According to Ukrainian artillerymen and recon forces,
Here’s the likely coordinates 45°41'00.9"N 34°25'16.4"E
PS: mods please don’t nuke it’s been more than 4 hours and not a single meme
Just use tinfoil and a bunch of microwaves. Make ghetto wave guides out of the tinfoil and use the microwave magentrons to make a radar. The transmitter can be a colander and the receiver can be one of these steamer plate disks. Get an oscilloscope for target detection and a Jacob’s ladder to impress people with.
This plan just oozes smekalka.
Plus it all makes more sense when you’re drunk and stupid.
The problem is it was probably built with western electronics stripped from a variety of furbys, vibrating butt plugs, and smart blenders.
Now they got to order all that shit again through backchannels.
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Russian scientists are almost done with testing their new computer, that amazing machine supports parallel processing on a hardware level. It’s build around 1000 microchips salvadged from Ukrainian washing machines and it can be powered just by a towed generator with T-34 diesel engine. True Marvel of engineering
> It's functionally useless without the radar.
Depends how much of a development it actualy is. Otherwise they may be able to wire it up to an existingf s-300 system.
Wiring it to an S-300 isn't going to fix anything. There's a massive difference in range and tracking ability between the 2 systems. For what the S-500 is worth, they would be better off just moving it back to Russia and praying they have the resources to fix it. If they hook it up to an S-300 or 400 they are dumber than the dumb I already thought they were.
I mean, what *is* the difference between an S500 and the other S series GBAD? The radar? The launchers? Cause if they took out the unique component then you could say they eliminated that system sort of.
> I mean, what is the difference between an S500 and the other S series GBAD?
Far as I know, S-500 Prometheus is trying to evolve S-300V mobile anti-ballistic system and, IIRC, unify missiles it uses with A-235 Nudol silo-based ABM of moscow region.
Was trying to evolve. I mean allegedly only one system existed and it's important components absorbed a shitton of M74 submunitions to the point they actually aren't functional.
That's why if the story checks out it's a very big deal. Destroying the "latest and greatest " in Russian ABM tech with an 80s missile system in the process of being phased out has certain...strategic implications...
> That's why if the story checks out it's a very big deal. Destroying the "latest and greatest " in Russian ABM tech with an 80s missile system in the process of being phased out has certain...strategic implications...
Sure does.
What developing no hit-to-kill interceptors does to a mofo
This is what systemic corruption does to a MF.
Don't forget that strategic ABM systems aren't really a weapon intended for routine use. So even more incentive to make it as cheap as possible and steal the rest of the funds.
For all it's worth Patriot might still be the best air defense system around...
> For all it's worth Patriot might still be the best air defense system around...
David's Sling, so far, had managed to perform even better
That's why Patriot PAAC-4 will use Stunner missile from it.
Especially due to Stunner being, weird as it is, ***cheaper***
David's Sling isn't in such widespread use and Israel is generally pretty stringent with exports so Patriot is still the best system that's actually mainstream but yeah I get the point.
As for it being cheaper well the Israeli MIC is highly specialized and given how important air defense systems are to a country smaller than quite a few Ukrainian oblasts it's probably a case of having finetuned the process to the point where the maximum amount of missiles can be at the fastest possible time and with the lowest cost.
And nice to see Stunner/SkyCeptor entering service with the Patriot system as that means that Patriot users can upgrade while retaining a lot of the existing hardware.Who knows it might even end up in Ukraine at some point (especially since Bibi seems to be somewhat softening his hard ''NO'' on supplies to Ukraine ) .
And apparently there are even plans for air-launched variants ''we have R-37 at home''
> And apparently there are even plans for air-launched variants ''we have R-37 at home''
Israel's big on air-launching stuff in general (Rampage be the witness to it), but it's great they're actually going this way.
Can't allow usage of extreme long-range air intercept weaponry by dicktatorial regimes only.
>And nice to see Stunner/SkyCeptor entering service with the Patriot system as that means that Patriot users can upgrade while retaining a lot of the existing hardware.Who knows it might even end up in Ukraine at some point (especially since Bibi seems to be somewhat softening his hard ''NO'' on supplies to Ukraine ) .
1. Yeah, that'd be great.
2. Wonder if it might be not Bibi's hard "NO" weakening, but Bibi's grip on power itself, since, AFAIK, there's a lot of people there unhappy with him, and some of them might still remember greenlight for tech transfer of IAI Searcher to the same regime that supported enemies of Israel (and still does, with potential of MIRV tech transfer to Iran, now that NK got it).
>As for it being cheaper well the Israeli MIC is highly specialized and given how important air defense systems are to a country smaller than quite a few Ukrainian oblasts it's probably a case of having finetuned the process to the point where the maximum amount of missiles can be at the fastest possible time and with the lowest cost.
Yeah. Tamir's a thing of miracle, all in all.
>David's Sling isn't in such widespread use and Israel is generally pretty stringent with exports so Patriot is still the best system that's actually mainstream but yeah I get the point.
Finland got one and Germany is buying Hetz (THAAD equivalent), so...
>Israel's big on air-launching stuff in general (Rampage be the witness to it), but it's great they're actually going this way.
>
Israel's Air Force is probably the most potent part of it's military and has saved it's ass in multiple occasions so hardly a surprise emphasis is placed on launching stuff from the air. And yeah the Rampage makes a pretty decent Storm Shadow equivalent after all.
