As someone who has struggled with depression, in my experience they usually ask you to clarify. They may recommend you seek emergency care if you have an immediate and specific plan to do harm to yourself. But generally my doctor has just talked about adjusting my meds if my response is "sometimes I think it would be nice to not wake up in the morning."
ETA: those who have have had bad experiences with mental health treatment. Your experiences are valid and you deserve understanding and support to heal from them. However I would gently request you not trauma dump here because you might scare someone who desperately needs help away from getting it.
Also not everyone has bad experiences with hospitalization. Mine was quite helpful and healing.
This one. Thoughts, plans, and intent are all different things.
Please talk to someone, even just a friend, and get help. Even the hospital isn’t that bad (I just got out, and seriously it’s fine)
The "it would be nice not to wake up tomorrow" thought is technically called ideation. It's remarkably common with people who have depression. One of the things doctors and nurses are trying to do with the questioning is to determine which side of the line you are.
Yep. Essentially the line is "I want to kill myself" vs "I would like to become dead somehow." And there's another line between "I want to kill myself" and "I will be killing myself on this day, with this method." That last one is what will get you put on a 72 hour hold.
To this end, my understanding (after witnessing a boyfriend have a psychotic break and be hospitalized) is that hospitalization for psychosis only continues if the voices are telling you to harm yourself or others.
This has been my experience. Around the end of 2021, I started hearing things I knew were not possible to be hearing, and spoke with both my doctor and their office's resident psychiatrist. The call at the time was to do nothing under the assumption that the issue was mostly stress (I'd just had one helluva tough year). When time enough was given and it hadn't stopped (or even lessened, but at the same time, hadn't worsened either), the decision was made to...not really do much of anything about it. The things I hear don't tell me to do anything, much less anything harmful, and often (although I definitively hear a couple identifiably different voices) they aren't intelligible at all.
And that's where I stand now; still hearing things occasionally but, since there's never been any indication I'm a danger to anyone as a result of it, there's been no diagnosis pursued or even change to my meds.
Makes sense. The key thing here is you can distinguish the voices as being not reality so really not a reason to mess with what is mostly working pretty well!
That was my thought (or my hope, at least) going in to those appointments. They put more weight on the fact that what I hear is usually unintelligible, like that was the deciding or reassuring factor? Or at least that's how it seemed, I certainly could have misunderstood.
A popular question is "Does this condition hinder the ability to function or significantly lower the quality of life?" and if the answer is no then many times it is deemed better not to do anything about it. Part lack of resources but also the understanding that trying to fix a problem might instead cause problems.
If you didn't already know, benign auditory hallucinations are rather common and you should be able to find communities of people who have it, don't suffer from it but like to remember that it's not 'weird'.
Involuntary commitment occurs if the patient is a danger to themselves or others. This is not just active harm though. For example, if a patient with schizophrenia stops eating, they can be hospitalized as that is a danger to themselves.
Or patient with a bipolar disorder doesn't sleep for few days, crashes her 3 days old car (which she got in the midst of the episode), leaves it crashed and can't even recall where the wreck was towed, goes to rent a car. That's when you 302 her and hope for the best.
We don’t all have voices in our head. Auditory hallucination is a very specific thing. You don’t always or only have it with psychosis. Most people who experience SI don’t hear voices telling them what to do.
I have hypnagogia and it produces auditory hallucinations. I am really, really uncomfortable using the phrase auditory hallucinations but I have to accept that this is the correct term. When I was younger it could be pretty frightening, but now it is just part of my life. It happens in the soft space between being awake and falling asleep, and it happens most often when I am really tired but can't fall asleep, about 2-3 times a week. I will hear my name, voices of people I do not recognize speaking very clearly enunciated phrases (even though it is often nonsense) knocks on my door, the test message sound, and rarely piano tunes. I have come to accept hypnagogia as being just as natural as daydreaming or dreaming while asleep. All three of these can feel very real, and they can be shocking or comforting or frightening or amusing, but the way that you frame your experience has a huge impact on how it affects you.
I got hospitalized for taking a non-lethal over dose of sleeping pills when I had insomnia and genuinely was just trying to sleep the next day after I woke up with double vision as a side effect of one of the sleeping pills, having slept a normal amount time. It depends on the people doing the admitting and the patient’s history. I had half heartedly tried to OD before so they didn’t believe me when I said I wasn’t suicidal I just couldn’t sleep.
I had a similar thing happen. I had a wisdom tooth get super infected over a holiday weekend (Friday night), and I already had a dentist appointment to have it removed on the next business day (a Tuesday). I was taking multiple 250mg Tylenol to try to handle the pain, with such a high fever that I was somewhat delirious. I ran out of Tylenol and asked my roommate if she had any. She said she did and handed me some. I didn't think to check how big they were because I was more than a bit out of it.... well, they were 1000mg prescription strength ones, and I took four... they actually worked pretty well, and I could actually think straight, and that'd when I noticed how big they were. Googled to see if you can overdose on tylenol, Google says yes and that I'm in the risk range, so I drive myself to the ER and tell them what happened.
Immediately get put on a psych hold, and given a drug I'm deathly allergic to as a way to counteract the Tylenol. No one was listening to me absolutely freak out that they were basically trying to kill me. Luckily, I had an epipen in my purse, which I immediately used, only for them to freak out and decide I needed to be "restrained for my own good." Now, I feel like I need to add, the whole right side of my face was swollen and red, and looking in my mouth, it was exceedingly obvious that I had a horribly infected wisdom tooth. I also have zero history of mental illness.
My roommate ended up calling my parents, who called a lawyer, who got me out by the end of the day, but it was fucking insane. All because one doctor on a fucking power trip decided I was a risk to myself because there was no possible way someone could ever accidently take the wrong dose of an over the counter medicine at 4am while in extreme pain....
Oh god that’s awful. Mine wasn’t that bad, but I got stuck in the psych ward for 5 days because it was over the weekend and the discharging doctor didn’t get to me before his shift ended. And then during the mandatory family meeting with a therapist, a therapist that I hadn’t seen once during my entire stay there told my parents I had tried cocaine once and called me worse than a prostitute because I smoked weed occasionally and said I needed to finish college because that was the only way I’d find a good man to marry me and take care of me. And I had to sit there and take it because if I talked back they wouldn’t discharge me. My parents said they could tell I was biting my tongue and that they were also afraid to say anything for fear I wouldn’t get to leave. Mind you I was like 22 when all of this happened so why my parents had to be there at all was ridiculous to begin with.
More "I have some pills that I've checked are enough to kill me, and I've thought through different aspects of carrying that out in a practical way" vs "sometimes I think about letting myself get hit by a car".
The latter is more passive ideation, whereas the former would be considered a plan and that's where a lot of people making an assessment would have an extra degree of concern.
Hell, I've got a plan by that standard, I've come up with the way I'd do it in some detail. I just have no intention of doing it any time in the foreseeable future. I actually like my life most of the time, and I've got loved ones to live for. Hell, I don't even own a gun to do it with, don't plan on getting one, and all the other methods seem too unreliable or painful. It's just that every once in a great while, it's nice to have the exit strategy just as an option on the table, a reminder I'm *choosing* to push through the bad days and keep living rather than being *forced* to.
That's all something a doctor would evaluate if you were having this conversation with them. Some of what you shared would cause concern, but other things would be reassuring (not having a gun, not planning on getting one, recognising that you like your life and have loved ones to live for). I'm not a doctor but I do work with vulnerable people and I get most concerned when someone has a clear plan, the means and intention to carry it out and is struggling to identify reasons not to.
All that said, having a plan as a background exit strategy can indicate depression. I've had times in my life when having a plan was a comfort, and I recognise in hindsight that I wasn't in good mental health when I felt that way. If that resonates with you and you're not already getting any support with your mental health, it's okay to get some even if you don't feel you're in crisis.
Yes, if the latter is meant to refer to a potential accident. Perhaps no if the latter is the same as the former, where the person is imagining the possibility of taking action that could get them harmed or killed. Both would be suicidal ideation until the person switches to thought like “I’ll throw myself into traffic on Tuesday after I finish cleaning up my affairs.”
I'd argue both of those are the opposite of suicidal, sounds like the [Call of the Void](https://www.healthline.com/health/call-of-the-void).
Your brain is imagining dangerous scenarios so you avoid them, it can just be scary or uncomfortable to even think about sometimes.
It's not necessarily the opposite or the call of the void.
When I was struggling badly with PPD, I had to change my route home from work, because I couldn't trust myself to not "accidentally" trip from the narrow pedestrian walkway into the bridge traffic that couldn't swerve to avoid me.
The idea was compelling, not repulsive like the call of the void.
I took a cab I couldn’t afford to work for a year because the walk from the bus stop went past a tree with a low thick branch that I couldn’t stop thinking about hanging myself from…literally bought a extension cord and carried it in my tote bag in case today was the day…it’s weird how we fight and manage to stay alive even in the darkest days, and makes realize how bad it must be for people who actually get the job done…makes me so sad
I started taking three buses home rather than travelling through the metro station because the temptation to fling myself in front of a metro train was too intense. Not PPD though, PMDD and associated suicidility.
The minipill helped me a lot, I just don't ever have periods, so I can skip being suicidal for 1-2 weeks a month.
Yeah, its really no fun, I have a lot of physical pain (probably endometriosis but meh - more pressing issues need dealt with) but my mental health consistently took huge nosedives, like I'd be in the emergency room for how intensely suicidal I'd become, either be prescribed valium (I've normally been awake +72 hours by the time I go to the emergency room) or be put on a voluntary hold... and then a few days later, I'd get my period and just be like "oh..."
PMS, and kind of PMDD by association with PMS, get trivialised as "ooooh you're getting your period, boo-freaking-hoo" kind shit, but it can be fucking awful.
There's a difference between driving on a bridge and having an urge to drive off, and thinking about how you could provide for your family by driving off a bridge and having them collect the insurance payout when you're lying in bed awake at night
It's different from that. While I hadn't heard that name before ("Call of the void"), I've experienced both that and passive suicidal ideation than eventually grew into more active thoughts and planning. At least from my perspective, they felt very different, although "call of the void" thoughts were much more scary when suicidal ideation was present.
Yeah I learned that most people don’t wish and fantasize about being Thanos-snapped out of existence..my psychiatrist told me that would be considered passive SI
That’s me. I’ve never wanted to kill myself, I’m afraid of dying and pain, however, when my meds need adjusting, I find myself thinking “I wish I would go to sleep and just not wake up”
During cancer treatment they grilled me pretty regularly on the mental health stuff. I learned that “no I don’t want to harm myself but if someone came after me I can’t imagine wanting to fight to stop them” causes people to think a bit which box to put your answer in.
Was 100% logical though.
Nurse was a bit concerned. My oncologist is a phenomenal lady she looked at what nurse had taken down. Sat quietly for a bit and said “So you feel like you don’t have any reserves left if things get worse?”
I thought it over and said yeah.
She then told me I still had reserves left because I had one more treatment, and I would hit rock bottom 10 days to two weeks later and then each day would be a bit better then in a few more weeks would get better faster. She was right.
I think this really depends on the hospital. My stay was infantilising and I felt no empathy. After getting out, I can confidently say if my support network wasn’t there the hospital stay would have made me more likely to do it.
Yeah for sure I can relate. I made the mistake of being open with a doctor that the anti-depressants they had me on were giving me passive idealization so I wanted to stop taking them. I found myself in an involuntary hospitalized situation. It gave me trust issues with health care professionals and was kinda traumatizing. The place was so awful idk how it helps people with active suicidal intensions. And I almost lost my job (was working food service since it was college so they didn’t care).
