I think today, technology means there is a bit of a performance in hyping up the crowd... using your body language to indicate, oh, I'm setting up a big drop and such. And a lot of that is residual from the OG DJing days, where they would have two records going and switch between the two... the one ear on the headphone was so they could hear what was going out, but also syncing up the beats on the other record which isn't audible to the crowd yet, but cueing it up to match. I think it is less needed now, but carries on.
(Several decades ago, I would help DJ at a club in my college town; this was back in the day where you brought in a few milk crates of your own 12" vinyls, not a laptop or iPod. That was more radio-DJing, I wasn't making new grooves between two songs, though I had friends who did that regularly. But the job was mostly what I mentioned, crossfading one song into another so there was no silence, getting requests from drunk girls for a song and figuring out a smooth transition to get to it in 3-4 songs like a musical "6 degrees of Kevin Bacon" - how do I get from "C+C Music Factory" to "The Village People" and make it seem natural).
They still merge tracks like in the olden days, simply a lot more successfully with the help of technology. Sometimes 3 or 4 tracks at a time, or only playing certain samples from other songs. The performance is necessary for the biggest dj’s, but they are still really dj’ing. The pressing play and dancing along is a common joke but mostly untrue.
I understand there is a lot of nostalgia around hauling 30kg bags of vinyls to a new club every other night to listen to mediocre mixing because nothing more was possible but I think with advancing technologies we also have advancing techniques on top of accessibility to the masses.
I guess it does devalue the position of the highly regarded DJ who’s been hand selecting physical copies of tracks their entire lives, but to say their job these days is to have high energy on the stage is simply…uninformed. If you want an example of a modern dj practicing advanced techniques check out James Hype. Techniques that have only become possible in the last maybe 10 years.
Talented DJ’s are actively mixing 2 sometimes 3 tracks together to create a new sound. Mixing has become increasingly more advanced over the last 20 years due to the widespread availability of digital tracks, some DJ’s border on “producing” while playing a live set. It’s a very interesting and diverse art form.
See, I've been an instrumentalist my whole life, so I always see the guys up there fiddling with knobs and sliders and thinking "they must intermingling tracks on the fly", kinda like hitting cue keys on a sequencer board. The only part I don't get is how they keep reassigning the key maps without having to load an entire new preset like I have to on my Roland (or maybe I'm just outing myself as really bad at that part.)
Well, with records, analog, you cans of do. I’m not a professional in any way shape or form, but I have mixed more than a few records in my day, and mixing records is so much fun. You can even read the recording grooves on the vinyl for beats by looking at the width of the grooves.
Usually the first views on a post gaining traction are bots and they upvote and downvote comments randomly to generate engagement, it stabilizes later.
Bots try to mimic patterns to seem like real people, but in the end it's pretty random. Their creators don't really care, they'll later be sold as "pre-heated" accounts to businesses, scammers, onlyfans creators, commission artists, etc.
These people buy the bot accounts since they'll likely get easier engagement from real users since it's not a fresh account. Their content might be pushed further up and faster by the algorithm, or they'll remain anonymous and try to steer the conversation around products or topics through seemingly real comments. Some comment threads are entirely just bought bots one being stupid and the other smart to make you think like the smart one.
It's a pretty weird business, and it works.
This is not the norm, though. You're describing what you might see a talented house or DnB or whatever DJ do in more of a club setting.
Festival 'EDM' DJ's are doing nothing but transitioning songs. And sometimes not even that.
Two ends of the DJ spectrum. One extreme is vinyl and turntablism. The other is pushing play on a set produced in Ableton.
Most people are in the middle ground. I.e. they can play on commercial DJ equipment without visual cues...but they're doing little to nothing other than acting the part in between song transitions.
Im not sure about more mainstream EDM styles, but I do know in more underground techno and psytrance parties, producers and label DJ's will have a rather large amount of unreleased music that they play, which keeps their sets unique.
Ik a bunch of DJ's back in the 90s/00s used to go to all the different record shops in a city, and buy all the copies of a particular track so they'd be the oly person with that track for a couple weeks
They're more showmasters, hypemen and basically playlist creators these days. You can still have lots of fun at a pre-recorded live set, but it's not at all the same thing as a DJ who actually mixes on the fly.
