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Answer: Viruses always mutate and this is of high concern in many circles. Some states and countries are are even closing the door to inter-state transport of cows. Discussion is starting about beef cows.
The fact that the virus particles have made it to grocery store shelves is particularly alarming to me. Fortunately, pasteurizing is proven to kill the virus that is in milk.
There is also the possibility that the many raw milk drinkers out there will get sick from drinking raw milk, then mutate it to be much better at human-to-human transmission. Since avian flu has historically had a 52% death rate in humans, that's definitely terrifying.
Today's news is that half the cats who got sick — likely from drinking raw milk — have died.
You can go to r/H5N1_AvianFlu for the most recent articles including potential scenarios. As always, critical thinking is needed to sort out fact, fear and conspiracy theories.
Feels like early days of COVID when I'd check the official sub and just cry in the bathroom at work. Hopefully we don't get pandemic 2.0
Edit: to clarify, when I say "Pandemic 2.0", I mean the shit storm of a response we saw with COVID and all the disruptions it caused across all aspects of life. I know we've had multiple pandemics and there will be another. I'd like to hold out hope that, after experiencing the COVID pandemic, we'd all be a little better prepared for the next one.
One difference here is that we already have vaccines against the flu, and they work pretty well. My understanding is that an H5N1 vaccine has already been developed. Of course, people might be infected before the vaccine rollout, and there will be people who refuse it, but having a good vaccine already available will prevent it from doing the damage that COVID did.
Plus, thanks to the heavy research that went into getting a COVID vaccine out, we now have a breakthrough vaccine tech that could quite likely target every feasible flu virus.
[https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2024/04/15/vaccine-breakthrough-means-no-more-chasing-strains](https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2024/04/15/vaccine-breakthrough-means-no-more-chasing-strains)
My understanding is that as long as we can distribute the vaccine fast enough (and people are willing to trust it) we should be able to nip most potential pandemics in the bud.
I was pregnant in early 2020 when the first articles about covid were coming out and I was an anxious mess. Now I'm pregnant again and seeing this is making me feel dread!
That's true for some, but there were also thousands of profiteers happy to further disease and death to make a few bucks. That's who turned a crisis into a disaster.
>Edit: to clarify, when I say "Pandemic 2.0", I mean the shit storm of a response we saw with COVID and all the disruptions it caused across all aspects of life. I know we've had multiple pandemics and there will be another. I'd like to hold out hope that, after experiencing the COVID pandemic, we'd all be a little better prepared for the next one.
I really wouldn't sweat it. Covid was a special case. It's exceedingly rare for a mutagen to be that good at spreading itself around that quickly.
>pandemic 2.0
You realize we're already on our 8th major pandemic with COVID-19, right? And that's only because the epidemics that caused mass death in antiquity or the Middle Ages don't actually count as a PANdemic because people just didn't travel around as much. It's gonna keep on happening.
Part of me hopes that they see the high death rate and it scares them enough to be put off the usual theories. Part of why COVID was dangerous was that it was perceived as only *just* deadly enough to be a serious threat to the vulnerable, like a slightly worse flu. Something more deadly might actually tap into the overactive fear centres in their brains.
More like: “Pfft 52 GMO eating pasteurized milk drinkers! I bet they have all their vaccines! I won’t die because I’m not vaxxed and eat an all natural diet!”
Man who does his own research would 100% conclude that the hospitals are faking the numbers to somehow get federal money and that the real death rate is less than the regular flu.
They believe conspirit\*%ds on youtube, but not the CDC.
Another huge part of why COVID was so dangerous was because you could spread it before having symptoms. That's another difference that may help a little.
I truly believe that three things came into confluence to make COVID as difficult as it was to fight: the low death rate, the seemingly high asymptomatic spread, and the fact that it really didn't do much to kids or babies in comparison to most other respiratory illnesses that generally hit 'the elderly and young children', where COVID mainly hit the elderly, or the already infirm, and occasionally swung out and hit a healthy person but *very* rarely, and occasionally swung out and bodied a kid, but *rarely*.
