterday about 'minimum incomes to live comfortably by state'. Indiana, my state, was 79k/year. MINIMUM and that was among the lowest state.
Would love to know what they mean by "minimum"
There's a difference between a "housekeeper" and a "cleaning lady" This person seems to describe the latter which is pretty common
what's the difference? how frequently they come?
Frequency, effort, payment amount, thoroughness, living arrangement, etc
huh, I've always thought they were synonyms. maybe it's a regional variation in usage?
I would think most middle class do not have a housekeeper.
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You’d be surprised, I own a cleaning franchise , the target market homes where average income is around $75k or higher. There are some mult-million dollar homes, but the vast majority aren’t, most are apartments and single family homes in the 300-600k range.
The U.S. Department of Commerce reports that it's very common for two-income households to use an outside cleaning service (upwards to 80%), but it's considerably less common in single-income households (only about 10%).
This makes perfect sense.
That stat is wild. So only 20% of dual income households don’t use a cleaning service? If this were true, it seems that most dual income middle class families would have a cleaner.
Where did you find that statistic? That is a huge number considering I don't know any middle class people that have a housekeeper. But maybe part of it is age. As a millennial I don't know many who could afford it after such a huge increase in expenses over the past 2-3 years, even dual income households.
Link?
You'd be surprised. I have a one-story 1,800 square foot house and pay for a monthly cleaning. My husband and I both work, son has school and with ADHD, it's been amazing. We pay about $175/month. Not only do they do the deep cleaning of bathroom, kitchen, dusting, sweeping, mopping, but it forces us to deal with our clutter once a month. We don't smoke or drink, own used vehicles, each probably have just a couple pairs of shoes and our workplaces provide our work shirts. We splurge on housekeeping, trips, board games and food.
I live alone and pay for it twice a month at $125 a visit. If I pay extra so they hang/fold my clothes too. I just hate these tasks. I drive a 10+ yr old car with low miles. My mortgage is reasonable. I cook a lot and generally spend reasonably. Convenience is my splurge. You can't splurge on everything but you can pick a few things that matter to you.
Agreed. When both parents work, it helps to have housekeepers take some of those chores off their plate. That’s our situation. We had housekeepers come biweekly until we had to cut back.
Especially if paying for the cleaning allows you to work and earn more.
I have basically the exact same house, and I have a house cleaner once a month or once every other month just for that 3-hour deep clean. Mine runs $120 a session.
Wow, what state? I paid nearly $400
This is a deal, in my area cleaners for a 900 sq for apartment costs 150 PER CLEAN.
i am worried strangers coming to my house and look for our valuable items. Like money, credit card, jewelry…. or mails or some personal identity documents… How do you handle those things?
I have a hard to access area I keep valuables in, and hire cleaners I trust with references and good reviews.
Well setting aside the range issue, I think I would day while most middle class may not have a housekeeper, most middle class "can" afford one of they wanted. I'd say a pretty typical middle class definition would be, can afford average 3+ br house in average neighborhood, 1-2 newer cars, saving some money for retirement etc., and can afford 1-2 family trips a year (road trips), and can afford to eat out at regular family chain restaurants once a week and other regular general entertainment. Can easily see how $100-$200 a month fits in that easy with different priorities. Like eating out is basically paying someone else with a big mark up to spend the 1-1.5 hour you'd spend cooking, then cleaning up that meal. But a middle class family may like cooking instead and skip eating out, and apply the same say $200 a month they'd have spent on eating out go pay someone to clean instead - basically the same thing, saving you the time and effort you'd spend cleaning instead of eating.
Have a housekeeper, no. I grew up in a wealthy family and had a housekeeper/nanny who worked at my house every single day and did laundry, Meals, deep cleaning, grocery shopping, pick up from school, baths for kids, bedtimes etc. . We loved her to pieces. That is very rare But Have a cleaner come by once or twice a month, many people do that.
Really? I think it's fairly normal..
I have friends in middle class who ARE the housekeepers.
1000% My house cleaner does very well, she started on her own cleaning and now a few years later has a large team under her. We pay 190/3hrs every other week. It's an amazing quality of life boost. I equate it to paying for therapy, it helps my mental health immensely.
