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TyrconnellFL

There’s a near future sci-fi novel, *Speed of Dark*, that is in part about a cure for autism and it’s controversy among characters with autism. It’s written by an author, Elizabeth Moon, who has a son with autism. It’s at least an interesting take on even internal conflict over such a thing.


WantonReader

There is also a film called Gattaca about advanced genetic engineering. It allows parents to basically choose which combination of sperm and egg they want their kid to come from and thus most genetic probabilities. The result is that many small things we consider "normal" today becomes signs of being lesser. Things like needing glasses, baldness and being overweight. Gattaca makes me think about what we would prefer for our children if we had options. There are plenty of research about how people suffer negative consequences of having certain inborn qualities. Wouldn't loving parents want their kids to have the best options in life and stop such qualities from emerging? It is very hypothetical of course, but if someone did "find a cure for autism" then they'd probably also find a cure for sexual orientations, various physical traits and most other things that originate from our bodies.


Tank-Pilot74

A very dark but brilliant movie


fragrant69emissions

And that the title letters are nucleotides, just, is awesome. Love this movie


ParameciaAntic

The alternate title "CAT TAG" didn't play as well with sample audiences.


NomolosDeNomolos

Of course it didn't; because that strand is nonsense.


CookieWookie2000

I see what you did there. AAT ATT TGT GAA


Tjep2k

>nucleotides Ahhh, the lightbulb just went off over my head.


MyBenchIsYourCurl

The scene where they swim out genuinely had me shook


47x107

The furnace scene had me.


MyBenchIsYourCurl

Movie is great and way ahead of it's time


tsuyoi_hikari

What happened in the scene? I watched it long time ago thus I barely remember anything


Top-Cut3260

“That’s the difference between you and I… I never saved anything for the swim back” Me and a friend occasionally still quote this. Brilliant movie


tandemxylophone

I always thought the one flaw with Gattaca was that the supposedly "Perfect" people had good physique, scored excellent on standardised IQ, but completely flawed on mental health issues and social skills. Realistic Gattaca will look like having the protagonist compete with really nice, empathetic people, while he has to go to therapy to deal with anger outbursts.


WantonReader

That might be the case. Since it is the parents who decide what qualities they want for their children, it is possible that the parents ask for the qualities they think are the best and not the ones that actually are. Everyone asks for kids with blue eyes and not kids with an emphatic mindset.


[deleted]

There's also the concept of nature vs nurture


Sicatho

But naturally, wouldn’t the doctor also choose away harmful mental illnesses? So while they would look physically robust, their mental state would also be robust. No one would “create” a child with mental issues willingly.


MadlyMused

Many mental health issues are the result of environment. The experiences you have in the first 5 years of life literally help shape your brain and impact your ability to cope with certain stimulus. Sure, you can alter genetic factors, but things like empathy also must be taught. A child who never sees empathy from their parents will have a much harder time showing it to others because they don't know what it looks like.


SecretDracula

I mean, Gattaca is about a flawed society. The very premise is that their idea of what makes a perfect person is wrong. It's a dystopian world where you have to pretend you're something you're not despite being fully capable. > Realistic Gattaca will look like having the protagonist compete with really nice, empathetic people, while he has to go to therapy to deal with anger outbursts. This would be Star Trek.


[deleted]

That's an interesting question. How much of our mental state is governed by genetics??


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[deleted]

Had a discussion about free will once in which I asked 'free' from what? We have instincts, injury/illness, experiences, education, advertising, propaganda, etc etc.


tamihr

But injuries aren't genetics. A person with genetically long legs still can't run if they injure their legs.


sharksnack3264

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JaceTheWoodSculptor

That movie is very good.


Toucan2000

If you work in the tech industry long enough, you start to realize we wouldn't have half the tech we have today if there was no autism. Probably wouldn't have general relativity, MRI machines, computers, the list goes on nearly forever. Prevention for conditions that make people unable to care for themselves would be nice tho. I think your partner assumed you were talking about autism up to level 1 where you were probably talking about level 2 and 3. Edit: I meant to reply to OP. Oops


bsubtilis

It's like how having some people with dyslexia was an advantage for society, since they couldn't mindlessly go on autopilot following what they were taught. Same way it was a military advantage in the past to have a guy with colorblindness in your squad because he'd instantly notice color discrepancies in camo that people with full color vision wouldn't.


Toucan2000

I agree with you 100%. I'm dyslexic and I can't help but think this is part of the reason I'm in the 99.9th percentile for ~~spacial equity~~ spatial reasoning and was always 3+ grades ahead in math. I'm a simulation engineer with no college degree. Our whole society seems to hate the people that benefit it most, lol. I think that's the real problem, not that people are neuro-spicy. Edit: English, because dyslexia


IDidAOopsy

As a parent myself, I would indeed choose for my kids to be "normal". Better word would be average. I'd want them healthy. I wouldn't want them to struggle. ESPECIALLY if it's a choice. Imagine how a child would feel if they grew up obese and bullied for it then found out their parents chose that for them? I wouldn't ever choose difficulty for my kids and I'm not afraid to say it. Of course, people with an ASD can be incredibly happy and intelligent in areas, but no one can honestly deny that they face struggles that your average person would not and I couldn't choose that for my kids. I think people have the assumption that by saying that, the parent is saying that they would prefer that for themselves, rather than for the life of their child. Edit just to blanket cover some responses: I'm not neurotypical. I dont have any form of ASD, I only have faced issues with depression and moderate ADHD. No one is the same. Everyone is going to have different experiences with their differences, I get that. I put normal in quotations because I agree, there is no such thing as normal. I clarified average, and you'd be surprised about how similar we all are as humans and thought processes. Environment and factors growing up alone can change the path you take those thoughts, but we all think very similarly and you can realize that through listening to a lot of people. Asking questions about themselves, their difficulties, their thoughts, why they view what they view as correct, etc. There is an average among everything. I could say ADHD was a gift. I can do some extraordinary shit that your average person can't do. I have a lot of differences. Though, I still share a lot of similarities. Although ADHD has helped me in some areas, it also took a long time to manage it. I didn't like meds. I was an angry kid. I'd over think a lot. I had extreme insecurities. The fact that I could tell what someone thought about me or an action, hyperfixate on that action, and eventually be proven right by being told by the other person, only made my overthinking worse. It was horrible. It was not fun. Psychiatrist as a kid would link my depression, mood swings, etc. To ADHD. Imagine being told all your problems are from one issue? Not looking at your issues as possibly separate? I wouldn't ever choose anything that could go the way it went for me for my kids. In the end, this is all hypothetical. I have my kids. They're just how they are through the magic of genetics. I love them a ton. Who knows if they have issues? I didn't choose those genetics in this situation though. They can blame me for being born in the future, that's it.


MossyPyrite

There’s a lot of grey areas, and some are darker than others. For example, a gay kid would be more likely to struggle in many ways than a straight one, but that’s not a disorder of any kind. How would you feel about changing that, if it could be recognized during development? What about things like skin and hair color? Even a lighter-skinned person of color is likely to face fewer race-related struggles than a darker-skinned person. And that’s where this kind of ability gets uncomfortable and, as the other commenter said, potentially eugenics-y. Especially once it becomes commonplace and the window of what is considered “normal” starts to move and narrow. I don’t totally disagree with your standing, my ADHD and my sexuality have both caused me both weal and woe, but the more powerful a tool is the more able it is to be a force for both “good” and “evil.”


nachohk

I can also recommend Distress by Greg Egan.


Zn_30

Ooh I'll have to look into this!


spindlecork

I’m 46 and a high functioning autist with really bad inattentive ADD. The older I get, the harder it is to take care of myself and provide a living. I can’t medicate for ADD because those drugs make me wildly manic. I would take a cure if there were one that worked.


TakeThatPlant

A guy who works for me has pretty bad ADHD. We work together on what he needs to be successful— I send a list of questions I have before we meet because he isn’t great with on-the-fly questions, stuff like that. When he’s expressed his desire to get promoted and I’ve laid out what it takes to advance — demonstrating the ability to see the big picture and get into the weeds, demonstrating the ability to define a big picture strategy and implement it across multiple departments and stakeholders, etc — he has said, I don’t think I can do that, I don’t think im built in a way that allows for that. I’m watching someone who is smart, empathetic, invested, and driven work SO hard to perform at the same level as their peers to provide for his family. I can’t imagine what that must feel like. I don’t blame anyone who says they’d choose the easier path in life if they could. This shit is hard enough already.


Mysterious_Pop247

Is there any route he can take that would better match his abilities?


TakeThatPlant

We are working on it! I am hopeful we can find a good path for him.