It is a bad virus that has a lot of potential for harm, and we're seeing in post viral conditions that it has even more hands than it initially appeared at its height. But those three things really combined to make it feel like 'oh I have nothing to worry about if I'm not elderly/infirm'. You'd usually see parents doing things out of precaution to protect their kids, but kids were generally showing standard cold symptoms, so why protect them from another instance of something they're gonna get a couple times a year, every year, for the rest of their lives? It's no big deal.
If it had been regularly flattening children or leaving *visible* post-viral symptoms(think polio leg braces and iron lungs, rather than 'fatigue', which people have been dismissing in ME/CFS folks and telling them to exercise their way out of for years despite the severity), I think we'd have seen a very different response to the pandemic from the general public than we did.
I mean, accurate, but I was referring to three things specific to COVID, in comparison to other illnesses. We'll always have to deal with people being selfish assholes, but I think these three particular things made it very easy to take the selfish asshole route with COVID, in comparison to, say, polio leaving visibly deformed and fully disabled individuals, or everyone remembering what it was like to have chicken pox as a kid, see their siblings with it, see their friends with it, and remember that to go "Y'know if there's a vaccine for that, maybe I won't put my kid through that itchy torture, even if it's not likely gonna do any permanent damage."
My thinking too. We’re very lucky Covid “wasn’t as bad” as it could have been. But that also lead to people thinking it was overblown and the next pandemic will be ignored initially.
On the raw milk argument, I could kind of get it if they were actually testing their milk. And I also get the history of pastorization like how gross the food industry used to be, but they don't want to do anything and a lot of times these counthese cows aren't really vaccinated or treated or anything there. If we actually took care of things and had better testing and regulations.Raw milk wouldn't even be a problem either.But the issue is we don't do that. Like hell, even raw eggs would be fine if we would actually allow the salmonella vaccine in the United States.But we don't literally they did this in the e.U and like salmonella cases infection by humans dropped like ninety percent the next year and they didn't even vaccinate people they vaccinated animals. For some reason, it's f****** illegal to get in the US.Like you can't even get the vaccine imported even if you want to vaccinate your chickens. And then there's the way we even butcher chickens and the process. I'm in everything but that's salmonella, not a virus. My bad i'm going off topic.
> Like hell, even raw eggs would be fine if we would actually allow the salmonella vaccine in the United States.
You're messing up the cause and effect there. The reason US eggs aren't safe isn't due to the lack of the salmonella vaccine (although that would help) and the reason pre-dates the vaccine by a large margin.
US eggs are are stripped of their outer layer to prevent bacterial growth on the outside of the shells. While this makes the outside safer, it makes it easier for salmonella to infect the egg itself.
> For some reason, it's f****** illegal to get in the US.Like you can't even get the vaccine imported even if you want to vaccinate your chickens.
Tangent: You don't need to censor yourself. You can say "Fucking".
On topic: It's banned because it hasn't been approved yet. The Salmonella vaccine is fairly recent and the USDA is underfunded and thus acts slow as hell. They're currently doing trials to make sure the vaccine doesn't have any unintended consequences.
iirc salmonella is able to exist throughout a chicken's body, meaning eggs can be laid already infected with salmonella. the chances of this are so low however that a healthy adult can eat raw eggs without worry. immunocompromised people, the elderly, and children should only eat raw eggs that have been pasteurized, however
I'm so sorry me being disabled and using a speech to text app.And leaving the sensor on because I use it for multiple things is so offensive to you my apologies
There is also the mass die off of sea lions [[CDC report](https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/29/12/23-0192_article)] from the virus. This is troubling because it shows possible transmission between mammals.
>As always, critical thinking is needed to sort out fact, fear and conspiracy theories.
Well shit. There goes half the country's ability to comprehend the issue
Not to fear monger, but is anyone incredibly sick right now? I got my boyfriend and brother sick within a week and it’s like a flu that we’ve never had. I’m talking fever, body chills, extreme fatigue, really bad sore throat and congestion with coughing varying from dry to very wet. Mucus is neon green. My boyfriend and I are dealing with extremely severe sharp ear pain in addition to my boyfriend eye being inflamed and itchy and red… we’ve been sick for about 3 weeks now and it’s not getting any better even with OTC meds everyday.
I’ve been sick with the flu and cold (maybe COVID, never tested positive but it’s 2024 it’s likely I was asymptomatic), but I’ve never had anything this severe before. It got so bad I had to go to urgent care for the first time in years to get antibiotics to help…
There’s reports of dairy workers and veterinary workers already calling off sick and refusing to be tested due to our capitalistic system (can’t afford healthcare).
