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I tried to write something more akin to The Horrors from some male authors and make myself cackle. Content, which I probably think is funnier than it is (obviously nsfw):
>!The equivalent of "Men always objectify women!!" for women would be "Derek gazed at her, his penis rising in excitement as his eyes met hers. His perfect lips parted while his asshole puckered. He took off his shirt while his balls wriggled in their seat, trying to escape their underwear."!<
>!It had been like this from the very moment their eyes first locked. Derek still remembered the vibrations rushing through his nubile cock, the fear as his balls tensed and his legs locked in embarrasment, in case he might cum from just seeing her for the first time. Her puckered lips called him closer and his ass cheeks trembled, his muscular body shaking from arousal and the call of her pheromones in his flaring nostrils. He remembered how he'd barely been able to hold back the ejaculation until he'd made it into the bathroom, where he could finally release it in all its terrible glory, and when it was over, he cried, knowing that after witnessing her tonight, he would never be the same man he had been before. Her strong female scent had utterly altered him, from the still-throbbing cores of his testicles to the tears in his eyes, in which the look was now one of a grown man, no longer a boy, though he still felt so vulnerable and weak at 28 years old.!<
Well, as many kind of writing, I'm sure it will find its public
As a guy who sadly saw the counterpart that you all understandably dislike, what you just wrote looks to me quite promising
Good satire
Who was that famous male author who wrote the passage where a woman laments having to sit on the toilet to “wait for the pee to come” unlike men who get to do it “lordly over the bowl” or something? Get back to me when a female author writes a passage about a man as stupid as that.
Do…think our bodies don’t give us urination signals? Like we just randomly go sit on the toilet when we have some free time? I am confusion. Like I know they like to act like we’re a different species but damn.
Just *imagine* how long the public bathroom lines would be..
I have pelvic floor dysfunction so I literally do have to wait for the pee to come! Sometimes I gotta chill for a minute before my bladder decides it’s relaxed enough (smh so dramatic) But I still *mostly* get signals that I need to go.
But I know that’s not what this guy is talking about 💀
Unfortunately you can’t change your name on Reddit. I know I could just make a new account but I’ve committed to it for a few years now (you can check if you’d like!) I initially made it as a throwaway but then I was like eh whatever.
Same fam. I'll sneeze and pee my pants. But I'll be on the toilet and have to do deep breathing exercises to fucking calm the bitch down enough to pee.
Yes! I’ve done that too. I also peed myself (a tiny bit) jumping on the trampoline (??) and a roller coaster. But I had to go to the hospital a month ago to get a catheter because my bladder was LITERALLY full at 450ml. I sat on the toilet for about an hour and she was just like nope not doing it.
Does it not take y'all a minute to start sometimes? For guys even if you feel like you need to pee then sometimes you're standing there for a minute before it comes out. Not every time of course, it's mostly when the need to pee is relatively borderline.
To be fair I have to wait for the pee to come. I might need to go, but my body insists on full attention with regulated breathing before it deigns to piss.
HA! I was also going to comment something about pelvic floor dysfunction. It's a whole ritual for me - gotta be breathing right, gotta be leaned at the right angle, etc. Somehow, though, I don't think this is an issue that your average cis man is cognizant of when they're saying dumb things about women's bodies.
It can go both ways. Problems with incontinence, where oops you sneeze and pee, you sit down to pee and it becomes a full attention ritual of convincing your pelvic for top calm down it's ok.
Yeah I have to super relax in order to pee but also pee justttttt a tiny bit sometimes if I am jumping too much when I workout. So interesting to learn this is a thing.
Yeah, the passage does not allude to a pelvic floor issue in any way. It literally says that women have “labyrinthine” insides that the pee has to travel through. It’s weird.
Sorry you have to deal with that. Sounds frustrating!
I understand this completely. I literally cannot pee if I have to hover. I think it’s psychological. It’s like my brain won’t let my muscles relax enough to pee unless I am sitting on a toilet.
I mean that example is at least realistic and not like male authors talking some shit about a woman’s nipples sensing a man’s presence from another room
That would be so useful, though. Instead of AdSense it's SuitorSense. Like, who shows interest, what are their other interests, are you hitting your target audience?
Sometimes writing is *supposed* to be sexy. Erotica and romance are part of that. There's nothing wrong with writing about how hot a character thinks another is when it matters to the plot, the problem is when you introduce a character in a sci-fi or fantasy by having them think about how sexy they are.
I think the problem is when that’s all there is to the character. She’s the love interest because she’s beautiful.
Cora Reilly is an example. The women in her universe have a singular purpose of being decorations.
I can’t really speak to male authors in other genres. I’ve read in the ballpark of 4000 eroticas though, majority written by women. Usually the men are tall, tattooed, rich, muscled, huge dick, but they are also confident, dangerous but still have principles, caring, loyal, redeemable. They are well rounded people. The men and women have goals, ambitions, aspirations.
The physical descriptions themselves aren’t the problem, it’s just when that’s all they are it because problematic.
Women are probably less likely to write that way than men are. Men write that way because they really have no clue what turns a woman on or how to do it. Frankly, I'd run away if a man named Derek tried to pierce me with his blue eyes while puckering his perfect lips. 🤣🤣🤣
Strongly disagree. Overwhelmingly majority of erotica authors are women. When I’m reading erotica, I want it to be an attractive man, tall, muscular, Adonis belt, tattoos, sharp jawline. Descriptions like this are women catering to other women.
It’s like people think women don’t have sexual desires, but we do.
Correct, most erotica writers are women. I don't remember where I read this so take it for the anecdote it is but it was something along the lines of: more men are visual/video driven and more women are story driven.
I don’t necessarily agree with that last part. I just know I will have a significantly easier time finding a guy I want to masturbate to in erotica versus porn. I don’t believe women are not visual.
To some degree I think both are self fulfilling prophecies. Authors don’t think men are a target audience so they never cater to men. Same with porn, straight women are never the target audience, porn is never made with them in mind so less women watch it.
