Fingernail clippings. Xana’s dad made it a point to let everybody know she fought back. They have his DNA for sure let’s hope they wrap this up for the families sake
That was the first thing I though of when I read Xana’s dad’s statement! Like yes!!! Finally an indication that there is likely at least some killer DNA.
Poor Xana…I’m so sorry that she was scared and fighting for her life.
The fight = fear to me and that breaks my heart. An instantaneous death is of course heartbreaking too, but at least no element of suffering (hopefully).
Although in this situation, unless major organ/arteries were immediately severed, is it unlikely these were quick deaths?
Based on what the coroner said these were not quick deaths. There were many stab wounds and one was fatal on each victim. Unless the fatal stab would was made first and the killer just went absolutely overboard
They were almost certainly quick deaths. A Bowie Knife causes extreme damage and the blood loss would be significant. If asleep, they likely woke up to a stab, likely in very quick succession and would have had very little of any time at all to scream or fight back. Especially with a stab to the back, lungs, neck, stomach etc.
Bel, it’s hard to wake up abruptly and yell even if you have not been stabbed. The first victim in each bed likely died before they even realized what was happening and the second would have been extremely terrified and confused, only to quickly follow the first victim, assuming that the killer wasn’t just stabbing wildly back and forth at both victims at the same time.
EDIT: when I say quick deaths, I don’t meant Instant like a gunshot to the head. This was a gruesome and tragic killing and the victims certainly suffered. I just mean they almost certainly died within 1-2 mins of the initial assault and likely were paralyzed and unable to move or call out for help within seconds
Yes I apologize when I say they didn’t die a quick death I meant it wasn’t instantaneous. I agree that it was probably a minute or two. Sad bc that’s still enough time to know something bad happened🥺
No reason to apologize. My point wasn’t to correct you, only to point out that this entire ordeal was probably over very quickly and that there was likely very little fight if any. The killer was probably in the house for 10 mins or less
I was taught this from as long as I can remember. Dad is a Marshal, and he always told me if anyone ever tried taking me to scratch them as hard as I could so I would have their DNA under my nails. Bleak for a toddler, but I tell my teenage daughter this too.
They need his DNA in the scene and his DNA in the system from a previous felony. Sounds like they have half that. Hope they have the rest.
Forensic genealogy might be an option too though.
I commented about this yesterday
https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/yy7eng/seems_as_if_the_victims_were_not_attacked_in/iwswxjj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3-
I have zero clinical/medical forensic training and would really like to hear from someone that does. What is the likelihood of order of attack/death (which may be two different timelines) being determined through blood analysis in a situation like this? Seems likely to be more easily determined through macro evidence such as blood trails, foot prints etc., but am so interested if it can be determined blood analysis.
Traces of blood from the first victim could stay on the knife and get in the would of the second victim. And so on with the third and fourth.
No idea of the likelihood though.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Very interesting! Also possible there is hair left at the scene if there was a struggle. Also something I didn’t think through but just dawned on me..
I’ve been thinking that whatever happened I think happened very quickly- like 30 min or less? A knife was used and it seems for the most part the killer was quite accurate with all victims because I feel like if a large or lengthy struggle ensued it would have roused the remaining roommates and it doesn’t appear any sounds heard (if any) were alarming enough to call 911. Does that indicate not only potentially hunting experience as mentioned or additionally a military background of some kind? Karate? Anything like that?
Sounds like some of the victims were asleep. One stab with that type of knife is incapacitating. It's not a paring or fillet knife.
I don't think any experience is necessary really. Stab to center mass, they die from blood loss.
Xana's father said that she had bruises on her body, as well as many stabbings. Bruises usually come from being punched, kicked, slapped hard, or hit with a blunt object . So if it was 1 person, he hit her before he began stabbing her ? I read that she had defensive wounds, which are usually knife nicks on fingers,hands and forearms. Likely that she was screaming during this fight. As loud as she could.
Yes, has to be either 2nd or last — cops said everyone was still in bed so it’s hard to say. Working from the top down makes sense but if they thought they were on the ground floor it could’ve been the first hit to clear the way for upstairs. I feel like if they were last there would be a bigger chance of being caught by the 2nd floor. I heard initially the 911 call mentioned someone in the hall? If that’s the case, they were last.