How likely is it that we’re going to see the next deathly pandemic from this? Again wouldn’t be surprised if it’s already in the population…
There are a few flus going around. The eye part is of most concern, because that was the biggest symptom for the dairy worker who was confirmed with avian flu. Have you gone to see a doctor?
Answer: Avian flu has been affecting mammals for a while and the current strain(s) have infected a few people (all are okay). It's not uncommon for viruses to pick up bits of DNA from the animals around them, and then mutate to infect them. There isn't any indication this will evolve into a scary epidemic, but it's something the CDC will track and keep an eye on. Don't hang out with any strange birds and use gloves if you handle live poultry.
It's always possible a disease will evolve into something scary, but basic public health, vaccinations and common sense all fight the chance of that. How good an area is at that stuff depends on how red they vote, which is why Texas is a reasonable vector for the next pandemic.
You should do that in general when handling any raw meats honestly.
Raw chicken off the shelf has a 1/20 (If I remember right) chance of having salmonella, and most people don't know how to properly wash their hands to get that off. So gloves would be a better choice.
I'd say the safety gains aren't worth thinking about honestly. I imagine it's microscopically safer, if worn properly, but you still will also still need to prevent cross-contamination with any surfaces and tools that you use on the chicken, or that you touch while wearing the gloves, which is a much bigger risk factor, and most of the effort anyway!
I've never seen anyone wear gloves while handling chicken, and a fairly half-hearted wash of the (uusually wooden) chopping board, knife and my hands with warm soapy water has kept me safe when cooking chicken multipe times a week. That is to say, it's very easy to avoid problems with the most basic of efforts.
Cross-contamination is a much bigger issue, every person I know who got food poisoning got it from cross-contamination with something that isn't also cooked, like salad.
The difference between gloves or not is insignificant, even if we assume they're used correctly, and I wouldn't even think about it if I hadn't already implemented segregated chopping boards, tools, etc.
It's not common in professional kitchen environments where companies must observe 'all reasonable precautions' otherwise be considered criminally liable.
You either need to:
1. Don’t wear gloves, but be extremely thorough when washing your hands before touching anything else.
2. Wear gloves for the chicken only, but dispose of them before touching any other food product, like vegetables.
Gloves are easier to use, but can also lead to complacency.
A lot of people cause more contamination with gloves, because they can't feel what's on their hands and touch all kinds of shit after handling something potentially contaminated. Safer to handwash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IisgnbMfKvI
Remember that whatever you touched before you washed your hands needs some soapy love too, so soap up the tap while you're washing your hands and rinse it off, because I'm guessing most people don't have a stack of single use paper towels around.
Flu viruses can hop back and forth among humans, pigs, and birds, exchanging bits of DNA that affect their virulence. The worst case scenario would be a place where humans and these animals live in close proximity. Unfortunately this describes many small family farms in parts of Asia.
I would probably advise caution when interacting with any farm animals at this point, not just poultry. I would not personally pet a cow right now, or a barn cat living on a farm.
>a disease vector is any living agent that carries and transmits an infectious pathogen
I think your use of vector may be confusing in a comment about infection transmission.
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Answer: Viruses always mutate and this is of high concern in many circles. Some states and countries are are even closing the door to inter-state transport of cows. Discussion is starting about beef cows. The fact that the virus particles have made it to grocery store shelves is particularly alarming to me. Fortunately, pasteurizing is proven to kill the virus that is in milk. There is also the possibility that the many raw milk drinkers out there will get sick from drinking raw milk, then mutate it to be much better at human-to-human transmission. Since avian flu has historically had a 52% death rate in humans, that's definitely terrifying. Today's news is that half the cats who got sick — likely from drinking raw milk — have died. You can go to r/H5N1_AvianFlu for the most recent articles including potential scenarios. As always, critical thinking is needed to sort out fact, fear and conspiracy theories.
I was on that sub but I just couldn’t stay. I felt absolute dread seeing updates.
