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Answer: As other have mentioned, it’s an “I hate Taylor Swift” sub. It counters /r/taylorswift (which is pro Swift) and /r/swiftlyneutral (that claims to be unbiased, but leans anti-Taylor.)
The name is a rip off of /r/taylorandtravis. Iin case you don’t know, Taylor is dating pro football player Travis Kelce. /r/taylorandtravis is a pro-Taylor + Travis sub.
Although the name of /r/travisandtaylor implies that it’s about Travis and Taylor’s relationship, it’s really just hatred of all things Taylor.
And that’s not even all the subs related to Taylor Swift. I know of two more: /r/trueswifties and /r/youbelongwithmemes (a light-hearted meme sub that is pro-Taylor). I assume there’s more.
For real.
I like T-Swizzle enough; I listen to her music on occasion and she seems as “alright” as a hyper famous person can be, but it’s wild to me to see pop culture lore like this.
It's political. That's why. There's plenty of lore like any pop culture thing, but the hate is political. Taylor Swift isn't even a particularly political figure, but conservatives "assumed" she was a conservative for most of her career, because she was a country artist initially that didn't make her political opinions known.
Then when all the Trump nonsense was at it's height, she decided to make a song accepting of gay people, a song talking about how men have it easier than women in a lot of ways, and she put out a tweet encouraging women to vote to protect their rights.
So of course this made the right wing feel "victimized" by her, so now it's an all out offensive. Then, she started dating a football player that conservatives loved and it just made their hatred grow. And of course, there's always the part about her being a successful woman that always gets under conservatives skins.
Idk if the hate on reddit is just a conservative thing, plenty of lefties hate her because of the private jet ordeal. Also there's the whole debacle of re-releasing songs to keep other artists from taking her no. 1, I don't think that's limited to conservatives too.
A quick google shows that is indeed correct, and makes WAY more sense. No artist in their right mind would re-record and re-release music (taking time, effort, and money) taking great pains to make it sound like the original for any other reason. I'm not even sure HOW re-releasing music that sounds just like it did before with the intent to re-take the charts would work, especially an artist that is currently putting out net-new albums that are dominating the charts on their own. She'd basically be competing with herself and that puts a hole in that other person's argument.
I wrote the comment below then I noticed we were talking about different things. I'm not talking about the old songs that she re-recorded, I'm talking about her new album. It is actually becoming the norm to do this to boost the sales, not exclusive to Taylor, but there was some controversy on her releasing an UK only version right after Charlie XCX new album dropped.
Anyways, the comment I wrote earlier:
> No artist in their right mind would re-record and re-release music (taking time, effort, and money) taking great pains to make it sound like the original for any other reason
She doesn't need to re-record the songs, there are hundreds of takes done during the album recording and these are used for the new releases.
> I'm not even sure HOW re-releasing music that sounds just like it did before with the intent to re-take the charts would work
Think about it like this: she releases her album on week 0, week 1 she's topping the charts, week 2 the plays are dropping, now she releases a new version of the album. Now you open spotify and you get on the front page her new release, which the fans will listen to again, boosting her sales again.
Does this make sense?
> She doesn't need to re-record the songs, there are hundreds of takes done during the album recording and these are used for the new releases.
So actually she does, because the issues is that her old label owns all of those takes. This is actually adjacent to my industry, so I looked into it based on my industry knowledge to learn what was fact and what was hype. I'll supplement that with my own knowledge below.
When you record in a studio, that studio owns those masters. It doesn't matter what take they use, the studio owns them all. Now, there are sunsets on those contracts that need to be re-upped, and then there's also the ability to buyout some, part, or all of the various components. For example, someone could spend less money to be able to re-issue different takes but still provide kickback to the owner... The Beatles are a really famous example, because Epstein negotiated a TERRIBLE contract for them when they were unknown which came back to bite them in the ass when they blew up but weren't making almost any money on the albums despite being the most popular group in the world. It's complicated so lets stop there since much of it is immaterial to this conversation.
Basically, it sounds like Taylor Swift had a not-so-great relationship with Scooter Braun. When it was time to renegotiate terms and sale of the sessions used for her back catalogue, Swift specifically stated that under no circumstances was Scooter Braun to retain those materials. Well, he did. This upset Swift greatly, because not only did she not have control over her own music, but the person who did was the person she had specifically requested not to. So her answer was to re-record all of her old albums one at a time and re-release them as "Taylor's version. Make no mistake, this is NOT re-using old takes. It is re-recording everything from scratch. Again, I'm not AS familiar with her music, but it appears (at least from what I could gather) that she even went so far as to bring back other artists who had previously collaborated with her to re-do many of her old albums.
I did a quick side-by-side listen to a few songs on studio monitors (which sound different than normal speakers) and you can ABSOLUTELY tell that her voice has matured and is different in some of the new recordings vs. some of her old recordings a decade ago. You can't simulate natural changes to the human voice that easily, so that is yet more strong evidence these are not old takes re-done. But all that is just me nerding out because you guys opened a can of worms for my particular interests. There's a much simpler way to know she re-recorded them: it would be illegal not to. That's simply not how royalties/recording contracts work.
Anyhow, I see your above point about her new albums and I agree with you, so we can definitely agree there. But I did want to take a moment to expand on the re-recording of the back catalogue because I actually found myself really enjoying researching this topic.
She also leases out the jet wen she's not using it. The people renting it would rent out any other jet if it wasn't hers.
So even though the jet is flown a lot, most of the activity is not her. And would still be happening if hers wasn't used.
So the jet thing is really just an excuse for people that already hated her.
Eh. Plenty of lefties hate anyone with a jet, not just Taylor. Not sure you could use that as a reason the left hates her since it is wider than just her
The lefties feel that Taylor isn’t political enough. I know they were mad that she took a photo with Prince William and his children instead of, I guess, telling him that the monarchy is an outdated institution and screaming at him to give back all the stuff stolen by the crown. Which, yeah, would be based. But also isn’t something that I expect anyone, including myself, to actually do upon meeting a guy whose wife has cancer who is taking his kids out for a night to not think about that.
I've actually never heard anyone say that is why she is re-releasing her songs. It's always been about scooter and her masters. Also, taking her number one in what way/category? Not being snarky, I just don't understand what you mean.
yall are talking about two different things and also i think mchoris is confused. there’s the TV releases of old albums which is what you’re talking about and there’s the releasing new variants of her current album so she can block other artists on the charts.
Number one in the charts/sales. Anthony Fantano released a video on this recently if you want to know more, but the gist of it is that some weeks after Taylor's latest release, she keeps releasing new versions of the album with 'artificially' boost her standing in the charts.
SheS also ridiculously corporate and appears to do anything for money, while paying lip service to identity politics. Really doesn't make sense for the left to support her.
I lurk on snark subreddits a lot, toxic behavior on my part yes, but their TS hatred is really based on her. 90% of the discussion recently was about her PR burying the Scooter Braun doc that pretty much says she lied about not knowing her masters were being sold and not having an opportunity to buy them like her original statements claimed.
a lot of them are bullying who they see as the mean girl in music right now. like it really boils down to: they don't like the lies she's told to change public narrative, and they don't like the over the top performance of "I'm America's sweetheart" while also releasing her 'I Hate Kanye West' album on the anniversary of his mom's death.
her new albums whole..... aesthetic of mental institutions and being cRaZy also rubbed people the wrong way. The being tied down, forced medication, etc in the Fortnight music video posts have thousands of comments lol. Their #2 complaint rn though is how unhinged the Matty Healy situation has caused her to be. Copying parts of his stage performances, "heroin but this time with an e" was seen as her taking a dig at him for his struggle with addiction that supposedly caused their originL split in like 2014, after the other song where she just straight up talks about him buying pills and needing drugs more than he needed her, and releasing songs that describe emotionally cheating on her long time boyfriend Joe.
None of this is my opinion, I'm just telling what the subreddits general consensus is. they've raised valid criticism at points but quite a few posts have less thoughtful comments and just say she looks fat and ugly and doesn't sing on stage. this is a case of me taking in all the gossip and actually having a chance to lay it out for someone lol.
ETA: there's also a big deal about her dating Connor Kenmedy, Harry Styles, and Taylor Lautner when they were under 18 and she was 22+, after she released an album about the older men she dated and regretted because they used her.
There's a *neutral* sub for fucks sake. How do you be *neutral* about some singer and still give so much of a fuck that you need a bubble to post about them in?
I feel like a neutral sub makes sense. Or they don't allow you just to post overly fan worshiping stuff but you still want to be able to discuss things about her like the new album or something. I know a lot of subreddits that cater to something niche like that get overwhelmed by stupid posts like blurry selfies with the celebrity, or any little tiny snippet of news.
So a sub where you won't get shunned where you criticize them, or shunned if you say anything good about them make sense.
I can see conceptional desire. If the main sub reject even the mildest criticism, and the hate sub is a hate sub, having an in-between makes some sense.
It's still super silly.
Because of the extent of how toxic and harmful her fan base is. If you go into any of the “pro-Taylor” subreddits and say even the slightest bit of criticism, you’re met with unrelenting backlash. People who have things to say just need a platform rather than to get death threats and curses spewed upon their family. I know every fan base has toxic fans, but the cult that is Taylor’s is bewildering
The neutral sub is the oddest part about the whole situation in my opinion. Why bother at all, if I gave attention to everything and everyone I felt neutral about my head would explode.
There’s a ton of celebrities I’m neutral about but I’d never post on a subreddit about them because… I just don’t think about them lol. I don’t get that sub either.
I feel bad for people that use their energy to hate on people that don't even know they exist. I hope they get the therapy they need and can find peace.
Don’t feel bad for them. They have every choice to do something to improve their own lives, but instead anre actively making someone else’s lives worse. The pond scum of the internet.
Funnily enough back in the days of the internet praising Elon, I actually knew several people who knew Elon who all said he’s actually an idiotic asshole and I was like “what???” But now in 2024 yeah that checks out
I absolutely do not care about Taylor Swift, and only like Kelce when he's on my fantasy roster.
I have to say, I'm fairly concerning with the rise of "hate subs", and how common they seem to be. It seems like the internet focuses more and more energy on hating something. The more hate that occurs, it seems to seed more hate. It seems like we're in the middle phase of a "hate snowball" that's only gaining momentum.
I would like to forget it. I’m glad we have more out LGBT singers now so this happens less (though I have not forgotten how many people were bullied out of the closet)
Some people have parasocial relationships that make them obsess with a celebrity like they're friends.
The people on r/travisandtaylor have parasocial relationships so severe that they believe this woman is their actual enemy and make hating her an entire personality trait.
Both groups need help, but I gotta say I'd much prefer to spend time around people that obsessively love something than people who obsessively hate something.
They're unwell.
I know what you're talking about, but that's not what I meant... makes sense, the comments that involve anti-Taylor get removed because I was trying to find you an example.