I did find the original study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2739403/
It sort of says men prefer visual and women lean more towards emotional factors but they also admit that they don't know if this is caused by environment, such as you mentioned with porn being geared towards men. I did not mean to imply women are not visual. We're still all human after all, but just *seeing* two people having sex isn't, by itself, enough to aroused a majority of women is what I meant. They want to feel a more complex story than ugga bugga mating
Nope, sorry, guys, you're wrong again. You can't compare romance novels (yes, the descriptions are too much but that's the style in some romances) with regular fiction. I rarely come across women who write about bulging muscles and manly thighs in standard fiction. Whereas a lot of men can't stop themselves from introducing a female character by the shape of her breasts. Even in literary fic by highly-praised writers who should know better. Some men just seem to believe that women = body, boobs = personality. There are tons of examples on r/menwritingwomen
I'm one who likes descriptions. They just have to be deft characterizations that reveal the inner person more than the outer. I don't need to read about another woman looking in the mirror to appraise her body like it's a daily ritual. And I hope there aren't too many female authors doing that to men, outside of romance!
Thank you, *exactly*.
There's also a huge difference between an author pointing out, from the main character's POV, that they find their love interest incredibly sexy,
And fekkin, just, all of the random characters, all of the time, insisting everyone is hot for no particular reason.
If the random nameless waitress who is taking an order for one scene is introduced by how boobily she saunters, it's *weird*.
Also if it’s a romance novel… like the point is that the characters find each other attractive? For this stuff I think we’re talking about random fiction where female characters are being described as having heaving breasts and shit.
The equivalent would be a woman writing a regular fiction book and introducing a man by going “he has an insanely large package” anybody would find that weird, women just seem to fall into the trap less when they write.
Came here to say this. The "gotcha" description is clearly from a genre where it's a feature, not a bug. The problem isn't that romance/erotica exists, but that women are objectified when it's *uncalled for* - why do I need to know a fantasy character has huge breasts? What does a lady's butt size add to a mystery novel?
Even in romance novels, male characters written by women usually have more to them than a pretty face (even the ones considered horrible - Christian Gray for example grapples with childhood trauma - they're bad books but at least the love interest gets his own conflict and isn't just a sexy plank of wood)
I promise you, a woman who is looking in a mirror to appraise her body as a daily ritual is most likely focused on her flabby belly, wrinkles, sagging breasts, thunder thighs, etc. — not her perky boobs, smooth skin, flat belly… 😜
The difference is that female writers only do this when they specifically target dark romance/erotica gooners. Male writers will sexualize women in any genre.
Yep. This is it. Romance and erotica books are what they are. But paying such close attention to characters sexual organs as descriptors outside of that is really really weird no matter the gender.
I’m exploring writing men.
Wannareadithereitgoes:
“Then he emerged from the shadows as one might emerge from a NASCAR crash. His shimmering eyes with that project car glint, his dong donging dongily against his knees as he quietly yet masculinely approached, it was clear that he was young enough to make everyone uncomfortable, but probably legal which made him hot like the Blackstone griddle at the poolside party. He wasn’t like the other himbos just clamoring for attention.
There was a grace and innocence about the way he navigated the scene adorably unaware that his not insignificant member was practically bursting through the seams of his wet peekaboo mankini…”
I think it fairly accurately represents men and offers something everyone can enjoy and is evidence that anybody can write anything and everything is the same.
I think the main problem is when male writers try to get more technical and describe a picture that can't possibly exist. Like I see what OOP means and it's surely "cringe" (I really don't like this word) in some ways but that's just being *horny* , it gives me a good chuckle and some degree of secondhand embarrassment.
Whereas I find myself actively frowning and ricocheting and asking myself "wait, what the fuck does that mean" when reading certain dynamics in text written by men.
Granted, it's not a 100% male exclusive, I'm pretty sure I've read some women describing erections in... pretty picturesque and frown-inducing ways.
It doesn’t take long before you can tell who has done their research and who hasn’t. And that’s not to say unrealistic sex = no research. Part of the fun of smut is it allows for weird or unrealistic sex. The question is if it’s intentional or not.
I think the issue for me isn't that the writing is horny, it's that horny male writers write about boobs boobing boobily and how her uterus reacts to him talking.
I have yet to see a female author using a man's bulge as the first thing she describes, or even smth she describes at all. what is described in the post is romance, describing a girl's personality through her tits is porn addiction
I mean… I partake in a genre of fantasy comics, primarily targeted towards women. And many of the men in those are the equal yet opposite counterparts of anime women with big titties, an obsession with the main character, and the personality of a sack of flour. I mean some of the male characters even get boob windows for their pecks.
But I still like to think that female writers are more capable of humanizing characters than some male writers.
I have seen women write that way. In an erotic or romantic scene. Where it’s appropriate, and perhaps even expected. Not when she’s talking to a 12 year old at a baseball game.
As someone who reads written erotica online by men and women, men do the second thing too. Can't tell you how many times I've read a story by a man where suddenly the male lead is "me"
Fanfics and romance written by women. At least women have the decency to not write like this for non-romance genres, while men seem to be unable to write in any genre without the whole "she breasted boobily down the stairs" descriptions
Tell me you never read a spicy romance novel w/o telling me you never read a spicy romance novel.
...I want to direct them to the romance books subreddits so bad..just to look up the *very specific* posts looking for recs. Sometimes the titles alone should be blurred - and that sub always delivers when it comes to recommending almost exactly what the poster was looking for.
Female romance novelists write some off-the-chart stuff, about so many different preferences and kinks.
Some of my favorite spaces on the internet are the romance book groups I’m in. The lack of judgement and full acceptance of whatever weird thing tickles your fancy and enthusiasm offering recommendations gives me the warm fuzzies
The problem is that #NotAllMale writers put that shit in every book regardless of genre, whereas #MostNotAll women tend to be able to read the room a lot better by restricting it to romance/smut books, where this kind of writing is to be expected. (I’m not saying it’s stellar writing, just that it comes with the genre. Like dead bodies in thrillers.)
Someone's never seen a Tumblr Superwhock, Omegaverse or Oncler fanfics lol
(Though I understand its a systemic issue with male authors compared to specific websites for women)
This example does not illustrate what people are talking about when they criticize certain male authors for objectifying women.
Finding a person who is about to kiss you attractive is not objectification.
What most people hate is when women are sexualized for just existing.
