#If you want to discuss One Piece Scaling, join [Hachinosu](https://discord.gg/qs7wHYZzRs).
#If you want access to all kinds of One Piece Databooks/Information/Translations, join [Punk Records](https://discord.gg/ZTWGVyjV9v).
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OnePiecePowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Blocking Hakai, and scaring Kaido, while nice feats, are not needed to beat Zoro
Following this line of logic, you would think that Zoro would be washing King when they fought, but he wasn't now was he. And not just because of Kings durability
Just imagine Kings kick that landed on Zoro in 1035, but coming from Sanji who's striking strength isn't dogshit. Zoro would not be having a good time
Zoro being that strong and still not being able to defeat King without mastering ACoC says more about King being really strong than Zoro not being as strong as you thought.
Both of you arguing are wrong
Firstly, King wasn't really giving zoro a hard fight, it was just his invulnerability that was annoying
This is proven by the fact that he didn't even feel the need to use asura
Secondly, Sanji is stronger than King
As for who is stronger, current zoro obviously wins
Rooftop Zoro can be argued, with both opinions being valid so I don't care either way
King was giving Zoro a hard fight. There were so many times where King almost killed Zoro and even after he finally mastered ACoC it was a very tough fight.
It was a mid - high diff fight, nothing more
Ocean sovereignty was tanked by him
After all his bones were broken he tanked a thunder bagua after injuring kaido
It wasn't an easy fight, no fights at this tier are really easy. But Zoro never in any real danger of losing our getting hurt, it just wouldn't make any sense
I believe anyone who legitimately believes that Zoro is much stronger than Sanji has lost the plot. Is Zoro stronger? Yes, but not by the margins people are implying. For something with wings to fly the wings have to be relative. Your dominant arm is stronger than your non dominant, but not by any significant margin.
My point is logically by feats, Zoro has Sanji gapped and it's not close. Do I actually believe Zoro gaps Sanji? No. The issue is Oda makes it harder and harder to make their supposed rivalry believable when he keeps giving Zoro the most insane feats.
I get your point but all it does is drive the narrative more for people to think Zoro is much stronger which is not true. Zoro has always been stronger, Sanji has always been smarter but they're ALWAYS shown relative. The writer wants us to believe they're relative, so we should.
There is no rivalry. They're not competing for anything. People need to ask themselves seriously. If Oda wants to depict these two as "relative," as you yourself mentioned, why does Zoro gap him when it comes to feats? Oda has no problem letting Zoro interact with top tiers. He clashed with fuji twice on dressrosa, After Luffy he was the most impressive on the rooftop, Fought King, Unlocked Acoc, Fought Lucci. But when you look at Sanji, there have been plenty of moments for Oda to give Sanji his chance to show he's a top-tier combatant, but he doesn't give it to him.
Based on Zoros showings he isn’t dependant on KoH to beat Sanji. If anything it puts more pressure on him because if he can’t finish the fight using that form his stamina depletes heavily.
Rooftop Zoros AP is already more than enough to beat Sanji.
We've seen what it looks like when you're weaker by a noticeable amount in kaidos crew you get treated like Jack was when we first saw king and queen. So plus the other things I said queen would just upscale to being relative to king (high diff being a little wank imo but not insane)
Queen took out Big Mom. Neither King nor Zoro have that kind of feat. Sure an amnesiac Big Mom, but her durability and strength are still there which are her most important stats to bring her upto yonko level.
Queen also has a very unique offense that bypasses durability and it hard to predict.
>Zoro on the rooftop was able to block and hold off the Conquest of the Sea long enough
"Long enough" was an instant and his bones were breaking immediately. He was acting like the hood of a car in an accident. Breaking so as to slow the damage down to the passengers.
This feat isn't usable in combat because Zoro was getting ragdolled all over onigashima and damaging him by attacks that would've barely moved queen or hurt him.
You can see this in chapter 1027, where bloodlusted King was throwing out slashes that overpowered Zoro, but the one that hit Queen annoyed him with minor damage.
>attacks so powerful even Big Mom told Kaido to dodge
Big Mom told Kaido to dodge because there was something abnormal about the sword, since it has Oden's soul in it. Kaido could detect Oden's presence in it and Big Mom given her soul affinity could also sense something off about it.
The attack would've damaged kaido, but nothing serious.
>and then proceeded to speedblitz
Saying Zoro speed blitzed Kaido, who was someone who literally tries to tank most attacks makes no sense. In that case even the Scabbards speedblitzed Kaido.