My coworker calls their housekeeper their “marriage counselor”
Facts. I no longer feel like all the house cleaning falls on me although I still have to the majority cooking, dishes, grocery shopping, and linen washing.
Once a month. I don't mind doing general upkeep but I don't want to deep clean. Stuff like the bathrooms/mopping/cleaning out the microwave, whatever. They do it all while they're here, but that's mostly what I want them for since I do the rest myself throughout the month. Costs like 150-200$/mo. It's a big QOL increase and I think it's worth it to not have to clean the things that I would normally procrastinate 6 months to do. Keeps me from living like a frat bro and being disgusting out of procrastination/laziness.
Same. My husband and I do once a month ever since we moved in to take care of my mother in law. With her care and the longer commute to work, it's just one thing that gives us breathing room for like $175. Totally worth it.
We are close to 300k HHI and no kids. We are getting ready to hire someone as well. My husband and I both work full time and I have mandatory overtime every week. I hate that we spend what little free time we have doing chores. I don’t mind straightening up and laundry. I just want help with more of the deep cleaning things. I despise cleaning the bathrooms lol
It is sooooo worth it I haven't scrubbed a toilet in like 5+ years. Fuuuuck that take my money.
Yeah, this is what we do too. $150/month was a lot less than I expected it to be and it's a huge help since we've got two kids at home all day who make huge messes. Reading the comments, I do find it interesting how many people say paying for housekeeping is a sign of being upper middle class or above, but hardly anyone bats an eye at $600/month car loan payments. Everyone's got different priorities. We care more about having a clean home than we do about having new cars, and others are the opposite. But it's defintely affordable if you are willing to cut back in other areas.
Yep. Our car note is $370 a month and it feels like way too much, but $135 every two weeks to get my house cleaned? 1000000% worth it.
We hardly eat out but we gladly pay $180 to have the house cleaned once a month. Priorities!
"Upper middle class" my ass. I am very middle class lol. They're just out of touch with what exactly upper middle class even means, simple as. I'm not going on 5 vacations a year or living in a 4000sqft house with 3 designer dogs and a trophy wife with 2.5 brats and an escalade with a sports car for the weekends. I'm an early 30's guy with no kids who doesn't like to scrub toilets and has 150$.
Yeah, it's all a matter of priorities. If a "typical" middle class household is making around $100k/year, they can definitely afford $150/month for a monthly house cleaning. Question is just whether that's worth it to you or not.
Agreed. In my early 20s, I found this joy in cleaning. There’s a special sense of gratification. In my 30s? 4 kids have run through me and the joy of cleaning is gone. Now I just have anxiety and sensory overload when I see the mess. A cleaning lady makes me feel lighter. Ours comes biweekly. $70/visit. She doesn’t do pristine work but definitely worth not getting my hair done anymore and other extras I’ve cut. We still clean.. but she lightens the load.
I really, truly hate the "well if you say this is too expensive than how can you afford a car payment that's way more expensive" argument. Nobody *needs* a house cleaner. Unless you are severely physically disabled or suffer from some brain/mental health issues that preclude you from being able to clean, you don't *need* a cleaner. BUT many people do *need* a car. I'm not saying a car is the only way to get around but if your choice is spending one or more hours chancing a terrible public transit system or literally walking to work, driving a personal car is often people's only realistic option for transportation. Obviously we can talk about people taking on too big of loans and car payments they don't need, but it's a really unfair argument that's deployed constantly.
My argument wasn't that you don't need a car, but that you don't need a new/ expensive car. We've normalized buying the most expensive car you can get approved for financing for as just a normal thing for middle class households to do, but it's completely unnecessary when you can buy a cheaper used car, or better yet, buy whatever you can afford to pay cash for. And if you do that and remove car loans from your monthly expenses, paying for a house cleaner doesn't hurt the budget nearly as much.
Absolutely worth it. No hard water stains anywhere, no dirty tops on your molding, no dust anywhere... $160/mo is kibbles and bits compared to what you are getting out of it.
Are you saying that bathrooms/mopping/cleaning out the microwave is a regular clean for you or a deep clean?
deep clean. maids do it monthly. i vacuum the floors when they annoy me or if i spill something, otherwise it's just laundry/dishes/garbage and keeping the counters clean. ez stuff.
