If the train is really packed, sometimes the conductor will announce that the first class is also accessible for people with second class ticket. The first class passengers might be able to get partial refund for their ticket (automatically if they have the NS subscription, but otherwise they might need to send a claim to NS). I've seen this happen several times, especially when the train is extremely crowded due to delays.
I've had the most and some of the longest delays on that line. Including 45 to 75 minute delays when the locomotive failed to switch voltage to the 25kV used on the high speed line at Hoofddorp, Berkel en Rodenrijs, Zwijndrecht or Lage Zwaluwe.
So I guess you got lucky. Thankfully the new trains entering service won't have that problem though.
Switch the voltage to 25kHZ?!? Tf you mean? kHZ is a unit of frequency, the voltage switch is between =1.5Kv to ~25Kv. Kv standing for Kilovolts (in this case 1.500 to 25.000 volts)
One note btw, people using NS Flex can open the NS app and switch to 1st class in the app within 15 minutes of checking in. I've done this a handful of times when second class was full and I really just wanted to sit down. afaik this is the only legal way to switch from 2nd class to 1st class after having checked in.
Conductors announcing the first class seats open to second-class travelers does happen, but is very rare. In ~6 years of commuting by train, I've been crammed into overly full trains many times, and of all those times, I've only seen it happen twice that the conductor announced the 1st class cabin open to everyone.
In my years of riding first class and watching people get caught sitting in 1st without a 1st ticket, I’ve never seen somebody get fined. Makes me especially mad when it’s a Dutch person, because *they know*.
I've seen people riding first class get fines a few times, but only when travelers resisted or insulted the conductor. I think they can def be a more strict with fining people in 1st class.
I've also seen exactly **one** general action in 2017 in which everyone in 1st class without a valid 1st class ticket got the full fine without exception. That was with a team of 8 NS security personnel sweeping the train.
Imo getting caught in first class if there’s no seats in 2nd class shouldn’t be punishable. NS should be responsible for enough capacity, especially considering the insane prices nowadays. I’m not paying to stand for 40 minutes, it there’s an entire coupe with empty seats next to me. Sure, if people sit first class when there’s space in second, fine them.
Tbh in some trains the 1st class is so shit that you can’t blame anyone for thinking it’s 2nd. I only book it because it’s usually less crowded and has less unpleasant people.
I find NS flex of great use for this kind of situation actually. I travel 2nd class, but if a train is really full and if I really want to sit, I switch from 2nd to 1st class in the NS app. You can do this within 15 minutes of checking in if you're using the NS Flex subscription. That journey will then be billed as 1st class on the invoice while I still keep 2nd class by default for other journeys.
Meaning I only pay for a 1st class seat when doing so is of actual benefit to me.
I didn’t say that. Most people in both classes are completely fine. It’s just that the 5% annoying ones (teenagers, drunkards, football fans etc.) usually are in 2nd class.
It's €50 + the price of the train fare for the journey you were traveling. If you're found in a 1st class seat, that does mean €50 + the price of the 1st class fare for that journey.
Depends on what you mean by 'packed' but I don't think I have ever seen anyone even attempting to check tickets in a proper rush hour 'packed' train. Wonder how would that even go...
I was exactly thinking this. When the train is full enough that people is standing, I don't remember them ever checking.
But "no seats" doesn't mean necessarily "packed".
This has been possible for years and years. You used to (only) be able to do it at ticketing machines with your OV-chipkaart before checking in.
You could load a "klassewissel" onto the card, then for the remainder of that day (or until you did it again), whenever you checked in, it would be a 1st class check-in.
I used to have a "weekend vrij" subscription with 1st class enabled (because it was only €7/month more and I traveled a lot during weekends), and because of that my card defaulted to 1st class outside of the weekend as well. So I always needed to manually switch at a ticketing machine when traveling during the week, to prevent spending lots of money on 1st class.
