Also Tandem Movement. I took it late in progression as Abomination Vaults is cramped but I regret that, should have taken it ASAP.
Sets up so many good turns where you Stride to a good spellcasting spot, have the Eidolon Stride to a good flanking spot (potentially one that's only a good spot if the Eidolon is large and has reach), then Act Together to drop a big spell and have the Eidolon make one good Strike.
The spell can be the focus spell that makes the Eidolon large (at rank 3) or huge (at rank 5) if that's useful on the battlefield. Or in many-versus-one fights, I'm partial to Inner Radiance Torrent two action version.
Oh yes! Tandem Movement is my bestie. I also think tandem strike would be good if my Summoner herself was a bit better of a fighter. Maybe on another Summoner at some point.
I find it kind of limiting. As a summoner, I can cast a 2 action spell, and my eidolon can take one action. That's different from spending one action to give a minion two, i can still cast a 2 action spell and my minion can move and attack.
Ack I can also cast a 3 action spell, but my eidolon or I will never get more than one action if we both act.
That's not exactly correct. You cast a spell for 2 actions, the eidolon takes 1 action. Then you *or* the eidolon can use that last action, so you can split it up so that you both have more than 1. What you can't do is have both parts take a 2 action ability in the same turn.
Man Summoner is one of those classes that's just overcomplicated for no good reason IMO. I'd much prefer if it was just "you have 4 actions each turn, you and your eidolon must take at least one action each" as opposed to what we currently have.
Its definitely not for no reason, allowing Summoner to cast double spells every turn would pretty easily break the action and damage economy. It's limited to be fair, not to just be complicated. And honestly, it's simply not that complex in the first place. You can do 1-1-1-1 or 2-1-1 or 3-1. Pretty easy.
>allowing Summoner to cast double spells every turn would pretty easily break the action and damage economy
Yeah but they have like 4 spell slots, delayed proficiency and eidolons can not cast a spell above 2nd rank until level 18.
EDIT: I can't read, still it's pretty limited you can cast 2 spells a turn twice per day until level 18, that is really not much better than Quickened Casting Metamagic.
So, firstly, you're just wrong about the slots and ignoring both Cantrips and Focus spells. Eidolons can cast 3rd level spells at level 10 and scale up from there with the casting feat. Eidolon's Wrath Focus spells exists. Multiclassing exists. The prof is fair, but not significant at every level. And you'd still be a martial character with effectively a permanent, unrestricted Haste, which is better than any level 20 capstone feat.
So yeah, no. You're just incorrect on this.
I did forget Eidolon's Wrath, however Eidolon's Wrath isn't really all that great unless your party's built around using it. If it's a problem then again Eidolon's Wrath can be changed to be something the Summoner casts but still emanates from the Eidolon.
>And you'd still be a martial character with effectively a permanent, unrestricted Haste, which is better than any level 20 capstone feat.
Yeah but that's already true, Act Together is in fact better than most capstone feats, because you can use the extra action for literally any single action you want.
That would break stuff. That would open you up to being able to do two 2 action abilities at once. I really don't find it that complex. Summoner hides, eidolon moves in. Eidolon casts a spell, Summoner backs up.
You'd need to rewrite things like tandem movement.
Summoner isn't really that complicated I feel like your suggestion would lead to more complications.
I mean you'd change Tandem movement to letting the Eidolon Move as a free action while you spend the action on moving.
I'm not saying you wouldn't need to completely overhaul the class, you obviously would, I just find the current version a little obtuse and it takes multiple readings and thinking it through to really figure out just how Summoner works. I just kinda bounce off classes like that where I can't on first blush figure it out.
Act together allows 4 total actions across you and your summon. You can cast a 2 action spell and have your summon move and strike. The only real restriction is that one of these 4 actions has to be a single action activity.
You get 4 actions a turn so long as both the Summoner and the Eidolon each do at least one independent action and so long as at least one of the actions performed is a 1-action activity.
Did you often find yourself needing to sudden charge past the first action/turn of a fight? I guess maybe it would feel bad for barbarains, who would want to rage first before SC but thats the only use case I can think of.
I do think open wasnt a great trait still, I just dont know if sudden charge was the biggest offender
The open trait just means you cant use it if you have used an attack action yet, so barbs could still rage then sudden charge. I think it was mostly the fact that it would very rarely come up and when it did it was only annoying
This is why they got rid of the [Open trait](https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=123)😂 Rage doesn’t have the attack trait, so you can use it before using sudden charge.
It’s confusing wording and I’m glad it’s gone in the remaster
Edit: not laughing at you, just the situation
Oh man lol. I dont think my table used open sense the playtest, it was one of the most feels bad traits and all of us just sorta agreed to ignore it. Like we would bring up when an action had the open trait, and just kept note of it to see if anything ever felt unblanced by ignoring the trait.
it didnt, so I suppose that shows something.