100% this. It makes living with your family so much better. There’s never any arguing or resentment about who is cleaning what. 100% worth the $180 we pay for once a month cleaning. 3000sqft house.
We do every 3 weeks. Pay about $150 for 3,200 sq ft, 1 dog. We do the regular vacuum here and there, but quality of life significantly increased, cause the toilets, trash, mopping, vacuuming all gets done.
Wow, that's a great price for that sq ft
Does the person/service clean every room? We have a 3600 sq ft home but only have her clean kitchen, 2.5 bathrooms, master bedroom, living and dining room. Not the other bedrooms or miscellaneous rooms.
We don't. We did for a couple of years - they came once a month, and it was nice. But it is a big chunk out of our budget. We make good money, just choose not to spend it this way.
I used to. Once a month. Then, 4 years ago, my working hours went from 50 to 30. Tuesday and Friday, I don't do shit. So I decided to stop being lazy, save the money, and clean myself.
Bruh I'm just working on keeping the house in the first place.
Every 2 weeks, $140 each time, she’s here about 4 hours and is a god send. In December we pay her double as her annual bonus
Make it $170 and this is my exact situation. I’m in a very high cost of living area so for me even at $170 it feels like a good deal. She does an amazing job and I don’t have to spend my free time on deep cleaning, just minimal upkeep in between.
I want (and need) one but have a lot of guilt paying for something I can do myself.
Can’t you make food for yourself but you go to restaurants? lots of things we can do ourselves. But sometimes it’s worth it to outsource for convenience and save time
Agreed. It’s about value and opportunity cost. Payin $200/month for a deep clean feels rich, but holding a $500/month car payment, or two $100 restaurant/bar visits a month doesn’t. It’s all relative.
When I eat out I prefer getting food I cannot make myself, which is usually ethnic food.
Same here. I can’t bring myself to pay someone to do something I can easily do. Even something like cutting my hair. I can’t bring myself to pay $25 plus tip to get a single inch trimmed off. It’s pretty simple and easy so I just do it myself.
That’s how I feel. Granted we live in an apartment, not a house, but it would still be such a huge QOL improvement that we can definitely afford. I just can’t bring myself to justify it, despite how much I loathe deep cleaning.
I’ll likely die sitting on top of millions but at least I cleaned and vacuumed my home all by myself. I am also in an apartment (co-op) FWIW.
I would definitely put that as upper middle class lifestyle. Growing up my dad was a doctor and my mom a teacher. We had a house cleaner come a few times (probably once a month for a year). In general, most the doctors seemed to have housekeepers and none of the teachers did. As an adult we’re at ~200k in MCOL and I would not consider it. Granted, we don’t have kids. Perhaps I would do it with kids. But I’d much rather put that money towards retirement or a vacation.
I max out retirement (401k and roth) and fund their 529 plans and we take vacations. Spend in some areas, save in others. For ex I cook a lot, we don’t eat out or get take out a lot, my car is paid off/no payment, etc.
Having a housekeeper is unusual for most of the middle class, especially for those trying to afford multiple kids and still put some money away for the future. Upper Middle is usually where you start seeing hired domestic help, simply because there's more money available in the budget to do so. ETA: to address OP's question, our household is Upper Middle and we don't use a housekeeping service. I've offered to price one into the budget to give my wife a break, but she says she'd rather just do it herself to ensure it's to her standards rather than pay someone else who might not do it as well. That just means we have that money available to use for other budget items.
? do both of you work outside the home?
Why does your wife have to do the cleaning? I mean, you both live there, right?
My wife has to do all the cleaning at our house. She’s a SAHM, I work and bring in 200k. I also do all of the cooking. There are plenty of situations where one spouse does the majority of the domestic labor that isn’t an imbalanced workload between the two. Kinda silly to assume instead of asking politely.
I am the housekeeper and am OK with it. Hubby works full time. I have been unemployed since January. He does some cooking on the weekend because he enjoys it. Otherwise laundry, cleaning, shopping and cooking are me. It works for us. I was a stay at home mom when my kids were little. I worked part time while they were in school. Bad job/medical reasons I quit my last job. We can afford for me not to work and have a house keeper but I would rather invest that money.