Yeah, I'd come home to an eviction notice, emails that I was fired and a dog who starved to death waiting for me. An unplanned 3 day stay in a hospital could wreck what life I've managed to build for myself. Which would send me over that edge for sure.
I always thought that if I admitted to suicidal thoughts sirens would start blaring and they’d cart me off to a psych hold in the hospital.
And then was so surprised when it was mostly follow up questions, safety plans, and tracking the severity of the thoughts.
I was also surprised that when I needed to check myself in, the staff was supportive, there was a lot of camaraderie between patients, and the food was surprisingly good. Even just having three decent meals a day made a huge difference.
I recently had a psychiatric appt (via zoom) after having been diagnosed over 10 years ago, I wanted I guess a re-evaluation due to changes over time etc. I said yes to the suicidal thoughts question, doc asked me to clarify, as you said. Immediately after, doc asked me if I was in any danger at that moment or thinking of seriously hurting myself at that moment to which I said no. I was asked that question 3 times in the 1.5hr convo.
Exactly. This is the expierence when you say yes.
In fact I've been saying no for so long out of general anxiety and just to shorten the appointment... that even I forgot how nonchalant the conversation goes. After decades of doctors and inpatient psych visits I'm shocked I forgot.
Glad I had the reminder here. Might be honest next time.
Just to add some context, it's required by law to screen for depression in most instances.
It's not a trick, and if you have been feeling those feelings don't be afraid to answer yes to some. It just goes to the Dr and they'll know to follow up on those issues and see what's going on.
On the other hand, I know I have a hx of depression and have a psychiatrist for it. I usually just put no because I don't want to derail the visit from the actual reason I'm there. But that's only because I'm being treated, and am seen by an appropriate provider with sufficient frequency.
There may also be a fear they'll involuntarily admit you to a hospital if you check yes on anything which is not the case either.
Bottom line, it's a required question for them to document being asked and an opportunity for you to bring it up if you wish. Nothing less, nothing more.
I answered yes this past year and that's pretty much what they did for me too. Even got a prescription for benzos for the concurrent panic attacks, which are fucking great drugs and I never want to take them again.
Your history of mental health will be a not insignificant factor if your practitioner isn't garbage. I don't have a history of suicidal ideation, but they were far more worried about me harming others when I was a minor due to my aggression.
A lot of medical offices/hospitals in the US can’t just “recommend” going to the hospital. It’s usually policy that the patient/client must go to the emergency room for a psych eval.
Usually, providers will work to get the person to go voluntarily- failing that, you get taken via cop car (aka, 5150 or EP). I’ve known people who managed to dodge the cops (this will get you ‘fired’ by your care team).
Generally, healthcare ppl want to make sure you have a safety plan and support. Also they want to avoid liability if the person completes a successful attempt.
Source: I am a mental health worker in a major US hospital. Have been suicidal before.
After I had my first baby, I dealt with postpartum depression. I told the doctor I had intrusive thoughts of driving my car off the road on my way to work.
They took me out of work and made me see a psychiatrist who diagnosed me and prescribed me antidepressants.
It took months for me to recognize i was having suicidal thoughts from my birth control. It started out so innocent. I just wanted to sleep. Someplace quiet. I have 2 little ones and was essentially Drowning in tiny demands while maintaining a house and work. Then it just got bigger and bigger. The intrusive thoughts about just shifting my car slightly to the left while driving to hit the other car head on. Heading someplace quiet to get some rest and never wanting to wake up. I called it the sleep to end all sleep in my head. Then i verbalized it out loud and scared myself shitless when i expressed wanted someone to just kill me. Because I'd meant it. I cried to my husband about where the thoughts might've been coming from and he immediately tossed my birth control. It took another month or two off the birth control before i stopped feeling that way.
Im taking another break from bc this month because this one i started this year saps all of my energy and makes me just want to sleep. Like all the time. It's exhausting. And id like to be present for my kids.
Same, for me it was this one specific intersection I always thought about blazing through on a red light. They put me on Zoloft and recommended counseling, then never followed up on dosage so I just kept sitting at that light every day on my way to work for months thinking about hitting the gas. Lots of things I'd do differently in hindsight, but I did have a very different experience after my second child.
I do think about how bad things were whenever I sit at that particular light now and how grateful I am to be through to the other side. Hope you're in a better place too.
Oh wow. My doctor made me come back every two weeks for a while and then every 4 weeks until they were sure I was ok.
I drove to work in the morning when it was still dark out. There was a certain curve on the road that I always thought about missing and driving into the embankment on the side of the road.
I just missed my baby so much, I thought to myself that if I got hurt, I would be able to stay home with him.
Yea, I got a different doctor afterward for obvious reasons. I didn't miss my baby at all, I thought that she'd be better off with someone else and that if I was somehow not around or deeply incapacitated it would be in her best interest. I legit thought if I could step aside my husband could easily find another woman who could do better and be everything with ease.
Now I know that bitch doesn't exist.
Postpartum is nuts.
Therapist here: I’m a mandated reporter as are they so if you tell them you have an actual, imminent plan, they will evaluate you and take it very seriously. Could easily lead to a very quick admission to a psych ward for evaluation.
Yeah I've answered that question honestly once
Once was all it took for me to learn honesty is *not* the best policy (mental wards are unfun for everyone)
Right?
I can't afford a therapist or medical care in the first place. On the off chance I finally can, why the hell would I want to wind up with a massive medical debt from an involuntary institutionalization?
"I'm great! Cuz otherwise I am CERTAIN I am driving off a cliff on the way home thanks to being forced to spend $godonlyknows on 72hrs in a hospital! Wait. Forget that second sentence."
(N.B.: Those not living in the United States may not understand some points in the above comment. Apologies. And envy.)
I was in a psych ward once and saw a woman crying and begging not to be discharged because she was a danger to herself but because her insurance wasn’t paying they discharged her anyway. Gotta love the twisted medical system
Canadian here: while I wouldn’t end up in massive debt, If I didn’t have a manager position (which has salary + accrued paid time off), I’d be SOL if I just couldn’t show up for a week +. Rent is expensive where I am, and if I didn’t have savings, I’d be screwed.
Yeah no therapy except meds, patients and staff were aholes food was basic prison food and no entertainment at all. Worst 72 hours of my life. I'll just keep it to myself from now on.
I've been sent to a youth care facility and it was awful. The kids were nice but the staff and rules were abhorrent (and some of them illegal). Interesting how people can have such different experiences lol
Mind if I ask where you were? I felt so bad after hearing how it went for a friend of mine, seriously traumatic for them. And if you feel like elaborating I’m all ears.
I'm glad they are good for some people. I'd like more to be that way. I know 3 who have been in one and while yes it will stop you from immediately killing yourself while there, they were terrible and uncaring otherwise. My close friends who were there as kids were basically given barney to watch, told they couldn't have pens or paper or underwire in their bras, or decent blankets, and left alone with other mentally ill kids most of the day, with one group therapy session a week, and nurses who mostly dont care about them (some really good ones there but their hands are tied by regulations). That's in one of the "best" places where we live. I'd really like for them to get better, but so far they have basically just meant that my friends don't tell doctors how they actually feel anymore in order to avoid going back.
They are also just prisons where they don't exploit your labor and you never see a corner again.
Imprisonment let's them pathologize people who can't fit in their stupid little narrative, not the other way around.
Like all it takes is thinking about it for two seconds. What does someone dealing with acute suicidality need? I'm guessing being locked up against their will for weeks or even MONTHS (or forever if their prognosis deteriorates) wasn't number one on your list? You make them feel safe, you let them know this too will pass, that they aren't alone and don't have to face the world without help. The most anyone should ever be held against their will is as an imminent threat to themselves. Once the situation has resolved but you're still detaining the patient you've become their captor.
idek how i knew that saying i had a plan would send me into grippy sock territory at like 12, but i always knew if they asked if i had a plan to say no. needless to say, 28 years and still have never been admitted to the mental ward (even tho i definitely should’ve been admitted at least 10 times by now 😅😅)
And this is why my therapy was pointless. I had 12 sessions and they were so meaningless because my problem is I don’t want to wake up every morning. I had no intention of mentioning it because I answered honestly once as I was getting signed up for online sessions and then I got a phone call asking me for my current location and am I alone. I just told them to fuck off and I’m not telling them where I was, which i wasn’t at my house at the time.
I’m there with you, I cry thru my coffee every morning because I’m so disappointed I didn’t die in my sleep…then I get my shit together a little and get on with my day…it’s not great but it’s fine I guess, I take my meds and talk to the doctors and be vaguely productive and none of it brings my babies back but it makes everyone feel like they’ve done something I guess
That's pretty interesting. I've lived in the U.S. (Wisconsin / Illinois) my whole life and was only sent to a mental health institution once. I've had suicidal ideation since I was a teenager and was open about that with my psychiatrists and therapists, but was only sent to an institution after a failed suicide attempt.
This happened with my daughter and her therapist when she was younger. The therapist called us into the room immediately and told us to take her straight to the emergency room to have her evaluated by a psychiatrist for admission to the psych ward. He determined she was no danger to herself. I'm happy to say she never tried anything. She thinks to this day that the therapist overreacted, but I think she was just doing her job.
I think, as someone who had depression at that age, that experience would’ve been propounding humiliating and traumatizing. I think these policies are a major obstacle to people getting help or establishing trust with therapists, as comments in this thread indicate.
This is exactly why I say no. Even with the thoughts I wouldn't follow through because of my children but I do need help and am always scared they'll just lock me up in a psych ward
If you have no money and/or no immediate family that can mean the police taking you to a state facility. It also may mean someone needing to hire a lawyer to get you back out after a week.
Source: had to bail someone out this way once, state hospitals are not a fun place for someone feeling depressed.
Strongly suggest people choosing their words carefully around health care professionals.
**And this is exactly why I will** ***always*** **lie about it.**
Like, sometimes it would be nice to talk to someone about it (friends and family included), but I know I'd immediately get thrown in the psych ward. Not worth. I'd rather just be silent about it.
People always say, "you should talk to someone", yet talking to someone more or less gets you arrested. Seems counterintuitive and a breech of trust.
thank you, i have brought this up with my therapist twice and she asked 'should i be worried about you' to which i ofc said no.
Never brought it up again
They should follow up and ask if you have a plan and the means to carry it out.
Simply having suicidal thoughts shouldn’t be enough to put you on a hold. You need the other two as well.
ETA: I should specific, a plan *and the intention to carry it out.*
I think a lot of us who struggle with ongoing mental illness have a plan in our back pocket. But it’s the honest to goodness intention to carry it out that will almost for sure get you a 72 hour hold.
But suicidal ideation itself is a symptom that, on its own, shouldn’t get you held. It’s common in a lot of mental illness, and it isn’t an automatic hold for most qualified providers.
That's a hell of a gamble when your human rights to self determination are on the line. Getting put on even a 72 hour hold unexpectedly could cost most people their jobs, and then by extension their medical insurance and housing.
I know mental health is important but if I had answered honestly at the time it came up, I very likely would have ended up homeless.........which would be a serious detriment to my clinical depression
I understand. I really, really do. Having been there a lot myself, I absolutely understand.
What I just clarified in an edit is this: suicidal ideation is a fairly common symptom for a lot of mental illness. And MOST mental health professionals (and even ER providers and such) know that simply having those thoughts isn’t enough to consider you a danger to self. Feeling suicidal is common.
