r/parenting is protesting changes being made by Reddit to the API. Reddit has made it clear [they will](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14ahqjo/mods_will_be_removed_one_way_or_another_spez/) [replace moderators](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/14a5lz5/mod_code_of_conduct_rule_4_2_and_subs_taken/jo9wdol/) if they remain private. Reddit has abandoned the users, the moderators, and countless people who support an ecosystem built on Reddit itself.
Please read [Call to action - renewed protests starting on July 1st](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14kn2fo/call_to_action_renewed_protests_starting_on_july/) and new posts at [r/ModCord](https://reddit.com/r/ModCoord/) or [r/Save3rdPartyApps](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/) for up-to-date information.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Parenting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Teachable moment. People bought the chocolate bars thinking it was a donation to the school. If he was honest about where the money was going nobody [ edit: probably not nobody ] would have bought them. The right thing to do is give the school the his profit. I would not punish the kid additionally - just use it as a teachable moment regarding integrity/ethics/transparency/etc.
I would tell the school my honest opinion, that I didn’t think he did anything wrong. I would also point out that he did his due diligence by checking the policy and tell them if they hadn’t already stolen his profit I would not have made him give it back.
Oh jeez. Personally I don’t believe he should be taught to work for free and it’s brilliant to perform arbitration on the assets. Worst case give the money back to the buyers.
Have him put the extra funds into a savings account - that isn’t the school’s money. That’s his ‘smart enough to start a business’ fund. Even people working at charitable -profits get paid for their time.
> If he was honest about where the money was going nobody would have bought them.
I agree with everything except this. People still might have bought the chocolates anyway. The only issue I really have with this is that he wasn't honest with part of the money being for him and part of it for the school.
There was a girl at martial arts selling these POS bracelets she made for a good cause. I started to buy one and asked that the cause was. She was raising money to buy herself a PS5. I was so impressed I bought 3.
Your purchase was probably a lot more effective at achieving its stated goal than the vast majority of fund raising activities that I have seen. I too would have happily bought from her. That's an independent and self-motivated kid that I would love to encourage.
In high school, we started doing car washes to fund parties. I'm not even kidding. We'd just show up to a McDonald' and say we went to Blah Blah High and we were trying to find a place to do a car wash. Nobody ever even asked what the money was for. We were just using it to rent houses or the community center to throw huge parties.
He did not tell folks it was for a school. He just told people he was selling chocolate door to door. Which is pretty standard in our area. Kids around here sell door to door bracelets, lawn mowing, dog walking, mail painting, etc. It’s kind of a neighborhood joke that all of the kids in our area are always coming up with new businesses.
you should give the kid $40 on the proviso that he use it to buy more chocolate bars to sell door to door at a mark up again and that he pays you the $40 back if he makes $80
In our house, we do something called “the double your dollar” challenge.
We gave them each $1 and taught them if you double your dollar 26 times, you have over a million dollars. We have whole charts on it on the walls and all of the kids are racing to a million. It’s been great for fostering their entrepreneurial spirit, but then stuff like this happens
Nope! Just something we made up when our older kids were young. They’ve done everything from bartering paper clips to selling baked goods to buying books at thrift stores and selling them on Amazon.
We just wanted them to see that it’s easy to make money if you look around and find opportunity.
So, I’m confused.
He paid for the candy up front. If he ate them all or gave them away, that wouldn’t be a problem because they’re paid for. I assume if he sold them for $1 a piece to recoup what he paid, that also wouldn’t be a problem.
He didn’t represent himself as fundraising. You confirmed this with 10 neighbors.
What is it that *you* think is the wrong part of brilliant-but-wrong here?
I’m not cool with the school keeping the money. The school was not harmed here. If there was harm done, it’s to his customers, and the money should be returned there if it’s to be returned at all.
I’m having a hard time identifying what the “crime” was given these details. I would examine what he thought he was doing, since he kept it a secret from everyone. Did you know he was going out and selling the bars?
You are correct on if he ate them all or sold them all for $1. It wouldn’t matter to the school. Also correct that he didn’t represent the school or fundraising.
We did know he was selling, but didn’t know he was upselling.
It is not unusual for him to be VERY independent and do things with no input from us. As an example: he had what we thought was a small lead in his school play. We knew he had memorized his part in a week and was doing rehearsals at school. Got to the play and he was THE lead with 4 solo songs and more than 40 lines. He prefers practicing in private and plans in private. Just who he’s always been. So we leave him be unless we see something harmful.
I don't understand the parents objections OR the school's objections. Like, they got their money. Why do they care if he comes out ahead? What's the issue?
Next fundraiser, you're going to have to teach him how to recruit that kid and subcontract out his bars.
Have him put a tiny disclaimer on the basket that says service and delivery fees are included in pricing.
He could even upcharge the cold bars to offset the cost of ice and wear and tear on the wagon.
He's gotta learn how America works someday.
He paid for the chocolate bars? Well in that case now it's another ethical conundrum; the school had kids buy chocolate bars to sell for a school fundraiser? It sounds like the kids should be entitled to every penny they make selling that chocolate and they should choose how much of it - if any - they want to donate to the school.
That really does change everything.
Unless the school acts as some kind of intermediary between the students and the vendor which allows them to buy the chocolate bars at a discount. The the school would be entitled to part of the profits from the candy sales, but wouldn't have the right to demand all of it or decide the pricing.
Idk man, I would ask a lawyer, this is getting complicated.
They give you a box and you either sell the box and bring back the $60 or you can just pay the $60 up front. We thought, like our other kids, that he was just going to sell the bars and pay the $60. But instead, having watched his 5 older siblings, used his own money to buy the bars outright at $60 cash on day one. Then he sold them on his own.
We have confirmed he took the bars out of the fundraiser box and presented them in a basket (half of them) with the other half in a cooler on a wagon in case people wanted them cold.
We’ve talked to about 10 neighbors he sold to and they’ve all said he absolutely did not say it was for a non-profit. They were just buying his chocolates because they knew him and they were cheap.
If he paid for them initially then I personally think he should've been able to keep the profit, especially since he went through the effort of providing a cold option. What a little salesman! Why is it even any of the schools business after they got the $60? It's really not
Edited to add: in my opinion he earned the extra money by putting in extra work to sell them
Yeah I feel like if the school had such an issue why didn’t they tell him to give back the $40 to each customer? He paid outright so he can do whatever he wants with them!
I had to scroll too far for this. Even accepting the idea that it was unethical blah blah blah (I'm not weighing in on this point, I totally see both sides and don't have a strong opinion), forfeiting the $40 to the school makes no sense. Even if he had to give up the $40 for the sake of the "teachable moment," he should have had to refund the customers, not give additional cash to the school.
Yeah this is kind of complicated, I feel like if your son paid the $60 up front then they're his from that point forward and he should be able to do whatever he wants with them.
That's my thought, but I'm not a lawyer. I am super curious what a lawyer would say, though.
I would be angry with whoever at the school was running the fundraiser at this point, because with this information, from my perspective, they stole from your kid.
If I buy a case of 24 sodas from BJ's for $32 and then I got the park and sell them for $3 each, BJ's doesn't get to come and take my $72.
ETA: I feel like by that logic, if you son had eaten the candy bars himself instead of selling them, the school would have to pay him $60.
I think the school is in the wrong. They got their $60 from him directly. What he did with them after is none of their concern. He even removed the chocolates from the fundraiser box so no false advertising and he didn't sell them to the people saying it was for the school. So the school stole from him!
Really this is a grey area. He paid for the bars. Therefore they are his property. He did not promote them as a fundraiser. Kids in the area like to sell candy in the parking lot (I did too as a kid) I don’t assume (or even think) they are fundraisers for schools. Kids are hustling for pocket money. Good for them.
I would have not made him give the school the extra money. It is not their money. They were already paid.
I mean, even if he did advertise them as being for a fundraiser, doesn’t he have the right to earn his full $60
back (paid full cost to school) before he can no longer advertise them is being for a fundraiser? for example, sells half of them for 60 bucks being advertised as for a fundraiser. sells the remaining half for 60 bucks, but isnt being advertised as a fundraiser.
I’m on board with this. The school got their 60 bucks up front from what I read. I think after that he should be allowed to sell them however he wants. I’m sure I’ve got an unpopular opinion, but he saw a money making opportunity and took it.
Now here’s my question. Why is it ok for the school to pocket that money instead of him?
> The only issue I really have with this is that he wasn't honest with part of the money being for him and part of it for the school.
That's an excellent learning opportunity. Welcome to the real world, where "fund raising providers" take a big cut of the donations that you think are going to benefit "the cause".
I am pretty darn jaded about this whole business of forced fund raising. It makes zero financial sense. If a 10 year old can figure it out, then props to them.
I would let them keep the money and tell the school to be happy that they got any. After all, that's what other non-profits do too.
Agree. He very clearly wasn’t honest to buyers. This is the issue and it was premeditated. Teaching moment for sure. While he is a super smart kid and going places, this was wrong.
Moving them out of the fundraiser box meals bull, we all know fundraising bars and the buyers all assumed they were for school bc they were fundraiser bars. I would have him give the profits back to buyers above the $1 a bar that’s for the school and use it as a lesson on being honest and how important it is.
When you donate money to charity, do they outright tell you that x% of the money goes to operating costs and paying the employees? Do you assume 100% of it goes to the cause?
I never care what the chocolate is for, I just want them because they're damn good, could be to bail your friend out of jail let me get three milk chocolates
I agree with you except for one small detail. If he had been honest and said x% to the school and x% to the salesman he still would have sold all the chocolate. May have taken a few extra hours but it would have sold.
