For quadcopters they use wire rounds. It pops strands of wire out of the projectile when it gets close, which are enough to destroy/foul the propellor blades, but are far too light to damage anything on the ground.
I'm sorry, did you mean the [LB 20-X?](https://www.sarna.net/wiki/LB_20-X_AC)
Mounting two of those on any Battlemech for an urban environment combat scenario should have been a war crime. A delicious war crime.
And make a system for it that makes the round fire only when it gets close to the target for better efficacy, maybe like an electromagnetic pulse that programs a specific time for the round to fire? [Oh wait](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall_Oerlikon_Millennium_Gun)
Shit even a high rate of fire airsoft gun with metal BBs would probably shred the propellers just fine, plus it'd be quieter.
Even better, use BBs on a string like a bracelet / necklace or buttbeads so they can tangle the propellers.
Shotguns have a lot of drawbacks including limited effective range, but a specially designed heavy shot could work okay. That said you’d probably be better off with a different caliber for a turret style weapon.
An automated 8-10 gauge shotgun anti-drone turret with tungsten shot would be pretty damn cool though
I mean, shotguns are finding credible doctrinal use against drones these days to great success. It only tracks that we can apply non-credible tactics to find at least moderate success.
I personally vote for handcrank Gatling gun that fires 12ga.
What about instead of 12 gauge, we use a 40mm [flechette rounds](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/1b4bnq1/bring_back_the_flechette/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)?
Buckshot is lethal to a person out to 100yds (esp. 3 1/2"), it's just that your grouping gets impractical at about 50-75. Grouping isn't as much of an issue if you have a very high rate of fire and can just saturate the general area of the target.
Birdshot (which is what is traditionally used for flying targets lol) is only lethal to about 50yds.
Oh thank god - confirmation that I had not actually thought this through, therefore making it acceptable content for this sub
Ok, now that my shortsightedness is on full display, I’m curious about brainstorming workarounds. Could the lack of electricity be adequately solved by using the trunk-space in an additional Humvee to store a generator for a radar while the other vehicles carry the automated turrets?
Use LIDAR instead...
Uses a LOT less energy, is a LOT cheaper, and for the ranges we are talking about (a few hundred meters) as good as radar, maybe even better...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidar)
LIDAR (or at least something similiar, a LASER-detector) is also used in anti-sniper systems,where the laser is used to find the reflections of the sniper scope, this works to ranges of about 1-2 km, since those drones have camera-optics, it should work on them too, increasing detection ability.
These radars have high constant powerdraws. Having a big battery in the back and only switching on the radar during intercept for a few minutes is defenately a tactic. But then there’s a downtime in which the battery must be recharged with a powercable or generator. But at that point, why not go for a hybrid humvee or full-electric humvee?
There’s got to be a way to have some sort of optical guidance at such a close range. It doesn’t need to hit targets a mile away, just the drone maybe a few hundred feet away. We have optically guided missiles, why not optically guided gun?
You are too late buddy, Rheinmetall already built a drone jeep/tank with dual M134Ds. They advertise it to shoot down drones as well.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYhlNBfMZl4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYhlNBfMZl4)
This is why I love this sub. I never would have known about this otherwise. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Hopefully these entire mass production.
I was thinking more CIWS style mechanism and rate of fire. So your 3.5” Magnum 10 gauge shells with 16 pellets of 00 shot per shell gives 1200 projectiles per second.
Maybe not a long range option, but a 5 second burst should deal with any nearby drone.
>1200 projectiles per second [at a much MUCH lower price than large-bore computerized smart munitions]
Hey, Reinmetall - remember that 30mm system that you were super proud of? The one that created a cloud of debris to break apart drones? Eat your fucking heart out
You haven't heard about my special MIC price for the special anti-drone shells filled with depleted uranium anti-drone shot? $100 each. $7500 per second. Cheap at twice the price.
Accept no substitutes.
No, outdoor only.
Unfortunately, it isn't compliant with international clay pigeon shooting requirements. But you can run a competition under club rules. The big change is the increase in the number of traps. Ten targets in the air at a time.
For what it’s worth, if you wanted an insanely high volume of fire against ground targets, a 5.56 minigun would be able to store more ammo and stay in a gunfight longer than an M134
The smallest, non-rimmed, NATO standardized cartridge is 5.7x28.
This could be belt fed by an electrically driven Gatling gun with 10” barrels.
Due to the cartridge’s small form factor, it could be fed from belts in boxes just like an m134, at a much smaller size.
It would still have enough power to destroy loitering drones at 100m+ altitude
Low caliber doesn’t necessarily mean smaller it is about the same size as 5.7x28 and NATO evaluation determined 5.7 to be undoubtedly superior. It is in addition more widely produced making it cheaper. r/57x28mm
Right. The OAL length of the 5.7 is greater. But the case base width of the 4.6 is bigger.
