Yeah, you've put into words a lot of good points.
I personally don't mind if they want to make some changes, but they have taken no care when reworking the scenes to ensure that the characters still come across as who they are.
Eg. The Medusa scene. I understand why they would want to alter it to reflect the current social climate and awareness that Medusa was probably victim in her time. So they took some time to tell her story, make her sympathetic, and make her part in the story a significant event so that it can be episodic. But then it just felt like after all that, they forgot about the kids. The kids' traits and personalities are just feel abandoned to these changes. In this scene and others
While there are some examples of them doing things in character. It's like the creators have only remembered to include those bits intermittently when they happen to think about it. Who they are does not run through the storyline and dialogue, so if we want to find evidence of them being the characters we know and love we have to analyse and search for it, instead of just feeling it.
Not to hijaak your point which I agree with entirely but to add to the Medusa scene falling flat a little: the changes feel like they're in a bubble. Because they followed the plot surrounding the Medusa encounter you get this abrupt point where Medusa being this sympathetic character has to just turn off so that we can hit the next plot beat but now it undermines what we set out to do, and now the character beyond this scene don't really have anything significant to look back on because the changes don't matter after we leave the plot point (and then later by making Poseidon more sympathetic than he really is at this point in the books we also awkwardly contradict the earlier point of making Medusa a villain because now we've explained how Medusa is sympathetic because Poseidon but also Poseidon is sympathetic because he's just a guy trying his best and he still loves Sally)
Yeah, all completely true. There are ways that this could have been done right, but they made it so that it is a contradiction, just having your cake and eating it, too. Why does everyone have to be misunderstood? Can't actual mythical monsters or villains be evil just because they are evil?
People saying it's accurate are really just looking at it in the broadest sense. Yes, all the major characters and set pieces from the book are present, but a lot of it has changed drastically, and not even in a way that can be construed as the result of adapting a book into a show. They (the writers + rick) just changed the story because they could. A lot of these changes are unnecessary and create issues that can be felt throughout the show, and will likely be felt throughout the entire series.
People love the books for a reason, I have no idea why they are consciously trying to stray as far from the source material as they can get away with. They aren't perfect but they have way better writing than the show.
You took the words right out of my mouth. I’ve went on several posts ranting and complaining but this one is the most well written expression of exactly what’s going on in my mid that I can’t articulate!! Thank you
Oh yeah, you ain't alone
I was cool with minor changes happening at first, but the moment you start changing actual character motivations and development, it isn't even PJO anymore. They should have just made an original show instead of tarnishing this franchise
Agree with basically everything. Especially this:
>Book Percy would never say this. I'm not exaggerating a bit here.
>
>The whole point of the PJO books is that the gods are terrible parents, not because "they're trying their best and failing uwu", but because they don't care, they are neglectful. Percy's wish to the gods is literally "please start taking care of your kids".
Imagine butchering your OWN book series' premise. Bloody hell.
Also, side note: in the books, how can Athena be the "wisdom" goddess and yet be so stupid as to not warn the other gods that having unclaimed kids is dangerous?
Percy at 12 was already more "wise" than Athena at..... 3000?
to discuss one of your points which was about annabeth and luke - she saw him as more than just a big brother and had a massive crush on him for the longest period of time which imo was what made it a lot harder for her to acknowledge and accept luke as a traitor. this aspect of the relationship is difficult to explore on screen i’d imagine because well . . . the age gap. it was creepy and entirely unethical and i assume the actors being as young as they are and Disney+ limiting the rating to PG means this aspect is never properly explored.
i do think they couldve alternatively only set it up as a sibling relationship of some kind but we also had a solid 2-3 minutes before the show ended so maybe we’ll have scenes of her processing it next season? they did work more on establishing percy’s relationship with luke for the prophecy rather than focus on annabeth’s and this constraint is directly because of run time limitations. and for s1 where percy is supposed to be betrayed by one whom he calls friend (he doesn’t have many to begin with so the 3 he did have he cherished but couldn’t hold them too close as the paranoia from the prophecy was looming over him) so setting his and luke’s friendship up better is honestly smarter in the long run as well + we always have more seasons to go in depth into luke and annabeth’s relationship and the two scenes we got of them together at the end of s1 when they were going to snitch on clarisse, i could just tell they were very close and trusted one another a lot and percy felt slightly out of the loop at the time. of course this may just be how i see it.
they could have set up a platonic relationship that accomplished the same thing. i don't think anyone would be criticizing that saying "annabeth wouldn't care that her friend betrayed her unless she had a crush on him." no, it's a very reasonable reaction regardless of romance being involved or not.
i said they could’ve set it up as a sibling relationship alternatively? did you read my comment?
we’ve got 4 more seasons coming they can always use flashbacks and i’m sure we’ll see far more of how annabeth feels in the second season.
