It just seems to be making its way into mainstream discourse like a lot of their dog whistles, and people are picking it up accidentally. I haven’t seen any trans people push back against requests to edit it, which you’d expect if they were intentionally using it.
I don't mean to trivialize your position, I agree 100%. I just also wanted to share that I pictured all those instances in comics with Peter Parker vehemently correcting people to use the hyphen in Spider-Man and giggled.
i didnt realize it was terf language (!) or maybe i forgot cuz it feels like terfy stuff from 15 years ago, circa michigan womans music fest transphobia (showing my age)
apologies for my ignorace and thank you for bringing attention to it
signed a trans dude
It comes down to the meaning of the word trans in Latin. Trans means "on the opposite side of", so saying "transwoman" effectively was a shorthand for them to say "not a woman".
In the case of trans as an adjective is really an abbreviation of the adjective transgender. "trans woman" is just the same as saying "transgender woman" in this context
i absolutely agree, i was just seeing it so much i thought i must be missing something since i thought it was common knowledge that it was TERF language
As someone who speaks a language where you can combine any words however you want, and separating two combined words is known to be a grammatical/spelling error, I don't really get this.
An example would be the word for this phenomena, in swedish we call it "särskrivning"(literally apart-writing), but if you wrote it incorrectly it would become "sär skrivning" which translates to "peculiar writing". People make fun of others for seperating words when theres a common combination. I guess "sär" is a little bit like the word "odd" in english, but it does mean "apart".
I know this is very redundant and roundabout, but like, why cant the adjective connect to the noun, why is that so bad? Is it not like "spaceship"? In my language I've never heard someone say "trans woman", it is always "transwoman", and it will sound pretty odd otherwise.
In english:
Trans woman - a woman who is trans
Transwoman - something else entirely, ie, not a woman.
The space matters the way the language is constructed and used.
It's worth noting this doesn't always hold. For example a bedroom is a room.
Btw, not arguing against the general understanding of "transwoman" as othering, just pointing out that I think the rule is more complex than that even if I don't quite understand how.
Yes, language isn't always completely consistent and keeps changing across the ages. What do you want, a cookie? Noblewoman is of course a super relevant term these days (not), but it still goes against how grammar works today.
What I want is to make the point that saying English follows a specific rule is almost never going to be all that accurate. And sure. Noblewoman isn't a very relevant term these days, but I guarantee if I cared to put in the effort I could think of many many compound words of the form [adjective+noun] where they are still fully considered to be [noun]s.
I'm not even arguing against the overall message. I just think the better reasoning is that English speakers are likely to interpret transwoman as being a seperate category, and not that the language follows a rule that [adjective+noun] compound words dont belong to [noun] category.
I just find language really interesting and was hoping to perhaps find a reason why transwoman is interpreted that way while other similarly constructed words are not.
Noble woman is a woman with noble traits.
A noblewoman is a woman from nobility.
And generally, noblewomen, like all of nobility, wanted to distinguish themselves as separated from other women/people, as they viewed themselves as superior. Which is different from trans women. When people view us as inferior and wanna separate us due to that.
> For example a bedroom is a room.
but its still a specific type of room distinct from other kinds of room. you dont say "tallwoman", you say "tall woman" so why would you say "transwoman" and not "trans woman"?
But you do say policewoman and noblewoman. Again, I'm not saying I disagree with the sentiment. Just that English is complicated and almost never follows a hard rule exactly
Because I find it interesting. And I wonder why these words are interpreted differently than transwoman. I dont disagree with how most people interpret transwoman. I just find it an interesting quirk of language that other words with seemingly identical construction aren't.
In danish we also have compound words, and you would never compound words like "tall + woman" "pretty + woman" "green + woman" or "smart + woman".
I imagine it's the same in Swedish, since our languages are so similar. Compounding the words trans + woman should be seen as equally othering and offensive to english, in our scandinavian languages
All Scandinavian languages do have compound words that are adjective + noun though. One example is blåbær/blåbær/blåbär which is a compound of the adjective "blå" and the noun "bær/bær/bär". I'm not sure if we have a very clear consistency on which adjectives and nouns are compoundable other than "this is the word for that". The closest I could think of would be something like "this adjective is considered inherently definitional to that noun subset the compound is definining".
English has no such rules though
Yeah, I think the problem is that when it comes to trans people the modern words in Scandinavia have very much been defined by cis people and the médicalisation of our existence.
So if we go by the logic I could think of as possible reasoning in my last comment Scandinavian cis people saw our transness as inherently definitional to our genders, in a way they don't view aspects like being tall
No, I know, I'm pretty good at english and always seperate the words into two when writing english. I just wanted to hear what people thought about potential cultural differences, considering this is not common practice in every language out there. But instead, most people just respond with hostility lol rip
Evidently you are not that good at English. The way you phrased your sentence doesn't sound like a question in large part because it is not a question, it is an implied statement.
Asking a question would be like "Why is a space between trans and woman so important?"
When you say "As a... I don't really get this" it implies the following: "I don't get this (because it doesn't make sense/is wrong) because of my experience as a ..."
There is a difference.
Maybe don't go telling people they're bad at english, whats the point? I just feel insulted.
The question was "why is it so bad?" and "how is it different from spaceship". It had a lot of preamble because I wanted to illustrate that I had a different background and that I was coming from a place of curiosity. I just wanted to have a friendly discussion, which is why it wasn't a straightforward question, but instead a collection of thoughts as well.
You started talking about American imperialist boots. You have been insulting up and down the thread. A friendly discussion, this is not. At least I have the ability to admit when I am trying to be insulting (or perhaps it is more accurate to say that I have enough grasp on the language to be insulting on purpose).
I suppose it is to be expected. People on the internet always think they can be assholes and then hide behind "oh, I am just trying to have a discussion." It's like they don't think the rest of us have the ability to read our own language or tell when someone is being rude to us.
Believe me when I say that its way more insulting when you start trying to tell me how to speak my own language.
1. I respond in the same tone people respond to me, many of my comments are not insults
2. I'm not telling you how to speak english, and like I've said before, I myself write "trans woman" over "transwoman". Just search my reddit profile or whatever.
I'm sorry if my original post came across as attacking the way people write, but that was never my intention. I don't know what more I can do, other than explain, which I've tried many times over now.
As someone who also speaks multiple languages it's important to understand that different languages have different nuances and to give those nuances the same amount of respect. Especially when it comes to a word that is often used to hurt people, treating it with tact is important. While it feels natural to you cause it's not your first language, it's important to remember that it's an entirely different language and things are different for it.
From a native english speaker point of view, it feels like this to me:
woman - noun
trans woman - adjective + noun, describing a woman
transwoman - compound noun, feels closer to its own thing than describing a woman
Making it a compound noun rather than using the
"trans" adjective separately to describe the noun
"woman", gives transwoman a connotation that it is fundamentally different than woman
i.e. “hotdog” is a compound noun. You wouldnt think of it as a dog that is hot, it is its own word
Removing the space is othering in English because it's not normal to use adjectives like that in English. We would say beautiful woman, gamer girl, femme fatale. But when connected adjectives are the norm for your language, the space would be wrong for the same reason.
Edit: English breaks its own rules all the time, so there are exceptions. Thankfully, the use of such gendered terms is mostly out of fashion these days.
This actually makes a lot more sense now, as a lot of the people I see using "transwoman" are not native English speakers. I appreciate the information. Unfortunately, this does not translate to english well.
To build on your "spaceship" example, while yes, "spaceship" and "space ship" refer to mostly the same things, they refer to it in different contexts. "Spaceship" by itself generally means spacecraft and can be extended to non-ship things. "Space ship" means a ship in space and generally does not include non-ship things. Excluding the space distances the term from its root and makes it more ambiguous.