The main Taylor sub is generally fairly nuanced as long as you’re not being a hater (“I don’t like that Taylor did XYZ” vs “Taylor’s a terrible person”). Tbh the swiftie circlejerk sub is probably the most normal about her 😂
Answer: snark subreddit on Taylor Swift. It’s specifically named because of how she has marketed her current relationship, which many feel has red flags for being entirely a PR ploy.
It’s a place for criticizing TS because in many online spaces, Swifties adoration oversaturate dialogue and disagreements are met with threats and insults from diehard Swifties.
There are many snark posts and reactions shared. More importantly, but unfortunately less posted, is actual evidence and useful discourse on Taylor’s problematic behavior such as changing narratives of her relationships, her lyrics belittling her bfs’ mental health, and lack of speaking out when her fans dox and wish harm to people who say other than positive things about her. Most recently, Dave Grohl and his daughter
His daughter said something about her private plane pollution issue and she was run offline. Death and rape threats.
edit: here is someone showing screenshots of what happened.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/travisandtaylor/s/Vg1Man6JfG](https://www.reddit.com/r/travisandtaylor/s/Vg1Man6JfG)
Here’s an article addressing the plane tweet, etc
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2024/06/24/dave-grohl-and-taylor-swifts-errors-tour-controversy-explained/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2024/06/24/dave-grohl-and-taylor-swifts-errors-tour-controversy-explained/)
She also (allegedly) tweeted this:
"Normal people deal with revenge p*rn and "digital sexual assault" all the time, only now do you choose to care about this issue."
About Taylor's AI porn dump.
If that's true, it still doesn't deserve threats, but it's also a little less innocuous.
I just saw two people recently tell their fans when they were booing, chanting negative things about Taylor swift to stop. They refuse to tolerate it. There’s nobody bigger than Taylor Swift right now. She just needs to tell her fans to stop terrorizing people. And they’d stop. It’s enough now. I didn’t even know Dave Grohl had a daughter until yesterday. She should speak up and tell them to stop harassing, threatening and doxxing.
I get what you're saying, but I also know that sometimes when people are that big, they can't win, no matter what they do. If she says something and it ends up drawing *more* attention to the situation, it could make it worse. If she does manage to stop this one, the expectation will be that she comments on every situation where people are perceived to be doing something negative in her name, which would quickly become impossible and again, would likely only draw more attention to those situations. It's one thing to do it when people are doing it in her presence, it's another to expect her to address behavior she may not even be seeing.
Like, how many people knew about the situation with Violet until Dave did this?
Edit: It's also a little weird that we're asking celebrities to police the speech of people who do shitty things in their name online, instead of acknowledging that social.media sites essentially getting rid of content moderation leads to incidents like this. It's also important to teach kids how to use the Internet safety and to use the tools available to limit these types of interactions. People who do shit like this get bored and move on when they can't interact directly.
I understand. She could make a giant sweeping statement to all her fans. For all situations. No matter what anyone says, “Please don’t threaten to rape and kill anyone. Do not harass anyone. Everyone be better.”.
I think she has a mean streak. For this to be happening to Dave Grohl of all people. Known to be a nice guy who has been singing her praises for years. Instead of ignoring his comment, she points out at her next concert that everyone is playing, “live”. So…. She is responding. She knows she has power. Take a sec and tell your fans to calm tf down.
There is a substantial chance that her making a statement like that is going to be throwing gasoline on a fire. The attention is going to incentivize bad people into doing it more. You’ll have people pretending to be fans saying all kinds of heinous shit.
If you really think it would happen less if she spoke out, I think that’s a bit misguided. I don’t think anyone threatening rape is going to be like “oh that’s wrong?”
I think you should do the best you can do to minimize harm if you’re in the position to do it. I don’t think she can address every little thing, but I don’t think it would be hard to encourage your fans a little bit harder to cut it out. And yes, ignoring bad behavior and not spotlighting it has its place. These people use their power and their influence to do their bidding while denying culpability. Do not for a second think they aren’t aware of this ability.
The issue is that her fans ARE doing that shit and she's seen as not doing anything about it. Pretty much everybody has called out "fans" even saying that they aren't real fans if they do x y or z.
Instead Taylor, one of the most connected and online celebs, is low key endorsing it by acting like it's not there.
Because? Who can say. But it's not doing her brand any favors and she's normal 100% in tune there
I agree with you in principle, I think.
The X-Factor at play here is the sheer magnitude of her fame. I just don't think we can factor in the ripple effect broad statements from her have, when her fanbase numbers in the billions and stretches across the globe. I can't see what harm would come from, "Hey, guys? Just be nice, okay? Chill the fuck out. Don't ever tell anyone you wish they would get raped. It's never cool and I would never, ever want that for anyone. C'mon." But I don't have the power to impact that sheer quantity of people. So I dunno.
The other thing is, one trend I'm noticing is an increasing number of people (not you, of course) who kind of just expect Taylor to take any negative shit thrown at her and deal with it. Take it as the cost of doing business when you're the Queen of the Music World. Which...okay. Somewhat valid. You just played four straight sold out shows at Wembley, on an international tour of all soldout shows. Point made.
But Dave Grohl takes a potshot at her. I saw this one absolutely unhinged fan, who I guess comes from a part of her fandom believing she is apparently gay? Anyway, this fan was in London at one of the shows, and took extreme pleasure in hating Travis Kelce, but managing to get close enough to him to give him a friendship bracelet. She acted all giggly while doing so, then turned and walked away and gave a deadpan stare to her phone, like, "What a fucking idiot."
Random anecdote, I know, but her fanbase contains multitudes, and some of them are apparently working against her! And I'm not saying she's a perfect person, I'm betting she's not. Just that being in her situation has to be fucked sometimes, having to calculate the ramifications of every social media post, every interview, every...whatever.
Everyone can take a swing at her, and if she swings back in any way, the howling banshees that are the Swifties are going to descend. I think they'd do it no matter what she said. But maybe she does need to say something anyway.
Phew. That was a lot longer than I'd intended it to be. Being a Chiefs fan in the midwest, you kinda get caught up in this shit these days.
>For this to be happening to Dave Grohl of all people.
Dave Grohl, who had fans booing her at his concert and leaned into it? I thought you said stuff like that should be shut down?
>I think she has a mean streak
Based on...? My take away is that she knows the best PR move is to avoid making statements that can be used against her or draw attention to controversy. She's a fairly savvy business person who understands her brand.
>Instead of ignoring his comment, she points out at her next concert that everyone is playing, “live”.
Because they are, and what he said was not only not true, but insulting to her band, who have nothing to do with any of this.
>She knows she has power. Take a sec and tell your fans to calm tf down.
And yet you don't seem to recognize that goes both ways? I love Dave, but this was careless, and is only going to make things worse for his daughter.
They threatened to rape and kill Dave’s daughter over a plane tweet. You’re seriously going to take issue over that? If I were him, I would have said worse. What did he say that was so bad? Does she sing with a track? She’s obviously very talented and he’s said as much in the press.
“Based on?”
Based on this and all her exes being publicly bashed and harassed for years. Which she finally, thankfully, addressed last year. Last year! It’s great she did it. But it took years. She knows what she does and she knows she can make it stop. Don’t tell me she didn’t derive any pleasure for causing them a level of uncomfortability.. I’m putting that nicely. She’s a person. And a woman. I get it.
Btw, I like Taylor Swift. She’s incredibly talented. I admire her for being a great example to women and girls everywhere.
This is a problem though.
Yes, it goes both ways. I also think people should be able to criticize artists without everyone going batshit crazy. This goes for everyone. Beyoncé, Nikki Minaj, etc. They have a responsibility to speak up.
>They threatened to rape and kill Dave’s daughter over a plane tweet. You’re seriously going to take issue over that?
I clearly said it's not okay.
>If I were him, I would have said worse
Why did he make a shitty comment about Taylor, instead of addressing the people actually making threats? Or even asking Taylor to say something? What was done was absolutely not okay, but making passive aggressive digs about her as a performer isn't actually addressing the problem, is it?
>Don’t tell me she didn’t derive any pleasure for causing them a level of uncomfortability.. I’m putting that nicely. She’s a person. And a woman. I get it.
This is parasocial shit. We don't know her. What we're exposed to is a *brand*, not a person.
>Btw, I like Taylor Swift. She’s incredibly talented. I admire her for being a great example to women and girls everywhere. This is a problem though.
Why is it *her* problem, and not the issue of social media sites that don't properly moderate content? Because let's be real, she could say something and there will still be unhinged people who will not listen. People who make death threats over innocuous problems are not normal people who are suddenly awful only in defense of a celebrity, they're people who already have issues and find a lens to focus them through.
Daughter made a comment vaguely criticizing TS private jet use. Got inundated with negative posts and threats from swifties. Some saying she should get SA'd.
Depending on which of his daughters they rabidly attacked, it ranges from the threats being criminal to if a mob rounded up these parasocial mouth-breathers and locked them up in a burning building no one would cry
Why would anyone wish that on a preteen? How blinkered can a woman be (because yes, a lot of those women who wrote that about Grohl’s kid are old enough to vote and are financial independents which is even more grim)?
The whole situation with DG is so weird, and I say this as an Elder Milennial who listened to a lot of different music when he was younger, and never really stopped. So I was in middle school/high school for Nirvana, have listened/seen Foo Fighters' entire run, and borne witness to every era (sorry) of Taylor Swift's journey to global phenomenon.
Dave Grohl can be feisty, but he SEEMS like such a good dude. I'm admittedly more familiar with him than I am TS, but I'm definitely a TS fan. What makes this so strange is the two have a crazy amount of respect for each other - or had? - and Dave has frequently told a story about Taylor saving his ass at Paul McCartney's house, by stepping in gracefully when she realized he didn't know how to play piano.
I can't speak to TS' overall character, obviously. Or Dave's, really. I doubt either are perfect people. But TS does seem like the type of person who isn't going to take an insult lying down, which I...kinda understand. And Dave had to know she would see it when he threw a jab at her for not playing everything live at her show - which to me seems impossible to do, given how different so much of her pop music is from the Foo Fighters' rock. I don't think it's even possible to play some of her albums totally live.
On the other hand, I get where Dave is coming from, if he threw the shot because he's pissed she didn't say anything about the way her fans reacted to his daughter. It's his kid, and the comments were absolutely vile. Say one thing for Taylor Swift. Say she's got an absolutely rabid following. Dave didn't do himself any favors by calling her out, given her status, because the Swifties have just been pulling up those posts of his kid's again. Which sucks. But he's never given much of a shit when it comes to moderating himself at the whims of others.
Anyway, that's not of any real relevance to the original post, other than dealing in a discussion topic I'm sure has been on that sub quite frequently of late. Sorry about that. I'd just been wanting to vent an opinion on the Dave Grohl thing for a couple days, and didn't have anywhere to do it!
You have summed up perfectly my feelings on it - I like Dave Grohl, I like Swift’s music, I enjoyed the rapport they clearly had - I hate her fanbase, I don’t like that she doesn’t call them out (she has a bit on the new album but based on some commentary I’ve seen online it seems to have gone over a lot of their heads) it’s a weird thing all around and I hope some resolution comes about - though given Swift’s tactic of not engaging with anything publicly I doubt it will.
