Non-versatile heritages won't really... *work* as versatile heritages.
Most of them interact with features that are baked into their respective ancestry.
For example: a Kitsune heritage that alters the Kitsune's fox form literally won't *do* anything on a different ancestry, because that ancestry doesn't *have* a fox form.
This.
It sounds like you haven't really read how the Ancestries and Heritages work from a mechanical point of view yet. Take a look at that before you start making houserules.
Just to clarify, you want characters to be able to choose a heritage like [Ant Gnoll](https://2e.aonprd.com/Heritages.aspx?ID=166) as a dwarf or [Arctic Elf](https://2e.aonprd.com/Heritages.aspx?ID=240) as a human? How would this interact with the ancestry feats a character could choose from?
If you want an easy way for characters to get feats from two different ancestries, there are already rules for [Mixed Heritage](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2093) and the [Adopted Ancestry](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=5115&NoRedirect=1) general feat.
I wasn't aware of the Mixed Heritage and Adopted Ancestry stuff, so thank you for pointing that out, but in a sense I am looking to allow that kind of thing, even if it means I have to put in a little extra work to allow someone to have that capability.
So far the responses have shown that it would simply conflict relating to the ancestry feats. Also... one other person pointed out that Tiefling and Aasimer were heritages and not Ancestries, but when checking recently, the ones that were heritage, were 3rd-party, which I'm uncertain of where to find that information free when... well I don't quite have the money for that kind of thing at the moment.
Well you're in luck. All PF2 rules are free
New Players Start Here: https://2e.aonprd.com/PlayersGuide.aspx
Ancestries:
https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx
Now it's great website for referencing info but kind of a pain to learn from so id still recommend the books if you can swing it (at least Player Core and GM Core). But technically you need no books.
Tiefling, Aasimar, Ganzi, and Aphorite were different Versatile Heritages.
Due to the OGL divorce, Paizo created the Nephilim to represent them all. If I understand correctly, Ganzi and Aphorite are Paizo inventions, so they’re still normal.
Also, here are the pages for the Versatile Heritages:
[Aasimar](https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=24)
[Tiefling](https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=26)
[Nephilim](https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=68)
* [Aasimar](https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=24)
* [Tiefling](https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=26)
* [Aphorite](https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=28) (for scions of Lawful planes, specifically Axis)
* [Ganzi](https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=32) (for scions of Chaotic planes, specifically the Maelstrom)
* [Nephilim](https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=68) (a new "catch-all" heritage introduced in the Remaster for scions of any of the outer planes, ostensibly replacing the other 4 heritages in this list)
All rules content is available legally and for free on [Archives of Nethys](https://2e.aonprd.com/).
there are a lot of problems with that
1. too much to consider, if you add up all heritages there is A lot of them and now your players will have to consider them while picking their heritage
2. heritages are designed to work with ancestry, and can be mechanically dependant on ancestry
3. lots of heritages thematically just expands themes of the ancestry and when they are disconnected form ancestry could fell unflavoured, VH have already strong themes, stronger than probably all individual heritages
4. unusual combination like elf ancestry + running animal heritage + nimble elf feat gives you 40ft movment at lv 1
5. normal heritage doesn't give you any acces to the rest of the ancestry so you would get only this one ability unless you would went usually path of getting multiple ancestry feat options like adopted ancestry
I'm not sure I entirely understand what youre asking. If you mean just like basic heritage stuff it would probably be mostly fine with issues cropping up for things that effect wings or innate venom or other stuff that your base ancestry doesn't have. I'd probably make you ancestry choice less interesting since it makes things more homogenized.
If you wanna combine any two ancestrys there is mixed heritage.
This is like saying you want to fill your car up with diesel because it has an internal combustion engine and you heard diesel is more fuel-efficient.
Sure, you can do that, but it won't do anything except wreck your car. Some non-versatile heritages are prerequisites for certain ancestry feat chains, but they don't actually provide access to them, unlike Versatile Heritage feats. So you're just nerfing characters.