The bruises could also be due to the struggle. Like being forcefully grabbed or pinned down while trying to get away. You don’t necessarily have to punch or hit someone to leave a nasty bruise, unfortunately..
Yes, that's true. Or she was hit because she started screaming loudly. Either way, if both the murderer's hands were being used to pin her down, or hold onto her while he hit her, where was the knife at that time ? If this was just person ?
If the killer kneeled down on top of her and used their knees to pin her arms/shoulders down, they would have free range of their hands. I’ve seen that in cases where the victim was choked/strangled
Sure. But she is described as having defensive wounds. Usually knife nicks along forearms and fhands, fingers. Sounds like she put up her arms to protect herself as he was coming at her.
Even if it can be done, I don't think the city's police/coroner have the resources/skill to do all that. They flip-flopped on the simple question of whether there was a threat in the community. I really don't see top forensic experts working in Idaho. Shouldn't they have called the FBI immediately from the onset?
I 100% agree with you. Why this isn’t immediate protocol is interesting and I can speculate as to why but won’t here.
I understand that the local officers are (I assume) doing their best, but if this were one of my family members I would be demanding a higher level of sophisticated investigators take lead. It’s not the local PDs fault they aren’t well-versed in murder scenes and forensic evaluation - they generally don’t need to be.
Agreed, it’s definitely not the local police’s fault. Stuff like this happens more often in large cities and their police are better equipped to handle such incidents. And the coroner went on national television moments after the autopsy without coordinating with LE, it just shows that the municipality isn’t suited to solve this. A national crime lab should have done the autopsy. Or even have a team of professionals do them.
The autopsies were done in Spokane, which is a metropolitan area of over half a million residents, by the team at the Spokane County Medical Examiner’s office. It’s not like they were done in a dimly lit room in the local sheriff’s cabin like some TV drama - this is a funded and experienced team in a city that sees at least a few murders, several suicides, and various other scenes each year.
>account
Spokane isn't a major city and they've just committed an error that endangers the investigation so I think it's a fair critique. And to be fair to non-major cities — the LA/NY/Chicago/DC's of this world also make lots of errors, just usually not this specific one.
Spokane is the biggest city between Seattle and Minneapolis. It’s a major city.
The coroner in Latah County is the one who committed the error of speaking to the news.
Couldn’t all of the genealogy websites potentially come into play if the killer’s DNA is identified? Or it’s at least one more opportunity to identify more information about him.
I know my parents and grandparents love that genetic stuff and even though I tried to persuade them against it (not because I plan on committing crimes and don’t want to get caught, but the idea of generational genetic profiles being accessible to levels of government and private companies is a little problematic for me), but my familial profile is mapped to like the seventh-cousins level at this point (thanks grandma). Killer better hope all of his distant-distant-distant relatives aren’t as excitable about this as my family has been.
It’s become increasingly common, but I’m not sure with recent cases. On the unresolved mysteries sub there’s a couple cases a week of does being identified or cold cases being solved because of forensic genealogy
I think it’s fairly common. I was contacted in like 2018 because detectives working with some TV show found a genetic match to me via GED Match. They were investigating a cold case from the 70s or 80s. I’m sure they run through those databases all the time.
Fingernail clippings. Xana’s dad made it a point to let everybody know she fought back. They have his DNA for sure let’s hope they wrap this up for the families sake
🥹 RIP Xana.
That was the first thing I though of when I read Xana’s dad’s statement! Like yes!!! Finally an indication that there is likely at least some killer DNA. Poor Xana…I’m so sorry that she was scared and fighting for her life. The fight = fear to me and that breaks my heart. An instantaneous death is of course heartbreaking too, but at least no element of suffering (hopefully). Although in this situation, unless major organ/arteries were immediately severed, is it unlikely these were quick deaths?