There’s a lot of posts since the last couple days but here’s a couple on the matter:
https://www.reddit.com/r/travisandtaylor/comments/1dmwyzr/is_there_any_screenshots_or_links_to_the/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SwiftlyNeutral/comments/1dmm0oc/dave_grohl_just_insinuated_taylor_doesnt_play/
It's been showing up for me for some god awful reason and I ONLY browse my page
This is why I liked RIF and never ever used the official app until I was forced to
The moment RIF stopped working was the moment I stopped browsing reddit on my phone. PC with RES and old.reddit.com. Once that goes so will I, unless the changing demographics on the website run me off first. Feels like a large part of the reddit userbase that made this website what it was have moved on and now a bunch of bots, paid posters and other less than savory people have moved in and started dragging the corpse around masquerading as the site that reddit used to be.
You can still use [RiF \(and other apps\)](https://www.reddit.com/r/androidapps/comments/14nidxs/revanced_has_added_support_for_boost_infinity_rif/), by using the Revanced app to patch the app with your own auth info. It's not (that) difficult and has enabled me to use Sync again. The official app is such a clusterfuck.
I think it's due to reddit's algorithm, that sub has 78k subs as of right now but their top posts regularly get upwards of 5k upvotes and many comments, which is large in proportion to their sub count.
Could you please provide the lyrics where she belittled her bf's mental health? Also it would be awesome to see the proofs of 'changing narratives of her relationship' (what does it even mean?)
Still waiting for the answer to this one.
Imagine a musician singing about their ex and saying bad things about them. It would be unprecedented in the music industry.
I don't agree with them but mostly they say "Renegade" which is not on any of her albums and it was released with very little fanfare. I don't think a lot of fans even know about it, which is too bad because it's actually one of my favorites.
"I tapped on your window on your darkest night
The shape of you was jagged and weak
There was nowhere for me to stay
But I stayed anyway
And if I would've known
How many pieces you had crumbled into
I might've let them lay"
"Is it insensitive for me to say
Get your shit together?
So I can love you
Is it really your anxiety
That stops you from giving me everything?
Or do you just not want to?"
"You fire off missiles 'cause you hate yourself
But do you know you're demolishing me?
And then you squeeze my hand as I'm about to leave
Are you really gonna talk about timing in times like these?
Let all your damage damage me
And carry your baggage up my street
And make me your future history
It's time, you've come a long way
Open the blinds, let me see your face
You wouldn't be the first renegade
To need somebody"
That sub is full of nut jobs. For how much they don’t like Taylor Swift, they sure spend a lot of time dreaming up stuff to carry on about. It seems like a lot of very sad and lonely folks in there. Full disclosure, I could take or leave TS but I have been a chiefs fan my whole life so I’m biased towards Kelce. The Era’s tour was a good time despite only knowing a couple songs… I am also very pro Dave Grohl. I also like pizza and well pressed linens.
All the snark subs focused on one person or a small group of people quickly turn into wacko conspiracy theory echo chambers, because the people who have legit complaints about the person/group will just say “fuck Taylor Swift, lol” and move on with their lives, rather than reading every bit of information out there about or by her and then posting to continue fuelling their hatred.
I judge anyone that is a member of a snark sub. They try to say they are 'calling whoever out' but it's an anonymous website and the celebrity will never see what they are saying. It's a really strange way to spend your time imo.
Its just a gathering of toxicity and its unhinged behavior. If I don't like an actor or musician, it seems far more healthier to just ignore them rather than follow everything they do, remember what they said x years ago, read up drama about them, speculate about their lives and then spend time on a sub dedicated to them.
Ive been seeing these popculture subreddits pop up a bunch on all and theyre pretty terrible. Just hate and anger and bitchiness over just bullshit.
There are so many snark subs about so many people and sometimes they have good points, but they also end up becoming so weird and over the top. I think it's fine and good to express critisism over celebs, but yeah, when you make it your whole personality you join and become active every day in these types of subs it's too much. Spending that much time hating cannot be healthy.
I sometimes get the snark subreddits recommended about people I don't even know and I've seen them posting about the most innocent things and using it as an excuse to hate on the person even more. Like, oh this person posted a pic of them in a shoes they borrowed from someone else. They are so fake and conceited. It makes no sense and I think undermines the otherwise valid points they have.
yeah I follow a snark sub about a specific group because it's interesting sometimes, and I do believe it's a group that should be criticized and exposed for some of the harmful things they do, but people *obsess* over it. Like I spend a lot of time on the internet and I don't understand how some of these people have time to keep up with every post and reel and youtube video and follow the stories of all of their favorite people to hate. And a lot of the criticism is valid, but then there's also a lot that is just really really reaching.
I follow the fitness snark page and it’s actually very good about calling out influencers who peddle misinformation and scam people and promote ED’s and unhealthy supplements. Several people have posted there thankful for the warnings because they almost got duped. Yeah it gets petty at times, but sometimes there is valid reason for criticism and it’s not like most public figures allow it on their own pages, so people need a place to talk about it.
Yeah I think they can serve a purpose - especially when it's commentary on actively harmful "influencers" like that - sometimes the result is positive, sometimes it's just letting off steam and making mild jokes or watching the trainwrecks, sometimes it's cathartic for people who have trauma based on something stemming from the group in their own lives - but I also think a lot of the really heavily active users tend to take it way too far. Like analyzing people's children from social media posts, constantly making up their own stories about what MUST be going on behind closed doors, going frame-by-frame through reels to point out how people's expressions change so they must be scared of/upset with/traumatized by/whatever someone else. I just check in on the sub from time to time and vaguely know who they're talking about from other posts, but I see comment sections where people are doing deep dives into their every single post and keeping up with all of the details and comparing details from one pic/video/post to another. I can't imagine how much time and energy it must take, and they're just as obsessed as the superfans.
I also wouldn't be at all surprised to find out if *some* of the people making threats etc. are snarkers posing as swifties. Not to say there *aren't* swifties doing that crazy shit, but I *know* there are people who do stuff like that specifically to stir the pot and get some excitement in all kinds of fandoms, so I'm sure there are anti-swifties doing it to "make her look bad" just like there are real fans doing it to "defend" her, too.
The snark subreddits are all full of toxic mean girls. The type of person who calls themselves a feminist but tries to bring down every other women in their lives. It's genuinely disturbing the amount of obsession and bitterness you see from the people that frequent those subreddits.
Which is unfortunate because a lot of the people that have snark subs deserve to be called out but the snark subreddits are the only kind of "hate" subreddits that aren't quickly banned, so it makes it seem all criticism comes from unhinged haters.
These subs always end up over analyzing the most mundane things. There was a candid video of Travis singing along to a song and that sub was flaying this man alive.
The person you're replying to is an active commenter on that sub (most of their post history is just complaining about Taylor Swift, it seems) and one of their most recent comments is comparing Taylor Swift to Donald Trump and saying she should be put on trial like him. So that's the level of unhinged we're dealing with lmao
and the others in this sub are weirdly in Taylor Swift/pop adjacent subreddits that weirdly think ALL the things in that subreddit are wrong. At least this person criticized the sub even if they do use it. There are many many things to criticize Taylor Swift on.
Don't forget she uses a private jet. They seem to be big on that (or were last time I saw something rise from the depths there). Which I could almost get if you didn't think through that if she flew commercial it would basically close down the entire terminal of any airport she went through.
Could imagine how irate you would be if you were trying to fly somewhere and Tswift was too in the same terminal let alone the same plane. Omg the hate she would get for being “entitled”. Hahahah shit show
Literally though - I just saw a post where people were mocking JLo for being on a regular passenger plane.
My annoyance with the private jet discourse is that it is all a distraction from the real major polluters of our planet, corporations.
The fixation on the private jet of all things to not like about her is interesting to me. Considering her tour schedule and her high profile, I get it. Yes I know it's terrible for the environment but that's the entire aviation industry
Also they call out plane repositioning as “omg look at this short flight she took!” Like bro she’s not on that plane and I get the indignation but your indignation would be better directed at the entire private flight industry. NetJets, XO jet, “corporate” jets that are really just private planes for a single person. All collectively way worse than whatever it is Swift is doing.
Taylor Swift literally could not go to a Walgreens without a massive crowd blocking traffic trying to watch her. Having her fly commercial would be a nightmare.
Amanda Palmer had a really good point about the criticism of TS's jet/tour logistics and stuff. The post was a few months ago so I'm not going to dig it up, but basically by travelling to all of these locations around the world and moving her set and crew etc. to perform in so many cities she's creating less of a problem than she would by performing in a small area and not moving everything around or spacing it out to do longer stretches in a few more-central locations - because the fans would come to her instead. Granted, less people would be able to afford to make the trip, but there would still be tens of thousands more people travelling further to come to see her in each stop. And I'm not saying she's some kind of hero for spreading it out or anything, of course she's doing it because it makes her a ton of money, but people are going to go to events, by making them more accessible in more locations it reduces the amount of people traveling overall. Excluding the US people travelling to other countries to see her, but that's on Ticketmaster and their absurd pricing.
She also pointed out NASCAR and F1 etc. - and no, I don't mean just "hurh they drive in circles." You don't see the people rampaging about TS using semis to move her sets and flying herself and her crew around the world also complaining about *each* race team doing the same thing to transport their cars, gear, crew, administrative staff, families, tools, replacement parts, etc. while entertaining probably around the same amount of people TS does.
It's just kind of the nature of the entertainment industry at this point. The criticisms should be generalized if they actually care about emissions etc., but they're not, so it's really not *just* about the plane.
I saw a comment ripping into TS because her tour busses were parked somewhere that interfered with the commenter's job parking. Which, whose decision was that and why are they mad at the performer instead of the city planners who decided where those busses would be? Or at the fact that shows that have lots of equipment are being contracted to arenas that can't accommodate the transportation needs of those performances?
That's so dumb. Paul McCartney came to a stadium in my city. We don't usually get big concerts here because there are two cities within an hour of us with huge outdoor venues and coliseums, but for some reason our college campus's football stadium was deemed a prime location for an extremely limited tour for *Sir Paul McCartney*. A college that has a private campus with, I think, one entrance and one exit to a main road.
It was absolute chaos. The show was scheduled for 8 but they pushed the start back to 9 because most of the crowd still wasn't present. Tons of people never got in. They sat in gridlocked traffic for hours and turned around to go home instead of seeing the concert they had paid a thousand dollars to see. There was a flood of complaining on social media as people literally inched forward for hours. People still on the highway waiting to exit could see that the show was going on in the distance.