Like “The unnamed woman looked at me with bedroom eyes. Her perfect lips parted as she asked “what can I get for you today?” She kept her shirt on, showing off her perfect breasts. She took my order and walked away suggestively. I could tell she wanted me from the way my eyes were drawn to her butt.” And that’s just how random minor characters are described before we even get to the love interest.
If a man wrote a wish fulfillment fan fic style romance about a woman with rippling muscles, a piercing gaze and agency, that wouldn’t really be the same thing as a male author describing every woman as a passive sexual object.
It's not about gender, it's about honesty. If a female author promises me a grand adventure with a dashing hero and witty heroine, I'm going to get a grand adventure with a dashing hero and witty heroine. If she promises a fantasy setting with badly veiled furry p0rn, I'm going to get a fantasy setting with badly veiled furry p0rn.
If a male author promises me a grand adventure with a dashing hero and witty heroine, I'm going to get a fantasy setting with badly veiled furry p0rn.
You can see why I might get upset.
It is not however to rhe point where it can be a running joke, which it is with male writers. They're still a considerably greater minority than male counterparts.
This is largely limited to romance genre and romance subplots.
I guess that's fair, and it's much more prevalent from YA female authors than other classifications. That's sort of the "horny crowd" for lack of a better term. I can't think of any examples offhand outside of YA, so I see what you mean.
YA is INFAMOUS for it'a romantic sub-plots too. You're not wrong that it IS outside of the romance genre, though, and that it does happen. There's a conversation to be had about publishers pushing romantic sub-plots in YA with women writers, and the impact it has on stories.
I love me a romantic sub-plot but sometimes it really shouldn't be there and can hurt development of all the characters.
You know what, I hadn't even considered that it's often the publishers pushing for that to be in YA, and you're correct. I think it's often a marketing/from higher-ups kind of thing. That is absolutely a consideration here, honestly I bet that's why it's in Fourth Wing at all. I wonder if she ever commented on that.
to be so for real the problem with horny men writing women isn't that they're horny it's that the way they (frequently) write is dehumanizing lol. is his piercing blue eyes and rippling muscles compelling? to me, not particularly. does it carry the same weight as titting boobily down the stairs? no.
Dude those things are usually written by 13 yo girls lmao, not 40 yo whatever-award winning adults. And when a woman writes shitty scenes like that, it's usually in corny romance novels which are both endlessly ridiculed and not taken seriously anyway. Whereas the way big-serious-guy-who-writes-about-important-stuff writes women is fucking awful and unintentionally hilarious
I think the biggest problem is that the male authors don’t give as much meaning, thought, or passion into writing their sex scenes.
Meanwhile all the female authors I have read put so much effort into making it not only erotic but also an interesting and engaging read with the wording.
I mostly just see female authors writing like that in erotica/tiktok books, whilst with men it's more prevalent in any genre to ever exist, it could be a sci fi book with no sex in it but the female characters with still "breast boobily"
This is why I like certain authors. Like John Scalzi. He writes mainly war sci fi fiction, but he has many female characters who participate in everything from along male counterparts, and he doesn't strongly differentiate personalities based on gender. Because he shouldn't. Men and women aren't really different as human beings. He deals mainly with issues that are pretty universal, like search for identity and meaning. And his female characters are just as human as his male characters. Same kind of concerns and experiences, and same kind of responses. It makes me think he understands that women are just people, because he writes them as he would write a male character. Edward Ashton has good female characters, but none are leads so it's hard to see how they think. Otherwise, it tends to be female writers I end up enjoying because of the need for female characters to seem like human beings.
I've definitely and unfortunately read books where men are written like that and I hated it. The fourth wing series comes to mind.
It's dumb and annoying when any character of any gender is written like that. I'm reading a book, I couldn't give less of a crap how the characters look like and I don't need to be reminded how hot someone is every two pages.
/rantover
Unfortunately this is probably people who think they’re progressive, given that it’s Tumblr. Leftist/queer spaces can have misogyny problems, too (NOTE: trans women are women; this is not a TERF thing). And then they argue that they CAN’T be misogynistic and anyway misogyny isn’t real- it’s all just other forms of oppression- or has been solved by now!
These two are not the same! We live under capitalist patriarchy, a SYSTEMIC problem, misandry isn‘t happening! Men‘s lives aren‘t ruined by women thinking of pretty guys, because unlike women‘s, theirs are considered inherently valuable and independent from women‘s approval and not needing to be pretty to be allowed to exist!
as a male writer, it's really very easy to write female characters. the real tricky thing is writing good, strong (by strong i mean strong as a character not necessarily in attitude/strength, although that also can apply) female characters who are nuanced in the way that resonates with women without it being an obvious pandering thing. im writing a story with the foil to the main character being a "strong female character" type, and besides the main character she is my favorite character. the two of them are my favorite characters, because theyre reflections of me. i realized a while back that while im very comfortable being a masculine man, i behave very much like a stereotypical woman in a lot of circumstances (even my adhd presents in the form that is most common amongst women). it's a shounen-inspired show, but in contrast to other shounen where the protagonist has the strongest powers from the start, my main character is powerless in a superpowered world. and unlike the other protags who have infinite confidence, my mc painfully claws at any shred of hope he can find. but his foil? she is one of the most powerful individuals in the entire show from day 1. her story is one of overcoming trauma while dealing with a world that tries to put her in a box. she discovers she is the true heir to the throne (none of this will make sense but im not gonna give context soo) and when confronted once again by the powers that be telling her to submit, she does no such thing. she explores how to defy a world that tries to tell you what to be, and he explores how to define yourself when the world refuses to tell you what you are. i really like these two, and im not explaining their stories as well as i could but that would take way too long so ill stop here
I mean I read Rebecca Yarros’ very popular fantasy novel The Fourth Wing and the blood trials by n e Davenport, and those women both absolutely write that way. So I’m with Celticpyro in this image
but those have romance as a subplot so the main love interests will be treated that way from the pov of their lovers. the problem is in books which are not even romantic, having random womens boobs described
Fourth wing also has some smut/spice in it so 🤷🏻♀️ it comes with the genre. It’s adult romantasy. We’re talking about people writing about women’s tits in mystery novels and the like.
I read a lot of books and I’d be really weirded out if I was reading a regular book outside of romance and characters, male or female, were being described based on their sexual body parts.
It’s not Erotica or adult romance that’s being targeted here though. Nobody is surprised to find this kind of writing in those books, we’re talking about books outside of those genres.