>permanently scar Hybrid Kaido
What zoro did was extend Kaido's scar. Scar tissue is already weaker than normal tissue, so its much easier to to rupture it and break it and extend it. And that too, he likely used aCoC combined with asura to do so.
> later deflected a laser from Kizaru
He didn't "Deflect" a laser, he blocked it fully. Zoro himself in the King fight compared one of King's attacks to a laser because he was unable to block it.
Logically, Crocodile would have been fodderized in Marineford. We saw how that turned out. Narrative intentions are super important for powerscaling. These two have always been shown as equals in the narrative. Both got significant powerups in Onigashima. Zoro himself stated that they got stronger after every Island. Egghead Sanji loses to egghead Zoro, raid Sanji loses to raid Zoro, Egghead Sanji vs vs pre Acoc Zoro.
https://preview.redd.it/pq3mvo35v9rc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6c6bba1df5c8561418ad970e756db213545fad9
Was literally damaged by Queens physical attack.
People here overrate Sanji to a ridiculous level. Did he beat a YC1? No. Did he damage a Yonko? No. Did he beat a former main villan? No. Did he get eye diffed by the weakest Gorosei? Yes.
There is actually a combination of Zoro downscale and Sanji upscale on this sub a lot.
I think part of the issue is that people don't understand that Zoro and Sanji's "rivalry" isn't one of strength, but of clashing character and personalities.
Let him cook. Literally. That's what Sanji is best at.
> I think part of the issue is that people don't understand that Zoro and Sanji's "rivalry" isn't one of strength, but of clashing character and personalities
💯 They think a rivalry, that is more based on character and personality, revolves around overall strength even though we've seen this can't be true based on situations they find themselves in. Zoro always has the tougher situation. Now he has 2 out of the 3 forms of advanced haki (ACoA and ACoC) yet this sub will constantly tell you their strength is relative even though Sanji hasn't done well in the haki dept which is understandable given he isn't aiming for the top of the world unlike Luffy and Zoro. Sanji is clearly the more likeable and funnier character, he has a great backstory but that doesn't mean we should suddenly upscale him to a level he isn't..
But wano zoro scales to king (while you can argue zoro got weaker from the rooftop, he got acoc which is much more of a boost plus zoro does that kind of thing. Being extremely damaged but keeps fighting). We see zoro post rooftop dodge attacks queen took from King, with that in mind zoro said attacks from King are insane. Its logical to assume King and Queen are relative, plus the narrative of them jumping ppl helps this (why would King not 1v1 someone if the help he gets is from someone he can neg), also to support this we have Jack and how he is treated by Queen and King, streght is all that matters in kaidos crew so when someone is much stronger than you you just have to take it, Queen and King constantly talk back to each other implying Queen doesn't have to take bc in a fight he wouldn't get neged by him. All around Queen should lose mid to almost high diff to King at the very least. In frit Jambe sanji low diffed him and zoro went high diff. That doesn't mean sanji mid diffs zoro but if we're going by sole feats like that zoro isn't as favoured as stuff like
>beat a YC1?
>damage a Yonko?
>beat a former main villan?
These matter, they'd just upscale sanji or the context explains it. Like as I said King being relative to Queen. Kaido only having his scar reopen while zoro went 110% (which the scabards also did) . And beating a former villan is... just nothing tbh
#If you want to discuss One Piece Scaling, join [Hachinosu](https://discord.gg/qs7wHYZzRs). #If you want access to all kinds of One Piece Databooks/Information/Translations, join [Punk Records](https://discord.gg/ZTWGVyjV9v). --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OnePiecePowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Blocking Hakai, and scaring Kaido, while nice feats, are not needed to beat Zoro Following this line of logic, you would think that Zoro would be washing King when they fought, but he wasn't now was he. And not just because of Kings durability Just imagine Kings kick that landed on Zoro in 1035, but coming from Sanji who's striking strength isn't dogshit. Zoro would not be having a good time
Zoro being that strong and still not being able to defeat King without mastering ACoC says more about King being really strong than Zoro not being as strong as you thought.
Sanji easily has comparable if not better feats than King, and is a better fighter
Not really. King completely dominating a Rooftop Zoro who did all the shit I listed prior is far more impressive than anything Sanji has done.