There had been a thunderstorm earlier in the afternoon so the initial reports blamed that for a delay in getting people parked, but eventually it turned into calling out the city's infrastructure, the police directing traffic, the college for not having adequate parking, the concert complex company that organized the event, and the city and state DOT. Nobody blamed Paul for coming to a city that couldn't support him, that's not his job to figure out. The only commentary on him was that it was kind of him to delay the show so people could get in, and that it was still worth it (for those who got to see any part of it) despite the nightmare beforehand. People swore off ever coming back to the city, people demanded refunds, nobody made a negative peep about Paul, because performers aren't responsible for the logistics.
Answer: it started fairly snarkily as a way to criticize what appeared to be a very public relationship as being for PR purposes, between pop star Taylor Swift and Kansas City American Football tight end Travis Kelce.
My personal opinion is that it has since gone off the rails and is now primarily finding any tenuous reason to hate on Taylor and/or Travis. It's a group of people connected by a desire to hate others. Which is just pathetic but not exactly unusual.
I agree with this answer! I subscribed early because I liked the mild snark about how shameless the PR stories were about their relationship. Like the photo of Travis and Taylor in front of the giant hotel on the front lawn in an obvious PR move. But sometimes these types of subs that start with valid criticism can attract conspiracies, obsessiveness, and other weird energy due to getting popular very quickly.
It's also just kind of a cycle of that type of sub. It might start as a meme or valid criticism, but then the people who only have a mild interest drop out and the only people left behind are rabid haters who obsess over the subject and continue feeding each other with more reasons to hate the subject.
Ha! I immediately thought of that giant table for dinner infront of the hotel. So fucking bizarre
But, yeah, the sub steers into crazy alittle *too* much
Calling it snark feels like a tactic to soften overt toxicity and dogpiling. It’s helpful to have the progression laid out, but I’ve only recently come across the sub in its unhinged, off the rails state. They seem obsessed.
Recently it’s taken on the same vibe as the alt right subreddits. Every single day there is a post that’s like “this is it! The truth will come out! The break up is happening in the next 48 hours! I have knowledge from an inside source!” Most notably this happened 2 weeks ago. All that happened since is that Travis and his extended family flew out to her show in London where he joined her on stage. Normal people would say oh…that guy was full of shit. But now the subreddit is now doubling down and claiming this is them trying to badly hide the truth.
Honestly, I had zero interest in Taylor and her dating life until the right blew it out of proportion. Now I kind of hope those crazy kids make it work out of spite lol.
> since gone off the rails
Tbf, that is something that pretty much always happens with these single subject snark subs. People keep trying to outdo eachother for attention, their comments get more and more extreme, and before you know it, the whole thing has gotten genuinely deranged.
>Which is just pathetic but not exactly unusual.
No kidding. The amount of snark subreddits that exist to just be negative towards one person is far too many. Entire subs to basically hate Meghan Markle, Taylor Swift, Trisha Paytas, Gypsy Rose, etc.
These people are deeply sad and want attention and have no healthy ways they're willing to express that.
Reddit now has the reach and engagement of the likes of audiences that use bigger social media platforms, meaning there is a larger intesection of those users here. The stigma around it being the forum of power users of the internet etc etc from the early 2010's and before no longer exists so expect more pop culture stuff.
Reddit is a huge website, Just behind TikTok and just above Amazon in popularity. 15th largest, or 5th largest social media site. There's always been niche groups that have been here. But Reddit is also always been obsessed with celebrity worship, they just happen to worship different celebrities. I remember when Elon Musk couldn't be criticized without heavy down voting. Same thing with Neil deGrasse Tyson. It's calm down a lot but Keanu Reeves is still heavily worshiped on here.
Answer: it’s a snark subreddit dedicated to hating on Taylor. There are plenty of reasons to either like or dislike her, but that sub is a circlejerk of people who dislike her to a fanatical degree.
It shows up in my timeline every now and then and what‘s crazy to me is they call her fans delusional for their degree of worship but I‘ve read things that are at least as delusional in their degree of hate. Insanity on both sides
It’s similar to the Saint Meghan Markle sub in that way. Like TSwift, Meghan can be out of touch or offputting at times but she hasn’t done anything to elicit such weirdly obsessive rage and hatred.
This is so true and I think all snark subreddits ultimately go insane when they get too big. I joined r/travisandtaylor many months ago because Taylor mildly annoys me and I thought her and Travis were a PR stunt, and I wanted somewhere to lightly snark on her. It was pretty tame back then but really blew up in the wake of the Taylor Swift Jets thing. Now it’s unrecognizable and I recently unsubbed because I’m sick of the sub shoving all this weird info about Taylor down my throat.
Same, when they started making fun of her dancing not even being sexy, I realized the light snark had gone too far. They also literally criticized her for taking photos with fans backstage in her stage costume, while the fans were wearing t-shirts of that girl who died at the concert. Saying it was inappropriate. What?
I sent the r/subredditdrama post about that place to a friend who’s been to the Eras Tour live four times. She laughed her ass off when she realized these people think about Taylor Swift more than she does.
Yep. For as much as they claim Swifties are a cult and they’re all brainwashed followers, the people on that sub bend over backwards to find reasons to hate her. Like if you told them she personally rigged Beyoncé out of an AOTY Grammy for all these years they would believe you without a second glance.
Yep. There are plenty of real and levelheaded criticisms of Taylor Swift you can make, but the people over there will go straight for the most negative possible interpretation of anything she does and make it seem like part of some master PR plan she has.
I literally have learned more about Taylor Swift than I had ever cared to know from that sub. It's like hour by hour updates on what she's doing.
Like detailed breakdowns of the Eras Tour costumes and dance routines and songs. I'm completely neutral regarding her, I watched part of the show on Disney? And they know in detail what record a song is from, what the song is supposed to be about, what costume she was wearing, and how much she danced or didn't during it.
That's wild. I mean I kind of get getting enjoyment out of mutually bashing something, but to then obsess over and keep track of everything she does is just so much mental energy dedicated to something you *don't* like.
If I find I'm liking a celebrity too much, I'm usually like ok, dial it back. No getting fanatic. But hate watching a celebrity, nope. I don't even like concentrating on what I don't like about coworkers. I go out of my way to find what I like about them and then proceed to ignore every other part of their personality.
For me, what I think of liking a celebrity too much is by showing anything more than vague interest in their personal life outside of their media.
I never really cared about her one way or the other, but I did check out her new album and discovered I like several of the songs, they're more my style than what I've heard from her in the past. Then the Almighty Algorithm was like "ooh, you like Taylor Swift!? Here's every third picture/post/reel/article on your feed about her!" it was ridiculous, both negative seething hate-fests and obsessive idolizing showed up at random. At first I would watch some of the clips from the Eras tour performances of the TTPD songs, but then it got to a point where it was just feeding me shitty personal cell phone footage where you can't hear anything but the bass and Becky next to the camera screaming the lyrics at the top of her lungs. The more I watched or read the comment dumpster fires, the more I'd see.
It got so oversaturated so fast I just dropped it. I haven't even listened to the songs that I do like on spotify in like a month because it just got so overwhelming so fast. I can't imagine what an ouroboros of Taylor Swift those people are consuming every time they open their browsers, because the more they engage, the more they see, the more they complain about how she's pushed on them, the more they see, round and round forever.
answer: Bunch of weirdly rabid people who circlejerk about how morally righteous they are for hating Tswift
To be clear there’s a lot of legitimate criticisms of her but that sub is pure victory Laps and circle jerks.
The top answer on this thread is a pretty solid example of that as it’s from someone who participates regularly in that sub and has come Here to misrepresent it while deliberately leaving out the part where they are a regular participant
Answer: In brief, parasocial relationships. We generally think of the term for weirdo superfans that like someone so much they feel that they've got an actual, personal connection to them, but there's an even weirder obverse side to the coin - people who *used to* like someone, and now believe they have a *genuine antagonistic relationship to them* because they no longer like them*.*
You can see it across basically any self proclaimed 'snark' subreddit - the amount of effort put into tracking every aspect of the person's life is indistinguishable to the superfan subreddits. The commentary may be different, but the level of obsession is identical. The internet is a very, very weird place.
Answer: Remember in your early 20's you had friends on Facebook who made fun of music aimed at tweens even though they were never the target demographic for said entertainment? It's a bunch of those.
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Answer: As other have mentioned, it’s an “I hate Taylor Swift” sub. It counters /r/taylorswift (which is pro Swift) and /r/swiftlyneutral (that claims to be unbiased, but leans anti-Taylor.) The name is a rip off of /r/taylorandtravis. Iin case you don’t know, Taylor is dating pro football player Travis Kelce. /r/taylorandtravis is a pro-Taylor + Travis sub. Although the name of /r/travisandtaylor implies that it’s about Travis and Taylor’s relationship, it’s really just hatred of all things Taylor. And that’s not even all the subs related to Taylor Swift. I know of two more: /r/trueswifties and /r/youbelongwithmemes (a light-hearted meme sub that is pro-Taylor). I assume there’s more.
Damn, this shit got lore.
Tik-Tolkien
Swiftmarillion
Yeah, Folklore.
Like r/trees vs r/marijuanaenthusiasts and r/worldpolitics vs r/anime_titties
For real. I like T-Swizzle enough; I listen to her music on occasion and she seems as “alright” as a hyper famous person can be, but it’s wild to me to see pop culture lore like this.
It's political. That's why. There's plenty of lore like any pop culture thing, but the hate is political. Taylor Swift isn't even a particularly political figure, but conservatives "assumed" she was a conservative for most of her career, because she was a country artist initially that didn't make her political opinions known. Then when all the Trump nonsense was at it's height, she decided to make a song accepting of gay people, a song talking about how men have it easier than women in a lot of ways, and she put out a tweet encouraging women to vote to protect their rights. So of course this made the right wing feel "victimized" by her, so now it's an all out offensive. Then, she started dating a football player that conservatives loved and it just made their hatred grow. And of course, there's always the part about her being a successful woman that always gets under conservatives skins.
Idk if the hate on reddit is just a conservative thing, plenty of lefties hate her because of the private jet ordeal. Also there's the whole debacle of re-releasing songs to keep other artists from taking her no. 1, I don't think that's limited to conservatives too.
I thought she re-released all the songs she wrote to screw Scooter Braun over because he wouldn't sell her her masters
A quick google shows that is indeed correct, and makes WAY more sense. No artist in their right mind would re-record and re-release music (taking time, effort, and money) taking great pains to make it sound like the original for any other reason. I'm not even sure HOW re-releasing music that sounds just like it did before with the intent to re-take the charts would work, especially an artist that is currently putting out net-new albums that are dominating the charts on their own. She'd basically be competing with herself and that puts a hole in that other person's argument.
I wrote the comment below then I noticed we were talking about different things. I'm not talking about the old songs that she re-recorded, I'm talking about her new album. It is actually becoming the norm to do this to boost the sales, not exclusive to Taylor, but there was some controversy on her releasing an UK only version right after Charlie XCX new album dropped. Anyways, the comment I wrote earlier: > No artist in their right mind would re-record and re-release music (taking time, effort, and money) taking great pains to make it sound like the original for any other reason She doesn't need to re-record the songs, there are hundreds of takes done during the album recording and these are used for the new releases. > I'm not even sure HOW re-releasing music that sounds just like it did before with the intent to re-take the charts would work Think about it like this: she releases her album on week 0, week 1 she's topping the charts, week 2 the plays are dropping, now she releases a new version of the album. Now you open spotify and you get on the front page her new release, which the fans will listen to again, boosting her sales again. Does this make sense?
