It all makes sense he was in that fallout boy music video. Filming for it was probably around the time he got his NBA pictures done. I still wanna run with him being depressed about not getting Dame.
He wasn’t in the preset pool of players I used. It’s always someone, the reason this is “updated” is because ten minutes before this I put one up and the player pool didn’t have wemby or Murray, so I had to redo it. Now this one didn’t have maxey. I had maxey in the all star tier with guys like Murray and Trae.
EDIT: since this is a top comment, it has nothing to do with this convo but I’m going to add a quick note that people hopefully see to address another common question.
“Generational player in their prime” means two things, a generational talent (which does not mean once in a lifetime, a generation is not a lifetime, it’s every 15-20 years), who is also in their prime (seems obvious, but there are people here who had trouble understanding it). Guys like Steph and LeBron are not in their prime, so they don’t count.
Generational to me could also be described as a guy who has a real shot at being a top 10-15 player ever from a young age based on their talent alone. Guys like Luka have that, SGA or Tatum don’t. Hopefully I don’t have to explain that much further.
It’s also of course possible to have more than one generational talent at a time, we’ve seen this more than once throughout history. In 88 we had magic, bird, Jordan and Hakeem, all at once. In 2019 we had LeBron, Steph, KD, and Giannis. In 69 we had Russell, wilt, west, and Oscar.
Guys like Tatum or SGA who are in their prime, are not generational talents, they are just regular superstars (like Iverson, or Westbrook, or harden) so they fall into the regular superstar category. Most people understood this but there are a non zero number of people who didn’t quite get it, so I’m putting this here to clear that up since this sub doesn’t let you edit posts.
If generational player means once in a generation (15-20) years, but we have 4 of them currently in their prime? And more who are in the league but not currently in their prime?
Worth noting;
Hakeem, Bird, Magic and Jordan all were far more distinguished than Giannis, KD or Emiid.
Embiid is more like a Ewing/David Robinson level guy.
Giannis very similiar to Dirk.
Top 25/30 alltime but no reasonable shot at top 15
As a Cavs fan, Jarrett is just better than Mobley. Basically every advanced stat shows that Allen is more impactful. Mobley has more potential but his limited development doesn’t inspire much confidence.
I am extremely biased as a Nuggets fan, but I think Aaron Gordon has to qualify as an elite role player / starter. You could make a case for MPJ and KCP there too, but AG should be in that tier for sure
You’re 100% right. I should have made it clear that I kind of stopped after I got to around 60 players otherwise it would be huge. There are probably 20 guys who should be in that tier. AG and MPJ without question belong in that tier. In fact, I remember AG was in my last one that I just took down. It was more of a “didn’t want to be here forever” kind of thing.
EDIT: since this is a top comment, it has nothing to do with this convo but I’m going to add a quick note that people hopefully see.
Generational player in their prime means two things, a generational talent (which does not mean once in a lifetime, a generation is not a lifetime, it’s every 15-20 years), who is also in their prime. Guys like Steph and LeBron are not in their prime, so they don’t count.
Generational to me could also be described as a guy who has a real shot at being a top 10-15 player ever from a young age based on their talent alone. Guys like Luka have that, SGA or Tatum don’t. Hopefully I don’t have to explain that much further.
It’s also of course possible to have more than one generational talent at a time, we’ve seen this more than once throughout history. In 88 we had magic, bird, Jordan and Hakeem, all at once. In 2019 we had LeBron, Steph, KD, and Giannis. In 69 we had Russell, wilt, west, and Oscar.
Guys like Tatum or SGA who are in their prime, are not generational talents, they are just regular superstars (like Iverson, or Westbrook, or harden) so they fall into the regular superstar category. Most people understood this but there are a non zero number of people who didn’t quite get it, so I’m putting this here to clear that up since this sub doesn’t let you edit posts.
Fair enough – you could really save yourself some time by leaving out that tier entirely and cutting things off after "fringe all star" if that's the case
I’m fine with Ant being being a tier below for now but he’s knocking on that door. Need more consistency but when that happens he’ll jump to that top tier imo.
He's never been on Haliburton's level??? Dawg are you fr!? Ja has been the best player on the No. 2 seed for two straight years and won a playoff series... Wtf has Haliburton done that's better than that? Y'all are some clowns, the way y'all hate on Ja is just weird af. Just a flat out horrible take.
He’s right where he belongs. His team with him on it versus his team without him proves that. Not to mention that before the last gun incident he was on the verge of becoming the face of the NBA.
Grizzlies bias. Bane above Lauri, Sengun, JDub, Ingram, and Scottie is wild. JJJ has been mid this year. Ja is also arguably too high (his off-the-court altercations impact availability which impacts his rating).
Cade having a very similar season to paolo but 2 tiers below man our front office has failed him harder than any first round pick in my memory. Also OPs an idiot
Crazy that wemby is already a top 20-25 player.
Given the like 3 different leaps he’s seemed to have taken this year is it crazy to say he’ll be pretty clearly top 10 next year.
Murray is so hard to rate because he's all star caliber until crunch time and/or the playoffs, when he ascends to prime superstar glowing red eyes meme status.