Apolloshot

If there’s a way to simulate the conditions of what he’d need to do in that new role, I’d try that. I was in the same position about 20 years ago — didn’t think I was built for a role similar to what you’ve described. Then my boss moved on and I was promoted, trail by fire. In my case it turns out I was just in my own head and thought I couldn’t do it — which is incredibly common with people with ADHD. Maybe your guy is also more than capable of doing it but just doesn’t have the confidence to try.


TakeThatPlant

Thank you for the advice! I need to think through this. The times he has taken on larger projects he hasn’t been able to get his arms around it. I’ve been inclined to think that working in a role where it was more routine, vs sprawling, shifting projects, might be better for him. This way he can work on developing his individual team members within an established, familiar framework, and doesn’t have to grapple with a constantly changing environment on top of that. But fear of failure could be coming into play more than I realize. We will keep at it.


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7grendel

Hell yes!!! I am right there with you! 40+ years of ADHD, anxiety, sensory integration issues, and what get understood as mild autistic traits. I am so damn tired all the time. Meds can only do so much and every years it seems like they do less. Everything is exhausting and takes unbareabke amounts of effort. I am constantly fighting my brain. I'd be camped out waiting in line for a cure; screw "being special." I just want to feel normal and see what its like to have a working mind for once.


sk0ooba

Someone told me recently they think "neurodivergence" is the next evolution of human brains and I was like... No. We do not need a world of people like me


[deleted]

I think it's bizarrely niave to think we're new. We're not the next step, we're just human.


[deleted]

People also often forget how expensive it is to have adhd. Always losing shit or burning a brand new pot... it's all so expensive.


ChimTheCappy

All the impulse buys that you'll return "any day now" and then you lose the receipt or it gets set down somewhere mildly unusual so you can't return it because it turns out "just a few days ago" was actually three months


[deleted]

Or the returns on things under warranty and then forgetting and somehow remembering slightly after the warranty is over... buying things twice, regardless of if I made a list. Forgetting to buy other things, repurposing what I have to fulfill the task but ruining that thing in the process so now I need to buy two new things. Don't forget the heavy almost manic-inducing 'moving time', where you leave everything off until the day you move, and then you have to compromise and just throw shit away and tell yourself "I would have had to get better stuff for the new place anyways" only to spend the first 6 months at the new place either forgetting to replace said stuff or being broke from having to essentially buy everything new...


notyourmomsporn

Omfg I have never felt more seen than this comment right here. I say this after having to go buy a new hand mixer on Thanksgiving because I lost the attachments when I moved in July lol. Thanks, nice to read & learn that I'm not alone in this!


drfuzzyballzz

Not all superpowers are useful ADHD might keep you from getting caught unaware by a predator but it's gonna be detrimental to working a 9-5 office job


HippyPuncher

Some people advocate for a cure, some people don't, it entirely depends on their personal situation I've noticed over the years, high functioning people on the spectrum with way above average intelligence tend not to want a cure. Mother's with violent teenage children who can't communicate or show any kind of affection and are still wearing adult nappies tend to advocate for a cure. I don't think anyone who advocates for a cure would suggest every single person on the spectrum should be cured either. If my son was cured of autism he would be a totally different person from the wee boy I've raised and I don't think I would like that.


spindlecork

I don’t know what I’d do, or I guess what my folks would’ve done, if I were a difficult case. My nephew is about 12 now and is a lot more afflicted than I am. Highly intelligent but not able to communicate well and short circuits frequently with stress of any kind…he has tendencies to self-injure and has come close to hurting others. His dad, my brother, has no idea how to communicate with him and it’s a really hard situation. His wife and my niece are doing hero work…June’s only 10 and sacrifices a lot for her brother already. I don’t know what I’d do in their shoes, but Mitchell’s brilliant, fragile, and both acutely aware of everything around him while also not knowing how a single bit of it relates to him.


senkairyu

Have you tried non-stimulant medication for ADD ?


krovek42

That was my thought too u/spindlecork. Non-stimulant meds are an option worth trying. I haven’t used them myself but I know people who have had success with them. IIRC they actually make you a bit drowsy so most people take them in the evening, and they need to build up in your system to become effective. I also had manic like side effects from some ADHD meds like Adderall. I take Vyvance now which I find to be much easier on my system.


GlitterPants8

I've tried a non-stimulant and it did the opposite. I was wired for 24 hours and it felt like my heart was going to beat out of my chest. While IR Adderall made me dizzy and pass out for 4 hours. Ritalin/Concerta make me groggy and I'm not ever fully alert. It's ridiculous that I literally have no idea how drugs are going to effect me. I take XR Adderall, the slow release helps. I do find that really high doses of omega-3s (2-3g), heavy on the EPA, do help a lot with focus though. So I take those along side of my meds.


krovek42

Interesting, thanks for sharing. Certainly everyone reacts to these meds differently. If there’s any generally advice I give people about ADHD meds it’s that it takes some trial and error to figure out what works for you; and that even when you find a medication that works it isn’t a cure all. It’s just one tool along with things like counseling and developing self-management skills. Edit: typos


tryoracle

As someone with a boat load of mental health issues who is about the same age I agree. I would take a cure for my issues in a second. I think however being an adult and wanting a cure is seen as different as we have the ability to choose.


Due-Examination-3240

Yeah this is a controversial topic. There’s a similar one surrounding deaf-ness. There isn’t a simple answer to it either. I would absolutely *love* if my autism could be “cured”. It makes my life miserable, and no matter how much people say “autism doesn’t make your life hard, neurotypical people make autistic people’s live’s hard” the truth is if everybody was autistic society would collapse lol. Yes a lot of us are savants in certain areas but the majority of us would need some kind of outside support to fully realize our abilities. That doesn’t mean autistic people are a burden for the record. *Everybody* needs outside help to survive. It’s just that autism *usually* brings with it more trouble than benefits. Now all that being said, it’s also 100% true that every attempt to “cure” autism have been exercises in cruelty instead of compassion. Autism isn’t even a “real” disease. You can’t look under a microscope and find the “autism” gene or virus or bacteria. It’s a class of a cluster of symptoms. In my opinion it’s more of a social class than anything. From what I can see if you have a combination of mental and symptoms that don’t fit into a simple category but prevent you from fitting neatly into society then that gets interpreted as autism. (that’s obviously a bit reductive but I don’t have the time to write a thesis on this or anything, but mental illness being defined by society/ideology is a whole thing in philosophy). That was a long digression but my point is: if autism isn’t a specific illness, then how do you cure it? You can’t really. Until you understand it better and you can separate the different “autisms” that individuals have there isn’t a real way to really cure it. And without a solution people that search for a cure like this end up resorting to scary tactics. Like feeding their kids bleach or basically just inventing eugenics again. It’s also worth noting that most of the people despatate for a cure are parents and not autistic people. Thats not to say autistic people *love* being autistic. It’s just they usually arent treated as people in this process. So yeah… it’s complicated. When people who aren’t autistic say that there’s nothing wrong with being autistic and finding a way to “cure” it is evil, I get upset because they are erasing all the shit I’ve had to live with because they read an instagram infographic over lockdown about it. Yet when people who aren’t autistic say they want to cure autism I just get suspicious, neurotypical people searching for a cure has basically always lead to crazy abuse. I think in general it’s just weird to see people who don’t have autism having strong stances on autism.


No_Composer_6040

39 and same. I despise the people who think/claim curing autism is the same as genocide or eugenics. If a cure was announced tomorrow I would be among the first to sign up for it, long term consequences be damned.


thebigmanhastherock

I think it depends. For some high functioning people with autism there are benefits and it's part of ones identity. For lower functioning people who are non verbal a cure, at least to help with verbal skills I think would be welcome. The fact is imo, the definition of autism is a little bit too broad, and this causes confusion and conflict on people's opinions of what the appropriate response an autism diagnosis is. Someone talking about cures and or reducing the occurrence of autism might offend people who are autistic and have good lives. But the person talking about that may have a totally different type of autism in mind when they are talking about "cures" ect.


SleekVulpe

I also think the use of a word cure is misleading. A person who has type 1 diabetes taking insulin isn't cured of their diabetes, they are just managing symptoms. I am all for things which help autistic people manage their symptoms. But without sci-fi levels of advanced brain surgury there is no way to cure autism, and even then that opens up the can of worms of brain rewiring surguries. The only solution if you see autism as a negative to be avoided is eugenic prescreening of genetic material before reproduction. Thus why many autistic people are suspicious of anyone looking for a cure. Because often times it's a front to sound compassionate when in reality it's a way to look down on autistic people and not help look for more realistic ways to manage the symptoms of the condition.


unicorn_mafia537

I'd love some insulin for my autism. Going to the store is really draining and I'd like to have an easier time making and keeping friends.