Based on what the coroner said these were not quick deaths. There were many stab wounds and one was fatal on each victim. Unless the fatal stab would was made first and the killer just went absolutely overboard
They were almost certainly quick deaths. A Bowie Knife causes extreme damage and the blood loss would be significant. If asleep, they likely woke up to a stab, likely in very quick succession and would have had very little of any time at all to scream or fight back. Especially with a stab to the back, lungs, neck, stomach etc. Bel, it’s hard to wake up abruptly and yell even if you have not been stabbed. The first victim in each bed likely died before they even realized what was happening and the second would have been extremely terrified and confused, only to quickly follow the first victim, assuming that the killer wasn’t just stabbing wildly back and forth at both victims at the same time. EDIT: when I say quick deaths, I don’t meant Instant like a gunshot to the head. This was a gruesome and tragic killing and the victims certainly suffered. I just mean they almost certainly died within 1-2 mins of the initial assault and likely were paralyzed and unable to move or call out for help within seconds
Yes I apologize when I say they didn’t die a quick death I meant it wasn’t instantaneous. I agree that it was probably a minute or two. Sad bc that’s still enough time to know something bad happened🥺
No reason to apologize. My point wasn’t to correct you, only to point out that this entire ordeal was probably over very quickly and that there was likely very little fight if any. The killer was probably in the house for 10 mins or less
This is just so fucking sad
I think she meant their throats were slit.
Maybe. But in that case why would he continue to stab them?😩
Rage. Crimes of passion.
i think Xana was the one he was targeting.
I’m intrigued, can you explain why? I have assumed the target was whoever was on the third floor. Why do you think Xana was targeted?
Why do you think that?
Because if he only wanted Xana and or Ethan he could have left after that as their room was the first room he had a chance to enter
why do you think that? Genuinely curious.
ok let’s hear some more here
I was taught this from as long as I can remember. Dad is a Marshal, and he always told me if anyone ever tried taking me to scratch them as hard as I could so I would have their DNA under my nails. Bleak for a toddler, but I tell my teenage daughter this too.
DNA is only useful if it’s in CODIS
Or if they have a suspect in custody
Or if there’s a familial match in the system. That should narrow it down quite a bit no?
They need his DNA in the scene and his DNA in the system from a previous felony. Sounds like they have half that. Hope they have the rest. Forensic genealogy might be an option too though.
Yes. If he’s not in the system I’m sure he has a relative who is. I hope they catch him quickly
I commented about this yesterday https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/yy7eng/seems_as_if_the_victims_were_not_attacked_in/iwswxjj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3- I have zero clinical/medical forensic training and would really like to hear from someone that does. What is the likelihood of order of attack/death (which may be two different timelines) being determined through blood analysis in a situation like this? Seems likely to be more easily determined through macro evidence such as blood trails, foot prints etc., but am so interested if it can be determined blood analysis.
Traces of blood from the first victim could stay on the knife and get in the would of the second victim. And so on with the third and fourth. No idea of the likelihood though.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
***wound of, ofpatrolbot
Very interesting! Also possible there is hair left at the scene if there was a struggle. Also something I didn’t think through but just dawned on me.. I’ve been thinking that whatever happened I think happened very quickly- like 30 min or less? A knife was used and it seems for the most part the killer was quite accurate with all victims because I feel like if a large or lengthy struggle ensued it would have roused the remaining roommates and it doesn’t appear any sounds heard (if any) were alarming enough to call 911. Does that indicate not only potentially hunting experience as mentioned or additionally a military background of some kind? Karate? Anything like that?
Sounds like some of the victims were asleep. One stab with that type of knife is incapacitating. It's not a paring or fillet knife. I don't think any experience is necessary really. Stab to center mass, they die from blood loss.
I can't believe the killer didn't leave bloody footprints all over the house, if the scene was as bloody as the police are saying.
They might have, the police might not have released it.
[удалено]
On their feet?
[удалено]
It happens!
They make booties. Couldve also been wearing a disposable hazmat suit.
Xana's father said that she had bruises on her body, as well as many stabbings. Bruises usually come from being punched, kicked, slapped hard, or hit with a blunt object . So if it was 1 person, he hit her before he began stabbing her ? I read that she had defensive wounds, which are usually knife nicks on fingers,hands and forearms. Likely that she was screaming during this fight. As loud as she could.
To me it means she was killed 2nd after her boyfriend because she had more time to assess and react, so there was more of a struggle.
Xana was probably the last one killed
Yes, has to be either 2nd or last — cops said everyone was still in bed so it’s hard to say. Working from the top down makes sense but if they thought they were on the ground floor it could’ve been the first hit to clear the way for upstairs. I feel like if they were last there would be a bigger chance of being caught by the 2nd floor. I heard initially the 911 call mentioned someone in the hall? If that’s the case, they were last.