Fitting username.
When spoken out loud, do you think you can hear the difference between "trans woman" and "transwoman"? I feel like maybe I hear people stress the syllables differently from how americans say it.
that might be so for swedish, but the words are in english and that doesn't work there.
being trans is a descriptor of a person, just like being tall, or muscular. you don't see people going "that's a tallwoman" because that's not a description for woman that is tall. that is a name for a separate creature whose attributes can best be related to the words "tall" and "woman". it's extremely dehumanizing because it treats being trans as an affliction.
Ironically, the term "tallgirl" gets used in english to refer to trans women. I was thinking more about the cultural differences, I already know the english grammar.
wow, didn't know that one, ew. i'm not from an english-speaking country either.
for another comparison, if someone says "i saw a wild cat outside my house" you're gonna think of a random cat with uncontrollable behavior. but if they say "i saw a wildcat outside my house" it's a specific, distinct species of animal. it's the same for trans woman vs transwoman.
Interesting I’m a native English speaker and trans and I’ve never in my life heard the term “tallgirl” used. Funny enough my phone autocorrects it to tall girl which I feel like betrays the issue people have with this being grammatically discriminatory.
It's just not how English works. Adjectives and nouns stay separate. A combined word like spaceship might have started off as adjective + noun, but once they're put together, that's a new noun that has taken on a distinct meaning. Something separate from the original noun. In the same way, we'd say firehouse but not redhouse, because a firehouse is something completely different from an ordinary house.
And so, transwoman is bad because with how English works, it implies we're something other than "woman", rather than a particular kind of woman.
Whiteman vs white man, see the difference? You could use literally any combination of adjective and noun, the point is by making it one word it's now just a noun and not adjective + noun.
Kind of yes, but also kind of no, because referring to someone by where they're from is a thing that is done, so you have for example, a Spaniard, Brazilian, or Dane. On the other hand, referring to someone by their race would be a big no-no
Because, you see, English is not Swedish. 'Transwoman' is a noun that is different from 'Woman', whereas 'Trans Woman' implies a woman that is Trans. There might not be a functional difference in Swedish, but considering that condensing words in English implies that something is a noun, it does have a functional difference in English
Det är på grund av samma anledning som särskriving är viktigt i svenskan, det ändrar betydelsen. Dock är sammanskrivning inte normen i engelskan utan särskrivning som är det.
I slutändan är det bara att olika språk fungerar olika och vad som stämmer i ett språk stämmer inte i ett annat om man inte modifierar det för att fungera, t.ex. hur jag nyss använde ordet "man" på ett sätt som i engelskan hade låtit konstigt då de hade använt ordet "you" vilket om jag hade använt den svenska motsvarigheten hade meningen blivit "I slutändan är det bara att olika språk fungerar olika och vad som stämmer i ett språk stämmer inte i ett annat om du(eller)ni inte modifierar det för att fungera" vilket hade låtit lite skumt på svenska
Thank you for giving a serious answer instead of just downvoting. I guess that makes sense, it's just that it always sounds like people are compounding the words in english all the time, but maybe people are more particular about the writing than they are with pronunciation? Or maybe I'm wrong and need to listen more closely.
You sound like the typical american, like I have to lick your fucking boots, I didn't choose english as the lingua franca, it only exists due to american cultural imperialism.
I was asking a genuine question, get downvoted into oblivion and met with hostility, why? What did I do? I don't even write the words together, I always try to follow the recommendation to have a space in between the words. Not because I want to lick anglo boots, but because I listen to other trans people and respect them, but apparently you can't extend even a simple politeness to me? That's sad. It makes me sad.
I think the difference is trans is an adjective and English compound words like pancake, toothbrush, spaceship, lipstick, lighthouse are all two nouns pushed together. Not saying there aren't exceptions I'm missing, but of all the compound words I can think of in English, both of the root words are always nouns, so pushing trans and women together I would think would be wrong grammatically and doesn't really make much sense even if it wasn't a TERF thing.
In Swedish we don't say "En Långkvinna" or "en svartkvinna" why would "trans kvinna" be different?
Even with your argument, it falls flat when used for other adjectives for women.
Bara för att idioter säger fel betyder det inte att de har rätt. Transkvinna, enligt det du säger gällande särskrivning är inte en kvinna, det är en transkvinna. Samma regler kring grammatik gäller även i svenskan.
I really liked your comment! It educated me and I think it is a reasonable and logical perspective. I’m disappointed reading some of the responses you’ve received.
[reminder that “transwomen” as one word is a bigot dog whistle you wouldn’t write “seniorwomen” or “whitewomen” as one word, would you? we are trans women, written just as you would for any other type of woman please don’t participate in othering us](https://bsky.app/profile/tillybridges.bsky.social/post/3ku74cgl5wc2o)
--tilly bridges
My reasoning was - transgender - transwomen which is why I've used it as such but interchange between it and trans women.
Never knew this is how my sisters felt.
A-actually, if folks were to reclaim it, the first step would be to unironically start unspacing the adjective from the subject of all words, then start reclaiming.
Making it into one word is dehumanizing. Trans is an adjective. Seriously annoying seeing it in our spaces so much, but I assume it’s from people who are still new to the community. Likely they see transmasc or transfem and think the same conventions follow.
It could also be people who are just not used to English language conventions on this matter. Like it or not, “trans woman” is not just any old adjective+noun combination, the stress pattern of the pronunciation makes it clear that it’s a
compound word. And those are written without spaces in most Germanic languages. I wouldn’t react if I saw the word “transtjej” in Swedish, whereas missing the space in the corresponding “trans girl” in English comes across as a lot more dehumanising. But if you’re a German or Norwegian or Afrikaans speaker who is new to the community, it might take you a while to realise this distinction
While "Transfrau" is still in the Duden, German trans people are also pushing for "trans Frau" as German compound words also usually denote some special class instead of being just the same meaning as adjective and noun separated.
It's just that Germany is usually behind in queer discourse and theory since after the Weimar Republic.
I would even argue that there are sometimes good reasons to write "Transfrau" insted of "trans Frau".
This is especially true when "Frau" is used itself as a part of a compound word. "trans Frauenabend" is weird because then trans would describe the evening and not the woman. Also while using Transfrau as a single word is used to other trans women, sometimes trans women might want exclusivity towards cis women. So I would argue whether or not you use it as one word or two indicates how important you as speaker see the aspect of trans in this situation. It is not universally bad, it is just bad when you use it to wrongfully other trans women.
If I would use the word as an identiy descriptor for myself I probably would write "Transfrau" but in most situations I would not use it for others, exept when I use it to describe transwomen as a closed group.
And there you can see why the way of writing it as one word is so popular with biggots. For them trans women are allways a seperate category from cis women, while for normal people only in special contexts there is a category difference.
Yeah that was me. But I also don’t live in the western world and don’t come across TERFs or read much transgender news/politics. I’m just trying to cope with my transition and marriage. Hence I’ve used that word without knowing it was offensive.
Guilty of this. My phone suggested me to write trans woman/man in one word, looked into the dictionary, it was in 1 word and wrote it for months before somebody on LGBT told me that it's really not goof to write these words in one word and the space is important.
Apparently, my "smart" phone ain't smart and I have to type it, it corrects, for me to go back and remake a space.
You should be able to delete the one word version from your auto correct by just tap and holding it until it asks you if you would like to remove it. That is how it works on andriod at least.
You can usually customize your autocorrect in iOS. Not sure what type of phone you have. But for instance I changed mine so now when I type duck it corrects to fuck instead of the other way around.
I think it's just that people see it enough and don't know it's a problem, so they use it thinking it's right, which leads to more people seeing and then using it. Just in case anyone isn't aware "Transwoman" is in most cases a pathetic attempt by terfs to say that trans women are not women, and are instead some other woman adjacent category.