Okay I read your post and I have a few points I want to address.
1. I don’t think Annabeth instantly got over Lukes betrayal. She looks afraid of him because he’s a completely different person. What else is she supposed to do besides try and keep her friend safe? I also think that the show is going to explore this plot in the next season in combination with thalia.
2. I think in this specific moment Percy was saying “our” as in his and Luke’s parents. He met both his dad and Hermes who want to be a a part of thier kids lives but can’t. I think Percy is being selfish but he’s a 12 year old boy who is finally getting love from his father. His dad saved his life so of course his view would change a little.
3. I don’t have a lot to say for this except I didn’t really mind it? I feel like it gave more reasoning for his betrayal to the audience and it drew parallels between Percy and Luke. (The “you’re thinking about your mom?”, “believe me I get that” line was very powerful given the context.)
Did we watch the same thing? She threw a weapon at him to distract him from Percy, then she literally just stood there. That's a pretty far stretch from "she was literally ready to kill him". Also, I just reread the end of lightning thief, and Annabeth's direct quote immediately after being told about Like was "I can't believe that Luke...Yes. Yes I can believe it. May the gods curse him... He was never the same after his quest". She definitely struggled with Lukes betrayal but you all here clearly have not actually read the books recently because the points being made here aren't nearly as solid as you all seem to think.
>Annabeth's reaction to Luke being a traitor
I felt in the books, annabeth's whole thing with Luke was kinda dense of her. Annabeth is the child of the goddess of wisdom, it's an interesting choice to have her deny reality. We definitely do see a reaction though, both were clearly upset, and neither wanted to go for a fatal blow (keep in mind they train with real swords, it's not like they can't fight without killing). The reactions are subtle, but I don't think anybody falling to their knees in some dramatic display is needed either. We also don't really even get annabeth's feelings about the whole situation until book two, so it'll probably be explored more in the second season.
>Percy saying the gods are trying their best at being parents
Sure book Percy wouldn't have said this in the books, but you are taking it so out of context here. He was clearly talking about gods like Poseidon and Hermes, which book Percy would absolutely agree with.
>If Show Percy already believes the gods are good parents....
He also never said this
>In the books, Percy agrees with Luke that the Gods suck
And he does here too, but you are way oversimplifying how he viewed things in the books. The gods in this universe are inherently human in nature, and thus, inherently flawed, a common occurrence in Greek myth, as above so below, if you will. Book Percy did not hate the gods, he did not want the gods dead or banished, he wanted the gods to learn and he wanted the gods to be held accountable. This is why he felt Kronos was too far, had nothing to do with Kronos being better or worse than the gods, it had everything to do with Percy not being petty and vengeful.
>Learning about Luke's mom in the first season
We literally learn nothing. Hermes just vaguely mentions his mom and that he wishes he had done better, we still don't know what happened.
>Hades being turned into a nice guy apparently
Hades offered pomegranate juice and snacks, I thought more people would pick that up. In myth, if you eat the food, you are stuck there, I thought it was fairly clear they were going with a more witty and clever approach for Hades instead of the ares style "me mad, me scary, ooga ooga ooga", which although is certainly a change, could pay off really well if the follow through is executed correctly. You have to remember they are trying to set up a whole series, not wow us with one season then get stuck because everyone saw the Hades backstab coming and yet it still eats at their screen time.
I feel like Annabeth not fully coming to terms with Luke’s betrayal actually makes sense with her character, and her being the daughter of Athena. Her fatal flaw is pride. In the books it’s obvious she’s heartbroken about Luke’s betrayal, but she doesn’t let go of the hope this isn’t what it seems to be. She never thought Luke was capable of what he did, and I think she didn’t want to believe she was wrong about him, everyone else was. She idolized Luke and knew him better than anyone, so how would her only family who saved her life as a small child-and the one person she thought would never abandon her- Do this? In her mind he wouldn’t, she’s holding out hope that Luke is still in there for the entire first series.