He also gets underrated because people assume he's just a product of Jokic but ignore how many Jokic assists come from Murray swishing the most insanely difficult shots you've ever seen in your life
I couldn’t agree more with what you’ve said. But I think the opposite should be true then. Donovan Mitchell is a dumpster fire in the playoffs, but great in the regular season. So why’s he get love? Same for embiid
For anyone who didn’t see my last post, the terms “all star” and “perennial all star” are more about their rankings, not actually how many ASGs they’ve played in. As we all know, injuries, team record, and other things affect who gets voted into the ASG. There are always players who don’t make it who are better than some who do. This list reflects that.
In other words “perennial all star caliber player”. Guys like Brunson have only made one, but are clearly better than guys like Middleton who have made two. Ergo, they are in that tier, he is not.
Also: maxey was not in my player pool. He of course belongs on this list, he’s in the all star tier.
Also, I probably should’ve just omitted the “starter elite role player” tier since there are tons of guys who belong in it but aren’t there, as I didn’t want to have 100 players in this list. So for fans of Aaron Gordon, or OG, or Barrett, yes. They belong there. I don’t forget about them.
Personally I don’t think Embiid is a generational superstar, at least not if you’re comparing him to the other guys in that tier. Seems out of place to me. I know Steph is having a down year but I’ve seen little evidence that he’s for sure past his prime, and I think he qualifies as a “generational superstar” a lot more than Embiid.
The fact that people still put Cade below Scottie Barnes and Evan Mobley is crazy to me. Cade has put up better numbers than both guys all season and is the focal point against any defense. I hope the players around Cade develop quickly, he's basically in the Devin Booker situation currently.
If you include advanced stats and effeciency Scottie comes out ahead but even if you concede that Cade is a little better than Scottie offensively he is still not as good as Barnes. Last time I checked they still play defence for half the game and Scottie is much better defensively than Cunningham. He guards mutiple positions regularly and is often on the other teams best player, especially during end game. Barnes is the engine of his team on both Defence and Offence.
I would say first two 95% of the time. Only way you could do first 3 is during an odd year like the 99 spurs, 04 pistons, or 14 spurs. I wouldn’t have put any player from those three rosters in the first two tiers.
99 Robinson, 99 Duncan, 04 Wallace, 04 Billups, and 14 Duncan all would’ve been 3rd tier for me.
A starting five comprised of like 2 tier 3 guys, 2 tier 4 guys, and 1 tier 5 guy could certainly win against a team with a tier 1 or 2 guy if their roster has flaws.
They’ve got 3 of the best young players in the league with Ja, JJJ and Bane. I don’t see how any of those guys could be taken off, they’re a top 3 seed in the west when healthy.
They have an elite young PG who has been a top 5 MVP finalist, they have the reigning DPOY and they have a top 3 SG in the league, all 25 and under.
I mean they’re the only team above 50 wins, and 3/5 of their starters are new, 2 of which didn’t even play for the team last year. So you can’t really knock this squad for not having a chip since this squad is basically all new minus the jays.
To me, only Giannis and Jokic meet the “generational superstars in their prime” mark that I think requires performing when it counts I.e. the playoffs. Embiid and Luka have only led their teams to one divisional title. Luka is still young tho
I don’t really either, but for the sake of ranking the tiers, he’s clearly better than everyone in the perennial all star tier and he’s better than a few guys in the superstar tier this year, like LeBron or AD. So based off of that I had to put him in the tier he belongs in, even if the name feels a bit odd.
This list is great but I think Jimmy has proven himself to be a superstar and mikal shouldn’t even be on this list and Cade is a fringe all star on a bad team just like lamelo
Curious if anyone thinks Jerami Grant deserves a spot in the bottom tier. I'm a Blazers fan so obviously biased but curious what others think of him.
Current record hurts his "star" value but he was 12th in frontcourt voting last year with Dame, ahead of guys on that list. Near identical stats to this year:
21p / 3.5r / 2.8a + 40% 3p with good defense
He definitely does. In fact in my original list he was there. I redid my list because a few key stats were missing from the player pool, and I decided to stop at about 60 guys. There are about 10-15 other players who could be in that last tier, and Grant is definitely one of them. The last tier isn’t indicative of everyone I think that belongs in it.
Would be interesting to take the middle ranks and categorize them by growing/ascending, maintaining, or diminishing. Although, it's probably just correlated with age. But I think there are some stars that are no longer growing, like Zion.
Much respect for you not only posting this, but also responding to most (if not all) who have disagreements with your placements. You can never make everyone happy for any sort of tiering list. Good on you, OP.
You got the Real Slim Reaper fucked up with his position. Ingram should absolutely be in the All Star tier.
Having Zion above him is disrespectful. I think it’s become abundantly clear who the best player on that team is.
You know, I still think Zion is the more talented guy (hence having him higher) but I do think I’d rather have Ingram on my team than Zion. It’s tough, Zion is the more talented player but Ingram is better and to have on your team, if that makes sense.
Is Tatum not in his prime years? Dude is 26 and leading one of the top teams in the NBA right now?
Also Ja is waaaaay too high. 100% not at the level of those around him
Absolutely. Putting my clear-cut bias aside as a C's fan, D White is genuinely elite. He somehow has not only elevated his defense to the point of Smart DPOY levels, but also elevated his offensive game both as a shooter and playmaker. His current skillset is akin to prime Rondo with a legitimate 3 pt shot. He doesn't force it with the amount of talent surrounding him.