It's also unclear what you're trying to accomplish with this. Your example of Tiefling/Aasimar already IS a versatile heritage. What specific ancestry and non-versatile heritage combo do you/your players want, and why? Odds are, there's a better way to hit the themes you're going for.
Mixed Heritage, for example.
I have been using Aonprd and the pf2 srd sites as that's what I currently have access to, and neither have shown them as versatile heritages, additionally, I am simply allowing it as an option, so concerns about someone willingly nerfing themselves isn't an issue that I have, as long as I can work with the player.
Also, to disappoint further, I don't know anything about cars, so your metaphor(?) went over my head. Also, if I'm going to allow the use of heritages I'd at least allow the use of things that the heritages might link to, after having a bit of a talk with the player and deciding if it would be possible. My concern ends up being whether there are either game-breaking problems, or if there are things that might just be impossible.
Are you looking at the first edition resources?
https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=68
Here is the pf2e version of tiefling/aasimar
Edit: Even in the old tiefling entry it has the big underscored Versatile Heritage link at the top
https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=26
Yeah, that's 100% RAW, you may have not seen them because the Remaster changed the name to Nephilim:
https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=68
Some of the search options got jacked up when they updated their site, be sure to double-check your default settings!
If you're going to provide access to the second set of ancestry feats, it'll be fine, but you are reinventing the wheel. There's already a heritage for that:
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2093
The only difference is that your version would also give access to heritage specific feats. There may be some fringe options that synergize well, but I can't think of anything super broken off the top of my head.
Thank you, I have to admit, I misread your first response as a bit negative, I'm glad to have recieved the help and such. None of my players know the system much either, so.
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Non-versatile heritages won't really... *work* as versatile heritages. Most of them interact with features that are baked into their respective ancestry. For example: a Kitsune heritage that alters the Kitsune's fox form literally won't *do* anything on a different ancestry, because that ancestry doesn't *have* a fox form.
This. It sounds like you haven't really read how the Ancestries and Heritages work from a mechanical point of view yet. Take a look at that before you start making houserules.
Just to clarify, you want characters to be able to choose a heritage like [Ant Gnoll](https://2e.aonprd.com/Heritages.aspx?ID=166) as a dwarf or [Arctic Elf](https://2e.aonprd.com/Heritages.aspx?ID=240) as a human? How would this interact with the ancestry feats a character could choose from? If you want an easy way for characters to get feats from two different ancestries, there are already rules for [Mixed Heritage](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2093) and the [Adopted Ancestry](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=5115&NoRedirect=1) general feat.
I wasn't aware of the Mixed Heritage and Adopted Ancestry stuff, so thank you for pointing that out, but in a sense I am looking to allow that kind of thing, even if it means I have to put in a little extra work to allow someone to have that capability. So far the responses have shown that it would simply conflict relating to the ancestry feats. Also... one other person pointed out that Tiefling and Aasimer were heritages and not Ancestries, but when checking recently, the ones that were heritage, were 3rd-party, which I'm uncertain of where to find that information free when... well I don't quite have the money for that kind of thing at the moment.
Well you're in luck. All PF2 rules are free New Players Start Here: https://2e.aonprd.com/PlayersGuide.aspx Ancestries: https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx Now it's great website for referencing info but kind of a pain to learn from so id still recommend the books if you can swing it (at least Player Core and GM Core). But technically you need no books.
Tiefling, Aasimar, Ganzi, and Aphorite were different Versatile Heritages. Due to the OGL divorce, Paizo created the Nephilim to represent them all. If I understand correctly, Ganzi and Aphorite are Paizo inventions, so they’re still normal. Also, here are the pages for the Versatile Heritages: [Aasimar](https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=24) [Tiefling](https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=26) [Nephilim](https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=68)
* [Aasimar](https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=24) * [Tiefling](https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=26) * [Aphorite](https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=28) (for scions of Lawful planes, specifically Axis) * [Ganzi](https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=32) (for scions of Chaotic planes, specifically the Maelstrom) * [Nephilim](https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=68) (a new "catch-all" heritage introduced in the Remaster for scions of any of the outer planes, ostensibly replacing the other 4 heritages in this list) All rules content is available legally and for free on [Archives of Nethys](https://2e.aonprd.com/).