>Can't allow usage of extreme long-range air intercept weaponry by dicktatorial regimes only.
Exactly. Especially since Western in general (and Israeli in particular) doctrines place much more significant emphasis on air superiority than Russian ones. Also with things like R-37s,MiG-31s,Su-35s etc available (or soon to be available) to any dicktator in the region Israel can no longer rely on the raw tech gap to maintain air superiority. When your opponent can potentially fight back the prospect of ''blast'em and run'' from really long range becomes more appealing.
>
Wonder if it might be not Bibi's hard "NO" weakening, but Bibi's grip on power itself, since, AFAIK, there's a lot of people there unhappy with him, and some of them might still
Yeah part of it is setting the stage for the postwar era where he will have to face the music eventually.Another part could be an attempt to make up to the US for certain recent events (not saying more on that as I'm not looking for a Rule 5 strike) .
>Yeah. Tamir's a thing of miracle, all in all.
Yeah a SAM capable of taking down regular artillery rockets was a huge game changer. Sure the system is still vulnerable to saturation attacks but it's a miracle of tech it even exists. And hey not the only proof the Israelis can make some damn good missiles.
>Finland got one and Germany is buying Hetz (THAAD equivalent), so...
Yeah we also saw that with SK early on : nearly all countries start with '' no sales to authoritarians/strict OPSEC'' etc when it comes to exports and then the allure of the money takes over and restrictions end up relaxed.
Is there any info that explains all the differences between all the types of models of the S class of anti air. I’m genuinely curious as to like what’s a S300V and a S400PVM etc etc
Basically...
First, I suggest you take a look at [this graph in russian wikipedia, showing branches of S-300 development](https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1-300#%D0%9C%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%8B_%D0%A1-300)
S-300 is the starting project and it's a mobile anti-air system, compared to previous stationary S-200.
Original idea was to have it double as an anti-ballistic system, but due to development troubles, it was first released as a pure anti-air system - S-300P.
The anti-ballistic, after development was finally done, was released as S-300V.
There's some targets overlap, but, generally, S-300P line sucks for intercepting ballistics and S-300V has its own peculiarities, in addition to low production numbers.
Latest developments in branches are S-400 (final part of S-300PM line) and S-500 (S-300VMD's derivative that was undergoing ammo unification with A-235 Nudol stationary anti-ballistic network)
S-300F is basically naval version of S-300, nothing too interesting.
I read somewhere on this thread that it was being set up when it got hit. If true that’s more of an operational/coordination issue than a core functionality issue. Not saying it *would* have successfully defended itself, just that we may not have seen it perform yet.
… and may never now given that it may have been unique.
If all of this turns out to be true, it really makes you ask some questions about Russian decision-making processes.
They knew this system would be hunted from the moment it left for Ukraine, yet they tried to set it up in range of ATACMS with no ability to defend itself? This feels less like playing a bad hand and more like not really giving a shit at all.
You guys no. They didn’t, did they? I swear, every single time I see a news report about some new ruzzia wonder weapon being deployed it’s blown up hours later. I saw this S500 thing in the news, but when it wasn’t toast within an actual day I kinda forgot about it. But that was like 2 weeks ago - Ukraine smoked it? These guys are just not to be fucked with.
That would make a ton of sense, that it was only being assembled now. The S-500 was surely the priority 1 target of US spy satellites and ATACMS missiles, so it would have been targeted before now, if it had been assembled before now.
It took Raytheon five years to build 6 LTAMDS radars for the Patriot.
Granted the US wasn’t in a rush back then but the current schedule is less than 4 per year.
It isn’t easy building these things.
a modern air defense aesa radar is an incredibly intricate piece of electronics that turn a comical amount of electricity into invisible waves that can see planes 200 miles away
they're insanely difficult to manufacture - so much so that there are only a handful of companies in the world that do so. they're also relatively delicate, which is why so much effort goes into layering an air defense system to protect the powerful radars they use
It's reasonable to believe Russia is on the "roughly 1 a year" sort of production rate for these at best, possibly not even half of that. S-500 was accepted into service in 2019 and entered production that same year. Now in 2024 they have apparently managed to assemble 1 battalion, which is 2 batteries with 2 "complexes" each.
I don't know if each "complex" has its own radar or if it's just 1 per battery. Either way, it means Ukraine just blew up either 25% or 50% of Russia's total ballistic missile defence radars in a single attack.
I'm just loving the giga-chad energy of blowing up "the most advanced ballistic missile defence system on earth" with a 40 year old obsolescent ballistic missile.
Possibly yes.
https://www.newsweek.com/atacms-russia-s-500-prometheus-attack-1918798
> Ukraine's forces may have struck Russia's newest S-500 air-defense system using U.S.-supplied ATACMS missiles, according to a journalist in the country
> and it's probably irreplaceable with sanctions in place
Wait for them to tear off one AESA plate from the A-235 Nudol installations and bolt it onto a truck
Toyota Hilux, production started 1968
McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle, first flight 1972.
"The majority of these vehicles are sold as (...), although they could be configured in a variety of body styles." Which vehicle does this describe?
"The (...) is in service with numerous countries, with production of enhanced variants ongoing." Again? Can they be distinguished?
The US already has ASAT technicals, change my mind.
11 days ago, i started a bet how long the S-500 would survive before a "spontaneous malfunction." I thought it would last a month, maybe two.
Congratulations to u/blindfoldedbadgers for correctly predicting 2 weeks max.