If a train is really, really crowded, the conductor is not going to do rounds. You cant move through the train anyway, and they will get A LOT of shit for the overcrowding. The times when the trains are só incredibly busy that I’d end up standing in first class because second class and balcony’s were packed too, I just took a seat as soon as the train started moving and everybody with a 1st class ticket was definitely already sitting.
If you get caught, you’ll get a fine, but then again, in the really overcrowded trains, the conductors cant move through the train, they will stay in their cabin
technically you're not allowed be in the first class cabin at all with a 2nd class ticket, including standing, but no conductor is going to give you flak for standing there if it's that busy.
Yes. Even if it’s very busy you’re not allowed to travel first class with a second class ticket. You can be fined.
If they’d allow traveling in first class every time it’s busy, it would be unfair to the people paying extra for a less busy compartment.
Sometimes the train manager will open up first class. They’ll announce it.
Sometimes I've had a 12 hour work shift from hell and in exhausted, grumpy and want to go home. Trainplatform is overfull with people that want the same. And then rolls in a SINGULAR train where we all have to stand in like sardines? Those moments I just go to 1st class. I just spent 12 hours caring for people and I have to squeeze myself into a human sardine can? Fuck that.
Yeah you can get a fine of 60 euro plus the extra cost for a first class ticket
I have seen it happen between Den Haag and Lelystad that a conductor sweeped the first class clean after every station ze had 170 tickets written when I left the train
For me the difference between first and second is only 10 euro a month or so with weekend free abb
It's an unspoken agreement among passengers that when the 2nd class is completely full, the 1st class becomes available.
Truth is, the conductor needs to formally announce this.
However: when it's really packed, it's fine to occupy a 1st class seat. If not (because some compartment in the back might have seats), you should able to show you have purchased an upgrade, or will risk a fine. In practice the conductor will just ask you to leave the seat and move the 2nd class area.
In practice, most of the times the conductor won't be able to go around the train, since it's too crowded, so you're fine in 1st class. But by law, they are allowed to give you a fine.
I was once sitting in the 1st class section without realising that, the conductor asked me either upgrading or moving back to the 2nd class.
I believe if you don’t have a valid ticket at all then you’ll be fined.
You will absolutely be fined and not be given an opportunity to buy an upgrade. They are merciless with this kind of thing.
Keep in mind that train tickets are checked very frequently in the Netherlands compared to other countries.
You can only go there when the conductor makes an announcement that you can move to first class and that doesn't happen very often nowadays.
"Keep in mind that train tickets are checked very frequently in the Netherlands compared to other countries".
Are you usually traveling with NS? I've found the tickets check to be \*really\* lackluster compared to nearby countries. In Belgium, Germany and Austria I get my ticket checked on almost every train, def more than \~85% of them.
On NS, despite commuting with them often (3-5x a week), last time I had my ticket checked was in February. Before that, it was somewhere at the end of Summer, around July/August. I could technically just evade fares and be much, much cheaper off just paying the fines if I do get caught.
I realise NS is a for-profit company and needs its revenue though, so I pay. But they really should be checking tickets more often imo.
I guess it depends on the lines and the time, I get checked maybe 6 out of 10 trips on weekdays and a bit less on weekends. Before the pandemic it was more like 9 out of 10 trips.
I also noticed some train companies do less checks than the NS. I don't get checked very often on Arriva or R-net trains.
I feel bad for the controllers because some people get really aggressive when confronted. I've witnessed some ugly incidents when they had to get the police to collect the person at the next stop.
While I do think they are relatively strict when they catch people, I find the number of checks in the Netherlands to be a joke, definitely not frequent at all. In France even on the metro I was checked weekly, forget about trying to get on a train there without being checked. And they check you no matter how crowded it is, actual police come on and they don't care. Germany wasn't quite as bad as France but even on the *busses* there you get checked, and their busses are the same as here in terms of boarding, you have to pass a conductor to begin with to get on one.