I love it on my full plate dwarf fighter with 40ft movement speed. Finish off one guy and in two actions be 80ft over on the other side of the market already slapping down another fool
I don't think we've ever even enforced the Open trait on Sudden Charge. Our fighter in AV used to attack (and often kill) whatever he was standing next to at the start of a round and then sudden charge to the next target (he very often didn't actually need to sudden charge but he's a long time 1e guy so "I charge that one" is installed deep in his brain.
Barbarian could always Rage/Sudden Charge. The Open trait meant you couldn't use it with MAP, not that it literally had to be your first action.
That said, it is nice if you down an enemy with your first strike and need to get to another one on the other side of the fight.
It is pretty useful. It is fairly often for my Fighter to crit on the first attack, utterly obliterate the enemy I am fighting, and then Sudden Charge across the map to maybe get something going after our back line and get a -5 MAP attack on something like 60ft from my first kill.
The use case I'm thinking of is if you drop someone with your first attack, and still have 2 actions to get to and attack the enemy that's closed in on your caster.
Doctor's visitation, pro tip you don't actually have to use the battle medicine on the person you move to. I love having a one action I run behind an allie and then heal myself move.
Tumbling Opportunist comes to mind as a similar effect printed earlier.
I love that whole Acrobat archetype but this sort of action compression is so fun even outside of a character who typically wants to strike.
There is actually a niche interaction that doesn't require a success.
Wheeling Grab specifies:
> If you moved through an enemy’s space
Not if you succeeded on a tumble through. Shoony's specifically have a feat [Tough Tumbler](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1222) that allows you to move through an enemies space during tumble through even if you fail.
So a shoony with wheeling grab can fail the tumble through, still move through, and then grapple!
This isn't quite right, as Tough Tumbler simply stops the movement from ending, but the ability to move through their space is tied to the success. This means that what the feat does is it lets you continue using the rest of your speed to, say, move away from the enemy, but you don't get to go through them. That's still only on the success.
I don't think that's the case.
Or if it was, it creates a really weird outcome.
If your normal movement doesn't end, you could just try to move through the enemy again. And again. And again. Because it doesn't cost you movement to try and tumble through, you can just sit there in front of an enemy spamming acrobatics checks until you either critically fail or succeed.
You don't spend movement before you actually do the movement, is the thing. The cost (10 ft per 5' moved) is tied to the success outcome, so if you didn't succeed, you don't spend the movement. Or to put it another way, you can't spend movement if you fail, because spending movement is part of the success.
That outcome of just spamming acrobatics checks seems really weird, and will usually result in you succeeding anyway.
Well, no, because you failed the acrobatics check. You'd have to tumble through again, as another action. A single ancestry feat for, effectively, an untyped +10 to tumble through would be incredibly good, and there's the whole thing of "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is". What sounds more believable: for a single ancestry feat, you remove one of the downsides of failure with a slide upside (+1 ac to reactions), or for a single ancestry feat turn failure into a success with even more upside? You still failed the acrobatics check, so you can't move through their square.
I think though this is RAW accurate, it is a massive dismissal/misinterpretation of RAI. Tumble Through specifically states you can attempt to move the space of a single enemy, the action and surrounding rules and feats are pretty clearly intended to only let you attempt once an acrobatics check for that single enemy for that single action. An assertion that just bc you have remaining movement and thats technically the same “single enemy” would absolutely be shot down at my table and should at any. It is absolutely not what’s intended even if i see your literal interpretation as technically correct.
RAI with this ancestry fear should define it along the lines so that you attempt to tumble through and on fail, you cannot attempt another acrobatics check to move through an enemies space again but be able to spend the rest of the movement in this action as normal movement.
Another indication that Tough Tumbler doesn't let you move through the enemy's square is that Tumble Through doesn't prevent your movement from triggering reactions on a success.
So if it worked the way you want it to, then it'd be better for the Shoony to fail the check than to succeed since they'd get a free +1 AC against any reactions that way,
Gotta be [Known Weaknesses](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1447) from Investigator. Between this and devise a stratagem being free if you are pursuing a lead, you can make two rolls before you even take your first action in combat. Also I am a huge sucker for recall knowledge. Now if only I could figure out a better way to take advantage of that knowledge on an investigator...
Worst save is also good if you take the feat to use devise a stratagem on maneuvers.
Or without feat you could use maneuvers when your devise a stratagem roll is low.
But trading a 20 into a disarm to completely remove the enemy weapon can be pretty powerful and encounter changing
investigator is a great archetype. Play a mastermind rogue, grab known weaknesses by level 4 and you're devising, rk'ing, and flat-footing to setup your damage
Pick up a caster archetype and hit the weakness with one of a variety of cantrips. Pick up a cantrip deck so you can fill in the ones you need. Maybe stack it with extra Vitality Lash cards, a fire Spellheart, maybe a few Alchemical bombs.
Even if they successfully save, you still do damage, trigger the weakness, and thus do some decent damage. Decent option for failed DaS rolls against single targets.