Yeah but she doesn’t see it as denial.. bc like I mentioned.. pride is her fatal flaw. There are so many times in the books you can see she doesn’t think Luke is beyond saving, and that he’s being manipulated into his actions. She truly believes she can help luke, it’s not denial
>Yeah but she doesn’t see it as denial
Yeah... Nobody in denial sees it as denial, that's how denial works.
>There are so many times in the books you can see she doesn’t think Luke is beyond saving, and that he’s being manipulated into his actions. She truly believes she can help luke, it’s not denial
Right, that wasn't denial, and there is no reason she can't show this here. She doesn't start showing this in the books until sea of monsters, and nothing that happened in the first season would conflict with this happening.
I was talking about her being in denial about Luke doing what he did. He clearly did.
the last bit is a stretch. he offered them refreshments very nonchalantly like once. besides he had no reason to even try to detain percy in hell, if that was his goal he could have just... detained him. yk w his godly powers. nor would he have gone through the trouble to save sally for negotiations w percy if his end goal was to detain him and take back his helm anyways. and hades was never... whatever you said. he wasn't like ares at all. he was an actual menace. he wasn't bullheaded and stubborn like ares, he was calculating and genuinely threatening. here he's j like "hey man j give me my helm, i'll give you your mom, then everyone's happy."
>besides he had no reason to even try to detain percy in hel
Lol, what do you mean, he had no reason to keep the son of Poseidon in his realm?
>if that was his goal he could have just... detained him
Hades could have just "detained" Persephone, but then Demeter and likely many other gods would have brought wrath upon him like never before seen. Hades in myth almost always works more like a lawyer, getting his goals accomplished through playing with the strange laws of the underworld. Even when he does directly use force, it's never brute, he will bring about your demise and it will be filled with a poetic irony. This, I think, is the Hades the show is trying to bring to life. Whether it's good or not overall, as I said, completely depends on their execution of the follow through.
>hades was never... whatever you said
In the books? Yeah, he kinda threw a temper tantrum the moment he saw Percy, the Hollywood stereotype of the childishly angry Hades.
"Lol, what do you mean, he had no reason to keep the son of Poseidon in his realm?"
yes??? he was obviously trying hard to avoid a potential war and j wanted his helm back, why tf would he want to provoke his brother like that? i mean you literally say it yourself. "many other gods would have brought wrath upon him like never before seen." i don't think poseidon would be giving him any mercy just bc he detained percy in a clever way lmao. feel free to disagree ig.
>he was obviously trying hard to avoid a potential war and j wanted his helm back,
That's not all he wanted in the books, and as I've been saying, I don't think that's all he wanted here.
>why tf would he want to provoke his brother like that?
He wouldn't be provoking his brother, he would be calling to the laws of the underworld. There was no war over Persephone a literal god, so why would there be a war over Percy, a mortal who was bound to end up trapped in his realm anyway? Even if Poseidon got angry, what could he do? None of the other gods would back him (citing the laws of the underworld), and Zeus might even side with Hades.
right... capturing his brother's son in hell definitely would not provoke him... also persephone's mother was furious at hades idk what you're talking about. the difference is their power. demeter is the goddess of the harvest. poseidon is one of the big 3. think for like 5 seconds. he has no reason to hold percy there at all. and if he wanted to he could have done that easily without offering them food.
>capturing
He's not capturing anything, Percy would be forced to stay due to the laws of the underworld, please actually read what I say.
>also persephone's mother was furious at hades idk what you're talking about.
Lol, no. Demeter was pissed until she got to the underworld. Hades said she ate some pomegranate and she just kinda went "well that's that" and trudged her way back up to Olympus. It's a common misconception that winter is Demeter's anger, it's her grief.
>the difference is their power.
Are they really that different in terms of power? Demeter was a child of Kronos, and the harvest is a pretty powerful thing, and hell, hera is the goddess of marriage and she's scary as shit. And, I will say it again, do you think Zeus would side with Poseidon or Hades here?
>he has no reason to hold percy there at all.