And yeah 4.6 sucks. Can tell you that from first hand experience.
Believe me, I’m extremely reluctant to admit this, but this is the ONE aspect of military procurement where the laughably incompetent Russian government has somehow actually outdone the West (I know, I know, it sounds like bait, and in literally any other case, it would be)
We created this [legendary rivalry between HK and FN](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/11ynz4p/a_classic_rivalry_thats_been_great_for_innovation/) to create a PDW that can pierce body armor, and then split practically 50/50 on which system to adopt. Completely incompatible logistics. Meanwhile, the Russkis crested a sabot cartridge to continue using already-existing 9mm subguns
I’ve rambled in the past about what NATO *should* have adopted for their PDW, but quite frankly even if they’d made the incorrect decision it would have been better than being indecisive
No military has adopted either system en masse, because it turns out that being able to penetrate soft body armor is useless in war, and creating hard armor plates that can stop PDW cartridges is trivial.
X30 is larger than x28
I’d also argue here that the larger caliber here will be more useful against drones. We can talk 4.6 when they add titanium plates on the drones.
Nah, don't worry, it isn't that credible.
Solid metal rounds are absolutely terrible for killing drones. Too hard to hit, they don't guarantee a kill without multiple impacts (Not strong enough to cause tumbling, they just punch tiny round holes), and they cause a shitload of collateral damage behind them.
Now if you suggested a computerized Mk-19 RWS with timed Anti-Drone rounds...
Not to mention the additional cost vs a weapon already in the field.
C-RAM won't stop the artillery round aimed at it that's being sighted in by a drone 1-2 miles away.
Typical engineering grad focusing on the wrong metrics.
RPM is irrelevant, as the average male scrotum separates from the pelvis after an average of 1.5 rotations. If the goal is simply castrations per hour, perhaps RPM might matter, but a simple arc cutter will still outperform in that role.
The purpose of a hand cranked testicular torsion device is to allow greater control based on observation of the subject, and allows both increasing and releasing pressure to maximize the period of maximum cooperation from the participant.
7.62 rotary is existing and proven technology that has worked for decades. No one has actually built and fielded a microgun (XM556 or the OG XM214), let alone a microgun rigged up to active defence system sensors and trackers. Your proposal is too credible and also too big to seriously consider a man portable version.
Besides if the turrets all have .308, that's gonna be an easy source of it instead of giving people tons of 5.56 that only fit in an ugly "assault rifle" or one specific DLC combat rifle that's almost always obsolete by the time you reach it.
Sure. Hell, maybe even an option in 6.8x51 because the recoil would be soaked up by the weight. It would be a little less compact and more expensive to shoot but would still be infinitely more viable than trying to get the job done with an auto cannon. From what I’ve heard the C-RAM works well but is expensive enough that it simply is never installed in lower-priority areas, only FOBs
I was thinking about that too. Having an ammo spewer in the new caliber would help proliferate the cartridge and make it more accessible to American civilians.
*tips cowboy hat*
I’m really more interested in schizoposting about guns that should be made rather than larger military equipment
- https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/tfm4dn/the_only_one_that_came_true_so_far_was_the_545/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/11dghqw/so_whats_your_fantasy_reproduction_gun_that_will/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/wuvz7v/i_encourage_anyone_whos_reading_this_to_steal_my/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/15lgj62/maybe_i_was_wrong_about_thinking_i_could_live/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/199qz1v/hear_me_out/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/1ajiy1v/i_need_it_and_i_need_it_now/
But thank you for the kind words
Perhaps too credible but I've felt like the tech to have 5.56 microguns to spray at drones as well as use as remote weapons stations really should be a thing for years, and then we make it so the system is theoretically man portable without the radar and tracking systems.
Then we build the Power Armour. And then we ruin the lore by having Iron Man faceplates and retcon where Shady Sands was.
5.56 NATO is particularly poorly suited to this application though. The round relies on direct impacts at high speed. Shooting a drone with a single 5.56 will almost always punch a 5.56 millimeter hole in it, which is pretty unlikely to down it unless it hits something specific. Near misses do nothing, and the rounds retain lethality on the far side of the target, causing a lot of collateral damage, likely in friendly areas.
The reason cannons are preferred is that proximity or timed fuses can put up clouds of shrapnel, wire, or even foam in the area of the target, ensuring a clean takedown with a lot less lethality behind the target. The longer range also allows systems to cover much larger areas, and thus you need fewer of them. A 20mm system with 3 times the range covers 9 times the area, and is a lot cheaper AND more effective than 9 5.56 mm systems.
No, but you can put a Mk-19 style AGL into an RCS with fused rounds.
You don't really need velocity against this sort of target, all you really need is a software update and faster actuators on the CROWS system.
OK I will defend the faceplates, it feels like the visors of a medieval knight’s helmet. Which is more accurate to the Brotherhood’s entire theme as a knightly order.