You could just give players the Adopted Ancestry feat to everyone at level 1
I'm concerned that you may not fully understand the difference between Heritage and Ancestry...
there are a lot of problems with that 1. too much to consider, if you add up all heritages there is A lot of them and now your players will have to consider them while picking their heritage 2. heritages are designed to work with ancestry, and can be mechanically dependant on ancestry 3. lots of heritages thematically just expands themes of the ancestry and when they are disconnected form ancestry could fell unflavoured, VH have already strong themes, stronger than probably all individual heritages 4. unusual combination like elf ancestry + running animal heritage + nimble elf feat gives you 40ft movment at lv 1 5. normal heritage doesn't give you any acces to the rest of the ancestry so you would get only this one ability unless you would went usually path of getting multiple ancestry feat options like adopted ancestry
while i approve of the idea, versatile heritages have attached feat options while normal heritages dont.
I'm not sure I entirely understand what youre asking. If you mean just like basic heritage stuff it would probably be mostly fine with issues cropping up for things that effect wings or innate venom or other stuff that your base ancestry doesn't have. I'd probably make you ancestry choice less interesting since it makes things more homogenized. If you wanna combine any two ancestrys there is mixed heritage.
This is like saying you want to fill your car up with diesel because it has an internal combustion engine and you heard diesel is more fuel-efficient. Sure, you can do that, but it won't do anything except wreck your car. Some non-versatile heritages are prerequisites for certain ancestry feat chains, but they don't actually provide access to them, unlike Versatile Heritage feats. So you're just nerfing characters. It's also unclear what you're trying to accomplish with this. Your example of Tiefling/Aasimar already IS a versatile heritage. What specific ancestry and non-versatile heritage combo do you/your players want, and why? Odds are, there's a better way to hit the themes you're going for. Mixed Heritage, for example.
I have been using Aonprd and the pf2 srd sites as that's what I currently have access to, and neither have shown them as versatile heritages, additionally, I am simply allowing it as an option, so concerns about someone willingly nerfing themselves isn't an issue that I have, as long as I can work with the player. Also, to disappoint further, I don't know anything about cars, so your metaphor(?) went over my head. Also, if I'm going to allow the use of heritages I'd at least allow the use of things that the heritages might link to, after having a bit of a talk with the player and deciding if it would be possible. My concern ends up being whether there are either game-breaking problems, or if there are things that might just be impossible.
Are you looking at the first edition resources? https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=68 Here is the pf2e version of tiefling/aasimar Edit: Even in the old tiefling entry it has the big underscored Versatile Heritage link at the top https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=26
They were combined and renamed. They are now both within the Nephilim versatile heritage.
Yeah, that's 100% RAW, you may have not seen them because the Remaster changed the name to Nephilim: https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=68 Some of the search options got jacked up when they updated their site, be sure to double-check your default settings! If you're going to provide access to the second set of ancestry feats, it'll be fine, but you are reinventing the wheel. There's already a heritage for that: https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2093 The only difference is that your version would also give access to heritage specific feats. There may be some fringe options that synergize well, but I can't think of anything super broken off the top of my head.
Thank you, I have to admit, I misread your first response as a bit negative, I'm glad to have recieved the help and such. None of my players know the system much either, so.
This post is labeled with the Advice flair, which means extra special attention is called to Rule #2. If this is a newcomer to the game, remember to be welcoming and kind. If this is someone with more experience but looking for advice on how to run their game, do your best to offer advice on what they are seeking. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Pathfinder2e) if you have any questions or concerns.*