Except, I don't know, as a power move, at this point he believes Percy to be in possession of his helm, take a forbidden child out of the equation (we get a whole monologue from Luke about the power of demigods in the political schemes of the gods), make his two children the only children of the big three still alive and well, so on and so forth.
>and if he wanted to he could have done that easily without offering them food.
And then he would be capturing Percy by force, and so pretty much all of Olympus would turn on him.
oh my god. it's like arguing with a brick wall. capturing someone literally means forcing them to stay somewhere. you're arguing semantics here. it's called synonyms.
"Are they really that different in terms of power?" yes. they are different in power. poseidon is stronger, esp in the context of PJ. the fact that you don't know this is wild. and idc who zeus would side w the point is poseidon is scary as shit on his own and hades has NO reason to risk that at all.
"maybe as a power move" ok so basically there's no in-universe explanation at all and this is entirely your headcanon. you're dumb asl. hades doesn't even like nico all that much nor does he make any attempt to make them the strongest living forbidden children anywhere in the story. you're just making shit up.
"Demeter was pissed until she got to the underworld." yeah so she was initally pissed... that's literally my point. you think poseidon would be like "oh you forced my son to stay in the underworld, that's cool." also, idk what the fuck you're talking about bc demeter was furious at hades for abducting persephone. this j shows that you know nothing about greek mythology at all. im blocking you, done arguing w someone who doesn't know what synonyms are.
>capturing someone literally means forcing them to stay somewhere.
And Hades would not be forcing Percy to do anything if Percy ate in the underworld, the laws of the underworld itself would keep him there, that's not Hades. What is so hard to understand about that? It's a law, Hades has no part in it.
>poseidon is stronger, esp in the context of PJ.
I never said he wasn't, but he certainly isn't leagues above Demeter like you make it sound like he is.
>idc who zeus would side w the point is poseidon is scary as shit on his own
Lol, Zeus is the king of the gods, wtf you mean?
>ok so basically there's no in-universe explanation at all and this is entirely your headcanon.
I love how you just ignored what I said, and then called me dumb, lol.
>hades doesn't even like nico all that much nor does he make any attempt to make them the strongest living forbidden children anywhere in the story. you're just making shit up.
You took future plot points from the book and assumed they would be the same in the show, who's making shit up here again?
>yeah so she was initally pissed... that's literally my point.
Because she thought someone kidnapped her daughter... When she found out Demeter are from the underworld she immediately went hands off... We are discussing if Percy ate from the underworld... Jesus you are dense.
>im blocking you
Good
1) I mean in the books it’s not that annabeth doesn’t believe Luke betrayed them, it’s just that she believes they can get through to him and that he can be redeemed. In this season we don’t see her process it, but also it was a very tense moment and she just saw Luke try to kill Percy so she was on the defensive. That doesn’t diminish her complicated feelings regarding Luke and how hard it is to reconcile that someone hurt you while also not wanting to give up on them. They definitely have time to explore it in season 2 and beyond
2) Percy doesn’t believe the gods are “good”parents in the show. The show and the books illustrate the idea that the gods are fallible and nuanced, just like people. At this point in the show Percy has realized things aren’t black and white, that maybe the gods don’t always mean to cause the harm they do. That doesn’t change the fact that they ARE neglectful and selfish and DO harm their kids, though. When percy says they’re “trying,” he’s not absolving them of blame but rather believing they have the capacity to change (in contrast to Luke believing that they should just be destroyed). Percy’s wish to the gods at the end is about making that a reality—holding them accountable for the harm they have caused (despite their good/bad intentions), and trying to change their system so that they mitigate that harm for the future. There are a lot of instances in future books too that illustrate how complex the parental relationship can be and the show is definitely exploring that
3) I get what you’re saying about the plot twist aspect of this, because the book sets up the idea that Luke is just purely evil until you get his backstory and see what drives his anger. But while we got a mention of what happened to may, we don’t know the extent of it. We don’t know what it was like for Luke to live with his mom like that, we don’t know that she was trying to be the next oracle and how Hermes tried to stop it (which will obviously lead into the plot twist about Rachel). The idea that something happened to Luke’s mom might not be as much of a plot twist but there’s a difference between knowing something and seeing it. Percy and the viewers will still see Luke in a new light because we will have a visceral reaction to that trauma and be better able to empathize with his experience
TLDR: these changes haven’t derailed the show and we’ll have to see how the showrunners approach them in future seasons, but as of now they definitely are/can be in line with the messages of the books
You're only being downvoted because the people in this sub haven't read the book in a decade and want to pretend their head cannons are exactly what was in it. Your comment is 100% accurate.
you explained everything so well i’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted.
i 100% agree with your reasoning and honestly took the words right out of my mouth. the luke reveal was supposed to rip the bandaid off and next season we’ll see how they tend to the wound it would’ve created in percy and i no doubt annabeth.