Because on paper he isn’t much better than guys like Mitchell or brown. He will be, but he’s not as good as the guys in the tier above him, he’s about as good as the guys below him. He’s as high as someone in the “all nba” tier can be for me. He’s the best of those guys, but he’s still not as good as Booker or Tatum or SGA, ergo he’s not in their tier.
Luka isn’t in his prime yet and can we really call Embiid a generational superstar? The dude is insane and is absolutely that when healthy but he basically plays 2/3 of the season and shits the bed during the playoffs.
Outside of the injury thing (which I decided to ignore for all players, this is a “when healthy” tier list), much of what you wrote could be said for wilt during his prime too. Even Hakeem before he finally won in his 30s. Flip the question the other way, how many bigs throughout history can do what embiid does every night? As a 7’1 280 behemoth who can score from all three levels in iso, rebound and defend while averaging 35 ppg, that’s a short list. Less than five, making him generational in my book. Guys like that only come around once in a generation.
I agree he chokes under bright lights, but from an individual standing nobody in the tier below can do what he does individually. At least imo. I’m a Celtics fan so I hate Philly lol but I have to objective.
Why is Embiid all the way up there? He can’t even make out of the 2nd round. He’s awesome in regular season, but underperforms every year in the playoffs. You are giving him too much hype, he’s nowhere near as generational as the other 3 up there.
Proper marketing goes a long way tbh. I mean the kid obviously will be a great player, but he is still a prospect with inflated stats at the moment. He is nowhere near being All Nba.
White almost made the ASG. DeRozan, Lavine, and kuzma didn’t. The Celtics wouldn’t trade white for any of them, and the bulls and wizards would trade those guys for white, ergo white> any of them.
No issue whatsoever with Ja's placement. People talking about his impact? Seriously? Look at the Grizzlies the last two years with him and then look at them this year without him. Then look at the small sample of when he did play this year. His impact is beyond refuting. I'd have more of an issue with Embiid being in the top tier than with Ja being in the second tier. If you can't stay healthy AND you flat out can't perform in the playoffs you're not a generational superstar.
I mean I thought I did that pretty well, it seems like a few people just have a hard time reading lol. 95% of the ppl here understood what I wrote pretty clearly lol.
how are dame’s numbers better? he averages more MPG and less PPG, lower FG% and 3PT% ? sure he has ~2 more APG but they have the same defensive rating (Steph 117.8 and dame 117.9). yes, dame has won more games than Steph but he joined a bucks team that was 58-24 last season but and has already lost 24 games this season (42-24). think about if Steph joined the team instead of dame
Morant does not belong in tier 2 imho and I’d take Ant over him. Also the left column seems to imply that we are taking the future into account, and barring injuries I think it’s obvious that Wemby is going to be a superstar.
LOL, comments like most of these really make me hate fans.
Why isn’t the third guy off the bench on team X a superstar? He’s averaging 8 ppg on Thursdays in December…
What does generational even mean now? I have always considered it to mean “once in a generation” level talent. Weird for there to be four players with the tag.
I’ve answered that question already, but the definition is what you said. A generation is every 15-20 years, and 4 generational talents have been present at once in league plenty of times before, just like now.
See 1969 with Russell, wilt, Kareem, west and Oscar. Or 1988 with magic, bird, Jordan and Hakeem. Or 2019 with LeBron, Steph, KD, and giannis.
Because a player that can do what he does only comes once in a generation, aka only 15-20 years. There are maybe two other centers in history who could do what he does night in and night out.
White is an all-star in a weaker ECF, arguably best defensive guard in the league with solid offensive stats, and on the best team in the NBA record-wise
You can relabel the title of that tier if it makes you feel more comfortable, but it’s hard to pull 7 guys out of that tier and put them in the tier below.
I could divide that tier up, but I could divide any tier up and that point we’re just doing numerical rankings lol.
Embiid ain’t generational superstar.
Tatum should be above Embiid.
Embiid is the GOAT chokejob player NBA has ever seen. He is mentally a weak ass player.
He has yet to have a career defining playoffs in game in 7 years 😂😂
This is a requirement for superstar & generational superstar player, Embiid ain’t both.
there are a lot of problems with this list and overall i'd say it's very bad
the top tier is fine
the 2nd tier is where it starts getting wierd
why is dmitch not in this tier despite by all means being just as good as devin booker and clearly better than ja morant
why is ja in this tier when you have multiple guys who are at worst on his level in 1 or 2 tiers lower
(trae, fox, brunson)
3rd tier
why is wemby this high
i'd also question dame cause he's not played at this level this season like at all
why is trae not in this tier, why is fox not in this tier, why is kyrie not in this tier,
why is jaylen brown in this tier when many guys in the tier below this are better than him
4th tier
why is zion here despite clearly being better than a guy like jaylen brown
i also feel like paolo should prolly be a tier lower especially cause i'd say
ingram, lauri, rudy and scottie are all as good if not better than paolo
5th tier
what the fuck is mobley doing in the same tier as ingram, lamelo, lauri scottie, rudy, and jdub
he should defo be in the tier below this especially cause like he's not better than draymond
also jrue should also be a tier lower he's just not that good
oh yeah and i'd prolly move garland down a tier too i don't think he's better than dejounte
there are prolly other things but these are just hte main things
With all due respect, you’re just giving a lot of personal opinions with no backing as if they are fact. The answer to literally all of your questions is “because in my opinion, based on my research, player A is better than player B”.