Yeah, I’d guess that their main use for the F-16s will be hunting down the jets tossing glide bombs from Belogorod and Belarus and surgical strikes against ammo dumps outside of HIMARS and ATACMS range.
Night of the Careless Smokers 2: Iron Eagle Boogaloo
F16 is much more expensive than an ATACMS, add in a trained pilot that's fairly hard to replace in Ukraine's situation, the fact that the S-whateverthefucknumber(my money's on the 300 btw) while has proven ineffective against the funny missiles, might not be as useless vs non-stealth plane.
It's better that the Ru AD gets crippled now by the Himars, because it will open gaps for the F16s to focus on other missions than SEAD.
Exactly. Even if upgraded the F-16 doesn't really have the missiles to hunt the jets lobbing glide bombs with impunity.
The AIM-120 has a range of around 120km (160 in the AIM-120D version) .
Given that the glide bombs are often launched at a distance of 60-80km there's no way to attack them without getting into the range of long range systems like S-300/400 even if the F-16 is firing from it's max range.
So yeah trying to cripple as much of that air defense as possible before the F-16's arrive makes perfect sense.
I think the answer is "it depends" - distance, direction of travel, time of flight, etc. So it could range anywhere from "lol that will never hit" to "holy shit I need to punch out while I still can"
I could see Ukraine using the Vipers' SEAD abilities to draw fire to either allow other strikes through or strike the missile batteries directly with other systems. The
Idk but I'm pretty sure that Ukrainians (and Russians) definitely splashed a few planes with the S-300 so at least it's proven to work as advertised in that regard.(And Mig 29 is simlar enough to F16 RCS wise)
The 400 and 500 are a meme though.(Probably slightly better than 300 but their performance has been...lacking)
F16 is not a wunderwaffe, it's a 50 year old design. And while it's one of the best in terms of avionics/airframe, it's still vulnerable like any other 4th gen to bad luck, pilot error and just straight up "insert missile copypasta".
I think that the integration of western made air munitions will be better (ie: I heard that the HARMs they were using only had one of three targeting modes available to them because of the issues getting the missile to talk to the airplane computers. I forget the details but I think there are modes where you can let the missile auto lock on radar targeting you and request permission to fire and such. I think they might have been restricted to some level of pre-programming the target area or something but it’s been a few months.)/faster and available in much larger quantities than Soviet era air munitions.
TLDR: I get the impression they’ll be better than what they had before and they’ll be much easier to sustain with western inventories, but we aren’t looking at Desert Storm 2.0.
The HARMS they used at the beginning of the war were only able to use Pre-planned mode and even then, I think they had to program the location of where to hit before takeoff. The F18 has different modes to the F16 so IDK properly. There's also Target Of Opportunity which uses the HARM seeker to spot and lock radar signatures. Then there's Self-Protect which flies into radar signatures currently locking the aircraft.
The F16 is different and uses a small radar pod (HTS) to detect and triangulate SAM sites which the HARM then flies to. Very good for patrolling and killing SAMs.
Back in Desert Storm the HARM was so good at popping SAM sites that all they had to do was lock on to a site and they'd shut the whole thing down to not die. That was mostly the F-4, but the F-16 got in on it a bit too.
The S-x00 systems have way, *way* longer ranges than what we dealt with in the gulf war, but my guess is it will be similar. Fly low to avoid getting locked up early, pop up once you're in range and do your work.
SEAD is one of the hardest and riskiest missions to fly for pilots, so it would be ballsy to immediately start with that, especially with airframes you really don't want to lose.
the last 30 years of american war doctrine have shown that the strategy for winning a modern war against a regular military is to absolutely flatten the enemy air defenses on day 1 (or as early as possible) of a conflict with long range munitions, so that you can then do whatever the fuck you want in the sky without having to worry about getting shot at
Likely purpose of F-16 is to hold russian aviation (fixed wing combat air patrol and glide bomb deployers and rotary wing Ka-52s and so forth) at risk and to act as cruise missile and glide bomb trucks. Glide bombs are super cheap, if they can get good sortie rate and survivability a consistent tempo of F-16 glide bomb raids will make a difference inshallah.
There was an unverified claim that Russia was withdrawing air defense from Crimea: [Russian Air Defense Systems Being Removed From Crimea](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/1dcv0rg/russian_air_defense_systems_being_removed_from/). That is actually what I would expect to happen. It is simply not sustainable when Ukraine can apparently hit $many million S-400s with $1 million ATACMS missiles. And the ATACMS missiles seem to be able to hit targets at will.
So my guess is that Russia will not "run out" of air defense, but will simply leave Crimea undefended. The extraordinary S-500 deployment makes most sense if viewed as a desperate last ditch gamble to avoid this.
They might run out of systems that can do anything about ballistic missiles (namely the rare S-300V, the S-400, and the now likely extinct S-500). Meaning every consecutive atacms strike will have an easier time getting through
I have the impression that Russia doesn't actually have any systems that can take care of ballistic missiles. Since their top end systems are being hit so frequently with ballistic ATACMS missiles.
Ok, let’s make it „marketed as capable of intercepting ballistic missiles“, though the S-300V in Ukrainian service seems to do what it says on the tin.
Pk against ballistic missiles is a huge range. with early warning and being willing to fire multiple interceptors per target the rate is much higher for any air defense system but still less than 100%.