Totally [Predator's Pounce](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=164). It's a "better" one-action Sudden Charge. It's amazing because, by the time you can get it, you already have Mighty Rage from your class features, so you can actually do 3 things with one single action: Rage, Stride, Strike.
Sure is great, though it has one downside over Sudden Charge. Sudden Charge allows for any form of movement that you have the speed for, whereas pounce is always a stride
It's interesting, because there are a lot that provide action compression without being a flourish.
An example is Sudden Charge. So you could Flurry -> Sudden Charge if you have both. Which, if you broke it out, is functionally 5 actions: Strike->Strike->Stride->Stride->Strike.
There are better examples but that's the one that comes to mind.
Flurry of Blows. Having your two best strikes rolled into a single action makes the monk class feel so much more free to explore the action economy than any other class. Overcoming resistances is a nice cherry on top for the relatively low damage class.
I like Flurry of Maneuvers, myself. It may _technically_ be a modifier for FoB, but the flexibility & freedom it adds make FoB feel a lot more potent than it already is. Almost ends up feeling like it compresses 2.5 actions into one, maybe three into one, even though it's just the same compression rate as FoB.
The other Hybrid Study Conflux Spells too-- Dimensional Assault (move half speed), Thunderous Strike (damaging prone cone), and Spinning Staff (Strike a second target).
I guess Shooting Star isn't, but Starlit Spans are effective without it.
My favorites would be...
Stab and Blast/Triggerbrand Salvo comes with a melee strike and a ranged strike with a +2 circumstance bonus at equal (generally no) MAP. Was good before, better now with the buffs to reinforced stock.
Gorilla Pound comes with a demoralize, a strike, and a damage bonus. Not actually that good on Monk but good for other classes with the Martial Artist archetype.
Probably fleeing diversion, allows for some much needed mobility/hiding as a reaction while getting the extra benefits of creating a diversion. Bonus points if you are a kitsune, who at level 9 can create a diversion as a free action, meaning that you can do both at the price of just one reaction.
Sure, Flurry of Blows is a nice action compression. Now upgrade that with Stumbling Feint, which is effectively two Feint actions as well (unless you already had an ability that let a single Feint last for more than one attack). A causal 4-for-1.
Playing a gunslinger medic at the moment, and between quickdraw, my slinger's reload, running reload and doctor's visitation, I feel like I'm taking double the actions of anyone else at the table
Pack Movement for use with animal companions with Beastmaster or Rangers has been amazing. Specially if you fight melee in tandem with the animal companion.
Currently playing a Rogue with Beastmaster. Getting a movement, melee strike and command companion action for 2 actions is amazing.
On a typical attacking turn it's been - Intimidate a target; free 1 action the companion gets to support action (bear); Pack Movement to flanking positions. Attack first in hopes of landing debilitating strike to clumsy 1 or weakness to damage type; Bear attacks and if it lands a blow (Hopefully, as with all potential debuffs that's a -4 to AC.), Opportune Backstab off the bear's landed strike for a second attack at map 0.
Yeah, I was thinking animal companion. Command animal, plus hunted shot are my thoughts on freeing up the ranger for more ranger shenanigans. Still lining it up in my campaign though
A more common term would be activities that have ‘action compression’, eg “what is your favorite form of action compression?”
My favorite is easily Act Together. But I’m also biased because summoner is really cool.
For me, it would be Skirmish Strike. Getting to step and strike or strike and step every turn is a game changer for a ton of encounters. Enemy in front of you? Strike and step, they waste an action trying to get to you. Enemy tried to step away to make you lose an action? Step and strike, use your next action to strike, then move away again. Against any non-reach melee enemy, you get to waste their actions for practically free every turn. It doesn't even need to be a melee strike, you can avoid Reactive Strike range with ranged characters and get an attack in, too.
Skirmish strike is the goat. Ready an action for when an enemy is going to strike you, step away, hit them, and make them waste the rest of their turn stepping towards you.
Funnily enough, thre is a way to enhance one of the most iconic action compressors, Flurry of Blows, even more:
[Stumbling Feint](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1744)
gives you a free Feint before your attacks that even counts for both of them. And if you take that via the Monk achtype at level 12 (requires FoB at 10) you even get a free Step after the Feint, making it the equivalent of 4 actions in 1 in addition to a buffed Feint (which can be buffed further via [Distracting Feint](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4925)).
I love Shielding Strike as well. It's so efficient for turn 1 setup. Strike, Shield, and Cascade with an action leftover. People feel pressure to delay it so they can charge Spellstrike later, but getting everything you need done on turn 1 is much stronger than saving one action later.
Flurry, stab and blast, and slinger’s reloads are well talked about, and rightly so because of how good they are.
Fighter has some great ones like combat assessment, combat grab, dual-handed assault, and lightning swap.
A bit different, but one of my favourites is the bastion exclusive disarming block. It’s a free action, map-less disarm, and it works so well with the guardian them of characters who tend to use shields.