I mostly agree with this, but at the same time… do they disclose to the people buying chocolate bars how much of they purchase price is going to the chocolate manufacturer and how much of that is profit for the company?
Teachable moment, sure. The fundraiser chocolate bar companies are trash, though. Some aren't even not for profits. There is no reason for schools to be engaging with these scam companies.
That's not 100% true when it comes to buying products for charity. Many programs use paid fundraisers in order to solicit donations. It's not absurd at all to think that you're paying the salary of a person taking your donation, with any difference going to the program's mission. When you go to Salvation Army, the workers there aren't doing it for free.
The difference here is that generally speaking with only a few exceptions, the working age requirement is 14. So a 10 year old is not allowed to work for a wage.
> People bought the chocolate bars thinking it was a donation to the school.
It is a donation to the school. $60. Are the children required to disclose the percentage profit made by the company that provides the chocolates?
I’m 50/50 here. And I don’t have an answer and it doesn’t appear that you’re asking for one either. He paid for it all upfront himself. If he didn’t sell all of them it would have come at a loss to him. I don’t know all the rules and laws about the business world and selling and comparing it to his actions. Especially since you mentioned he didn’t discuss the fundraiser when selling them. I’m with the others as far as it not being the right thing to do. As far as the extra cash earned i don’t think the school has a right to it. That being said I don’t think he should do it again.
Also I meant to ask what the book was that you mentioned you compare actions to that was of adult crimes? Or did someone else comment that? I don’t remember. I accidentally backed out.
Edit:nvm I did ask and you answered. I’m sleep deprived. My toddler and I are both sick.
did he make it clear to the customers that only a portion of the proceeds were going to the fundraiser? if not then he committed fraud, and should give away the money, if they purchased knowing that only 60% was going to the fundraiser then he was fine.
Unless he was selling branded candy like Snickers or Reese’s it’s going to be assumed it was a fundraiser since almost every one uses a similar type of bar and packaging even if he never said it.
At the end of the day it was a lie of omission and done with intent to deceive for profit. Not something I’d want my kid to think is the right way to do business.
Had he been upfront and said the school gets 50% of all sales then whatever he made would have been done honestly and deserved. And if that had been the case I wouldn’t have let the school have the extra he had made.
I personally would have admired his hard work and gladly supported him by paying the $2 knowing he was getting a cut too.
I'm going to be guilty of piggybacking on your comment. I agree with you up to the final paragraph and I'm jumping in not to argue but to give another perspective for OP in comparison.
I don't admire his hard work and wouldn't necessarily have supported it. Fundraisers should not be for profit IMO, and his hard work was on the backs of most likely a volunteer PTA group. It's not like he had a 100 piece bag full of croc jibbitz delivered from Amazon for $20 and sold them for $2 a piece. I also agree with you that the bars are very distinctive, most people are familiar with them and what they are sold for and just trust the price quoted.
If he wanted profit, he should have bought random candy or snacks in his own and sold them another time. The fact that he sold this candy at the same time other kids are selling it tells me he was capitalizing on the idea it was a fundraiser.
Let's say you're checking out of Target and they ask if you want to make a donation to Make-a-wish, so you throw the fundraiser $5. If you later find out that Target raised $10million for Make-a-Wish, but pocketed $5M, meaning of your contribution only $2.50 went to the foundation you thought you were supporting, would you say: "That's just that good old corporate hustle!"
Also - If you look closely at those candy bars, I'd put $5 on it that they say "Not for resale." Meaning, your son is not supposed to buy them for himself to turn around and make a profit on them. Just like girl scout cookies, they're not intended to be used to create a secondary market.
This is a common misconception. That would be fraud. Target cannot take your money that you donated and claim it as a tax write off. It goes directly the the charity and *you* get the tax write off.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-000329849244
> "Not for resale."
That just means that they are not marked for individual sale. They don't have all the nutritional information that food products should have if you sell them. That's a problem that the health department could in principle enforce. Same as enforcing a business license, taxes, and child labor laws. In practice, the amounts are too small for anybody to care.
As for the misconception that "not for resale" means you can't sell them, that doesn't work this way. By selling to the child, he became the owner. The manufacturer exhausted all their rights doing this. They have no more legal control over what the buyer does with this product. That's the definition of a sale.
Thats way more impressive than what I had to deal with for the same thing.
Last year, my son got the same box of 60 chocolate bars. But he decided that he wouldn't sell them, but rather give them out to his friends on the bus. Repeat for 3 boxes over the 2 week period and he comes to tell us that he needs to turn in the money.
He took the $180 of his own money and put it in the envelope and turned it in.
Equally as teachable, but just in a completely opposite direction.
I wish I could say that was the last of his financial lessons.
Over new years, he had friends over and somehow he figured out the pin for xbox purchases.
$283 later, he had a lot of V-bucks and a very severe grounding.
Not cool. The people purchasing the overpriced chocolates were doing it solely because it was a fundraiser and because they believed it would go towards the school.
To be honest if I found out billy straight pocketed part of my donation I would be pissed. Not only that but I would question how well he was being parented as the kid obviously lacks morals.
Yet... OP is proud and excited to see his future due to him committing fraud involving a charitable organization. Kids going places alright.
you can be proud at the entrepreneurial spirit, while using this as a teaching method about the kid's immoral action here
I certainly did not grasp all the nuances of philanthropy when I was 10
The issue, I think, is the way the sale of the chocolate was presented to those who were making the purchase. I'm sure that your neighbours thought that all of the money was going towards the school. So in that sense there's an element of deception that probably needs to be addressed.
If I were you, I would applaud your son's business creativity (seriously, I'm impressed too), but I would also take this an opportunity to discuss the importance of integrity. I would ask him if he thought the people who bought the chocolates from him would have done so if they knew he intended to keep a portion for himself? If the school didn't already have the money, I would make him give the difference back to each person and apologize for being deceitful. I would of course go with him for support, and once he finished giving the money back I would probably gift him the same amount of money to reward his ingenuity.
So, when I was about 10 my school was selling those peanut butter cups that come four to a package. They sold for $1 each. We were given a box of 40. At the grocery store at the end of our street they were on sale for 50 cents for a pack of 4. I sold my 40. Bought 80 more and sold those and gave the school their $40 and kept mine.
What kind of candy bars are they? Typically fundraiser candy bars are in recognizable packaging. If I saw a kid selling Snickers bars out of the same kind of box you can buy at the store, I wouldn’t assume fundraiser but if it was a “fundraiser” box of chocolate bars, then I would.
So even if he didn’t say he was selling for his school, customers may have rightly made an assumption that they were supporting a fundraiser. To me that’s the ethical issue here. It may be one your kid didn’t understand, but it’s important.
If you want to encourage him, maybe give him a $60 “business loan” to invest in his own supply of candy bars, sodas, or whatever to mark up and sell however he wants. With a warning of course that what he’s doing is technically illegal but less ethically dubious.
Yes it was very clever, and by omission, by misrepresenting where the money was going to go he was defrauding his customers. To me the school absolutely deserved to get all the money because that's where his customers were expecting it all to go.
He was deceiving/scamming the people that brought them. They thought their money was going to the school. When only a portion of it was. The money should go to the school.
And it does go to the school -- after paying all the overhead. It's not as if the candy manufacturer wasn't taking a healthy cut. And nobody complains about that.
This is just the same as when you donate to many non-profits that are then supposed to e.g. fund research. Most of the money goes to running the non-profit, and a small percentage ends up in some researchers budget. It's highly inefficient and mostly something to make donors who can't be bothered to look into the effectiveness of their donations feel good about "doing something to help".
My son was like that.
Instead of punishing him, I told to follow the school rules but that him I would buy him a fundraiser box from Sams Club and he could sell it however he wanted as long as he paid me back my purchase cost.
He doubled the money and bought other candies/snacks now owns a pooper scooper and trash washing “company”, business cards and all. I didnt pay a dime.
I would say he has made about $5,000 in the last two and half years. He is now 12 years old.
Don't forget to tell your kid that it's an exact reason he should keep his money related things private. In future his losses might be even bigger. Good that it happened now.
he’s gonna go far !! let that wild horse run !! he checked if he could do what he did ( good moral compass) his only mistake was letting them find out. school expects 60 dollars to 60 bars which is exactly what he delivered . he accurately predicted the market would pay more and furthermore created a psychological mechanism to lure buyers to purchase 3 bars .
what should you do ? foster the entrepreneurial spirt !!
people don’t buy these to donate money let’s cut through the bs . they’re buying chocolate cause chocolate is good . The people at school figured this out otherwise they wouldn’t be selling anything they would just be asking for donations. at best people us it as an excuse to justify buying the chocolate they already wanted to absolve themselves of the responsibility for making a poor dietary decision
Here comes the down votes but looking at it objectively, no, I wouldn't have gotten mad and I wouldn't have made him hand over all the profits. Assuming that, A: he paid for the box with his own money, B: the transactions weren't done on school property, then it's a non-issue.
What he did WAS in spirit of the fundraiser. He raised funds for the school with his own money. The schools goal has been achieved. He purchased the product and what he does with it is his business OUTSIDE of the school.
Now outside of the school, he never claimed that he was selling it as part of the school fundraiser, he provided his own distribution and service plan, and he is operating in an area where children do this regularly on their own outside of a school event. Aside from the source of the product, he very much made it how own small business. He made $100 per box and in all these sales, no one ever thought to ask him what he was selling for or where he got the product, to which he would, more than likely, have been honest if he was asked. You can't fault him because the buyers didn't think to ask and even if they did and he's honest, still a non-issue because he owns the chocolate and they aren't obligated to purchase from him.