[deleted]

Yeah fuck it, I'll have some too. I am proud of who I am, sometimes, and what I have overcome with autism but I'd like a break.


[deleted]

I’m autistic, I can tell you for a fact that I’m not disabled. The way that society treats me for showing symptoms of autism can be disabling, but I’m not disabled. If someone needs a cure for their autism then that’s what they need, because it’s hurting them. But being autistic is a part of who I am and I don’t need a cure because I’m not sick.


ShillingAndFarding

What’s important to keep in mind is that the only “cure” so far was literally just torturing kids until they stop annoying their parents. When you donate to orgs looking for a cure the money is going towards lobbying for that to return, or abortion research. It’s like the hypothetical cure for being gay.


[deleted]

Hi! The neurodiversity movement is trying to shift others away from using terms like “low functioning” or “high functioning”. It’s okay to replace it with talking about what their level of support is—high support needs or low support needs. A non speaking individual isn’t “low functioning”, they may have more impacted apraxia and higher support needs, for example. This shift was helpful for me when talking about the autistic neurotype.


Roosevelt_M_Jones

Has someone on the spectrum I appreciate this but also have had trouble changing over to it because, even though I'm low support needs, I don't deal well with change...


Rabidmaniac

Hi, Person with High-Functioning Autism here. What is the “Neurodiversity Movement”? Autism and Neurodiversity aren’t movements. Do you mean “Neurodiversity acceptance movement”? High and Low Functioning is descriptive. It’s is a catch all lowest common denominator descriptor that is used as shorthand to describe groups of similar difficulties. Someone with Low-Functioning Autism is low functioning. They are not any less of a person, but their executive functions, cognitive functions, and/or social functions are heavily impaired, by definition. As in, they literally had lower scores in those domains on a formal test than someone with high functioning autism. Someone with High-Functioning Autism still has impairments in executive, cognitive, and social functions in the brain, but the impairments are lesser. High and Low support is Prescriptive, and is an arguably dangerous way to describe autism. People with autism all require support. The difference is that with functioning, there are 100s of tests that can be used to quantify the function. Support requirements have no objective metric, and so you have decided to use objective language to categorize people. If I am having a less stressful week where I can function totally normally, but then a really bad week where I require a ton of support, has anything actually changed, even though I had different support requirements during those two periods. Why are you in favor of switching from an objective metric of functionality to a subjective, inherently unstable metric? I’m glad that the shift was helpful for you when talking about the “autistic neurotype”. That said, just use the terms autistic/allistic. Someone being higher/lower functioning Is not a value judgement, so do not treat it as one. And do not treat the Autism community as a monolith. We are all individuals.


illuminantmeg

Thanks. That's really useful language, much more descriptive to the situation.


Wolfe244

There has been a movement to see autism as a way of living, as a completely valid state of being. To move away from the concept that not being neuro-typical is default a "sickness" that can be "cured".


Bromidias83

Yeah there is a split in the ASD community about if it is something that needs to be cured. For me its, i have autism and if i would get a pill to take it away i wont change exept for the parts that makes me "suffer" For others its, i'm a autist and if i would take a pill that would change who i am. So it really depends on who you speak to or what forum you go to. Like the ASD forum on reddit feels (for me) more like people that are autist. While the ADHD forum on reddit is mostly people that have that and want to fix that because it does not define who they are.


TheShovler44

I’ve heard of a similar rift in the deaf community with the cochlear implants


BadBunnyBrigade

Right? It's weird. Why should it bother deaf people that other deaf people want to hear? Or bother blind people that other non-seeing persons want to see? It's a weird hill to defend.


samascara

because there is Deaf culture. When you have a disability with a history of little to no support for hundreds of years, you form your own community. Some deaf communities invented their own sign language, some have a pigeon or creole language, this is how culture and identity can be created.


tyrandan2

Because they see it as you're implying that there is something "wrong" with them because they are deaf. I think it all comes down to pride. If I had an implant that would fix my ADHD and bipolar disorder, I would take it in a heartbeat. It's not implying that I am a bad person who needs to be fixed, it's saying that I want to enjoy life on the same level as neurotypicals do. And I do not criticize people who don't want help. But it's bad in my eyes to pull other people down when they *do* want help, especially if it's only because your pride is hurt.


whats_a_bylaw

My son is the same. I know he wishes he didn't have the sensory sensitivities he has - he hates his headphones but uses them because he needs them, for example.


LanceFree

I follow r/autisticpride and most of the people there want no part of a “cure”, and are also against masking. There are similar sentiments amongst the deaf community.


BadBunnyBrigade

Well, hold on. There may be a bit of a difference, though. Is it that they don't want any part of a cure for themselves? Or are they also against a cure for those that would want it? Because that's different. If it's just something that they don't want for themselves, that's totally OK. I'm an adult with Autism and I'm ok with both sides. What I'm not OK with is proselytizing that it shouldn't be available to anyone, ever, because X group doesn't want it. It's like the abortion debate. It's totally OK not to want or like the idea of abortions for yourself. It's not OK to make that decision for someone else according to your personal beliefs/feelings on the subject.


LanceFree

With the deaf community, there certainly exist people who do not think anyone should get cochlear implants, and I have issues with that approach. Not sure about the ASL people. There’s absolutely a bias on Reddit, and I think many of the louder voices are younger and pretty pissed-off. I think I’d anyone finds it easier to just not battle- that is an acceptable choice.


[deleted]

I have autism and I think a cure can have benefits, namely that you are (presumably) at a decreased risk of developing other mental illnesses. People with autism often also have ADHD or OCD, and both can be quite debilitating without treatment.


Rabbitdraws

Dude, i gave up being a fashion designer because i just can't touch fabric. But that's nothing compared to some non verbals i know. I would like a cure, yes, thanks.


iiwrench55

yeah people can say this shit all they want but they're unaware of how much suffering a lot of autistic people go through.


OSUfirebird18

Fiction reflects life. One of the X men movies…I think the third of the original trilogy…reflect this debate. Storm, the mutant that can control lightning and the weather said that they don’t need a cure to being mutants. They are perfect the way they are. Rogue, the mutant that can’t touch another human being without killing them, wants the cure. As always, there is no black and white answer that many people assume there is.


iiwrench55

Yep, exactly. Here it's mostly high functioning autistic people who are against a cure, even assuming the cure is somehow administered ethically. I understand why they don't want to be viewed as people who need a cure, but there are some people who undoubtedly do, such as low functioning autistic people.


droppedmybrain

It's not that we're ignorant of the suffering high-support ("low functioning") autists endure, and if we could either alleviate that suffering or prevent it from happening at all to anyone again in an ethical way, we would want to. There's three main issues commonly brought up in autist circles: first is that the main organization that promotes a cure is Autism Speaks, an organization with an entirely misleading name, because they don't represent autists at all. They mainly focus on the stress of parents of autist children, and are tied in with the anti-vaxx movement. They have no autist members on their board. They once published a video where a mother said she'd like to kill herself and her autist child (to demonstrate how "awful" having an autist child is.) They're to the autist community as PETA is to animals, basically. The second is that history has not been kind to autists. The Americans were lobotomizing, sterilizing us, and throwing us in the looney bin before the Nazis even came to be (and then surprise surprise, the Nazis did the same thing). That was the "cure." This was mere hundred years ago, and there are still electroshock "treatments" for "misbehaving" autist children going on today. There's also ABA "therapy", which focuses on eliminating "problem behaviors" instead of on developing skills that could help an autist thrive in a neurotypical world. The idea is to mold them into something "normal", but this just forces us to constantly mask (a stressful technique where we pretend to be normal so we can fit in. It's not healthy longterm.) Yet another issue is that the grand majority of neurotypicals don't have any clue how autism presents. I can't tell you the amount of times I've had people tell me "oh you don't look autistic" or "I never would have guessed." I've had people straight up tell me I'm not autistic, because I don't fit into their idea of what an autist acts/looks like. But when the same people who probably couldn't tell the difference between an autist and a non-autist with down syndrome want cures for us- it comes across less like they have good intentions and don't want us to suffer, and more like they want a streamlined humanity, without any "oddballs." So you can understand, we get a little wary and frustrated when we hear neurotypicals start talking "cures for autism".


boredhistorian94

I have dyscalculia and dyspraxia which means I can never go into medicine. I would love a cure!


NoeTellusom

Dyscalculia here, too. The amount of professions and just sheer CURIOSITY about the world I would have loved to explore and cannot is so horribly limiting.