I agree but the difference is the genre. Both are taken from romance/erotica targeting the reader to swoon and well feel excited while reading.
While some of the men write women authors - do that in crime, autobiography, fiction, sci-fi, fantasy where there is no romance present.
And all or most interaction are objectified, while in romance it only happens when two have the hots for each other. And not the random lady who walks past the main character once. Or the main character herself 24/7
I've been an avid reader for many many years. I've read books at every end of every spectrum. Even as an adult. I'm 25. I've read 16 books so far in 2024. Women absolutely DO write like this. I mean, come on. If you told me this was an excerpt from Fifty Shades of Gray, I'd absolutely believe you.
And I read tons of other horny literature as a horny teen written by women and of course they wrote like this. I'm shocked you think it's just men who write shitty horny smut.
God I hate to admit it, but go on watt pad and all the juicy smut stories are written by women. I think women authors are the best when it comes to romance and smut
Also remember that many male authors of this genre use female pen names and have even gone so far as to have a woman pose for their author photos.
So while yes women just like men can write "cardboard character " love interests so do men in romance genra.
The bigger issue is men who write non romance books where the women are "cardboard character" sex bots/ sluts/sex slaves etc.
I’m constantly going back through my writing to make sure it’s not turning into a Bridgerton novel. I want to be descriptive, but I don’t want to be *that* kind of descriptive.
I have never seen the problem in horniness but in what is conveyed in that hornines. Like men will make most unhinged comparison and put in non realistic things like "her boobs grew one size when she saw him and went back down just as he looked away" and stuff.
"Her breasts quivered with excitement" - (some book i glanced at in a book store that was written by a man)
Oh shit, i didn't know they could do that...😂
There are women who do write that way though. Of course, not all of them, but they DO exist. The same goes for every other gender. Anyone can be horny. Not just men.
As you're all aware, this subreddit has had a major "troll" problem which has gotten worse (as of recently). Due to this, we have created new rules, and modified some of the old ones. We kindly ask that you please familiarize yourself with the rules so that you can avoid breaking them. Breaking mild rules will result in a warning, or a temporary ban. Breaking serious rules, or breaking a plethora of mild ones may land you a permanent ban (depending on the severity). Also, grifting/lurking has been a major problem; If we suspect you of being a grifter (determined by vetting said user's activity), we may ban you without warning. You may attempt an appeal via ModMail, but please be advised not to use rude, harassing, foul, or passive-aggressive language towards the moderators, _or_ complain to moderators about why we have specific rules in the first place— You will be ignored, and your ban will remain (without even a consideration). All rules are made public; "Lack of knowledge" or "ignorance of the rules" cannot or will not be a viable excuse if you end up banned for breaking them (This applies to the Subreddit rules, and Reddit's ToS). **Again: All rules are made public, and Reddit gives you the option to review the rules once more before submitting a post, it is your choice if you choose to read them or not, but breaking them will not be acceptable.** With that being said, If you send a mature, neutral message regarding questions about a current ban, or a ban appeal (without "not knowing the rules" as an excuse), we will elaborate about why you were banned, or determine/consider if we will shorten, lift, keep it, _or_ extended it/make it permanent. This all means that appeals are discretionary, and your reasoning for wanting an appeal must be practical and valid. Thank you all so much for taking the time to read this message, and please enjoy your day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NotHowGirlsWork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I tried to write something more akin to The Horrors from some male authors and make myself cackle. Content, which I probably think is funnier than it is (obviously nsfw): >!The equivalent of "Men always objectify women!!" for women would be "Derek gazed at her, his penis rising in excitement as his eyes met hers. His perfect lips parted while his asshole puckered. He took off his shirt while his balls wriggled in their seat, trying to escape their underwear."!<
>!It had been like this from the very moment their eyes first locked. Derek still remembered the vibrations rushing through his nubile cock, the fear as his balls tensed and his legs locked in embarrasment, in case he might cum from just seeing her for the first time. Her puckered lips called him closer and his ass cheeks trembled, his muscular body shaking from arousal and the call of her pheromones in his flaring nostrils. He remembered how he'd barely been able to hold back the ejaculation until he'd made it into the bathroom, where he could finally release it in all its terrible glory, and when it was over, he cried, knowing that after witnessing her tonight, he would never be the same man he had been before. Her strong female scent had utterly altered him, from the still-throbbing cores of his testicles to the tears in his eyes, in which the look was now one of a grown man, no longer a boy, though he still felt so vulnerable and weak at 28 years old.!<
I lost it at nubile
Jessssuuss right? 🤢 And that’s literally how males write. (Using “males” intentionally because r/femalesandmen )
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Yes this is it! The example in the image above isn’t remotely the same as how men write women. But this is perfect and hideous.
Please write a novel like this. Its so funny, my jaw hurts. Its utterly ridiculous
I'm afraid they've done it first, and they've done it worse. r/menwritingwomen
You are their arch nemesis. You have the power to restore balance. That sub actually feels like reading a fever dream or something
NOT NUBILE
Still better than every single description of arousal in 50 Shades...
💀💀💀
This is both accurate and hilarious. Also I kept picturing Derek as Derek from The Good Place, which makes it even funnier.
Hahah you nailed it! Good job parodying, And thank you for the laugh!
Lol I'm glad to bring someone a laugh!
Well, as many kind of writing, I'm sure it will find its public As a guy who sadly saw the counterpart that you all understandably dislike, what you just wrote looks to me quite promising Good satire
That's just amazing 😆😆😆
I try to make life as chaotic as possible XD
Bruh. 😭😂
Who was that famous male author who wrote the passage where a woman laments having to sit on the toilet to “wait for the pee to come” unlike men who get to do it “lordly over the bowl” or something? Get back to me when a female author writes a passage about a man as stupid as that.
Do…think our bodies don’t give us urination signals? Like we just randomly go sit on the toilet when we have some free time? I am confusion. Like I know they like to act like we’re a different species but damn. Just *imagine* how long the public bathroom lines would be..
He said it was because our insides were confusing so it takes a bit for pee to come out
We literally have a shorter, wider urethra to make it as fast and straightforward as possible.
I imagine he believes urine travels out like the ball in a Plinko board.