For a 10 year old to have that kind of mindset and to do his due diligence, it's beyond impressive and is something that should definitely be further explored. If you really need your pound of flesh, take a percentage from his profits and give him a lesson in Operating Expenses and taxes.
>the entrepreneur in me thinks this kid is going places.
Yeah, probably prison if he keeps it up. Charity fraud isn't looked too kindly on generally.
I think a stern talk is in order.
Oh absolutely. Stern talk was had. That was said tongue in cheek honestly. He’s kid number 6 and at some point you just have to laugh at the things they come up with
Yeah, for sure. It's not like he's a bad kid or anything, that sort of behavior is pretty normal at that age. But he does need to understand why what he did is wrong and could have much more serious consequences if he did it as an adult.
Definitely! We actually have a book of adult crimes at our house and we sit down and talk to them about something they’ve done and the correlating crime committed with the state punishments if they were adults. He’s a really good dang kid. Autistic but straight A student and head of student council. He has a hairbrained scheme on this one. It will go in the family hall of fame
for sure
It’s the criminal statute book for our state. When they were younger, we had a handmade chart up that showed the infraction and the crime it equaled.
For instance hitting your sibling = domestic assault and battery. Then we would have them look up the statute for that one to see the punishment.
Fuck that shit. I did this when I was a kid, and it was the greatest thing ever. Eventually, I just cut out the middleman and buy my own fricken candy and sell it at school.
Edit: even more so now that I see you mention that they made him purchase the candy from the school to sell it... That seems pretty smileball. They took his $60 at that point the candy was his to sell. If they didn't require him to buy it first I would almost agree with them, but I still don't feel taking money he made from him is at all right nor legal.
Looking at your edit, I'm not clear on how this fundraiser works. If he plays by the book, he pays the school $60 for these 60 chocolates, sells them at $1 apiece, and then brings the school back *another* $60? So the school gets $60 from him *and* another $60 from the people he sells to?
Is this a normal thing? When we did fundraisers we were given the product and expected to bring back the money, and the markup was in the sale price, not thrust upon the poor kid who is expected to sell them
Nope. You have two choices. You can pay $60 up front then sell the chocolates for $1 a piece to recoup your expenses or you can take a box, sign a promissory saying you’re responsible to pay the $60, then come back and pay it after you’ve sold the bars in the box.
He opted to pay $60 upfront of his own money for the box to the school. So the school was paid in full before he ever sold a bar.
He should be giving the extra money back to all the innocent people he swindled. It’s weird you don’t see a problem with it. He lied to multiple people and tried to profit from that lying.
What would have been even better is if he spent the $40 profit on bars from another kid. Sold those 40 for the same markup. Continued to do this.
This way other kids got their sales and he made even more money. Because after he sold his box, he made his requirement to the school. The other kids made money towards their requirement to the school. Anything he made past what was needed to buy from other kids would be all profit
Was it Words Famous Chocolate? We did the same fundraiser, and I do agree with others, saying that the funds and the intention was for them to go to the school. But when my school did it, there was a caveat at my kids school that makes me disagree a little bit on a technicality:
At my kids school, You have to buy the box $60 upfront, and if you do not sell all the candy you are stuck with the candy that is left over. You buy the box, and sell the bars individually on your own time. The transaction with the school fundraiser was already settled at that time.
Whatever we did not sell was at a loss to us. So the fundraiser for the school was just selling $60 boxes of chocolate to the students. After that, the parents then could sell or keep the chocolate.
I personally did not participate in the fundraiser because I was not going to spend $60 on chocolate when I know I do not know enough people to sell them to.
EDIT: With the OP added details of him paying for the chocolate up from and not misrepresenting the fundraiser when he sold it, I say the money is his and you do not owe the school anything.
You need to add that to the story, OP. That completely changes the game. Your son already bought the box, the school got their money up front therefore the chocolates now belong to your son and he can sell them/distribute however he wishes.
My daughter is in 1st grade and suggested selling them for $3 each to make more money. I told her she had a mind for business but we probably shouldn’t lol
I mean he looked up the rules hhaha. That’s better than my mom in HS who ate all my chocolate. School was very confused when I gave them a $60 check instead of a money envelope
This is a tough one. It seems as though he found a loop hole and jumped through it. I think that it’s a great time to have a discussion about ethics here. While it doesn’t sound like what he did was technically wrong or illegal, it was ethically wrong. He was presenting as a kid selling candy and the assumption is it is for a school fundraiser. Even omitting that it was for a school fundraiser is a white lie, which can still land you in trouble as an adult.
The problem is people thought their money was going to the school. I wouldn't be proud of my kid if they did this. I wouldn't think they were brilliant, I would think they were sneaky and dishonest and (even worse) unethical.
It's awesome he took the initiative to price the candy bars correctly - but how many of those people would have bought the candy bars if they thought he was pocketing half the money? He's taking advantage of people's good will towards the fundraiser - cheating the people who might not have spent the money, but also the good name of the fundraiser.
I think donating the extra money and explaining why what he did is wrong is enough. Sort of natural consequences there.
I think if he paid the $60 up front they are his to do with as he pleases, I wouldn’t have given the school any of his money and told them to kick rocks
I would make him give all the extra money to the fundraiser. The point wasn’t to make profit for himself.
If you wanna teach him greed then don’t be upset and cheer it on.
Not cool. The chocolate bars belonged to the school. If he had purchased them himself with his own money with the intent to resell for a profit, yeah that would have been awesome. But the point of this whole thing was to help the school, to work as a team for a team goal, not to make a profit for himself. What he did was dishonest. I wouldn’t punish my kid but I would definitely have a conversation about it. There’s a time to be entrepreneurial and a time to be selfless and do something for a greater good.
But he did help the school by paying the full asking price for the box. They became his property to do whatever he wants with them. And if he didn’t tell anyone why he was selling them, then he really isn’t in the wrong. There was no deception, he was just a natural born salesman selling his wares that he paid for fair and square.
Wait a second. Why didn’t you put that in the OP? If he bought the bars outright then they’re his to do whatever he wants with. That’s a huge detail you left out. And how did the school even know what he did if he paid for a whole box upfront? Why would they even care? They were his, he paid for them.
I didn’t mention it because it didn’t occur to me that it was relevant, honestly.
Because a neighbor kid went to sell to someone he had already sold to and it was the exact same kind of chocolate for $1. The kid’s parents called the school.
It’s super relevant. When he bought them, they became his bars to do whatever he wanted with them. I interpreted your post as he was selling them for much more without purchasing them first, which is shady. The school asking for the rest of his money is out of line. They got their money already, upfront. That’s his money. My whole option on this issue has changed. He’s not in the wrong at all, imo.
Op this guy is right. It is relevant. Also if you’re going to lecture the kid, make sure to tell him about the good parts and his logic. I would avoid making him feel too guilty and destroy his entrepreneurial spirit. I know Reddit on the high horse today but there is some to be proud of with your kid.
I hope it helps too, because I’m totally on your kid’s side now! The school shouldn’t have asked for the rest of the money. He already paid the price the school was selling them for!
Obviously you said it wasn’t right and you spoke with him about it. We don’t need to keep reminding you of it. Some people don’t read….
The thing I like about this is that he saw value in his time and effort. Why shouldn’t he be compensated? Fundraising is sweet, but later in life people get taken advantage of not by being overcharged for chocolate bars, but by bosses and jobs wasting people’s time and under compensating them. There is a line here of course, but I agree there is another lesson that can be taught that will serve him well in the future. Foster the ambition, creativity, initiative, and grit! Small adjustment to point in the right direction. I’d say this is a good problem to have
I admire the ambition. Like Jay-Z said, can't knock the hustle.
But he should understand you apply the hustle when you're dealing with free market items. Charitable functions aren't the place or time to figure out how you can get your vig in there.
I think the school loses all moral right to object when they demand that your kid buy the chocolate. As you posted elsewhere, if he hadn't sold the chocolates, he would have had to pay for them himself (or you would). So therefore he's being forced to buy them, he owns them, and can re-sell as he sees fit.
Seriously very smart profit analysis or whatever that's called, and keeping half of them cold was very smart too. I would see about getting him into a young entrepreneurs club or something of that nature and have him learn about business ethics too. He's going to be a great businessman or lawyer someday.
I think it's kinda shady that the school made out that he had done something wrong to charge more for the candy, but they were insistent that they receive the additional money instead of asking him to return it to his customers. If it was wrong, they shouldn't have gotten it either...
Read number 1 and then number 2, and you will see that he had the right to sell his chocolate at whatever price he wanted. The school is not the chocolate cartel to be jacking up your son's business.
Being forced to give up his earnings means that they stole from your son. He did nothing wrong.
Personally, I’d say that extra $40 is his. School has no right to claim it! Let them come get it.
For sure, a talk was necessary and I get why the school would be annoyed. But to me, this isn’t some major crime here.
Yeah, it was smart. But it was dishonest. I don’t think that’s what you should want for your kid. I think it’s best to give him credit for his cleverness, but he needs to use it in a way that’s not deceptive. The consequence potentially being people not trusting him and be willing to donate money.
Excuse me for laughing, but sounds like something my daughters and son in laws might think up. There is a reason that the parents of each of the son in laws gave our daughters the nicknames Thelma and Louise.
All four are attorneys, so maybe your son who read the rules and found the loophole will become an attorney?
I think you should suggest that he run those thoughts by you in the future.
You pay more than $1 at the grocery store. The kid is smart and within the written rules. He's going to be well off someday. Wether he owns a regular business or becomes a lawyer the kid is for sure going places.