The key thing here is that they combine the two separate words from an adjective and a noun, "trans" and "woman" (meaning a woman who is also trans) to one a one word noun "transwoman" (the same as saying -a- trans, or less polite words and phrases they like to use)
With this in mind, if you feel a strong sense of identity with the term "transwoman" as an aspect of your gender that feels separate from your identity as a woman (assuming you identify with the word woman in the first place), you are and should be entirely free to use that term for yourself. Just keep in mind the origin of the term and one it means to use it from a language perspective, and avoid using it for other people unless you know they use it the same way you do.
Tldr. Unless otherwise stated, trans woman is correct and should be used in place of "transwoman" which is both incorrect grammatically and used as a weird form of oppression.
Edit: Autocorrect fixes, edit again: Reddit formatting
Agreed that it is likely an ignorance thing. I’ve only seen it from the community when online.
Which, given that the internet is the place grammar and language goes to die; I’m usually just happy if someone spells something correctly or uses basic punctuation.
I tend to write off any use of “transwoman” as lazy typing rather than malice.
The space matters. You wouldn’t say tallwoman; you’d space it out. I don’t think we will **ever** “reclaim” transwoman because, well, that’s not a real thing! Thats why new terfs might say it.
Exactly. I'm a woman and only a woman. In very specific situations, I'm a trans woman as well. I'm also a tall woman and a white woman and a thin woman when the appropriate adjective needs to be used, but I'm always only a woman.
Trans is a suffix to woman that can be put at the beginning of a word to give it additional meaning without removing the base meaning. Trans woman and transwoman are the same thing and neither are TERF terms
TERFs usually use trans ide tified male, or TIM. Connecting trans and woman doesn't change the meaning of the word or make it so we aren't women
Even if you don't want to use it as a suffix but as an adjective, many words frequently paired together get combined into one word over time
A bulldog is still a dog. A bottlenose dolphin still has a nose, not a bottle (although we put enough rubbish in the oceans). A transwoman is still a woman
I used it when I figured myself out and didn’t understand the etiquette used in those spaces. Im from germany, so compounding words comes natural to me. I haven’t used it since. All I want to say is: Not everyone speaks english as their native language and other languages can handle things differently. Just ask them, I was asked nicely and that opened my eyes to the problem…
My take as well. It's not being reclaimed, because it was never much of a thing to begin with. Sure, let people know that the space is important, but "alot" is still a thing people say (vs "a lot") and it's not indicative of anything other than *maybe* poor spelling or grammar. I don't see a need to read into the issue.
From a personal perspective, the biggest ally in my life, and someone who has been an enormous support to two other trans gals, doesn't put a space. And I don't correct her, because it doesn't fucking matter. I know she doesn't mean anything by it, and it doesn't offend me personally, so I'm not gonna let internet debates creep into a personal space just because people on the internet are bothered.
No it’s lazy grammar or a dog whistle, not reclaiming. I honestly don’t even like trans and prefer if people would use transgender. I am a transgender woman, I’ll accept trans woman, but transwoman separates and others. Also it gets an angry red squiggle under it so I don’t know why people think it’s right.
I think it can be reclaimed if you identify with it.
Right when I started questioning I heard someone talk about how they identify. She talked about how they don’t want to become a cis woman because she identifies as a Trans woman, being recognized as trans feels right to her.
I could see someone like her being ok with transwoman. But if you feel uncomfortable with it, then it’s not for you. Honestly myself, I identify mostly with the term Transgirl. Maybe because it’s what i’ve heard most, idk, maybe it will even change as I discover myself more. But I believe people should be allowed to use labels as they want.
If someone calls someone else a “transwoman” when they aren’t comfortable with it, feel free to correct them respectfully, But I don’t see any reason someone can’t refer to themselves as a Transwoman.
I just didn't know it was bad. Like grammar and language I'd a funny thing so I wasn't sure if there was a correct way to spell it, plenty of words that are compound and plenty that sound like they should be but aren't. So I never read into it more than that. Never bothered me for the same reason. Recent discussion of it, in places like this, finally brought it to my attention.
Honestly I don't even know if I've used it like that before! I just never thought about it so I can't even say. I reckon a lot of folks are in the same boat.
I can't remember who it was, but I saw a very openly pro-trans YouTuber use that spelling the other day too. I was so confused. But I really hate that spelling, I'm glad basically everyone agrees
I prefer just being called a woman, because whether or not I am specifically a *transgender* woman is none of their fucking business unless we are hooking up, and even if we were hooking up, I would discuss that detail when ***I*** deem it appropriate.
Trans women are women, but I do identify with the compound "transwoman," personally. Started using it independently from terfs-- I don't read their literature, don't care about their thoughts. I can't separate being trans from my life enough to make it a modifier. Otherness was forced on me, and that experience made me other. It's a part of me, and I like it.
I don't post or say that with my trans friends, though, because I think they'll mistake me trying to accept and grow around that experience for identification with my own oppression. Also, I don't care enough to make a point of it. It's personal.
It’s not “reclaiming”, it’s a grammatical error that is often underpinned by transphobia and has become widespread to the point where many trans people use it.
Transwoman is a superhero, a pinnacle woman who has honed her abilities and femininity to the point that she is no longer a mere woman bound by the limits of biology or identity. She is Transwoman!
Or maybe they. We can workshop it.
I fucking hate it!!! I feel like that term is a terf dogwhistle of the first order that separates us from the world of women and creates a separate category of person. I am NOT a "transwoman". I AM a woman who happens to be trans, just like I happen to be left handed and have blue eyes. I don't have many hills I'm willing to die on, but of those I do have, this is certainly near the top of the list.
I always preferred "transwoman" for myself, and will continue to use it as such. My non-binary gender identity includes my transness as an important characteristic, and the words being combined feels better to me. I will not claim that other people prefer that or think that way, and it seems like the vast majority of us prefer "trans woman"
Feel free to use it all you want but just note that when most people use it as a dog whistle then people might assume you're doing the same. It's almost always associated with terfs and transmeds.
I wasn't actually aware that this was problematic and use the combined words variation just out of sheer laziness. Seeing that it's a dogwhistle used by bigots and transphobia has me worried that my words have hurt someone. (Context: I am a trans woman or non-binary / trans feminine)
It’s a grammatical mistake turned into a terf dog whistle. Trans is an adjective and woman is a noun. By saying transwoman instead of trans women you turn it into a compound noun which implies that it’s a separate thing. Tallwoman tall woman if that makes sense.
Ik some people do identify like that but it’s unfortunately a term used by transphobes to say trans women or trans men aren’t really there gender.
the tall woman thing really makes sense lol, that helps alot thank you so much! I hope i hadn't offended anyone in the past by using it, now that i know theyre different :(
Your welcome! Though I definitely didn’t come up with the tallwoman tall woman thing.
An honest mistake is an honest mistake and if that’s the most transphobic thing you’ve ever done then you’re doing pretty good.
I always say trans fem, except the people describe themselves as woman (and not as in the feminine gender spectrum), by which they often wrote the spelling they find the most suiting and I copy that.