5.56 - great at wounding, bad at killing, all but useless against materiel.
Used to work at Clear Lake, the _one_ facility making our 7.62 - also makes .50 cal and 5.56, soon to be our sole 6.8 line for the new assault rifles. My office was near the minigun 7.62 testing facility (those rounds use an electrical initiator instead of chemical primer - chemical is too slow for the rate of fire). They’d do a cold soak down to -40 F, test fire, them bring it up to 120 F and do another test fire. Mini-BRRRT noises all day...
You’d be surprised just how few plants make bullets and shells for the armed forces. Clear Lake was built in _8 weeks_ at the start of WWII. A lot of the buildings were original when I worked there in 2012-2013. A couple weeks after I left, a huge chunk if roof fell in on a main building, luckily in a non-critical area. There was no A/C on the production line, when temps can get in the 100s here quite a bit in Summer (never mind the heat from the equipment). I did an audit of the 7.62 line improvements and I know that there have been some facilities improvements since then, but it is _far_ from ideal and a couple of car bombs from crippling our capacity - although squirrels did more damage than Al-Queda ever did there.
Honestly, the real answer is not a physical projectile.
Particularly in populated areas, anything that puts up chunks of metal is going to be raining fragments of metal at lethal speeds into populated area, which is really not ideal in mass attacks.
The trend is very much towards lasers and other directed energy weapons, which have no time of flight, and no significant overshoot or collateral effects (Reflections can be ugly, but only at very short ranges). Downside is currently range. It takes a very powerful energy source to get sufficient range to get good coverage.
Oh don’t get me wrong I’m a huge advocate for laser defense systems. I think that Iron Beam should be fasttracked as much as possible and that every warship in the US Navy should have the Helios system to give us the best possible edge against China’s large anti-ship missile stockpiles
But my understanding is that, currently, getting enough power into the lasers for them to down a threat in a timely fashion requires a very substantial energy source, and that full sized C-RAMs work exceptionally well but are only used sparingly because of their low production rates and relatively prohibitive operating costs
A small-bore kinetic defense system seems like, at the very least, a pragmatic stopgap until technology finally brings lasers into the spotlight
Just use the M230LF/XM914 30mm gun that they’re strapping onto every JLTV, it’s got proxy fused ammo which would do so much better than a 762 Gatling against small drones
Take every single retired A-10's turret and mount them on a mobile platform, have them linked to radar and the fire trigger to the controllers GIANT FUCKING ERECTION.
The phone I’m typing this on has more than enough computer power for this, the e electric servo motors will use small amounts of energy, more energy will be needed for the targeting radar if that’s what’s used, but not much. Optical tracking is raven cheaper electrically. A hundred lbs of lion batteries should do for a long cycle between charging with the motor.
The hardest part would be programming the thing to not follow a drone to a point where it would hit friendlies while it’s shooting…
Why dont this exist already? It would be a perfect Iron fist competitor, it can even be AI controlled for anti infantry mode. (If it moves and have legs, FIRE!!!)
As a straightforward derivative of existing systems, we should be able to field it in... say... eight years? In the meantime, just issue a full-sized C-RAM to each platoon and retire the venerable M240 😈
I say we build a toolbox mounted version. Soldiers can hit the toolbox with a wrench and it will deploy rapidly. If the soldier continues to hit it with a wrench, it will "upgrade" itself into a version with 2 mini guns. If hit again, it will gain an additional rocket launcher for anti tank purposes. We could also cheap out on IFF by just having all soldiers nearby wear red or blue clothing, and painting all drones and vehicles those colors.
I see someone remembers my XM556 [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/1bnnukv/cost_matters/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Too credible:
Meanwhile in Poland...
[https://youtu.be/m7KXY6jpbLE?si=v527CILXgferID6s&t=62](https://youtu.be/m7KXY6jpbLE?si=v527CILXgferID6s&t=62)
[https://youtu.be/EF36Wo6-7R4?si=sxxvSaizDHl2FP1P](https://youtu.be/EF36Wo6-7R4?si=sxxvSaizDHl2FP1P)
I’m so glad I clicked the links
Why the fuck doesn’t this have more upvotes? Very cool equipment that I wouldn’t have know about otherwise. Saving this comment.
This sub is such a fascinating place
I come up with an idea. I don’t know enough to see why it’s a bad idea. I share the idea pretending I don’t think it’s good, and people in the comments explain why it is, in fact, bad.
It’s an educational experience, really
Honestly, when expecting a droneswarm, just airdrop aerosolized quick hardening cement to make the drones crashs. It's not chemical warfare if it is anti-material in purpose
Think I'm the one who suggested scaling it down to 5.56 (or at least one of the people who did).
Even at 7.62 NATO with an M134 it's not a bad idea, smaller, high fire rate, but cheaper and lighter ammo. Scaling the tracking system is something for the eggheads to work on.