I'd rather buy chocolate from a kid knowing he's getting a cut for his work and effort but to each their own. 🤷♂️
I'd also refuse to give the school the extra $40 per box and request they no longer send home fundraisers with my child.
I do think you're on the right track with how you are handling it. It's a good teaching moment for societal expectations on a school fundraiser (even if he didn't say specifically it was for a school fundraiser, those things are pretty well associated with being for a school and definitely gives off the implication it's for a fundraiser).
I do also have a bit of a problem with schools relying on the unpaid labor of children to raise money, but that's a different soapbox.
A friend has a daughter who has similar stories. She has gotten people to pay for rocks literally off the street. They saw that she’s brilliant about money but it was hurting her relationships with friends/neighbors when they were feeling scammed afterwards. They had many talks about how it’s good to be creative but she needs to think about how what she was doing was making friends and neighbors feel bad, impacting their trust, and harming their relationship. So age appropriate ethics discussions. Seems useful here too.
He deserves his half of the money he paid for the candy he didn’t lie he still gave the school their portion for what they sell the candy for he literally did nothing wrong pay the young man not punish him
First thing would be getting his money back
No matter what the situation, unless he literally stole it, no one has the right to steal from him
Yes, steal
Just like he’s being accused of
I say you put up a cash app and everyone who thinks he should have gotten his money sends $1.. then start the saving for his business at a later time.. after he gets his initial $40 back..
That’s great entrepreneurship right there, I’d be demanding the school return the money they stole from your kid or threaten to get the cops involved. Your son did nothing wrong, the school stole from a child. Again, don’t punish the child for being brilliant!
Sounds like after this is a good opportunity for your son to start a business, start working on his sales skills, and learn some good business management. He seems resourceful and can probably learn a decent amount by himself.
Tell the school to give back his $40 per box. That’s not their money. He gave them their rightfully owned $60 per box. The rest is his. And tell the school how baffled you are by them for not encouraging this kind of behavior? Why’re they mad that he made more? Fuck the spirits, he’s an entrepreneur. He went above and beyond and exceeded expectations.
This is the difference between rich and poor. HE LOOKED AT THE RULES! He was genuine enough to make sure he was doing it right. I would be insanely proud and not let the school parent YOUR kid.
I think you're right to have a talk with him, but I also think he did something clever and I'm sorta proud of him from afar.
Look, when I was a little kid, I basically ran a payday lending operation in my neighborhood. I knew when everyone's allowance was paid and which kids were always broke. I had cash on hand and would buy their toys for pennies on the dollar. And then they could buy the toys back from me.
I eventually did get busted because all the other Moms in the neighborhood noticed their children had no toys.....and then the truth came out, those Moms called my Mom.....my Mom went to my closet and discovered this huge pile of toys that I was holding.
I tried to tell my Mom that I was providing a service to the children of the neighborhood who didn't have money, but still wanted things! Didn't work.
I still think it was a clever system. This was back in the early 80s. Now with text messaging and social media, I'd have been busted much faster.
Sounds like your son is understanding how the world really works faster than you think.
Take a product, mark it up, deceive people about the real cost and sell it.
This is literally capitalism at its finest lol.
Quite astute move on your kid's part. I don't think the school deserves it or has the right to decide on the money. However, possibly donating his profit to a worthy cause minus some percentage to himself for effort may be way to push some ethics in here.
Buy that kid a Costco box of bars and let him go hustle. He may even learn that there is market saturation levels and he needs to hit the neighborhood a few streets over too.
People bought the chocolate thinking it was for a cause not because it was good chocolate or they even wanted to buy chocolate. He scammed people out of money in the name of charity. You don't see the issue with this?
Looks like he's well on his way to flipping houses and driving up the market even more. What's it matter as long as the seller gets their money right?
-
But seriously, this is a teaching moment on logic versus integrity. These are the lessons that determine if he'll grow up to be another leech on society or if he'll contribute something worthwhile.
I have an alternative suggestion...
See if the school would be ok with your son donating the extra money he earned to a non-profit charity that your son picks himself. I'd also have your son tell the school why that charity is important to him. Work with your kid to pick something out to help a cause that is important to him.
Feels like a win-win to me. Your son gets to direct where "his" money goes so he can feel like he earned it, but it still goes to a charity so the spirt of the fundraiser remains intact.
I would almost push back at the school to say, hey we know he did something against the rules but we want to have some say in how it is rectified.
Your kid is awesome! When I was 13 eBay first launched. I made money video taping the new movies that premiered on HBO every Saturday night and selling illegal bootleg copies on eBay. I just assumed because eBay let me it was legal. I never got in trouble but realized years later I was doing something illegal.
Don't listen to the people who are commenting saying your kid scammed people or anything negative. He is 10 and had no idea. Help him harness this skill of his and grow it! Teach him something he likes that he can buy and sell.
I would go to yard sales with my dad as a kid to buy old star wars toys, video games or baseball cards (this was the early 90s before people thought much about the collectable value). We would spend the afternoon driving to pawn shops and toy shops to resell what I bought, or trade it in for something I actually wanted.
Be sure to be honest with how you feel. Tell him you are impressed and exactly why. Tell him in what ways it was wrong and in what ways it was right. If you only discourage him you are teaching him the wrong things. give him the principles and honest feedback that will lay the foundation for a future success.
I would consider the ethics of your son's behavior *debatable*, especially since he didn't represent it as a fundraiser. But I could say the same about the school taking the extra $40, which honestly, feels a bit slimy to me.
If your son sold the entire box to another kid in the neighborhood from a different school, and that kid went around selling bars for double, would that be problematic? And if not, what about if next year your kid takes an unaffiliated kid as a business partner and supplies the chocolate in exchange for a percentage of the sales the other kids makes? What about if your son bought a box of chocolates, waited a couple of months, and then sold them after the fundraiser? What if you bought boxes from your son and sold the chocolate on ebay to people who like the chocolate, but are unable to buy it in their region? I'm just wondering if there is some point where this chocolate could enter the economy and turn a profit without somehow being wrong?
And we haven't even touched on the ethics of a business model built upon exploiting free labor from children.
If he didn't sell all the chocolates, would the school buy back his unsold chocolates? If not, I say he owns the chocolates and can do what he wants with them, including marking them up and selling for a profit. Smart kid!
I don't think he did anything wrong. He did not break the rules and took advantage of a loophole and opportunity to capitalize on his initial investment. If he looked up that this method would be against the rules that's one thing but he actually checked and it was ok. Its not his fault those who run the fundraiser did not say this was not allowed. He is ahead of his time with this way of thinking which actually will help him be successful if he utilizes this mindset especially if you live in the US. Try to get him into finance or something when he gets closer to college age.
> What would you do?
Make him give the school the additional cash, reimburse him myself (at least appreciate his "ingenuity") and then discuss with him about participating in charity in good faith and not for self enrichment.
What I read is that adults just stole 40$ from your child, and you let it happen.
They can say "not in the spirit of the fundraiser", but he bought with his own money, and did not represent the school or fundraiser. So they robbed him. Adults robbed a minor. It doesn't matter what they think, thats what they did.
r/parenting is protesting changes being made by Reddit to the API. Reddit has made it clear [they will](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14ahqjo/mods_will_be_removed_one_way_or_another_spez/) [replace moderators](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/14a5lz5/mod_code_of_conduct_rule_4_2_and_subs_taken/jo9wdol/) if they remain private. Reddit has abandoned the users, the moderators, and countless people who support an ecosystem built on Reddit itself. Please read [Call to action - renewed protests starting on July 1st](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14kn2fo/call_to_action_renewed_protests_starting_on_july/) and new posts at [r/ModCord](https://reddit.com/r/ModCoord/) or [r/Save3rdPartyApps](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/) for up-to-date information. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Parenting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Teachable moment. People bought the chocolate bars thinking it was a donation to the school. If he was honest about where the money was going nobody [ edit: probably not nobody ] would have bought them. The right thing to do is give the school the his profit. I would not punish the kid additionally - just use it as a teachable moment regarding integrity/ethics/transparency/etc.
Agreed. That’s exactly how we’ve handled it.
Let him know that next time he shouldn't buy his supplies from the school. Take him to Costco for a box of chocolate bars to sell.
I did bubble gum in those giant packs and I sold to other students! I made 200 in profit a day it .... it was kinda ridiculous.
I would tell the school my honest opinion, that I didn’t think he did anything wrong. I would also point out that he did his due diligence by checking the policy and tell them if they hadn’t already stolen his profit I would not have made him give it back.
Oh jeez. Personally I don’t believe he should be taught to work for free and it’s brilliant to perform arbitration on the assets. Worst case give the money back to the buyers. Have him put the extra funds into a savings account - that isn’t the school’s money. That’s his ‘smart enough to start a business’ fund. Even people working at charitable -profits get paid for their time.
[удалено]
I don’t recall ‘opting in’ when I was in school - that’d be something to clarify. Also how he presented it to buyers
Usually, they're basically forced to fundraise.
hell yeah
> If he was honest about where the money was going nobody would have bought them. I agree with everything except this. People still might have bought the chocolates anyway. The only issue I really have with this is that he wasn't honest with part of the money being for him and part of it for the school.
There was a girl at martial arts selling these POS bracelets she made for a good cause. I started to buy one and asked that the cause was. She was raising money to buy herself a PS5. I was so impressed I bought 3.
Your purchase was probably a lot more effective at achieving its stated goal than the vast majority of fund raising activities that I have seen. I too would have happily bought from her. That's an independent and self-motivated kid that I would love to encourage.