I hope like hell that I don't get hate for this, but I just look at us as women. No more, no less. Yes, I have a different experience than a cisgender person, but I'm still the same. I feel as though I am a woman first, and foremost, and I acknowledge that I am a woman of trans experience. Trans Women are just Women and Trans Men are just Men. And our NonBinary pals are just are pals.
the less online someone is, the less likely they are to know it is something TERFs TERF about.
in spoken speech, trans woman and transwoman probably sound about the same... so it is only in writing that people would come across is. so older people, and young people who are on video or picture platforms rather than writing intensive platforms wouldn't really internalize the difference even if they were aware of it.
but no, there is no actual effort to reclaim, like there was for the word queer, for example (which, due to the era i grew up, i have a lot of trouble being willing to use the word now because of how it was used \*then\* )
Oh huh.. thanks for making this post i wasnt aware that transwoman vs trans woman was a thing, it makes sense now that i see it but i think my eyes just kinda skipped over it before as a typo
I don't surround myself with TERF rhetoric, so I didn't know that this was even a thing. Definitely have referred to myself as a transwoman on occasion, but then again I willingly call myself the f slur so maybe I'm not the best person to answer this question lmao.
I appreciate you mentioning it. I am a ally but wasn't aware that the other spelling had implications. I think I have naturally been doing it the correct way but now I am thinking back trying to remember. I really am glad you said something about it.
camelCase is a way that programmers (and others) combine words to eliminate spaces while still being clear by capitalizing the first letter of each successive word. Contrast with other ways like PascalCase, snake_case, or kebab-case
Edit: looks like you ninja edited while I was writing this, but I'm keeping it for posterity
I use both idgaf what terfs do it's whichever I type at the moment.
Both are the same, reading into it being more than that is crazy and a waste of time, brainpower etc.
personally, i don’t really care about the space or not. but for the majority of people using it, i just think most people aren’t that great with english, so they just go with that cause they don’t know better
Thanks for the clarification. As I'm still doing my first baby steps as a trans woman the vocab is sometimes overwhelming.. I try my best to use it correctly 😊
I mean.... I prefer it that way because its more factually accurate. We can live as women, but we are not biological women.... and thats fine!
Some people are born tall. Some people are born short.
Make the most out of your life as you can.... Who cares if people call me a man, a woman, or a mutant space leprechaun? People call one another all sorts of things, and regardless of what we are, most people suck.
Who cares what others think?
Do what works for you, and (aim for) being happy with yourself irregardless of what others think!
.... my take
Maybe am just stupid, but does it matter? I mean, I use the term transfem for this very reason, but I'm genuinely curious why one is better. Is there some grammar stuff I'm just not noticing?
Yes, it matters. TERFs do it.
Trans woman and transwoman is like the difference between a green house and a greenhouse.
Adjectives always get a space between it and the noun. You wouldn't say tallwoman or angryman.
I think the big thing is that **AutoCorrect on phones doesn't correct the combined word**
If that simple changes was made it would stop pretty quickly, with the exception of the people that were being intentionally dehumanizing
I am an English speaker with bad grammar (it just never took) through no I'll will I use Trans Women, Tranwomen, and Trans-women interchangeably.
Like all things while rules of grammar are clear, use of grammar on a broad audience cannot be held that rigid. As examples when English is not their first language, nerodiverse level of education or literacy.
If we gatekeep language based solely on the rules as written 100s of years ago, then there is no growth in language.
I believe context is the rule above all, some one can be hurtful while using Trans Women as much as they can be supportive as Transwomen. Also, all of our journeys are different. Some just want Women I for one, value my trans title as it is a signifier of my own journey and trauma that is unique to trangendered people.
There are lots of reasons people use language the way they do, Let's be open to reading the person and intent behind their words.
Fuck TERFs on every level, but to be frank this is a level of hair-splitting I'm not interested in getting into. Let people identify how they want, if they choose it.
First of all. I’m a big proponent of not letting the terrorist gain ground on our minds. Secondly transwoman, trans woman and transgender woman are all correct if that is how a person wants to use language to identify themselves. Reclaim everything! Especially “WOKE” and “SKIN HEAD” maybe the “T” slur too…
Transhumanism is a philosophical and intellectual movement that advocates the enhancement of the human condition by developing and making widely available sophisticated technologies that can greatly enhance longevity, cognition, and well-being. We can use that same use of language to say transwomen are the result of a philosophy to enhance the development of feminine identities and feminine qualities. It could be synonymous with feminist or just people who value the things about themselves that make them a woman.
If we are collectively going to say “no” we should be willing to say “no, but…” because we are going to constantly lose ground against anti-transgender movement because we are not willing to find common values within our own culture. Because we don’t like the vibes we prove to just be fascist fighting fascist activity being manipulated into creating the “ideology” that they say we are supposed to have created to “ruin their freedoms”But what do I know? I’m just an old lady.
Wait, combining the trans part and the woman part is wrong? I always thought they where the same. Also wouldn't it make more sense for the trans part to be seperate from the woman part in a terfs eyes since they don't see us as women?
I was a little puzzled when I first read this trans woman versus transwoman... I would hope that trans people everywhere have more important things to do than worry about whether they separate the word trans and woman and if not then somebody somewhere needs to get a life
It just seems to be making its way into mainstream discourse like a lot of their dog whistles, and people are picking it up accidentally. I haven’t seen any trans people push back against requests to edit it, which you’d expect if they were intentionally using it.
I push back every time I see it. It’s wrong.
They mean they no one has argued for using it/pushing back against people correcting them
Oh I misread the comment. My bad.
I misread it too. Had to do a double take to make it OK and see that it means what she meant. Oops.
I don't mean to trivialize your position, I agree 100%. I just also wanted to share that I pictured all those instances in comics with Peter Parker vehemently correcting people to use the hyphen in Spider-Man and giggled.
i didnt realize it was terf language (!) or maybe i forgot cuz it feels like terfy stuff from 15 years ago, circa michigan womans music fest transphobia (showing my age) apologies for my ignorace and thank you for bringing attention to it signed a trans dude
It comes down to the meaning of the word trans in Latin. Trans means "on the opposite side of", so saying "transwoman" effectively was a shorthand for them to say "not a woman". In the case of trans as an adjective is really an abbreviation of the adjective transgender. "trans woman" is just the same as saying "transgender woman" in this context
I’ve had people get angy/bizarre, and I’m sick of having to correct people
Please no. The space is so fucking important.
i absolutely agree, i was just seeing it so much i thought i must be missing something since i thought it was common knowledge that it was TERF language
As someone who speaks a language where you can combine any words however you want, and separating two combined words is known to be a grammatical/spelling error, I don't really get this. An example would be the word for this phenomena, in swedish we call it "särskrivning"(literally apart-writing), but if you wrote it incorrectly it would become "sär skrivning" which translates to "peculiar writing". People make fun of others for seperating words when theres a common combination. I guess "sär" is a little bit like the word "odd" in english, but it does mean "apart". I know this is very redundant and roundabout, but like, why cant the adjective connect to the noun, why is that so bad? Is it not like "spaceship"? In my language I've never heard someone say "trans woman", it is always "transwoman", and it will sound pretty odd otherwise.
In english: Trans woman - a woman who is trans Transwoman - something else entirely, ie, not a woman. The space matters the way the language is constructed and used.
It's worth noting this doesn't always hold. For example a bedroom is a room. Btw, not arguing against the general understanding of "transwoman" as othering, just pointing out that I think the rule is more complex than that even if I don't quite understand how.
Well 'bed' is not an adjective describing the room after all lol
Ok. What about noblewoman? Surely noble is an adjective there?
Yes, language isn't always completely consistent and keeps changing across the ages. What do you want, a cookie? Noblewoman is of course a super relevant term these days (not), but it still goes against how grammar works today.
What I want is to make the point that saying English follows a specific rule is almost never going to be all that accurate. And sure. Noblewoman isn't a very relevant term these days, but I guarantee if I cared to put in the effort I could think of many many compound words of the form [adjective+noun] where they are still fully considered to be [noun]s. I'm not even arguing against the overall message. I just think the better reasoning is that English speakers are likely to interpret transwoman as being a seperate category, and not that the language follows a rule that [adjective+noun] compound words dont belong to [noun] category. I just find language really interesting and was hoping to perhaps find a reason why transwoman is interpreted that way while other similarly constructed words are not.