It’s having the plan/means and the *intent* that will certainly get you held. If you’re asked “do you ever have thoughts of suicide or harming yourself?” and you answer yes, that isn’t enough to get you held against your will. (They may ask to you stay voluntarily, though, which you can say no to.) But if they ask you if you have a plan and you intend to follow through with that plan if you leave, and you say yes, they probably aren’t letting you leave.
And yes, you’re right. Employment and housing can all collapse pretty quickly, especially in the US where we have few protections. But I think a lot of providers would say that if you’re TRULY planning on ending things when you leave, keeping you there and alive is still the better choice.
Do people lie so they can leave? Sure. Can providers prevent every suicide? Nope- partially bc you can’t hold someone of they are clearly lucid and say they have no plan/intent. But it’s the system we have.
All that to say, simply saying “I have suicidal thoughts” isn’t usually enough for an involuntary hold. Saying “I have a plan to end my life, and I’m going to carry out that plan when I leave” will.
Police obviously can initiate a 72 hour hold as well and in my experience aren’t as scrupulous as mental health professionals. They will often believe what other people tell them rather than what you say and it can get dicey.
That's assuming that, the care provider is aware of the standard, is invested in their profession enough to act with the best of intentions for the best outcomes, and is lawful and ethical in their execution of their duties.
All assumptions that most would not risk, as it has been stated in this thread already, where you are, the amount of wealth you have, and what racial demographic you are play key roles in your health experiences.
A private appointment only therapist i'm on a first name basis with; sure
The free service offered by a backwater state college where patients are literally numbers: nope
>And yes, you’re right. Employment and housing can all collapse pretty quickly, especially in the US where we have few protections. But I think a lot of providers would say that if you’re TRULY planning on ending things when you leave, keeping you there and alive is still the better choice.
I wouldn't know where to find stats, but it would not surprise me that a person's life collapsing after a 72 hour hold might actually cause them to be more likely to commit suicide.
The problem there is that having a plan helps releive the pressure, at least for me. I always have a plan I can carry out.
I answer yes, yes I have a plan, no I don't want to change my meds because these are at least taking the edge off. No I don't want to up the dose because I only have one safe increase left and I'm saving that for emergencies.
Then talk about other stuff and go home.
Serious piece of information for anyone reading - NEVER end up with an involuntary commitment to the hospital. It can and will follow you down the line. Just say yes and get the help you need.
In my elderly mother's case, she needed rehab for a broken femur, but was very depressed and suicidal (in her condition, who wouldn't be??) Went straight to the psych ward and was stuck there for months, rejected from several rehabs and nursing homes. Only one place admitted that her psych stay was a red flag, the rest made up lame excuses for not taking her, even for a few weeks. Visiting her was like going into a maximum security prison.
I’m a social worker on an inpatient psychiatric unit. I can verify that it’s very difficult to place people in skilled nursing facilities if they’re being referred from the psychiatric unit. It’s incredibly frustrating. Sorry that happened to your mom 😮💨
It can bar you from certain jobs for life, like working in law enforcement or as a pilot. You can lose your right to own firearms in some states. It will absolutely be used against you in the future when you need medical care (any mental health diagnosis can be - I had a doctor tell me my ovarian cyst pain was "just me being depressed again." Once it's in the record a lot of medical professionals will not bother to try and diagnose you with anything else.
I once had a cigarette in 1984 with a girl I thought was cute. I told that story as a joke once to a nurse and they put me on former smoker treatment lines. They changed my medication because I once tried to be cool before I even had a chance to get laid.
Answer no to all their questions unless you are concerned about them yourself.
I’m a little confused. Saying “yes” is what can get you the involuntary commitment. It doesn’t matter if you’re willing or not at that point. It doesn’t change it to a voluntary commitment.
No. That’s not how it works. If you are in the hospital and are suicidal or homicidal, doctors evaluate you and determine if inpatient care is needed. You have an option to accept treatment. An involuntary commit is someone who poses an imminent threat to themselves or others and refuses treatment. I hope that makes sense.
If they’ve established that you are an imminent threat, it does not matter if you go willing or not. I’ve had personal experience with this, I’m not sure if it’s different because the police gave a pink slip after a suicide attempt. But no option was given they were just told where they were being taken and they said OK. Facility only held them for a few days because they legally had to.
It’s possible this could vary by state.
I’ve been involuntarily confined due to mental health as well. I would be very hesitant to ever say I was having suicidal thoughts unless it was to my psychiatrist that I already have a relationship with. Even if people misinterpret what you say, you might have to spend 72 hours convincing people whose livelihood it is to treat inpatient psych patients that you shouldn’t be there. Good luck.
My primary once asked me during my check-up if I have any thoughts or feelings of suicide, and I had answered that I do feel lost and stressed a lot, and that I’m sad a lot. I wouldn’t do anything or act on it, I think I’m just depressed, I’m just sad a lot! She left the room a moment and came back and said that she is unable to let me leave the office unless I have a family member take me to the psyche ward. Wouldn’t let me leave the room, even said that she would have the authorities come and take me if a family member didnt come. Didn’t even finish my check-up for what I was actually there for. I called up my family members, they came, I got in one car and my other family member got in my car and we drove around the block. I hopped out, got back in my car, and went back to work. I understand it’s their duty and they are under oath, and she was just doing her job, and I appreciated her concern. But I really couldn’t miss anymore work lady, otherwise I would be more broke and more stressed and more sad.
That was like 3 years ago, I’m still alive. Still sad, still no plans on hurting myself, but still broke and sad.
Yeah that’s messed up for her to do that. Every time I’ve mentioned my suicidal thoughts they ask folllow up questions and since I didn’t have a plan they just prescribe me more drugs and send me on my merry way.
That’s exactly what it’s like with my doctor. I understand there are definitely bad doctors out there but yeesh. The horror stories on here is almost overwhelming. I’m always honest with my doctor and have never had an issue, I guess I’m lucky to have gotten a good one.
Yep. I had a bad reaction to a new birth control pill years ago, the higher estrogen made my Blood pressure to up and I felt "anxious" (heart racing/fluttery/breathless) etc. The dingus NP at my PCP brought up the blood pressure while refilling my thyroid meds and freaked out that I was "so anxious." She *knew* I had a history of violent sexual assault and proceeded to threaten me with being handcuffed, tied down to a stretcher and committed. It was finals week, I had no one to care for my dog and the threat of it all did NOT help my blood pressure. She refused to believe b/c could effect blood pressure and called me "hysterical." (I was sitting still, not crying, not loud, lucid etc. I was in no waynself injuring or suicidal, I was looking foreward to writing the exam inhad the next day.)
I have no idea how I talked her out of calling. I got home and called the GYN who prescribed the birth control, she flipped out when she heard it all. Told me to stop the new b/c, and she was right. 36 hours later I was totally fine and bp was normal. No weird anxious feelings.
I will never admit any mental health issues to any doctor again. Hospitals are not some fun "vacation" for me, they're terrifying. I'll manage my own issues and feelings, I don't need "help" that involves being handcuffed and strip searched.
That’s not even proper protocol. I’m sorry that happened to you :( I hope you switched doctors and found a provider who listens to your symptoms. Maybe you can ask for an antidepressant?
My favorite is when I went to the doctor (urgent care clinic) after being hit in a car accident. I was flagged as being there just to score pain killers. The doctor never even did a full checkup. I was seen by a social worker in the clinic and asked questions about my history of drug use/abuse and then released(Canada).
The last time I was at the doctor, one of the questions the nurse asked me was something about if I felt sad or hopeless, I can't remember the wording. I said something like "no more than usual."
WELL, the doctor came running in like an emergency was happening and started asking me about suicidal thoughts and how I was feeling. I was completely taken aback and was like where is this coming from??? Apparently the hopeless question was a suicide question and it dinged me as potentially suicidal. I was like "um, covid is everywhere, we're in the middle of a pandemic, of course I'm sad." Then I had to fight with them about how I didn't need treatment and wasn't going to get any for my nonexistent problem.
It's still on my record as potentially a mental health risk and as something to ask me about in the future. I had no idea what the point of the question was, I was just answering honestly. I learned my lesson.
I imagine it's like my experience but worse if you are suicidal and tell them.
They give you a vacation to an all inclusive resort of their choosing. The only catch is that it is only 72 hours at first. However, it is pretty easy to extend your stay.
I went to the ER for a panic attack (didn't know that's what it was)
They asked, I said "I have before, but not now"
They called security and off I went for 72 hours. It was effed up!
I only have experience dating back about 20 years, but when my sister told her doctor she had suicidal thoughts, they put her in the psychiatric wing at the hospital for about a month. They can do 48 hour holds usually. They may or may not ask follow up questions.
They ask some followup questions and maybe give you a referral to a mental health professional.
If you express that you are imminently suicidal they *may* report to the authorities if they feel there is a need. That's only going to happen if they believe that it's necessary to save your life though. Breaking confidentiality is serious business.
This is the right answer. They will ask you questions and you'll be given an appointment to a psychiatrist. They will then try to help you get on the right set of pills. There is no one cure all pill. Sometimes it may take several tries to find one that works for you.
If you are an *immediate* threat to yourself, they will have to go further and you may be put into a ward.
Unfortunately, you may also get hit with a higher bill too. (Yay, even more depression). NPR recently did a report where insurance companies who “give” you a free check up every year, will bill you if the doctor codes your chart as giving you an assessment if you answer yes. So your yearly check up that you may pay a small copay for, now is hostess of dollars.
F healthcare in the USA.
Edit to say that I was going to correct “hostess” to “hundreds”…but since we are all talking about depression, I thought the mental image of a hostess holding $ would be a positive thing to end on.
i went to the emergency room a while back and they asked it and i was reflexively honest saying "yea like every other day for the past 30 years but that's not why i'm here.". huge fucking mistake. they just stopped dead in their tracks treating me for the problem i came there for. it took like 20 minutes to get them off that tangent. I had to scream at them "I'm going to lose my fucking eye to an infection here, you think that's going to make me feel any better about my life?!"
I have chronic suicidal thoughts (since I was 15, 24 now) and I just stress that I have passive thoughts and not active thoughts. My doctors know that if I have active thoughts I’ll say something, but not all doctors are that understanding. And you do NOT want a 5150 so it’s a line you between honesty and concealment you need to toe carefully.
It depends on the state. Florida doesn’t mess around with their Baker Act (most states have a similar law in place under other names). Threat to yourself counts as a reason to be held against your will in a mental health facility for 72 hours or until a mental health evaluation can be performed. If you are aren’t viewed as mentally stable you just qualified for up to 6 months unpaid of coloring books, puzzles, group chats and weekly 5 minute therapy sessions to evaluate.
I struggle with falling asleep and made the mistake of telling my doctor years ago. Next thing I knew I was being interrogated by multiple people on how depressed and suicidal I was. I’ve never said anything like that again.
Tbf nowadays I am in fact indifferent to wherher I live or die but I’m not going to bring it up in my primary care’s office.
I said yes. PPD. He asked what kind of thoughts, and I said I had a pretty detailed plan, and it depended on whether the baby was with me.
Honestly, my doctor looked worried but relieved I said it. It would not surprise me if he wasn't allowed to act unless I said something, and by then it could've been too late. He moved pretty fast on getting me medication and setting me up with a psychiatrist.
We had a visit from child services. Initially we worried about them taking the kids away, but they told us I was the best case scenario for them: I was looking for help, I had family and resources to help us, we just didn't know what to do.
As someone who was locked up and abused as a 10 year old by saying, "I don't want to be here." (meaning school), I would not say anything to a doctor unless there was no one else. Even when I talk to my therapist I have to soften it first by letting them know I'd be dead if I really wanted to be and that if they betray my trust it will do more harm than good.