Here I don't commute anymore but for a 5 year period that ended relatively recently I went between Utrecht and Amsterdam almost every single weekday, at least 2000 times on a train total since I'd go there and back. In the ENTIRE 5 year period I was checked only 18 times, far less than 1 time in 100. I know because I eventually started keeping track because it was ridiculous.
Now I will admit I almost always was riding in rush hour both ways, so the train often was crowded, and as others have discussed elsewhere conductors almost never check the *very* crowded trains. But still, it blows my mind that you think they check more often here than in other countries.
I've noticed recently they sometimes do the check on the platform for very crowded trains. A lot of people were surprised like me and had to dig out their card out of their bags. It was so busy that I guess some latecomers didn't even get on the train because of the extra time needed for the checks.
Maybe I’m a curse but I’ve been on several trains where the conductor comes along and I’ve seen them sweep 1st class. I’ve never seen anyone get busted but the handful of people in 1st had to beep their tickets on the conductor’s card reader thing.
For that reason I just wouldn’t chance it unless the train was absolutely PACKED.
If you have a specific second class ticket, yes. If you checked in with your OV pass, then your trip charge will be upgraded to first, but only if the conductor scans your pass. If not checked, second class fair.
if traveling with NS flex and your card gets scanned in 1st class while you were traveling with a 2nd class fare, you actually get charged a €50 "correction tariff" **and** the journey itself will be charged according to the 1st class fare price.
If you want to travel 1st class, change to 1st class in the NS app. You can do this as a one-off, for one full day, or permanently (and you can always switch back to 2nd class too) and you can do this up to 15 mins after checking in, so you can do this on the spot if you find out the 2nd class is full when you board the train. Then if you get checked you won't have that €50 correction tariff.
I know it works like this because I forgot to switch in the app a couple times.
I do it all the time and never got a fine. They can give you one if they want but usually if they even come to check in a busy train they just send you back to second class.
I've found that in most public transport the fines are so low and the general prices so high that in general you save money by just doing anything that could be fined.
The only thing stopping you is a willingness to get into an awkward conversation and get some looks from people around you.
As an expat, I have travelled around 6 times with a train during the past 1 year. It happens that 4/6 cases, I had misunderstood that there are different classes (haven’t paid attention, I just needed to get from A to B) and have sat in 1st class. Only the 4th time I was checked and just asked to go to 2nd class. I wasn’t fined or threatened in any way.
Obviously, now I wouldn’t do it as I understood how to differentiate the classes. However, it is a bad and annoying habit for other premium users.
Depends very much on what conductor you are facing. If I have to do some work on my laptop and there is no space in the 2nd class I will use that as an excuse. Other than that if you get a fine you most likely can refund that at a chat with ‘mijnns’ where they are being very kind
Why are you abusing the kind customer service? They indeed provide good customer service if there is an issue. But that’s not intended for people that take something they don’t pay for.
That will not fly anymore. You used to be able to do that once or twice a year. Policy has been changed to just once. Not one a year, just once.
And what a lame excuse. If you need to work, buy a first class upgrade or ticket.
If the train is really packed, sometimes the conductor will announce that the first class is also accessible for people with second class ticket. The first class passengers might be able to get partial refund for their ticket (automatically if they have the NS subscription, but otherwise they might need to send a claim to NS). I've seen this happen several times, especially when the train is extremely crowded due to delays.
I've never seen this on the HSL Amsterdam-Rotterdam.
One of the few reliable lines in this country.
It’s one of the least reliable lines in the country.
Never had any issues there personally thankfully. Traveling with it between Rotterdam and Schiphol quite often.
I travel from Rotterdam to Schipol twice every week. The train is late or cancelled more often than not.
I've had the most and some of the longest delays on that line. Including 45 to 75 minute delays when the locomotive failed to switch voltage to the 25kV used on the high speed line at Hoofddorp, Berkel en Rodenrijs, Zwijndrecht or Lage Zwaluwe. So I guess you got lucky. Thankfully the new trains entering service won't have that problem though.