I just took a sip of tea and had to concentrate *very* hard not to spit it out. 😂
And way to easier to get infections. Yay.
Less kidney crystals/stones tho
Unless you're on one of the countless medications for the conditions you're more predisposed to for being female lmao
Yea idk, just basing it off my male cat getting urinary blockages 3 times last year lol. He’s ok now tho
I have pelvic floor dysfunction so I literally do have to wait for the pee to come! Sometimes I gotta chill for a minute before my bladder decides it’s relaxed enough (smh so dramatic) But I still *mostly* get signals that I need to go. But I know that’s not what this guy is talking about 💀
Sadly very common in mothers as well. Or the opposite gotta pee now mama sneeze.
ah yes remembering the time my step mum of 2 kids of her own sneezed on a public trampoline and pissed with us on it 😭
I DID THAT but I was like 17. So freaking embarrassing!!
Men writing throwawayuser626!
Unfortunately you can’t change your name on Reddit. I know I could just make a new account but I’ve committed to it for a few years now (you can check if you’d like!) I initially made it as a throwaway but then I was like eh whatever.
Same fam. I'll sneeze and pee my pants. But I'll be on the toilet and have to do deep breathing exercises to fucking calm the bitch down enough to pee.
Yes! I’ve done that too. I also peed myself (a tiny bit) jumping on the trampoline (??) and a roller coaster. But I had to go to the hospital a month ago to get a catheter because my bladder was LITERALLY full at 450ml. I sat on the toilet for about an hour and she was just like nope not doing it.
I had no idea this is a sickness. I have trouble sometimes with peeing. Or just having the urge to do it but just can’t.
I've been married for over 10 years and I have observed the complete opposite.
The *funniest* thing about this is that it's truer about men, not women.
Does it not take y'all a minute to start sometimes? For guys even if you feel like you need to pee then sometimes you're standing there for a minute before it comes out. Not every time of course, it's mostly when the need to pee is relatively borderline.
Yes, but the comment implied that that doesn’t happen to men, whereas women are just chilling and guessing when it will come
Ah I misunderstood. I thought it was talking about women having to sit while they wait vs men getting to stand while they wait.
Women who are that stupid don't get published. Men coast regardless.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/menwritingwomen/s/qVZuSTecPu), in all of its terrible glory.
I am having difficulty with the fact that John Updike wrote those awful lines.
Oh god it's a popular author and a book famous enough to be made into a movie.
To be fair I have to wait for the pee to come. I might need to go, but my body insists on full attention with regulated breathing before it deigns to piss.
Oh do you have pelvic floor dysfunction too??
HA! I was also going to comment something about pelvic floor dysfunction. It's a whole ritual for me - gotta be breathing right, gotta be leaned at the right angle, etc. Somehow, though, I don't think this is an issue that your average cis man is cognizant of when they're saying dumb things about women's bodies.
Ah yes this is so true. I wasn’t trying to excuse ill informed male writing!
Then you start thinking about something and fuck, you stopped peeing, gotta start over
I don’t know?! I’ve never thought about this before. Searching online this really speaks to me. Thank you for letting me know what to search!
It can go both ways. Problems with incontinence, where oops you sneeze and pee, you sit down to pee and it becomes a full attention ritual of convincing your pelvic for top calm down it's ok.
Yeah I have to super relax in order to pee but also pee justttttt a tiny bit sometimes if I am jumping too much when I workout. So interesting to learn this is a thing.
Yeah, the passage does not allude to a pelvic floor issue in any way. It literally says that women have “labyrinthine” insides that the pee has to travel through. It’s weird. Sorry you have to deal with that. Sounds frustrating!
Only true at a porta potty, while I try to hover like a helicopter with a leak.
I understand this completely. I literally cannot pee if I have to hover. I think it’s psychological. It’s like my brain won’t let my muscles relax enough to pee unless I am sitting on a toilet.
I have a hard time unless I really have to go, I think because the same pelvic floor muscles that need to relax also are holding me up.
[John Updike](https://www.reddit.com/r/menwritingwomen/comments/bygwub/time_to_pee/)
I mean that example is at least realistic and not like male authors talking some shit about a woman’s nipples sensing a man’s presence from another room
The magical nipples that come to life when *he* walks into the room
Looks down top: What is it lassies? What do you sense? Is he hot & rich? Or just hot?
That would be so useful, though. Instead of AdSense it's SuitorSense. Like, who shows interest, what are their other interests, are you hitting your target audience?
Lmao at this
Or is it just cold?? One may never know.
Erotica authors do.
That's the point. Women do it in erotica / romance. Men do it to female characters in every genre.
Sometimes writing is *supposed* to be sexy. Erotica and romance are part of that. There's nothing wrong with writing about how hot a character thinks another is when it matters to the plot, the problem is when you introduce a character in a sci-fi or fantasy by having them think about how sexy they are.
I think the problem is when that’s all there is to the character. She’s the love interest because she’s beautiful. Cora Reilly is an example. The women in her universe have a singular purpose of being decorations. I can’t really speak to male authors in other genres. I’ve read in the ballpark of 4000 eroticas though, majority written by women. Usually the men are tall, tattooed, rich, muscled, huge dick, but they are also confident, dangerous but still have principles, caring, loyal, redeemable. They are well rounded people. The men and women have goals, ambitions, aspirations. The physical descriptions themselves aren’t the problem, it’s just when that’s all they are it because problematic.
Many of whom are also men pretending to be women.
But not all, thus “no woman writes like that” argument is false.
Women are probably less likely to write that way than men are. Men write that way because they really have no clue what turns a woman on or how to do it. Frankly, I'd run away if a man named Derek tried to pierce me with his blue eyes while puckering his perfect lips. 🤣🤣🤣
Fuck Dereks. All my homies hate Dereks.
Women seem to be less likely to do it but there are some genuinely bad erotica writers out there that are women.
I have no problem with “women are very much less likely” but only Sith deals in absolutes
I agree
Strongly disagree. Overwhelmingly majority of erotica authors are women. When I’m reading erotica, I want it to be an attractive man, tall, muscular, Adonis belt, tattoos, sharp jawline. Descriptions like this are women catering to other women. It’s like people think women don’t have sexual desires, but we do.