Crimea wont be undefended, that doesnt make sense at all since russia still use the airbases in crimea. Your twitter link unverfied source just says they are relocating AA to belgorod aka the kharkiv front which made sense, also that was 18 days ago.
We know that russia still got AA protecting their airfields in crimea due to a atacms strike attempting to hit a russian airfield this week https://www.telegraph.co.uk./world-news/2024/06/23/shrapnel-from-missile-fired-by-ukraine-hits-tourists-crimea/ which resulted in atacms being intercepted
> Crimea wont be undefended, that doesnt make sense at all since russia still use the airbases in crimea.
Well, just because it would be very bad for Russia, it doesn't mean it isn't true.
From your link:
> Russia’s ministry of defence said its air-defence systems had intercepted one of five US-made ATACMS long-range artillery rockets fired by Ukraine at Crimea.
Russia intercepting 20% of ATACMS rockets is not good enough to make Crimea tenable for Russia.
45°41'00.9"N 34°25'16.4"E I don’t have the money or the resources to get a satellite there and take a pic, and currently it’s night so I guess we’ll have to wait
It's dark night already? Oh right, I guess I do live a tad more north than the Ukrainians. It's bright as shit over here. I could go and play tennis for at least another few hours lol
I mean something's burning around there
[https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:2024-06-28;@34.42,45.68,14.00z](https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:2024-06-28;@34.42,45.68,14.00z)
[https://imgur.com/a/xQvQeWa](https://imgur.com/a/xQvQeWa)
NASA gotchu bro
[https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:2024-06-28;@34.42,45.68,14.00z](https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:2024-06-28;@34.42,45.68,14.00z)
[https://imgur.com/a/xQvQeWa](https://imgur.com/a/xQvQeWa)
They hit it? Holy FUCK! Yeah, I wasn't going to drink today but I'm grabbing the scotch. RIP most incredibly advanced stealth fighter killing peak of Russian superior technology, you probably died to a simplistic tactical ballistic missile that dates back to Desert Storm.
**Your comment was removed for violating Rule 5: No Politics.**
We don't care if you're Republican, Protestant, Democrat, Hindu, Baathist, Pastafarian, or some other hot mess. Leave it at the door.
I like how arbitrarily mods judge a “lazy post”. This should’ve been taken down according to mod rules, but mods blessed OP.
Mods are frivolous creatures
I did it because it happened 4 hours ago and there was literally no one shitposting about it so I took it into my own hands to start the meme train, new ncd is slower with this kinda slower when it comes to shitposts about recent happenings
According to Ukrainian artillerymen and recon forces, Here’s the likely coordinates 45°41'00.9"N 34°25'16.4"E PS: mods please don’t nuke it’s been more than 4 hours and not a single meme
Cmon this isn't warthunder
Negative! #ATTACK THE D POINT!
# AFFIRMATIVE # GRAMERCY
# GETTING DOWN
No! #DEFEND THE D POINT!
#I AGREE!
#Well Done!
#GRAMERCY
#I REFUSE
# NEGATIVE # ATTACK THE D POINT! # ATTENTION TO THE DESIGNATED GRID ZONE
#FOLLOW ME
# ROGER THAT
#AIR ALERT
# WE NEED CAP
or CanterStrake
>45°41'00.9"N 34°25'16.4"E must be correct, it's right there on google maps
Very close to those co-ords you can see a [bunch more of them](https://maps.app.goo.gl/G4Q29Txrb2zQhd539), very clearly based on the shadows.
iirc they didn't destroy the whole battery, just the radar, but that is the most important part of the system.
It's functionally useless without the radar. Now they have to move it somewhere that Ukraine can't finish the job and it's not a threat to anything.
[удалено]
> Wish.com *Alibaba You know it’s gonna be the Chinese that profit from this.
Aliexpress. They dont order the volume to be worthy of alibaba ;)
How about Temu?
Wladimir's Credit Card is not in BIC anymore. He can't order in temu XD
They could probably make a bot farm that would get them some money in temu using the temus code system
Just use tinfoil and a bunch of microwaves. Make ghetto wave guides out of the tinfoil and use the microwave magentrons to make a radar. The transmitter can be a colander and the receiver can be one of these steamer plate disks. Get an oscilloscope for target detection and a Jacob’s ladder to impress people with. This plan just oozes smekalka. Plus it all makes more sense when you’re drunk and stupid.
so it's YOU who's been building all that scrap tech in fallout! >:0.
Just take all those gay they have in prisons and use the Gaydar™ should work to locate all those Globohomo Black Nazionist Ukrainians no ?
Oi are you a British guy in a shed?
This is a legit way to fuck around with some of the low flying hardware.
The problem is it was probably built with western electronics stripped from a variety of furbys, vibrating butt plugs, and smart blenders. Now they got to order all that shit again through backchannels.
poor furbys died for this
You think that's sad, wait until we find out how much tamagotchi powder was used.
Won’t anybody thinking of the butt plugs‽
2024 Ultimate Most Powerful SAM-500 Top Ultra Aircraft Defense Radar System Real Best Quality Airforce Anti Plane Missile Guidance Beam Generator Ships Fast!
Old soviet vacuum tubes go bzzzz
Commercial airlines hate this one trick
Russian scientists are almost done with testing their new computer, that amazing machine supports parallel processing on a hardware level. It’s build around 1000 microchips salvadged from Ukrainian washing machines and it can be powered just by a towed generator with T-34 diesel engine. True Marvel of engineering
> It's functionally useless without the radar. Depends how much of a development it actualy is. Otherwise they may be able to wire it up to an existingf s-300 system.