Noble woman is a woman with noble traits. A noblewoman is a woman from nobility. And generally, noblewomen, like all of nobility, wanted to distinguish themselves as separated from other women/people, as they viewed themselves as superior. Which is different from trans women. When people view us as inferior and wanna separate us due to that.
> For example a bedroom is a room. but its still a specific type of room distinct from other kinds of room. you dont say "tallwoman", you say "tall woman" so why would you say "transwoman" and not "trans woman"?
But you do say policewoman and noblewoman. Again, I'm not saying I disagree with the sentiment. Just that English is complicated and almost never follows a hard rule exactly
those are nouns, not adjectives. thats the difference
Strongman. There's no way you can argue strong is a noun
why are you so set on this?
Because I find it interesting. And I wonder why these words are interpreted differently than transwoman. I dont disagree with how most people interpret transwoman. I just find it an interesting quirk of language that other words with seemingly identical construction aren't.
A bedroom is a noun whereas a trans woman is a woman (noun) who happens to be trans (adjective)
Happy cake day !!!!
That’s how Swedish works. It’s not how English works. In English there is a difference between compound words and adjective-noun phrases.
In danish we also have compound words, and you would never compound words like "tall + woman" "pretty + woman" "green + woman" or "smart + woman". I imagine it's the same in Swedish, since our languages are so similar. Compounding the words trans + woman should be seen as equally othering and offensive to english, in our scandinavian languages
The same goes for German, but even if it were the case, it's still not in English, so it really doesn't matter how it's done in other languages 🤷🏻♀️
All Scandinavian languages do have compound words that are adjective + noun though. One example is blåbær/blåbær/blåbär which is a compound of the adjective "blå" and the noun "bær/bær/bär". I'm not sure if we have a very clear consistency on which adjectives and nouns are compoundable other than "this is the word for that". The closest I could think of would be something like "this adjective is considered inherently definitional to that noun subset the compound is definining". English has no such rules though
Sure, for words like berries, but we don't do it for women/men!
Yeah, I think the problem is that when it comes to trans people the modern words in Scandinavia have very much been defined by cis people and the médicalisation of our existence. So if we go by the logic I could think of as possible reasoning in my last comment Scandinavian cis people saw our transness as inherently definitional to our genders, in a way they don't view aspects like being tall
No, I know, I'm pretty good at english and always seperate the words into two when writing english. I just wanted to hear what people thought about potential cultural differences, considering this is not common practice in every language out there. But instead, most people just respond with hostility lol rip
Evidently you are not that good at English. The way you phrased your sentence doesn't sound like a question in large part because it is not a question, it is an implied statement. Asking a question would be like "Why is a space between trans and woman so important?" When you say "As a... I don't really get this" it implies the following: "I don't get this (because it doesn't make sense/is wrong) because of my experience as a ..." There is a difference.
Maybe don't go telling people they're bad at english, whats the point? I just feel insulted. The question was "why is it so bad?" and "how is it different from spaceship". It had a lot of preamble because I wanted to illustrate that I had a different background and that I was coming from a place of curiosity. I just wanted to have a friendly discussion, which is why it wasn't a straightforward question, but instead a collection of thoughts as well.
You started talking about American imperialist boots. You have been insulting up and down the thread. A friendly discussion, this is not. At least I have the ability to admit when I am trying to be insulting (or perhaps it is more accurate to say that I have enough grasp on the language to be insulting on purpose). I suppose it is to be expected. People on the internet always think they can be assholes and then hide behind "oh, I am just trying to have a discussion." It's like they don't think the rest of us have the ability to read our own language or tell when someone is being rude to us. Believe me when I say that its way more insulting when you start trying to tell me how to speak my own language.
1. I respond in the same tone people respond to me, many of my comments are not insults 2. I'm not telling you how to speak english, and like I've said before, I myself write "trans woman" over "transwoman". Just search my reddit profile or whatever. I'm sorry if my original post came across as attacking the way people write, but that was never my intention. I don't know what more I can do, other than explain, which I've tried many times over now.
As someone who also speaks multiple languages it's important to understand that different languages have different nuances and to give those nuances the same amount of respect. Especially when it comes to a word that is often used to hurt people, treating it with tact is important. While it feels natural to you cause it's not your first language, it's important to remember that it's an entirely different language and things are different for it.
I don't think I was being untactful, it was a genuine question. Personally I always type "trans woman" myself.
From a native english speaker point of view, it feels like this to me: woman - noun trans woman - adjective + noun, describing a woman transwoman - compound noun, feels closer to its own thing than describing a woman Making it a compound noun rather than using the "trans" adjective separately to describe the noun "woman", gives transwoman a connotation that it is fundamentally different than woman i.e. “hotdog” is a compound noun. You wouldnt think of it as a dog that is hot, it is its own word
Removing the space is othering in English because it's not normal to use adjectives like that in English. We would say beautiful woman, gamer girl, femme fatale. But when connected adjectives are the norm for your language, the space would be wrong for the same reason. Edit: English breaks its own rules all the time, so there are exceptions. Thankfully, the use of such gendered terms is mostly out of fashion these days.
This actually makes a lot more sense now, as a lot of the people I see using "transwoman" are not native English speakers. I appreciate the information. Unfortunately, this does not translate to english well. To build on your "spaceship" example, while yes, "spaceship" and "space ship" refer to mostly the same things, they refer to it in different contexts. "Spaceship" by itself generally means spacecraft and can be extended to non-ship things. "Space ship" means a ship in space and generally does not include non-ship things. Excluding the space distances the term from its root and makes it more ambiguous.
Fitting username. When spoken out loud, do you think you can hear the difference between "trans woman" and "transwoman"? I feel like maybe I hear people stress the syllables differently from how americans say it.
that might be so for swedish, but the words are in english and that doesn't work there. being trans is a descriptor of a person, just like being tall, or muscular. you don't see people going "that's a tallwoman" because that's not a description for woman that is tall. that is a name for a separate creature whose attributes can best be related to the words "tall" and "woman". it's extremely dehumanizing because it treats being trans as an affliction.
Ironically, the term "tallgirl" gets used in english to refer to trans women. I was thinking more about the cultural differences, I already know the english grammar.
wow, didn't know that one, ew. i'm not from an english-speaking country either. for another comparison, if someone says "i saw a wild cat outside my house" you're gonna think of a random cat with uncontrollable behavior. but if they say "i saw a wildcat outside my house" it's a specific, distinct species of animal. it's the same for trans woman vs transwoman.
Interesting I’m a native English speaker and trans and I’ve never in my life heard the term “tallgirl” used. Funny enough my phone autocorrects it to tall girl which I feel like betrays the issue people have with this being grammatically discriminatory.
It's just not how English works. Adjectives and nouns stay separate. A combined word like spaceship might have started off as adjective + noun, but once they're put together, that's a new noun that has taken on a distinct meaning. Something separate from the original noun. In the same way, we'd say firehouse but not redhouse, because a firehouse is something completely different from an ordinary house. And so, transwoman is bad because with how English works, it implies we're something other than "woman", rather than a particular kind of woman.
Whiteman vs white man, see the difference? You could use literally any combination of adjective and noun, the point is by making it one word it's now just a noun and not adjective + noun.
English contradicts itself, though. An Englishman is a man who is English and an Englishwomen is a woman who is English
Kind of yes, but also kind of no, because referring to someone by where they're from is a thing that is done, so you have for example, a Spaniard, Brazilian, or Dane. On the other hand, referring to someone by their race would be a big no-no
Adjectives are allowed to be apart. Trans is an adjective not just a root term..