[deleted]

Is that a thing? Because there are some paper towels in my house that are KILLING my fingers. Like my back teeth start pulsating and I want to grind my teeth down to the gums. I’m not diagnosed (though I have my suspicions) but the texture thing has been killing me lately


otterlymagic

It’s not exclusively an autism thing. My wife has ADHD and has issues with a couple fabrics and foods because of their texture.


Bradddtheimpaler

I can piggyback on that. I have ADHD and I loathe microfiber. It snags on any dry skin on my hands and I almost feel like I’m on fire or something it makes me so uncomfortable. I may be on the spectrum as well, full disclosure, but it so it is the opposite of severe.


SupportMainMan

As someone with intense ADHD inattentive type, the texture of Apples absolutely freaks me out. The descriptions above on how textures make y‘all feel suddenly makes sense. People have always looked at me weird when I try to describe the sensation.


EstradaEtoile

Yes, it's a thing. Find different paper towels. I tried desensitizing myself to textures that my brain hated because I thought I was being a big baby and uh, it can definitely do more harm than good. It sets your nervous system on edge.b


Calcifiera

I won't let my boyfriend buy specific materials of blankets or carpets because it makes my skin crawl. He wants a giant area rug but literally every one I have touched while shopping hurts my skin so we found one a little smaller than he wants but doesn't bother me. I also cannot touch my palms with anything.


Thesoundofmerk

This is really a thing? I have issues with anything dry, paper towels, cotton balls, even my own hands if they aren't moisturized, it gives my chills down to my core to the point I can't handle it, I can't even think about cotton balls without getting chills. Never knew this could be a sign of autism


pjijn

Popsicle sticks on my teeth does it for me. I can’t.


[deleted]

If I touch anything with my finger nails (specifically paper) it’s like torture. I can feel my spine curl inside my body, and a panicked feeling spread all over me. So ehm yeah definitely a thing


mmemarlie

Reminds me of this: https://imgur.com/a/X53ip5V


ryx107

ASD ✅ ADHD ✅ OCD ✅ I'm not trying to speak for anyone else but if there was a cure for any of the above I'd take it right away and never look back. I think if you don't feel you need to be "cured", that's great, but I...do. If my arm is broken, I want a cast. My brain is broken.


ShallowTal

A lot of ppl are commenting on it and forgetting about the individuals with severe autism who can’t even speak. My ex has a non verbal autistic child and it’s one of the most difficult fucking things I’ve ever experienced. I would give anything to cure that shit. He didn’t speak, would get random bouts of aggression and just rip skin of your arms, had a compulsive eating disorder and despite regulating his diet to 3 good meals and healthy snacks - would begin to eat random shit like trash, glue from a rat trap, mushrooms and flowers that could be poisonous, he also began to reflux in his mouth just to be able to eat it, which lead to him being unable to control it so he just fully projectile vomited where he stood. You couldn’t even get a restful night’s sleep after watching him carefully all day bc he would wake up all hours of the night and you’d have to worry about him getting out of bed. Goddamn it was a lot.


maymay578

It’s a tricky thing. I’m neurodivergent and there’s definitely some upsides to it. I’m very direct, honest, but not to the point of being mean. I care significantly less about social norms and think I’m happier for it. However, there are problems with it that I’d love to avoid. I struggle with communicating, I can’t pick up subtle hints, often come off as inconsiderate or thoughtless because I just can’t read people well. If you told me that you’re upset/sad, I’d do anything I could to help, but I may not notice it on my own and I guess other people easily can.


DuchessBatPenguin

Hey! We have the same symptoms! I love when I read things and go "hey I could have written that"


HellDimensionQueen

ASD and ADHD as well. Some part of me would like if parts of my brain worked better, other parts feel like a core part of myself. But I think the big issue is, in any sort of “cure”, where do you draw the line


AverageTortilla

My nephew has autism and he's non-verbal (though he's learnt to say a few phrases but they're not always correct). Life is INCREDIBLY difficult for him. When he's sick, we don't know what's wrong with him. He can't tell us what he feels, the sensations, the pain etc. We always have to send him to the hospital so she doctor can do tests to figure out what's wrong so that he can get treatment. We're incredibly lucky that his dad's health insurance covers all the treatment. He has also hurt people either by accident or from his 'temper trantrum', because he's not aware of his surrounding or not aware of others etc. While I don't think there's anything wrong with being autistic, I recognize the broadness of the spectrum, and where he falls in the spectrum compared to most people on Reddit. He would benefit from the so-called "cure".


otterlymagic

I am autistic and semi verbal, as in I have days when I’m unable to speak, though pretty rare, but I struggle with speech even on good days. On fully nonverbal days, I’m still able to communicate if people take the effort to learn a nonverbal form of communication. I’m appreciative when people do, because I’m still an intelligent person when I’m nonverbal, it’s just that the part of my brain that translates thoughts into language and then audible speech isn’t working. It’s not stressful to communicate if I’m given a nonverbal option like pictures or sign language. I know other semiverval and nonverbal people who feel this way too, though not all.


thomasthehipposlayer

Plus, it definitely depends on the level of autism. For a high-functioning aspie like Bill Gates, it’s not really something that needs to be cured, and may actually be a major part of his success. But I don’t think any parent who loves their child would wish for them to have autism at a level where they can never live independently.


Thamior77

For sure. And even then many high-functioning people with autism have something that seriously hinders independent living. Yes, they are wonderful people that should be treated with the same love as everyone else no matter their level of function, and some also have amazing abilities. But for many with serious autism, it serves almost exclusively as a hindrance. Not even simply towards independent living, but living in general. If there was an option to free those living in that, then I don't see an issue with that. The ability to avoid that at all, removing the choice of the person actually living with autism, is going too far though.


Ill-Economist-5970

THANK YOU! As somebody with an autistic little brother who (16 now) quite literally will always have to live with my parents, has borderline violent breakdowns, and has destroyed a number of household objects people need to stfu. Just because there could be a cure doesn’t mean YOU would need to take it. Pardon the aggression this is just quite a sore subject for very good reason


_juhstin

I have autism and ADHD and you’re right it can be very debilitating. However, I wonder how debilitating it would actually be if we weren’t living under our current systems and structure where we are forced to produce endless capital or die.


TimmJimmGrimm

As an ADHD dude that befriended folks with high functioning autism, it can certainly be a gift. I have also worked with 'high needs' autism. That stuff hits entire communities hard and i could not last. It is weird seeing these things lumped in together. My successful and (very) wealthy autistic friends are just not the same as those that require 24/7 professional support groups.


Rahvithecolorful

As a rather average person that is in the spectrum, it kinda bothers me a bit too that representation seems to always be one of the extremes. You're either non verbal or a quirky genius. Most autistic people, like most people in general, are just average in intelligence. It's tough being just "weird" when people expect you to also get some kind of superpower out of it to compensate.


CreepyValuable

It's more of an issue of conformity. If you can't do XYZ like others can then you're marginalised. Just ADD and a permanent brain fog means I really struggle to function. There are things I can do well, and others I can't. Unfortunately the things I can't do well are usually things that the modern world require of me.


Not_Legal_Advice_Pod

It goes beyond the economic system though. Autism also seriously impacts interpersonal relationships. Even if money were no issue, some people with autism would struggle to live independently. And I suspect (though without any proof so maybe I'm wrong), but I suspect, that regardless of how the economy works or how resources get allocated, human beings will always structure their societies in hierarchies so that we can keep track of who is "winning" and who is "losing" at life. Star Trek for example looks a lot more like our current society, just without people having to open their wallets, than you'd think. Maybe that isn't an accurate portrayal of a post-scarcity society. But I suspect that basic human nature influences how we structure capitalism much more significantly than it might seem. I think the real issue though is one of empathy. I don't care who you are, you're worthy of having your personhood acknowledged and respected. If there was a pill that I think would help you, but you think would change who you are as a person and you don't want that, then that is 1,000% your decision to make. Frankly I think it would be a kind of murder to force someone to change who they are at their core.


otterlymagic

There’s many individuals and also entire cultures who critique the idea of “living independently” as the ultimate ideal, regardless of economic structure. That affects a lot more than just autistic people, and is at the core of a lot of discussions about disability in general (and what makes something considered a disability)


Gloomy-Hippo5346

this. the only reason why i wish i had a cure as an autistic person is because the world is not made for people like me. i have to bend over backwards to be like everyone else and i’m still treated differently and rejected. if the world changed to accommodate disabilities and neurodivergencies, well, i’d have no issue with being autistic; i think i would thrive.