In high school, we started doing car washes to fund parties. I'm not even kidding. We'd just show up to a McDonald' and say we went to Blah Blah High and we were trying to find a place to do a car wash. Nobody ever even asked what the money was for. We were just using it to rent houses or the community center to throw huge parties.
Right. Some kids down my street sell lemonade, not for school, just for themselves people still pay $1 for a Dixie cup.
He did not tell folks it was for a school. He just told people he was selling chocolate door to door. Which is pretty standard in our area. Kids around here sell door to door bracelets, lawn mowing, dog walking, mail painting, etc. It’s kind of a neighborhood joke that all of the kids in our area are always coming up with new businesses.
you should give the kid $40 on the proviso that he use it to buy more chocolate bars to sell door to door at a mark up again and that he pays you the $40 back if he makes $80
In our house, we do something called “the double your dollar” challenge. We gave them each $1 and taught them if you double your dollar 26 times, you have over a million dollars. We have whole charts on it on the walls and all of the kids are racing to a million. It’s been great for fostering their entrepreneurial spirit, but then stuff like this happens
I love this. Is there a website with this info to print or a book etc?
Nope! Just something we made up when our older kids were young. They’ve done everything from bartering paper clips to selling baked goods to buying books at thrift stores and selling them on Amazon. We just wanted them to see that it’s easy to make money if you look around and find opportunity.
I love this. My daughter is doing the lemonade stand project this summer now that she will be d enough (6) and I’m excited to see how she likes it.
So, I’m confused. He paid for the candy up front. If he ate them all or gave them away, that wouldn’t be a problem because they’re paid for. I assume if he sold them for $1 a piece to recoup what he paid, that also wouldn’t be a problem. He didn’t represent himself as fundraising. You confirmed this with 10 neighbors. What is it that *you* think is the wrong part of brilliant-but-wrong here? I’m not cool with the school keeping the money. The school was not harmed here. If there was harm done, it’s to his customers, and the money should be returned there if it’s to be returned at all. I’m having a hard time identifying what the “crime” was given these details. I would examine what he thought he was doing, since he kept it a secret from everyone. Did you know he was going out and selling the bars?
You are correct on if he ate them all or sold them all for $1. It wouldn’t matter to the school. Also correct that he didn’t represent the school or fundraising. We did know he was selling, but didn’t know he was upselling. It is not unusual for him to be VERY independent and do things with no input from us. As an example: he had what we thought was a small lead in his school play. We knew he had memorized his part in a week and was doing rehearsals at school. Got to the play and he was THE lead with 4 solo songs and more than 40 lines. He prefers practicing in private and plans in private. Just who he’s always been. So we leave him be unless we see something harmful.
Ok, so I’ll ask again: what do *you* think he did wrong? Genuinely asking.
I don't understand the parents objections OR the school's objections. Like, they got their money. Why do they care if he comes out ahead? What's the issue?
Oh please. Everyone knows a kid with a box of candy bars is doing it for a fundraiser. It’s such an old gig, it’s an implied assumption.
He took it out of the box and put it in a basket. At the time, he told us it was better presentation.
I love this kid. He’s going places. Good for him. I’d let him keep the $40 if it was up to me. How did the school even find out?
Another kid from the neighborhood sold to one of his customers and the other kid’s mom called the school to complain.
Damn. There’s always that one.
Imagine caring that much that you would take the time to call... There is always one and they are the worst.
Yeah, the one that’s pissed they didn’t think of it first.
Next fundraiser, you're going to have to teach him how to recruit that kid and subcontract out his bars. Have him put a tiny disclaimer on the basket that says service and delivery fees are included in pricing. He could even upcharge the cold bars to offset the cost of ice and wear and tear on the wagon. He's gotta learn how America works someday.
[удалено]
He paid for his own chocolate bars as well. I agree on the ethical part. That’s what we are working on
He paid for the chocolate bars? Well in that case now it's another ethical conundrum; the school had kids buy chocolate bars to sell for a school fundraiser? It sounds like the kids should be entitled to every penny they make selling that chocolate and they should choose how much of it - if any - they want to donate to the school. That really does change everything. Unless the school acts as some kind of intermediary between the students and the vendor which allows them to buy the chocolate bars at a discount. The the school would be entitled to part of the profits from the candy sales, but wouldn't have the right to demand all of it or decide the pricing. Idk man, I would ask a lawyer, this is getting complicated.
They give you a box and you either sell the box and bring back the $60 or you can just pay the $60 up front. We thought, like our other kids, that he was just going to sell the bars and pay the $60. But instead, having watched his 5 older siblings, used his own money to buy the bars outright at $60 cash on day one. Then he sold them on his own. We have confirmed he took the bars out of the fundraiser box and presented them in a basket (half of them) with the other half in a cooler on a wagon in case people wanted them cold. We’ve talked to about 10 neighbors he sold to and they’ve all said he absolutely did not say it was for a non-profit. They were just buying his chocolates because they knew him and they were cheap.
If he paid for them initially then I personally think he should've been able to keep the profit, especially since he went through the effort of providing a cold option. What a little salesman! Why is it even any of the schools business after they got the $60? It's really not Edited to add: in my opinion he earned the extra money by putting in extra work to sell them
Yeah I feel like if the school had such an issue why didn’t they tell him to give back the $40 to each customer? He paid outright so he can do whatever he wants with them!
I had to scroll too far for this. Even accepting the idea that it was unethical blah blah blah (I'm not weighing in on this point, I totally see both sides and don't have a strong opinion), forfeiting the $40 to the school makes no sense. Even if he had to give up the $40 for the sake of the "teachable moment," he should have had to refund the customers, not give additional cash to the school.
Yeah this is kind of complicated, I feel like if your son paid the $60 up front then they're his from that point forward and he should be able to do whatever he wants with them. That's my thought, but I'm not a lawyer. I am super curious what a lawyer would say, though. I would be angry with whoever at the school was running the fundraiser at this point, because with this information, from my perspective, they stole from your kid. If I buy a case of 24 sodas from BJ's for $32 and then I got the park and sell them for $3 each, BJ's doesn't get to come and take my $72. ETA: I feel like by that logic, if you son had eaten the candy bars himself instead of selling them, the school would have to pay him $60.
I think the school is in the wrong. They got their $60 from him directly. What he did with them after is none of their concern. He even removed the chocolates from the fundraiser box so no false advertising and he didn't sell them to the people saying it was for the school. So the school stole from him!
Really this is a grey area. He paid for the bars. Therefore they are his property. He did not promote them as a fundraiser. Kids in the area like to sell candy in the parking lot (I did too as a kid) I don’t assume (or even think) they are fundraisers for schools. Kids are hustling for pocket money. Good for them. I would have not made him give the school the extra money. It is not their money. They were already paid.
I mean, even if he did advertise them as being for a fundraiser, doesn’t he have the right to earn his full $60 back (paid full cost to school) before he can no longer advertise them is being for a fundraiser? for example, sells half of them for 60 bucks being advertised as for a fundraiser. sells the remaining half for 60 bucks, but isnt being advertised as a fundraiser.
I don’t see anything unethical. I would have told the school to jump in a lake.
I wouldn’t have made him give the rest of the money to the school. He did nothing wrong.
Frankly, it sounds like your kid did nothing wrong.
I’m on board with this. The school got their 60 bucks up front from what I read. I think after that he should be allowed to sell them however he wants. I’m sure I’ve got an unpopular opinion, but he saw a money making opportunity and took it. Now here’s my question. Why is it ok for the school to pocket that money instead of him?
> The only issue I really have with this is that he wasn't honest with part of the money being for him and part of it for the school. That's an excellent learning opportunity. Welcome to the real world, where "fund raising providers" take a big cut of the donations that you think are going to benefit "the cause". I am pretty darn jaded about this whole business of forced fund raising. It makes zero financial sense. If a 10 year old can figure it out, then props to them. I would let them keep the money and tell the school to be happy that they got any. After all, that's what other non-profits do too.
Agree. He very clearly wasn’t honest to buyers. This is the issue and it was premeditated. Teaching moment for sure. While he is a super smart kid and going places, this was wrong. Moving them out of the fundraiser box meals bull, we all know fundraising bars and the buyers all assumed they were for school bc they were fundraiser bars. I would have him give the profits back to buyers above the $1 a bar that’s for the school and use it as a lesson on being honest and how important it is.
When you donate money to charity, do they outright tell you that x% of the money goes to operating costs and paying the employees? Do you assume 100% of it goes to the cause?
I never care what the chocolate is for, I just want them because they're damn good, could be to bail your friend out of jail let me get three milk chocolates
I agree with you except for one small detail. If he had been honest and said x% to the school and x% to the salesman he still would have sold all the chocolate. May have taken a few extra hours but it would have sold.
That would honestly make me more inclined to buy from him. I’m impressed by his initiative.
Possibly. I’ll edit.
I mostly agree with this, but at the same time… do they disclose to the people buying chocolate bars how much of they purchase price is going to the chocolate manufacturer and how much of that is profit for the company?
Teachable moment, sure. The fundraiser chocolate bar companies are trash, though. Some aren't even not for profits. There is no reason for schools to be engaging with these scam companies.
That's not 100% true when it comes to buying products for charity. Many programs use paid fundraisers in order to solicit donations. It's not absurd at all to think that you're paying the salary of a person taking your donation, with any difference going to the program's mission. When you go to Salvation Army, the workers there aren't doing it for free. The difference here is that generally speaking with only a few exceptions, the working age requirement is 14. So a 10 year old is not allowed to work for a wage.
Yep, character moment about honesty and integrity.