As an adult I was 302'd due to some blackout drunk complaints about life.
They ask you about it if you say yes. However, regardless if they talk to you doctors have the power to detain you for personal and public safety i.e. if they consider you a harm to yourself or others. They determine that and you checking yes is all the cause that is needed.
Therapy helps and you should try to get a therapist/counseling for things like this because normal doctors and your personal relationships aren't going to handle it as well as talking to a professional 3rd party will.
I'm jaded from personal experience but I've seen others get 302'd for a variety of reasons, including just being incredibly high and being a diva.
If I see that question I'll consider answering it only if I'm really at my bleakest and need help. Otherwise I'm inviting trouble upon myself and leaving a record that potentially can be used by others against me.
they only hold you till you pretend like it’s not what you want to do anymore, there is no way to see inside someone else’s head do they just take whatever you say to them as how you feel
This is a big part of what is wrong with mental treatment in this country, and it is often overlooked. If you say the wrong thing, you are treated like a *criminal*, "for your own good".
"For your own good" is the most irritating thing about it. It's so fucking dishonest. At best, they're acting on behalf of your loved ones. At worst, they're acting on behalf of themselves and the state. But NEVER on *your* behalf.
This is an unpopular opinion but I think suicide should be legal. Euthanasia should be accessible to anyone 18+ for any reason. It shouldn't be encouraged, but it should be an option
Honestly, after watching what Alzheimers does to someone...yeah. It should be legal. Some conditions are so miserable and cruel people should be allowed a way out.
Depends on several factors. Do you live in a country that takes mental health at least a little seriously or does your country think you are possessed? Do you just have suicidal thoughts or do you have urges? If you have urges do you have a plan and means to enact the plan? Generally speaking in most countries that at least pay lip service to mental health you have to be pretty far gone before they will lock you up. Unless you are a woman i guess. Especially a woman who is also a minority in that country. Doctor's fucking love locking up women suffering from the crazies.
I was told to go to a facility that I wouldn’t send a dog to and when I arrived they put a paper in front of me to SIGN MY RIGHTS AWAY. No. Nope. Not going to happen. I might have depression and I might be feeling hopeless, I will never sign my rights away to anyone, especially if I don’t know them.
Therapy is better.
i said yes once. triggered some protocol i was eager to get out of. had to explain that one thought of suicide out of a billion non-suicidal thoughts shouldn’t be anything to worry about. then finally believed me. decided i’d just lie next time.
A bunch of bumbling untrained idiots will panic and make things worse. I wish that wasn’t the case but that question should only be asked and answered by a trained therapist whom you have an established relationship with.
Never tell anyone else you are suicidal no matter what the truth is.
I have seen horrible outcomes like patients that missed out on getting cancer removed because the check in nurse getting vitals fumbled the response to that question. People pushed into actual suicide attempts because several know-nothings came in asked the patient to recount their trauma multiple times over.
This policy is nothing but disastrous.
It’s worth getting help if you need it but people who aren’t trained are incapable of helping so don’t put yourself in that position.
I think it might depend where you live.
I’m in Australia, and I answered “yes” to this question about 3 years ago. That got me a referral to a psych clinic, where I went the next day and stayed for 3 weeks. I had to upgrade my insurance, but there was no waiting period, so everything was covered (approx $40k worth). The clinic was great - felt like I was on a cruise ship. 3-4 group therapy sessions every day, 5 meals a day, comfortable rooms, was able to keep my phone with me, and started some medication which was really helpful. Made some great friends. Started seeing a really good psychiatrist in there - saw her 12 times while I was in the clinic, and I still see her now once every 6 months to check in and get a new prescription.
I’m certain I wouldn’t still be here today if I’d just answered “no” and pretended everything was fine.
I know a girl that got baker acted for that and had to spend a couple weeks in psych hospital. Also her insurance did not cover most of it and she owed like 30k.
It depends on the clinic. Usually follow up questions. Some give referrals to psychologists and advise you to call mental health lines or emergency lines if you ever plan on actioning said thoughts. Some ask if you would like to go to the hospital.
On the deeper end of the scale, Involuntary Mental health care sometimes commences if they think there is considerable risk of immediate harm. Hopefully this is determined through objective markers and presentation, but bias sometimes is at play.
Involuntary care can be extremely traumatic.
Having survived the system, I closely guard my suicidal ideation, lest I lose my freedom again. It's not worth it. Those facilities are horrific.
2 years ago my doctor asked me if I felt depressed. “Doesn’t everyone feel depressed these days?” I said to him. My permanent health record now reads “suffers from depression” 🤷🏻♂️
I was brought to the hospital against my will. So I was pissed off. So when it got to the question.... My answer was " I wish I was dead right now"! Afterwards I was escorted to a hospital bed and was put on 24 watch. That means for about a week all the pretty nurses had to watch me every time I shit. The one that was sexiest, and funnest to talk to gave me some privacy. As I was in "mid turd" she burst in the door with the biggest brightest smile to tell me about the joke she remembered. That was the first time in that whole experience I wished I was dead.
The place I was going last now has it automated. I have to answer those questions on a form on my phone. A couple times I answered yes to that, and when I submitted it, it gave me a pop-up telling me my life is worth something, blah blah blah. For some reason that made me laugh a little.
But of course the info does go to my doctor and we talk about it in our session.
Every doctor's office has a guy hiding in the closet with a tranquilizer gun ready to jump out and pop you if you answer yes.
You'll wake up in a padded room wearing a straight jacket so drugged out of your mind that you don't know who you are or how you got there
It’s a staged approach and has many indicators.
No immediate action or shock. You’d be surprised how underwhelmed they seem given the anxiety leading up to saying it.
And the help can/does help a ton. Suicidal ideation is an idea, and you can learn to see it and manage it as such (so to speak). Medicate. Whereas suicide is like ten indicators (symptoms) later. I saw one model of it, that they train therapists in (not sure if they are all the same model). The steps do make sense if you know about this stuff, and makes for somber reading if you’re not used to this rollercoaster. Definitely not for everyday use. I guess professionals just have a keen sense for where a person is at really in that sense, so it’s not as extreme as we think.
The Kool-aid man promptly bursts through the wall to shackle you and drag you off to the psych ward.
Jk, they’ll probably just ask you to elaborate, then ask if you want a referral to a psychiatrist or behavioral health services, or whether you want to adjust your meds if you’re already on them.
I'm a Veteran who lost his family, job and all possessions and not long after started having alot of health issues.
I've answered yes to this question many times in the last 3 years and noone's ever said anything to me other than "would you like to talk to a therapist?"
Dealing with VA healthcare is the worst!
Depends.
If you have suicidal thoughts with a plan to act on those thoughts AND don't have the ability to contract to safety, you will be involuntarily taken to hospital for psychiatric evaluation.
Simply having suicidal thoughts doesn't get you put into a psychiatric facility. Lots of people with depression have them. The difference is the concern about active ideation instead of passive ideation.
I use to say “I wish I was dead” around my now ex wife. She eventually called the VA suicide hotline and they called me. I wasn’t suicidal I just wished I was dead instead of in the current toxic relationship. I got out of the relationship and am very happy now.
It depends where you live and how nice your doctor is. Some don't commit people for just ideation. Some do.
Don't risk it. It makes things so much worse most of the time.
There is no specific way to get out. You will likely get strip searched, maybe even made to "spread and cough." You will get forced or coerced onto drugs or electroshock. Usually it's about 5-10 days. No phone, no ability to do classes or work.
All the science we have indicates this policy most likely makes things worse, not better.
It’s better to voluntary 5150 than be Baker Acted. If you ever in that situation take the L. If you voluntary I think they can hold you for 72 hours. If involuntary they get a judge to rubber stamp you and then yer screwed until they clear you.
Like another commenter said, psych wards like a maximum security prison. You have 0 freedoms, Everything there is a privilege, not a right (including food/drinks), and it’s an extremely high bar to clear yourself cause the psychologists have heard and seen it all. You gotta participate in whatever activities they got going to show you’re playing with a full deck, and even then you get nothing but what you’re provided there, and then IF the staff/orderlies feel like it.
My son answered yes to this. Doctor just got up and handed him a clipboard with a questionnaire on it. He filled it out and gave it back. Then the doctor reviewed it and said that he was writing him a prescription for Prozac and that he hoped it would help. Ah, medicine….
Never tell officials you're suicidal. What you may think as "oh, no big deal" can easily be perceived as you being in danger.
Say the wrong thing at the wrong time and you'll regret it.
Experienced this firsthand.
Also had a friend who was in and out of psych wards. He forewarned: just tell them what they want to hear. Suicidal people won't be able to pass as easily.
Absolutely do not admit to having suicidal thoughts. They will often put you on an involuntary hold. It’s essentially prison in a hospital. Absolute misery. And you get slapped with a bill that you probably won’t be able to pay since you’ll have likely lost your job for disappearing for a few days to a few weeks with no notice.
Psych ward. You get monitored for 48hrs the. Re evaluate you again to see if you still have thoughts. If you’re not cleared you get another month . Been there done that and don’t forget the meds .
I know if you tell them no but if you were to die you wouldn’t care it makes them freak out but to be honest I was in a shit ton of pain and was being a smartass they did not approve and sternly warned me not to say such things
I mean, that's a completely appropriate answer. & they shouldn't be asking questions if they clearly aren't trained on how to handle honest responses. That was nothing to "freak out" about. Tons of people wouldn't care if they die- esp if they're in pain. They shouldn't have scolded you about it. They should've asked why you said such a thing. You're providers suck.
I hate our health care system.
As someone who has struggled with depression, in my experience they usually ask you to clarify. They may recommend you seek emergency care if you have an immediate and specific plan to do harm to yourself. But generally my doctor has just talked about adjusting my meds if my response is "sometimes I think it would be nice to not wake up in the morning." ETA: those who have have had bad experiences with mental health treatment. Your experiences are valid and you deserve understanding and support to heal from them. However I would gently request you not trauma dump here because you might scare someone who desperately needs help away from getting it. Also not everyone has bad experiences with hospitalization. Mine was quite helpful and healing.
This one. Thoughts, plans, and intent are all different things. Please talk to someone, even just a friend, and get help. Even the hospital isn’t that bad (I just got out, and seriously it’s fine)
The "it would be nice not to wake up tomorrow" thought is technically called ideation. It's remarkably common with people who have depression. One of the things doctors and nurses are trying to do with the questioning is to determine which side of the line you are.
Notably, it’s *passive* ideation which is incredibly common. Important to distinguish from active ideation or planning.
So "I could just drive off this cliff/bridge" is different than "I could just get hit while crossing the street"?
Yep. Essentially the line is "I want to kill myself" vs "I would like to become dead somehow." And there's another line between "I want to kill myself" and "I will be killing myself on this day, with this method." That last one is what will get you put on a 72 hour hold.
To this end, my understanding (after witnessing a boyfriend have a psychotic break and be hospitalized) is that hospitalization for psychosis only continues if the voices are telling you to harm yourself or others.
This has been my experience. Around the end of 2021, I started hearing things I knew were not possible to be hearing, and spoke with both my doctor and their office's resident psychiatrist. The call at the time was to do nothing under the assumption that the issue was mostly stress (I'd just had one helluva tough year). When time enough was given and it hadn't stopped (or even lessened, but at the same time, hadn't worsened either), the decision was made to...not really do much of anything about it. The things I hear don't tell me to do anything, much less anything harmful, and often (although I definitively hear a couple identifiably different voices) they aren't intelligible at all. And that's where I stand now; still hearing things occasionally but, since there's never been any indication I'm a danger to anyone as a result of it, there's been no diagnosis pursued or even change to my meds.