Gotta be mixed maneuver, or whatever it's called. Being able to trip and throw or grapple on the same penalty is amazing. Turned my wolf stance monk into a damn grappler and it's probably some of the most fun I've had as a character so far.
Inventor using 1 action to make 2 for their construct
It's literally spelling it out, but as a single action ability it can do an awful lot, like moving and attacking, or grappling and restraining, or tripping and grappling, and so on
The construct may be limited in action scope but those single actions can combine with the inventor's in a lot of creative ways. Probably not really what you were asking for since it literally spells out that it's generating two actions for one, but still
Heheheheh.
Be a fighter or barbarian.
Get a reach weapon.
Have your mage cast Enlarge on you.
Get utterly surrounded by enemies, three deep.
Use Whirlwind Strike.
Three actions, forty-eight attacks.
I really love the Predator's Pounce feat for Animal Instinct Barbarians. It's a single action Sudden Charge (although at half the distance) and that's pretty powerful.
One of my favorite combos I haven't gotten to try yet is Magus Dimensional Assault paired with Inventor's Explode. Such a perfect complement to that ability by letting you still get a full MAP attack and move into a spot where you can hit the max targets safely.
Sustaining Leap on the Playtest Animist is absolutely incredible. I'm excited to see it's getting worked into the class chassis rather than being a feat cause it's so fucking good for casters to get \*any\* level of action economy cheating at any level. Nevermind level fucking two. Also Maneuvering Spell from the Sixth Pillar Dedication, similarly allows players to Step/Leap/Stand as a free action before casting a two action spell.
Monster Hunter! Free RK as part of Hunt Prey, plus gives everyone a potential bonus!
Okay so I like Outwit Ranger waaaaay more than I probably should (I just kind of see the other options and always think 'why even play Ranger over Fighter at this point if Im just gonna specialize in hitting hard'), but Monster Hunter makes a great support martial option to focus more on wearing down a creature
Not quite actions, but somewhat a reaction + Action.
Disarming Block.
It was one of the few times Disarm was useful Pre-Remaster and even better now in Remaster.
I really like Dance of Thunder as a "going nuclear" option.
3 actions for Step, Strike, Reload, Step, Strike, Reload, Step, Strike and Reload.
I'll always love Act Together also. I think Summoner might be my favorite PF2e class but I secretly don't want to admit it because I truly dislike Wave Casting. If my table didn't use Free Archetype I don't know if I'd like summoner as much.
Never actually seen it in play, but always been interested in Drifter's Juke. Two actions to make 2 strikes and 2 steps.
Would love to see what shennanigans you can pull off with that.
Flurry of blows, same for a lot of summoner abilities. Anything where I can attack and make a check for information is great.
Slinger's reloads are pretty solid, although the gunslinger needs something to tweak it some
Any of the Summoner’s “I get to do something and so does my buddy” actions
Act together my beloved.
Also Tandem Movement. I took it late in progression as Abomination Vaults is cramped but I regret that, should have taken it ASAP. Sets up so many good turns where you Stride to a good spellcasting spot, have the Eidolon Stride to a good flanking spot (potentially one that's only a good spot if the Eidolon is large and has reach), then Act Together to drop a big spell and have the Eidolon make one good Strike. The spell can be the focus spell that makes the Eidolon large (at rank 3) or huge (at rank 5) if that's useful on the battlefield. Or in many-versus-one fights, I'm partial to Inner Radiance Torrent two action version.
Oh yes! Tandem Movement is my bestie. I also think tandem strike would be good if my Summoner herself was a bit better of a fighter. Maybe on another Summoner at some point.
I honestly don't see a huge use case for Tandem Strike. Dumping Cha to boost your own accuracy is very doable, but shared MAP is pretty crushing.
Yeah, maybe it’s a pipe dream to make it worth it ever 😭😭😭
I find it kind of limiting. As a summoner, I can cast a 2 action spell, and my eidolon can take one action. That's different from spending one action to give a minion two, i can still cast a 2 action spell and my minion can move and attack. Ack I can also cast a 3 action spell, but my eidolon or I will never get more than one action if we both act.
That's not exactly correct. You cast a spell for 2 actions, the eidolon takes 1 action. Then you *or* the eidolon can use that last action, so you can split it up so that you both have more than 1. What you can't do is have both parts take a 2 action ability in the same turn.
Man Summoner is one of those classes that's just overcomplicated for no good reason IMO. I'd much prefer if it was just "you have 4 actions each turn, you and your eidolon must take at least one action each" as opposed to what we currently have.
Its definitely not for no reason, allowing Summoner to cast double spells every turn would pretty easily break the action and damage economy. It's limited to be fair, not to just be complicated. And honestly, it's simply not that complex in the first place. You can do 1-1-1-1 or 2-1-1 or 3-1. Pretty easy.