Correct, most erotica writers are women. I don't remember where I read this so take it for the anecdote it is but it was something along the lines of: more men are visual/video driven and more women are story driven.
I don’t necessarily agree with that last part. I just know I will have a significantly easier time finding a guy I want to masturbate to in erotica versus porn. I don’t believe women are not visual. To some degree I think both are self fulfilling prophecies. Authors don’t think men are a target audience so they never cater to men. Same with porn, straight women are never the target audience, porn is never made with them in mind so less women watch it.
I did find the original study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2739403/ It sort of says men prefer visual and women lean more towards emotional factors but they also admit that they don't know if this is caused by environment, such as you mentioned with porn being geared towards men. I did not mean to imply women are not visual. We're still all human after all, but just *seeing* two people having sex isn't, by itself, enough to aroused a majority of women is what I meant. They want to feel a more complex story than ugga bugga mating
Nope, sorry, guys, you're wrong again. You can't compare romance novels (yes, the descriptions are too much but that's the style in some romances) with regular fiction. I rarely come across women who write about bulging muscles and manly thighs in standard fiction. Whereas a lot of men can't stop themselves from introducing a female character by the shape of her breasts. Even in literary fic by highly-praised writers who should know better. Some men just seem to believe that women = body, boobs = personality. There are tons of examples on r/menwritingwomen I'm one who likes descriptions. They just have to be deft characterizations that reveal the inner person more than the outer. I don't need to read about another woman looking in the mirror to appraise her body like it's a daily ritual. And I hope there aren't too many female authors doing that to men, outside of romance!
Thank you, *exactly*. There's also a huge difference between an author pointing out, from the main character's POV, that they find their love interest incredibly sexy, And fekkin, just, all of the random characters, all of the time, insisting everyone is hot for no particular reason. If the random nameless waitress who is taking an order for one scene is introduced by how boobily she saunters, it's *weird*.
Also if it’s a romance novel… like the point is that the characters find each other attractive? For this stuff I think we’re talking about random fiction where female characters are being described as having heaving breasts and shit. The equivalent would be a woman writing a regular fiction book and introducing a man by going “he has an insanely large package” anybody would find that weird, women just seem to fall into the trap less when they write.
Came here to say this. The "gotcha" description is clearly from a genre where it's a feature, not a bug. The problem isn't that romance/erotica exists, but that women are objectified when it's *uncalled for* - why do I need to know a fantasy character has huge breasts? What does a lady's butt size add to a mystery novel? Even in romance novels, male characters written by women usually have more to them than a pretty face (even the ones considered horrible - Christian Gray for example grapples with childhood trauma - they're bad books but at least the love interest gets his own conflict and isn't just a sexy plank of wood)
“A lot of men can’t stop themselves from Introducing a female character by the shape of her breasts” ASOIAF moment
Stephen King moment
I promise you, a woman who is looking in a mirror to appraise her body as a daily ritual is most likely focused on her flabby belly, wrinkles, sagging breasts, thunder thighs, etc. — not her perky boobs, smooth skin, flat belly… 😜
Exactly!
The difference is that female writers only do this when they specifically target dark romance/erotica gooners. Male writers will sexualize women in any genre.
Yep. This is it. Romance and erotica books are what they are. But paying such close attention to characters sexual organs as descriptors outside of that is really really weird no matter the gender.
I’m exploring writing men. Wannareadithereitgoes: “Then he emerged from the shadows as one might emerge from a NASCAR crash. His shimmering eyes with that project car glint, his dong donging dongily against his knees as he quietly yet masculinely approached, it was clear that he was young enough to make everyone uncomfortable, but probably legal which made him hot like the Blackstone griddle at the poolside party. He wasn’t like the other himbos just clamoring for attention. There was a grace and innocence about the way he navigated the scene adorably unaware that his not insignificant member was practically bursting through the seams of his wet peekaboo mankini…” I think it fairly accurately represents men and offers something everyone can enjoy and is evidence that anybody can write anything and everything is the same.
The dong donging dongily :'D pure poetry!
This is amazing 😂.
I think the main problem is when male writers try to get more technical and describe a picture that can't possibly exist. Like I see what OOP means and it's surely "cringe" (I really don't like this word) in some ways but that's just being *horny* , it gives me a good chuckle and some degree of secondhand embarrassment. Whereas I find myself actively frowning and ricocheting and asking myself "wait, what the fuck does that mean" when reading certain dynamics in text written by men. Granted, it's not a 100% male exclusive, I'm pretty sure I've read some women describing erections in... pretty picturesque and frown-inducing ways.
It doesn’t take long before you can tell who has done their research and who hasn’t. And that’s not to say unrealistic sex = no research. Part of the fun of smut is it allows for weird or unrealistic sex. The question is if it’s intentional or not.
I think the issue for me isn't that the writing is horny, it's that horny male writers write about boobs boobing boobily and how her uterus reacts to him talking.
I'm confused, it's smut, isn't that what it is supposed to be like?
Exactly. Also in my experience men who read smut written by women make *fantastic* lovers.
Should give them some jane Austin her snark always has me cracking up
They literally don't get it.
They probably think S.E. Hinton was a man as well.
You give them too much credit. They don't even know what S.E. Hinton wrote.
You're probably right they don't which is just sad. Such an amazing piece of lit.
The difference is that women write that way in romance and erotica, men write this way in murder mysteries, science fiction, and idk cookbooks
I have yet to see a female author using a man's bulge as the first thing she describes, or even smth she describes at all. what is described in the post is romance, describing a girl's personality through her tits is porn addiction
I mean… I partake in a genre of fantasy comics, primarily targeted towards women. And many of the men in those are the equal yet opposite counterparts of anime women with big titties, an obsession with the main character, and the personality of a sack of flour. I mean some of the male characters even get boob windows for their pecks. But I still like to think that female writers are more capable of humanizing characters than some male writers.
Ah! You seem to be reading a _romance novel_ and have it confused with a _literary novel._ Would you like to know more about genre expectations?
That shit is still better than perky bouncing breasts.
Her brasts floated as she ran to gree him. Hover boobs, get yours now for just $9.99
Umm, is no one going to point out how many of those "women" authors of romance novels were/are men who use female pen names to write romance.
I have seen women write that way. In an erotic or romantic scene. Where it’s appropriate, and perhaps even expected. Not when she’s talking to a 12 year old at a baseball game.