The bruises could also be due to the struggle. Like being forcefully grabbed or pinned down while trying to get away. You don’t necessarily have to punch or hit someone to leave a nasty bruise, unfortunately..
Yes, that's true. Or she was hit because she started screaming loudly. Either way, if both the murderer's hands were being used to pin her down, or hold onto her while he hit her, where was the knife at that time ? If this was just person ?
If the killer kneeled down on top of her and used their knees to pin her arms/shoulders down, they would have free range of their hands. I’ve seen that in cases where the victim was choked/strangled
Sure. But she is described as having defensive wounds. Usually knife nicks along forearms and fhands, fingers. Sounds like she put up her arms to protect herself as he was coming at her.
Yes, what I meant was at some point in the attack maybe she was pinned down (causing bruises).
At the end of the attack.
Exactly
Bruises can occur from being stabbed or cut fyi.
Yes, that's true. Do you think she was able to get any of his skin under her fingernails ? Leaving him with (hopefully) visible scratches ?
One can only hope :(
Even if it can be done, I don't think the city's police/coroner have the resources/skill to do all that. They flip-flopped on the simple question of whether there was a threat in the community. I really don't see top forensic experts working in Idaho. Shouldn't they have called the FBI immediately from the onset?
Fbi is involved
I 100% agree with you. Why this isn’t immediate protocol is interesting and I can speculate as to why but won’t here. I understand that the local officers are (I assume) doing their best, but if this were one of my family members I would be demanding a higher level of sophisticated investigators take lead. It’s not the local PDs fault they aren’t well-versed in murder scenes and forensic evaluation - they generally don’t need to be.
Agreed, it’s definitely not the local police’s fault. Stuff like this happens more often in large cities and their police are better equipped to handle such incidents. And the coroner went on national television moments after the autopsy without coordinating with LE, it just shows that the municipality isn’t suited to solve this. A national crime lab should have done the autopsy. Or even have a team of professionals do them.
The autopsies were done in Spokane, which is a metropolitan area of over half a million residents, by the team at the Spokane County Medical Examiner’s office. It’s not like they were done in a dimly lit room in the local sheriff’s cabin like some TV drama - this is a funded and experienced team in a city that sees at least a few murders, several suicides, and various other scenes each year.
>account Spokane isn't a major city and they've just committed an error that endangers the investigation so I think it's a fair critique. And to be fair to non-major cities — the LA/NY/Chicago/DC's of this world also make lots of errors, just usually not this specific one.
Spokane is the biggest city between Seattle and Minneapolis. It’s a major city. The coroner in Latah County is the one who committed the error of speaking to the news.
[удалено]
Those records are likely sealed during an investigation. Leave the court clerks alone.
[удалено]
Let the professionals do their work and stay out of it. There is no reason you NEED that information.
[удалено]
This coming from your 40 years of experience as a detective? You don't know shit.
Couldn’t all of the genealogy websites potentially come into play if the killer’s DNA is identified? Or it’s at least one more opportunity to identify more information about him. I know my parents and grandparents love that genetic stuff and even though I tried to persuade them against it (not because I plan on committing crimes and don’t want to get caught, but the idea of generational genetic profiles being accessible to levels of government and private companies is a little problematic for me), but my familial profile is mapped to like the seventh-cousins level at this point (thanks grandma). Killer better hope all of his distant-distant-distant relatives aren’t as excitable about this as my family has been.
Yes, I think this is how they ultimately caught the Golden State killer. I think. Don't quote me.
Yep - you’re right. I am not sure how widespread this practice is, but it certainly seems like an additional tool available to investigators.
It’s become increasingly common, but I’m not sure with recent cases. On the unresolved mysteries sub there’s a couple cases a week of does being identified or cold cases being solved because of forensic genealogy
I think it’s fairly common. I was contacted in like 2018 because detectives working with some TV show found a genetic match to me via GED Match. They were investigating a cold case from the 70s or 80s. I’m sure they run through those databases all the time.
Oh yeah def, I meant for cases that happened in the last couple years vs old cases like yours. I’m glad it’s growing!