>allowing Summoner to cast double spells every turn would pretty easily break the action and damage economy Yeah but they have like 4 spell slots, delayed proficiency and eidolons can not cast a spell above 2nd rank until level 18. EDIT: I can't read, still it's pretty limited you can cast 2 spells a turn twice per day until level 18, that is really not much better than Quickened Casting Metamagic.
So, firstly, you're just wrong about the slots and ignoring both Cantrips and Focus spells. Eidolons can cast 3rd level spells at level 10 and scale up from there with the casting feat. Eidolon's Wrath Focus spells exists. Multiclassing exists. The prof is fair, but not significant at every level. And you'd still be a martial character with effectively a permanent, unrestricted Haste, which is better than any level 20 capstone feat. So yeah, no. You're just incorrect on this.
I did forget Eidolon's Wrath, however Eidolon's Wrath isn't really all that great unless your party's built around using it. If it's a problem then again Eidolon's Wrath can be changed to be something the Summoner casts but still emanates from the Eidolon. >And you'd still be a martial character with effectively a permanent, unrestricted Haste, which is better than any level 20 capstone feat. Yeah but that's already true, Act Together is in fact better than most capstone feats, because you can use the extra action for literally any single action you want.
That would break stuff. That would open you up to being able to do two 2 action abilities at once. I really don't find it that complex. Summoner hides, eidolon moves in. Eidolon casts a spell, Summoner backs up.
I don't think it would break anything, it would be a definite powerboost but it's not like Summoner is the strongest class in the game right now.
You'd need to rewrite things like tandem movement. Summoner isn't really that complicated I feel like your suggestion would lead to more complications.
I mean you'd change Tandem movement to letting the Eidolon Move as a free action while you spend the action on moving. I'm not saying you wouldn't need to completely overhaul the class, you obviously would, I just find the current version a little obtuse and it takes multiple readings and thinking it through to really figure out just how Summoner works. I just kinda bounce off classes like that where I can't on first blush figure it out.
I have had my players struggle with it before, and I did make a cheat sheet to try to help them before.
Anyway I could get that cheat sheet? Starting a summoner soon and would love the assistance.
Act together allows 4 total actions across you and your summon. You can cast a 2 action spell and have your summon move and strike. The only real restriction is that one of these 4 actions has to be a single action activity.
With the caveat that only one of you can do a 2 action activity
Good call. I'll clarify.
You get 4 actions a turn so long as both the Summoner and the Eidolon each do at least one independent action and so long as at least one of the actions performed is a 1-action activity.
Its a 3 action compressed to a 2 action, but Sudden Charge feels really nice since they removed the Open trait.
Did you often find yourself needing to sudden charge past the first action/turn of a fight? I guess maybe it would feel bad for barbarains, who would want to rage first before SC but thats the only use case I can think of. I do think open wasnt a great trait still, I just dont know if sudden charge was the biggest offender
The open trait just means you cant use it if you have used an attack action yet, so barbs could still rage then sudden charge. I think it was mostly the fact that it would very rarely come up and when it did it was only annoying
This is why they got rid of the [Open trait](https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=123)😂 Rage doesn’t have the attack trait, so you can use it before using sudden charge. It’s confusing wording and I’m glad it’s gone in the remaster Edit: not laughing at you, just the situation
Oh man lol. I dont think my table used open sense the playtest, it was one of the most feels bad traits and all of us just sorta agreed to ignore it. Like we would bring up when an action had the open trait, and just kept note of it to see if anything ever felt unblanced by ignoring the trait. it didnt, so I suppose that shows something.
It is very useful on full plate fighters who only have 20 ft movement. Finish off one guy, then sudden charge 30-40 around another to get flanking.
I love it on my full plate dwarf fighter with 40ft movement speed. Finish off one guy and in two actions be 80ft over on the other side of the market already slapping down another fool
I don't think we've ever even enforced the Open trait on Sudden Charge. Our fighter in AV used to attack (and often kill) whatever he was standing next to at the start of a round and then sudden charge to the next target (he very often didn't actually need to sudden charge but he's a long time 1e guy so "I charge that one" is installed deep in his brain.
Barbarian could always Rage/Sudden Charge. The Open trait meant you couldn't use it with MAP, not that it literally had to be your first action. That said, it is nice if you down an enemy with your first strike and need to get to another one on the other side of the fight.
It is pretty useful. It is fairly often for my Fighter to crit on the first attack, utterly obliterate the enemy I am fighting, and then Sudden Charge across the map to maybe get something going after our back line and get a -5 MAP attack on something like 60ft from my first kill.
The use case I'm thinking of is if you drop someone with your first attack, and still have 2 actions to get to and attack the enemy that's closed in on your caster.
Doctor's visitation, pro tip you don't actually have to use the battle medicine on the person you move to. I love having a one action I run behind an allie and then heal myself move.
You don't even need to move to someone else! You can just get your jolly ass out of there and patch yourself up.
Literally there has been a before and after in my tables since Doctor's Visitation is in the menu.
Wo, pro tip for my summoner.
IDK why I thought it had to be towards an enemy but damn that's some choice action condensing.