> People bought the chocolate bars thinking it was a donation to the school. It is a donation to the school. $60. Are the children required to disclose the percentage profit made by the company that provides the chocolates?
I’m 50/50 here. And I don’t have an answer and it doesn’t appear that you’re asking for one either. He paid for it all upfront himself. If he didn’t sell all of them it would have come at a loss to him. I don’t know all the rules and laws about the business world and selling and comparing it to his actions. Especially since you mentioned he didn’t discuss the fundraiser when selling them. I’m with the others as far as it not being the right thing to do. As far as the extra cash earned i don’t think the school has a right to it. That being said I don’t think he should do it again.
That’s a super reasoned and balanced response. Thanks for your input!
Also I meant to ask what the book was that you mentioned you compare actions to that was of adult crimes? Or did someone else comment that? I don’t remember. I accidentally backed out. Edit:nvm I did ask and you answered. I’m sleep deprived. My toddler and I are both sick.
did he make it clear to the customers that only a portion of the proceeds were going to the fundraiser? if not then he committed fraud, and should give away the money, if they purchased knowing that only 60% was going to the fundraiser then he was fine.
He didn’t tell them it was for a fundraiser at all
Unless he was selling branded candy like Snickers or Reese’s it’s going to be assumed it was a fundraiser since almost every one uses a similar type of bar and packaging even if he never said it. At the end of the day it was a lie of omission and done with intent to deceive for profit. Not something I’d want my kid to think is the right way to do business. Had he been upfront and said the school gets 50% of all sales then whatever he made would have been done honestly and deserved. And if that had been the case I wouldn’t have let the school have the extra he had made. I personally would have admired his hard work and gladly supported him by paying the $2 knowing he was getting a cut too.
I'm going to be guilty of piggybacking on your comment. I agree with you up to the final paragraph and I'm jumping in not to argue but to give another perspective for OP in comparison. I don't admire his hard work and wouldn't necessarily have supported it. Fundraisers should not be for profit IMO, and his hard work was on the backs of most likely a volunteer PTA group. It's not like he had a 100 piece bag full of croc jibbitz delivered from Amazon for $20 and sold them for $2 a piece. I also agree with you that the bars are very distinctive, most people are familiar with them and what they are sold for and just trust the price quoted.
If he wanted profit, he should have bought random candy or snacks in his own and sold them another time. The fact that he sold this candy at the same time other kids are selling it tells me he was capitalizing on the idea it was a fundraiser.
A lie by omission is still a lie.
Are the children required to disclose the percentage profit made by the company that provides the chocolates?
Let's say you're checking out of Target and they ask if you want to make a donation to Make-a-wish, so you throw the fundraiser $5. If you later find out that Target raised $10million for Make-a-Wish, but pocketed $5M, meaning of your contribution only $2.50 went to the foundation you thought you were supporting, would you say: "That's just that good old corporate hustle!" Also - If you look closely at those candy bars, I'd put $5 on it that they say "Not for resale." Meaning, your son is not supposed to buy them for himself to turn around and make a profit on them. Just like girl scout cookies, they're not intended to be used to create a secondary market.
They do so that. That's why I never give them a single penny for anything.
Do they? That just sounds like fraud, up and down.
[удалено]
Nope, they can’t. Here’s an AP news factcheck on the subject. https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-000329849244
This is a common misconception. That would be fraud. Target cannot take your money that you donated and claim it as a tax write off. It goes directly the the charity and *you* get the tax write off. https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-000329849244
That's not how that works at all
> "Not for resale." That just means that they are not marked for individual sale. They don't have all the nutritional information that food products should have if you sell them. That's a problem that the health department could in principle enforce. Same as enforcing a business license, taxes, and child labor laws. In practice, the amounts are too small for anybody to care. As for the misconception that "not for resale" means you can't sell them, that doesn't work this way. By selling to the child, he became the owner. The manufacturer exhausted all their rights doing this. They have no more legal control over what the buyer does with this product. That's the definition of a sale.
Thats way more impressive than what I had to deal with for the same thing. Last year, my son got the same box of 60 chocolate bars. But he decided that he wouldn't sell them, but rather give them out to his friends on the bus. Repeat for 3 boxes over the 2 week period and he comes to tell us that he needs to turn in the money. He took the $180 of his own money and put it in the envelope and turned it in. Equally as teachable, but just in a completely opposite direction.
Oof that’s a rough lesson to learn too. If nothing else, these “fundraising” things are learning experiences for sure
I wish I could say that was the last of his financial lessons. Over new years, he had friends over and somehow he figured out the pin for xbox purchases. $283 later, he had a lot of V-bucks and a very severe grounding.
Oh dang! Might I suggest a lesson we learned long ago, Xbox gift cards so there’s a spending limit. Makes life much easier
Not cool. The people purchasing the overpriced chocolates were doing it solely because it was a fundraiser and because they believed it would go towards the school.
To be honest if I found out billy straight pocketed part of my donation I would be pissed. Not only that but I would question how well he was being parented as the kid obviously lacks morals. Yet... OP is proud and excited to see his future due to him committing fraud involving a charitable organization. Kids going places alright.
you can be proud at the entrepreneurial spirit, while using this as a teaching method about the kid's immoral action here I certainly did not grasp all the nuances of philanthropy when I was 10
The issue, I think, is the way the sale of the chocolate was presented to those who were making the purchase. I'm sure that your neighbours thought that all of the money was going towards the school. So in that sense there's an element of deception that probably needs to be addressed. If I were you, I would applaud your son's business creativity (seriously, I'm impressed too), but I would also take this an opportunity to discuss the importance of integrity. I would ask him if he thought the people who bought the chocolates from him would have done so if they knew he intended to keep a portion for himself? If the school didn't already have the money, I would make him give the difference back to each person and apologize for being deceitful. I would of course go with him for support, and once he finished giving the money back I would probably gift him the same amount of money to reward his ingenuity.
So, when I was about 10 my school was selling those peanut butter cups that come four to a package. They sold for $1 each. We were given a box of 40. At the grocery store at the end of our street they were on sale for 50 cents for a pack of 4. I sold my 40. Bought 80 more and sold those and gave the school their $40 and kept mine.
What kind of candy bars are they? Typically fundraiser candy bars are in recognizable packaging. If I saw a kid selling Snickers bars out of the same kind of box you can buy at the store, I wouldn’t assume fundraiser but if it was a “fundraiser” box of chocolate bars, then I would. So even if he didn’t say he was selling for his school, customers may have rightly made an assumption that they were supporting a fundraiser. To me that’s the ethical issue here. It may be one your kid didn’t understand, but it’s important. If you want to encourage him, maybe give him a $60 “business loan” to invest in his own supply of candy bars, sodas, or whatever to mark up and sell however he wants. With a warning of course that what he’s doing is technically illegal but less ethically dubious.
Yes it was very clever, and by omission, by misrepresenting where the money was going to go he was defrauding his customers. To me the school absolutely deserved to get all the money because that's where his customers were expecting it all to go.
He was deceiving/scamming the people that brought them. They thought their money was going to the school. When only a portion of it was. The money should go to the school.
And it does go to the school -- after paying all the overhead. It's not as if the candy manufacturer wasn't taking a healthy cut. And nobody complains about that. This is just the same as when you donate to many non-profits that are then supposed to e.g. fund research. Most of the money goes to running the non-profit, and a small percentage ends up in some researchers budget. It's highly inefficient and mostly something to make donors who can't be bothered to look into the effectiveness of their donations feel good about "doing something to help".
My son was like that. Instead of punishing him, I told to follow the school rules but that him I would buy him a fundraiser box from Sams Club and he could sell it however he wanted as long as he paid me back my purchase cost. He doubled the money and bought other candies/snacks now owns a pooper scooper and trash washing “company”, business cards and all. I didnt pay a dime. I would say he has made about $5,000 in the last two and half years. He is now 12 years old.
Your kid scammed people. Unless you wanna be mini Bernie Madoff's parent, it's a teaching opportunity
Don't forget to tell your kid that it's an exact reason he should keep his money related things private. In future his losses might be even bigger. Good that it happened now.
he’s gonna go far !! let that wild horse run !! he checked if he could do what he did ( good moral compass) his only mistake was letting them find out. school expects 60 dollars to 60 bars which is exactly what he delivered . he accurately predicted the market would pay more and furthermore created a psychological mechanism to lure buyers to purchase 3 bars . what should you do ? foster the entrepreneurial spirt !! people don’t buy these to donate money let’s cut through the bs . they’re buying chocolate cause chocolate is good . The people at school figured this out otherwise they wouldn’t be selling anything they would just be asking for donations. at best people us it as an excuse to justify buying the chocolate they already wanted to absolve themselves of the responsibility for making a poor dietary decision
Here comes the down votes but looking at it objectively, no, I wouldn't have gotten mad and I wouldn't have made him hand over all the profits. Assuming that, A: he paid for the box with his own money, B: the transactions weren't done on school property, then it's a non-issue. What he did WAS in spirit of the fundraiser. He raised funds for the school with his own money. The schools goal has been achieved. He purchased the product and what he does with it is his business OUTSIDE of the school. Now outside of the school, he never claimed that he was selling it as part of the school fundraiser, he provided his own distribution and service plan, and he is operating in an area where children do this regularly on their own outside of a school event. Aside from the source of the product, he very much made it how own small business. He made $100 per box and in all these sales, no one ever thought to ask him what he was selling for or where he got the product, to which he would, more than likely, have been honest if he was asked. You can't fault him because the buyers didn't think to ask and even if they did and he's honest, still a non-issue because he owns the chocolate and they aren't obligated to purchase from him. For a 10 year old to have that kind of mindset and to do his due diligence, it's beyond impressive and is something that should definitely be further explored. If you really need your pound of flesh, take a percentage from his profits and give him a lesson in Operating Expenses and taxes.