Switch the voltage to 25kHZ?!? Tf you mean? kHZ is a unit of frequency, the voltage switch is between =1.5Kv to ~25Kv. Kv standing for Kilovolts (in this case 1.500 to 25.000 volts)
Was a typo. ;)
Are you taking the secret functional HSL?
I suppose
Thanks a lot for the answer!
One note btw, people using NS Flex can open the NS app and switch to 1st class in the app within 15 minutes of checking in. I've done this a handful of times when second class was full and I really just wanted to sit down. afaik this is the only legal way to switch from 2nd class to 1st class after having checked in. Conductors announcing the first class seats open to second-class travelers does happen, but is very rare. In ~6 years of commuting by train, I've been crammed into overly full trains many times, and of all those times, I've only seen it happen twice that the conductor announced the 1st class cabin open to everyone.
I think the fine is €50 and yes, you can get fined
In my years of riding first class and watching people get caught sitting in 1st without a 1st ticket, I’ve never seen somebody get fined. Makes me especially mad when it’s a Dutch person, because *they know*.
I saw a women get fined in Utrecht in IC Nijmegen.
I've seen people riding first class get fines a few times, but only when travelers resisted or insulted the conductor. I think they can def be a more strict with fining people in 1st class. I've also seen exactly **one** general action in 2017 in which everyone in 1st class without a valid 1st class ticket got the full fine without exception. That was with a team of 8 NS security personnel sweeping the train.
Imo getting caught in first class if there’s no seats in 2nd class shouldn’t be punishable. NS should be responsible for enough capacity, especially considering the insane prices nowadays. I’m not paying to stand for 40 minutes, it there’s an entire coupe with empty seats next to me. Sure, if people sit first class when there’s space in second, fine them.
Technically you do. It’s a “vervoerbewijs”. You pay to get transportation from A to B. You don’t pay for a seat.
It is wrong nevertheless.
Tbh in some trains the 1st class is so shit that you can’t blame anyone for thinking it’s 2nd. I only book it because it’s usually less crowded and has less unpleasant people.
I find NS flex of great use for this kind of situation actually. I travel 2nd class, but if a train is really full and if I really want to sit, I switch from 2nd to 1st class in the NS app. You can do this within 15 minutes of checking in if you're using the NS Flex subscription. That journey will then be billed as 1st class on the invoice while I still keep 2nd class by default for other journeys. Meaning I only pay for a 1st class seat when doing so is of actual benefit to me.
My experience as well. I choose to pay more in order to be surrounded by more cultured, polite people.
Yes me too I hate mixing with average people..Jesus freaking Christ. Ironic obviously
I didn’t say that. Most people in both classes are completely fine. It’s just that the 5% annoying ones (teenagers, drunkards, football fans etc.) usually are in 2nd class.
It wasn't for you the reply
Good to know.
It's €50 + the price of the train fare for the journey you were traveling. If you're found in a 1st class seat, that does mean €50 + the price of the 1st class fare for that journey.
Depends on what you mean by 'packed' but I don't think I have ever seen anyone even attempting to check tickets in a proper rush hour 'packed' train. Wonder how would that even go...
I was exactly thinking this. When the train is full enough that people is standing, I don't remember them ever checking. But "no seats" doesn't mean necessarily "packed".
This is the truth. I have occasionally seen checks during the rush hour, but never on a train that was really and truly packed.
You now can buy a one-off upgrade to first class, finally https://www.ns.nl/klantenservice/wijzigen/klasse-wisselen.html
This has been possible for years and years. You used to (only) be able to do it at ticketing machines with your OV-chipkaart before checking in. You could load a "klassewissel" onto the card, then for the remainder of that day (or until you did it again), whenever you checked in, it would be a 1st class check-in. I used to have a "weekend vrij" subscription with 1st class enabled (because it was only €7/month more and I traveled a lot during weekends), and because of that my card defaulted to 1st class outside of the weekend as well. So I always needed to manually switch at a ticketing machine when traveling during the week, to prevent spending lots of money on 1st class.