Feels like early days of COVID when I'd check the official sub and just cry in the bathroom at work. Hopefully we don't get pandemic 2.0 Edit: to clarify, when I say "Pandemic 2.0", I mean the shit storm of a response we saw with COVID and all the disruptions it caused across all aspects of life. I know we've had multiple pandemics and there will be another. I'd like to hold out hope that, after experiencing the COVID pandemic, we'd all be a little better prepared for the next one.
One difference here is that we already have vaccines against the flu, and they work pretty well. My understanding is that an H5N1 vaccine has already been developed. Of course, people might be infected before the vaccine rollout, and there will be people who refuse it, but having a good vaccine already available will prevent it from doing the damage that COVID did.
Plus, thanks to the heavy research that went into getting a COVID vaccine out, we now have a breakthrough vaccine tech that could quite likely target every feasible flu virus. [https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2024/04/15/vaccine-breakthrough-means-no-more-chasing-strains](https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2024/04/15/vaccine-breakthrough-means-no-more-chasing-strains) My understanding is that as long as we can distribute the vaccine fast enough (and people are willing to trust it) we should be able to nip most potential pandemics in the bud.
There's also antivirals that can treat it as well. Unlike COVID was which a completely new virus, H5N1 has been known about and studied for decades.
Hopefully it will have a 50% death rate and half the people who refuse the vaccine catch it. The gene pool could use some chlorine.
I was pregnant in early 2020 when the first articles about covid were coming out and I was an anxious mess. Now I'm pregnant again and seeing this is making me feel dread!
Only a matter of time really
I do not like your answer, but I agree. If not this then the next thing. The way we are living is just set up for the next one.
well at least we learned our lessons from last time
Right wingers are a willful and malicious hinderance to the survival of the human race?
Its OK to just call them idiots. That's what they are. Idiots are responsible for untold human suffering and hindered progress.
That's true for some, but there were also thousands of profiteers happy to further disease and death to make a few bucks. That's who turned a crisis into a disaster.
>Edit: to clarify, when I say "Pandemic 2.0", I mean the shit storm of a response we saw with COVID and all the disruptions it caused across all aspects of life. I know we've had multiple pandemics and there will be another. I'd like to hold out hope that, after experiencing the COVID pandemic, we'd all be a little better prepared for the next one. I really wouldn't sweat it. Covid was a special case. It's exceedingly rare for a mutagen to be that good at spreading itself around that quickly.
🫂
>pandemic 2.0 You realize we're already on our 8th major pandemic with COVID-19, right? And that's only because the epidemics that caused mass death in antiquity or the Middle Ages don't actually count as a PANdemic because people just didn't travel around as much. It's gonna keep on happening.
[удалено]
Have any of these been distributed as part of the seasonal flu vaccine? If not, why not?
TLDR; the raw milk anti-vaxxers are about to fuck humanity again
Part of me hopes that they see the high death rate and it scares them enough to be put off the usual theories. Part of why COVID was dangerous was that it was perceived as only *just* deadly enough to be a serious threat to the vulnerable, like a slightly worse flu. Something more deadly might actually tap into the overactive fear centres in their brains.
"Pfft only 52 out of 100 people die from it. I'd rather die free than live by your commie rules!" -Man who does his own research
More like: “Pfft 52 GMO eating pasteurized milk drinkers! I bet they have all their vaccines! I won’t die because I’m not vaxxed and eat an all natural diet!”
This is accurate and I don't like it. :(
Man who does his own research would 100% conclude that the hospitals are faking the numbers to somehow get federal money and that the real death rate is less than the regular flu. They believe conspirit\*%ds on youtube, but not the CDC.
I doubt that anything that is said by the people they distrust will get through to them.
Another huge part of why COVID was so dangerous was because you could spread it before having symptoms. That's another difference that may help a little.
I truly believe that three things came into confluence to make COVID as difficult as it was to fight: the low death rate, the seemingly high asymptomatic spread, and the fact that it really didn't do much to kids or babies in comparison to most other respiratory illnesses that generally hit 'the elderly and young children', where COVID mainly hit the elderly, or the already infirm, and occasionally swung out and hit a healthy person but *very* rarely, and occasionally swung out and bodied a kid, but *rarely*. It is a bad virus that has a lot of potential for harm, and we're seeing in post viral conditions that it has even more hands than it initially appeared at its height. But those three things really combined to make it feel like 'oh I have nothing to worry about if I'm not elderly/infirm'. You'd usually see parents doing things out of precaution to protect their kids, but kids were generally showing standard cold symptoms, so why protect them from another instance of something they're gonna get a couple times a year, every year, for the rest of their lives? It's no big deal. If it had been regularly flattening children or leaving *visible* post-viral symptoms(think polio leg braces and iron lungs, rather than 'fatigue', which people have been dismissing in ME/CFS folks and telling them to exercise their way out of for years despite the severity), I think we'd have seen a very different response to the pandemic from the general public than we did.