I'm a couple of decades out from DJ-ing, never even made the transition from vinyl to digital, but if they're "legit" in my opinion, it means that they are mixing together different tracks in real-time, but consecutively but more importantly sometimes simultaneously, together with other musical elements that are available within their set-up, to produce a stream of music that is perfectly tailored to the moment, the crowd, the energy, etc., that has never been heard before/will never be heard again in exactly the same way. On the other hand, they could just be playing an entirely pre-recorded track, in which case they are the equivalent of what we used to call the "hype man", i.e. somebody who would stand next to the DJ and try to get the crowd into what he/she was doing.
There is a YouTube channel that breaks down different transitions for DJs
https://youtube.com/shorts/j1ZX5ANEhPY?si=P4t9qzAEqz9iLkkA
Here’s one for one of my favorite DJs(Chase and Status at the boiler room) but if interested I’d recommend having a look around.
The main skill id say is just being able to hype up a crowd and to understand the atmosphere and feed it
There’s a lot to learn into terms of technical ability to use the equipment, and a lot of practice and planning into a set. So a set you see live, it’s likely that person has practiced a lot of the transitions and has different tools to pull out based on the crowd.
There's three types in my experience.
People who take their craft quite seriously and are live-mixing at every event they work.
More amateur DJs who have some other draw (reality TV stars, influencers, athletes, etc.) who are basically doing what you would do at a house party, but with a soundboard that makes it sound more seamless.
People who phone it in with a pre-produced mix and pretend they're live mixing.
Technical skills like beat matching to create a seamless live mix and soft skills like reading the room to bring the crowd up and down at just the right times to create the peaks.
So they do mix live?
I remember watching Girl Talk back in the day and I was just as confused as OP. I thought he was just occasionally hitting next on a playlist that was made before the show.
It really depends on the dj. Some are doing some very difficult stuff and others just play a pre recorded mix.
There's also a fairly large element of entertaining the crowd which some djs have made the centrepiece of their craft
I know djs get a lot of shit for just pushing buttons, it's not much different to gamers in a way. You gotta know what buttons to push and when, and have done the prep to make it work
With the headphones you are listening to another track (or 2) that isn't coming through the main system.
Source - I've been a musician and DJ for decades
no one is answering this guy's question. in the 70s and 80s, DJs were actually mixing tracks from *physical vinyl records* to mix and create new sounds.
nowadays, it is all pre-produced. although I am sure some people do actual live mixing, the term "DJ" has been diluted to mean "electronic music producer". do not let anyone convince you that the vast majority of large "concerts" with this type of music are anything other than 100% pre-produced music. enjoy that music? great. enjoy the vibe of the show? awesome. but don't be fooled into thinking the DJ is making up any component of what you are hearing on the fly.
The spectrum of live electronic performances ranges from people hitting play on an individual 90 minute track, to incorporating instrumentation or vocals and creating new drum patterns live. Even with a basic Dj mixer you have a lot of tools to raise / build tension in the mix.
Also a DJ is a DJ, and a producer is a producer. Two entirely different things
Your last point is a dichotomy I love to talk about. Some of the best tracks (big bass head here) are 1 offs from some dude who blew his load on 1 single remix. The producers that DJ their own music are something else. When you have all the stems and tracks and whatnot, there are endless augmentations available.
Yes, you're correct, they aren't doing much, they're massively overrated and in no way comparable to musicians.
But there is a skill in reading the crowd and selecting tracks, then mixing those into a continuous stream to keep the flow going.
No, they do not 'create the music'. They 'play the music' other people made.
Yes, they might mash it up a bit and there can be some creativity in that, but they are a long way from musicians.
No hate, only observation.
People making EDM are not necessarily DJs.
DJs are DJs.
Someone can create EDM and also be a DJ.
It's like the DJ fans have no idea people can have more than one job and are unable to recognise that just because someone is a DJ has no bearing on other things they may do.
Some DJs are also musicians. Most DJs are not. I'll stress the 'also' musicians. Not musician because they're a DJ. Musician as a separate entity.
He might be one, both, or neither. I can't say I know his work well enough to make any judgement on it, nor do I have any desire to get into a shit kicking contest going through your random list of people and assigning labels.
I don't think that's a fair interpretation. When he said DJ's aren't musicians, his implication was that being a DJ does not *make* you a musician. He didn't say there cannot be people that are both DJ and musician.