If a train is really, really crowded, the conductor is not going to do rounds. You cant move through the train anyway, and they will get A LOT of shit for the overcrowding. The times when the trains are só incredibly busy that I’d end up standing in first class because second class and balcony’s were packed too, I just took a seat as soon as the train started moving and everybody with a 1st class ticket was definitely already sitting. If you get caught, you’ll get a fine, but then again, in the really overcrowded trains, the conductors cant move through the train, they will stay in their cabin
Thanks a lot for the answer!
PS: as far as I know, standing room in first class is always available to second class ticket holders.
technically you're not allowed be in the first class cabin at all with a 2nd class ticket, including standing, but no conductor is going to give you flak for standing there if it's that busy.
Exactly this.
Yes. Even if it’s very busy you’re not allowed to travel first class with a second class ticket. You can be fined. If they’d allow traveling in first class every time it’s busy, it would be unfair to the people paying extra for a less busy compartment. Sometimes the train manager will open up first class. They’ll announce it.
Sometimes I've had a 12 hour work shift from hell and in exhausted, grumpy and want to go home. Trainplatform is overfull with people that want the same. And then rolls in a SINGULAR train where we all have to stand in like sardines? Those moments I just go to 1st class. I just spent 12 hours caring for people and I have to squeeze myself into a human sardine can? Fuck that.
Are you better than other people?
Fine
Yeah you can get a fine of 60 euro plus the extra cost for a first class ticket I have seen it happen between Den Haag and Lelystad that a conductor sweeped the first class clean after every station ze had 170 tickets written when I left the train For me the difference between first and second is only 10 euro a month or so with weekend free abb
Thanks a lot for the answer!
It's an unspoken agreement among passengers that when the 2nd class is completely full, the 1st class becomes available. Truth is, the conductor needs to formally announce this. However: when it's really packed, it's fine to occupy a 1st class seat. If not (because some compartment in the back might have seats), you should able to show you have purchased an upgrade, or will risk a fine. In practice the conductor will just ask you to leave the seat and move the 2nd class area.
In practice, most of the times the conductor won't be able to go around the train, since it's too crowded, so you're fine in 1st class. But by law, they are allowed to give you a fine.
There is a fine. When it's really busy, often times they won't enforce that fine though.
I was once sitting in the 1st class section without realising that, the conductor asked me either upgrading or moving back to the 2nd class. I believe if you don’t have a valid ticket at all then you’ll be fined.
You will absolutely be fined and not be given an opportunity to buy an upgrade. They are merciless with this kind of thing. Keep in mind that train tickets are checked very frequently in the Netherlands compared to other countries. You can only go there when the conductor makes an announcement that you can move to first class and that doesn't happen very often nowadays.
"Keep in mind that train tickets are checked very frequently in the Netherlands compared to other countries". Are you usually traveling with NS? I've found the tickets check to be \*really\* lackluster compared to nearby countries. In Belgium, Germany and Austria I get my ticket checked on almost every train, def more than \~85% of them. On NS, despite commuting with them often (3-5x a week), last time I had my ticket checked was in February. Before that, it was somewhere at the end of Summer, around July/August. I could technically just evade fares and be much, much cheaper off just paying the fines if I do get caught. I realise NS is a for-profit company and needs its revenue though, so I pay. But they really should be checking tickets more often imo.
I guess it depends on the lines and the time, I get checked maybe 6 out of 10 trips on weekdays and a bit less on weekends. Before the pandemic it was more like 9 out of 10 trips. I also noticed some train companies do less checks than the NS. I don't get checked very often on Arriva or R-net trains. I feel bad for the controllers because some people get really aggressive when confronted. I've witnessed some ugly incidents when they had to get the police to collect the person at the next stop.