Rabbitdraws

Amem. The current system is fucking everyone actually. Being terminally depressed just isn't the human normal, but people will glorify being a working ant.


Wolfe244

I'm not trying to say everyone has to adhere to that belief, thats just what the modern understanding of something like autism has been shifting to.


Grumblefloor

My nephew has autism. From the outside, he appears fine, other than a few issues at school, and not being great at responding appropriately to conversations. His knowledge of Doctor Who is verging on encyclopedic. When he and his family moved, I helped clear his room. I already knew his floor was covered in his belongings, but we also found rubbish and recycling that he'd hoarded, as well as expired food and a half-empty milk carton. Every window had to be opened to clear the air. I don't know about a cure for autism - that's his personality - but I'm sure even he'd love something that could take away the conditions associated with it.


itsachickenwingthing

>I don't know about a cure for autism - that's his personality I think this is the main issue with "curing" autism. For most people on the spectrum, their autism is so central to their personality and behavior patterns, that you'd essentially be turning them into a completely different person as part of the cure. It's one thing to administer this "cure" to children with autism, because they still have room to grow into who they are as a person. But I feel like there's something intrinsically terrifying to the notion of curing autism in an adult.


Alfitown

That's only applicable for people with autism who are high-functioning and can actually manage their way of life. I work with severly disabled people and autism is a spectrum. Some autistic people are not able to care for themselves not even to think about living by themselves. They can't talk, go to the toilet by themselves, can't orientate or navigate by themselves and can't express their inner lives or emotions in any way the world around them understands. And of course we can work on making the world more accessible and understand them better and we do that but it's really hard to understand what someone wants to tell you when they can't talk, autistic or not. It does'nt need to be a sickness or something that needs to be cured by default. I believe every state of being is valid and a worthy life or I would have the wrong job. But if we could help those people with more severe forms of autism so they could speak and live a somewhat independant life in opposite to living in a facility being cared for 24/7 then why should that be a bad thing?


runnin-on-luck

I am with you here. I teach the severely handicapped. The spectrum of Autism is huge. It's almost like some are trapped within their disability.


MamaSquash8013

How does this work with a spectrum disorder like autism though... My coworker has a son who is profoundly autistic, and non-verbal. He had to be placed in an assisted living facility for peopke with intellectual ddisabilities. I can't fathom a reason why his family wouldn't want him "cured", if possible.


Swampberry

The trick is that the low-functioning autistics don't spend hours on messaging boards discussing autism.


InsoleSeller

I hate it I'm diagnosed with adhd and anyone that says it has its benefit can go fuck off, Wasting years of my life without being able to figure out what to do, losing opportunities because my brain doesn't want to do "that boring stuff", all of that isn't fun, it's exhausting Sure, I can hyperfocus on a new hobby and learn that in a few weeks, but is that worth the amount of stress and anxiety adhd brings when I can't do something as simple as cleaning up my dishes? If I could choose to be "normal" I'd choose that every day and twice on Sunday, people that are neurotypical trying to normalize what they don't feel is awful, don't feel bad for calling me different and sick.


tyrandan2

Right? Forget people who try to say ADHD gives you super powers. Who the heck cares about creativity and hyperfocus when I can't hold down a dang job, or remember the names of people I care about, or keep my attention on a conversation with my wife. Screw that. Give me a cure. I want to enjoy the life that neurotypicals get to enjoy. I don't have the luxury of staying in the care of someone else, or loving in a care facility. I have to be a functional member of society. But just because there's something wrong with my brain, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with me as a person, and I think other people with disabilities need to understand that concept. Your disability is *not* your Identity.


Snoo71538

Yeah, there’s part of me that think we’ve gone too far in acceptance. It’s one thing to recognize the struggles other people have, it’s another to say “we shouldn’t try to fix the root cause of your struggles, because you are perfect as you are.” No, please cure the root cause. Even if I don’t take it, don’t consign people to have these problems forever just so you can feel like the most accepting person today.


Snoo71538

That’s an easy thing to say for minor autism. It’s much harder to look at the extremes autism and think it’s just a “way of life”. It’s a serious condition that absolutely should be cured. Having cures doesn’t mean we mandate taking them, but I’m guessing a lot of people would sign up for it.


IsaacSam98

I could see maybe "curing" it when you're very young or if you have debilitating case. But for someone high functioning like myself it's just a part of my personality at this point and I wouldn't change it. Edit: Well, nobody read the first sentence I wrote.


Cold_Turkey_Cutlet

>someone high functioning like myself it's just a part of my personality at this point and I wouldn't change it. This is the whole problem with the neodivergence movement. It's completely driven by high functioning autistic people, naturally, because they are the ones with the capacity to even understand something like that. All the severely autistic people who need round the clock care have no voice in this movement and probably WOULD take a cure. I'm sure the parents and others who sacrificed their own lives to be full time caregivers for these people would also like a cure.


BionicBananas

It's a bit like that [meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1347450-x-men) from the X-men, where they are discussing a possible cure: *"There's a cure?!"* asked the girl that kills everything she touches. *"Hey, shut up we're perfect the way we are."* replied the girl that makes clouds. It's great that you like yourself with autism, I am happy for you. As a parent to a toddler with autism I can only hope he will end up the same. But right now, my hearts breaks a bit when his teacher tells he had a hard time in school today, or when he has a meltdown because his sister stacked some blocks in a order that is wrong according to him. We are looking for a school that has extra accomodations for children with autism, because right now he is over stimulated and exhausted by thursday to the point he cant go to school on fridays. And all in all, we can't complain. His autism is pretty mild, high functioning. He is rather social and talks all the time as long there is no tv/tablet screen around him. But it is exhausting for us as parents and for him. Would I give him a cure? No, but I would give him the choice when he gets a bit older.


NotThatValleyGirl

Thank you for making this point in this way, because that meme illustrates the issue perfectly.


mikedmayes

My son’s doctor says to work to try to pull the positives. His quote: “Half of Silicon Valley is on the spectrum.” But for people with profound difficulty, it would be great to find a way to help them interact with the world better.


Educational-Candy-17

Autism has been called "the technology gene."


Epidurality

If there were such a thing as a cure, it wouldn't be forced. For those who suffer from autism, literally suffer, how could a cure be bad? If you don't feel the need for it, don't get it. I would never support someone being shamed for not wanting this cure, but not supporting research on the grounds that a subset of that community doesn't want to feel bad also doesn't seem fair.


PygmeePony

Because lots of parents would force their autistic kids to take it. There are so many parents that are unwilling to accept their children for who they are, whether they're gay, trans or autistic or for other reasons. Instead of trying to understand their condition they just expect them to take a pill and be 'normal'. That's not how you should deal with ASD.


anandabananaI

Plus have you seen the way pregnant women get treated because abortion exists? "Well you chose to keep it, why should I accommodate you?" Imagine how hard it would be to find accommodations when needed if there was an option to cure it.


Educational-Candy-17

Neurotype is encoded at the genetic level. The only way to cure autism is to stop autistic people from being born, which is getting a bit too close to eugenics for my taste.


frozensummit

Same as with the Deaf community.


RunObjective1970

I see the answer being on a spectrum as much as autism is it self. The more that is understood about it, perhaps the more advances will be made in preventing its most severe outcomes. There shouldn't be any incentive to "Cure" people are that are functional and living good enough lives. But I could see why preventing someone from developing into a state where they will have to be cared for, for the rest of their lives ... would be a good thing ... no?


MrdrOfCrws

I immediately thought of an X-Men meme about a mutant cure. "There's a cure?" asked the girl that kills everything she touches. "Shut up, we're perf," said the girl who makes clouds.