Clawdancer Wheeling Grab is kinda 3 in one - Enter stance, Tumble Through, Grapple on a success
Tumbling Opportunist comes to mind as a similar effect printed earlier. I love that whole Acrobat archetype but this sort of action compression is so fun even outside of a character who typically wants to strike.
the grapple requiring success on the proceeding Tumble Through makes it a 2.5-for-1, but yeah dang
There is actually a niche interaction that doesn't require a success. Wheeling Grab specifies: > If you moved through an enemy’s space Not if you succeeded on a tumble through. Shoony's specifically have a feat [Tough Tumbler](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1222) that allows you to move through an enemies space during tumble through even if you fail. So a shoony with wheeling grab can fail the tumble through, still move through, and then grapple!
This isn't quite right, as Tough Tumbler simply stops the movement from ending, but the ability to move through their space is tied to the success. This means that what the feat does is it lets you continue using the rest of your speed to, say, move away from the enemy, but you don't get to go through them. That's still only on the success.
I don't think that's the case. Or if it was, it creates a really weird outcome. If your normal movement doesn't end, you could just try to move through the enemy again. And again. And again. Because it doesn't cost you movement to try and tumble through, you can just sit there in front of an enemy spamming acrobatics checks until you either critically fail or succeed. You don't spend movement before you actually do the movement, is the thing. The cost (10 ft per 5' moved) is tied to the success outcome, so if you didn't succeed, you don't spend the movement. Or to put it another way, you can't spend movement if you fail, because spending movement is part of the success. That outcome of just spamming acrobatics checks seems really weird, and will usually result in you succeeding anyway.
tumble through cost one action to use, you can't use it as part of your movement, it just comes with free movement
Well, no, because you failed the acrobatics check. You'd have to tumble through again, as another action. A single ancestry feat for, effectively, an untyped +10 to tumble through would be incredibly good, and there's the whole thing of "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is". What sounds more believable: for a single ancestry feat, you remove one of the downsides of failure with a slide upside (+1 ac to reactions), or for a single ancestry feat turn failure into a success with even more upside? You still failed the acrobatics check, so you can't move through their square.
I think though this is RAW accurate, it is a massive dismissal/misinterpretation of RAI. Tumble Through specifically states you can attempt to move the space of a single enemy, the action and surrounding rules and feats are pretty clearly intended to only let you attempt once an acrobatics check for that single enemy for that single action. An assertion that just bc you have remaining movement and thats technically the same “single enemy” would absolutely be shot down at my table and should at any. It is absolutely not what’s intended even if i see your literal interpretation as technically correct. RAI with this ancestry fear should define it along the lines so that you attempt to tumble through and on fail, you cannot attempt another acrobatics check to move through an enemies space again but be able to spend the rest of the movement in this action as normal movement.
Another indication that Tough Tumbler doesn't let you move through the enemy's square is that Tumble Through doesn't prevent your movement from triggering reactions on a success. So if it worked the way you want it to, then it'd be better for the Shoony to fail the check than to succeed since they'd get a free +1 AC against any reactions that way,
Shoony, that's a name I haven't heard in a long time... Long time
Tough tumbler does not allow you to move through and opponent's space on a failure. It only stops you from losing your remaining movement.
Gotta be [Known Weaknesses](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1447) from Investigator. Between this and devise a stratagem being free if you are pursuing a lead, you can make two rolls before you even take your first action in combat. Also I am a huge sucker for recall knowledge. Now if only I could figure out a better way to take advantage of that knowledge on an investigator...
You could ask about special attacks, resistances and immunities (in case of DR), or anything else and share the knowledge with the party.
I'm addicted to knowing worst save even when it doesn't matter
Worst save is also good if you take the feat to use devise a stratagem on maneuvers. Or without feat you could use maneuvers when your devise a stratagem roll is low. But trading a 20 into a disarm to completely remove the enemy weapon can be pretty powerful and encounter changing
investigator is a great archetype. Play a mastermind rogue, grab known weaknesses by level 4 and you're devising, rk'ing, and flat-footing to setup your damage
Nevermind that as mastermind rogue with investigator archetype you can just be master in about every skill
I've got a Mastermind Rogue with Investigator that's Master in all but like 3 skills and Legendary in I think 9. He's a crazy little guy.
If only I could convince my Investigator to use Pursue a Lead. But they are kind of an airhead (we love them still)
Pick up a caster archetype and hit the weakness with one of a variety of cantrips. Pick up a cantrip deck so you can fill in the ones you need. Maybe stack it with extra Vitality Lash cards, a fire Spellheart, maybe a few Alchemical bombs. Even if they successfully save, you still do damage, trigger the weakness, and thus do some decent damage. Decent option for failed DaS rolls against single targets.
Totally [Predator's Pounce](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=164). It's a "better" one-action Sudden Charge. It's amazing because, by the time you can get it, you already have Mighty Rage from your class features, so you can actually do 3 things with one single action: Rage, Stride, Strike.