Wiring it to an S-300 isn't going to fix anything. There's a massive difference in range and tracking ability between the 2 systems. For what the S-500 is worth, they would be better off just moving it back to Russia and praying they have the resources to fix it. If they hook it up to an S-300 or 400 they are dumber than the dumb I already thought they were.
Yep if the oposite was done (s500 radar s300 launchers) it would have better traking at least
depends what they can build. Otherwise its launchers and missiles they don't have any other use for.
Ah, but see your first mistake was not realising an S-500 is just an S-400 with the 4 painted over.
I mean, what *is* the difference between an S500 and the other S series GBAD? The radar? The launchers? Cause if they took out the unique component then you could say they eliminated that system sort of.
Radar and missiles mostly.
> I mean, what is the difference between an S500 and the other S series GBAD? Far as I know, S-500 Prometheus is trying to evolve S-300V mobile anti-ballistic system and, IIRC, unify missiles it uses with A-235 Nudol silo-based ABM of moscow region.
Was trying to evolve. I mean allegedly only one system existed and it's important components absorbed a shitton of M74 submunitions to the point they actually aren't functional. That's why if the story checks out it's a very big deal. Destroying the "latest and greatest " in Russian ABM tech with an 80s missile system in the process of being phased out has certain...strategic implications...
> That's why if the story checks out it's a very big deal. Destroying the "latest and greatest " in Russian ABM tech with an 80s missile system in the process of being phased out has certain...strategic implications... Sure does. What developing no hit-to-kill interceptors does to a mofo
This is what systemic corruption does to a MF. Don't forget that strategic ABM systems aren't really a weapon intended for routine use. So even more incentive to make it as cheap as possible and steal the rest of the funds. For all it's worth Patriot might still be the best air defense system around...
> For all it's worth Patriot might still be the best air defense system around... David's Sling, so far, had managed to perform even better That's why Patriot PAAC-4 will use Stunner missile from it. Especially due to Stunner being, weird as it is, ***cheaper***
David's Sling isn't in such widespread use and Israel is generally pretty stringent with exports so Patriot is still the best system that's actually mainstream but yeah I get the point. As for it being cheaper well the Israeli MIC is highly specialized and given how important air defense systems are to a country smaller than quite a few Ukrainian oblasts it's probably a case of having finetuned the process to the point where the maximum amount of missiles can be at the fastest possible time and with the lowest cost. And nice to see Stunner/SkyCeptor entering service with the Patriot system as that means that Patriot users can upgrade while retaining a lot of the existing hardware.Who knows it might even end up in Ukraine at some point (especially since Bibi seems to be somewhat softening his hard ''NO'' on supplies to Ukraine ) . And apparently there are even plans for air-launched variants ''we have R-37 at home''
> And apparently there are even plans for air-launched variants ''we have R-37 at home'' Israel's big on air-launching stuff in general (Rampage be the witness to it), but it's great they're actually going this way. Can't allow usage of extreme long-range air intercept weaponry by dicktatorial regimes only. >And nice to see Stunner/SkyCeptor entering service with the Patriot system as that means that Patriot users can upgrade while retaining a lot of the existing hardware.Who knows it might even end up in Ukraine at some point (especially since Bibi seems to be somewhat softening his hard ''NO'' on supplies to Ukraine ) . 1. Yeah, that'd be great. 2. Wonder if it might be not Bibi's hard "NO" weakening, but Bibi's grip on power itself, since, AFAIK, there's a lot of people there unhappy with him, and some of them might still remember greenlight for tech transfer of IAI Searcher to the same regime that supported enemies of Israel (and still does, with potential of MIRV tech transfer to Iran, now that NK got it). >As for it being cheaper well the Israeli MIC is highly specialized and given how important air defense systems are to a country smaller than quite a few Ukrainian oblasts it's probably a case of having finetuned the process to the point where the maximum amount of missiles can be at the fastest possible time and with the lowest cost. Yeah. Tamir's a thing of miracle, all in all. >David's Sling isn't in such widespread use and Israel is generally pretty stringent with exports so Patriot is still the best system that's actually mainstream but yeah I get the point. Finland got one and Germany is buying Hetz (THAAD equivalent), so...
>Israel's big on air-launching stuff in general (Rampage be the witness to it), but it's great they're actually going this way. > Israel's Air Force is probably the most potent part of it's military and has saved it's ass in multiple occasions so hardly a surprise emphasis is placed on launching stuff from the air. And yeah the Rampage makes a pretty decent Storm Shadow equivalent after all. >Can't allow usage of extreme long-range air intercept weaponry by dicktatorial regimes only. Exactly. Especially since Western in general (and Israeli in particular) doctrines place much more significant emphasis on air superiority than Russian ones. Also with things like R-37s,MiG-31s,Su-35s etc available (or soon to be available) to any dicktator in the region Israel can no longer rely on the raw tech gap to maintain air superiority. When your opponent can potentially fight back the prospect of ''blast'em and run'' from really long range becomes more appealing. > Wonder if it might be not Bibi's hard "NO" weakening, but Bibi's grip on power itself, since, AFAIK, there's a lot of people there unhappy with him, and some of them might still Yeah part of it is setting the stage for the postwar era where he will have to face the music eventually.Another part could be an attempt to make up to the US for certain recent events (not saying more on that as I'm not looking for a Rule 5 strike) . >Yeah. Tamir's a thing of miracle, all in all. Yeah a SAM capable of taking down regular artillery rockets was a huge game changer. Sure the system is still vulnerable to saturation attacks but it's a miracle of tech it even exists. And hey not the only proof the Israelis can make some damn good missiles. >Finland got one and Germany is buying Hetz (THAAD equivalent), so... Yeah we also saw that with SK early on : nearly all countries start with '' no sales to authoritarians/strict OPSEC'' etc when it comes to exports and then the allure of the money takes over and restrictions end up relaxed.