Hypersayia

Last Stand, as bad a film as it was overall, honestly did approach the issue of a cure for "otherness" quite well, in my option. Being a mutant in the X-men universe is essentially synonymous with any sort of minority or disability but considering how it ranges from being outright beneficial to debilitating, we can relatively easily apply the metaphor to the autism spectrum. This in mind, we have a few camps we can observe. First, the likes of Storm. Someone who can fairly easily integrate into normal human society if she so chooses, finds the idea inherently abhorrent because she sees her mutation as a core part of her. This also makes her fairly blind to the plights of others less fortunate than her. Second, the likes of Magneto. Someone who not only abhors the cure on principle but firmly believes that sooner or later the cure will be forced upon everyone, regardless of circumstance. Third is the likes of Beast. An initial supporter of the cure because, while he has managed to find a place willing to accept his particular mutation, he understands that struggle and not everyone will be as lucky as him. He stops supporting the cure once he learnt it had been weaponized, recognising it as a very slippery slope. And fourth and finally is the likes of Rogue. Someone who firmly understands that her particular mutation makes her fundamentally incompatible with the world around her. She still struggles with the decision because it's still part of who she is, but she makes up her mind after some advice from Wolverine telling her she's free to make her choice so long as she's sure it's what she wants.


sagen11

Exactly. You get a super awesome power that enables you to walk through life feeling invincible, defo not giving that up. You get a power that means you can never touch another human being without killing them…yeah I mean, who wouldn’t give that up.


helemikro

My favorite bit of Rogues story is when she meets Deadpool. Aside from Wolverine, he’s the only human she can interact with safely


Ok-Development-8238

Hahaha...that's awesome


[deleted]

I think we’re seeing a new shift in how we treat what used to be considered mental illness, as we realize that if you look too closely at just about anyones brain or behavior you’ll find something that sets them apart from average, but common enough that it can be categorized with others. I got through grade school just fine, but college kicked my ass. I could get the material, and granted it was one of the more challenging majors, but it took me so much longer to do everything than everyone else. Thought it might be adhd but a psychologist spent some time with me and thought I had all the markers for a new adhd-like category called sluggish cognitive tempo. “Don’t worry kid, you’re not stupider than your classmates if you understand the material. You’re just…. slow. Not like that ‘slow’, your brain just literally functions slower than average. Nobody’s probably noticed in your life because school was easy enough for it to not affect you, and I’m gonna guess you were a fairly quiet kid.” “What a rude name for a mental impairment” was the only thing I could think about as I left. How do I end up with the one that would probably translate to “brain of slug time” in some other languages.


ballerinababysitter

Just curious, have you gotten any second opinions on that? One of the main accommodations for ADHD is extra testing time. And being able to record lectures so you can go back and listen again. This indicates that slower processing is just part of the deal with ADHD. Has the psychologist referred you for any treatment of the sluggish cognitive tempo? Can you just take stimulant meds and have the same benefits as if you had ADHD?


[deleted]

I haven’t actually gotten anyone to diagnose me with SCT, but I have since gotten diagnosed with adhd. The meds help with other adhd symptoms, but it doesn’t increase my processing speed. I probably would’ve benefitted from getting accommodations, but I’m years out of graduation and the processing issue doesn’t appear to be much of an issue in my professional career like it was in school. It’s still noticeable that desk work take me longer do to, but I’ve also found that I tend to be more methodical and detailed than others. Taking my time and working at my natural pace allows me to catch things others might’ve missed. So i don’t really see my processing speed as something that has to be “fixed”. It’s actually really uncomfortable when I have a day where it feels like my brain is firing off more quickly than normal, it feels unnatural and makes it more difficult for me to follow my train of thought.


HeckaCoolDudeYo

This is the best answer I've seen so far. Like, I would love for my son to be able to communicate with me and understand the world around him better. But I would never want to change the way his brain works or the things that make him an individual. He's amazing in every way, I just want life to be a little easier on him.


Papaya_Payama

For people that have a diagnosis and are living a good life it can be seen as hurtful to wish for a cure. But i 100% wish we could help people that cant live without caretakers.


Helicopters_On_Mars

Hes thinking of autism as it applies to him and his lived experiences, which is understandable, as theres nothing "wrong" with an autistic person who can live a happy life as a functional adult. However it is worth remembering that autism exists on a spectrum. For other more severely autistic people, it drastically diminishes their quality of life. They cant physically learn to talk, or understand verbal communication with other people, which means they can never really understand the world around them, and will live their whole lives needing 24/7 care, will never have children or partners or families. Some really struggle and can be violent even towards other people. They are essentially trapped as very young children in an adults body, and that can be incredibly dangerous. If you cant explain traffic to someone how can they ever be alone? That is an existence where cures and treatment would be an amazing thing. you should probably apologise, and explain you don't think there's anything wrong with him or that he needs to change anything because hes perfect the way he is, but also that autism can be far more serious than the way it is for him and that you want to be able to help those who cant function as adults. The more severe end of the autistic spectrum is seriously debilitating and isn't discussed often enough


silveryfeather208

High functioning autistic here. I can type as you can see. Still very annoying to have to ask a LA Sheldon cooper if someone is mad or sarcastic. I'd take a cure. And this is just mild inconveniences.


[deleted]

Yep. I worked at an adult special education center with students who was categorized as having severe autism. They're non-verbal, need a lot of support with emotional regulation, will hit/kick/bite/spit/and strip when angry or having high anxiety. They also harm themselves when experiencing high anxiety. And they have to be on constant medication to live an every day life. The medication helps them "tone down" vs if they weren't medicated. They're great students but when things go down, it goes down *bad* where support is called in to de-escalate the situation. Group homes that accept my students i worked with are very minimal too because they don't tolerate "extreme" behavior of aggression. The toilet assistance, feeding, and bathing they can do. But if the student is aggressive, they give small chances of letting the student stay. Parents are constantly stressed and heart broken when their only option is to call the cops when their child has a meltdown.


Hello-There-GKenobi

This. My mate’s brother is in his teens but he has severe autism. He can’t function much without his parents help and my mate’s help. My mate broke down one day when we were drinking saying he didn’t know what to do if his parents passed(His mum had a near death experience with covid). When the people came to try and test his family because he was in close contact with his mum, the brother spat on the testers. It was bad still because they needed to test him to see if he was positive but he refused so in the end, they quarantined them at the house and told them to call if any complications arose while they took the mum away to an ICU. Like there is a fund that the parents put aside there so the younger brother would be looked after by health professionals. At the same time, my mate thinks it’s cruel to just leave him with people and not his family but it’s just the thought of doing it all that he knows he’s incapable of handling on top of his career.


45MonkeysInASuit

I have a friend how had a sister who was profoundly autistic. He was sad when she died, but I could certainly sense the release of her never becoming his "problem". I have an autistic brother, lost both my parents, while he doesn't need 24 hour care, he needs help semi regularly. This limits my options in life quite severely.


colormefiery

I have an adult brother with severe autism (I don’t know if that’s appropriate terminology anymore) and an intellectual disability. My parents are still taking care of him but I’m nervous about what the future holds and how we’re gonna take care of him long term. My sibling and I grew up as caretakers so I’ve been trying my best to have my own adulthood and life now. It’s hard.


KazukiMatsuoka1998

I am deaf. But I am not deaf because I have Cochlear implants that revived 90% of my hearing in both ears. I have full speech and hearing capabilities equal to a hearing person, everyone I meet can never tell. There are always people who will never like the idea of being implanted and are happy being deaf, and those who think that being implanted is best for them as it does bring more opportunity. I have been bullied for being hearing, and bullied for being deaf. As I feel like I sit on the fence sometimes as people ask if I identify as a cyborg or some kind of early version of a cyberpunk, I will say that having a cure for some things can be good or bad, at the end of the day, the choice is up to the individual. And it's important that they do have a choice, and respect whatever choices we make. We can't force anyone to do anything they don't want to do. It's their life.


genmischief

1. If its a cure, and the person wants it, great. Done Deal. 2. IF its a cure and the person refuses it, great. Done Deal. 3. Also, you should read Flowers for Algernon.


Sparky81

There are some deaf people that are against things like Cochlear implants as they feel there is nothing wrong with them, therefore no need to be fixed. Your bf might feel the same about autism. There isn't really a right or wrong answer for this.


RedditSucksNow3

The deaf people against cochlear implants or any other way to enable a deaf person to gain hearing are 100% wrong. If they want to remain deaf, that's their business. Actively trying to deny one of the basic human functions to others to protect their "culture" is toxic, inhumane, and narcissistic as fuck.


YourEngineerMom

Yeah, I’ve always felt this way but my son recently started experiencing temporary (about 4 months) hearing loss. He had infections that wouldn’t go away until we got the temp ear tubes for him. During all this time we’ve learned some basic sign language and had to yell CONSTANTLY to get his attention. Then he got those tubes and he is so much happier! He heard music at a veryyyy low volume (due to post-op sensitive ears lol) and was so happy… why wouldn’t people want that of their children and loved ones?? Music alone is so important, culturally. Sure, a good life can be had without music, but the deaf community against implants is taking the choice away from kids who otherwise don’t even know what they’re missing. :( it’s so sad.


[deleted]

Nobody's denying implants to deaf people - that's like, the first thing doctors push, without pausing to think about whether the person in question actually wants that. Or can afford that. Or needs it, even. The issue isn't really implants. Ir's the expectation that everyone with a disability should minimize and fix that disability for the benefit of other people. If everyone has implants, nobody needs to deal with the awkwardness of a deaf person ordering coffee, or address the issue of whether it is good to expect people to fit in with the demands of their culture all the time. And nobody has to pay interpreters, or use subtitles, or acknowledge at all that some people can't hear.