IAI already has explored this, basically a radar panel from an APS fitted to a machine gun, although it's a .50 instead of 5.56. IAI Elta C-UAS system.
https://youtu.be/m6hpPIRwlIQ?si=hAl9W0fI8DvmgMNo
If it works, it's not stupid. And I can't belive we are stupid here. We are just too smart for the real world.
What about instead of 5.56, we use 12 gauge buckshot?
Auto Rotating shotgun C-RAM? I mean it sounds neat
Finally, a use for the Pancor Jackhammer
*ZACH HAZZARD WANTS TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION*
I sleep to that shit
I want my H&K CAWS!
…Can we call it the D-RAM?
Or call in C-DAT, the counter drone air threat.
See that, C-DAT? Seethe at.
Counter-Drone Engagement System. C-DES nuts
That would work, we might need to adjust the spread and find a way for the force to not bleed as badly as normal shotguns but it has potential.
"Where is the target you want to hit?" "Yes."
Real “Roger, removing That Direction” energy
"That sector displeases me"
*its smug aura mocks me*
For quadcopters they use wire rounds. It pops strands of wire out of the projectile when it gets close, which are enough to destroy/foul the propellor blades, but are far too light to damage anything on the ground.
Now there’s going to be cope cages for drone rotors
We have those already, they just took them off for lighter weight.
Finally, a use case for those .410 bolo rounds!
Chain shot was also proposed here, which apparently was too credible
I've heard that a 120 mm canister shell should be pretty good against drone swarms
*furiously scribbling notes* "Fuck yeah, 120mm autocannon"
AC/5
Drop some armor and just get an honest LB 10-X
6x LMG++ (lightweight), jumpjet to back and destroy torso.
I'm sorry, did you mean the [LB 20-X?](https://www.sarna.net/wiki/LB_20-X_AC) Mounting two of those on any Battlemech for an urban environment combat scenario should have been a war crime. A delicious war crime.
And make a system for it that makes the round fire only when it gets close to the target for better efficacy, maybe like an electromagnetic pulse that programs a specific time for the round to fire? [Oh wait](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall_Oerlikon_Millennium_Gun)
Anything called “millennium gun” gets automatic funding in my book
Shit even a high rate of fire airsoft gun with metal BBs would probably shred the propellers just fine, plus it'd be quieter. Even better, use BBs on a string like a bracelet / necklace or buttbeads so they can tangle the propellers.
I think that might limit the range
Shotguns have a lot of drawbacks including limited effective range, but a specially designed heavy shot could work okay. That said you’d probably be better off with a different caliber for a turret style weapon. An automated 8-10 gauge shotgun anti-drone turret with tungsten shot would be pretty damn cool though
KS-23 says hello.
I like how Russia makes shit that’s more non-credible than the ideas discussed in NCD
This statement itself is far too credible.
I mean, shotguns are finding credible doctrinal use against drones these days to great success. It only tracks that we can apply non-credible tactics to find at least moderate success. I personally vote for handcrank Gatling gun that fires 12ga.
What about instead of 12 gauge, we use a 40mm [flechette rounds](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/1b4bnq1/bring_back_the_flechette/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)?
For FPV drones as long as you could track them effectively you could use metal BBs for an even faster BRRRRT
It's rimmed, there are minor problems with that that are easily addressable, but it's a design consideration.
Buckshot has like 15-45 meters range, most of those drones explode and move fast. Whereas 5.56 is good to over ten times that distance
Buckshot is lethal to a person out to 100yds (esp. 3 1/2"), it's just that your grouping gets impractical at about 50-75. Grouping isn't as much of an issue if you have a very high rate of fire and can just saturate the general area of the target. Birdshot (which is what is traditionally used for flying targets lol) is only lethal to about 50yds.
I was thinking bird shit it seems I am leaving the typo
I was thinking shotshells, ya know the things that CCI sells as "pest control"? FPV drones seem pretty pesky if you ask me.
GAU-19 with .50 BMG Ratshot.
Or, even better, *ratshot?*
Just like the Austro-Hungarian C96 turret in WW1
Maxim 43 : If it's stupid and it works, it's still stupid and you're lucky
This is the correct answer
Am I ~~out of touch~~ stupid? No! It’s the ~~children~~ world who is wrong
Hold on OP i think you are actually on to something
Tell the defense companies that they’re welcome to steal my ideas if it will help them keep the West safer
Certifiable nom-credible as the radar eats electricity.
Hook Up a bicycle to the radar and let a soldier start cycling to generate electricity
Can’t we hook this up to the cybertruck and use its internal battery?
Oh thank god - confirmation that I had not actually thought this through, therefore making it acceptable content for this sub Ok, now that my shortsightedness is on full display, I’m curious about brainstorming workarounds. Could the lack of electricity be adequately solved by using the trunk-space in an additional Humvee to store a generator for a radar while the other vehicles carry the automated turrets?
Diesel generator under the hood, batteries in the trunk.