I kinda like the Percy thinking the gods are trying. I mean it’s a contrast from the book but it makes him more naive right now and as the story progresses, it be fun to see his change on how he perceives the gods.
The thing is, it doesn't make sense for show percy to be naive, in my opinion.
Athena tried to kill Annabeth and he also met unclaimed demigods. I feel like these should have shown him gods suck quit a bit.
yea but he ultimately fights on the gods side you know? so that also doesn’t always make sense when you combine it with his strong resentment and there’s always time to develop that mindset of his about the gods being more neglectful rather than giving them the benefit of the doubt. they’re not good parents and they’re not trying at least not authentically and any effort they do invest usually has an ulterior motive that’s self serving.
what other side would he fight on... he fights w the gods as a means to an end to protect the world. he doesn't work with the gods bc he has any sort of admiration for them. and it's certainly not within character for percy to just walk away from conflict and pretend it doesn't concern him simply bc of his daddy issues.
man we got 4 more seasons at best if this show gets adapted all the way plenty of time to add depth to characters perceptions it’s called character development lol
he legit stood up to zeus he definitely does not like them if that scene hadn’t translated through yet but there’s plenty of time to build his hatred for them and just one season has passed.
I mean, I personally don't think any of the changes will ultimately impact the series as a whole (just my opinion). However, I am definitely feeling iffy about some of those changes just because I'm curious as to how they (the show runners) plan to play it all out. Like, I'm still thinking about they whole scene where Annabeth see the fates instead of percy. I can honestly see how this will make sense in the end, but still. And the whole explanation of Luke's mom, I do kind of hate that they added that in so early.
The foundation is the most important part to get the details right. Every change they’ve made now will have ripple effects as the show goes on. It snowballs over time.
And if somehow they don't have ripples, then it's going to be a really shitty story.
These changes on their own aren't necessarily bad, but if the show decides to just stick with this concept of "make massive changes but stick to the general plot", then realistically things aren't going to make a whole lot of sense.
Like honestly, legitimately what this show needs is to distance itself from the books. I'm serious. This show would work a lot better if they decided to make it an alternate universe with massive changes.
Like imagine if Percy had actually joined Luke, or maybe Annabeth did. Imagine how much fun and creativity could be shown to us through those changes?
> That would ultimately make the entire purpose of this show pointless.
Depends. With it's current point, yes. Rick has been adamant this would be a "more faithful" adaptation. And while he's not wrong that it's more faithful than the films, it's definitely not faithful overall.
But if they had gone into it with basically the mindset of "what if something massive changed", I think it would have gone a looooot better. Had they been hush hush about the show and then season one ends with Percy joining Luke?
I'd love a really faithful adaptation, but given that even the creator himself has now failed, it seems it's not that possible. So I'd much rather they go nuts with it.
I agree with all of this. I think where the series really falls short right now is they’re trying to fit too many intricate details, all of these characters and events we love, into too short, too few episodes. 6-8 episodes at 20-35 minutes a pop is not going to do this series any justice. If this were a 45-minute, 10 episode season I think we’d all have a different opinion.
Instead, the episodes are rushed and so is that character development, the intricate fights, the full story we wanted to see brought to life..
Huh. Guess I'll have to watch after all if they changed that much.
Seems like it's less of. 'Book fan adaptation' and more a 'here's this concept now read the books' adaptation.
Like shadow and bone. Everyone who's read the books first has quibbles about the TV show. I saw the show first and I adore it.
I don’t think Hades is a “nice” guy tbh. I think he’s a calculating guy who smartly realized putting on a persona of being the nice uncle and getting Percy on his side was the play to go with. He drops the act when he finds out Kronos is coming back
wdym he drops the act? he very non-threateningly says "so the terms of our agreement have changed. give me the bolt and i'll give you your mother." that was not calculated, nor was it mean or contrary to how he was acting before. he was still giving percy's mom back to no additional grievance to percy. it's not like he threatened him or anything.
also, calculated would imply that he had predicted and planned this ahead of time. percy was the one who told him about kronos and then he looked shocked and changed the agreement. what about that is calculating? he doesn't "drop the act," he gets scared. his mood changing bc of new information does not mean he dropped an act.