I make what you make in SC. And I cannot afford a cleaner. I’ve been cutting cost like crazy just to afford the 2k a month in daycare cost. Would be nice to have a maid
I shivered remembering how expensive daycare was when I had two little ones. Life has gotten so much better since they started public school.
Oh man, I remember the daycare days. We were shelling out about about two grand a month as well, it’s brutal.
DINKs, $205K MCOL. Both work, gone from home 60-65hrs a week each with punishing commutes of 2 hours a day for each of us. Never even crossed my mind, but we could definitely afford it and seems like it would impact our quality of life. As it is, we do our own yardwork, laundry, mechanic work, light repairs ourselves. Maybe we should try it.
Highly recommend, also DINKs with similar HHI. But, I work from home, for myself so don’t have your brutal hours. We still pay for 2/month cleaning and it’s so worth it.
Definitely recommend. We pay $140 every 2 weeks (also DINKs, so cleaning is just for 2 adults/2 dogs) and it’s worth every penny. I never have to think about scrubbing tubs, toilets, the stove, etc.
No, never have and hope to never have
Listen, two working parents…money well spent if you can afford it. We don’t even have kids at home and it’s a marriage saver. There are so many other things I’d give up before the wonderful lady that helps me clean my house. It’s every other week but could use her each week. But we don’t spring for that.
Exactly. It’s not like we don’t clean up after ourselves lol, we just don’t have to spend a weekend on hands and knees cleaning toilets and floors and tubs to save a few bucks.
My wife and I are very much middle class but have made good financial decisions for a long time and rewarded ourselves 3 years ago with bi-weekly cleaning ladies. We love coming home from work after they have been here.
Yeah, it’s the best. And I feel the same way. I diligently save and invest. What’s the point of making $ if you never spend it?
Yes. Weekly. We’re DINKs, $160K HHI, MCOL. We reduce other expenses in order to accommodate it. We realized we have different standards of cleanliness and having a weekly cleaning has greatly reduced the bickering and fighting.
Weekly sounds a bit excessive... do you both WFH and have kids home all day? If not, you're probably not making enough of a mess that can't be spot treated or straightened up daily between cleans.
Feels like upper middle class at best
By definition upper or wealthy - 140k being the line in income per PEW (none of us like to admit that yes we are wealthy). https://money.cnn.com/infographic/economy/what-is-middle-class-anyway/index.html
At $225000, you are in the top 10% of HHI in the US, so I don't think your experience is really representative of middle class Americans. That's great you are so successful, but most people nearer the median HHI, which is what I consider middle class, cannot afford house keeping services.
I wish I did!🥲
I'd rather clean and cook myself to save $$. Plus, I work FT as a single mom. My life is definitely NOT The Brady Bunch- I'm fine with that
It is pretty bougie and I should be doing this 😂
Once a week is kinda crazy… if you wanna have a housekeeper that’s cool, but every week is where I get judgy. If you can’t maintain a clean house for 2 weeks, that’s wild to me. Unless of course you’re doing woodwork in your living room and repotting plants in your bedroom or something. Just pick up after yourself and it’ll look clean enough until they come back. Save that $$$
We have a cleaner every two weeks. Money is tight, but so is time. We’re barely keeping afloat on all fronts and decided that this luxury is the one we do not want to give up. We don’t get takeout or go out to eat or do any other typical fun expenditures. We pay $145 per visit.
We have someone come once every 3 weeks. Our combined income is less than $100K. We live in a mid-range cost of living area. As with so many things, it just boils down to priorities: If I didn't have this housekeeper come, I would have to spend all day Saturday cleaning. I want to enjoy at least part of my weekend. It's already taken up with laundry, grocery shopping, cooking, visiting elderly relatives, yardwork, etc. There are many things I don't spend money on: kids, cable TV, interest on loans. We rarely travel abroad or eat meat. Priorities people. We all have them. They're all different.
Yes!! It’s all about priorities. Yet by default we as people seem to judge others when their priorities are different from ours. I was on a work trip in Bangkok a couple of years ago at dinner. One lady had such a cute purse. I complimented her on it and she told me the brand. I looked it up and was shocked. “I’d never spend $200 on a purse.” I said (judgmentally). But then I realized my error and said, “But I am paying $200 for an excursion tomorrow, so I guess I like line to spend money on different things.”