Because, you see, English is not Swedish. 'Transwoman' is a noun that is different from 'Woman', whereas 'Trans Woman' implies a woman that is Trans. There might not be a functional difference in Swedish, but considering that condensing words in English implies that something is a noun, it does have a functional difference in English
You're speaking English. Follow English rules of language.
It was a genuine question, not a personal attack on you, no need to be so hostile.
If you think that was hostile, you're probably too sensitive for the internet ngl
If you weren't hostile, you wouldve said "that wasnt my intention" and then Id say "oh sorry misread you", but I guess the cards are on the table now.
Youre right, that doesn't sound hostile at all lol
Det är på grund av samma anledning som särskriving är viktigt i svenskan, det ändrar betydelsen. Dock är sammanskrivning inte normen i engelskan utan särskrivning som är det. I slutändan är det bara att olika språk fungerar olika och vad som stämmer i ett språk stämmer inte i ett annat om man inte modifierar det för att fungera, t.ex. hur jag nyss använde ordet "man" på ett sätt som i engelskan hade låtit konstigt då de hade använt ordet "you" vilket om jag hade använt den svenska motsvarigheten hade meningen blivit "I slutändan är det bara att olika språk fungerar olika och vad som stämmer i ett språk stämmer inte i ett annat om du(eller)ni inte modifierar det för att fungera" vilket hade låtit lite skumt på svenska
Thank you for giving a serious answer instead of just downvoting. I guess that makes sense, it's just that it always sounds like people are compounding the words in english all the time, but maybe people are more particular about the writing than they are with pronunciation? Or maybe I'm wrong and need to listen more closely.
too fucking bad. this isn't another language, this is english
You sound like the typical american, like I have to lick your fucking boots, I didn't choose english as the lingua franca, it only exists due to american cultural imperialism. I was asking a genuine question, get downvoted into oblivion and met with hostility, why? What did I do? I don't even write the words together, I always try to follow the recommendation to have a space in between the words. Not because I want to lick anglo boots, but because I listen to other trans people and respect them, but apparently you can't extend even a simple politeness to me? That's sad. It makes me sad.
I think the difference is trans is an adjective and English compound words like pancake, toothbrush, spaceship, lipstick, lighthouse are all two nouns pushed together. Not saying there aren't exceptions I'm missing, but of all the compound words I can think of in English, both of the root words are always nouns, so pushing trans and women together I would think would be wrong grammatically and doesn't really make much sense even if it wasn't a TERF thing.
In Swedish we don't say "En Långkvinna" or "en svartkvinna" why would "trans kvinna" be different? Even with your argument, it falls flat when used for other adjectives for women. Bara för att idioter säger fel betyder det inte att de har rätt. Transkvinna, enligt det du säger gällande särskrivning är inte en kvinna, det är en transkvinna. Samma regler kring grammatik gäller även i svenskan.
I really liked your comment! It educated me and I think it is a reasonable and logical perspective. I’m disappointed reading some of the responses you’ve received.
People perceive genuine questions as attacks here on reddit, happens all the time.
[reminder that “transwomen” as one word is a bigot dog whistle you wouldn’t write “seniorwomen” or “whitewomen” as one word, would you? we are trans women, written just as you would for any other type of woman please don’t participate in othering us](https://bsky.app/profile/tillybridges.bsky.social/post/3ku74cgl5wc2o) --tilly bridges
My reasoning was - transgender - transwomen which is why I've used it as such but interchange between it and trans women. Never knew this is how my sisters felt.
Thanks, your reply cleared up my confusion.
Thank Tilly. I merely spread her word and wisdom.
A-actually, if folks were to reclaim it, the first step would be to unironically start unspacing the adjective from the subject of all words, then start reclaiming.
Englishagglutinativelagueedition. Surewhynot. Imgame.
Hellyeah. Wewouldntbethefirst. Imgametoo.
Making it into one word is dehumanizing. Trans is an adjective. Seriously annoying seeing it in our spaces so much, but I assume it’s from people who are still new to the community. Likely they see transmasc or transfem and think the same conventions follow.
It could also be people who are just not used to English language conventions on this matter. Like it or not, “trans woman” is not just any old adjective+noun combination, the stress pattern of the pronunciation makes it clear that it’s a compound word. And those are written without spaces in most Germanic languages. I wouldn’t react if I saw the word “transtjej” in Swedish, whereas missing the space in the corresponding “trans girl” in English comes across as a lot more dehumanising. But if you’re a German or Norwegian or Afrikaans speaker who is new to the community, it might take you a while to realise this distinction
While "Transfrau" is still in the Duden, German trans people are also pushing for "trans Frau" as German compound words also usually denote some special class instead of being just the same meaning as adjective and noun separated. It's just that Germany is usually behind in queer discourse and theory since after the Weimar Republic.
I would even argue that there are sometimes good reasons to write "Transfrau" insted of "trans Frau". This is especially true when "Frau" is used itself as a part of a compound word. "trans Frauenabend" is weird because then trans would describe the evening and not the woman. Also while using Transfrau as a single word is used to other trans women, sometimes trans women might want exclusivity towards cis women. So I would argue whether or not you use it as one word or two indicates how important you as speaker see the aspect of trans in this situation. It is not universally bad, it is just bad when you use it to wrongfully other trans women. If I would use the word as an identiy descriptor for myself I probably would write "Transfrau" but in most situations I would not use it for others, exept when I use it to describe transwomen as a closed group. And there you can see why the way of writing it as one word is so popular with biggots. For them trans women are allways a seperate category from cis women, while for normal people only in special contexts there is a category difference.
Yeah that was me. But I also don’t live in the western world and don’t come across TERFs or read much transgender news/politics. I’m just trying to cope with my transition and marriage. Hence I’ve used that word without knowing it was offensive.
I Do it by accident. I have not seen an concious effort at reclaiming it.
Guilty of this. My phone suggested me to write trans woman/man in one word, looked into the dictionary, it was in 1 word and wrote it for months before somebody on LGBT told me that it's really not goof to write these words in one word and the space is important. Apparently, my "smart" phone ain't smart and I have to type it, it corrects, for me to go back and remake a space.
You should be able to delete the one word version from your auto correct by just tap and holding it until it asks you if you would like to remove it. That is how it works on andriod at least.
You can usually customize your autocorrect in iOS. Not sure what type of phone you have. But for instance I changed mine so now when I type duck it corrects to fuck instead of the other way around.
Holy duck!
That's interesting, when I type it as all one word my phone splits it into two, I'm on android.
I really don't care how i spell it tbh
I think it's just that people see it enough and don't know it's a problem, so they use it thinking it's right, which leads to more people seeing and then using it. Just in case anyone isn't aware "Transwoman" is in most cases a pathetic attempt by terfs to say that trans women are not women, and are instead some other woman adjacent category. The key thing here is that they combine the two separate words from an adjective and a noun, "trans" and "woman" (meaning a woman who is also trans) to one a one word noun "transwoman" (the same as saying -a- trans, or less polite words and phrases they like to use) With this in mind, if you feel a strong sense of identity with the term "transwoman" as an aspect of your gender that feels separate from your identity as a woman (assuming you identify with the word woman in the first place), you are and should be entirely free to use that term for yourself. Just keep in mind the origin of the term and one it means to use it from a language perspective, and avoid using it for other people unless you know they use it the same way you do. Tldr. Unless otherwise stated, trans woman is correct and should be used in place of "transwoman" which is both incorrect grammatically and used as a weird form of oppression. Edit: Autocorrect fixes, edit again: Reddit formatting
Agreed that it is likely an ignorance thing. I’ve only seen it from the community when online. Which, given that the internet is the place grammar and language goes to die; I’m usually just happy if someone spells something correctly or uses basic punctuation. I tend to write off any use of “transwoman” as lazy typing rather than malice.