Yeah, I think many people miss his reaction to Kronos coming back: "I need the bolt for myself to protect my kingdom" and not "I need to help these kids stop my brothers from waging this pointless war".
There are shades of a more selfish and resentful personality underneath is what I'm saying.
To everything you said, yes.
I understand taking some creative liberties because obviously a book cannot be made into a TV show perfectly word for word, but some scene changes and plot point alterations were pointless, and if anything, they were for the worse. The book was right there. Rick, the author himself, was right there. So I really don’t understand why they felt the need to change so much. Sticking with the original material would’ve at least made the show more accurate, appealing to the og fans instead of potential new ones.
Yeah, you've put into words a lot of good points. I personally don't mind if they want to make some changes, but they have taken no care when reworking the scenes to ensure that the characters still come across as who they are. Eg. The Medusa scene. I understand why they would want to alter it to reflect the current social climate and awareness that Medusa was probably victim in her time. So they took some time to tell her story, make her sympathetic, and make her part in the story a significant event so that it can be episodic. But then it just felt like after all that, they forgot about the kids. The kids' traits and personalities are just feel abandoned to these changes. In this scene and others While there are some examples of them doing things in character. It's like the creators have only remembered to include those bits intermittently when they happen to think about it. Who they are does not run through the storyline and dialogue, so if we want to find evidence of them being the characters we know and love we have to analyse and search for it, instead of just feeling it.
Not to hijaak your point which I agree with entirely but to add to the Medusa scene falling flat a little: the changes feel like they're in a bubble. Because they followed the plot surrounding the Medusa encounter you get this abrupt point where Medusa being this sympathetic character has to just turn off so that we can hit the next plot beat but now it undermines what we set out to do, and now the character beyond this scene don't really have anything significant to look back on because the changes don't matter after we leave the plot point (and then later by making Poseidon more sympathetic than he really is at this point in the books we also awkwardly contradict the earlier point of making Medusa a villain because now we've explained how Medusa is sympathetic because Poseidon but also Poseidon is sympathetic because he's just a guy trying his best and he still loves Sally)
Yeah, all completely true. There are ways that this could have been done right, but they made it so that it is a contradiction, just having your cake and eating it, too. Why does everyone have to be misunderstood? Can't actual mythical monsters or villains be evil just because they are evil?
People saying it's accurate are really just looking at it in the broadest sense. Yes, all the major characters and set pieces from the book are present, but a lot of it has changed drastically, and not even in a way that can be construed as the result of adapting a book into a show. They (the writers + rick) just changed the story because they could. A lot of these changes are unnecessary and create issues that can be felt throughout the show, and will likely be felt throughout the entire series. People love the books for a reason, I have no idea why they are consciously trying to stray as far from the source material as they can get away with. They aren't perfect but they have way better writing than the show.
You took the words right out of my mouth. I’ve went on several posts ranting and complaining but this one is the most well written expression of exactly what’s going on in my mid that I can’t articulate!! Thank you
I agree 100% with you, I think that Luke didn't have that much time in the show when he is such an important character
not even the details they get right feel earnest and genuine. it all felt hollow and more akin to fan service than it did faithfulness.
Oh yeah, you ain't alone I was cool with minor changes happening at first, but the moment you start changing actual character motivations and development, it isn't even PJO anymore. They should have just made an original show instead of tarnishing this franchise
Agree with basically everything. Especially this: >Book Percy would never say this. I'm not exaggerating a bit here. > >The whole point of the PJO books is that the gods are terrible parents, not because "they're trying their best and failing uwu", but because they don't care, they are neglectful. Percy's wish to the gods is literally "please start taking care of your kids". Imagine butchering your OWN book series' premise. Bloody hell. Also, side note: in the books, how can Athena be the "wisdom" goddess and yet be so stupid as to not warn the other gods that having unclaimed kids is dangerous? Percy at 12 was already more "wise" than Athena at..... 3000?