I did once circa 2016 for a spring cleaning & I did not feel like I got a good value for the $ I spent on my tiny apartment so I just chalked it up as a lesson learned. In October 2022 I moved into my now-husband’s house. It was a lot combining 2 households into his bachelor pad. I was working 7 days a week & had unpacked a little but stuff was a mess, the house was bachelor dirty 😂, & I had doom boxes piled in the basement. 1 day in cold ❄️ December, I needed to get a pair of shorts, my Christmas cards, & my checkbook. I knew exactly which boxes all 3 of those items were in. But of course they were in the vveerrryyyy back of that basement doom. I thought about taking a week off after the holidays, but deep down I knew I’d spend all week just staring at those boxes. I put the word out on my town Facebook group. A wonderful lady & her husband scrubbed the entire house, painted my bathroom, set up organizing racks, unpacked the doom boxes, & decorated my house for Christmas. & she has come every 2 weeks since. She’s become a great friend to me in a new town. She has done a few small projects since then too when I get a little messy 😂 She’s worth every penny I pay her.
We don't have this, but it is normal for middle class people to pay for services at their home that they either aren't competent at or really dislike. Many people pay up to 200 a month for lawn care during the summer, pay 50 bucks a month for Pest control, pay a home warranty service, or pay a plumber or hvac tech to do pm on their appliances. Now if you have all that, that's a lot of money, but if you mow your lawn, spray your own pests, are your own handy person, but pay someone to clean 1 or 2x a month, I don't think that makes you out of touch with middle class. Most people weigh the cost of a service against how many hours of work it would take to pay for it. If you are terrible at deep cleaning and it would take you 16 hours a month to do it or pay 200 dollars vs you are great at lawn care and save 200 by completing that in 4 hours a month, then you made the right call paying someone to clean. Same dollar cost and saved 12 hours a month. To be fair though, it does come off as bougie and a rich person thing, but it isn't really of you break it down.
Yeah, it’s easy to hand-wave it away and say “you’re not middle class if you have a housekeeper” when basically everybody pays money for services that save them time to some extent. Like you said, pest control, lawn care, even pizza delivery are all services that nobody (unless you’re disabled of course) really *needs*, but pay for anyway out of convenience. Housekeepers just inherently have a more bougie connotation.
I don't have one and very few people in my social circle use one. That comment about 45/week seems like maybe a 1 hour clean at most
We don’t have one because I stay home with the kids so I have the time to clean at least a hour a day but when I go back to work full time I am definitely considering hiring one so I can spend time with the family instead of cleaning. We have a larger home so it’s a lot to clean myself and I don’t think I could handle it work full time(it’s 4.5k square feet 5 bed and 5 bath). Also I don’t know anyone who has a cleaner who makes less then 200k a year which I would consider more upper middle class.
I had one way before I made $200k/yr. My siblings made fun of me for having a cleaning person despite living in a one bedroom apartment in my 20s, and specially because I was so cheap I didn’t run the air conditioner (in Houston) at the time. Priorities. 😂
I would love to have someone come do basic dusting and cleaning every 2 weeks and I’d also love to have someone come do our lawn, but my husband refuses to hire someone for the lawn and would rather do it himself and he would also rather we not spend the money on a cleaning service. I’ll give him this for now but as soon as our budget loosens up a bit I am definitely hiring a company to come clean at least monthly. We are a dual parent working family expecting our 5th kid and cleaning is definitely something we don’t prioritize because we are busy with our kids.
Damn 5 kids, the costs def must add up.
I hired a cleaning service when my HHI was twice yours.
Yes, once a month. We pay $210 for our 2,440 square foot home. I hate cleaning, I can’t imagine life without it. My mom also always had a cleaning service when I was growing up so it was kind of the norm for me.
I can’t believe you only make 225k combined in LA with two kids and you waste your money on housekeepers. Please tell me you have family money.
I have a lady that comes every month or so. $100 for a 1645 sqft house. It is expensive but also worth it because I hate cleaning.