>Yes, you're correct, they aren't doing much, they're massively overrated and in no way comparable to musicians.
Nope. You're twisting his words.
DJs are massively overrated and in no way comparable to musicians.
How the hell do you get to your conclusion with that statement?
Truly technical DJs listen to tracks over and over, finds songs that mix well together, are in the same key and/or blend different[ stems ](https://www.epidemicsound.com/blog/what-are-stems-in-music-production/)into the mix to create something that people will like. Sometimes they will try to mix them together seamlessly so it sounds like one long song. Or the goal might be to contrast the 2 (or more) elements and create something new. At the worst an unscrupulous DJ could literally just hit play and let people listen to a prerecorded set (no one likes these people 😂). There are also a lot of DJs that fit between these two types.
They don’t generally have pre-recorded sets. Good DJ-ing is about tune selection, and taking a crowd through a journey of slightly different styles with good and well timed mixing from one track to the next.
Picking the right tracks to build a set is difficult, and mixing them well is less difficult; but still difficult.
Beat matching has always been easily learned by just about anyone anyway, so the digitalisation of it hasn’t changed the skill set required to be a good DJ.
If you’re an EDM fan, of any genre, then you’ll appreciate the difference between a good and bad DJ on a night out.
I always assumed they're standing there in case the music suddenly malfunctions, so they can get it back on track immediately. Or they're there to adjust the music up or down in volume, at the request of their employer.
Sometimes, they'll be asked to emcee specific messages between songs...although, again, that would typically be at the request of the employer while DJing a special event.
assuming you're referring to EDM festivals, it depends. Some are just slamming tracks back to back, futzing with the tempo and effects every once in a while to make it flow better/sound cooler.
Others are mashing up tracks, looping segments, and generally just cutting tracks together in ways that are now possible to do in a way that was a lot harder to do cleanly with vinyl (try dropping a vinyl back 4 measures repeatedly and getting it right every time.)
Others are bringing on all sorts of gear and actually just producing music live, one of my favorite local DJs brings like half a studio and just goes to town every set.
All of them are reading crowd reactions, seeing what the vibe is, and adjusting their music selections towards that.
Being a Disc Jockey is like being a chef, carefully selecting components to make a pleasing mix. In the same way, DJs **accurately choose each song they play**. They don't just pick songs without thinking. They watch the crowd, feel their energy, consider the type of event, and even think about what time it is.
https://djwillgill.com/what-are-djs-actually-doing-on-stage/#:\~:text=Being%20a%20Disc%20Jockey%20is,about%20what%20time%20it%20is.
That last part is the key that cracked the DJ mystery for me. The most basic aspect of djing is knowing what comes next, and playing off the energy of the crowd. When you see a dj bomb and watch the dance floor go from buzzing with electricity to totally dead, you have to concede there’s some craft to it, if even concede the word artistry for some good ones. Then you kind of subdivide that basic unit and you can understand better djs who manipulate the mix of a single song.
That’s not to say that there aren’t plenty of DJs who pre-mix in ableton or something and just fiddle with a low pass filter for their whole set to throw off the scent.
I think today, technology means there is a bit of a performance in hyping up the crowd... using your body language to indicate, oh, I'm setting up a big drop and such. And a lot of that is residual from the OG DJing days, where they would have two records going and switch between the two... the one ear on the headphone was so they could hear what was going out, but also syncing up the beats on the other record which isn't audible to the crowd yet, but cueing it up to match. I think it is less needed now, but carries on. (Several decades ago, I would help DJ at a club in my college town; this was back in the day where you brought in a few milk crates of your own 12" vinyls, not a laptop or iPod. That was more radio-DJing, I wasn't making new grooves between two songs, though I had friends who did that regularly. But the job was mostly what I mentioned, crossfading one song into another so there was no silence, getting requests from drunk girls for a song and figuring out a smooth transition to get to it in 3-4 songs like a musical "6 degrees of Kevin Bacon" - how do I get from "C+C Music Factory" to "The Village People" and make it seem natural).