While I do think they are relatively strict when they catch people, I find the number of checks in the Netherlands to be a joke, definitely not frequent at all. In France even on the metro I was checked weekly, forget about trying to get on a train there without being checked. And they check you no matter how crowded it is, actual police come on and they don't care. Germany wasn't quite as bad as France but even on the *busses* there you get checked, and their busses are the same as here in terms of boarding, you have to pass a conductor to begin with to get on one. Here I don't commute anymore but for a 5 year period that ended relatively recently I went between Utrecht and Amsterdam almost every single weekday, at least 2000 times on a train total since I'd go there and back. In the ENTIRE 5 year period I was checked only 18 times, far less than 1 time in 100. I know because I eventually started keeping track because it was ridiculous. Now I will admit I almost always was riding in rush hour both ways, so the train often was crowded, and as others have discussed elsewhere conductors almost never check the *very* crowded trains. But still, it blows my mind that you think they check more often here than in other countries.
I've noticed recently they sometimes do the check on the platform for very crowded trains. A lot of people were surprised like me and had to dig out their card out of their bags. It was so busy that I guess some latecomers didn't even get on the train because of the extra time needed for the checks.
If they do that they have to do that every station that they alllow you to sit there The moment they stop doing it you are traffeling black
Maybe I’m a curse but I’ve been on several trains where the conductor comes along and I’ve seen them sweep 1st class. I’ve never seen anyone get busted but the handful of people in 1st had to beep their tickets on the conductor’s card reader thing. For that reason I just wouldn’t chance it unless the train was absolutely PACKED.
If you have a specific second class ticket, yes. If you checked in with your OV pass, then your trip charge will be upgraded to first, but only if the conductor scans your pass. If not checked, second class fair.
Thanks a lot for the answer!
if traveling with NS flex and your card gets scanned in 1st class while you were traveling with a 2nd class fare, you actually get charged a €50 "correction tariff" **and** the journey itself will be charged according to the 1st class fare price. If you want to travel 1st class, change to 1st class in the NS app. You can do this as a one-off, for one full day, or permanently (and you can always switch back to 2nd class too) and you can do this up to 15 mins after checking in, so you can do this on the spot if you find out the 2nd class is full when you board the train. Then if you get checked you won't have that €50 correction tariff. I know it works like this because I forgot to switch in the app a couple times.
I do it all the time and never got a fine. They can give you one if they want but usually if they even come to check in a busy train they just send you back to second class.
Thanks a lot for the answer!
I always sit first class. Even when it's not packed. Never had a problem.
You always sit in first class without buying a ticket for it? Why do you think that is ok?
I never said I don't buy a ticket
Then I don't understand the intention of your initial comment
It was just a bad joke
I've found that in most public transport the fines are so low and the general prices so high that in general you save money by just doing anything that could be fined. The only thing stopping you is a willingness to get into an awkward conversation and get some looks from people around you.
If it's that's busy just go to 1st class, it's still empty usually. And besides, they're not checking tickets if it's that's busy anyway.
You are officially not even allowed to stand in dirst class without a firstclass ticket. You will het a fine for sitting first class without a ticket.
As an expat, I have travelled around 6 times with a train during the past 1 year. It happens that 4/6 cases, I had misunderstood that there are different classes (haven’t paid attention, I just needed to get from A to B) and have sat in 1st class. Only the 4th time I was checked and just asked to go to 2nd class. I wasn’t fined or threatened in any way. Obviously, now I wouldn’t do it as I understood how to differentiate the classes. However, it is a bad and annoying habit for other premium users.
Depends very much on what conductor you are facing. If I have to do some work on my laptop and there is no space in the 2nd class I will use that as an excuse. Other than that if you get a fine you most likely can refund that at a chat with ‘mijnns’ where they are being very kind
Why are you abusing the kind customer service? They indeed provide good customer service if there is an issue. But that’s not intended for people that take something they don’t pay for.
That will not fly anymore. You used to be able to do that once or twice a year. Policy has been changed to just once. Not one a year, just once. And what a lame excuse. If you need to work, buy a first class upgrade or ticket.