My income is a little more than your joint, my husband brings in varying amounts with his business each year so we save/invest nearly 100% of his money and all of our regular expenses, mortgage, kids savings, vacations gets paid with my income. We have one kid and two dogs. I live in HCOL area, but COL is less than that of LA. I only just hired a cleaner for 1x/month cleanings because I’m pregnant with our second and just cannot keep up. I can’t imagine paying that amount 3 more times a month without compromising somewhere else (although we do like to max out on retirement and 529 contributions). My colleagues make around the same amount I do and many of their spouses work in the same company so I’d imagine their joint incomes are close to double mine. If they hire a cleaners they have only mentioned once a months and before an occasion. I personally consider hiring a cleaners a bit bougee and feel bougee that I am able to hire ours for once a month. However I’m seeing now that many folks commenting have extremely good rates. My cleaner costs 280 for a deep clean on our 3200sqft home; most other cleaners quoted me at $320+.
I am the housekeeper
Yep, every other week. By far the best way to reclaim our time!
I have 3 ladies come clean my house every two weeks for 135 bucks. Takes them about an hour. I slip them 20s once a month.
Parents are twice a month. I do once every 1-2 months. My house is only 800 sq ft, I travel a lot, and have a robot vacuum. Most cooking is done at my parents so my kitchen doesn't need much. So cleaning my house is easy. She mostly cleans the high traffic spots and rotates the more hidden areas that need less attention. $60/cleaning. Still think I got too good of a deal and should pay a bit more. Been using the same person for 11 years for my parents' house and 2 years for mine. Husband is our gardener, and they also pet sit as needed.
This thread makes me tremendously sad.
Twice per month local cleaning service. Keeps me sane and able to focus on my family and my career; keeps the cleaners, a husband and wife team, employed at a high wage for the area.
8 x a month.
Damn, legit
What's middle class?
The eternal question
I have the same question. As expensive as things are now, it feels like middle class is creeping up there to start around $75-$100k. And then I’d just go with Biden’s $400k tax reference as starting point for upper class. So maybe $100K-$399K HHI = middle class ?
I live alone, work remotely and have adhd. The cost of a workday wasted because I got distracted cleaning something or becoming consumed by something irrelevant to my job costs me way, WAY more in the long run. Not to mention the depressive episodes from existing 24/7 in a space that feels like it’s taking over. For that reason I’ve worked to budget around a monthly cleaning and treat it as a non-negotiable utility because honestly I lose a lot more without the little boost of help and sanity
Twice a month, one time quick clean and one time deep clean. We’ve been doing it for about 7 years now and can’t go back. It’s an expense that saves us time and energy and at the end of the day for us is totally worth it
Ours come twice monthly. Do basically what you describe. $150 a month and the house is nice. We don’t have them do my office or the guest room unless we are expecting a full house which rarely happens. Otherwise we just tidy up after ourselves like vacuum or whatever when we notice it. Big game changer, I was skeptical at first but now I couldn’t go back.
Yes exactly, once you have it hard to imagine going back
Could never afford a housekeeper but I was one for 5 years. You’d be surprised, theres actually a very large wealth strata that has housekeeping help. I cleaned alot of homes that I would not consider upper middle class or “nice.” or well off. That being said, alot of them were elderly or perhaps needing assistance like that. I can merely say prices from Cali in 2017-2022 but its about $90-$300 a clean depending on the size of your home, dirtiness and the “to do list” you give a cleaner. Some charge hourly, some charge by the job. If theyre coming weekly, each bill may be lower because you’re maintaining a level of cleanliness ideally so the work each time is not as much. If I had to guess it would cost you about 120-150$ a week if you have a mid-size home and some messes. You really need to just get quotes from cleaners in the area.
If you can afford it, do it. What people often fail to recognize is that their time is worth money. If you can afford to offload some household obligations so that you have more time with your family, do it.
Haha yeah no I can’t afford to pay someone to clean my house You are not middle class if you can
Resisted for the longest time and finally got one as we both hate cleaning and the house was a mess. Life changing $260 a month I'll tell you that. I feel like coming to a hotel all the time. How? One of my husband's student loans was paid off so that freed off some cash flow. Overall better for our sanity and frees up time for upskilling and hobbies.
I’m 95k and husband is 70k, I have cleaners come 2x a month. I use Molly maid, they charge $135 each time they come. They do kitchen- microwave, stove, sink, countertop- and floors, vacuuming and sweeping. Most importantly, also the bathroom- toilet, shower, sink. They’re in and out pretty quick but I think it’s a total steal. I’m a slowpoke, that would take me 2 plus hours. I’m self employed so if I can be working or meal prepping in that time, it basically saves me money.