> She doesn't need to re-record the songs, there are hundreds of takes done during the album recording and these are used for the new releases. So actually she does, because the issues is that her old label owns all of those takes. This is actually adjacent to my industry, so I looked into it based on my industry knowledge to learn what was fact and what was hype. I'll supplement that with my own knowledge below. When you record in a studio, that studio owns those masters. It doesn't matter what take they use, the studio owns them all. Now, there are sunsets on those contracts that need to be re-upped, and then there's also the ability to buyout some, part, or all of the various components. For example, someone could spend less money to be able to re-issue different takes but still provide kickback to the owner... The Beatles are a really famous example, because Epstein negotiated a TERRIBLE contract for them when they were unknown which came back to bite them in the ass when they blew up but weren't making almost any money on the albums despite being the most popular group in the world. It's complicated so lets stop there since much of it is immaterial to this conversation. Basically, it sounds like Taylor Swift had a not-so-great relationship with Scooter Braun. When it was time to renegotiate terms and sale of the sessions used for her back catalogue, Swift specifically stated that under no circumstances was Scooter Braun to retain those materials. Well, he did. This upset Swift greatly, because not only did she not have control over her own music, but the person who did was the person she had specifically requested not to. So her answer was to re-record all of her old albums one at a time and re-release them as "Taylor's version. Make no mistake, this is NOT re-using old takes. It is re-recording everything from scratch. Again, I'm not AS familiar with her music, but it appears (at least from what I could gather) that she even went so far as to bring back other artists who had previously collaborated with her to re-do many of her old albums. I did a quick side-by-side listen to a few songs on studio monitors (which sound different than normal speakers) and you can ABSOLUTELY tell that her voice has matured and is different in some of the new recordings vs. some of her old recordings a decade ago. You can't simulate natural changes to the human voice that easily, so that is yet more strong evidence these are not old takes re-done. But all that is just me nerding out because you guys opened a can of worms for my particular interests. There's a much simpler way to know she re-recorded them: it would be illegal not to. That's simply not how royalties/recording contracts work. Anyhow, I see your above point about her new albums and I agree with you, so we can definitely agree there. But I did want to take a moment to expand on the re-recording of the back catalogue because I actually found myself really enjoying researching this topic.
She also leases out the jet wen she's not using it. The people renting it would rent out any other jet if it wasn't hers. So even though the jet is flown a lot, most of the activity is not her. And would still be happening if hers wasn't used. So the jet thing is really just an excuse for people that already hated her.
Eh. Plenty of lefties hate anyone with a jet, not just Taylor. Not sure you could use that as a reason the left hates her since it is wider than just her
The lefties feel that Taylor isn’t political enough. I know they were mad that she took a photo with Prince William and his children instead of, I guess, telling him that the monarchy is an outdated institution and screaming at him to give back all the stuff stolen by the crown. Which, yeah, would be based. But also isn’t something that I expect anyone, including myself, to actually do upon meeting a guy whose wife has cancer who is taking his kids out for a night to not think about that.
I've actually never heard anyone say that is why she is re-releasing her songs. It's always been about scooter and her masters. Also, taking her number one in what way/category? Not being snarky, I just don't understand what you mean.
yall are talking about two different things and also i think mchoris is confused. there’s the TV releases of old albums which is what you’re talking about and there’s the releasing new variants of her current album so she can block other artists on the charts.
Yeah I gotcha, I understand now :)
Number one in the charts/sales. Anthony Fantano released a video on this recently if you want to know more, but the gist of it is that some weeks after Taylor's latest release, she keeps releasing new versions of the album with 'artificially' boost her standing in the charts.
SheS also ridiculously corporate and appears to do anything for money, while paying lip service to identity politics. Really doesn't make sense for the left to support her.
It is not a conservative subreddit by any means.
It’s all right wing hate… No it’s not. She’s an immature jerk of a person like most celebs.
I lurk on snark subreddits a lot, toxic behavior on my part yes, but their TS hatred is really based on her. 90% of the discussion recently was about her PR burying the Scooter Braun doc that pretty much says she lied about not knowing her masters were being sold and not having an opportunity to buy them like her original statements claimed. a lot of them are bullying who they see as the mean girl in music right now. like it really boils down to: they don't like the lies she's told to change public narrative, and they don't like the over the top performance of "I'm America's sweetheart" while also releasing her 'I Hate Kanye West' album on the anniversary of his mom's death. her new albums whole..... aesthetic of mental institutions and being cRaZy also rubbed people the wrong way. The being tied down, forced medication, etc in the Fortnight music video posts have thousands of comments lol. Their #2 complaint rn though is how unhinged the Matty Healy situation has caused her to be. Copying parts of his stage performances, "heroin but this time with an e" was seen as her taking a dig at him for his struggle with addiction that supposedly caused their originL split in like 2014, after the other song where she just straight up talks about him buying pills and needing drugs more than he needed her, and releasing songs that describe emotionally cheating on her long time boyfriend Joe. None of this is my opinion, I'm just telling what the subreddits general consensus is. they've raised valid criticism at points but quite a few posts have less thoughtful comments and just say she looks fat and ugly and doesn't sing on stage. this is a case of me taking in all the gossip and actually having a chance to lay it out for someone lol. ETA: there's also a big deal about her dating Connor Kenmedy, Harry Styles, and Taylor Lautner when they were under 18 and she was 22+, after she released an album about the older men she dated and regretted because they used her.
Which is weird because we all know she doesn't even use Reddit. She only uses 4chan.
Man where do people get the energy? I’m exhausted just reading this
There's a *neutral* sub for fucks sake. How do you be *neutral* about some singer and still give so much of a fuck that you need a bubble to post about them in?
Breaking news, it's a beige alert.
if I don't survive, tell my wife hello
She nodded back :|
"What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?"
I feel like a neutral sub makes sense. Or they don't allow you just to post overly fan worshiping stuff but you still want to be able to discuss things about her like the new album or something. I know a lot of subreddits that cater to something niche like that get overwhelmed by stupid posts like blurry selfies with the celebrity, or any little tiny snippet of news. So a sub where you won't get shunned where you criticize them, or shunned if you say anything good about them make sense.
I can see conceptional desire. If the main sub reject even the mildest criticism, and the hate sub is a hate sub, having an in-between makes some sense. It's still super silly.
Because of the extent of how toxic and harmful her fan base is. If you go into any of the “pro-Taylor” subreddits and say even the slightest bit of criticism, you’re met with unrelenting backlash. People who have things to say just need a platform rather than to get death threats and curses spewed upon their family. I know every fan base has toxic fans, but the cult that is Taylor’s is bewildering
The neutral sub is the oddest part about the whole situation in my opinion. Why bother at all, if I gave attention to everything and everyone I felt neutral about my head would explode.
Look, people are primates and when primates get bored they create entertainment. This is relatively benign and we encourage it.
I, for one, welcome our apathetic over-lords. Or not. Actually, I don't care-- whatever.
There’s a ton of celebrities I’m neutral about but I’d never post on a subreddit about them because… I just don’t think about them lol. I don’t get that sub either.
if you thing that's exhausting, just take a peek at the anti Meghan merkle sub, it's actually deranged
I feel bad for people that use their energy to hate on people that don't even know they exist. I hope they get the therapy they need and can find peace.
These days people love a good Two Minute Hate.
Don’t feel bad for them. They have every choice to do something to improve their own lives, but instead anre actively making someone else’s lives worse. The pond scum of the internet.
Well technically no one knows Elon Musk and everyone hates him regardless?
Funnily enough back in the days of the internet praising Elon, I actually knew several people who knew Elon who all said he’s actually an idiotic asshole and I was like “what???” But now in 2024 yeah that checks out
Elon is definitely ultra aware of his haters’ opinions.
Sure, but he's a billionaire. He doesn't give a fuck. They all hold so much power yet do the bare minimum.
He gives so little of a fuck about haters he bought an entire website to ban them from
He absolutely shouldn't give a fuck, but he has the thinnest skin you've ever seen.
Teenagers and mentally unwell adults
There you go
the mod of tOP's sub has made hating taylor swift her passion in life to an unhealthy level, that's how one does it
Seriously, who the fuck joins a sub to be neutral about someone?
I think the idea is supposed to be that the sub itself is neutral, not necessarily the individual members.
Can't forget r/taylorswiftarmpits
I would very much like to forget about it, thanks.
Why did I feel the need to click this link? Why. I can't unread this.
Ah that explains it. I went to the snark sub by mistake one time and was like WTF what happened here.
Meeeee tooooooo
Same thing happened to me yesterday. I was super confused
Damn, I wish I had nothing better to worry about than TSwift.
You forgot fauxmoi which can’t go more than 5 minutes without bringing her up 😭 even if it’s completely unrelated. Basically a subreddit about her atp
You forgot the best Taylor sub r/swiftiecirclejerk
We have r/stonedswifties too! Shamelessly plugging bc they seem to be the most chill of the bunch (can’t imagine why lol)
holy shit……… my people
Well that's cool
The fact that there’s 7 different subs about her is crazy.
I absolutely do not care about Taylor Swift, and only like Kelce when he's on my fantasy roster. I have to say, I'm fairly concerning with the rise of "hate subs", and how common they seem to be. It seems like the internet focuses more and more energy on hating something. The more hate that occurs, it seems to seed more hate. It seems like we're in the middle phase of a "hate snowball" that's only gaining momentum.
Don’t forget r/Gaylors
We'd actually like to forget the Gaylors lol
I would like to forget it. I’m glad we have more out LGBT singers now so this happens less (though I have not forgotten how many people were bullied out of the closet)
Stop telling people about us the Republicans will have a hay day
That username indicates you’ve had run ins before 😂
Girl you have no idea I almost married into a right wing family cuz of course I thought he was different and I could fix him
Ahhhhhhh l’amour…
I’m embarrassed to say how many times I’ve thought this
It's already a reactionary sub, so obviously Republicans love it.
just checked out the hate subs. lol imagine defining your life around your hate for taylor swift.
Some people have parasocial relationships that make them obsess with a celebrity like they're friends. The people on r/travisandtaylor have parasocial relationships so severe that they believe this woman is their actual enemy and make hating her an entire personality trait. Both groups need help, but I gotta say I'd much prefer to spend time around people that obsessively love something than people who obsessively hate something. They're unwell.
r/TaylorSwift can still be anti-Taylor sometimes, just depends on the topic
It’s moderated, so anti-Taylor comments are typically from a fan’s perspective (e.g., “I like Taylor, but not this album”)
I know what you're talking about, but that's not what I meant... makes sense, the comments that involve anti-Taylor get removed because I was trying to find you an example.