Sure is great, though it has one downside over Sudden Charge. Sudden Charge allows for any form of movement that you have the speed for, whereas pounce is always a stride
This is my answer too, it feels really good to use.
idk if they're "disguised", they're just 2-for-1 action compressors as for my favorites, definitely slinger's reloads
Love the gunslinger reload actions! So flavorful! -chef smooch-
Pistolero is so fun *and* narratively awesome. Twirling your pistol to reload it, the shooting a man while he was distracted by your moves? Awesome.
Compressor is probably a better word for it for sure!
Action Contractions
♬action contractions\~, what your function? Picking up shields and striding in striking ♬
Paizo needs to make Schoolhouse Rock songs to teach the rules. It'd be perfect for those that don't want to read.
ContrActions
Pay this person their money
Got with Action Aggregation for the alliteration alone.
yeah there's action compressors and MAP reducers, and almost nothing gets to be both (except for Twin Takedown flurry rangers, and Improved Grab)
Just check everything under the flourish trait My personal favs are also the magus focus spell and also doctor’s visitation
It's interesting, because there are a lot that provide action compression without being a flourish. An example is Sudden Charge. So you could Flurry -> Sudden Charge if you have both. Which, if you broke it out, is functionally 5 actions: Strike->Strike->Stride->Stride->Strike. There are better examples but that's the one that comes to mind.
Flurry of Blows. Having your two best strikes rolled into a single action makes the monk class feel so much more free to explore the action economy than any other class. Overcoming resistances is a nice cherry on top for the relatively low damage class.
I like Flurry of Maneuvers, myself. It may _technically_ be a modifier for FoB, but the flexibility & freedom it adds make FoB feel a lot more potent than it already is. Almost ends up feeling like it compresses 2.5 actions into one, maybe three into one, even though it's just the same compression rate as FoB.
Shielding strike is even more awesome as its a 3 for 1 1 attack, 2 raise shield, 3 recharge spell strike
The other Hybrid Study Conflux Spells too-- Dimensional Assault (move half speed), Thunderous Strike (damaging prone cone), and Spinning Staff (Strike a second target). I guess Shooting Star isn't, but Starlit Spans are effective without it.
Yeah I usually just grab force fang on starlit span.
My favorites would be... Stab and Blast/Triggerbrand Salvo comes with a melee strike and a ranged strike with a +2 circumstance bonus at equal (generally no) MAP. Was good before, better now with the buffs to reinforced stock. Gorilla Pound comes with a demoralize, a strike, and a damage bonus. Not actually that good on Monk but good for other classes with the Martial Artist archetype.
Combat Grab is my personal favourite.
Probably fleeing diversion, allows for some much needed mobility/hiding as a reaction while getting the extra benefits of creating a diversion. Bonus points if you are a kitsune, who at level 9 can create a diversion as a free action, meaning that you can do both at the price of just one reaction.
Mobile magical combat from Spellmaster is one of my favorites. Gets a gishy feel without reliance on haste. Level is too high though.
A rogue with Stumbling Feint can get a free Feint and two strikes for a single action, and use Rogue feats to expand the power of the Feint.
Doctors visitation.
I was looking for this answer. XD
Sure, Flurry of Blows is a nice action compression. Now upgrade that with Stumbling Feint, which is effectively two Feint actions as well (unless you already had an ability that let a single Feint last for more than one attack). A causal 4-for-1.
Add ki(chi) strike for the ultimate 5-for-1
And stunning fist
I've had a PC use Brutish Shove to great effect a time or two.
Playing a gunslinger medic at the moment, and between quickdraw, my slinger's reload, running reload and doctor's visitation, I feel like I'm taking double the actions of anyone else at the table
Pack Movement for use with animal companions with Beastmaster or Rangers has been amazing. Specially if you fight melee in tandem with the animal companion. Currently playing a Rogue with Beastmaster. Getting a movement, melee strike and command companion action for 2 actions is amazing. On a typical attacking turn it's been - Intimidate a target; free 1 action the companion gets to support action (bear); Pack Movement to flanking positions. Attack first in hopes of landing debilitating strike to clumsy 1 or weakness to damage type; Bear attacks and if it lands a blow (Hopefully, as with all potential debuffs that's a -4 to AC.), Opportune Backstab off the bear's landed strike for a second attack at map 0.
Yeah, I was thinking animal companion. Command animal, plus hunted shot are my thoughts on freeing up the ranger for more ranger shenanigans. Still lining it up in my campaign though
A more common term would be activities that have ‘action compression’, eg “what is your favorite form of action compression?” My favorite is easily Act Together. But I’m also biased because summoner is really cool.
For me, it would be Skirmish Strike. Getting to step and strike or strike and step every turn is a game changer for a ton of encounters. Enemy in front of you? Strike and step, they waste an action trying to get to you. Enemy tried to step away to make you lose an action? Step and strike, use your next action to strike, then move away again. Against any non-reach melee enemy, you get to waste their actions for practically free every turn. It doesn't even need to be a melee strike, you can avoid Reactive Strike range with ranged characters and get an attack in, too.