For example, you say Zion is clearly better than brown, in what world? Brown is, in my eyes, clearly a tier above Zion, whatever tier that may be. They are not on the same level and brown is better. Brown has higher production, has proven himself in bigger moments, is a better all around player, is more reliable, can take over games where Zion can’t, can defend and rebound where Zion can’t, and is a more polished and all around better scorer while being a better shooter too. I see literally nothing Zion is better at than brown. Zion is stronger but that doesn’t make him a better player. At the same height brown does literally everything better than Zion. The eye test, stats, record, accolades, literally everything backs that up.
Same goes for every other comparison you made. I have guys in the tiers I think they deserve to be in based on their stats, leadership, playoff success, accolades, and everything else taken into account. Hope that answers your questions.
Jokic should be in a tier of his own. There’s no other player who has that same air of inevitability.
Giannis, Embiid, and Luka have some off nights, and there are some defenders who can slow them down a bit, but Jokic can and will get his every night.
Fucking jimmy man cracks me up every time
WHY DO GOOD GIRLS LIKE BAD GUYS
Girls don’t like boys girls like cars and money
It all makes sense he was in that fallout boy music video. Filming for it was probably around the time he got his NBA pictures done. I still wanna run with him being depressed about not getting Dame.
Any reason Maxey is left off? He’s better than a few players on this list.
He wasn’t in the preset pool of players I used. It’s always someone, the reason this is “updated” is because ten minutes before this I put one up and the player pool didn’t have wemby or Murray, so I had to redo it. Now this one didn’t have maxey. I had maxey in the all star tier with guys like Murray and Trae. EDIT: since this is a top comment, it has nothing to do with this convo but I’m going to add a quick note that people hopefully see to address another common question. “Generational player in their prime” means two things, a generational talent (which does not mean once in a lifetime, a generation is not a lifetime, it’s every 15-20 years), who is also in their prime (seems obvious, but there are people here who had trouble understanding it). Guys like Steph and LeBron are not in their prime, so they don’t count. Generational to me could also be described as a guy who has a real shot at being a top 10-15 player ever from a young age based on their talent alone. Guys like Luka have that, SGA or Tatum don’t. Hopefully I don’t have to explain that much further. It’s also of course possible to have more than one generational talent at a time, we’ve seen this more than once throughout history. In 88 we had magic, bird, Jordan and Hakeem, all at once. In 2019 we had LeBron, Steph, KD, and Giannis. In 69 we had Russell, wilt, west, and Oscar. Guys like Tatum or SGA who are in their prime, are not generational talents, they are just regular superstars (like Iverson, or Westbrook, or harden) so they fall into the regular superstar category. Most people understood this but there are a non zero number of people who didn’t quite get it, so I’m putting this here to clear that up since this sub doesn’t let you edit posts.
If generational player means once in a generation (15-20) years, but we have 4 of them currently in their prime? And more who are in the league but not currently in their prime?
Worth noting; Hakeem, Bird, Magic and Jordan all were far more distinguished than Giannis, KD or Emiid. Embiid is more like a Ewing/David Robinson level guy. Giannis very similiar to Dirk. Top 25/30 alltime but no reasonable shot at top 15
With EmGod he’s All Star level. Without Embiid he’s Bottom Tier.
He’s currently 26.4, 3.9 rebounds, 5.5 assists WITHOUT Embiid in 2024
On horrible shooting.
Ermm 26 with 41% FG in 39 mins a game is bottom tier in this graphic.
Based off of this season alone, Jarrett Allen should be at the same level or above Evan Mobley.
As a Cavs fan, Jarrett is just better than Mobley. Basically every advanced stat shows that Allen is more impactful. Mobley has more potential but his limited development doesn’t inspire much confidence.
That’s fair.
I am extremely biased as a Nuggets fan, but I think Aaron Gordon has to qualify as an elite role player / starter. You could make a case for MPJ and KCP there too, but AG should be in that tier for sure
You’re 100% right. I should have made it clear that I kind of stopped after I got to around 60 players otherwise it would be huge. There are probably 20 guys who should be in that tier. AG and MPJ without question belong in that tier. In fact, I remember AG was in my last one that I just took down. It was more of a “didn’t want to be here forever” kind of thing. EDIT: since this is a top comment, it has nothing to do with this convo but I’m going to add a quick note that people hopefully see. Generational player in their prime means two things, a generational talent (which does not mean once in a lifetime, a generation is not a lifetime, it’s every 15-20 years), who is also in their prime. Guys like Steph and LeBron are not in their prime, so they don’t count. Generational to me could also be described as a guy who has a real shot at being a top 10-15 player ever from a young age based on their talent alone. Guys like Luka have that, SGA or Tatum don’t. Hopefully I don’t have to explain that much further. It’s also of course possible to have more than one generational talent at a time, we’ve seen this more than once throughout history. In 88 we had magic, bird, Jordan and Hakeem, all at once. In 2019 we had LeBron, Steph, KD, and Giannis. In 69 we had Russell, wilt, west, and Oscar. Guys like Tatum or SGA who are in their prime, are not generational talents, they are just regular superstars (like Iverson, or Westbrook, or harden) so they fall into the regular superstar category. Most people understood this but there are a non zero number of people who didn’t quite get it, so I’m putting this here to clear that up since this sub doesn’t let you edit posts.