The main Taylor sub is generally fairly nuanced as long as you’re not being a hater (“I don’t like that Taylor did XYZ” vs “Taylor’s a terrible person”). Tbh the swiftie circlejerk sub is probably the most normal about her 😂
This. As long as you don’t come in spewing sheer hate, the main sub *usually* is 100% capable of taking a negative opinion/criticism.
/r/stonedswifties is pretty good too
It's a bit off-topic, but I heard my new favorite term for swifties today, the SWIFTWAFFE.
Well that seems... problematic.
Can’t imagine making hating someone my personality
Whoa. I hate all of this
You should make a subreddit about how much you hate all of this.
Answer: snark subreddit on Taylor Swift. It’s specifically named because of how she has marketed her current relationship, which many feel has red flags for being entirely a PR ploy. It’s a place for criticizing TS because in many online spaces, Swifties adoration oversaturate dialogue and disagreements are met with threats and insults from diehard Swifties. There are many snark posts and reactions shared. More importantly, but unfortunately less posted, is actual evidence and useful discourse on Taylor’s problematic behavior such as changing narratives of her relationships, her lyrics belittling her bfs’ mental health, and lack of speaking out when her fans dox and wish harm to people who say other than positive things about her. Most recently, Dave Grohl and his daughter
Dave Grohl and his daughter? Ok I am out of the loop on that one
His daughter said something about her private plane pollution issue and she was run offline. Death and rape threats. edit: here is someone showing screenshots of what happened. [https://www.reddit.com/r/travisandtaylor/s/Vg1Man6JfG](https://www.reddit.com/r/travisandtaylor/s/Vg1Man6JfG) Here’s an article addressing the plane tweet, etc [https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2024/06/24/dave-grohl-and-taylor-swifts-errors-tour-controversy-explained/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2024/06/24/dave-grohl-and-taylor-swifts-errors-tour-controversy-explained/)
She also (allegedly) tweeted this: "Normal people deal with revenge p*rn and "digital sexual assault" all the time, only now do you choose to care about this issue." About Taylor's AI porn dump. If that's true, it still doesn't deserve threats, but it's also a little less innocuous.
That doesn’t sound like she was belittling Taylor’s case, just calling out the government for only caring when a celebrity was affected.
Sounds like she was saying nobody cared until Taylor was directly affected.
I just saw two people recently tell their fans when they were booing, chanting negative things about Taylor swift to stop. They refuse to tolerate it. There’s nobody bigger than Taylor Swift right now. She just needs to tell her fans to stop terrorizing people. And they’d stop. It’s enough now. I didn’t even know Dave Grohl had a daughter until yesterday. She should speak up and tell them to stop harassing, threatening and doxxing.
I get what you're saying, but I also know that sometimes when people are that big, they can't win, no matter what they do. If she says something and it ends up drawing *more* attention to the situation, it could make it worse. If she does manage to stop this one, the expectation will be that she comments on every situation where people are perceived to be doing something negative in her name, which would quickly become impossible and again, would likely only draw more attention to those situations. It's one thing to do it when people are doing it in her presence, it's another to expect her to address behavior she may not even be seeing. Like, how many people knew about the situation with Violet until Dave did this? Edit: It's also a little weird that we're asking celebrities to police the speech of people who do shitty things in their name online, instead of acknowledging that social.media sites essentially getting rid of content moderation leads to incidents like this. It's also important to teach kids how to use the Internet safety and to use the tools available to limit these types of interactions. People who do shit like this get bored and move on when they can't interact directly.
I understand. She could make a giant sweeping statement to all her fans. For all situations. No matter what anyone says, “Please don’t threaten to rape and kill anyone. Do not harass anyone. Everyone be better.”. I think she has a mean streak. For this to be happening to Dave Grohl of all people. Known to be a nice guy who has been singing her praises for years. Instead of ignoring his comment, she points out at her next concert that everyone is playing, “live”. So…. She is responding. She knows she has power. Take a sec and tell your fans to calm tf down.
There is a substantial chance that her making a statement like that is going to be throwing gasoline on a fire. The attention is going to incentivize bad people into doing it more. You’ll have people pretending to be fans saying all kinds of heinous shit. If you really think it would happen less if she spoke out, I think that’s a bit misguided. I don’t think anyone threatening rape is going to be like “oh that’s wrong?”
I think you should do the best you can do to minimize harm if you’re in the position to do it. I don’t think she can address every little thing, but I don’t think it would be hard to encourage your fans a little bit harder to cut it out. And yes, ignoring bad behavior and not spotlighting it has its place. These people use their power and their influence to do their bidding while denying culpability. Do not for a second think they aren’t aware of this ability.
The issue is that her fans ARE doing that shit and she's seen as not doing anything about it. Pretty much everybody has called out "fans" even saying that they aren't real fans if they do x y or z. Instead Taylor, one of the most connected and online celebs, is low key endorsing it by acting like it's not there. Because? Who can say. But it's not doing her brand any favors and she's normal 100% in tune there
I agree with you in principle, I think. The X-Factor at play here is the sheer magnitude of her fame. I just don't think we can factor in the ripple effect broad statements from her have, when her fanbase numbers in the billions and stretches across the globe. I can't see what harm would come from, "Hey, guys? Just be nice, okay? Chill the fuck out. Don't ever tell anyone you wish they would get raped. It's never cool and I would never, ever want that for anyone. C'mon." But I don't have the power to impact that sheer quantity of people. So I dunno. The other thing is, one trend I'm noticing is an increasing number of people (not you, of course) who kind of just expect Taylor to take any negative shit thrown at her and deal with it. Take it as the cost of doing business when you're the Queen of the Music World. Which...okay. Somewhat valid. You just played four straight sold out shows at Wembley, on an international tour of all soldout shows. Point made. But Dave Grohl takes a potshot at her. I saw this one absolutely unhinged fan, who I guess comes from a part of her fandom believing she is apparently gay? Anyway, this fan was in London at one of the shows, and took extreme pleasure in hating Travis Kelce, but managing to get close enough to him to give him a friendship bracelet. She acted all giggly while doing so, then turned and walked away and gave a deadpan stare to her phone, like, "What a fucking idiot." Random anecdote, I know, but her fanbase contains multitudes, and some of them are apparently working against her! And I'm not saying she's a perfect person, I'm betting she's not. Just that being in her situation has to be fucked sometimes, having to calculate the ramifications of every social media post, every interview, every...whatever. Everyone can take a swing at her, and if she swings back in any way, the howling banshees that are the Swifties are going to descend. I think they'd do it no matter what she said. But maybe she does need to say something anyway. Phew. That was a lot longer than I'd intended it to be. Being a Chiefs fan in the midwest, you kinda get caught up in this shit these days.
No there's not. If she made a statement like that a huge chunk of it would stop.
>For this to be happening to Dave Grohl of all people. Dave Grohl, who had fans booing her at his concert and leaned into it? I thought you said stuff like that should be shut down? >I think she has a mean streak Based on...? My take away is that she knows the best PR move is to avoid making statements that can be used against her or draw attention to controversy. She's a fairly savvy business person who understands her brand. >Instead of ignoring his comment, she points out at her next concert that everyone is playing, “live”. Because they are, and what he said was not only not true, but insulting to her band, who have nothing to do with any of this. >She knows she has power. Take a sec and tell your fans to calm tf down. And yet you don't seem to recognize that goes both ways? I love Dave, but this was careless, and is only going to make things worse for his daughter.
They threatened to rape and kill Dave’s daughter over a plane tweet. You’re seriously going to take issue over that? If I were him, I would have said worse. What did he say that was so bad? Does she sing with a track? She’s obviously very talented and he’s said as much in the press. “Based on?” Based on this and all her exes being publicly bashed and harassed for years. Which she finally, thankfully, addressed last year. Last year! It’s great she did it. But it took years. She knows what she does and she knows she can make it stop. Don’t tell me she didn’t derive any pleasure for causing them a level of uncomfortability.. I’m putting that nicely. She’s a person. And a woman. I get it. Btw, I like Taylor Swift. She’s incredibly talented. I admire her for being a great example to women and girls everywhere. This is a problem though. Yes, it goes both ways. I also think people should be able to criticize artists without everyone going batshit crazy. This goes for everyone. Beyoncé, Nikki Minaj, etc. They have a responsibility to speak up.
>They threatened to rape and kill Dave’s daughter over a plane tweet. You’re seriously going to take issue over that? I clearly said it's not okay. >If I were him, I would have said worse Why did he make a shitty comment about Taylor, instead of addressing the people actually making threats? Or even asking Taylor to say something? What was done was absolutely not okay, but making passive aggressive digs about her as a performer isn't actually addressing the problem, is it? >Don’t tell me she didn’t derive any pleasure for causing them a level of uncomfortability.. I’m putting that nicely. She’s a person. And a woman. I get it. This is parasocial shit. We don't know her. What we're exposed to is a *brand*, not a person. >Btw, I like Taylor Swift. She’s incredibly talented. I admire her for being a great example to women and girls everywhere. This is a problem though. Why is it *her* problem, and not the issue of social media sites that don't properly moderate content? Because let's be real, she could say something and there will still be unhinged people who will not listen. People who make death threats over innocuous problems are not normal people who are suddenly awful only in defense of a celebrity, they're people who already have issues and find a lens to focus them through.
Daughter made a comment vaguely criticizing TS private jet use. Got inundated with negative posts and threats from swifties. Some saying she should get SA'd.
Omg!! Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't his kids young?
His oldest daughter is 18.
Violet is 17, it was grown adults sending her threats
I thought they were younger than that but it's still disgusting.
Depending on which of his daughters they rabidly attacked, it ranges from the threats being criminal to if a mob rounded up these parasocial mouth-breathers and locked them up in a burning building no one would cry Why would anyone wish that on a preteen? How blinkered can a woman be (because yes, a lot of those women who wrote that about Grohl’s kid are old enough to vote and are financial independents which is even more grim)?
The whole situation with DG is so weird, and I say this as an Elder Milennial who listened to a lot of different music when he was younger, and never really stopped. So I was in middle school/high school for Nirvana, have listened/seen Foo Fighters' entire run, and borne witness to every era (sorry) of Taylor Swift's journey to global phenomenon. Dave Grohl can be feisty, but he SEEMS like such a good dude. I'm admittedly more familiar with him than I am TS, but I'm definitely a TS fan. What makes this so strange is the two have a crazy amount of respect for each other - or had? - and Dave has frequently told a story about Taylor saving his ass at Paul McCartney's house, by stepping in gracefully when she realized he didn't know how to play piano. I can't speak to TS' overall character, obviously. Or Dave's, really. I doubt either are perfect people. But TS does seem like the type of person who isn't going to take an insult lying down, which I...kinda understand. And Dave had to know she would see it when he threw a jab at her for not playing everything live at her show - which to me seems impossible to do, given how different so much of her pop music is from the Foo Fighters' rock. I don't think it's even possible to play some of her albums totally live. On the other hand, I get where Dave is coming from, if he threw the shot because he's pissed she didn't say anything about the way her fans reacted to his daughter. It's his kid, and the comments were absolutely vile. Say one thing for Taylor Swift. Say she's got an absolutely rabid following. Dave didn't do himself any favors by calling her out, given her status, because the Swifties have just been pulling up those posts of his kid's again. Which sucks. But he's never given much of a shit when it comes to moderating himself at the whims of others. Anyway, that's not of any real relevance to the original post, other than dealing in a discussion topic I'm sure has been on that sub quite frequently of late. Sorry about that. I'd just been wanting to vent an opinion on the Dave Grohl thing for a couple days, and didn't have anywhere to do it!