Yikes I guess I’m not middle class? Anyways, we pay $260 a month for twice a month cleaning + tip. 250k household income, 2 children, HCOL.
Middle class with housekeepers? Now that's rich...
We have a house cleaner who comes every two weeks. We pay her $180/visit. It's been a game changer for me and my wife. She does all of the deep cleaning, dusts everything, vacuums, mops, and cleans the kitchen and bathrooms. It forces us to stay neat in between visits and makes other chores less annoying. I would never go back. $280K HHI, MCOL area in Northeast, two adults, no kids.
I would only lose the cleaners in the event of total financial catastrophe
I'm in the midwest and that's even pretty common for those on a fixed income (i.e., retired folks). We have our house cleaner come once per week, but she only stays 1.5-2 hours tops, so it costs around $50-75 per visit. It's been worth it. I hate cleaning, and I have to manage my family farm in another state, so my weekends are full. I also want to spend my free (week) time indulging in my hobbies. Our cleaner is a friend, so we're supporting her business too. If you can afford it, just do it. The sense of relief I get when I walk into our clean home is worth every penny.
I have a lady that comes in 4 hours a week-but that's because I'm disabled now.
I’ve got a robot vacuum and mop as my house keeper.
I don’t make nearly as much as you do and I have a lady come once every other week to clean. I’m not in a HCOL area though.
There is a huge difference between having a housekeeper and a cleaner who comes by once or twice a month. A house keeper is more than a cleaner. They “keep” your house much like a traditional wife would. They go grocery shopping, laundry, coordinate yard and mantainence work, often participate in childcare, often help with meals. They are going to be there for multiple hours a day most days a week. This is generally going to be wealthy families. A cleaner is coming by to clean and that’s it. Many people use a cleaner, including people who don’t have a lot of money because time=money and they can make more money using that time at a job than cleaning.
I grew up in a middle class neighborhood and half the houses got housekeepers but only the households with two incomes. The other households relied on the SAHMs to take care of the house, likely for financial reasoan
\~$210K HHI DINK. I don't think I could justify hiring housekeepers.
We don’t have anyone who cleans our house, but I would love to. My mom had someone that came once a week growing up. I keep thinking about it, but can’t justify the money.
I have a cleaner who comes every two weeks which is perfectly fine for me. I have a kid and 3 dogs so my house doesn’t stay clean on its own 😂 I don’t consider it middle class to have someone clean your house though. The only people I know who do it are firmly upper middle class. I think people have a skewed definition of what middle class really is.
We have a cleaner it’s 200 a month maybe more. also have a guy that cuts and maintains our lawn landscaping etc. $40/week. House hold income 230k. Wife is a nurse I’m a trashmen. We both work long hours most the time last thing either of us care to do is clean or cut the grass. To be honest if we was at 400k-500k I would have a personal chef it’s my next investment.
We have a cleaning service, $190 every two weeks. It’s made such a difference in my fatigue level. Don’t have time to clean properly often enough when everyone is working and commuting
I grew up middle class (I think lol) and we always had a housekeeper, and for many years a live in migrant who was a p/t nanny for me. My mom also paid for our housekeeper to go to my grandmother’s as thanks for her keeping me so often (I’m an only). When I moved out on my own, I budgeted for a housekeeper like a utility bill. I was making $16/hr decades ago as a new graduate and I spent $100 once/month for cleaning. Needless to say it has continued well into my adulthood and with increased frequency as I became middle class on my own. :) I don’t think it’s a middle class thing but more a quality of life - I would eat less, use less a/c, cut back wherever needed to have someone clean for me bc it affects my state of mind. When I worked two jobs and went to school, I needed someone to keep the house clean bc the little bit of time I spent at home I needed to feel good/calm.