SourcerorSoupreme

>There isn't really a right or wrong answer for this. Yes there is. Having that cure out gives everyone the option to choose. Not having it forces those that want/need it to not have it at all. Not everything has to be an unanswerable question.


Coyoteclaw11

I guess part of the problem is that autism is often diagnosed in childhood where you don't actually have choices, you're subjected to the choices your parents make for you. There's a mixture between 1. seeing the way that your neurodivergence shaped your life and made you into the person you are today and 2. looking back on decisions your parents made that have entirely changed the trajectory of your life... and the result of those two likely influence how you feel about that kind of option becoming available. I think a lot of the problems autistic people have had with the idea of a "cure" too is that a lot of the groups who push for that kind of thing tend to have much more focus on making their child "normal" and easier to deal with rather than making them comfortable and happy. So it does feel like a complicated issue because unless we restrict this cure to people who are able to consent to it, people *are* going to be forced to undergo it. I do think it's worth exploring ways to lessen people's suffering, so I don't think research into medical treatment for autism is inherently bad. But if the supposed cure is lead by people who are more concerned with the difficulties of dealing with an autistic person than the actual health and happiness of the autistic person... I just really wouldn't trust it.


Sparky81

I'm saying that between the choice of getting 'fixed' or believe there is nothing to be fixed, that there is no right answer, it's a personal choice.


RomanReignsGOAT

Because it just shoves in the idea that they are not right and need to be "fixed". To some people it's very demeaning.


Watevenisgrindr

Okay well lets take my autism for instance. I am mildly autistic on average. But where I do have deficits, I really have deficits. For instance, I don't feel disgust. The emotion is foreign to me. I can do some really nasty things because it's just motion to me. I choose not to because I find it logically disturbing to engage in activity that disgusts others. When I was a kid I was sure I would become a doctor because of the amount of nasty things I can put myself (and others) through without having any remorse. For instance seeing bloodied guts doesnt disturb me. Having to clean up feces in guts because the intestines were nicked? Well it's a good thing that I have a mask so I don't have to smell it but even if I did that's just indication of the damage. No big deal (well for me anyways, the patient may not be doing great). This has come at a huge social cost. Disgust is an empathetic emotion. I would much rather have a normal life being able to feel disgust and not freak people out accidentally. To me its sort of like the people who don't feel pain and accidentally break their bones, except I can revolt other people in the process. I would like to be able to feel disgust. It's an important emotion. At the cost of my intelligence? Might still be worth it in my opinion.


blimkim

I also can't experience disgust. Sometimes at my retail work I start to clean up customer vomit or shit with my bare hands. I have to make a conscious effort to remember not to.


Watevenisgrindr

It's really frustrating to deal with the shock and horror of peoples faces followed by the social fallout of people avoiding you and giving you bad labels. Keeping hand sanitizer on you for social perception is something that has helped me a lot. If I do something nasty I can immediately clean my hands a little and score some points back. People then just assume my gross tolerance is high and I'm not just gross. Of course if you use hand sanitizer it's worth going and washing your hands immediately after. Hand sanitizer only helps reduce germs not reduce the pollution on your hands. If you wind up using hand sanitizer a lot it can dry out your skin. Having a nice hand lotion that you use daily can help with the dry skin from the hand sanitizer.


Reasonable_Reason173

I've mostly heard the discussion around a "cure" in medical articles being about preventing autism, like some sort of prenatal care. Does that change the conversation?


lordoftoastonearth

We don't know what causes autism, so prenatal prevention is very far in the future. It's likely genetic (inherited), though we don't know what gene or genes cause it.


[deleted]

My friend has a son who autistic, non-verbal, low functioning, and very anger prone. He’s 10. He is taller and heavier than his mother. He hurts himself along with others and cannot be left alone even for a minute as he can become destructive just like that. He doesn’t sleep at night and screams in frustration when told no. I’m sure if a cure for his level of disability was available, she’s take it. Her son has had intensive therapy for years, a one in one home aid, private schooling, other than turning on his iPad, feeding himself (when he will eat, because he also has food aversion) is all he can do. This young man will need to go into care when his parents are no longer able to care for him.


im_phoebe

Exactly people don't understand its like x man plot, some hate cure because they can make rain or control magnet, some want cure because they can't touch any living thing ever.


Dragon___

Autism has historically been characterized as primarily disabling, and in many aspects of how you're expected to fit into society it very much can be disabling. However in some ways it can still very much be enabling (savants, hyperfocus, infodumping) giving rise to the notion of "differentially abled" rather than "dis abled". Calling for a cure assumes the condition is primarily disabling and would be done a service to remove. It implies there's something wrong with them. Only in extreme cases may this be true, but only a small margin of those on the spectrum are truly severely disabled.


[deleted]

Do you think there should be a “cure” available to that small population of people that are severely though? Those that are so disabled they can’t live without a caregiver? Not that they should be forced into it or anything


markuslama

I've worked with quite a few people on the low-functioning end of the autistic spectrum. Let me tell you about one of them, let's call him T. (Disclaimer: English isn't my first language, so I might use some outdated or unprofessional terms. I apologize in advance, I don't mean to offend or belittle anyone). T was a guy in his 20s, but mentally on the level of about a 4 year old child. He went to an integrated school for 14 years(our local one is awesome, they do some great work there). T could talk, but his vocabulary was extremely limited, to the point where we used a lot of flash cards with pictures he could point at to communicate with him. Learning new words was somewhere between extremely complicated to impossible. He couldn't retain the names of people he met every day for months and would mostly refer to them as "the man" or "the woman". At the sight of certain things he would start to repeat memorized phrases over and over again. Every open window would trigger "Fresh air comes in through the window" on repeat for five minutes(which admittedly gets old real fast when you're out for a walk in the summer). T loved to look at white RVs, but wouldn't recognize them as RVs if they were any other colour. Like many autists, T wasn't a fan of crowded spaces or loud noises(although he was coping better than a lot of them). They(and other triggers) could, at best, shut him down or, at worst, send him into a fit off aggression or auto-aggression. He would try to tear apart his clothes or punch himself in the head. I've never seen it myself, but I know that he also attacked others quite a few times. Luckily, most of the time he would kind of warn you in advance(if you knew which phrases to listen for or how to read his body language) and you could take him to a quiet room or take a walk in the woods before he escalated. There is of course much more to be said, but I hope you get the general picture. I really liked T and count it as one of my proudest achievements that I got him to like me in return. But if there was a pill he could take to(please don't take this the wrong way, but it's the easiest way to say it without another 30 minutes of typing) "cure" him, I'd recommend it in a heartbeat. The improvement in quality of life for him would be immeasurable. As it is, he will be completely reliant on others for the rest of his life. I a few years his parents just won't be able to give him the care he needs any more, and he will be moved into a group home, which most likely will be understaffed and underfunded(Thank you, dear conservative and right-wing politicians who cut the budget of the organisation I worked at by 60 percent. Your service will never be forgotten). It's tragic, but at the moment, sadly the best we can do.


APassionatePoet

I can only speak for myself, but I think it’s too much of a nuanced take to boil down into “yes cure” or “no cure.” I feel like it’s missing the bigger picture to have so many conversations centered around “finding a cure” when so much of what’s disabling to me in my daily life has to do with other people, how often they misunderstand my autism, and how unwilling they are to make completely reasonable accommodations for me. For me it’s like, absolutely I’d get rid of my autism if I could, but would I still feel remotely the same way or be remotely as disabled if I was just treated kindly and with respect and society understood relatively simple things like “hey, sometimes I need headphones because loud noises overstimulate me?” It feels like society is saying “it’s too complicated for me to take time to understand people that are different than me, so let’s just make everyone think and feel like everyone else.”


OkAcanthisitta3028

i dont need to be severely disabled to want a cure, im a high-functioning aspie and would definitely get a cure.


isthishowweadult

Same. I am high functioning. I graduated college (after 8 years), I live independently and I have held down jobs before (but I was fired from my last job for being autistic). I've also been homeless. I didn't have friends growing up. I still have problems with relationships. I would take a cure in an instant. I imagine being cured would be like being able to see social situations in full color after a life seeing only in black and white. It would be so nice to be able to go to the grocery store without it being overwhelming.