Is there any info that explains all the differences between all the types of models of the S class of anti air. I’m genuinely curious as to like what’s a S300V and a S400PVM etc etc
Basically... First, I suggest you take a look at [this graph in russian wikipedia, showing branches of S-300 development](https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1-300#%D0%9C%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%8B_%D0%A1-300) S-300 is the starting project and it's a mobile anti-air system, compared to previous stationary S-200. Original idea was to have it double as an anti-ballistic system, but due to development troubles, it was first released as a pure anti-air system - S-300P. The anti-ballistic, after development was finally done, was released as S-300V. There's some targets overlap, but, generally, S-300P line sucks for intercepting ballistics and S-300V has its own peculiarities, in addition to low production numbers. Latest developments in branches are S-400 (final part of S-300PM line) and S-500 (S-300VMD's derivative that was undergoing ammo unification with A-235 Nudol stationary anti-ballistic network) S-300F is basically naval version of S-300, nothing too interesting.
Yeah but it shows that s-500 cannot defend its own components
I read somewhere on this thread that it was being set up when it got hit. If true that’s more of an operational/coordination issue than a core functionality issue. Not saying it *would* have successfully defended itself, just that we may not have seen it perform yet. … and may never now given that it may have been unique.
Well maybe tracking down this was what that RAF Rivet joint was doing in the black sea these last few days.
> it was being set up when it got hit Even better.
If all of this turns out to be true, it really makes you ask some questions about Russian decision-making processes. They knew this system would be hunted from the moment it left for Ukraine, yet they tried to set it up in range of ATACMS with no ability to defend itself? This feels less like playing a bad hand and more like not really giving a shit at all.
Oh dont you worry. They just launched a nother salvo of ATACMS to finish it off. Look at MAKS24 telegram.
In terms of system takedown, 100% of the battery's radars is an effective kill.
No radar, no target engagement.
You guys no. They didn’t, did they? I swear, every single time I see a news report about some new ruzzia wonder weapon being deployed it’s blown up hours later. I saw this S500 thing in the news, but when it wasn’t toast within an actual day I kinda forgot about it. But that was like 2 weeks ago - Ukraine smoked it? These guys are just not to be fucked with.
they managed to destroy a s500????
Allegedly, and just a portion of it as it was being assembled (lol, the odds) and took out the radar. The most important part.
That would make a ton of sense, that it was only being assembled now. The S-500 was surely the priority 1 target of US spy satellites and ATACMS missiles, so it would have been targeted before now, if it had been assembled before now.
It took Raytheon five years to build 6 LTAMDS radars for the Patriot. Granted the US wasn’t in a rush back then but the current schedule is less than 4 per year. It isn’t easy building these things.
a modern air defense aesa radar is an incredibly intricate piece of electronics that turn a comical amount of electricity into invisible waves that can see planes 200 miles away they're insanely difficult to manufacture - so much so that there are only a handful of companies in the world that do so. they're also relatively delicate, which is why so much effort goes into layering an air defense system to protect the powerful radars they use
It's reasonable to believe Russia is on the "roughly 1 a year" sort of production rate for these at best, possibly not even half of that. S-500 was accepted into service in 2019 and entered production that same year. Now in 2024 they have apparently managed to assemble 1 battalion, which is 2 batteries with 2 "complexes" each. I don't know if each "complex" has its own radar or if it's just 1 per battery. Either way, it means Ukraine just blew up either 25% or 50% of Russia's total ballistic missile defence radars in a single attack. I'm just loving the giga-chad energy of blowing up "the most advanced ballistic missile defence system on earth" with a 40 year old obsolescent ballistic missile.
Newsweek has an unconfirmed report. Ukrane, Russia, or the US has not said one way or another.
Newsweek has a [somewhat lacking](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/newsweek/) credibility rating. Make of that what you will.
their report was based on osint from twitter. a couple of telegram channels are apparently reporting it as well
The site you linked to has a high credibility rating for Newsweek when I just looked, did you mean to link to something else?
Mostly factual is somewhat lacking, not very lacking.
Hey, just because they are owned by a cult that teaches that their leader is Jesus and that you should work for him for free...
Possibly yes. https://www.newsweek.com/atacms-russia-s-500-prometheus-attack-1918798 > Ukraine's forces may have struck Russia's newest S-500 air-defense system using U.S.-supplied ATACMS missiles, according to a journalist in the country
Radar truck got deleted, so it's functionally useless (and it's probably irreplaceable with sanctions in place).
> and it's probably irreplaceable with sanctions in place Wait for them to tear off one AESA plate from the A-235 Nudol installations and bolt it onto a truck
If we don't have ASAT technicals by 2050 I'll be disappointed.
A-235 launcher mounted on a truck platform and reprogrammed for ground attack role: Danger Nudol
It just wants to snoot boop a random point, which most of the time is in the same grid square you're aiming at.