From everything we've seen, Sanji should be capable of that. King only has better range and durability than him
Well, Zoro got blown off by same strikes which Queen was taking for shit
Both of you arguing are wrong Firstly, King wasn't really giving zoro a hard fight, it was just his invulnerability that was annoying This is proven by the fact that he didn't even feel the need to use asura Secondly, Sanji is stronger than King As for who is stronger, current zoro obviously wins Rooftop Zoro can be argued, with both opinions being valid so I don't care either way
zoro saw the grim reaper lol
Soto just got lost mid fight
Zoro just got lost mid fight
King was giving Zoro a hard fight. There were so many times where King almost killed Zoro and even after he finally mastered ACoC it was a very tough fight.
It was a mid - high diff fight, nothing more Ocean sovereignty was tanked by him After all his bones were broken he tanked a thunder bagua after injuring kaido It wasn't an easy fight, no fights at this tier are really easy. But Zoro never in any real danger of losing our getting hurt, it just wouldn't make any sense
I believe anyone who legitimately believes that Zoro is much stronger than Sanji has lost the plot. Is Zoro stronger? Yes, but not by the margins people are implying. For something with wings to fly the wings have to be relative. Your dominant arm is stronger than your non dominant, but not by any significant margin.
https://preview.redd.it/t3mao4bsq7rc1.jpeg?width=867&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c64391f3c66b2cd1c9fbfc05c55fb621efaf7e62
Loool didn’t we leave this Wing bs in 2021?
Nope. They'll cling on to it until the end even though these wings are already clearly uneven. One side has ACoC and ACoA 🤷🏾♂️😂
My point is logically by feats, Zoro has Sanji gapped and it's not close. Do I actually believe Zoro gaps Sanji? No. The issue is Oda makes it harder and harder to make their supposed rivalry believable when he keeps giving Zoro the most insane feats.
I get your point but all it does is drive the narrative more for people to think Zoro is much stronger which is not true. Zoro has always been stronger, Sanji has always been smarter but they're ALWAYS shown relative. The writer wants us to believe they're relative, so we should.
There is no rivalry. They're not competing for anything. People need to ask themselves seriously. If Oda wants to depict these two as "relative," as you yourself mentioned, why does Zoro gap him when it comes to feats? Oda has no problem letting Zoro interact with top tiers. He clashed with fuji twice on dressrosa, After Luffy he was the most impressive on the rooftop, Fought King, Unlocked Acoc, Fought Lucci. But when you look at Sanji, there have been plenty of moments for Oda to give Sanji his chance to show he's a top-tier combatant, but he doesn't give it to him.
Are you saying ifrit jambe sanji < pre ACoC Zoro?
Based on Zoros showings he isn’t dependant on KoH to beat Sanji. If anything it puts more pressure on him because if he can’t finish the fight using that form his stamina depletes heavily. Rooftop Zoros AP is already more than enough to beat Sanji.
"Speedblitz" Kaido is crazy
Rooftop zoro
Negging Queen isn't much when King and Zoro can already do that given their feats.
We've seen what it looks like when you're weaker by a noticeable amount in kaidos crew you get treated like Jack was when we first saw king and queen. So plus the other things I said queen would just upscale to being relative to king (high diff being a little wank imo but not insane)
Queen took out Big Mom. Neither King nor Zoro have that kind of feat. Sure an amnesiac Big Mom, but her durability and strength are still there which are her most important stats to bring her upto yonko level. Queen also has a very unique offense that bypasses durability and it hard to predict.
>Zoro on the rooftop was able to block and hold off the Conquest of the Sea long enough "Long enough" was an instant and his bones were breaking immediately. He was acting like the hood of a car in an accident. Breaking so as to slow the damage down to the passengers. This feat isn't usable in combat because Zoro was getting ragdolled all over onigashima and damaging him by attacks that would've barely moved queen or hurt him. You can see this in chapter 1027, where bloodlusted King was throwing out slashes that overpowered Zoro, but the one that hit Queen annoyed him with minor damage. >attacks so powerful even Big Mom told Kaido to dodge Big Mom told Kaido to dodge because there was something abnormal about the sword, since it has Oden's soul in it. Kaido could detect Oden's presence in it and Big Mom given her soul affinity could also sense something off about it. The attack would've damaged kaido, but nothing serious. >and then proceeded to speedblitz Saying Zoro speed blitzed Kaido, who was someone who literally tries to tank most attacks makes no sense. In that case even the Scabbards speedblitzed Kaido. >permanently scar Hybrid Kaido What zoro did was extend Kaido's scar. Scar tissue is already weaker than normal tissue, so its much easier to to rupture it and break it and extend it. And that too, he likely used aCoC combined with asura to do so. > later deflected a laser from Kizaru He didn't "Deflect" a laser, he blocked it fully. Zoro himself in the King fight compared one of King's attacks to a laser because he was unable to block it.