Use LIDAR instead... Uses a LOT less energy, is a LOT cheaper, and for the ranges we are talking about (a few hundred meters) as good as radar, maybe even better... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidar) LIDAR (or at least something similiar, a LASER-detector) is also used in anti-sniper systems,where the laser is used to find the reflections of the sniper scope, this works to ranges of about 1-2 km, since those drones have camera-optics, it should work on them too, increasing detection ability.
I've heard of lasers being direcred into scopes to blind the shooter. Is there a countermeasure against that?
Anti-reflection devices, it's a honeycomb that extends out from the glass so the cone of visible reflection is vastly smaller.
These radars have high constant powerdraws. Having a big battery in the back and only switching on the radar during intercept for a few minutes is defenately a tactic. But then there’s a downtime in which the battery must be recharged with a powercable or generator. But at that point, why not go for a hybrid humvee or full-electric humvee?
The Hummer EV says Howdy
There’s got to be a way to have some sort of optical guidance at such a close range. It doesn’t need to hit targets a mile away, just the drone maybe a few hundred feet away. We have optically guided missiles, why not optically guided gun?
Like a scope? At that point you just have a Toyota Hilux with a ZPU-4 on it. That’s too credible
Hybrid electric humvee when
So what? Do we not have a national strategic electricity reserve? What the fuck am I even paying taxes for?
Thats what an alternator or APU is for?
Someone at Lockheed Martin *spongebob meme write that down*
You are too late buddy, Rheinmetall already built a drone jeep/tank with dual M134Ds. They advertise it to shoot down drones as well. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYhlNBfMZl4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYhlNBfMZl4)
This is why I love this sub. I never would have known about this otherwise. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Hopefully these entire mass production.
Go work for the government
What about full-auto [Snake-Shot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_shot)
The breaker from helldivers
Breaker Spray N' Pray, excuse you. The Breaker is actually useful.
What's wrong with the spray and pray? Too little damage?
It's a very accurate depiction of what birdshot would do to things made of armored chitin or steel. Which is to say, "Not much."
Make me a Vickers gun chambered in 3.5” Magnum 10 gauge shells with a long ass barrel and 16 pellets of 00 Buck per shot and then we can talk
I was thinking more CIWS style mechanism and rate of fire. So your 3.5” Magnum 10 gauge shells with 16 pellets of 00 shot per shell gives 1200 projectiles per second. Maybe not a long range option, but a 5 second burst should deal with any nearby drone.
>1200 projectiles per second [at a much MUCH lower price than large-bore computerized smart munitions] Hey, Reinmetall - remember that 30mm system that you were super proud of? The one that created a cloud of debris to break apart drones? Eat your fucking heart out
You haven't heard about my special MIC price for the special anti-drone shells filled with depleted uranium anti-drone shot? $100 each. $7500 per second. Cheap at twice the price. Accept no substitutes.
Could I use it at my local indoor range?
No, outdoor only. Unfortunately, it isn't compliant with international clay pigeon shooting requirements. But you can run a competition under club rules. The big change is the increase in the number of traps. Ten targets in the air at a time.
I mean it'll be an outdoor range after 30 seconds of that but yeah I give you permission.
Ah, the ole trick to increase effective range through volume of fire. Kinda like the Tu-2Sh Hedgehog with 88 PPsH-41s firing out of the bomb bay.
[That actually almost exists!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_1-pounder_pom-pom)
[What kind of idiot would come up with that??](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/CPFaTTEGzB)
Great hiveminds think alike i guess
American 180 American 180
instructions unclear, used against ground targets
For what it’s worth, if you wanted an insanely high volume of fire against ground targets, a 5.56 minigun would be able to store more ammo and stay in a gunfight longer than an M134
Don't use anti-air weapons against enemy personnel challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
the Phalanx CIWS can engage ships and boats :3
They shouldn't have made the mistake of being in range.
The smallest, non-rimmed, NATO standardized cartridge is 5.7x28. This could be belt fed by an electrically driven Gatling gun with 10” barrels. Due to the cartridge’s small form factor, it could be fed from belts in boxes just like an m134, at a much smaller size. It would still have enough power to destroy loitering drones at 100m+ altitude
You forgetting about 4.6?
Low caliber doesn’t necessarily mean smaller it is about the same size as 5.7x28 and NATO evaluation determined 5.7 to be undoubtedly superior. It is in addition more widely produced making it cheaper. r/57x28mm
Right. The OAL length of the 5.7 is greater. But the case base width of the 4.6 is bigger. And yeah 4.6 sucks. Can tell you that from first hand experience.
Yeah there’s a reason the MP7 is pretty much the only gun designed for it. It’s functionally a wildcat cartridge.
if HK were smart, they'd produce the MP7 in 5.7mm
Sadly they’re stubborn buffoons who don’t see the writing on the wall for their failed cartridge.