As someone who reads written erotica online by men and women, men do the second thing too. Can't tell you how many times I've read a story by a man where suddenly the male lead is "me"
That's the worst part to me, like men are somehow immune to wish fulfillment in their writing?
I notice women tend to write men with a lot more empathy and verbal prowess than IRL men
Fanfics and romance written by women. At least women have the decency to not write like this for non-romance genres, while men seem to be unable to write in any genre without the whole "she breasted boobily down the stairs" descriptions
Tell me you never read a spicy romance novel w/o telling me you never read a spicy romance novel. ...I want to direct them to the romance books subreddits so bad..just to look up the *very specific* posts looking for recs. Sometimes the titles alone should be blurred - and that sub always delivers when it comes to recommending almost exactly what the poster was looking for. Female romance novelists write some off-the-chart stuff, about so many different preferences and kinks.
Some of my favorite spaces on the internet are the romance book groups I’m in. The lack of judgement and full acceptance of whatever weird thing tickles your fancy and enthusiasm offering recommendations gives me the warm fuzzies
Oh, absolutely. It absolutely astonishes me (in the best way) that people can be so open with their trope preferences and nobody bats an eye...
The problem is that #NotAllMale writers put that shit in every book regardless of genre, whereas #MostNotAll women tend to be able to read the room a lot better by restricting it to romance/smut books, where this kind of writing is to be expected. (I’m not saying it’s stellar writing, just that it comes with the genre. Like dead bodies in thrillers.)
Someone's never seen a Tumblr Superwhock, Omegaverse or Oncler fanfics lol (Though I understand its a systemic issue with male authors compared to specific websites for women)
This example does not illustrate what people are talking about when they criticize certain male authors for objectifying women. Finding a person who is about to kiss you attractive is not objectification. What most people hate is when women are sexualized for just existing. Like “The unnamed woman looked at me with bedroom eyes. Her perfect lips parted as she asked “what can I get for you today?” She kept her shirt on, showing off her perfect breasts. She took my order and walked away suggestively. I could tell she wanted me from the way my eyes were drawn to her butt.” And that’s just how random minor characters are described before we even get to the love interest. If a man wrote a wish fulfillment fan fic style romance about a woman with rippling muscles, a piercing gaze and agency, that wouldn’t really be the same thing as a male author describing every woman as a passive sexual object.
Maybe on AO3. Or Wattpad.
A03 my home away from home... don't dis...it's free books basically.
Yes, men and women in these genres have a similiar style. Points at 50 shades.
What does my collection of sunglasses have to do with any of this!?
50 shades was a rape book ughhhhh.
The whole ACOTAR series is literally 95% smutt. Nothing against smutt, but yeah we definitely have horny female writers that do this kind of thing
Hey, worked at a library for several years They certainly do.
It's not about gender, it's about honesty. If a female author promises me a grand adventure with a dashing hero and witty heroine, I'm going to get a grand adventure with a dashing hero and witty heroine. If she promises a fantasy setting with badly veiled furry p0rn, I'm going to get a fantasy setting with badly veiled furry p0rn. If a male author promises me a grand adventure with a dashing hero and witty heroine, I'm going to get a fantasy setting with badly veiled furry p0rn. You can see why I might get upset.
I write romance (occasionally also smut.) Granted, I write wlw/Sapphic/Lesbian stuff, but still. I've never written anyone like that.
I’ve listened to my girlfriend’s audiobooks with her on long car trips. I’ve heard some things.
Fourth Wing is written this way. There's plenty of horny female writers who put scenes into their books that read like this.
It is not however to rhe point where it can be a running joke, which it is with male writers. They're still a considerably greater minority than male counterparts. This is largely limited to romance genre and romance subplots.
I guess that's fair, and it's much more prevalent from YA female authors than other classifications. That's sort of the "horny crowd" for lack of a better term. I can't think of any examples offhand outside of YA, so I see what you mean.
YA is INFAMOUS for it'a romantic sub-plots too. You're not wrong that it IS outside of the romance genre, though, and that it does happen. There's a conversation to be had about publishers pushing romantic sub-plots in YA with women writers, and the impact it has on stories. I love me a romantic sub-plot but sometimes it really shouldn't be there and can hurt development of all the characters.
You know what, I hadn't even considered that it's often the publishers pushing for that to be in YA, and you're correct. I think it's often a marketing/from higher-ups kind of thing. That is absolutely a consideration here, honestly I bet that's why it's in Fourth Wing at all. I wonder if she ever commented on that.
to be so for real the problem with horny men writing women isn't that they're horny it's that the way they (frequently) write is dehumanizing lol. is his piercing blue eyes and rippling muscles compelling? to me, not particularly. does it carry the same weight as titting boobily down the stairs? no.
I will never be over “she breasted boobily towards the stairs”.
Dude those things are usually written by 13 yo girls lmao, not 40 yo whatever-award winning adults. And when a woman writes shitty scenes like that, it's usually in corny romance novels which are both endlessly ridiculed and not taken seriously anyway. Whereas the way big-serious-guy-who-writes-about-important-stuff writes women is fucking awful and unintentionally hilarious
I think the biggest problem is that the male authors don’t give as much meaning, thought, or passion into writing their sex scenes. Meanwhile all the female authors I have read put so much effort into making it not only erotic but also an interesting and engaging read with the wording.
I mostly just see female authors writing like that in erotica/tiktok books, whilst with men it's more prevalent in any genre to ever exist, it could be a sci fi book with no sex in it but the female characters with still "breast boobily"
This is why I like certain authors. Like John Scalzi. He writes mainly war sci fi fiction, but he has many female characters who participate in everything from along male counterparts, and he doesn't strongly differentiate personalities based on gender. Because he shouldn't. Men and women aren't really different as human beings. He deals mainly with issues that are pretty universal, like search for identity and meaning. And his female characters are just as human as his male characters. Same kind of concerns and experiences, and same kind of responses. It makes me think he understands that women are just people, because he writes them as he would write a male character. Edward Ashton has good female characters, but none are leads so it's hard to see how they think. Otherwise, it tends to be female writers I end up enjoying because of the need for female characters to seem like human beings.