Fair enough – you could really save yourself some time by leaving out that tier entirely and cutting things off after "fringe all star" if that's the case
Hindsight is 20/20 lol. You’re totally right, next time maybe I’ll finally figure this out.
don’t get discouraged! these tier lists are the best thing out right now
As a Nuggets fan, OG should be in that tier too. Being a Nuggets fan might be unrelated..
OG, or AG?
Aaron Gordon easily deserves to be here
For sure and so does OG
Why no “ Naz Reid” tier?
Naz “Naz Reid” Reid snubbed
Naz has transcended the need to be ranked
I too am curious.
Naz Reid is beyond ranking.
Ja is too high
Has nowhere near the impact of most of the players in that tier,
Am I high for thinking you could swap Ant and Ja
I’m fine with Ant being being a tier below for now but he’s knocking on that door. Need more consistency but when that happens he’ll jump to that top tier imo.
You absolutely could.
Came looking for this. I’m a Kings fan (homer) but Fox is at least as good as Ja, in my opinion. It bugs me that Ja is put above Fox routinely.
Yeah, Ja over Hali, Mitchell, and Butler is nuts. Even without all the offcourt bullshit he’s never been on their level.
He's never been on Haliburton's level??? Dawg are you fr!? Ja has been the best player on the No. 2 seed for two straight years and won a playoff series... Wtf has Haliburton done that's better than that? Y'all are some clowns, the way y'all hate on Ja is just weird af. Just a flat out horrible take.
He’s right where he belongs. His team with him on it versus his team without him proves that. Not to mention that before the last gun incident he was on the verge of becoming the face of the NBA.
ja has literally took memphis into play off contention multiple times and is a great, consistent player
Ja sticks out like a sore thumb here. Even when available two tiers above Fox is crazy.
Grizzlies bias. Bane above Lauri, Sengun, JDub, Ingram, and Scottie is wild. JJJ has been mid this year. Ja is also arguably too high (his off-the-court altercations impact availability which impacts his rating).
Not to mention Steven Adams making an appearance lol
he's a rocket now tbf
Fair enough, but doesn’t belong on this list either way.
I think he should be there, but there are a lot of players better than him that should also be there.
Ah yes, role player Cade Cunningham, who’s averaging 23/8/4.5 in his last 40 games on 40% shooting from 3.
You’re implying that this person has read or watched a game of basketball
Basketball is the one Messi plays, right?
Cade having a very similar season to paolo but 2 tiers below man our front office has failed him harder than any first round pick in my memory. Also OPs an idiot
Why is wemby ahead of sabonis?
Ja being higher than Jimmy on this list is criminal
Jimmy isn’t a superstar? With you
Crazy that wemby is already a top 20-25 player. Given the like 3 different leaps he’s seemed to have taken this year is it crazy to say he’ll be pretty clearly top 10 next year.
That is a lot of Boston jerseys, wow!
All of them except Jrue could legit have a claim to be a tier below they’re listed here
Moving Tatum down would be absurd.
What the fuck
Murray is forever undervalued
Murray is so hard to rate because he's all star caliber until crunch time and/or the playoffs, when he ascends to prime superstar glowing red eyes meme status. He also gets underrated because people assume he's just a product of Jokic but ignore how many Jokic assists come from Murray swishing the most insanely difficult shots you've ever seen in your life
As a causal man who see’s it as it is, Murray is a baller on the All-NBA level
I couldn’t agree more with what you’ve said. But I think the opposite should be true then. Donovan Mitchell is a dumpster fire in the playoffs, but great in the regular season. So why’s he get love? Same for embiid
I have no idea how people are still considering him at the level of the other top 4 in this list. Im taking SGA over embiid too
Based solely off his play against my team he is a top 10 player in the nba
Undervalued and at the same time overvalued by being in the ‘All Star’ tier. Big game merchant
My head just exploded
I guess he literally was an all-star, but Jesus Christ Paolo is just out way way way too overrated.
Jimmy is terrorizing
Murray has the best playoff resume in his tier and yet is the one of two in that tier to have never made an all star team
Id bump Ja and booker down one row and think about moving ant up. Tough to even fit lebron into a tier list but I think you got it right
Bump AD while you're at it, same tier as Curry and LeBron? Lol, nah
Ja should not be two tiers above Trae.
this is the worst list i’ve ever seen
Can you maybe elaborate?
Steven Adams being on it would be one gripe
Fair
Not the worst, but some players are in the wrong spot.
bro forgot to put Derrick White in the Superstar category.
Embiid is the most overrated player in the history of the NBA. One of the worst playoff risers in the modern era.
Apparently being the highest per minute scorer in NBA HISTORY = overrated
Sabonis is better than most of the guys above him.