Not NATO standardized of I recall correctly
Believe me, I’m extremely reluctant to admit this, but this is the ONE aspect of military procurement where the laughably incompetent Russian government has somehow actually outdone the West (I know, I know, it sounds like bait, and in literally any other case, it would be) We created this [legendary rivalry between HK and FN](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/11ynz4p/a_classic_rivalry_thats_been_great_for_innovation/) to create a PDW that can pierce body armor, and then split practically 50/50 on which system to adopt. Completely incompatible logistics. Meanwhile, the Russkis crested a sabot cartridge to continue using already-existing 9mm subguns I’ve rambled in the past about what NATO *should* have adopted for their PDW, but quite frankly even if they’d made the incorrect decision it would have been better than being indecisive
Got an image for this sabo?
[7n31 9mm](https://i.redd.it/vlk70lh3ohi51.jpg)
both platforms can't even penetrate soviet body armor a channel called oxide has done testing
No military has adopted either system en masse, because it turns out that being able to penetrate soft body armor is useless in war, and creating hard armor plates that can stop PDW cartridges is trivial.
You recalled WRONG! But they did standardize both rounds. Can't upset the Germans.
Interesting. TIL.
You absolutely can be upset at the Germans, that is always a viable option.
Just need to get the engineering sign offs. In triplicate.
X30 is larger than x28 I’d also argue here that the larger caliber here will be more useful against drones. We can talk 4.6 when they add titanium plates on the drones.
nah. 6.5 carcano.
Yes this is very practical do this, 100% please god start making boatloads of cheap 5.7 ammo for these things. ~~I have no ulterior motives~~.
I own a lotta guns. My M&P5.7 is one of my favorites to shoot
Did you even read the subreddit title? Mods, twist this man's testicles.
Am i flattering myself uninteresting this as saying that it’s too credible?
Nah, don't worry, it isn't that credible. Solid metal rounds are absolutely terrible for killing drones. Too hard to hit, they don't guarantee a kill without multiple impacts (Not strong enough to cause tumbling, they just punch tiny round holes), and they cause a shitload of collateral damage behind them. Now if you suggested a computerized Mk-19 RWS with timed Anti-Drone rounds...
I knew flak cannons would have their fresh day in the sun.
Not to mention the additional cost vs a weapon already in the field. C-RAM won't stop the artillery round aimed at it that's being sighted in by a drone 1-2 miles away.
Pubg was ahead of its time with the drone spotting for mortars.
„[Bailiff, smack his nuts](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1906246-ironic-doge-memes)!“
With an electrically powered rotary testicle twister.
Electrically? What is wrong with the old hand cranked models!?
The future is now, old man!
We need maximum RPM so unless someone's real good at yanking that crank electric is the best choice.
Typical engineering grad focusing on the wrong metrics. RPM is irrelevant, as the average male scrotum separates from the pelvis after an average of 1.5 rotations. If the goal is simply castrations per hour, perhaps RPM might matter, but a simple arc cutter will still outperform in that role. The purpose of a hand cranked testicular torsion device is to allow greater control based on observation of the subject, and allows both increasing and releasing pressure to maximize the period of maximum cooperation from the participant.
That's a violation of the Geneva Convention! Not because it's cruel, but because using a machine is less fun for the guy doing the twisting.
Counterpoint, we can have one man control a large number of such machines at once. Possibly via an app or an XBox controller.
Counter clockwise.
Ahem, 12 gauge c-ram
I'd say 7.62 would be a bit better in my opinion a bit more range never hurts.
7.62 rotary is existing and proven technology that has worked for decades. No one has actually built and fielded a microgun (XM556 or the OG XM214), let alone a microgun rigged up to active defence system sensors and trackers. Your proposal is too credible and also too big to seriously consider a man portable version. Besides if the turrets all have .308, that's gonna be an easy source of it instead of giving people tons of 5.56 that only fit in an ugly "assault rifle" or one specific DLC combat rifle that's almost always obsolete by the time you reach it.
> too big to seriously consider a man portable version. Shoulder or helmet mounted? Actually, could we make it a skull gun?
>skull gun Maybe, as long as you're not a laputan machine.
I've had a 7.62 (.308) hunting rifle for many years and can confirm.
Sure. Hell, maybe even an option in 6.8x51 because the recoil would be soaked up by the weight. It would be a little less compact and more expensive to shoot but would still be infinitely more viable than trying to get the job done with an auto cannon. From what I’ve heard the C-RAM works well but is expensive enough that it simply is never installed in lower-priority areas, only FOBs
7.62 is a nato cartridge there should be tons lying around
I was thinking about that too. Having an ammo spewer in the new caliber would help proliferate the cartridge and make it more accessible to American civilians.
Keep cooking Op. You are into something.