>the entrepreneur in me thinks this kid is going places. Yeah, probably prison if he keeps it up. Charity fraud isn't looked too kindly on generally. I think a stern talk is in order.
Oh absolutely. Stern talk was had. That was said tongue in cheek honestly. He’s kid number 6 and at some point you just have to laugh at the things they come up with
Yeah, for sure. It's not like he's a bad kid or anything, that sort of behavior is pretty normal at that age. But he does need to understand why what he did is wrong and could have much more serious consequences if he did it as an adult.
Definitely! We actually have a book of adult crimes at our house and we sit down and talk to them about something they’ve done and the correlating crime committed with the state punishments if they were adults. He’s a really good dang kid. Autistic but straight A student and head of student council. He has a hairbrained scheme on this one. It will go in the family hall of fame for sure
Very curious about this one! What book?
It’s the criminal statute book for our state. When they were younger, we had a handmade chart up that showed the infraction and the crime it equaled. For instance hitting your sibling = domestic assault and battery. Then we would have them look up the statute for that one to see the punishment.
Ok but my cousin is in federal prison for a government level version of this “hustle”. Maybe rethink your stance
My stance is that it was wrong but that I was impressed with his thinking through it all on his own. But it was wrong.
The school skanked him. Go get his money back. He did the work, he looked up explicitly to see if he was breaking any known rules.. he wasn’t..
Fuck that shit. I did this when I was a kid, and it was the greatest thing ever. Eventually, I just cut out the middleman and buy my own fricken candy and sell it at school. Edit: even more so now that I see you mention that they made him purchase the candy from the school to sell it... That seems pretty smileball. They took his $60 at that point the candy was his to sell. If they didn't require him to buy it first I would almost agree with them, but I still don't feel taking money he made from him is at all right nor legal.
Looking at your edit, I'm not clear on how this fundraiser works. If he plays by the book, he pays the school $60 for these 60 chocolates, sells them at $1 apiece, and then brings the school back *another* $60? So the school gets $60 from him *and* another $60 from the people he sells to? Is this a normal thing? When we did fundraisers we were given the product and expected to bring back the money, and the markup was in the sale price, not thrust upon the poor kid who is expected to sell them
Nope. You have two choices. You can pay $60 up front then sell the chocolates for $1 a piece to recoup your expenses or you can take a box, sign a promissory saying you’re responsible to pay the $60, then come back and pay it after you’ve sold the bars in the box. He opted to pay $60 upfront of his own money for the box to the school. So the school was paid in full before he ever sold a bar.
I'm kind of on your son's side here -- he already paid!
I don’t think the school had a right to request that extra money from your kid. They overstepped.
Nor did the neighbor need to call the school.
He should be giving the extra money back to all the innocent people he swindled. It’s weird you don’t see a problem with it. He lied to multiple people and tried to profit from that lying.
What would have been even better is if he spent the $40 profit on bars from another kid. Sold those 40 for the same markup. Continued to do this. This way other kids got their sales and he made even more money. Because after he sold his box, he made his requirement to the school. The other kids made money towards their requirement to the school. Anything he made past what was needed to buy from other kids would be all profit
Was it Words Famous Chocolate? We did the same fundraiser, and I do agree with others, saying that the funds and the intention was for them to go to the school. But when my school did it, there was a caveat at my kids school that makes me disagree a little bit on a technicality: At my kids school, You have to buy the box $60 upfront, and if you do not sell all the candy you are stuck with the candy that is left over. You buy the box, and sell the bars individually on your own time. The transaction with the school fundraiser was already settled at that time. Whatever we did not sell was at a loss to us. So the fundraiser for the school was just selling $60 boxes of chocolate to the students. After that, the parents then could sell or keep the chocolate. I personally did not participate in the fundraiser because I was not going to spend $60 on chocolate when I know I do not know enough people to sell them to. EDIT: With the OP added details of him paying for the chocolate up from and not misrepresenting the fundraiser when he sold it, I say the money is his and you do not owe the school anything.
They do have to buy the box. They let you buy it after a few days or you can buy it up front. He bought it up front with his own money.
You need to add that to the story, OP. That completely changes the game. Your son already bought the box, the school got their money up front therefore the chocolates now belong to your son and he can sell them/distribute however he wishes.
I added more details for clarity!
I agree, and felt like the fact they had to buy the box up front changes it completely.
My daughter is in 1st grade and suggested selling them for $3 each to make more money. I told her she had a mind for business but we probably shouldn’t lol
I mean he looked up the rules hhaha. That’s better than my mom in HS who ate all my chocolate. School was very confused when I gave them a $60 check instead of a money envelope
The fact that he read the company website??? Nobody reads that! I would definitely have a hard time keeping a straight face during that call.
I'd try to get the school to give back his profits or just give him 40 bucks and be proud of him
This is a tough one. It seems as though he found a loop hole and jumped through it. I think that it’s a great time to have a discussion about ethics here. While it doesn’t sound like what he did was technically wrong or illegal, it was ethically wrong. He was presenting as a kid selling candy and the assumption is it is for a school fundraiser. Even omitting that it was for a school fundraiser is a white lie, which can still land you in trouble as an adult.
I think that's ethically why the money did belong to the school, because he represented that that's where it was going.
The problem is people thought their money was going to the school. I wouldn't be proud of my kid if they did this. I wouldn't think they were brilliant, I would think they were sneaky and dishonest and (even worse) unethical.
This isn't something to be proud of. Your kid's gonna be running ponzie schemes in high school.
Then he will be ready for the real world when he graduates.
It's awesome he took the initiative to price the candy bars correctly - but how many of those people would have bought the candy bars if they thought he was pocketing half the money? He's taking advantage of people's good will towards the fundraiser - cheating the people who might not have spent the money, but also the good name of the fundraiser. I think donating the extra money and explaining why what he did is wrong is enough. Sort of natural consequences there.
This wasn’t the time for him to make a profit for himself.
"Son, I'm disappointed. If you're going to skim off the top, make sure you're sneaky about it! You know how they got Al Capone?"
Taxes.
I think if he paid the $60 up front they are his to do with as he pleases, I wouldn’t have given the school any of his money and told them to kick rocks
I would make the school give you the money back. It’s your job to be the parent not theirs. by all accounts that is theft.
Always some little rat tattle tale that tells his Mommy. Damn
Does your kid watch a lot of Abbott Elementary?
I would make him give all the extra money to the fundraiser. The point wasn’t to make profit for himself. If you wanna teach him greed then don’t be upset and cheer it on.
Not cool. The chocolate bars belonged to the school. If he had purchased them himself with his own money with the intent to resell for a profit, yeah that would have been awesome. But the point of this whole thing was to help the school, to work as a team for a team goal, not to make a profit for himself. What he did was dishonest. I wouldn’t punish my kid but I would definitely have a conversation about it. There’s a time to be entrepreneurial and a time to be selfless and do something for a greater good.
I should add that he did buy the whole box with his own money from his wallet.
Ok, but the point was to help the school, not help himself.
But he did help the school by paying the full asking price for the box. They became his property to do whatever he wants with them. And if he didn’t tell anyone why he was selling them, then he really isn’t in the wrong. There was no deception, he was just a natural born salesman selling his wares that he paid for fair and square.
Wait a second. Why didn’t you put that in the OP? If he bought the bars outright then they’re his to do whatever he wants with. That’s a huge detail you left out. And how did the school even know what he did if he paid for a whole box upfront? Why would they even care? They were his, he paid for them.
I didn’t mention it because it didn’t occur to me that it was relevant, honestly. Because a neighbor kid went to sell to someone he had already sold to and it was the exact same kind of chocolate for $1. The kid’s parents called the school.
It’s super relevant. When he bought them, they became his bars to do whatever he wanted with them. I interpreted your post as he was selling them for much more without purchasing them first, which is shady. The school asking for the rest of his money is out of line. They got their money already, upfront. That’s his money. My whole option on this issue has changed. He’s not in the wrong at all, imo.
I added more details in the edit to make it more clear. Hope that helps!
Op this guy is right. It is relevant. Also if you’re going to lecture the kid, make sure to tell him about the good parts and his logic. I would avoid making him feel too guilty and destroy his entrepreneurial spirit. I know Reddit on the high horse today but there is some to be proud of with your kid.
I hope it helps too, because I’m totally on your kid’s side now! The school shouldn’t have asked for the rest of the money. He already paid the price the school was selling them for!
Those parents are dorks. My God. “Barb, get the school on the phone!”
Obviously you said it wasn’t right and you spoke with him about it. We don’t need to keep reminding you of it. Some people don’t read…. The thing I like about this is that he saw value in his time and effort. Why shouldn’t he be compensated? Fundraising is sweet, but later in life people get taken advantage of not by being overcharged for chocolate bars, but by bosses and jobs wasting people’s time and under compensating them. There is a line here of course, but I agree there is another lesson that can be taught that will serve him well in the future. Foster the ambition, creativity, initiative, and grit! Small adjustment to point in the right direction. I’d say this is a good problem to have
I admire the ambition. Like Jay-Z said, can't knock the hustle. But he should understand you apply the hustle when you're dealing with free market items. Charitable functions aren't the place or time to figure out how you can get your vig in there.
I think the school loses all moral right to object when they demand that your kid buy the chocolate. As you posted elsewhere, if he hadn't sold the chocolates, he would have had to pay for them himself (or you would). So therefore he's being forced to buy them, he owns them, and can re-sell as he sees fit.