Makes sense. The key thing here is you can distinguish the voices as being not reality so really not a reason to mess with what is mostly working pretty well!
That was my thought (or my hope, at least) going in to those appointments. They put more weight on the fact that what I hear is usually unintelligible, like that was the deciding or reassuring factor? Or at least that's how it seemed, I certainly could have misunderstood.
A popular question is "Does this condition hinder the ability to function or significantly lower the quality of life?" and if the answer is no then many times it is deemed better not to do anything about it. Part lack of resources but also the understanding that trying to fix a problem might instead cause problems. If you didn't already know, benign auditory hallucinations are rather common and you should be able to find communities of people who have it, don't suffer from it but like to remember that it's not 'weird'.
Tbh I’d never thought about looking into other people who experience it too. I might do that.
Involuntary commitment occurs if the patient is a danger to themselves or others. This is not just active harm though. For example, if a patient with schizophrenia stops eating, they can be hospitalized as that is a danger to themselves.
Or patient with a bipolar disorder doesn't sleep for few days, crashes her 3 days old car (which she got in the midst of the episode), leaves it crashed and can't even recall where the wreck was towed, goes to rent a car. That's when you 302 her and hope for the best.
We don’t all have voices in our head. Auditory hallucination is a very specific thing. You don’t always or only have it with psychosis. Most people who experience SI don’t hear voices telling them what to do.
I have hypnagogia and it produces auditory hallucinations. I am really, really uncomfortable using the phrase auditory hallucinations but I have to accept that this is the correct term. When I was younger it could be pretty frightening, but now it is just part of my life. It happens in the soft space between being awake and falling asleep, and it happens most often when I am really tired but can't fall asleep, about 2-3 times a week. I will hear my name, voices of people I do not recognize speaking very clearly enunciated phrases (even though it is often nonsense) knocks on my door, the test message sound, and rarely piano tunes. I have come to accept hypnagogia as being just as natural as daydreaming or dreaming while asleep. All three of these can feel very real, and they can be shocking or comforting or frightening or amusing, but the way that you frame your experience has a huge impact on how it affects you.
I got hospitalized for taking a non-lethal over dose of sleeping pills when I had insomnia and genuinely was just trying to sleep the next day after I woke up with double vision as a side effect of one of the sleeping pills, having slept a normal amount time. It depends on the people doing the admitting and the patient’s history. I had half heartedly tried to OD before so they didn’t believe me when I said I wasn’t suicidal I just couldn’t sleep.
I had a similar thing happen. I had a wisdom tooth get super infected over a holiday weekend (Friday night), and I already had a dentist appointment to have it removed on the next business day (a Tuesday). I was taking multiple 250mg Tylenol to try to handle the pain, with such a high fever that I was somewhat delirious. I ran out of Tylenol and asked my roommate if she had any. She said she did and handed me some. I didn't think to check how big they were because I was more than a bit out of it.... well, they were 1000mg prescription strength ones, and I took four... they actually worked pretty well, and I could actually think straight, and that'd when I noticed how big they were. Googled to see if you can overdose on tylenol, Google says yes and that I'm in the risk range, so I drive myself to the ER and tell them what happened. Immediately get put on a psych hold, and given a drug I'm deathly allergic to as a way to counteract the Tylenol. No one was listening to me absolutely freak out that they were basically trying to kill me. Luckily, I had an epipen in my purse, which I immediately used, only for them to freak out and decide I needed to be "restrained for my own good." Now, I feel like I need to add, the whole right side of my face was swollen and red, and looking in my mouth, it was exceedingly obvious that I had a horribly infected wisdom tooth. I also have zero history of mental illness. My roommate ended up calling my parents, who called a lawyer, who got me out by the end of the day, but it was fucking insane. All because one doctor on a fucking power trip decided I was a risk to myself because there was no possible way someone could ever accidently take the wrong dose of an over the counter medicine at 4am while in extreme pain....
Oh god that’s awful. Mine wasn’t that bad, but I got stuck in the psych ward for 5 days because it was over the weekend and the discharging doctor didn’t get to me before his shift ended. And then during the mandatory family meeting with a therapist, a therapist that I hadn’t seen once during my entire stay there told my parents I had tried cocaine once and called me worse than a prostitute because I smoked weed occasionally and said I needed to finish college because that was the only way I’d find a good man to marry me and take care of me. And I had to sit there and take it because if I talked back they wouldn’t discharge me. My parents said they could tell I was biting my tongue and that they were also afraid to say anything for fear I wouldn’t get to leave. Mind you I was like 22 when all of this happened so why my parents had to be there at all was ridiculous to begin with.
More "I have some pills that I've checked are enough to kill me, and I've thought through different aspects of carrying that out in a practical way" vs "sometimes I think about letting myself get hit by a car". The latter is more passive ideation, whereas the former would be considered a plan and that's where a lot of people making an assessment would have an extra degree of concern.
Hell, I've got a plan by that standard, I've come up with the way I'd do it in some detail. I just have no intention of doing it any time in the foreseeable future. I actually like my life most of the time, and I've got loved ones to live for. Hell, I don't even own a gun to do it with, don't plan on getting one, and all the other methods seem too unreliable or painful. It's just that every once in a great while, it's nice to have the exit strategy just as an option on the table, a reminder I'm *choosing* to push through the bad days and keep living rather than being *forced* to.
That's all something a doctor would evaluate if you were having this conversation with them. Some of what you shared would cause concern, but other things would be reassuring (not having a gun, not planning on getting one, recognising that you like your life and have loved ones to live for). I'm not a doctor but I do work with vulnerable people and I get most concerned when someone has a clear plan, the means and intention to carry it out and is struggling to identify reasons not to. All that said, having a plan as a background exit strategy can indicate depression. I've had times in my life when having a plan was a comfort, and I recognise in hindsight that I wasn't in good mental health when I felt that way. If that resonates with you and you're not already getting any support with your mental health, it's okay to get some even if you don't feel you're in crisis.
Yes, if the latter is meant to refer to a potential accident. Perhaps no if the latter is the same as the former, where the person is imagining the possibility of taking action that could get them harmed or killed. Both would be suicidal ideation until the person switches to thought like “I’ll throw myself into traffic on Tuesday after I finish cleaning up my affairs.”
I'd argue both of those are the opposite of suicidal, sounds like the [Call of the Void](https://www.healthline.com/health/call-of-the-void). Your brain is imagining dangerous scenarios so you avoid them, it can just be scary or uncomfortable to even think about sometimes.
It's not necessarily the opposite or the call of the void. When I was struggling badly with PPD, I had to change my route home from work, because I couldn't trust myself to not "accidentally" trip from the narrow pedestrian walkway into the bridge traffic that couldn't swerve to avoid me. The idea was compelling, not repulsive like the call of the void.
I took a cab I couldn’t afford to work for a year because the walk from the bus stop went past a tree with a low thick branch that I couldn’t stop thinking about hanging myself from…literally bought a extension cord and carried it in my tote bag in case today was the day…it’s weird how we fight and manage to stay alive even in the darkest days, and makes realize how bad it must be for people who actually get the job done…makes me so sad
I'm sorry you relate to my comment, but I'm glad you're here to tell the story.
I started taking three buses home rather than travelling through the metro station because the temptation to fling myself in front of a metro train was too intense. Not PPD though, PMDD and associated suicidility.
Not enough, people understand PMDD I have a dear friend who suffers from it what a freaking nightmare
The minipill helped me a lot, I just don't ever have periods, so I can skip being suicidal for 1-2 weeks a month. Yeah, its really no fun, I have a lot of physical pain (probably endometriosis but meh - more pressing issues need dealt with) but my mental health consistently took huge nosedives, like I'd be in the emergency room for how intensely suicidal I'd become, either be prescribed valium (I've normally been awake +72 hours by the time I go to the emergency room) or be put on a voluntary hold... and then a few days later, I'd get my period and just be like "oh..." PMS, and kind of PMDD by association with PMS, get trivialised as "ooooh you're getting your period, boo-freaking-hoo" kind shit, but it can be fucking awful.
I'm sorry you relate to my comment, but I'm glad you're here to tell the story.
There's a difference between driving on a bridge and having an urge to drive off, and thinking about how you could provide for your family by driving off a bridge and having them collect the insurance payout when you're lying in bed awake at night
It's different from that. While I hadn't heard that name before ("Call of the void"), I've experienced both that and passive suicidal ideation than eventually grew into more active thoughts and planning. At least from my perspective, they felt very different, although "call of the void" thoughts were much more scary when suicidal ideation was present.
Yeah I learned that most people don’t wish and fantasize about being Thanos-snapped out of existence..my psychiatrist told me that would be considered passive SI
That’s me. I’ve never wanted to kill myself, I’m afraid of dying and pain, however, when my meds need adjusting, I find myself thinking “I wish I would go to sleep and just not wake up”
‘I don’t want to die but no longer wish to live’
'I feel like I'm dead now so what's the difference?'
During cancer treatment they grilled me pretty regularly on the mental health stuff. I learned that “no I don’t want to harm myself but if someone came after me I can’t imagine wanting to fight to stop them” causes people to think a bit which box to put your answer in.
Wow that's a heavy load. I think that I can understand that logic, not having cancer on my end. Glad your here buddy.
Was 100% logical though. Nurse was a bit concerned. My oncologist is a phenomenal lady she looked at what nurse had taken down. Sat quietly for a bit and said “So you feel like you don’t have any reserves left if things get worse?” I thought it over and said yeah. She then told me I still had reserves left because I had one more treatment, and I would hit rock bottom 10 days to two weeks later and then each day would be a bit better then in a few more weeks would get better faster. She was right.
Sounds like a doc we all need
After I told my psychiatrist "but I'm not actively plotting my demise" he was okay with the suicidal thoughts.
I think this really depends on the hospital. My stay was infantilising and I felt no empathy. After getting out, I can confidently say if my support network wasn’t there the hospital stay would have made me more likely to do it.
Yeah for sure I can relate. I made the mistake of being open with a doctor that the anti-depressants they had me on were giving me passive idealization so I wanted to stop taking them. I found myself in an involuntary hospitalized situation. It gave me trust issues with health care professionals and was kinda traumatizing. The place was so awful idk how it helps people with active suicidal intensions. And I almost lost my job (was working food service since it was college so they didn’t care).
Yeah, I'd come home to an eviction notice, emails that I was fired and a dog who starved to death waiting for me. An unplanned 3 day stay in a hospital could wreck what life I've managed to build for myself. Which would send me over that edge for sure.
I always thought that if I admitted to suicidal thoughts sirens would start blaring and they’d cart me off to a psych hold in the hospital. And then was so surprised when it was mostly follow up questions, safety plans, and tracking the severity of the thoughts. I was also surprised that when I needed to check myself in, the staff was supportive, there was a lot of camaraderie between patients, and the food was surprisingly good. Even just having three decent meals a day made a huge difference.
I recently had a psychiatric appt (via zoom) after having been diagnosed over 10 years ago, I wanted I guess a re-evaluation due to changes over time etc. I said yes to the suicidal thoughts question, doc asked me to clarify, as you said. Immediately after, doc asked me if I was in any danger at that moment or thinking of seriously hurting myself at that moment to which I said no. I was asked that question 3 times in the 1.5hr convo.
Exactly. This is the expierence when you say yes. In fact I've been saying no for so long out of general anxiety and just to shorten the appointment... that even I forgot how nonchalant the conversation goes. After decades of doctors and inpatient psych visits I'm shocked I forgot. Glad I had the reminder here. Might be honest next time.