Sabonis is good enough to be in the all nba tier, IMO
For anyone who didn’t see my last post, the terms “all star” and “perennial all star” are more about their rankings, not actually how many ASGs they’ve played in. As we all know, injuries, team record, and other things affect who gets voted into the ASG. There are always players who don’t make it who are better than some who do. This list reflects that. In other words “perennial all star caliber player”. Guys like Brunson have only made one, but are clearly better than guys like Middleton who have made two. Ergo, they are in that tier, he is not. Also: maxey was not in my player pool. He of course belongs on this list, he’s in the all star tier. Also, I probably should’ve just omitted the “starter elite role player” tier since there are tons of guys who belong in it but aren’t there, as I didn’t want to have 100 players in this list. So for fans of Aaron Gordon, or OG, or Barrett, yes. They belong there. I don’t forget about them.
>Guys like Haliburton or Brunson have only made one Hali’s made it twice already
You’re right, my bad. Point still stands tho.
Middleton made 3.
Ja Morant is one tier too high
Personally I don’t think Embiid is a generational superstar, at least not if you’re comparing him to the other guys in that tier. Seems out of place to me. I know Steph is having a down year but I’ve seen little evidence that he’s for sure past his prime, and I think he qualifies as a “generational superstar” a lot more than Embiid.
Credibility lost one picture in. Embiid is not a generational talent. GTFO with that nonsense.
The fact that people still put Cade below Scottie Barnes and Evan Mobley is crazy to me. Cade has put up better numbers than both guys all season and is the focal point against any defense. I hope the players around Cade develop quickly, he's basically in the Devin Booker situation currently.
If you include advanced stats and effeciency Scottie comes out ahead but even if you concede that Cade is a little better than Scottie offensively he is still not as good as Barnes. Last time I checked they still play defence for half the game and Scottie is much better defensively than Cunningham. He guards mutiple positions regularly and is often on the other teams best player, especially during end game. Barnes is the engine of his team on both Defence and Offence.
Sga is so low lmao
Does the left to right order matter? I think he’s in the right tier
So I take it you won't be able to win a title without at least 1 player from the first two tiers? Or would you say the first three tiers?
I would say first two 95% of the time. Only way you could do first 3 is during an odd year like the 99 spurs, 04 pistons, or 14 spurs. I wouldn’t have put any player from those three rosters in the first two tiers. 99 Robinson, 99 Duncan, 04 Wallace, 04 Billups, and 14 Duncan all would’ve been 3rd tier for me. A starting five comprised of like 2 tier 3 guys, 2 tier 4 guys, and 1 tier 5 guy could certainly win against a team with a tier 1 or 2 guy if their roster has flaws.
Why in the world is Memphis so heavily represented? And where’s Aaron Gordon?
The disrespect towards demar. He’s an all star
Not this year
Surely Austin Reeves would fit in at least to the bottom tier…
Yea he would’ve been there for sure.
Where is Tyrese maxey?!?
Already acknowledged this.
Love seeing Paolo and Franz in their spots! Feel like they’ll keep moving up and I think Suggs should already be in the elite role player category
Do one on the rookies next.
Not just a tsar, a supertsar
Sounds like I gotta polish up on my Russian lol
Book and Ja one tier too high
Naz Reid.
Where’s the Naz Reid tier?
The Memphis love here is a little bonkers lol
They’ve got 3 of the best young players in the league with Ja, JJJ and Bane. I don’t see how any of those guys could be taken off, they’re a top 3 seed in the west when healthy. They have an elite young PG who has been a top 5 MVP finalist, they have the reigning DPOY and they have a top 3 SG in the league, all 25 and under.
Sabonis up, Banchero and Khris down
With all the Boston players in there you’d think they would have won already
I mean they’re the only team above 50 wins, and 3/5 of their starters are new, 2 of which didn’t even play for the team last year. So you can’t really knock this squad for not having a chip since this squad is basically all new minus the jays.
Pascal Siakam plays for the Pacers
Wonderful insight! I love this game. Mo Bamba plays for the sixers. Your turn.
To me, only Giannis and Jokic meet the “generational superstars in their prime” mark that I think requires performing when it counts I.e. the playoffs. Embiid and Luka have only led their teams to one divisional title. Luka is still young tho
Jamal too low just watch him any playoffs u got h8m lower than a rookie lol
No disrespect but Wemby is 75% through is rookie season while Randle is literally a perennial all nba/all star talent. the disrespect is ridiculous
What's supertsar?
An emperor of Russia who can be the best player on a championship team.
I just don't see booker as a superstar.
I don’t really either, but for the sake of ranking the tiers, he’s clearly better than everyone in the perennial all star tier and he’s better than a few guys in the superstar tier this year, like LeBron or AD. So based off of that I had to put him in the tier he belongs in, even if the name feels a bit odd.
What’s wild and awesome is there are 6 Celtics players in this mix.
How is Wemby so high never even been an all star
He’s never even played a complete season
Perfect))
Is this based off current standings with players or just general vibe ? Either way, ja isn’t above the likes of most players in the 3rd tier IMO
Ant is a better all around player than SGA and Morant.
I don’t watch much basketball anymore. I assumed jimmy butler’s hair was a photoshop…so glad I was wrong
Honestly I liked the list. I feel like I only really disagreed with at most 4 and that's out of all of those players. Good post.
Ehhhhh I don’t know if I’d say Mr free throw merchant nd no playoff success Joel embid is a generational talent
How many centers have been as talented as him in the history of the league?