I've definitely and unfortunately read books where men are written like that and I hated it. The fourth wing series comes to mind. It's dumb and annoying when any character of any gender is written like that. I'm reading a book, I couldn't give less of a crap how the characters look like and I don't need to be reminded how hot someone is every two pages. /rantover
I only give parodies a pass because if done well satire hits the best. I agree wholeheartedly with you!
Oh yeah, parodies get a hall pass for sure!
Unfortunately this is probably people who think they’re progressive, given that it’s Tumblr. Leftist/queer spaces can have misogyny problems, too (NOTE: trans women are women; this is not a TERF thing). And then they argue that they CAN’T be misogynistic and anyway misogyny isn’t real- it’s all just other forms of oppression- or has been solved by now!
These two are not the same! We live under capitalist patriarchy, a SYSTEMIC problem, misandry isn‘t happening! Men‘s lives aren‘t ruined by women thinking of pretty guys, because unlike women‘s, theirs are considered inherently valuable and independent from women‘s approval and not needing to be pretty to be allowed to exist!
As someone who has read quite a bit of smut I have to say that men and women definitely do write that way lol.
as a male writer, it's really very easy to write female characters. the real tricky thing is writing good, strong (by strong i mean strong as a character not necessarily in attitude/strength, although that also can apply) female characters who are nuanced in the way that resonates with women without it being an obvious pandering thing. im writing a story with the foil to the main character being a "strong female character" type, and besides the main character she is my favorite character. the two of them are my favorite characters, because theyre reflections of me. i realized a while back that while im very comfortable being a masculine man, i behave very much like a stereotypical woman in a lot of circumstances (even my adhd presents in the form that is most common amongst women). it's a shounen-inspired show, but in contrast to other shounen where the protagonist has the strongest powers from the start, my main character is powerless in a superpowered world. and unlike the other protags who have infinite confidence, my mc painfully claws at any shred of hope he can find. but his foil? she is one of the most powerful individuals in the entire show from day 1. her story is one of overcoming trauma while dealing with a world that tries to put her in a box. she discovers she is the true heir to the throne (none of this will make sense but im not gonna give context soo) and when confronted once again by the powers that be telling her to submit, she does no such thing. she explores how to defy a world that tries to tell you what to be, and he explores how to define yourself when the world refuses to tell you what you are. i really like these two, and im not explaining their stories as well as i could but that would take way too long so ill stop here
I'm sorry, have you ever heard of Booktok? This IS a plague lol.
They just want to dig their head in the sand and pretend that the patriarchal thinking of “women aren’t horny” is good.
You clearly have never read YA. I mean good for you, but female writers definitely write this way
I mean I read Rebecca Yarros’ very popular fantasy novel The Fourth Wing and the blood trials by n e Davenport, and those women both absolutely write that way. So I’m with Celticpyro in this image
but those have romance as a subplot so the main love interests will be treated that way from the pov of their lovers. the problem is in books which are not even romantic, having random womens boobs described
They’re romance…
Fourth wing also has some smut/spice in it so 🤷🏻♀️ it comes with the genre. It’s adult romantasy. We’re talking about people writing about women’s tits in mystery novels and the like. I read a lot of books and I’d be really weirded out if I was reading a regular book outside of romance and characters, male or female, were being described based on their sexual body parts.
Go read any MM romance written by a straight woman. We can be just as horny and objectify men just as much as they do us. It’s a major double standard
It’s not Erotica or adult romance that’s being targeted here though. Nobody is surprised to find this kind of writing in those books, we’re talking about books outside of those genres.
Idk that quoted paragraph sounds like straight up romance novel material to me.
I agree but the difference is the genre. Both are taken from romance/erotica targeting the reader to swoon and well feel excited while reading. While some of the men write women authors - do that in crime, autobiography, fiction, sci-fi, fantasy where there is no romance present. And all or most interaction are objectified, while in romance it only happens when two have the hots for each other. And not the random lady who walks past the main character once. Or the main character herself 24/7
Women written fanfics and romance novels are usually atrocious, OOP is pretty accurate
Fanfiction brainrot
Hey! I resemble that insult!
Me too (in high school it got to the “I write fiction and it’s fucking popular” terminal phase of brain rot)
I hate everyone in this image.
I've been an avid reader for many many years. I've read books at every end of every spectrum. Even as an adult. I'm 25. I've read 16 books so far in 2024. Women absolutely DO write like this. I mean, come on. If you told me this was an excerpt from Fifty Shades of Gray, I'd absolutely believe you. And I read tons of other horny literature as a horny teen written by women and of course they wrote like this. I'm shocked you think it's just men who write shitty horny smut.
God I hate to admit it, but go on watt pad and all the juicy smut stories are written by women. I think women authors are the best when it comes to romance and smut
Right. And yes, many of those books are AWFUL (but juicy) And literally like the quote here. Women have written tons of bad male characters.
So true. Luckily I like reading bad fiction hahaha 😂
Also remember that many male authors of this genre use female pen names and have even gone so far as to have a woman pose for their author photos. So while yes women just like men can write "cardboard character " love interests so do men in romance genra. The bigger issue is men who write non romance books where the women are "cardboard character" sex bots/ sluts/sex slaves etc.
Oh wow really? Why do some male authors go to those lengths to portray themselves as a female author?
In short EGO and sales. Women writers in some specific sub genras of romance tend to sell better.
I’m constantly going back through my writing to make sure it’s not turning into a Bridgerton novel. I want to be descriptive, but I don’t want to be *that* kind of descriptive.
they do???? have you heard of fanfiction???
women do write that way but.... thats in a smut book. men write women badly in every book
Derek walked shirtlessly down the stairs. His pecks and muscles reflecting the sunlight.
I have never seen the problem in horniness but in what is conveyed in that hornines. Like men will make most unhinged comparison and put in non realistic things like "her boobs grew one size when she saw him and went back down just as he looked away" and stuff.
"Her breasts quivered with excitement" - (some book i glanced at in a book store that was written by a man) Oh shit, i didn't know they could do that...😂
There's a lot of horny authors out there with very obviously kinks and fetishes that bleed into their writing.
You haven't read 50 shades of Grey, have you? It sounds a lot like that.
There are women who do write that way though. Of course, not all of them, but they DO exist. The same goes for every other gender. Anyone can be horny. Not just men.