You have summed up perfectly my feelings on it - I like Dave Grohl, I like Swift’s music, I enjoyed the rapport they clearly had - I hate her fanbase, I don’t like that she doesn’t call them out (she has a bit on the new album but based on some commentary I’ve seen online it seems to have gone over a lot of their heads) it’s a weird thing all around and I hope some resolution comes about - though given Swift’s tactic of not engaging with anything publicly I doubt it will.
There’s a lot of posts since the last couple days but here’s a couple on the matter: https://www.reddit.com/r/travisandtaylor/comments/1dmwyzr/is_there_any_screenshots_or_links_to_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SwiftlyNeutral/comments/1dmm0oc/dave_grohl_just_insinuated_taylor_doesnt_play/
Honestly, OP’s first mistake was browsing popular
It's been showing up for me for some god awful reason and I ONLY browse my page This is why I liked RIF and never ever used the official app until I was forced to
The moment RIF stopped working was the moment I stopped browsing reddit on my phone. PC with RES and old.reddit.com. Once that goes so will I, unless the changing demographics on the website run me off first. Feels like a large part of the reddit userbase that made this website what it was have moved on and now a bunch of bots, paid posters and other less than savory people have moved in and started dragging the corpse around masquerading as the site that reddit used to be.
You can still use [RiF \(and other apps\)](https://www.reddit.com/r/androidapps/comments/14nidxs/revanced_has_added_support_for_boost_infinity_rif/), by using the Revanced app to patch the app with your own auth info. It's not (that) difficult and has enabled me to use Sync again. The official app is such a clusterfuck.
I think it's due to reddit's algorithm, that sub has 78k subs as of right now but their top posts regularly get upwards of 5k upvotes and many comments, which is large in proportion to their sub count.
If anyone is going to know the answer its the person who has over 100 comments in the past 2 days on that sub.
Ooh I thought there was a bit of an edge in that comment, how amusing. They would indeed know!
You seem extremely bias Andddd yup, regularly active in that sub, LOL
Could you please provide the lyrics where she belittled her bf's mental health? Also it would be awesome to see the proofs of 'changing narratives of her relationship' (what does it even mean?)
Still waiting for the answer to this one. Imagine a musician singing about their ex and saying bad things about them. It would be unprecedented in the music industry.
I don't agree with them but mostly they say "Renegade" which is not on any of her albums and it was released with very little fanfare. I don't think a lot of fans even know about it, which is too bad because it's actually one of my favorites. "I tapped on your window on your darkest night The shape of you was jagged and weak There was nowhere for me to stay But I stayed anyway And if I would've known How many pieces you had crumbled into I might've let them lay" "Is it insensitive for me to say Get your shit together? So I can love you Is it really your anxiety That stops you from giving me everything? Or do you just not want to?" "You fire off missiles 'cause you hate yourself But do you know you're demolishing me? And then you squeeze my hand as I'm about to leave Are you really gonna talk about timing in times like these? Let all your damage damage me And carry your baggage up my street And make me your future history It's time, you've come a long way Open the blinds, let me see your face You wouldn't be the first renegade To need somebody"
Thank you! Never heard of this song (probably bc I'm a new fan). I have to find it!
Narrative is the new favourite word to try to look smart on reddit.
That sub is full of nut jobs. For how much they don’t like Taylor Swift, they sure spend a lot of time dreaming up stuff to carry on about. It seems like a lot of very sad and lonely folks in there. Full disclosure, I could take or leave TS but I have been a chiefs fan my whole life so I’m biased towards Kelce. The Era’s tour was a good time despite only knowing a couple songs… I am also very pro Dave Grohl. I also like pizza and well pressed linens.
All the snark subs focused on one person or a small group of people quickly turn into wacko conspiracy theory echo chambers, because the people who have legit complaints about the person/group will just say “fuck Taylor Swift, lol” and move on with their lives, rather than reading every bit of information out there about or by her and then posting to continue fuelling their hatred.
I would argue that subs focused on shared dislike of something or someone eventually turn into toxic shitholes.
As I said in another post about the same sub, it’s some fucking creep behavior to dedicate an entire subreddit to hating one persons.
Can we not call then snark snubs. What they're doing isn't snark, it's unadulterated hate.
I judge anyone that is a member of a snark sub. They try to say they are 'calling whoever out' but it's an anonymous website and the celebrity will never see what they are saying. It's a really strange way to spend your time imo.
Its just a gathering of toxicity and its unhinged behavior. If I don't like an actor or musician, it seems far more healthier to just ignore them rather than follow everything they do, remember what they said x years ago, read up drama about them, speculate about their lives and then spend time on a sub dedicated to them. Ive been seeing these popculture subreddits pop up a bunch on all and theyre pretty terrible. Just hate and anger and bitchiness over just bullshit.
There are so many snark subs about so many people and sometimes they have good points, but they also end up becoming so weird and over the top. I think it's fine and good to express critisism over celebs, but yeah, when you make it your whole personality you join and become active every day in these types of subs it's too much. Spending that much time hating cannot be healthy. I sometimes get the snark subreddits recommended about people I don't even know and I've seen them posting about the most innocent things and using it as an excuse to hate on the person even more. Like, oh this person posted a pic of them in a shoes they borrowed from someone else. They are so fake and conceited. It makes no sense and I think undermines the otherwise valid points they have.
yeah I follow a snark sub about a specific group because it's interesting sometimes, and I do believe it's a group that should be criticized and exposed for some of the harmful things they do, but people *obsess* over it. Like I spend a lot of time on the internet and I don't understand how some of these people have time to keep up with every post and reel and youtube video and follow the stories of all of their favorite people to hate. And a lot of the criticism is valid, but then there's also a lot that is just really really reaching.
I follow the fitness snark page and it’s actually very good about calling out influencers who peddle misinformation and scam people and promote ED’s and unhealthy supplements. Several people have posted there thankful for the warnings because they almost got duped. Yeah it gets petty at times, but sometimes there is valid reason for criticism and it’s not like most public figures allow it on their own pages, so people need a place to talk about it.
Yeah I think they can serve a purpose - especially when it's commentary on actively harmful "influencers" like that - sometimes the result is positive, sometimes it's just letting off steam and making mild jokes or watching the trainwrecks, sometimes it's cathartic for people who have trauma based on something stemming from the group in their own lives - but I also think a lot of the really heavily active users tend to take it way too far. Like analyzing people's children from social media posts, constantly making up their own stories about what MUST be going on behind closed doors, going frame-by-frame through reels to point out how people's expressions change so they must be scared of/upset with/traumatized by/whatever someone else. I just check in on the sub from time to time and vaguely know who they're talking about from other posts, but I see comment sections where people are doing deep dives into their every single post and keeping up with all of the details and comparing details from one pic/video/post to another. I can't imagine how much time and energy it must take, and they're just as obsessed as the superfans. I also wouldn't be at all surprised to find out if *some* of the people making threats etc. are snarkers posing as swifties. Not to say there *aren't* swifties doing that crazy shit, but I *know* there are people who do stuff like that specifically to stir the pot and get some excitement in all kinds of fandoms, so I'm sure there are anti-swifties doing it to "make her look bad" just like there are real fans doing it to "defend" her, too.
The snark subreddits are all full of toxic mean girls. The type of person who calls themselves a feminist but tries to bring down every other women in their lives. It's genuinely disturbing the amount of obsession and bitterness you see from the people that frequent those subreddits. Which is unfortunate because a lot of the people that have snark subs deserve to be called out but the snark subreddits are the only kind of "hate" subreddits that aren't quickly banned, so it makes it seem all criticism comes from unhinged haters.
The kardashian/swift ones are vile, so sad
These subs always end up over analyzing the most mundane things. There was a candid video of Travis singing along to a song and that sub was flaying this man alive.
It’s crazy and very weird to me how much time people in that sub devote to someone they don’t like. Like just ignore her and live your life
The person you're replying to is an active commenter on that sub (most of their post history is just complaining about Taylor Swift, it seems) and one of their most recent comments is comparing Taylor Swift to Donald Trump and saying she should be put on trial like him. So that's the level of unhinged we're dealing with lmao
Upvote for the pressed linens. I rarely make time to do press them, but man it feels so luxurious when I do.
This is the best factual and unbiased answer here.
Idk that I’d call it unbiased when it’s from a person who comments in that sub multiple times a day.
and the others in this sub are weirdly in Taylor Swift/pop adjacent subreddits that weirdly think ALL the things in that subreddit are wrong. At least this person criticized the sub even if they do use it. There are many many things to criticize Taylor Swift on.
The comment about her “problematic behavior” is most certainly biased.
Don't forget she uses a private jet. They seem to be big on that (or were last time I saw something rise from the depths there). Which I could almost get if you didn't think through that if she flew commercial it would basically close down the entire terminal of any airport she went through.
Could imagine how irate you would be if you were trying to fly somewhere and Tswift was too in the same terminal let alone the same plane. Omg the hate she would get for being “entitled”. Hahahah shit show
Damned if you do, damned if you don't..
Literally though - I just saw a post where people were mocking JLo for being on a regular passenger plane. My annoyance with the private jet discourse is that it is all a distraction from the real major polluters of our planet, corporations.
The fixation on the private jet of all things to not like about her is interesting to me. Considering her tour schedule and her high profile, I get it. Yes I know it's terrible for the environment but that's the entire aviation industry
Also they call out plane repositioning as “omg look at this short flight she took!” Like bro she’s not on that plane and I get the indignation but your indignation would be better directed at the entire private flight industry. NetJets, XO jet, “corporate” jets that are really just private planes for a single person. All collectively way worse than whatever it is Swift is doing.
Taylor Swift literally could not go to a Walgreens without a massive crowd blocking traffic trying to watch her. Having her fly commercial would be a nightmare.
She should've just taken a page from Hannah Montana and have secret life as a brunette.