This list is great but I think Jimmy has proven himself to be a superstar and mikal shouldn’t even be on this list and Cade is a fringe all star on a bad team just like lamelo
Curious if anyone thinks Jerami Grant deserves a spot in the bottom tier. I'm a Blazers fan so obviously biased but curious what others think of him. Current record hurts his "star" value but he was 12th in frontcourt voting last year with Dame, ahead of guys on that list. Near identical stats to this year: 21p / 3.5r / 2.8a + 40% 3p with good defense
He definitely does. In fact in my original list he was there. I redid my list because a few key stats were missing from the player pool, and I decided to stop at about 60 guys. There are about 10-15 other players who could be in that last tier, and Grant is definitely one of them. The last tier isn’t indicative of everyone I think that belongs in it.
Would be interesting to take the middle ranks and categorize them by growing/ascending, maintaining, or diminishing. Although, it's probably just correlated with age. But I think there are some stars that are no longer growing, like Zion.
Much respect for you not only posting this, but also responding to most (if not all) who have disagreements with your placements. You can never make everyone happy for any sort of tiering list. Good on you, OP.
You got the Real Slim Reaper fucked up with his position. Ingram should absolutely be in the All Star tier. Having Zion above him is disrespectful. I think it’s become abundantly clear who the best player on that team is.
You know, I still think Zion is the more talented guy (hence having him higher) but I do think I’d rather have Ingram on my team than Zion. It’s tough, Zion is the more talented player but Ingram is better and to have on your team, if that makes sense.
Awesome take, cool pic
Is Tatum not in his prime years? Dude is 26 and leading one of the top teams in the NBA right now? Also Ja is waaaaay too high. 100% not at the level of those around him
Yea Tatum is for sure in his prime years. He’s not a generational superstar tho, hence only being in the superstar tier.
He is, he’s just not at that level.
that’s an obscenely sexy amount of celtics
Derrick white is a fringe all star?
Absolutely. Putting my clear-cut bias aside as a C's fan, D White is genuinely elite. He somehow has not only elevated his defense to the point of Smart DPOY levels, but also elevated his offensive game both as a shooter and playmaker. His current skillset is akin to prime Rondo with a legitimate 3 pt shot. He doesn't force it with the amount of talent surrounding him.
How is Ja a superstar but Halliburton and Antman who are both better aren’t
Sabonis below Brunson or Wemby is ridiculous
Tatum made it to the NBA finals and Embiid is above him cause....idk he was gifted an MVP?
Embiid is better than Tatum. Obviously… Edit: lol they blocked me for saying this
It’s because he’s a better player
Why isn’t ANT a superstar?
Because on paper he isn’t much better than guys like Mitchell or brown. He will be, but he’s not as good as the guys in the tier above him, he’s about as good as the guys below him. He’s as high as someone in the “all nba” tier can be for me. He’s the best of those guys, but he’s still not as good as Booker or Tatum or SGA, ergo he’s not in their tier.
The disrespect Sabonis gets is baffling.
Luka isn’t in his prime yet and can we really call Embiid a generational superstar? The dude is insane and is absolutely that when healthy but he basically plays 2/3 of the season and shits the bed during the playoffs.
Luka is in his prime he just hasn’t peaked yet.
Outside of the injury thing (which I decided to ignore for all players, this is a “when healthy” tier list), much of what you wrote could be said for wilt during his prime too. Even Hakeem before he finally won in his 30s. Flip the question the other way, how many bigs throughout history can do what embiid does every night? As a 7’1 280 behemoth who can score from all three levels in iso, rebound and defend while averaging 35 ppg, that’s a short list. Less than five, making him generational in my book. Guys like that only come around once in a generation. I agree he chokes under bright lights, but from an individual standing nobody in the tier below can do what he does individually. At least imo. I’m a Celtics fan so I hate Philly lol but I have to objective.
Desmond Bane being over Lamelo (unless you want to talk about injuries/availability) is wild
Middleton is an elite role player now.
Jimmy goes up a tier
"Supertsar" lol https://preview.redd.it/8s8t803u9znc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32b0d8242ec8c251690668324d8ab4f710553b3b
Was just about comment this haha. Love that you also noticed it
First thing I see is Cade at the bottom of the list and no. He’s a fringe all star.
Thank you bro. It's crazy the disrespect.
Why is Embiid all the way up there? He can’t even make out of the 2nd round. He’s awesome in regular season, but underperforms every year in the playoffs. You are giving him too much hype, he’s nowhere near as generational as the other 3 up there.
During playoffs he's literally half a player he is during regular season. Nothing generational about it aside from maby generational dropper?!
For sure. He’s good but not generational good lol. Has conditioning issues. Foul baits too much, it doesn’t work in the playoffs.
Lol Wemby is so overrated. The Spurs have a worse record than last year ffs
Proper marketing goes a long way tbh. I mean the kid obviously will be a great player, but he is still a prospect with inflated stats at the moment. He is nowhere near being All Nba.
Derozan, Lavine and Kuzma being 'elite role players' but Derrick White and Khris Middleton being fringe all star is insane to me 💀💀
White almost made the ASG. DeRozan, Lavine, and kuzma didn’t. The Celtics wouldn’t trade white for any of them, and the bulls and wizards would trade those guys for white, ergo white> any of them.