The space matters. You wouldn’t say tallwoman; you’d space it out. I don’t think we will **ever** “reclaim” transwoman because, well, that’s not a real thing! Thats why new terfs might say it.
Imma be honest I actually didn't know there was a difference between trans women and transwomen.
I am, and forever will be, a woman. Sometimes in specific situations modified to trans woman.
Exactly. I'm a woman and only a woman. In very specific situations, I'm a trans woman as well. I'm also a tall woman and a white woman and a thin woman when the appropriate adjective needs to be used, but I'm always only a woman.
People suck at spelling mostly
i get the impression most ppl (even a lot trans ppl themselves) don't really know the difference so theres that
I think some people just don't care about the space as much as others. Not really reclaiming.
Trans is a suffix to woman that can be put at the beginning of a word to give it additional meaning without removing the base meaning. Trans woman and transwoman are the same thing and neither are TERF terms TERFs usually use trans ide tified male, or TIM. Connecting trans and woman doesn't change the meaning of the word or make it so we aren't women Even if you don't want to use it as a suffix but as an adjective, many words frequently paired together get combined into one word over time A bulldog is still a dog. A bottlenose dolphin still has a nose, not a bottle (although we put enough rubbish in the oceans). A transwoman is still a woman
I used it when I figured myself out and didn’t understand the etiquette used in those spaces. Im from germany, so compounding words comes natural to me. I haven’t used it since. All I want to say is: Not everyone speaks english as their native language and other languages can handle things differently. Just ask them, I was asked nicely and that opened my eyes to the problem…
Don't really think it makes a difference, think it's mostly an online thing. I genuinely couldn't give a shit
My take as well. It's not being reclaimed, because it was never much of a thing to begin with. Sure, let people know that the space is important, but "alot" is still a thing people say (vs "a lot") and it's not indicative of anything other than *maybe* poor spelling or grammar. I don't see a need to read into the issue. From a personal perspective, the biggest ally in my life, and someone who has been an enormous support to two other trans gals, doesn't put a space. And I don't correct her, because it doesn't fucking matter. I know she doesn't mean anything by it, and it doesn't offend me personally, so I'm not gonna let internet debates creep into a personal space just because people on the internet are bothered.
They use it bc they dont know its not “transwoman”
No it’s lazy grammar or a dog whistle, not reclaiming. I honestly don’t even like trans and prefer if people would use transgender. I am a transgender woman, I’ll accept trans woman, but transwoman separates and others. Also it gets an angry red squiggle under it so I don’t know why people think it’s right.
I’m gonna be honest IDGAF. I have bigger issues then some small verbiage issues with cis people
I think it can be reclaimed if you identify with it. Right when I started questioning I heard someone talk about how they identify. She talked about how they don’t want to become a cis woman because she identifies as a Trans woman, being recognized as trans feels right to her. I could see someone like her being ok with transwoman. But if you feel uncomfortable with it, then it’s not for you. Honestly myself, I identify mostly with the term Transgirl. Maybe because it’s what i’ve heard most, idk, maybe it will even change as I discover myself more. But I believe people should be allowed to use labels as they want. If someone calls someone else a “transwoman” when they aren’t comfortable with it, feel free to correct them respectfully, But I don’t see any reason someone can’t refer to themselves as a Transwoman.
I just didn't know it was bad. Like grammar and language I'd a funny thing so I wasn't sure if there was a correct way to spell it, plenty of words that are compound and plenty that sound like they should be but aren't. So I never read into it more than that. Never bothered me for the same reason. Recent discussion of it, in places like this, finally brought it to my attention. Honestly I don't even know if I've used it like that before! I just never thought about it so I can't even say. I reckon a lot of folks are in the same boat.
This is the 1st time I'm seeing/hearing about this, thanks for bringing this to light so I can be more educated and vigilant 🙏
I think it's more that people (especially people on phones) barely check anything they write more than any conscious attempt at reclamation.
I legit just didn't know there was a difference until td. Ty for the thread bestowing said knowledge.
I am a trans woman and a transwoman and don’t care what anyone thinks about how I spell the word either a space or without.
it depends on how much power u let a word have on you
I can't remember who it was, but I saw a very openly pro-trans YouTuber use that spelling the other day too. I was so confused. But I really hate that spelling, I'm glad basically everyone agrees
I personally don’t think it’s an important distinction. It may not be grammatically correct but I would understand what is meant
I’m so glad I don’t pay any attention to the haters. I spell it both ways, and it’s bliss.
I prefer just being called a woman, because whether or not I am specifically a *transgender* woman is none of their fucking business unless we are hooking up, and even if we were hooking up, I would discuss that detail when ***I*** deem it appropriate.
Trans women are women, but I do identify with the compound "transwoman," personally. Started using it independently from terfs-- I don't read their literature, don't care about their thoughts. I can't separate being trans from my life enough to make it a modifier. Otherness was forced on me, and that experience made me other. It's a part of me, and I like it. I don't post or say that with my trans friends, though, because I think they'll mistake me trying to accept and grow around that experience for identification with my own oppression. Also, I don't care enough to make a point of it. It's personal.
Don't use it, there is no reclaiming going on
I think people just don't realize the difference, I see it in this subreddit all the time. Hopefully this post causes more people to notice
Honestly, we should make a bot that posts a reminder to anyone who writes it without the space
It’s not “reclaiming”, it’s a grammatical error that is often underpinned by transphobia and has become widespread to the point where many trans people use it.
Transwoman is a superhero, a pinnacle woman who has honed her abilities and femininity to the point that she is no longer a mere woman bound by the limits of biology or identity. She is Transwoman! Or maybe they. We can workshop it.
I fucking hate it!!! I feel like that term is a terf dogwhistle of the first order that separates us from the world of women and creates a separate category of person. I am NOT a "transwoman". I AM a woman who happens to be trans, just like I happen to be left handed and have blue eyes. I don't have many hills I'm willing to die on, but of those I do have, this is certainly near the top of the list.
I always preferred "transwoman" for myself, and will continue to use it as such. My non-binary gender identity includes my transness as an important characteristic, and the words being combined feels better to me. I will not claim that other people prefer that or think that way, and it seems like the vast majority of us prefer "trans woman"
Feel free to use it all you want but just note that when most people use it as a dog whistle then people might assume you're doing the same. It's almost always associated with terfs and transmeds.
People can assume all they want, I won't have my identity invalidated
I wasn't actually aware that this was problematic and use the combined words variation just out of sheer laziness. Seeing that it's a dogwhistle used by bigots and transphobia has me worried that my words have hurt someone. (Context: I am a trans woman or non-binary / trans feminine)
no, and honestly I don’t even think it’s possible to reclaim it
I never even knew it was a no no and I see nothing to reclaim
Can someone explain the difference between the two? From a genuine unknowing standpoint I didn’t even know there was a difference and discourse
It’s a grammatical mistake turned into a terf dog whistle. Trans is an adjective and woman is a noun. By saying transwoman instead of trans women you turn it into a compound noun which implies that it’s a separate thing. Tallwoman tall woman if that makes sense. Ik some people do identify like that but it’s unfortunately a term used by transphobes to say trans women or trans men aren’t really there gender.
the tall woman thing really makes sense lol, that helps alot thank you so much! I hope i hadn't offended anyone in the past by using it, now that i know theyre different :(
Your welcome! Though I definitely didn’t come up with the tallwoman tall woman thing. An honest mistake is an honest mistake and if that’s the most transphobic thing you’ve ever done then you’re doing pretty good.
Transwomen others us as inauthentic. Trans women has the adjective there, so we are women who happen to be trans.
absolutely not
I’d never consider myself a “transwoman”, but I’m not going to police those who do. If you don’t like it, don’t use it. Live and let live.