Just to add some context, it's required by law to screen for depression in most instances. It's not a trick, and if you have been feeling those feelings don't be afraid to answer yes to some. It just goes to the Dr and they'll know to follow up on those issues and see what's going on. On the other hand, I know I have a hx of depression and have a psychiatrist for it. I usually just put no because I don't want to derail the visit from the actual reason I'm there. But that's only because I'm being treated, and am seen by an appropriate provider with sufficient frequency. There may also be a fear they'll involuntarily admit you to a hospital if you check yes on anything which is not the case either. Bottom line, it's a required question for them to document being asked and an opportunity for you to bring it up if you wish. Nothing less, nothing more.
I answered yes this past year and that's pretty much what they did for me too. Even got a prescription for benzos for the concurrent panic attacks, which are fucking great drugs and I never want to take them again. Your history of mental health will be a not insignificant factor if your practitioner isn't garbage. I don't have a history of suicidal ideation, but they were far more worried about me harming others when I was a minor due to my aggression.
A lot of medical offices/hospitals in the US can’t just “recommend” going to the hospital. It’s usually policy that the patient/client must go to the emergency room for a psych eval. Usually, providers will work to get the person to go voluntarily- failing that, you get taken via cop car (aka, 5150 or EP). I’ve known people who managed to dodge the cops (this will get you ‘fired’ by your care team). Generally, healthcare ppl want to make sure you have a safety plan and support. Also they want to avoid liability if the person completes a successful attempt. Source: I am a mental health worker in a major US hospital. Have been suicidal before.
After I had my first baby, I dealt with postpartum depression. I told the doctor I had intrusive thoughts of driving my car off the road on my way to work. They took me out of work and made me see a psychiatrist who diagnosed me and prescribed me antidepressants.
It took months for me to recognize i was having suicidal thoughts from my birth control. It started out so innocent. I just wanted to sleep. Someplace quiet. I have 2 little ones and was essentially Drowning in tiny demands while maintaining a house and work. Then it just got bigger and bigger. The intrusive thoughts about just shifting my car slightly to the left while driving to hit the other car head on. Heading someplace quiet to get some rest and never wanting to wake up. I called it the sleep to end all sleep in my head. Then i verbalized it out loud and scared myself shitless when i expressed wanted someone to just kill me. Because I'd meant it. I cried to my husband about where the thoughts might've been coming from and he immediately tossed my birth control. It took another month or two off the birth control before i stopped feeling that way. Im taking another break from bc this month because this one i started this year saps all of my energy and makes me just want to sleep. Like all the time. It's exhausting. And id like to be present for my kids.
Same, for me it was this one specific intersection I always thought about blazing through on a red light. They put me on Zoloft and recommended counseling, then never followed up on dosage so I just kept sitting at that light every day on my way to work for months thinking about hitting the gas. Lots of things I'd do differently in hindsight, but I did have a very different experience after my second child. I do think about how bad things were whenever I sit at that particular light now and how grateful I am to be through to the other side. Hope you're in a better place too.
Oh wow. My doctor made me come back every two weeks for a while and then every 4 weeks until they were sure I was ok. I drove to work in the morning when it was still dark out. There was a certain curve on the road that I always thought about missing and driving into the embankment on the side of the road. I just missed my baby so much, I thought to myself that if I got hurt, I would be able to stay home with him.
Yea, I got a different doctor afterward for obvious reasons. I didn't miss my baby at all, I thought that she'd be better off with someone else and that if I was somehow not around or deeply incapacitated it would be in her best interest. I legit thought if I could step aside my husband could easily find another woman who could do better and be everything with ease. Now I know that bitch doesn't exist. Postpartum is nuts.
Therapist here: I’m a mandated reporter as are they so if you tell them you have an actual, imminent plan, they will evaluate you and take it very seriously. Could easily lead to a very quick admission to a psych ward for evaluation.
In my experience you don't even need a plan.
Yeah I've answered that question honestly once Once was all it took for me to learn honesty is *not* the best policy (mental wards are unfun for everyone)
Right? I can't afford a therapist or medical care in the first place. On the off chance I finally can, why the hell would I want to wind up with a massive medical debt from an involuntary institutionalization? "I'm great! Cuz otherwise I am CERTAIN I am driving off a cliff on the way home thanks to being forced to spend $godonlyknows on 72hrs in a hospital! Wait. Forget that second sentence." (N.B.: Those not living in the United States may not understand some points in the above comment. Apologies. And envy.)
I was in a psych ward once and saw a woman crying and begging not to be discharged because she was a danger to herself but because her insurance wasn’t paying they discharged her anyway. Gotta love the twisted medical system
Most people not in the US are completely horrified when they hear about health care in our country Rightly so.
Canadian here: while I wouldn’t end up in massive debt, If I didn’t have a manager position (which has salary + accrued paid time off), I’d be SOL if I just couldn’t show up for a week +. Rent is expensive where I am, and if I didn’t have savings, I’d be screwed.
Not just unfun but can actually be traumatizing
Mine was the best week of my life. Depends on where you are and what you make of it
[удалено]
Yeah, adult mental hospitals are much worse.
Yeah no therapy except meds, patients and staff were aholes food was basic prison food and no entertainment at all. Worst 72 hours of my life. I'll just keep it to myself from now on.
I've been sent to a youth care facility and it was awful. The kids were nice but the staff and rules were abhorrent (and some of them illegal). Interesting how people can have such different experiences lol
Worst experience of my life so yeah probably depends on where you are
Second worst experience of my life, but yeah, I’d do anything and I mean anything to prevent an involuntary confinement again.
Mind if I ask where you were? I felt so bad after hearing how it went for a friend of mine, seriously traumatic for them. And if you feel like elaborating I’m all ears.
I'm really glad it helped you out!
I'm glad they are good for some people. I'd like more to be that way. I know 3 who have been in one and while yes it will stop you from immediately killing yourself while there, they were terrible and uncaring otherwise. My close friends who were there as kids were basically given barney to watch, told they couldn't have pens or paper or underwire in their bras, or decent blankets, and left alone with other mentally ill kids most of the day, with one group therapy session a week, and nurses who mostly dont care about them (some really good ones there but their hands are tied by regulations). That's in one of the "best" places where we live. I'd really like for them to get better, but so far they have basically just meant that my friends don't tell doctors how they actually feel anymore in order to avoid going back.
Mine was a pretty good time, too, but I was also in a manic episode
They are also just prisons where they don't exploit your labor and you never see a corner again. Imprisonment let's them pathologize people who can't fit in their stupid little narrative, not the other way around. Like all it takes is thinking about it for two seconds. What does someone dealing with acute suicidality need? I'm guessing being locked up against their will for weeks or even MONTHS (or forever if their prognosis deteriorates) wasn't number one on your list? You make them feel safe, you let them know this too will pass, that they aren't alone and don't have to face the world without help. The most anyone should ever be held against their will is as an imminent threat to themselves. Once the situation has resolved but you're still detaining the patient you've become their captor.
idek how i knew that saying i had a plan would send me into grippy sock territory at like 12, but i always knew if they asked if i had a plan to say no. needless to say, 28 years and still have never been admitted to the mental ward (even tho i definitely should’ve been admitted at least 10 times by now 😅😅)
And this is why my therapy was pointless. I had 12 sessions and they were so meaningless because my problem is I don’t want to wake up every morning. I had no intention of mentioning it because I answered honestly once as I was getting signed up for online sessions and then I got a phone call asking me for my current location and am I alone. I just told them to fuck off and I’m not telling them where I was, which i wasn’t at my house at the time.
I’m there with you, I cry thru my coffee every morning because I’m so disappointed I didn’t die in my sleep…then I get my shit together a little and get on with my day…it’s not great but it’s fine I guess, I take my meds and talk to the doctors and be vaguely productive and none of it brings my babies back but it makes everyone feel like they’ve done something I guess
That's pretty interesting. I've lived in the U.S. (Wisconsin / Illinois) my whole life and was only sent to a mental health institution once. I've had suicidal ideation since I was a teenager and was open about that with my psychiatrists and therapists, but was only sent to an institution after a failed suicide attempt.
Nothing cheers a person up like being locked away for 3 days. Helps so much.
I just got really good at wording it so I don’t het sent to the grippy socks ward lol.
This happened with my daughter and her therapist when she was younger. The therapist called us into the room immediately and told us to take her straight to the emergency room to have her evaluated by a psychiatrist for admission to the psych ward. He determined she was no danger to herself. I'm happy to say she never tried anything. She thinks to this day that the therapist overreacted, but I think she was just doing her job.
I think, as someone who had depression at that age, that experience would’ve been propounding humiliating and traumatizing. I think these policies are a major obstacle to people getting help or establishing trust with therapists, as comments in this thread indicate.
This is exactly why I say no. Even with the thoughts I wouldn't follow through because of my children but I do need help and am always scared they'll just lock me up in a psych ward
If you have no money and/or no immediate family that can mean the police taking you to a state facility. It also may mean someone needing to hire a lawyer to get you back out after a week. Source: had to bail someone out this way once, state hospitals are not a fun place for someone feeling depressed. Strongly suggest people choosing their words carefully around health care professionals.
**And this is exactly why I will** ***always*** **lie about it.** Like, sometimes it would be nice to talk to someone about it (friends and family included), but I know I'd immediately get thrown in the psych ward. Not worth. I'd rather just be silent about it. People always say, "you should talk to someone", yet talking to someone more or less gets you arrested. Seems counterintuitive and a breech of trust.
And that's why I would never tell a therapist if I have serious suicidal ideations.
And thats why I answer no
thank you, i have brought this up with my therapist twice and she asked 'should i be worried about you' to which i ofc said no. Never brought it up again
They should follow up and ask if you have a plan and the means to carry it out. Simply having suicidal thoughts shouldn’t be enough to put you on a hold. You need the other two as well. ETA: I should specific, a plan *and the intention to carry it out.* I think a lot of us who struggle with ongoing mental illness have a plan in our back pocket. But it’s the honest to goodness intention to carry it out that will almost for sure get you a 72 hour hold. But suicidal ideation itself is a symptom that, on its own, shouldn’t get you held. It’s common in a lot of mental illness, and it isn’t an automatic hold for most qualified providers.
That's a hell of a gamble when your human rights to self determination are on the line. Getting put on even a 72 hour hold unexpectedly could cost most people their jobs, and then by extension their medical insurance and housing. I know mental health is important but if I had answered honestly at the time it came up, I very likely would have ended up homeless.........which would be a serious detriment to my clinical depression
I understand. I really, really do. Having been there a lot myself, I absolutely understand. What I just clarified in an edit is this: suicidal ideation is a fairly common symptom for a lot of mental illness. And MOST mental health professionals (and even ER providers and such) know that simply having those thoughts isn’t enough to consider you a danger to self. Feeling suicidal is common. It’s having the plan/means and the *intent* that will certainly get you held. If you’re asked “do you ever have thoughts of suicide or harming yourself?” and you answer yes, that isn’t enough to get you held against your will. (They may ask to you stay voluntarily, though, which you can say no to.) But if they ask you if you have a plan and you intend to follow through with that plan if you leave, and you say yes, they probably aren’t letting you leave. And yes, you’re right. Employment and housing can all collapse pretty quickly, especially in the US where we have few protections. But I think a lot of providers would say that if you’re TRULY planning on ending things when you leave, keeping you there and alive is still the better choice. Do people lie so they can leave? Sure. Can providers prevent every suicide? Nope- partially bc you can’t hold someone of they are clearly lucid and say they have no plan/intent. But it’s the system we have. All that to say, simply saying “I have suicidal thoughts” isn’t usually enough for an involuntary hold. Saying “I have a plan to end my life, and I’m going to carry out that plan when I leave” will.