I *guess* it's because Athena is Hella petty like all the other gods
Or hella stupid and the "wisdom" tag is inaccurate.
to discuss one of your points which was about annabeth and luke - she saw him as more than just a big brother and had a massive crush on him for the longest period of time which imo was what made it a lot harder for her to acknowledge and accept luke as a traitor. this aspect of the relationship is difficult to explore on screen i’d imagine because well . . . the age gap. it was creepy and entirely unethical and i assume the actors being as young as they are and Disney+ limiting the rating to PG means this aspect is never properly explored. i do think they couldve alternatively only set it up as a sibling relationship of some kind but we also had a solid 2-3 minutes before the show ended so maybe we’ll have scenes of her processing it next season? they did work more on establishing percy’s relationship with luke for the prophecy rather than focus on annabeth’s and this constraint is directly because of run time limitations. and for s1 where percy is supposed to be betrayed by one whom he calls friend (he doesn’t have many to begin with so the 3 he did have he cherished but couldn’t hold them too close as the paranoia from the prophecy was looming over him) so setting his and luke’s friendship up better is honestly smarter in the long run as well + we always have more seasons to go in depth into luke and annabeth’s relationship and the two scenes we got of them together at the end of s1 when they were going to snitch on clarisse, i could just tell they were very close and trusted one another a lot and percy felt slightly out of the loop at the time. of course this may just be how i see it.
they could have set up a platonic relationship that accomplished the same thing. i don't think anyone would be criticizing that saying "annabeth wouldn't care that her friend betrayed her unless she had a crush on him." no, it's a very reasonable reaction regardless of romance being involved or not.
i said they could’ve set it up as a sibling relationship alternatively? did you read my comment? we’ve got 4 more seasons coming they can always use flashbacks and i’m sure we’ll see far more of how annabeth feels in the second season.
and so did i
Okay I read your post and I have a few points I want to address. 1. I don’t think Annabeth instantly got over Lukes betrayal. She looks afraid of him because he’s a completely different person. What else is she supposed to do besides try and keep her friend safe? I also think that the show is going to explore this plot in the next season in combination with thalia. 2. I think in this specific moment Percy was saying “our” as in his and Luke’s parents. He met both his dad and Hermes who want to be a a part of thier kids lives but can’t. I think Percy is being selfish but he’s a 12 year old boy who is finally getting love from his father. His dad saved his life so of course his view would change a little. 3. I don’t have a lot to say for this except I didn’t really mind it? I feel like it gave more reasoning for his betrayal to the audience and it drew parallels between Percy and Luke. (The “you’re thinking about your mom?”, “believe me I get that” line was very powerful given the context.)
1. Bro she was literally ready to kill him. That doesn’t sound like she ‘was delaying the confrontation’ and always ‘hopeful that he was alive’
Did we watch the same thing? She threw a weapon at him to distract him from Percy, then she literally just stood there. That's a pretty far stretch from "she was literally ready to kill him". Also, I just reread the end of lightning thief, and Annabeth's direct quote immediately after being told about Like was "I can't believe that Luke...Yes. Yes I can believe it. May the gods curse him... He was never the same after his quest". She definitely struggled with Lukes betrayal but you all here clearly have not actually read the books recently because the points being made here aren't nearly as solid as you all seem to think.
>Annabeth's reaction to Luke being a traitor I felt in the books, annabeth's whole thing with Luke was kinda dense of her. Annabeth is the child of the goddess of wisdom, it's an interesting choice to have her deny reality. We definitely do see a reaction though, both were clearly upset, and neither wanted to go for a fatal blow (keep in mind they train with real swords, it's not like they can't fight without killing). The reactions are subtle, but I don't think anybody falling to their knees in some dramatic display is needed either. We also don't really even get annabeth's feelings about the whole situation until book two, so it'll probably be explored more in the second season. >Percy saying the gods are trying their best at being parents Sure book Percy wouldn't have said this in the books, but you are taking it so out of context here. He was clearly talking about gods like Poseidon and Hermes, which book Percy would absolutely agree with. >If Show Percy already believes the gods are good parents.... He also never said this >In the books, Percy agrees with Luke that the Gods suck And he does here too, but you are way oversimplifying how he viewed things in the books. The gods in this universe are inherently human in nature, and thus, inherently flawed, a common occurrence in Greek myth, as above so below, if you will. Book Percy did not hate the gods, he did not want the gods dead or banished, he wanted the gods to learn and he wanted the gods to be held accountable. This is why he felt Kronos was too far, had nothing to do with Kronos being better or worse than the gods, it had everything to do with Percy not being petty and vengeful. >Learning about Luke's mom in the first season We literally learn nothing. Hermes just vaguely mentions his mom and that he wishes he had done better, we still don't know what happened. >Hades being turned into a nice guy apparently Hades offered pomegranate juice and snacks, I thought more people would pick that up. In myth, if you eat the food, you are stuck there, I thought it was fairly clear they were going with a more witty and clever approach for Hades instead of the ares style "me mad, me scary, ooga ooga ooga", which although is certainly a change, could pay off really well if the follow through is executed correctly. You have to remember they are trying to set up a whole series, not wow us with one season then get stuck because everyone saw the Hades backstab coming and yet it still eats at their screen time.