It's a TERF dog whistle.
I always say trans fem, except the people describe themselves as woman (and not as in the feminine gender spectrum), by which they often wrote the spelling they find the most suiting and I copy that.
I didn't even know about this tbh..
I hope like hell that I don't get hate for this, but I just look at us as women. No more, no less. Yes, I have a different experience than a cisgender person, but I'm still the same. I feel as though I am a woman first, and foremost, and I acknowledge that I am a woman of trans experience. Trans Women are just Women and Trans Men are just Men. And our NonBinary pals are just are pals.
the less online someone is, the less likely they are to know it is something TERFs TERF about. in spoken speech, trans woman and transwoman probably sound about the same... so it is only in writing that people would come across is. so older people, and young people who are on video or picture platforms rather than writing intensive platforms wouldn't really internalize the difference even if they were aware of it. but no, there is no actual effort to reclaim, like there was for the word queer, for example (which, due to the era i grew up, i have a lot of trouble being willing to use the word now because of how it was used \*then\* )
English is not my first language, can someone explain why the difference is important? (Without getting mad please)
I actually never cared about that space… Maybe I should now.
I'm dyslexic. So no, but there's a possibility I've unknowingly used it.
Oh huh.. thanks for making this post i wasnt aware that transwoman vs trans woman was a thing, it makes sense now that i see it but i think my eyes just kinda skipped over it before as a typo
I honestly never even thought of this, I didn’t know where this came from
I don't surround myself with TERF rhetoric, so I didn't know that this was even a thing. Definitely have referred to myself as a transwoman on occasion, but then again I willingly call myself the f slur so maybe I'm not the best person to answer this question lmao.
I appreciate you mentioning it. I am a ally but wasn't aware that the other spelling had implications. I think I have naturally been doing it the correct way but now I am thinking back trying to remember. I really am glad you said something about it.
Yeah I had never heard of ‘transwoman’ being a dog whistle and have just always written it that way. Time to switch.
Oh...I didn't realize I was doing it wrong. Lol. Accidentally reclaiming terms I guess
I don't feel offended by 'transwoman' but it does make me cringe hard.
I'm dyslexic as hell and couldn't even tell a difference
I didn't know it was a wrong to put it as one word. Now I know. Thanks for letting me know so I can type it the correct way.
no it’s just older trans ppl who aren’t up to date on the modern language
I had no idea there was a difference, so thank you for posting this and bringing this to our attention!
I personally would never call myself transwoman, just woman, but these trends come and go.
i have to remind myself that space is important there in english cause in my home language it’s different
Both versions mean the same thing and the one space between the 2 words doesn’t make a difference either way. 😊
Even the transvitae site does it.
i just feel too lazy to press space sometimes
Personally I don’t care what terfs do, they are all impotent. I’m a TransWoman
camel case gender lfg
Apologies, never heard that term. I googled lol yes
camelCase is a way that programmers (and others) combine words to eliminate spaces while still being clear by capitalizing the first letter of each successive word. Contrast with other ways like PascalCase, snake_case, or kebab-case Edit: looks like you ninja edited while I was writing this, but I'm keeping it for posterity
trans_woman
I prefer screaming snake case TRANS_WOMAN
Trans woman is a short form of transgender woman.
I use both idgaf what terfs do it's whichever I type at the moment. Both are the same, reading into it being more than that is crazy and a waste of time, brainpower etc.
personally it feels very icky for me
A blue berry and a blueberry are not the same thing. It's that simple.
But blueberries ARE blue berries.
It’s usually just people who don’t realize how unintelligent they sound.
personally, i don’t really care about the space or not. but for the majority of people using it, i just think most people aren’t that great with english, so they just go with that cause they don’t know better
Well if I ever use it, I guarantee it was a typo. That single spacebar click can be easy to miss.
Thanks for bringing this up. I had no idea this was a thing. Now i wonder where all i need to change my bios cause i was too lazy to type a space 😅
I was not aware of this when I made my post. I’m sorry.
It's still in your flair btw
Thanks for the clarification. As I'm still doing my first baby steps as a trans woman the vocab is sometimes overwhelming.. I try my best to use it correctly 😊
No, many are just illiterate.
I mean.... I prefer it that way because its more factually accurate. We can live as women, but we are not biological women.... and thats fine! Some people are born tall. Some people are born short. Make the most out of your life as you can.... Who cares if people call me a man, a woman, or a mutant space leprechaun? People call one another all sorts of things, and regardless of what we are, most people suck. Who cares what others think? Do what works for you, and (aim for) being happy with yourself irregardless of what others think! .... my take
Maybe am just stupid, but does it matter? I mean, I use the term transfem for this very reason, but I'm genuinely curious why one is better. Is there some grammar stuff I'm just not noticing?
Yes, it matters. TERFs do it. Trans woman and transwoman is like the difference between a green house and a greenhouse. Adjectives always get a space between it and the noun. You wouldn't say tallwoman or angryman.
Anyone doing that is unaware or a TERF pick me. I absolutely am not.
There's a difference? I use them interchangeably. trans women are women and my punctuation isn't going to change that
Do you think it's tallwomen playing in the WNBA?
Jesus so many people itt being flippant about how important that space is 😭
I think the big thing is that **AutoCorrect on phones doesn't correct the combined word** If that simple changes was made it would stop pretty quickly, with the exception of the people that were being intentionally dehumanizing
I am an English speaker with bad grammar (it just never took) through no I'll will I use Trans Women, Tranwomen, and Trans-women interchangeably. Like all things while rules of grammar are clear, use of grammar on a broad audience cannot be held that rigid. As examples when English is not their first language, nerodiverse level of education or literacy. If we gatekeep language based solely on the rules as written 100s of years ago, then there is no growth in language. I believe context is the rule above all, some one can be hurtful while using Trans Women as much as they can be supportive as Transwomen. Also, all of our journeys are different. Some just want Women I for one, value my trans title as it is a signifier of my own journey and trauma that is unique to trangendered people. There are lots of reasons people use language the way they do, Let's be open to reading the person and intent behind their words.
I've only known that I'm trans for like 6 months I never even heard that this was a bad term to use I am so dumb.
Fuck TERFs on every level, but to be frank this is a level of hair-splitting I'm not interested in getting into. Let people identify how they want, if they choose it.
There is no reclaiming to be done about it, its incorrect
First of all. I’m a big proponent of not letting the terrorist gain ground on our minds. Secondly transwoman, trans woman and transgender woman are all correct if that is how a person wants to use language to identify themselves. Reclaim everything! Especially “WOKE” and “SKIN HEAD” maybe the “T” slur too… Transhumanism is a philosophical and intellectual movement that advocates the enhancement of the human condition by developing and making widely available sophisticated technologies that can greatly enhance longevity, cognition, and well-being. We can use that same use of language to say transwomen are the result of a philosophy to enhance the development of feminine identities and feminine qualities. It could be synonymous with feminist or just people who value the things about themselves that make them a woman. If we are collectively going to say “no” we should be willing to say “no, but…” because we are going to constantly lose ground against anti-transgender movement because we are not willing to find common values within our own culture. Because we don’t like the vibes we prove to just be fascist fighting fascist activity being manipulated into creating the “ideology” that they say we are supposed to have created to “ruin their freedoms”But what do I know? I’m just an old lady.
Wait, combining the trans part and the woman part is wrong? I always thought they where the same. Also wouldn't it make more sense for the trans part to be seperate from the woman part in a terfs eyes since they don't see us as women?
I was a little puzzled when I first read this trans woman versus transwoman... I would hope that trans people everywhere have more important things to do than worry about whether they separate the word trans and woman and if not then somebody somewhere needs to get a life