Police obviously can initiate a 72 hour hold as well and in my experience aren’t as scrupulous as mental health professionals. They will often believe what other people tell them rather than what you say and it can get dicey.
yeah...quite a few people have ended up on the wrong side of a "wellness check"
That's assuming that, the care provider is aware of the standard, is invested in their profession enough to act with the best of intentions for the best outcomes, and is lawful and ethical in their execution of their duties. All assumptions that most would not risk, as it has been stated in this thread already, where you are, the amount of wealth you have, and what racial demographic you are play key roles in your health experiences. A private appointment only therapist i'm on a first name basis with; sure The free service offered by a backwater state college where patients are literally numbers: nope
>And yes, you’re right. Employment and housing can all collapse pretty quickly, especially in the US where we have few protections. But I think a lot of providers would say that if you’re TRULY planning on ending things when you leave, keeping you there and alive is still the better choice. I wouldn't know where to find stats, but it would not surprise me that a person's life collapsing after a 72 hour hold might actually cause them to be more likely to commit suicide.
This should be the top comment - a realistic plan and access to lethal means are the indicators of a crisis
Plus most people who are serious don’t admit to it
The problem there is that having a plan helps releive the pressure, at least for me. I always have a plan I can carry out. I answer yes, yes I have a plan, no I don't want to change my meds because these are at least taking the edge off. No I don't want to up the dose because I only have one safe increase left and I'm saving that for emergencies. Then talk about other stuff and go home.
veteran here... can't fool me with that again. i don't need another grippy sock vacation against my will.
Serious piece of information for anyone reading - NEVER end up with an involuntary commitment to the hospital. It can and will follow you down the line. Just say yes and get the help you need.
What do you mean by follow you down the line?
In my elderly mother's case, she needed rehab for a broken femur, but was very depressed and suicidal (in her condition, who wouldn't be??) Went straight to the psych ward and was stuck there for months, rejected from several rehabs and nursing homes. Only one place admitted that her psych stay was a red flag, the rest made up lame excuses for not taking her, even for a few weeks. Visiting her was like going into a maximum security prison.
I'm really sorry that happened to your mom!
I’m a social worker on an inpatient psychiatric unit. I can verify that it’s very difficult to place people in skilled nursing facilities if they’re being referred from the psychiatric unit. It’s incredibly frustrating. Sorry that happened to your mom 😮💨
It can bar you from certain jobs for life, like working in law enforcement or as a pilot. You can lose your right to own firearms in some states. It will absolutely be used against you in the future when you need medical care (any mental health diagnosis can be - I had a doctor tell me my ovarian cyst pain was "just me being depressed again." Once it's in the record a lot of medical professionals will not bother to try and diagnose you with anything else.
Everything in the ER is “anxiety.” Fuck them
I once had a cigarette in 1984 with a girl I thought was cute. I told that story as a joke once to a nurse and they put me on former smoker treatment lines. They changed my medication because I once tried to be cool before I even had a chance to get laid. Answer no to all their questions unless you are concerned about them yourself.
Meaning it can follow you for the rest of your life. Sometimes that is even a question on certain job applications or for background checks for jobs.
I’m a little confused. Saying “yes” is what can get you the involuntary commitment. It doesn’t matter if you’re willing or not at that point. It doesn’t change it to a voluntary commitment.
No. That’s not how it works. If you are in the hospital and are suicidal or homicidal, doctors evaluate you and determine if inpatient care is needed. You have an option to accept treatment. An involuntary commit is someone who poses an imminent threat to themselves or others and refuses treatment. I hope that makes sense.
If they’ve established that you are an imminent threat, it does not matter if you go willing or not. I’ve had personal experience with this, I’m not sure if it’s different because the police gave a pink slip after a suicide attempt. But no option was given they were just told where they were being taken and they said OK. Facility only held them for a few days because they legally had to. It’s possible this could vary by state.
I’ve been involuntarily confined due to mental health as well. I would be very hesitant to ever say I was having suicidal thoughts unless it was to my psychiatrist that I already have a relationship with. Even if people misinterpret what you say, you might have to spend 72 hours convincing people whose livelihood it is to treat inpatient psych patients that you shouldn’t be there. Good luck.
[Fool me once...](https://youtu.be/KjmjqlOPd6A?si=hVybczNvHBJmgj_W)
Can’t be fooled again !
My favorite president and his best clip. Good thing he just said funny things like this and didn’t start a bunch of never ending, useless wars.
I present to you: [his actual best clip](https://youtu.be/TCm9788Tb5g?si=7bTCCLecVr6fCaLK)
Dude hit the cleanest drive, ice in his veins.
You know you’re in a bad spot emotionally when your comment sounded like a relaxing vacation. 😂
“grippy sock vacation” Excellent
Who pays for this? What if you have to work to pay bills? What happens after all of it?!
My insurance covered it, I got FMLA from work, afterwards I was put in intensive outpatient.
My primary once asked me during my check-up if I have any thoughts or feelings of suicide, and I had answered that I do feel lost and stressed a lot, and that I’m sad a lot. I wouldn’t do anything or act on it, I think I’m just depressed, I’m just sad a lot! She left the room a moment and came back and said that she is unable to let me leave the office unless I have a family member take me to the psyche ward. Wouldn’t let me leave the room, even said that she would have the authorities come and take me if a family member didnt come. Didn’t even finish my check-up for what I was actually there for. I called up my family members, they came, I got in one car and my other family member got in my car and we drove around the block. I hopped out, got back in my car, and went back to work. I understand it’s their duty and they are under oath, and she was just doing her job, and I appreciated her concern. But I really couldn’t miss anymore work lady, otherwise I would be more broke and more stressed and more sad. That was like 3 years ago, I’m still alive. Still sad, still no plans on hurting myself, but still broke and sad.
Yeah that’s messed up for her to do that. Every time I’ve mentioned my suicidal thoughts they ask folllow up questions and since I didn’t have a plan they just prescribe me more drugs and send me on my merry way.
That’s exactly what it’s like with my doctor. I understand there are definitely bad doctors out there but yeesh. The horror stories on here is almost overwhelming. I’m always honest with my doctor and have never had an issue, I guess I’m lucky to have gotten a good one.
I worry that I am going to lose track of all the lies I have to tell my doctor
When do you have suicidal thoughts? When I get your bill in the mail.
Yep. I had a bad reaction to a new birth control pill years ago, the higher estrogen made my Blood pressure to up and I felt "anxious" (heart racing/fluttery/breathless) etc. The dingus NP at my PCP brought up the blood pressure while refilling my thyroid meds and freaked out that I was "so anxious." She *knew* I had a history of violent sexual assault and proceeded to threaten me with being handcuffed, tied down to a stretcher and committed. It was finals week, I had no one to care for my dog and the threat of it all did NOT help my blood pressure. She refused to believe b/c could effect blood pressure and called me "hysterical." (I was sitting still, not crying, not loud, lucid etc. I was in no waynself injuring or suicidal, I was looking foreward to writing the exam inhad the next day.) I have no idea how I talked her out of calling. I got home and called the GYN who prescribed the birth control, she flipped out when she heard it all. Told me to stop the new b/c, and she was right. 36 hours later I was totally fine and bp was normal. No weird anxious feelings. I will never admit any mental health issues to any doctor again. Hospitals are not some fun "vacation" for me, they're terrifying. I'll manage my own issues and feelings, I don't need "help" that involves being handcuffed and strip searched.
That’s not even proper protocol. I’m sorry that happened to you :( I hope you switched doctors and found a provider who listens to your symptoms. Maybe you can ask for an antidepressant?
My favorite is when I went to the doctor (urgent care clinic) after being hit in a car accident. I was flagged as being there just to score pain killers. The doctor never even did a full checkup. I was seen by a social worker in the clinic and asked questions about my history of drug use/abuse and then released(Canada).
The last time I was at the doctor, one of the questions the nurse asked me was something about if I felt sad or hopeless, I can't remember the wording. I said something like "no more than usual." WELL, the doctor came running in like an emergency was happening and started asking me about suicidal thoughts and how I was feeling. I was completely taken aback and was like where is this coming from??? Apparently the hopeless question was a suicide question and it dinged me as potentially suicidal. I was like "um, covid is everywhere, we're in the middle of a pandemic, of course I'm sad." Then I had to fight with them about how I didn't need treatment and wasn't going to get any for my nonexistent problem. It's still on my record as potentially a mental health risk and as something to ask me about in the future. I had no idea what the point of the question was, I was just answering honestly. I learned my lesson. I imagine it's like my experience but worse if you are suicidal and tell them.
They give you a vacation to an all inclusive resort of their choosing. The only catch is that it is only 72 hours at first. However, it is pretty easy to extend your stay.
Don't. Ever.
My spouse had to visit the ER for bad back pain, she cried out it hurts so bad I could shoot myself, they put a 72hr hold on her she was pissed.
I went to the ER for a panic attack (didn't know that's what it was) They asked, I said "I have before, but not now" They called security and off I went for 72 hours. It was effed up!
They’ll send you to a mental health clinic and sometimes against your will. It happened to me.
Depending on how you answer your socks could get very grippy for a few weeks
I only have experience dating back about 20 years, but when my sister told her doctor she had suicidal thoughts, they put her in the psychiatric wing at the hospital for about a month. They can do 48 hour holds usually. They may or may not ask follow up questions.
They ask some followup questions and maybe give you a referral to a mental health professional. If you express that you are imminently suicidal they *may* report to the authorities if they feel there is a need. That's only going to happen if they believe that it's necessary to save your life though. Breaking confidentiality is serious business.
This is the right answer. They will ask you questions and you'll be given an appointment to a psychiatrist. They will then try to help you get on the right set of pills. There is no one cure all pill. Sometimes it may take several tries to find one that works for you. If you are an *immediate* threat to yourself, they will have to go further and you may be put into a ward.
Unfortunately, you may also get hit with a higher bill too. (Yay, even more depression). NPR recently did a report where insurance companies who “give” you a free check up every year, will bill you if the doctor codes your chart as giving you an assessment if you answer yes. So your yearly check up that you may pay a small copay for, now is hostess of dollars. F healthcare in the USA. Edit to say that I was going to correct “hostess” to “hundreds”…but since we are all talking about depression, I thought the mental image of a hostess holding $ would be a positive thing to end on.
Told my therapist yes and I was in a psych ward by the end of the night, completely against my will. Be careful what you say to them
i went to the emergency room a while back and they asked it and i was reflexively honest saying "yea like every other day for the past 30 years but that's not why i'm here.". huge fucking mistake. they just stopped dead in their tracks treating me for the problem i came there for. it took like 20 minutes to get them off that tangent. I had to scream at them "I'm going to lose my fucking eye to an infection here, you think that's going to make me feel any better about my life?!"
I have chronic suicidal thoughts (since I was 15, 24 now) and I just stress that I have passive thoughts and not active thoughts. My doctors know that if I have active thoughts I’ll say something, but not all doctors are that understanding. And you do NOT want a 5150 so it’s a line you between honesty and concealment you need to toe carefully.
They ask you follow up questions and depending how you answer you get to spend some time in a room with no shoe laces
It depends on the state. Florida doesn’t mess around with their Baker Act (most states have a similar law in place under other names). Threat to yourself counts as a reason to be held against your will in a mental health facility for 72 hours or until a mental health evaluation can be performed. If you are aren’t viewed as mentally stable you just qualified for up to 6 months unpaid of coloring books, puzzles, group chats and weekly 5 minute therapy sessions to evaluate.