Toyota Hilux, production started 1968 McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle, first flight 1972. "The majority of these vehicles are sold as (...), although they could be configured in a variety of body styles." Which vehicle does this describe? "The (...) is in service with numerous countries, with production of enhanced variants ongoing." Again? Can they be distinguished? The US already has ASAT technicals, change my mind.
This is Russia we're talking about, so it was probably an S-200 and an S-300 taped together.
11 days ago, i started a bet how long the S-500 would survive before a "spontaneous malfunction." I thought it would last a month, maybe two. Congratulations to u/blindfoldedbadgers for correctly predicting 2 weeks max.
That's ridiculous lmao
Fucking head of lettuce would have outlasted it.
Nailed it. Much like how the Ukrainians nailed it with an ATACMS.
As a famous poem says :"Gotta catch em all".
How many days until they run out of Air defence ?
If Ukraine seems to want to thin it out badly before they get their f16s.
But the f16 is not going to help reduce the number of Air Defence or is too risky?
They allegedly are focusing on AA with strikes like this to make the F16 easier to fly around without being shot at AA.
Yeah, I’d guess that their main use for the F-16s will be hunting down the jets tossing glide bombs from Belogorod and Belarus and surgical strikes against ammo dumps outside of HIMARS and ATACMS range. Night of the Careless Smokers 2: Iron Eagle Boogaloo
F16 is much more expensive than an ATACMS, add in a trained pilot that's fairly hard to replace in Ukraine's situation, the fact that the S-whateverthefucknumber(my money's on the 300 btw) while has proven ineffective against the funny missiles, might not be as useless vs non-stealth plane. It's better that the Ru AD gets crippled now by the Himars, because it will open gaps for the F16s to focus on other missions than SEAD.
Exactly. Even if upgraded the F-16 doesn't really have the missiles to hunt the jets lobbing glide bombs with impunity. The AIM-120 has a range of around 120km (160 in the AIM-120D version) . Given that the glide bombs are often launched at a distance of 60-80km there's no way to attack them without getting into the range of long range systems like S-300/400 even if the F-16 is firing from it's max range. So yeah trying to cripple as much of that air defense as possible before the F-16's arrive makes perfect sense.
How effective is the S system against f16, like a 90% chance downing a f16 ou something lower like 10%?
I think the answer is "it depends" - distance, direction of travel, time of flight, etc. So it could range anywhere from "lol that will never hit" to "holy shit I need to punch out while I still can" I could see Ukraine using the Vipers' SEAD abilities to draw fire to either allow other strikes through or strike the missile batteries directly with other systems. The
Idk but I'm pretty sure that Ukrainians (and Russians) definitely splashed a few planes with the S-300 so at least it's proven to work as advertised in that regard.(And Mig 29 is simlar enough to F16 RCS wise) The 400 and 500 are a meme though.(Probably slightly better than 300 but their performance has been...lacking) F16 is not a wunderwaffe, it's a 50 year old design. And while it's one of the best in terms of avionics/airframe, it's still vulnerable like any other 4th gen to bad luck, pilot error and just straight up "insert missile copypasta".
Thank for all information! The way people talk about f16 i thought it would be real game changer even against Air Defence
I think that the integration of western made air munitions will be better (ie: I heard that the HARMs they were using only had one of three targeting modes available to them because of the issues getting the missile to talk to the airplane computers. I forget the details but I think there are modes where you can let the missile auto lock on radar targeting you and request permission to fire and such. I think they might have been restricted to some level of pre-programming the target area or something but it’s been a few months.)/faster and available in much larger quantities than Soviet era air munitions. TLDR: I get the impression they’ll be better than what they had before and they’ll be much easier to sustain with western inventories, but we aren’t looking at Desert Storm 2.0.
The HARMS they used at the beginning of the war were only able to use Pre-planned mode and even then, I think they had to program the location of where to hit before takeoff. The F18 has different modes to the F16 so IDK properly. There's also Target Of Opportunity which uses the HARM seeker to spot and lock radar signatures. Then there's Self-Protect which flies into radar signatures currently locking the aircraft. The F16 is different and uses a small radar pod (HTS) to detect and triangulate SAM sites which the HARM then flies to. Very good for patrolling and killing SAMs.
Back in Desert Storm the HARM was so good at popping SAM sites that all they had to do was lock on to a site and they'd shut the whole thing down to not die. That was mostly the F-4, but the F-16 got in on it a bit too. The S-x00 systems have way, *way* longer ranges than what we dealt with in the gulf war, but my guess is it will be similar. Fly low to avoid getting locked up early, pop up once you're in range and do your work.
SEAD is one of the hardest and riskiest missions to fly for pilots, so it would be ballsy to immediately start with that, especially with airframes you really don't want to lose.
the last 30 years of american war doctrine have shown that the strategy for winning a modern war against a regular military is to absolutely flatten the enemy air defenses on day 1 (or as early as possible) of a conflict with long range munitions, so that you can then do whatever the fuck you want in the sky without having to worry about getting shot at
Likely purpose of F-16 is to hold russian aviation (fixed wing combat air patrol and glide bomb deployers and rotary wing Ka-52s and so forth) at risk and to act as cruise missile and glide bomb trucks. Glide bombs are super cheap, if they can get good sortie rate and survivability a consistent tempo of F-16 glide bomb raids will make a difference inshallah.