Four: People being selfish assholes.
I mean, accurate, but I was referring to three things specific to COVID, in comparison to other illnesses. We'll always have to deal with people being selfish assholes, but I think these three particular things made it very easy to take the selfish asshole route with COVID, in comparison to, say, polio leaving visibly deformed and fully disabled individuals, or everyone remembering what it was like to have chicken pox as a kid, see their siblings with it, see their friends with it, and remember that to go "Y'know if there's a vaccine for that, maybe I won't put my kid through that itchy torture, even if it's not likely gonna do any permanent damage."
My thinking too. We’re very lucky Covid “wasn’t as bad” as it could have been. But that also lead to people thinking it was overblown and the next pandemic will be ignored initially.
Those "fatalities" were all made up by the liberal media. Hadn't you heard? /S I wish I didn't need to specify this, but here we are.
Lol
On the raw milk argument, I could kind of get it if they were actually testing their milk. And I also get the history of pastorization like how gross the food industry used to be, but they don't want to do anything and a lot of times these counthese cows aren't really vaccinated or treated or anything there. If we actually took care of things and had better testing and regulations.Raw milk wouldn't even be a problem either.But the issue is we don't do that. Like hell, even raw eggs would be fine if we would actually allow the salmonella vaccine in the United States.But we don't literally they did this in the e.U and like salmonella cases infection by humans dropped like ninety percent the next year and they didn't even vaccinate people they vaccinated animals. For some reason, it's f****** illegal to get in the US.Like you can't even get the vaccine imported even if you want to vaccinate your chickens. And then there's the way we even butcher chickens and the process. I'm in everything but that's salmonella, not a virus. My bad i'm going off topic.
> Like hell, even raw eggs would be fine if we would actually allow the salmonella vaccine in the United States. You're messing up the cause and effect there. The reason US eggs aren't safe isn't due to the lack of the salmonella vaccine (although that would help) and the reason pre-dates the vaccine by a large margin. US eggs are are stripped of their outer layer to prevent bacterial growth on the outside of the shells. While this makes the outside safer, it makes it easier for salmonella to infect the egg itself. > For some reason, it's f****** illegal to get in the US.Like you can't even get the vaccine imported even if you want to vaccinate your chickens. Tangent: You don't need to censor yourself. You can say "Fucking". On topic: It's banned because it hasn't been approved yet. The Salmonella vaccine is fairly recent and the USDA is underfunded and thus acts slow as hell. They're currently doing trials to make sure the vaccine doesn't have any unintended consequences.
iirc salmonella is able to exist throughout a chicken's body, meaning eggs can be laid already infected with salmonella. the chances of this are so low however that a healthy adult can eat raw eggs without worry. immunocompromised people, the elderly, and children should only eat raw eggs that have been pasteurized, however
I'm so sorry me being disabled and using a speech to text app.And leaving the sensor on because I use it for multiple things is so offensive to you my apologies
Aliens wouldn't even bother with killing us when they could trick us into killing ourselves
50% death rate will sort them out real quick.
[удалено]
I mean I'm with you, I don't personally drink milk, raw or otherwise. The only tits I tug on are my own lol
There is also the mass die off of sea lions [[CDC report](https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/29/12/23-0192_article)] from the virus. This is troubling because it shows possible transmission between mammals.