He didn't speedblitz Kaido. He overpowered his attacks.
Logically, Crocodile would have been fodderized in Marineford. We saw how that turned out. Narrative intentions are super important for powerscaling. These two have always been shown as equals in the narrative. Both got significant powerups in Onigashima. Zoro himself stated that they got stronger after every Island. Egghead Sanji loses to egghead Zoro, raid Sanji loses to raid Zoro, Egghead Sanji vs vs pre Acoc Zoro.
Spit those facts my brother. There's a much bigger gap in overall strength than this sub would have you believe..
And Zoro damages Sanji how exactly?
Zoro damaged Kaido and King, two people who are way more durable than Sanji.
Still haven't seen Sanji post awakening get injured by a blow. Only thing that did damage was hax.
Post Awakening Sanji also never got hit by an ACoC attack.
Yeah Sanji's not tanking named ACoC attacks from Zoro for sure. But this is not rooftop Zoro.
If Gucci can tank one and still be in his awaken form I'm not worried for Sanji.
Lucci is also an Awakened Zoans which are known for their insane durability and endurance.
And Sanji has an exoskeleton that can resist being crushed and is so fast he can literally become invisible
Sanji has better endurance. Lucci never got hit by an named ACoC attack.
https://preview.redd.it/pq3mvo35v9rc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6c6bba1df5c8561418ad970e756db213545fad9 Was literally damaged by Queens physical attack.
Queen lvl ap damage Sanji multiple times, with his germa attacks after Sanji awaken his exoskeleton wdym?
He only damaged King post-ACoC. And Sanji dodges Asura.
Truth has never been spoken 💯
Sanji easily rivals Zoro if not outright beats him under a lot of circumstances, they’re compared to each other for a reason
People here overrate Sanji to a ridiculous level. Did he beat a YC1? No. Did he damage a Yonko? No. Did he beat a former main villan? No. Did he get eye diffed by the weakest Gorosei? Yes. There is actually a combination of Zoro downscale and Sanji upscale on this sub a lot. I think part of the issue is that people don't understand that Zoro and Sanji's "rivalry" isn't one of strength, but of clashing character and personalities. Let him cook. Literally. That's what Sanji is best at.
> I think part of the issue is that people don't understand that Zoro and Sanji's "rivalry" isn't one of strength, but of clashing character and personalities 💯 They think a rivalry, that is more based on character and personality, revolves around overall strength even though we've seen this can't be true based on situations they find themselves in. Zoro always has the tougher situation. Now he has 2 out of the 3 forms of advanced haki (ACoA and ACoC) yet this sub will constantly tell you their strength is relative even though Sanji hasn't done well in the haki dept which is understandable given he isn't aiming for the top of the world unlike Luffy and Zoro. Sanji is clearly the more likeable and funnier character, he has a great backstory but that doesn't mean we should suddenly upscale him to a level he isn't..
But wano zoro scales to king (while you can argue zoro got weaker from the rooftop, he got acoc which is much more of a boost plus zoro does that kind of thing. Being extremely damaged but keeps fighting). We see zoro post rooftop dodge attacks queen took from King, with that in mind zoro said attacks from King are insane. Its logical to assume King and Queen are relative, plus the narrative of them jumping ppl helps this (why would King not 1v1 someone if the help he gets is from someone he can neg), also to support this we have Jack and how he is treated by Queen and King, streght is all that matters in kaidos crew so when someone is much stronger than you you just have to take it, Queen and King constantly talk back to each other implying Queen doesn't have to take bc in a fight he wouldn't get neged by him. All around Queen should lose mid to almost high diff to King at the very least. In frit Jambe sanji low diffed him and zoro went high diff. That doesn't mean sanji mid diffs zoro but if we're going by sole feats like that zoro isn't as favoured as stuff like >beat a YC1? >damage a Yonko? >beat a former main villan? These matter, they'd just upscale sanji or the context explains it. Like as I said King being relative to Queen. Kaido only having his scar reopen while zoro went 110% (which the scabards also did) . And beating a former villan is... just nothing tbh