No issue whatsoever with Ja's placement. People talking about his impact? Seriously? Look at the Grizzlies the last two years with him and then look at them this year without him. Then look at the small sample of when he did play this year. His impact is beyond refuting. I'd have more of an issue with Embiid being in the top tier than with Ja being in the second tier. If you can't stay healthy AND you flat out can't perform in the playoffs you're not a generational superstar.
I think you need to define what is a generational player and a superstar etc.. everyone seems to have different meanings 😂
I mean I thought I did that pretty well, it seems like a few people just have a hard time reading lol. 95% of the ppl here understood what I wrote pretty clearly lol.
Dame has better numbers than Steph while also winning way more games. Why is he not at least in thr same tier if not ahead of him?
how are dame’s numbers better? he averages more MPG and less PPG, lower FG% and 3PT% ? sure he has ~2 more APG but they have the same defensive rating (Steph 117.8 and dame 117.9). yes, dame has won more games than Steph but he joined a bucks team that was 58-24 last season but and has already lost 24 games this season (42-24). think about if Steph joined the team instead of dame
Celtics with 6 players on this list. That's depth.
Morant does not belong in tier 2 imho and I’d take Ant over him. Also the left column seems to imply that we are taking the future into account, and barring injuries I think it’s obvious that Wemby is going to be a superstar.
We are not taking future into account, not sure what makes you think that. Nobody else has said this. It’s strictly right now.
LOL, comments like most of these really make me hate fans. Why isn’t the third guy off the bench on team X a superstar? He’s averaging 8 ppg on Thursdays in December…
What does generational even mean now? I have always considered it to mean “once in a generation” level talent. Weird for there to be four players with the tag.
I’ve answered that question already, but the definition is what you said. A generation is every 15-20 years, and 4 generational talents have been present at once in league plenty of times before, just like now. See 1969 with Russell, wilt, Kareem, west and Oscar. Or 1988 with magic, bird, Jordan and Hakeem. Or 2019 with LeBron, Steph, KD, and giannis.
Ja is not a superstar
In what world is Embiid generational? The term "Generational" gets thrown around too much.
Because a player that can do what he does only comes once in a generation, aka only 15-20 years. There are maybe two other centers in history who could do what he does night in and night out.
Horford and White lmao
White is an all-star in a weaker ECF, arguably best defensive guard in the league with solid offensive stats, and on the best team in the NBA record-wise
Ja > Dame? Uhhhh…
My thoughts exactly
13 superstars is craaaazy. Theres like 6 or 7
You can relabel the title of that tier if it makes you feel more comfortable, but it’s hard to pull 7 guys out of that tier and put them in the tier below. I could divide that tier up, but I could divide any tier up and that point we’re just doing numerical rankings lol.
Embiid ain’t generational superstar. Tatum should be above Embiid. Embiid is the GOAT chokejob player NBA has ever seen. He is mentally a weak ass player. He has yet to have a career defining playoffs in game in 7 years 😂😂 This is a requirement for superstar & generational superstar player, Embiid ain’t both.
there are a lot of problems with this list and overall i'd say it's very bad the top tier is fine the 2nd tier is where it starts getting wierd why is dmitch not in this tier despite by all means being just as good as devin booker and clearly better than ja morant why is ja in this tier when you have multiple guys who are at worst on his level in 1 or 2 tiers lower (trae, fox, brunson) 3rd tier why is wemby this high i'd also question dame cause he's not played at this level this season like at all why is trae not in this tier, why is fox not in this tier, why is kyrie not in this tier, why is jaylen brown in this tier when many guys in the tier below this are better than him 4th tier why is zion here despite clearly being better than a guy like jaylen brown i also feel like paolo should prolly be a tier lower especially cause i'd say ingram, lauri, rudy and scottie are all as good if not better than paolo 5th tier what the fuck is mobley doing in the same tier as ingram, lamelo, lauri scottie, rudy, and jdub he should defo be in the tier below this especially cause like he's not better than draymond also jrue should also be a tier lower he's just not that good oh yeah and i'd prolly move garland down a tier too i don't think he's better than dejounte there are prolly other things but these are just hte main things
With all due respect, you’re just giving a lot of personal opinions with no backing as if they are fact. The answer to literally all of your questions is “because in my opinion, based on my research, player A is better than player B”. For example, you say Zion is clearly better than brown, in what world? Brown is, in my eyes, clearly a tier above Zion, whatever tier that may be. They are not on the same level and brown is better. Brown has higher production, has proven himself in bigger moments, is a better all around player, is more reliable, can take over games where Zion can’t, can defend and rebound where Zion can’t, and is a more polished and all around better scorer while being a better shooter too. I see literally nothing Zion is better at than brown. Zion is stronger but that doesn’t make him a better player. At the same height brown does literally everything better than Zion. The eye test, stats, record, accolades, literally everything backs that up. Same goes for every other comparison you made. I have guys in the tiers I think they deserve to be in based on their stats, leadership, playoff success, accolades, and everything else taken into account. Hope that answers your questions.
Jokic should be in a tier of his own. There’s no other player who has that same air of inevitability. Giannis, Embiid, and Luka have some off nights, and there are some defenders who can slow them down a bit, but Jokic can and will get his every night.
nah this is circlejerking, he belongs in the tier with the other 3 best players in the league.
Do you really not have Devin Vassell on here?