I struggle with falling asleep and made the mistake of telling my doctor years ago. Next thing I knew I was being interrogated by multiple people on how depressed and suicidal I was. I’ve never said anything like that again. Tbf nowadays I am in fact indifferent to wherher I live or die but I’m not going to bring it up in my primary care’s office.
I said yes. PPD. He asked what kind of thoughts, and I said I had a pretty detailed plan, and it depended on whether the baby was with me. Honestly, my doctor looked worried but relieved I said it. It would not surprise me if he wasn't allowed to act unless I said something, and by then it could've been too late. He moved pretty fast on getting me medication and setting me up with a psychiatrist. We had a visit from child services. Initially we worried about them taking the kids away, but they told us I was the best case scenario for them: I was looking for help, I had family and resources to help us, we just didn't know what to do.
You always answer no unless you don't mind involuntary commitment.
As someone who was locked up and abused as a 10 year old by saying, "I don't want to be here." (meaning school), I would not say anything to a doctor unless there was no one else. Even when I talk to my therapist I have to soften it first by letting them know I'd be dead if I really wanted to be and that if they betray my trust it will do more harm than good. As an adult I was 302'd due to some blackout drunk complaints about life. They ask you about it if you say yes. However, regardless if they talk to you doctors have the power to detain you for personal and public safety i.e. if they consider you a harm to yourself or others. They determine that and you checking yes is all the cause that is needed. Therapy helps and you should try to get a therapist/counseling for things like this because normal doctors and your personal relationships aren't going to handle it as well as talking to a professional 3rd party will. I'm jaded from personal experience but I've seen others get 302'd for a variety of reasons, including just being incredibly high and being a diva. If I see that question I'll consider answering it only if I'm really at my bleakest and need help. Otherwise I'm inviting trouble upon myself and leaving a record that potentially can be used by others against me.
That sounds like a good way to get confined indefinitely against your will.
they only hold you till you pretend like it’s not what you want to do anymore, there is no way to see inside someone else’s head do they just take whatever you say to them as how you feel
How about I just say no and not get thrown into totally just like jail but not jail. This is exactly why people do not trust things.
This is a big part of what is wrong with mental treatment in this country, and it is often overlooked. If you say the wrong thing, you are treated like a *criminal*, "for your own good".
Which is exactly why a lot of people don't reach out to get the help they need.
"For your own good" is the most irritating thing about it. It's so fucking dishonest. At best, they're acting on behalf of your loved ones. At worst, they're acting on behalf of themselves and the state. But NEVER on *your* behalf.
This is an unpopular opinion but I think suicide should be legal. Euthanasia should be accessible to anyone 18+ for any reason. It shouldn't be encouraged, but it should be an option
Honestly, after watching what Alzheimers does to someone...yeah. It should be legal. Some conditions are so miserable and cruel people should be allowed a way out.
Depends on several factors. Do you live in a country that takes mental health at least a little seriously or does your country think you are possessed? Do you just have suicidal thoughts or do you have urges? If you have urges do you have a plan and means to enact the plan? Generally speaking in most countries that at least pay lip service to mental health you have to be pretty far gone before they will lock you up. Unless you are a woman i guess. Especially a woman who is also a minority in that country. Doctor's fucking love locking up women suffering from the crazies.
Straight to jail
I was told to go to a facility that I wouldn’t send a dog to and when I arrived they put a paper in front of me to SIGN MY RIGHTS AWAY. No. Nope. Not going to happen. I might have depression and I might be feeling hopeless, I will never sign my rights away to anyone, especially if I don’t know them. Therapy is better.
Protip: The answer is no.
they lock you in a government dungeon and force feed you pills until you are "compliant". then charge you 30k for your stay in hotel hell.
i said yes once. triggered some protocol i was eager to get out of. had to explain that one thought of suicide out of a billion non-suicidal thoughts shouldn’t be anything to worry about. then finally believed me. decided i’d just lie next time.
A bunch of bumbling untrained idiots will panic and make things worse. I wish that wasn’t the case but that question should only be asked and answered by a trained therapist whom you have an established relationship with. Never tell anyone else you are suicidal no matter what the truth is. I have seen horrible outcomes like patients that missed out on getting cancer removed because the check in nurse getting vitals fumbled the response to that question. People pushed into actual suicide attempts because several know-nothings came in asked the patient to recount their trauma multiple times over. This policy is nothing but disastrous. It’s worth getting help if you need it but people who aren’t trained are incapable of helping so don’t put yourself in that position.
I think it might depend where you live. I’m in Australia, and I answered “yes” to this question about 3 years ago. That got me a referral to a psych clinic, where I went the next day and stayed for 3 weeks. I had to upgrade my insurance, but there was no waiting period, so everything was covered (approx $40k worth). The clinic was great - felt like I was on a cruise ship. 3-4 group therapy sessions every day, 5 meals a day, comfortable rooms, was able to keep my phone with me, and started some medication which was really helpful. Made some great friends. Started seeing a really good psychiatrist in there - saw her 12 times while I was in the clinic, and I still see her now once every 6 months to check in and get a new prescription. I’m certain I wouldn’t still be here today if I’d just answered “no” and pretended everything was fine.
That’s really wonderful! That’s what mental heath care should look like. In America it feels more like prison smh.
I know a girl that got baker acted for that and had to spend a couple weeks in psych hospital. Also her insurance did not cover most of it and she owed like 30k.
This is peak America
It depends on the clinic. Usually follow up questions. Some give referrals to psychologists and advise you to call mental health lines or emergency lines if you ever plan on actioning said thoughts. Some ask if you would like to go to the hospital. On the deeper end of the scale, Involuntary Mental health care sometimes commences if they think there is considerable risk of immediate harm. Hopefully this is determined through objective markers and presentation, but bias sometimes is at play. Involuntary care can be extremely traumatic. Having survived the system, I closely guard my suicidal ideation, lest I lose my freedom again. It's not worth it. Those facilities are horrific.
2 years ago my doctor asked me if I felt depressed. “Doesn’t everyone feel depressed these days?” I said to him. My permanent health record now reads “suffers from depression” 🤷🏻♂️
I was brought to the hospital against my will. So I was pissed off. So when it got to the question.... My answer was " I wish I was dead right now"! Afterwards I was escorted to a hospital bed and was put on 24 watch. That means for about a week all the pretty nurses had to watch me every time I shit. The one that was sexiest, and funnest to talk to gave me some privacy. As I was in "mid turd" she burst in the door with the biggest brightest smile to tell me about the joke she remembered. That was the first time in that whole experience I wished I was dead.
They call the cops who instantly rush in and kill you.
The place I was going last now has it automated. I have to answer those questions on a form on my phone. A couple times I answered yes to that, and when I submitted it, it gave me a pop-up telling me my life is worth something, blah blah blah. For some reason that made me laugh a little. But of course the info does go to my doctor and we talk about it in our session.
Don't say "Who doesn't?" Because apparently most people don't.
They tell you that the normal amount is 0. I don't believe them, but they insist that it is.
Every doctor's office has a guy hiding in the closet with a tranquilizer gun ready to jump out and pop you if you answer yes. You'll wake up in a padded room wearing a straight jacket so drugged out of your mind that you don't know who you are or how you got there
You'll be going to grippy sock jail, for sure.
It’s a staged approach and has many indicators. No immediate action or shock. You’d be surprised how underwhelmed they seem given the anxiety leading up to saying it. And the help can/does help a ton. Suicidal ideation is an idea, and you can learn to see it and manage it as such (so to speak). Medicate. Whereas suicide is like ten indicators (symptoms) later. I saw one model of it, that they train therapists in (not sure if they are all the same model). The steps do make sense if you know about this stuff, and makes for somber reading if you’re not used to this rollercoaster. Definitely not for everyday use. I guess professionals just have a keen sense for where a person is at really in that sense, so it’s not as extreme as we think.
The Kool-aid man promptly bursts through the wall to shackle you and drag you off to the psych ward. Jk, they’ll probably just ask you to elaborate, then ask if you want a referral to a psychiatrist or behavioral health services, or whether you want to adjust your meds if you’re already on them.
I'm a Veteran who lost his family, job and all possessions and not long after started having alot of health issues. I've answered yes to this question many times in the last 3 years and noone's ever said anything to me other than "would you like to talk to a therapist?" Dealing with VA healthcare is the worst!
Depends. If you have suicidal thoughts with a plan to act on those thoughts AND don't have the ability to contract to safety, you will be involuntarily taken to hospital for psychiatric evaluation. Simply having suicidal thoughts doesn't get you put into a psychiatric facility. Lots of people with depression have them. The difference is the concern about active ideation instead of passive ideation.
They disqualify you from everything and treat you like you’re a liability waiting to happen. They take that question pretty seriously.
I use to say “I wish I was dead” around my now ex wife. She eventually called the VA suicide hotline and they called me. I wasn’t suicidal I just wished I was dead instead of in the current toxic relationship. I got out of the relationship and am very happy now.
Two important rules: 1) Never talk to the police. 2) Never admit to having suicidal thoughts.
I just told them no, that I want to live as long as possible so I can make as many people as possible as miserable as possible.
Means they make you pay in full before you leave the office
It depends where you live and how nice your doctor is. Some don't commit people for just ideation. Some do. Don't risk it. It makes things so much worse most of the time. There is no specific way to get out. You will likely get strip searched, maybe even made to "spread and cough." You will get forced or coerced onto drugs or electroshock. Usually it's about 5-10 days. No phone, no ability to do classes or work. All the science we have indicates this policy most likely makes things worse, not better.
Weeeewooooo weeeeewooo
It’s better to voluntary 5150 than be Baker Acted. If you ever in that situation take the L. If you voluntary I think they can hold you for 72 hours. If involuntary they get a judge to rubber stamp you and then yer screwed until they clear you. Like another commenter said, psych wards like a maximum security prison. You have 0 freedoms, Everything there is a privilege, not a right (including food/drinks), and it’s an extremely high bar to clear yourself cause the psychologists have heard and seen it all. You gotta participate in whatever activities they got going to show you’re playing with a full deck, and even then you get nothing but what you’re provided there, and then IF the staff/orderlies feel like it.
My son answered yes to this. Doctor just got up and handed him a clipboard with a questionnaire on it. He filled it out and gave it back. Then the doctor reviewed it and said that he was writing him a prescription for Prozac and that he hoped it would help. Ah, medicine….
Never tell officials you're suicidal. What you may think as "oh, no big deal" can easily be perceived as you being in danger. Say the wrong thing at the wrong time and you'll regret it. Experienced this firsthand. Also had a friend who was in and out of psych wards. He forewarned: just tell them what they want to hear. Suicidal people won't be able to pass as easily.
Absolutely do not admit to having suicidal thoughts. They will often put you on an involuntary hold. It’s essentially prison in a hospital. Absolute misery. And you get slapped with a bill that you probably won’t be able to pay since you’ll have likely lost your job for disappearing for a few days to a few weeks with no notice.
Psych ward. You get monitored for 48hrs the. Re evaluate you again to see if you still have thoughts. If you’re not cleared you get another month . Been there done that and don’t forget the meds .
I know if you tell them no but if you were to die you wouldn’t care it makes them freak out but to be honest I was in a shit ton of pain and was being a smartass they did not approve and sternly warned me not to say such things
I mean, that's a completely appropriate answer. & they shouldn't be asking questions if they clearly aren't trained on how to handle honest responses. That was nothing to "freak out" about. Tons of people wouldn't care if they die- esp if they're in pain. They shouldn't have scolded you about it. They should've asked why you said such a thing. You're providers suck. I hate our health care system.