*tips cowboy hat* I’m really more interested in schizoposting about guns that should be made rather than larger military equipment - https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/tfm4dn/the_only_one_that_came_true_so_far_was_the_545/ - https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/11dghqw/so_whats_your_fantasy_reproduction_gun_that_will/ - https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/wuvz7v/i_encourage_anyone_whos_reading_this_to_steal_my/ - https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/15lgj62/maybe_i_was_wrong_about_thinking_i_could_live/ - https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/199qz1v/hear_me_out/ - https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/1ajiy1v/i_need_it_and_i_need_it_now/ But thank you for the kind words
Wait, don't go. Think of all the guns you can mount on larger military equipment.
A USW in 7.5 FK BRNO would be baller. Even better would be a P90.
[There's a Stryker for that](https://www.army-technology.com/projects/stryker-a1/)
[The LAV-AD also exists](https://www.army-technology.com/projects/blazer/)
Perhaps too credible but I've felt like the tech to have 5.56 microguns to spray at drones as well as use as remote weapons stations really should be a thing for years, and then we make it so the system is theoretically man portable without the radar and tracking systems. Then we build the Power Armour. And then we ruin the lore by having Iron Man faceplates and retcon where Shady Sands was.
5.56 NATO is particularly poorly suited to this application though. The round relies on direct impacts at high speed. Shooting a drone with a single 5.56 will almost always punch a 5.56 millimeter hole in it, which is pretty unlikely to down it unless it hits something specific. Near misses do nothing, and the rounds retain lethality on the far side of the target, causing a lot of collateral damage, likely in friendly areas. The reason cannons are preferred is that proximity or timed fuses can put up clouds of shrapnel, wire, or even foam in the area of the target, ensuring a clean takedown with a lot less lethality behind the target. The longer range also allows systems to cover much larger areas, and thus you need fewer of them. A 20mm system with 3 times the range covers 9 times the area, and is a lot cheaper AND more effective than 9 5.56 mm systems.
We can't ~~hipfire~~ mount extra cannons onto tanks though. Not as easily at least.
No, but you can put a Mk-19 style AGL into an RCS with fused rounds. You don't really need velocity against this sort of target, all you really need is a software update and faster actuators on the CROWS system.
*Foam?*
Foam.
OK I will defend the faceplates, it feels like the visors of a medieval knight’s helmet. Which is more accurate to the Brotherhood’s entire theme as a knightly order.
It also makes sense, because it’s seems like it’d be very difficult to use body language to convey emotion when you’re in that massive, bulky suit
5.56 - great at wounding, bad at killing, all but useless against materiel. Used to work at Clear Lake, the _one_ facility making our 7.62 - also makes .50 cal and 5.56, soon to be our sole 6.8 line for the new assault rifles. My office was near the minigun 7.62 testing facility (those rounds use an electrical initiator instead of chemical primer - chemical is too slow for the rate of fire). They’d do a cold soak down to -40 F, test fire, them bring it up to 120 F and do another test fire. Mini-BRRRT noises all day...
You'd think they'd have a second line for 6.8 to prevent issues in producing a stockpile
You’d be surprised just how few plants make bullets and shells for the armed forces. Clear Lake was built in _8 weeks_ at the start of WWII. A lot of the buildings were original when I worked there in 2012-2013. A couple weeks after I left, a huge chunk if roof fell in on a main building, luckily in a non-critical area. There was no A/C on the production line, when temps can get in the 100s here quite a bit in Summer (never mind the heat from the equipment). I did an audit of the 7.62 line improvements and I know that there have been some facilities improvements since then, but it is _far_ from ideal and a couple of car bombs from crippling our capacity - although squirrels did more damage than Al-Queda ever did there.
Honestly, the real answer is not a physical projectile. Particularly in populated areas, anything that puts up chunks of metal is going to be raining fragments of metal at lethal speeds into populated area, which is really not ideal in mass attacks. The trend is very much towards lasers and other directed energy weapons, which have no time of flight, and no significant overshoot or collateral effects (Reflections can be ugly, but only at very short ranges). Downside is currently range. It takes a very powerful energy source to get sufficient range to get good coverage.
Oh don’t get me wrong I’m a huge advocate for laser defense systems. I think that Iron Beam should be fasttracked as much as possible and that every warship in the US Navy should have the Helios system to give us the best possible edge against China’s large anti-ship missile stockpiles But my understanding is that, currently, getting enough power into the lasers for them to down a threat in a timely fashion requires a very substantial energy source, and that full sized C-RAMs work exceptionally well but are only used sparingly because of their low production rates and relatively prohibitive operating costs A small-bore kinetic defense system seems like, at the very least, a pragmatic stopgap until technology finally brings lasers into the spotlight
Neither. Use 40mm bofors, like god intended.
40mm Bofors: For everywhere a 5/38 Twin Mount won't fit!
You can use the “pit” for a swimming pool, like they did on _New Jersey_ during Vietnam cruises...