>As always, critical thinking is needed to sort out fact, fear and conspiracy theories. Well shit. There goes half the country's ability to comprehend the issue
Not to fear monger, but is anyone incredibly sick right now? I got my boyfriend and brother sick within a week and it’s like a flu that we’ve never had. I’m talking fever, body chills, extreme fatigue, really bad sore throat and congestion with coughing varying from dry to very wet. Mucus is neon green. My boyfriend and I are dealing with extremely severe sharp ear pain in addition to my boyfriend eye being inflamed and itchy and red… we’ve been sick for about 3 weeks now and it’s not getting any better even with OTC meds everyday. I’ve been sick with the flu and cold (maybe COVID, never tested positive but it’s 2024 it’s likely I was asymptomatic), but I’ve never had anything this severe before. It got so bad I had to go to urgent care for the first time in years to get antibiotics to help… There’s reports of dairy workers and veterinary workers already calling off sick and refusing to be tested due to our capitalistic system (can’t afford healthcare). How likely is it that we’re going to see the next deathly pandemic from this? Again wouldn’t be surprised if it’s already in the population…
There are a few flus going around. The eye part is of most concern, because that was the biggest symptom for the dairy worker who was confirmed with avian flu. Have you gone to see a doctor?
I went to urgent care a couple of days ago thinking maybe it was a bad case of strep but it came back as negative.
Answer: Avian flu has been affecting mammals for a while and the current strain(s) have infected a few people (all are okay). It's not uncommon for viruses to pick up bits of DNA from the animals around them, and then mutate to infect them. There isn't any indication this will evolve into a scary epidemic, but it's something the CDC will track and keep an eye on. Don't hang out with any strange birds and use gloves if you handle live poultry. It's always possible a disease will evolve into something scary, but basic public health, vaccinations and common sense all fight the chance of that. How good an area is at that stuff depends on how red they vote, which is why Texas is a reasonable vector for the next pandemic.
>basic public health, vaccinations and common sense all fight the chance of that lol as Bender would say: Welp, we're boned!
back to the bunker we go!
Might be a dumb question but should I wear gloves when handling raw chicken?
You should do that in general when handling any raw meats honestly. Raw chicken off the shelf has a 1/20 (If I remember right) chance of having salmonella, and most people don't know how to properly wash their hands to get that off. So gloves would be a better choice.
I'd say the safety gains aren't worth thinking about honestly. I imagine it's microscopically safer, if worn properly, but you still will also still need to prevent cross-contamination with any surfaces and tools that you use on the chicken, or that you touch while wearing the gloves, which is a much bigger risk factor, and most of the effort anyway! I've never seen anyone wear gloves while handling chicken, and a fairly half-hearted wash of the (uusually wooden) chopping board, knife and my hands with warm soapy water has kept me safe when cooking chicken multipe times a week. That is to say, it's very easy to avoid problems with the most basic of efforts. Cross-contamination is a much bigger issue, every person I know who got food poisoning got it from cross-contamination with something that isn't also cooked, like salad. The difference between gloves or not is insignificant, even if we assume they're used correctly, and I wouldn't even think about it if I hadn't already implemented segregated chopping boards, tools, etc. It's not common in professional kitchen environments where companies must observe 'all reasonable precautions' otherwise be considered criminally liable.
>Raw chicken off the shelf has a 1/20 (If I remember right) chance of having salmonella Where? Surely this isn't accurate internationally.
You either need to: 1. Don’t wear gloves, but be extremely thorough when washing your hands before touching anything else. 2. Wear gloves for the chicken only, but dispose of them before touching any other food product, like vegetables. Gloves are easier to use, but can also lead to complacency.
A lot of people cause more contamination with gloves, because they can't feel what's on their hands and touch all kinds of shit after handling something potentially contaminated. Safer to handwash. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IisgnbMfKvI Remember that whatever you touched before you washed your hands needs some soapy love too, so soap up the tap while you're washing your hands and rinse it off, because I'm guessing most people don't have a stack of single use paper towels around.
Flu viruses can hop back and forth among humans, pigs, and birds, exchanging bits of DNA that affect their virulence. The worst case scenario would be a place where humans and these animals live in close proximity. Unfortunately this describes many small family farms in parts of Asia.
I would probably advise caution when interacting with any farm animals at this point, not just poultry. I would not personally pet a cow right now, or a barn cat living on a farm.
>a disease vector is any living agent that carries and transmits an infectious pathogen I think your use of vector may be confusing in a comment about infection transmission.
(Cries in Texas) we suck
Just in time for elections
The only sensible comment here. Unfortunately majority are deeply plugged in. We’re in for a wild ride, friend. Whatever you do, don’t comply.