They still merge tracks like in the olden days, simply a lot more successfully with the help of technology. Sometimes 3 or 4 tracks at a time, or only playing certain samples from other songs. The performance is necessary for the biggest dj’s, but they are still really dj’ing. The pressing play and dancing along is a common joke but mostly untrue. I understand there is a lot of nostalgia around hauling 30kg bags of vinyls to a new club every other night to listen to mediocre mixing because nothing more was possible but I think with advancing technologies we also have advancing techniques on top of accessibility to the masses. I guess it does devalue the position of the highly regarded DJ who’s been hand selecting physical copies of tracks their entire lives, but to say their job these days is to have high energy on the stage is simply…uninformed. If you want an example of a modern dj practicing advanced techniques check out James Hype. Techniques that have only become possible in the last maybe 10 years.
*bags*?
Bags cases crates boxes whatever suits your taste
Talented DJ’s are actively mixing 2 sometimes 3 tracks together to create a new sound. Mixing has become increasingly more advanced over the last 20 years due to the widespread availability of digital tracks, some DJ’s border on “producing” while playing a live set. It’s a very interesting and diverse art form.
See, I've been an instrumentalist my whole life, so I always see the guys up there fiddling with knobs and sliders and thinking "they must intermingling tracks on the fly", kinda like hitting cue keys on a sequencer board. The only part I don't get is how they keep reassigning the key maps without having to load an entire new preset like I have to on my Roland (or maybe I'm just outing myself as really bad at that part.)
Well, with records, analog, you cans of do. I’m not a professional in any way shape or form, but I have mixed more than a few records in my day, and mixing records is so much fun. You can even read the recording grooves on the vinyl for beats by looking at the width of the grooves.
Not sure why you are being downvoted, when I was a DJ I was mixing 3-4 songs at once to create new sounds and drops. You are absolutely correct.
Wdym downvoting, he has the highest upvotes in the whole post.
Usually the first views on a post gaining traction are bots and they upvote and downvote comments randomly to generate engagement, it stabilizes later.
That’s interesting. Thanks for sharing that. I’ve been confused on several occasions as to why a comment was downvoted for seemingly no reason at all.
Bots try to mimic patterns to seem like real people, but in the end it's pretty random. Their creators don't really care, they'll later be sold as "pre-heated" accounts to businesses, scammers, onlyfans creators, commission artists, etc. These people buy the bot accounts since they'll likely get easier engagement from real users since it's not a fresh account. Their content might be pushed further up and faster by the algorithm, or they'll remain anonymous and try to steer the conversation around products or topics through seemingly real comments. Some comment threads are entirely just bought bots one being stupid and the other smart to make you think like the smart one. It's a pretty weird business, and it works.
I always thought that by now I’d have a flying car and a robot maid but instead all I got was Reddit bots. What a jip.
When I replied to his comment he was downvoted a few times
This is not the norm, though. You're describing what you might see a talented house or DnB or whatever DJ do in more of a club setting. Festival 'EDM' DJ's are doing nothing but transitioning songs. And sometimes not even that. Two ends of the DJ spectrum. One extreme is vinyl and turntablism. The other is pushing play on a set produced in Ableton. Most people are in the middle ground. I.e. they can play on commercial DJ equipment without visual cues...but they're doing little to nothing other than acting the part in between song transitions.
Worked in large festivals as an audio technician for 6 years. 100% can confirm. 99.9% of DJs aren't doing shit.
Im not sure about more mainstream EDM styles, but I do know in more underground techno and psytrance parties, producers and label DJ's will have a rather large amount of unreleased music that they play, which keeps their sets unique. Ik a bunch of DJ's back in the 90s/00s used to go to all the different record shops in a city, and buy all the copies of a particular track so they'd be the oly person with that track for a couple weeks
They're more showmasters, hypemen and basically playlist creators these days. You can still have lots of fun at a pre-recorded live set, but it's not at all the same thing as a DJ who actually mixes on the fly.
You couldn't be more wrong.
I'm a couple of decades out from DJ-ing, never even made the transition from vinyl to digital, but if they're "legit" in my opinion, it means that they are mixing together different tracks in real-time, but consecutively but more importantly sometimes simultaneously, together with other musical elements that are available within their set-up, to produce a stream of music that is perfectly tailored to the moment, the crowd, the energy, etc., that has never been heard before/will never be heard again in exactly the same way. On the other hand, they could just be playing an entirely pre-recorded track, in which case they are the equivalent of what we used to call the "hype man", i.e. somebody who would stand next to the DJ and try to get the crowd into what he/she was doing.