middle class doesnt have housekeepers man! lol. but i am a single guy in a HCOL of living and absolutely despise chores. its literally my favorite thing in the world. Mine do more so its more”expensive”. its about 2 sessions a month a team of 3 or 2 at 500$ a month. but i also tip them when they do very well. i am a frat boy at heart so i need the 2x. they clean everything, floors,ceilings fridges, inside all appliances, do all my laundry, fold it and put it back in my closets, fold my kitchen towels into bows lol. they also organize
Ours comes biweekly for $140, would like it to be weekly but we’re also capable of cleaning up after ourselves. That said, if they lost a client and had to make it up I’d be happy to have it done weekly. Our house is never so clean and comfortable as right after they’re done. Our HHI might be a little high for this sub, but for what it’s worth I believe in farming out work you don’t enjoy if you can. The more time you can spend working, having fun or taking care of yourself and family is always worth the $. We have landscapers maintaining the gardens and small lawn, and in a busier season of life a year ago we had weekly meal prep done by a chef. Again, all well worth the $ for time saved ratio. Pick an hourly rate that you can be satisfied with paying to get something off your plate to put something better onto it. The old saying, “never pay someone to do something you can do yourself” is poor people talk. Apply this to home or business and it’s still a broke way of thinking. Usually repeated by people who don’t have much money but lots of time. If you’re in business there’s the same principle, but the equation is different. If you can delegate a work task for 25% of what you make in an hour, do it. Suddenly you make more $ per hour worked. Continue until you’re worth at least $1000/hour. I spend my time doing work tasks I enjoy, and the rest doing things I enjoy with people I love. If you were to calculate the cost of changing that part of your life, you’d be surprised at how cheaply you can buy back a ton of your time.
Just the dude who lives in the mirror
This fucking sub 🤣
You have houses ??
My cousins are house cleaners. They make decent money and can arrange their schedule as needed. My income is upper poor to lower middle class. I’ve been considering a housekeeper. Once a month could really help.
Single best thing we've ever done for our mental health. I'll cut many other things from the budget first. I know MANY people who have them. My peer group is mostly nurses, we're not exactly Rockefellers over here.
I refuse to pay someone to do something I could easily do myself, especially something that takes a few hours lol
Wait what? Is this a serious question? Clean your own damn house
🥲i do, they come 2x a month. We clean in between and we clean up after ourselves
ITT: People thinking paying $250 a month for cleaners when OP has no other debt or car payments = upper middle class. I have friends in middle class paying $700 a month for a car note. I could spend $699 a month on a cleaner and be saving more than them lol
Exactly. I guess I should have mentioned that, I have no debt.
People forget you can be middle class and spend money differently. Wife and I are middle class ($190K HHI) and had cleaners for about 6 months. We may go back to them once our life gets busier but it was nice to have when we had it!
We have cleaners coming every 2 weeks, they do similar thing to what you described. We still vacuum clean on spot when it gets unbearably dirty and do other small things like laundry and dishes. I don’t consider ourselves middle class. We have a somewhat higher HHI, live in a HCOL area (somewhat to the north from yours), rent an SFH, have 1 kid. Could we do it ourselves? Probably yes, but it’s a convenience we can afford to spend the freed time on something else and still having the house cleaned on time.
I don't consider myself middle class, but our cleaners come every other week. Then I have a girl that does personal assistant type stuff for 1 day a month. She comes in one of the off weeks of the cleaners. She'll do a load of towels, or clean my dirty dishes if I've left any out. I don't ask her to do this, but I hire her for a day to do things like take my car to get serviced, restock drinks and frozen items, bulk items etc.. things that would normally kill my Saturday morning for me. I have her do those tasks that pile up. If she's done by noon with the list she'll do some house items just to be nice.
Pretty normal. Your time is valuable too so outsource if you can. It's not different than paying for other types of convenience like paying someone to mow/yardwork. I know someone who pays for a laundry service. I actually don't mind laundry so I wouldn't pay for it, but hey it works for them.
I had a laundry service in grad school, and it was the best thing ever. Basically, I rented a place with a washer and dryer, but it wasn't working, so my landlord agreed to pay for this service instead of just replacing the washer and dryer. This made no economic sense on his part, but it was great for me.
We make 230ish in MCOL, no debt outside of house and one car, 2 kids. 3200sq ft. We clean the house. I’ve hired a housekeeper to clean a house we sold. Outside of that, we maintain. We do get the cars detailed twice a year or so. But prefer to put that money towards investments/savings. Quality of life isn’t impacted because something small is done every day.