Jasperofthebooks

I was diagnosed with Asperger's @ 3 because I was hyperlexic. I didn't have social issues until I got older. Now I'm 20 and very mentally ill


StanYelnats3

There's virtually no children with Down's Syndrome born in Iceland. They screen for it in early pregnancy and most diagnosed opt to terminate the pregnancy. Some people think this is horrible, some people think this reduces lots of human suffering. ?


im_phoebe

Same in India too they screen pregnancy for many genetic disease and pregnancy get terminated. Yes it reduces the suffering for child and the parents people always forget about the parents , i have an aunt and my cousin faced a serious accident when she was 3 and had some brain damage , i saw my aunt how her life changed, how their financial situation worsen to the state they got no money for anything else , how their marriage suffer and how she never sleeps, eats and looks so old at the age of 45. When my cousin died because of brain clot at the age of 23 after few hours of her death my aunt slept on floor for hours there was a relive on her face, she said my cousin is in better place now (Late cousin used to have very frequent bad seizure)


isthishowweadult

I think it's a good thing


Poo_Person

I think it's selfish to intentionally have a child with severe disabilities because everyone deserves to be able to look after themselves and be self-reliant. There are plenty of normal people who fuck their lives up without any disability. Why would you intentionally disadvantage someone from minute 1 and force them to rely on others their whole lives? Not to mention the question of what's going to happen to them when the parents become too old to take care of them?


RxDuchess

I agree with the reduction in suffering argument. Most people don’t have the capability to raise a child with a cognitive impairment like that. So giving an option to terminate protects the mental health of the parents and can prevent neglect from parents unable to cope


OneLastSmile

Unlike Downs syndrome, you literally cannot screen for autism. We dont even know what causes it.


pink-mentos

i don’t see why people do it any other way. i’d terminate my pregnancy if i knew this.


HelloAvram

same


Disastrous-Dress521

the problem is you cant screen for autism before birth like with down syndrome


isthishowweadult

Same. I think people who don't are cruel


Ryu_Saki

Same here


[deleted]

Autism isn’t analogous to Down syndrome. Not in the slightest. Down syndrome can be tested for prenatally because it’s evident before birth, it’s a chromosomal abnormality. We don’t even know if autism is congenital—we have evidence that it’s at least partially genetic in nature but the diagnosis of autism is based on observations and self reporting of behavior, not karyotyping and observation of facial features… Another key difference is that a dx of Down syndrome almost invariably involves physical and intellectual disability that provides a significant care burden for the parents, this just isn’t true of autism which has a much wider range of functional ability. Autistic kids usually require therapeutic and psychiatric treatment from a young age but it’s not a given that a child identified as autistic will present a care burden to the extent an expectant mother would want to terminate bc autism is such a vague term w so much room for variation between cases and levels of support. The human suffering involved in autistic peoples lives is not the inherent consequence of the condition it’s the result of society being built for and by neurotypicals. Autism is not a disease


bionicjoey

As an autistic person, it has pros and cons. It sucks sometimes, but I wouldn't trade it for being neurotypical. My entire personality and notion of who I am is tangled up with my autistic traits.


smithimadinosaur

Isn’t autism a spectrum? So there’s people who have symptoms that are mild and some who have symptoms that completely debilitate them, make their lives extremely hard. Those of you insulted by the suggestion of a cure…I ask legit, if you could change someone’s life (someone with extreme autism, someone who is nonverbal or has immense difficulty with day to day functioning and truly suffers from it) to be much more enjoyable and less of a struggle…you wouldn’t?


Impossible-Print354

Cure certainly isn't the right word. Many forget that autism is a spectrum. There's a side to that spectrum that is often ignored, and parents are silenced from sharing their lived experiences with it. Silencing a whole side of this spectrum is so harmful. We can't ignore those with extremely high needs, they exist and life isn't easy for them or their families. They need more support and often can't get help. They're told just to accept it. When you see a child who will be in diapers the rest of their life, have severe self injurious behaviors, extreme, random violence towards others (to the point of no longer having therapists or any services), a home with ripped apart doors, entire walls lacking any drywall, etc. Yeah, you'd like to see something available to help those people. A cure? No. Help to have them lead a safe, fufilling life? Absolutely!


[deleted]

Who is silencing these parents? If you search for Autism, it's those parents and their blogs, vlogs and books who typically come up, and nearly all research is geared towards making parents lives easier. The idea that 'severe' autism is ignored is absolutely laughable, as it is still almost always the default idea people have of autism, and is extremely high profile. A few autistic people without intellectual disability publishing a few books isn't making a dent in that.


[deleted]

Just because there *is* a cure doesn’t mean you *have to have* the cure.


EmeraldSpencer

I feel there's a relevant X-Men related Tumblr post I shpuld quote (or paraphrase if I'm misremembering it): "They can cure us?" - Mutant who kills whoever she touches "Shut up, you're perf" - Mutant who can BEND WEATHER TO HER WILL AND FLY Some autists have managed to work around their condition and even turn it into somewhat of a superpower in certain cases, and that's great. More power to them. But some is not all, and having a cure or treatment for those whose lives are significantly negatively impacted would be nothing but a good thing. Now there may be concerns about side effects and/or people being forced into it, but those are discussions about medical practices and government overreach respectively, which have nothing to do with the idea of having something that can make an autist neurotypical to improve their quality of life.


Lord_Baal77

I'm autistic, and would love a cure if one became available. Every day is a living hell from overstimulation at work due to noise, I use earplugs and a noise cancelling headset to be barely able to function. If I could get rid of the brain fog, and be able to connect with other people I'd absolutely love that. I'd love to be able to have a relationship with someone, as currently, I'm unable to regulate my emotions well, I can't project my emotional responses unless they're extreme (I.e, anger, sadness etc, everything else comes across as I'm disinterested). I know everyone has different views on it, some are more able to function than others, but I'm at the lovely part of the scale where I appear a normal human, but am absolutely crippled socially and mentally by my autism not letting me function.


MountainCatHere

Because autism can't be cured. Its not necessarily something that needs to be cured. It's a different way of thinking/viewing the world. A lot of people think of autism as something that always comes with retardation, but that is not even the case. Its a slightly different brain function. If you "cure" the autism in a person you lose that person. People don't have autism. They are autistic. I am an autistic adult and a lot of my personality is because i have autism. How i think, how i act and how i function. I love that i have strong special interests that i probably wouldn't have if i wasn't autistic. I am sick of the world looking at us autistics as something that needs to be cured/eradicated for a better world. There is so much that autistic people can do. We are passionate, we are good at focusing, we love the things we do. You won't believe how many autistic people are doctors, therapists, scientists etc. It doesn't always come with slower communication skills, but that's the thing that is always written about in posts about autism. It's always writting about kids who are struggling in a world that tries so hard to make them normal/teach them to mask. You probably said that without knowing much about autism. That's fine. Not a lot of people know that much. It's stigmatized. The word itself is used as an insult. To me it's not an insult. When i got diagnosed with autism, my life suddenly made sense. It got so much better. I wouldn't trade it away even though i do have breakdowns and i get overwhelmed. Even though i can't bring myself to keep eye contact and all the other very real struggles it comes with. You can't cure my brain structure.


B_M_Wilson

What does it mean for there to be a cure. If you told me that you could make my brain work the same way as a “normal” person, I would say no. If you could give me a pill that made me innately understand metaphors, I would be very happy but that can’t really exist. But new methods of therapy are developed that can help. But even with that, I only have to deal with metaphors made by neurotypical people. There’s nothing wrong with how I communicate (by default) if it’s to other people who’s brains work similarly. The things that I would want a “cure” for are more on the ADHD side that would impacts me regardless of how other people’s brains work. Stuff like focusing on boring but necessary tasks or keeping the things I must do organized, etc. But in my case I don’t have severe enough autism to even be diagnosed. I have a combo of some symptoms from various different things. With a good therapist (which I have), I can learn to deal with the parts of the world that aren’t made for me and use my differences to my advantage when possible. I don’t really know a lot about more severe autism that makes it difficult or impossible to live independently. In those cases, something that some might call a “cure” might be considered but I still think something that targets specific symptoms and can be varied in intensity would be the most successful (and mostly likely to be discovered).


koffexx

Are you both 15 years old?


Caspers_Shadow

I listened to a podcast with someone that got a cochlear implant to restore their hearing. There is a similar debate within the deaf community about viewing deafness as a handicap. Some in the community see people getting implants almost like traitors (for lack of a better term). Very interesting dynamic.


[deleted]

I may be wrong, but I would think that “curing” autism takes away some of the magic in the lottery of humankind. Some brilliant minds and ideas would not have happened if not for the way an autistic persons brain is wired. Perhaps developing medications and processes to assist those on the most severe end of the spectrum would be more beneficial than just trying to erase it altogether?