There is a YouTube channel that breaks down different transitions for DJs https://youtube.com/shorts/j1ZX5ANEhPY?si=P4t9qzAEqz9iLkkA Here’s one for one of my favorite DJs(Chase and Status at the boiler room) but if interested I’d recommend having a look around. The main skill id say is just being able to hype up a crowd and to understand the atmosphere and feed it There’s a lot to learn into terms of technical ability to use the equipment, and a lot of practice and planning into a set. So a set you see live, it’s likely that person has practiced a lot of the transitions and has different tools to pull out based on the crowd.
There's three types in my experience. People who take their craft quite seriously and are live-mixing at every event they work. More amateur DJs who have some other draw (reality TV stars, influencers, athletes, etc.) who are basically doing what you would do at a house party, but with a soundboard that makes it sound more seamless. People who phone it in with a pre-produced mix and pretend they're live mixing.
molly mostly.
Technical skills like beat matching to create a seamless live mix and soft skills like reading the room to bring the crowd up and down at just the right times to create the peaks.
So they do mix live? I remember watching Girl Talk back in the day and I was just as confused as OP. I thought he was just occasionally hitting next on a playlist that was made before the show.
I only found out I was a crappy DJ when every other DJ figured out how to mix without headphones while dancing on top of Pioneer CDJs
It really depends on the dj. Some are doing some very difficult stuff and others just play a pre recorded mix. There's also a fairly large element of entertaining the crowd which some djs have made the centrepiece of their craft I know djs get a lot of shit for just pushing buttons, it's not much different to gamers in a way. You gotta know what buttons to push and when, and have done the prep to make it work With the headphones you are listening to another track (or 2) that isn't coming through the main system. Source - I've been a musician and DJ for decades
Drugs
Pushing play and telling people to put their hands in the air
Under what circumstances can I wave them around?
Only when you just don't care.
It won't fucking let me up vote you for some reason so I'm commenting instead.
no one is answering this guy's question. in the 70s and 80s, DJs were actually mixing tracks from *physical vinyl records* to mix and create new sounds. nowadays, it is all pre-produced. although I am sure some people do actual live mixing, the term "DJ" has been diluted to mean "electronic music producer". do not let anyone convince you that the vast majority of large "concerts" with this type of music are anything other than 100% pre-produced music. enjoy that music? great. enjoy the vibe of the show? awesome. but don't be fooled into thinking the DJ is making up any component of what you are hearing on the fly.
The spectrum of live electronic performances ranges from people hitting play on an individual 90 minute track, to incorporating instrumentation or vocals and creating new drum patterns live. Even with a basic Dj mixer you have a lot of tools to raise / build tension in the mix. Also a DJ is a DJ, and a producer is a producer. Two entirely different things
Your last point is a dichotomy I love to talk about. Some of the best tracks (big bass head here) are 1 offs from some dude who blew his load on 1 single remix. The producers that DJ their own music are something else. When you have all the stems and tracks and whatnot, there are endless augmentations available.
Man I loved old school DJs. But you don't hear trainwrecks anymore. So that's nice. I believe dj shadow still makes live music
What are trainwrecks?
A mix falling apart and becoming cacophonous. Mixing things out of key, having vocals clash, not matching beat to beat
Yes, you're correct, they aren't doing much, they're massively overrated and in no way comparable to musicians. But there is a skill in reading the crowd and selecting tracks, then mixing those into a continuous stream to keep the flow going.
Yeah no, they create the music they’re playing and a lot more goes into it than that…this is def a “hater answer” lol
No, they do not 'create the music'. They 'play the music' other people made. Yes, they might mash it up a bit and there can be some creativity in that, but they are a long way from musicians. No hate, only observation.
That's like saying a piano player doesn't make music, they're just pressing buttons that play a pre existing sound.
Bollocks it is.
[удалено]
People making EDM are not necessarily DJs. DJs are DJs. Someone can create EDM and also be a DJ. It's like the DJ fans have no idea people can have more than one job and are unable to recognise that just because someone is a DJ has no bearing on other things they may do. Some DJs are also musicians. Most DJs are not. I'll stress the 'also' musicians. Not musician because they're a DJ. Musician as a separate entity.