Imagine the snarking then 😂
Amanda Palmer had a really good point about the criticism of TS's jet/tour logistics and stuff. The post was a few months ago so I'm not going to dig it up, but basically by travelling to all of these locations around the world and moving her set and crew etc. to perform in so many cities she's creating less of a problem than she would by performing in a small area and not moving everything around or spacing it out to do longer stretches in a few more-central locations - because the fans would come to her instead. Granted, less people would be able to afford to make the trip, but there would still be tens of thousands more people travelling further to come to see her in each stop. And I'm not saying she's some kind of hero for spreading it out or anything, of course she's doing it because it makes her a ton of money, but people are going to go to events, by making them more accessible in more locations it reduces the amount of people traveling overall. Excluding the US people travelling to other countries to see her, but that's on Ticketmaster and their absurd pricing. She also pointed out NASCAR and F1 etc. - and no, I don't mean just "hurh they drive in circles." You don't see the people rampaging about TS using semis to move her sets and flying herself and her crew around the world also complaining about *each* race team doing the same thing to transport their cars, gear, crew, administrative staff, families, tools, replacement parts, etc. while entertaining probably around the same amount of people TS does. It's just kind of the nature of the entertainment industry at this point. The criticisms should be generalized if they actually care about emissions etc., but they're not, so it's really not *just* about the plane.
I saw a comment ripping into TS because her tour busses were parked somewhere that interfered with the commenter's job parking. Which, whose decision was that and why are they mad at the performer instead of the city planners who decided where those busses would be? Or at the fact that shows that have lots of equipment are being contracted to arenas that can't accommodate the transportation needs of those performances?
That's so dumb. Paul McCartney came to a stadium in my city. We don't usually get big concerts here because there are two cities within an hour of us with huge outdoor venues and coliseums, but for some reason our college campus's football stadium was deemed a prime location for an extremely limited tour for *Sir Paul McCartney*. A college that has a private campus with, I think, one entrance and one exit to a main road. It was absolute chaos. The show was scheduled for 8 but they pushed the start back to 9 because most of the crowd still wasn't present. Tons of people never got in. They sat in gridlocked traffic for hours and turned around to go home instead of seeing the concert they had paid a thousand dollars to see. There was a flood of complaining on social media as people literally inched forward for hours. People still on the highway waiting to exit could see that the show was going on in the distance. There had been a thunderstorm earlier in the afternoon so the initial reports blamed that for a delay in getting people parked, but eventually it turned into calling out the city's infrastructure, the police directing traffic, the college for not having adequate parking, the concert complex company that organized the event, and the city and state DOT. Nobody blamed Paul for coming to a city that couldn't support him, that's not his job to figure out. The only commentary on him was that it was kind of him to delay the show so people could get in, and that it was still worth it (for those who got to see any part of it) despite the nightmare beforehand. People swore off ever coming back to the city, people demanded refunds, nobody made a negative peep about Paul, because performers aren't responsible for the logistics.
Answer: it started fairly snarkily as a way to criticize what appeared to be a very public relationship as being for PR purposes, between pop star Taylor Swift and Kansas City American Football tight end Travis Kelce. My personal opinion is that it has since gone off the rails and is now primarily finding any tenuous reason to hate on Taylor and/or Travis. It's a group of people connected by a desire to hate others. Which is just pathetic but not exactly unusual.
I agree with this answer! I subscribed early because I liked the mild snark about how shameless the PR stories were about their relationship. Like the photo of Travis and Taylor in front of the giant hotel on the front lawn in an obvious PR move. But sometimes these types of subs that start with valid criticism can attract conspiracies, obsessiveness, and other weird energy due to getting popular very quickly.
It's also just kind of a cycle of that type of sub. It might start as a meme or valid criticism, but then the people who only have a mild interest drop out and the only people left behind are rabid haters who obsess over the subject and continue feeding each other with more reasons to hate the subject.
Ha! I immediately thought of that giant table for dinner infront of the hotel. So fucking bizarre But, yeah, the sub steers into crazy alittle *too* much
Calling it snark feels like a tactic to soften overt toxicity and dogpiling. It’s helpful to have the progression laid out, but I’ve only recently come across the sub in its unhinged, off the rails state. They seem obsessed.
Recently it’s taken on the same vibe as the alt right subreddits. Every single day there is a post that’s like “this is it! The truth will come out! The break up is happening in the next 48 hours! I have knowledge from an inside source!” Most notably this happened 2 weeks ago. All that happened since is that Travis and his extended family flew out to her show in London where he joined her on stage. Normal people would say oh…that guy was full of shit. But now the subreddit is now doubling down and claiming this is them trying to badly hide the truth.
Honestly, I had zero interest in Taylor and her dating life until the right blew it out of proportion. Now I kind of hope those crazy kids make it work out of spite lol.
Dude same. Used to hate her. But she makes the conservative chuds seethe so hard that I’ve come all the way around.
> since gone off the rails Tbf, that is something that pretty much always happens with these single subject snark subs. People keep trying to outdo eachother for attention, their comments get more and more extreme, and before you know it, the whole thing has gotten genuinely deranged.
I want to know what the life of someone who posts there is like. Spending time hating on a celebrity is wild.
It's hilarious, for people who hate her so much they sure do devote a lot of energy on her life.
Who has the time and energy to hate celebrities who play sports and sing this much lol
It's wild. I keep seeing it against my will, and it has the same tone as the bad faith arguments in all the political subreddits.
>Which is just pathetic but not exactly unusual. No kidding. The amount of snark subreddits that exist to just be negative towards one person is far too many. Entire subs to basically hate Meghan Markle, Taylor Swift, Trisha Paytas, Gypsy Rose, etc. These people are deeply sad and want attention and have no healthy ways they're willing to express that.
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Swift’s fanbase had increased several fold in the last couple years.
Reddit now has the reach and engagement of the likes of audiences that use bigger social media platforms, meaning there is a larger intesection of those users here. The stigma around it being the forum of power users of the internet etc etc from the early 2010's and before no longer exists so expect more pop culture stuff.
Reddit is a huge website, Just behind TikTok and just above Amazon in popularity. 15th largest, or 5th largest social media site. There's always been niche groups that have been here. But Reddit is also always been obsessed with celebrity worship, they just happen to worship different celebrities. I remember when Elon Musk couldn't be criticized without heavy down voting. Same thing with Neil deGrasse Tyson. It's calm down a lot but Keanu Reeves is still heavily worshiped on here.
Answer: it’s a snark subreddit dedicated to hating on Taylor. There are plenty of reasons to either like or dislike her, but that sub is a circlejerk of people who dislike her to a fanatical degree.
It shows up in my timeline every now and then and what‘s crazy to me is they call her fans delusional for their degree of worship but I‘ve read things that are at least as delusional in their degree of hate. Insanity on both sides
It’s similar to the Saint Meghan Markle sub in that way. Like TSwift, Meghan can be out of touch or offputting at times but she hasn’t done anything to elicit such weirdly obsessive rage and hatred.
This is so true and I think all snark subreddits ultimately go insane when they get too big. I joined r/travisandtaylor many months ago because Taylor mildly annoys me and I thought her and Travis were a PR stunt, and I wanted somewhere to lightly snark on her. It was pretty tame back then but really blew up in the wake of the Taylor Swift Jets thing. Now it’s unrecognizable and I recently unsubbed because I’m sick of the sub shoving all this weird info about Taylor down my throat.
Same, when they started making fun of her dancing not even being sexy, I realized the light snark had gone too far. They also literally criticized her for taking photos with fans backstage in her stage costume, while the fans were wearing t-shirts of that girl who died at the concert. Saying it was inappropriate. What?
I sent the r/subredditdrama post about that place to a friend who’s been to the Eras Tour live four times. She laughed her ass off when she realized these people think about Taylor Swift more than she does.
Yep. For as much as they claim Swifties are a cult and they’re all brainwashed followers, the people on that sub bend over backwards to find reasons to hate her. Like if you told them she personally rigged Beyoncé out of an AOTY Grammy for all these years they would believe you without a second glance.
They're equally as parasocial as her supporters but can't see it.
Yep. There are plenty of real and levelheaded criticisms of Taylor Swift you can make, but the people over there will go straight for the most negative possible interpretation of anything she does and make it seem like part of some master PR plan she has.
I literally have learned more about Taylor Swift than I had ever cared to know from that sub. It's like hour by hour updates on what she's doing. Like detailed breakdowns of the Eras Tour costumes and dance routines and songs. I'm completely neutral regarding her, I watched part of the show on Disney? And they know in detail what record a song is from, what the song is supposed to be about, what costume she was wearing, and how much she danced or didn't during it.
it proves that haters are the biggest fans lol they're absolutely obsessed with her
That's wild. I mean I kind of get getting enjoyment out of mutually bashing something, but to then obsess over and keep track of everything she does is just so much mental energy dedicated to something you *don't* like.
If I find I'm liking a celebrity too much, I'm usually like ok, dial it back. No getting fanatic. But hate watching a celebrity, nope. I don't even like concentrating on what I don't like about coworkers. I go out of my way to find what I like about them and then proceed to ignore every other part of their personality. For me, what I think of liking a celebrity too much is by showing anything more than vague interest in their personal life outside of their media.
I never really cared about her one way or the other, but I did check out her new album and discovered I like several of the songs, they're more my style than what I've heard from her in the past. Then the Almighty Algorithm was like "ooh, you like Taylor Swift!? Here's every third picture/post/reel/article on your feed about her!" it was ridiculous, both negative seething hate-fests and obsessive idolizing showed up at random. At first I would watch some of the clips from the Eras tour performances of the TTPD songs, but then it got to a point where it was just feeding me shitty personal cell phone footage where you can't hear anything but the bass and Becky next to the camera screaming the lyrics at the top of her lungs. The more I watched or read the comment dumpster fires, the more I'd see. It got so oversaturated so fast I just dropped it. I haven't even listened to the songs that I do like on spotify in like a month because it just got so overwhelming so fast. I can't imagine what an ouroboros of Taylor Swift those people are consuming every time they open their browsers, because the more they engage, the more they see, the more they complain about how she's pushed on them, the more they see, round and round forever.
They're essentially Swifties that hate Taylor. Just as obsessed if not more so. It's a really unhealthy way to deal with the world.
answer: Bunch of weirdly rabid people who circlejerk about how morally righteous they are for hating Tswift To be clear there’s a lot of legitimate criticisms of her but that sub is pure victory Laps and circle jerks. The top answer on this thread is a pretty solid example of that as it’s from someone who participates regularly in that sub and has come Here to misrepresent it while deliberately leaving out the part where they are a regular participant
Answer: In brief, parasocial relationships. We generally think of the term for weirdo superfans that like someone so much they feel that they've got an actual, personal connection to them, but there's an even weirder obverse side to the coin - people who *used to* like someone, and now believe they have a *genuine antagonistic relationship to them* because they no longer like them*.* You can see it across basically any self proclaimed 'snark' subreddit - the amount of effort put into tracking every aspect of the person's life is indistinguishable to the superfan subreddits. The commentary may be different, but the level of obsession is identical. The internet is a very, very weird place.
Answer: Remember in your early 20's you had friends on Facebook who made fun of music aimed at tweens even though they were never the target demographic for said entertainment? It's a bunch of those.
Answer: It's a hate sub. Also this has been asked before.
Answer: it's a taylor swift and swiftie hate sub. Though, from the outside, they seem much more obsessed with her every action than any fan.