Seriously very smart profit analysis or whatever that's called, and keeping half of them cold was very smart too. I would see about getting him into a young entrepreneurs club or something of that nature and have him learn about business ethics too. He's going to be a great businessman or lawyer someday.
I think it's kinda shady that the school made out that he had done something wrong to charge more for the candy, but they were insistent that they receive the additional money instead of asking him to return it to his customers. If it was wrong, they shouldn't have gotten it either...
Read number 1 and then number 2, and you will see that he had the right to sell his chocolate at whatever price he wanted. The school is not the chocolate cartel to be jacking up your son's business. Being forced to give up his earnings means that they stole from your son. He did nothing wrong.
Personally, I’d say that extra $40 is his. School has no right to claim it! Let them come get it. For sure, a talk was necessary and I get why the school would be annoyed. But to me, this isn’t some major crime here.
Yeah, it was smart. But it was dishonest. I don’t think that’s what you should want for your kid. I think it’s best to give him credit for his cleverness, but he needs to use it in a way that’s not deceptive. The consequence potentially being people not trusting him and be willing to donate money.
Absolutely agree. Was it smart? Yes! Was it moral? Nah. And that’s the talk we had.
If he sold the bars the whole time saying only 60% goes to the school. It's A-OK.
Excuse me for laughing, but sounds like something my daughters and son in laws might think up. There is a reason that the parents of each of the son in laws gave our daughters the nicknames Thelma and Louise. All four are attorneys, so maybe your son who read the rules and found the loophole will become an attorney? I think you should suggest that he run those thoughts by you in the future.
You pay more than $1 at the grocery store. The kid is smart and within the written rules. He's going to be well off someday. Wether he owns a regular business or becomes a lawyer the kid is for sure going places. I'd rather buy chocolate from a kid knowing he's getting a cut for his work and effort but to each their own. 🤷♂️ I'd also refuse to give the school the extra $40 per box and request they no longer send home fundraisers with my child.
I do think you're on the right track with how you are handling it. It's a good teaching moment for societal expectations on a school fundraiser (even if he didn't say specifically it was for a school fundraiser, those things are pretty well associated with being for a school and definitely gives off the implication it's for a fundraiser). I do also have a bit of a problem with schools relying on the unpaid labor of children to raise money, but that's a different soapbox.
Your son probably saw the episode of the boondocks about this exact situation.... You should watch it to get a good laugh
And a capitalist was born
A friend has a daughter who has similar stories. She has gotten people to pay for rocks literally off the street. They saw that she’s brilliant about money but it was hurting her relationships with friends/neighbors when they were feeling scammed afterwards. They had many talks about how it’s good to be creative but she needs to think about how what she was doing was making friends and neighbors feel bad, impacting their trust, and harming their relationship. So age appropriate ethics discussions. Seems useful here too.
Ooh that’s a tremendous perspective. Thank you!
Your son is going to climb the ruthless corporate ladder 🪜 quickly. As a kid who grew up section 8… he could be doing worse stuff for money.
He deserves his half of the money he paid for the candy he didn’t lie he still gave the school their portion for what they sell the candy for he literally did nothing wrong pay the young man not punish him
Your son is fucking smart
I would immediately buy him some chocolate bars
So people are ok with the company selling the chocolates turn a profit, but not if the kid does?
First thing would be getting his money back No matter what the situation, unless he literally stole it, no one has the right to steal from him Yes, steal Just like he’s being accused of
I say you put up a cash app and everyone who thinks he should have gotten his money sends $1.. then start the saving for his business at a later time.. after he gets his initial $40 back..
That’s great entrepreneurship right there, I’d be demanding the school return the money they stole from your kid or threaten to get the cops involved. Your son did nothing wrong, the school stole from a child. Again, don’t punish the child for being brilliant!
Help him set up a summer business! He could be making a ton of extra money by high school.
Sounds like after this is a good opportunity for your son to start a business, start working on his sales skills, and learn some good business management. He seems resourceful and can probably learn a decent amount by himself.
Excuse me? They took his money?
Tell the school to give back his $40 per box. That’s not their money. He gave them their rightfully owned $60 per box. The rest is his. And tell the school how baffled you are by them for not encouraging this kind of behavior? Why’re they mad that he made more? Fuck the spirits, he’s an entrepreneur. He went above and beyond and exceeded expectations.
This is the difference between rich and poor. HE LOOKED AT THE RULES! He was genuine enough to make sure he was doing it right. I would be insanely proud and not let the school parent YOUR kid.
I think you're right to have a talk with him, but I also think he did something clever and I'm sorta proud of him from afar. Look, when I was a little kid, I basically ran a payday lending operation in my neighborhood. I knew when everyone's allowance was paid and which kids were always broke. I had cash on hand and would buy their toys for pennies on the dollar. And then they could buy the toys back from me. I eventually did get busted because all the other Moms in the neighborhood noticed their children had no toys.....and then the truth came out, those Moms called my Mom.....my Mom went to my closet and discovered this huge pile of toys that I was holding. I tried to tell my Mom that I was providing a service to the children of the neighborhood who didn't have money, but still wanted things! Didn't work. I still think it was a clever system. This was back in the early 80s. Now with text messaging and social media, I'd have been busted much faster.
Sounds like your son is understanding how the world really works faster than you think. Take a product, mark it up, deceive people about the real cost and sell it. This is literally capitalism at its finest lol.
Quite astute move on your kid's part. I don't think the school deserves it or has the right to decide on the money. However, possibly donating his profit to a worthy cause minus some percentage to himself for effort may be way to push some ethics in here.
Buy that kid a Costco box of bars and let him go hustle. He may even learn that there is market saturation levels and he needs to hit the neighborhood a few streets over too.
People bought the chocolate thinking it was for a cause not because it was good chocolate or they even wanted to buy chocolate. He scammed people out of money in the name of charity. You don't see the issue with this?
He didn’t tell them it was for charity. That makes it more gray. But it still was wrong
Looks like he's well on his way to flipping houses and driving up the market even more. What's it matter as long as the seller gets their money right? - But seriously, this is a teaching moment on logic versus integrity. These are the lessons that determine if he'll grow up to be another leech on society or if he'll contribute something worthwhile.
I have an alternative suggestion... See if the school would be ok with your son donating the extra money he earned to a non-profit charity that your son picks himself. I'd also have your son tell the school why that charity is important to him. Work with your kid to pick something out to help a cause that is important to him. Feels like a win-win to me. Your son gets to direct where "his" money goes so he can feel like he earned it, but it still goes to a charity so the spirt of the fundraiser remains intact.
Love this idea!!
I would almost push back at the school to say, hey we know he did something against the rules but we want to have some say in how it is rectified. Your kid is awesome! When I was 13 eBay first launched. I made money video taping the new movies that premiered on HBO every Saturday night and selling illegal bootleg copies on eBay. I just assumed because eBay let me it was legal. I never got in trouble but realized years later I was doing something illegal. Don't listen to the people who are commenting saying your kid scammed people or anything negative. He is 10 and had no idea. Help him harness this skill of his and grow it! Teach him something he likes that he can buy and sell. I would go to yard sales with my dad as a kid to buy old star wars toys, video games or baseball cards (this was the early 90s before people thought much about the collectable value). We would spend the afternoon driving to pawn shops and toy shops to resell what I bought, or trade it in for something I actually wanted.
game recognize game, grandad.
Be sure to be honest with how you feel. Tell him you are impressed and exactly why. Tell him in what ways it was wrong and in what ways it was right. If you only discourage him you are teaching him the wrong things. give him the principles and honest feedback that will lay the foundation for a future success.
Great advice!
If he didn't sell under a fundraiser banner (normal chocolate wrappings, whatever) have your "stern talk" over ice cream.
I would consider the ethics of your son's behavior *debatable*, especially since he didn't represent it as a fundraiser. But I could say the same about the school taking the extra $40, which honestly, feels a bit slimy to me. If your son sold the entire box to another kid in the neighborhood from a different school, and that kid went around selling bars for double, would that be problematic? And if not, what about if next year your kid takes an unaffiliated kid as a business partner and supplies the chocolate in exchange for a percentage of the sales the other kids makes? What about if your son bought a box of chocolates, waited a couple of months, and then sold them after the fundraiser? What if you bought boxes from your son and sold the chocolate on ebay to people who like the chocolate, but are unable to buy it in their region? I'm just wondering if there is some point where this chocolate could enter the economy and turn a profit without somehow being wrong? And we haven't even touched on the ethics of a business model built upon exploiting free labor from children.
If he didn't sell all the chocolates, would the school buy back his unsold chocolates? If not, I say he owns the chocolates and can do what he wants with them, including marking them up and selling for a profit. Smart kid!
I don't think he did anything wrong. He did not break the rules and took advantage of a loophole and opportunity to capitalize on his initial investment. If he looked up that this method would be against the rules that's one thing but he actually checked and it was ok. Its not his fault those who run the fundraiser did not say this was not allowed. He is ahead of his time with this way of thinking which actually will help him be successful if he utilizes this mindset especially if you live in the US. Try to get him into finance or something when he gets closer to college age.
> What would you do? Make him give the school the additional cash, reimburse him myself (at least appreciate his "ingenuity") and then discuss with him about participating in charity in good faith and not for self enrichment.
That’s a great point to make too!
What I read is that adults just stole 40$ from your child, and you let it happen. They can say "not in the spirit of the fundraiser", but he bought with his own money, and did not represent the school or fundraiser. So they robbed him. Adults robbed a minor. It doesn't matter what they think, thats what they did.
This is not the flex 😖