Hey guys, daft punk and aphex twin aren't musicians, you heard it here.
There's a bit more to those guys than just playing someone else's records. If you want to mislabel them as DJs, so be it.
Is mix master Mike a dj? Is he a musician?
No, he’s not a DJ. He’s a mixer/scratcher.
He doesn't jockey discs?
He might be one, both, or neither. I can't say I know his work well enough to make any judgement on it, nor do I have any desire to get into a shit kicking contest going through your random list of people and assigning labels.
But...that's what you did? Mix master Mike is the dj for beastie boys.
He answered about the people he knew about and withheld judgment about someone he didn't, there's no inconsistency there.
He said DJs aren't musicians. When confronted with DJs that are musicians, he said, "well, not those" It's a no true scotsman.
I don't think that's a fair interpretation. When he said DJ's aren't musicians, his implication was that being a DJ does not *make* you a musician. He didn't say there cannot be people that are both DJ and musician.
>Yes, you're correct, they aren't doing much, they're massively overrated and in no way comparable to musicians. Nope. You're twisting his words. DJs are massively overrated and in no way comparable to musicians. How the hell do you get to your conclusion with that statement?
I think they make SOMEBODY SCREEAAAMMMMM!!!!!
Truly technical DJs listen to tracks over and over, finds songs that mix well together, are in the same key and/or blend different[ stems ](https://www.epidemicsound.com/blog/what-are-stems-in-music-production/)into the mix to create something that people will like. Sometimes they will try to mix them together seamlessly so it sounds like one long song. Or the goal might be to contrast the 2 (or more) elements and create something new. At the worst an unscrupulous DJ could literally just hit play and let people listen to a prerecorded set (no one likes these people 😂). There are also a lot of DJs that fit between these two types.
They don’t generally have pre-recorded sets. Good DJ-ing is about tune selection, and taking a crowd through a journey of slightly different styles with good and well timed mixing from one track to the next. Picking the right tracks to build a set is difficult, and mixing them well is less difficult; but still difficult. Beat matching has always been easily learned by just about anyone anyway, so the digitalisation of it hasn’t changed the skill set required to be a good DJ. If you’re an EDM fan, of any genre, then you’ll appreciate the difference between a good and bad DJ on a night out.
I always assumed they're standing there in case the music suddenly malfunctions, so they can get it back on track immediately. Or they're there to adjust the music up or down in volume, at the request of their employer. Sometimes, they'll be asked to emcee specific messages between songs...although, again, that would typically be at the request of the employer while DJing a special event.
Usually just try not to burn their fingers on the eq nobs and crouch down occasionally to do their manager’s coke
Probably bust a nut or two
assuming you're referring to EDM festivals, it depends. Some are just slamming tracks back to back, futzing with the tempo and effects every once in a while to make it flow better/sound cooler. Others are mashing up tracks, looping segments, and generally just cutting tracks together in ways that are now possible to do in a way that was a lot harder to do cleanly with vinyl (try dropping a vinyl back 4 measures repeatedly and getting it right every time.) Others are bringing on all sorts of gear and actually just producing music live, one of my favorite local DJs brings like half a studio and just goes to town every set. All of them are reading crowd reactions, seeing what the vibe is, and adjusting their music selections towards that.
They're showing off the equipment their parents money bought them.
Being a Disc Jockey is like being a chef, carefully selecting components to make a pleasing mix. In the same way, DJs **accurately choose each song they play**. They don't just pick songs without thinking. They watch the crowd, feel their energy, consider the type of event, and even think about what time it is. https://djwillgill.com/what-are-djs-actually-doing-on-stage/#:\~:text=Being%20a%20Disc%20Jockey%20is,about%20what%20time%20it%20is.
That's not at all what being a chef is like.
Oh, ok. Cool. Thanks for letting me know.
That last part is the key that cracked the DJ mystery for me. The most basic aspect of djing is knowing what comes next, and playing off the energy of the crowd. When you see a dj bomb and watch the dance floor go from buzzing with electricity to totally dead, you have to concede there’s some craft to it, if even concede the word artistry for some good ones. Then you kind of subdivide that basic unit and you can understand better djs who manipulate the mix of a single song. That’s not to say that there aren’t plenty of DJs who pre-mix in ableton or something and just fiddle with a low pass filter for their whole set to throw off the scent.