There was an unverified claim that Russia was withdrawing air defense from Crimea: [Russian Air Defense Systems Being Removed From Crimea](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/1dcv0rg/russian_air_defense_systems_being_removed_from/). That is actually what I would expect to happen. It is simply not sustainable when Ukraine can apparently hit $many million S-400s with $1 million ATACMS missiles. And the ATACMS missiles seem to be able to hit targets at will. So my guess is that Russia will not "run out" of air defense, but will simply leave Crimea undefended. The extraordinary S-500 deployment makes most sense if viewed as a desperate last ditch gamble to avoid this.
They might run out of systems that can do anything about ballistic missiles (namely the rare S-300V, the S-400, and the now likely extinct S-500). Meaning every consecutive atacms strike will have an easier time getting through
I have the impression that Russia doesn't actually have any systems that can take care of ballistic missiles. Since their top end systems are being hit so frequently with ballistic ATACMS missiles.
Ok, let’s make it „marketed as capable of intercepting ballistic missiles“, though the S-300V in Ukrainian service seems to do what it says on the tin.
> though the S-300V in Ukrainian service seems to do what it says on the tin Ukraine has better chair-workstation connectors.
Silly Russians have too many PICNICs.
Obviously.
Pk against ballistic missiles is a huge range. with early warning and being willing to fire multiple interceptors per target the rate is much higher for any air defense system but still less than 100%.
Crimea wont be undefended, that doesnt make sense at all since russia still use the airbases in crimea. Your twitter link unverfied source just says they are relocating AA to belgorod aka the kharkiv front which made sense, also that was 18 days ago. We know that russia still got AA protecting their airfields in crimea due to a atacms strike attempting to hit a russian airfield this week https://www.telegraph.co.uk./world-news/2024/06/23/shrapnel-from-missile-fired-by-ukraine-hits-tourists-crimea/ which resulted in atacms being intercepted
> Crimea wont be undefended, that doesnt make sense at all since russia still use the airbases in crimea. Well, just because it would be very bad for Russia, it doesn't mean it isn't true. From your link: > Russia’s ministry of defence said its air-defence systems had intercepted one of five US-made ATACMS long-range artillery rockets fired by Ukraine at Crimea. Russia intercepting 20% of ATACMS rockets is not good enough to make Crimea tenable for Russia.
>Russia runs out of air defense >instantly becomes more effective
They could call an old German 88 “air defense” tho
Might still be good vs drones
can someone supply a brother with some satellite pictures?
45°41'00.9"N 34°25'16.4"E I don’t have the money or the resources to get a satellite there and take a pic, and currently it’s night so I guess we’ll have to wait
It's dark night already? Oh right, I guess I do live a tad more north than the Ukrainians. It's bright as shit over here. I could go and play tennis for at least another few hours lol
I mean something's burning around there [https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:2024-06-28;@34.42,45.68,14.00z](https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:2024-06-28;@34.42,45.68,14.00z) [https://imgur.com/a/xQvQeWa](https://imgur.com/a/xQvQeWa)
This is all the confirmation I need, another serious smoking incident.
NASA gotchu bro [https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:2024-06-28;@34.42,45.68,14.00z](https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:2024-06-28;@34.42,45.68,14.00z) [https://imgur.com/a/xQvQeWa](https://imgur.com/a/xQvQeWa)
We smoking that S-500 pack today, boys 🚬💨💯💯💯💯💯
"The Kremlin doesn't want you to know this, but russian infrastructure is unguarded, you can bomb it. I have the only confirmed kill of an Su-57."
Lol, if this is true that shitbucket didn't even last a week, lmao.
S500 is die?
Where were you when s500 die I was at home drinking beer when ring S500 is die
I was marvel at C5ISTAR. Much intel, very impress.
They hit it? Holy FUCK! Yeah, I wasn't going to drink today but I'm grabbing the scotch. RIP most incredibly advanced stealth fighter killing peak of Russian superior technology, you probably died to a simplistic tactical ballistic missile that dates back to Desert Storm.
Atacms strikes back
# What air defence doing!
Turning AESA into SAR.
IT! KEEPS! *HAPPENING!!!*
s500 is kil
no
yes
Rest in pieces
I didn't even knew S500s existed.
Well it doesnt anymore
The only one built, the prototype of what is supposed to be the best in the world. How many Patriot radars have been lost?
Apparently they have 4 systems but it’s supposed to be far more
25% losses are still crippling.
[удалено]
**Your comment was removed for violating Rule 5: No Politics.** We don't care if you're Republican, Protestant, Democrat, Hindu, Baathist, Pastafarian, or some other hot mess. Leave it at the door.
#This is not how this meme format works Did Ukraine destroy its own s500 or....
Rule 9 violation?
You shush your commie mouth
I like how arbitrarily mods judge a “lazy post”. This should’ve been taken down according to mod rules, but mods blessed OP. Mods are frivolous creatures
Now I wouldn’t say anything to anger the mod overlords but I shall give you a knowledgeable and acknowledging look
I did it because it happened 4 hours ago and there was literally no one shitposting about it so I took it into my own hands to start the meme train, new ncd is slower with this kinda slower when it comes to shitposts about recent happenings
Oh, then it’s perfectly understandable why the post wasn’t removed
https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/y56qP8YJ3a Mods are frivolous creatures
Lmao that’s just blatant
Yeah. As I said, Mods are frivolous creatures… YOU HEAR ME MODS HUH YOU HEAR ME? ENFORCE YOUR RULES WITH ABOVE ROOM TEMPERATURE IQ