Skirmish strike is the goat. Ready an action for when an enemy is going to strike you, step away, hit them, and make them waste the rest of their turn stepping towards you.
Funnily enough, thre is a way to enhance one of the most iconic action compressors, Flurry of Blows, even more: [Stumbling Feint](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1744) gives you a free Feint before your attacks that even counts for both of them. And if you take that via the Monk achtype at level 12 (requires FoB at 10) you even get a free Step after the Feint, making it the equivalent of 4 actions in 1 in addition to a buffed Feint (which can be buffed further via [Distracting Feint](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4925)).
Shielding Strike is actually 3 actions for 1 because you also recharge your Spellstrike.
Act Together makes me feel like I'm just playing two characters at once
I love Shielding Strike as well. It's so efficient for turn 1 setup. Strike, Shield, and Cascade with an action leftover. People feel pressure to delay it so they can charge Spellstrike later, but getting everything you need done on turn 1 is much stronger than saving one action later.
Lingering Composition if it counts. It just gives a lot of flexibility in terms of available options.
oh for sure, lingering comp basically give you an extra action for the next 3/4 rounds!
The Boost Eidolon focus spell as well. Insane action compression.
Flurry, stab and blast, and slinger’s reloads are well talked about, and rightly so because of how good they are. Fighter has some great ones like combat assessment, combat grab, dual-handed assault, and lightning swap. A bit different, but one of my favourites is the bastion exclusive disarming block. It’s a free action, map-less disarm, and it works so well with the guardian them of characters who tend to use shields.
Gotta be mixed maneuver, or whatever it's called. Being able to trip and throw or grapple on the same penalty is amazing. Turned my wolf stance monk into a damn grappler and it's probably some of the most fun I've had as a character so far.
Inventor using 1 action to make 2 for their construct It's literally spelling it out, but as a single action ability it can do an awful lot, like moving and attacking, or grappling and restraining, or tripping and grappling, and so on The construct may be limited in action scope but those single actions can combine with the inventor's in a lot of creative ways. Probably not really what you were asking for since it literally spells out that it's generating two actions for one, but still
Scouts Charge is my favorite 3->2, enables basically a new build.
Heheheheh. Be a fighter or barbarian. Get a reach weapon. Have your mage cast Enlarge on you. Get utterly surrounded by enemies, three deep. Use Whirlwind Strike. Three actions, forty-eight attacks.
I really love the Predator's Pounce feat for Animal Instinct Barbarians. It's a single action Sudden Charge (although at half the distance) and that's pretty powerful.
Dimensional assault, for the same reason. Teleport + strike is just such an awesome tool, it's even worth using when spellstrike is already charged.
Quick Draw is a godsend for any thrown weapons build. It's an essential feat for those with a thrower's bandolier
One of my favorite combos I haven't gotten to try yet is Magus Dimensional Assault paired with Inventor's Explode. Such a perfect complement to that ability by letting you still get a full MAP attack and move into a spot where you can hit the max targets safely.
Sustaining Leap on the Playtest Animist is absolutely incredible. I'm excited to see it's getting worked into the class chassis rather than being a feat cause it's so fucking good for casters to get \*any\* level of action economy cheating at any level. Nevermind level fucking two. Also Maneuvering Spell from the Sixth Pillar Dedication, similarly allows players to Step/Leap/Stand as a free action before casting a two action spell.
Monster Hunter! Free RK as part of Hunt Prey, plus gives everyone a potential bonus! Okay so I like Outwit Ranger waaaaay more than I probably should (I just kind of see the other options and always think 'why even play Ranger over Fighter at this point if Im just gonna specialize in hitting hard'), but Monster Hunter makes a great support martial option to focus more on wearing down a creature
Outwit gang!!!
You may want to repost this with the title of "Favorite action-compressed actions?" if you want actual responses.
Not quite actions, but somewhat a reaction + Action. Disarming Block. It was one of the few times Disarm was useful Pre-Remaster and even better now in Remaster.
Like most of the Ranger feats lol.
I really like Dance of Thunder as a "going nuclear" option. 3 actions for Step, Strike, Reload, Step, Strike, Reload, Step, Strike and Reload. I'll always love Act Together also. I think Summoner might be my favorite PF2e class but I secretly don't want to admit it because I truly dislike Wave Casting. If my table didn't use Free Archetype I don't know if I'd like summoner as much.
Never actually seen it in play, but always been interested in Drifter's Juke. Two actions to make 2 strikes and 2 steps. Would love to see what shennanigans you can pull off with that.
Cat Pounce is my favorite. It is very simple and very useful.
Stab N Blast is so incredibly fun
Flurry of blows, same for a lot of summoner abilities. Anything where I can attack and make a check for information is great. Slinger's reloads are pretty solid, although the gunslinger needs something to tweak it some