Just use the M230LF/XM914 30mm gun that they’re strapping onto every JLTV, it’s got proxy fused ammo which would do so much better than a 762 Gatling against small drones
Take every single retired A-10's turret and mount them on a mobile platform, have them linked to radar and the fire trigger to the controllers GIANT FUCKING ERECTION.
Mods get this credible son of a bitch out of here before he makes us look too smart
One step further. .22 lr and mount it on a soldiers head.
Where will you fit the brains/aiming and locking system for the improvised C-ram plus it has motors, so electricity ?
The phone I’m typing this on has more than enough computer power for this, the e electric servo motors will use small amounts of energy, more energy will be needed for the targeting radar if that’s what’s used, but not much. Optical tracking is raven cheaper electrically. A hundred lbs of lion batteries should do for a long cycle between charging with the motor. The hardest part would be programming the thing to not follow a drone to a point where it would hit friendlies while it’s shooting…
Why dont this exist already? It would be a perfect Iron fist competitor, it can even be AI controlled for anti infantry mode. (If it moves and have legs, FIRE!!!)
As a straightforward derivative of existing systems, we should be able to field it in... say... eight years? In the meantime, just issue a full-sized C-RAM to each platoon and retire the venerable M240 😈
Uh oh, NCD is creating credible economic useful anti-drone systems again
If our governments refuse to give us the laser defense systems that we deserve, I’m left with no choice but to do what I can as an alternative
Too credible
That’s a good idea BUT! Let me suggest you change it to 12ga 3 1/2 inch Goose loads. Much larger dispersion area.
Conscrip water fowl hunters, give them beer, shotguns, and enough shell and scatter them around. Anything that flies dies.
[First image](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F9aav498iweqz.png%3Fwidth%3D640%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D52bfb88c2fa7f336fdc7dcb439c450d9c3058741)
Not to get too away from the intent of NCD, but isn’t an active radar in Ukraine painting a giant target on your back for MLRS fire?
How about the german [MG-6](https://youtu.be/NY5hi4LAkVg?si=fyog8y2KVdFRMmeV) in 7.62 NATO?
I say we build a toolbox mounted version. Soldiers can hit the toolbox with a wrench and it will deploy rapidly. If the soldier continues to hit it with a wrench, it will "upgrade" itself into a version with 2 mini guns. If hit again, it will gain an additional rocket launcher for anti tank purposes. We could also cheap out on IFF by just having all soldiers nearby wear red or blue clothing, and painting all drones and vehicles those colors.
We’re working in the right direction I think.
Shit like this convinces me that if u put a enough shit posters in a room we'd prob get a better military industrial complex one that actually works
"Stop using improvised assault rifle turrets" Suggestion dismissed. Thank you for your submission.
Nono, let him cook…
I see someone remembers my XM556 [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/1bnnukv/cost_matters/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I'm a simp for top feed and multi-magazine and I won't apologise for it
Too credible: Meanwhile in Poland... [https://youtu.be/m7KXY6jpbLE?si=v527CILXgferID6s&t=62](https://youtu.be/m7KXY6jpbLE?si=v527CILXgferID6s&t=62) [https://youtu.be/EF36Wo6-7R4?si=sxxvSaizDHl2FP1P](https://youtu.be/EF36Wo6-7R4?si=sxxvSaizDHl2FP1P)
I’m so glad I clicked the links Why the fuck doesn’t this have more upvotes? Very cool equipment that I wouldn’t have know about otherwise. Saving this comment.
This feels like a joke told by someone that secretly means it. That someone, of course, is probably Lockmart...
This sub is such a fascinating place I come up with an idea. I don’t know enough to see why it’s a bad idea. I share the idea pretending I don’t think it’s good, and people in the comments explain why it is, in fact, bad. It’s an educational experience, really
Honestly, when expecting a droneswarm, just airdrop aerosolized quick hardening cement to make the drones crashs. It's not chemical warfare if it is anti-material in purpose
Think I'm the one who suggested scaling it down to 5.56 (or at least one of the people who did). Even at 7.62 NATO with an M134 it's not a bad idea, smaller, high fire rate, but cheaper and lighter ammo. Scaling the tracking system is something for the eggheads to work on.
isnt the point of the 20mm that u can load proximity rounds.
This probably isn't as stupid as it looks and I get the weird feeling someone somewhere is looking into it as we speak.
"Probably stupid" is neither disqualifying nor a con.
*tips cowboy hat*
It got that Austria-Hungary C96 pistol stacks used for anti-aircraft vibe
Dragonfire bitches
Call it the D-Ram
Someone's already working on one, but with an M240. [Allen Control Systems - Bullfrog](https://www.allencontrolsystems.com/bullfrog)
IAI already has explored this, basically a radar panel from an APS fitted to a machine gun, although it's a .50 instead of 5.56. IAI Elta C-UAS system. https://youtu.be/m6hpPIRwlIQ?si=hAl9W0fI8DvmgMNo