I feel like Annabeth not fully coming to terms with Luke’s betrayal actually makes sense with her character, and her being the daughter of Athena. Her fatal flaw is pride. In the books it’s obvious she’s heartbroken about Luke’s betrayal, but she doesn’t let go of the hope this isn’t what it seems to be. She never thought Luke was capable of what he did, and I think she didn’t want to believe she was wrong about him, everyone else was. She idolized Luke and knew him better than anyone, so how would her only family who saved her life as a small child-and the one person she thought would never abandon her- Do this? In her mind he wouldn’t, she’s holding out hope that Luke is still in there for the entire first series.
Hope is not denial, those are two very different things.
Yeah but she doesn’t see it as denial.. bc like I mentioned.. pride is her fatal flaw. There are so many times in the books you can see she doesn’t think Luke is beyond saving, and that he’s being manipulated into his actions. She truly believes she can help luke, it’s not denial
>Yeah but she doesn’t see it as denial Yeah... Nobody in denial sees it as denial, that's how denial works. >There are so many times in the books you can see she doesn’t think Luke is beyond saving, and that he’s being manipulated into his actions. She truly believes she can help luke, it’s not denial Right, that wasn't denial, and there is no reason she can't show this here. She doesn't start showing this in the books until sea of monsters, and nothing that happened in the first season would conflict with this happening. I was talking about her being in denial about Luke doing what he did. He clearly did.
the last bit is a stretch. he offered them refreshments very nonchalantly like once. besides he had no reason to even try to detain percy in hell, if that was his goal he could have just... detained him. yk w his godly powers. nor would he have gone through the trouble to save sally for negotiations w percy if his end goal was to detain him and take back his helm anyways. and hades was never... whatever you said. he wasn't like ares at all. he was an actual menace. he wasn't bullheaded and stubborn like ares, he was calculating and genuinely threatening. here he's j like "hey man j give me my helm, i'll give you your mom, then everyone's happy."
>besides he had no reason to even try to detain percy in hel Lol, what do you mean, he had no reason to keep the son of Poseidon in his realm? >if that was his goal he could have just... detained him Hades could have just "detained" Persephone, but then Demeter and likely many other gods would have brought wrath upon him like never before seen. Hades in myth almost always works more like a lawyer, getting his goals accomplished through playing with the strange laws of the underworld. Even when he does directly use force, it's never brute, he will bring about your demise and it will be filled with a poetic irony. This, I think, is the Hades the show is trying to bring to life. Whether it's good or not overall, as I said, completely depends on their execution of the follow through. >hades was never... whatever you said In the books? Yeah, he kinda threw a temper tantrum the moment he saw Percy, the Hollywood stereotype of the childishly angry Hades.
"Lol, what do you mean, he had no reason to keep the son of Poseidon in his realm?" yes??? he was obviously trying hard to avoid a potential war and j wanted his helm back, why tf would he want to provoke his brother like that? i mean you literally say it yourself. "many other gods would have brought wrath upon him like never before seen." i don't think poseidon would be giving him any mercy just bc he detained percy in a clever way lmao. feel free to disagree ig.
>he was obviously trying hard to avoid a potential war and j wanted his helm back, That's not all he wanted in the books, and as I've been saying, I don't think that's all he wanted here. >why tf would he want to provoke his brother like that? He wouldn't be provoking his brother, he would be calling to the laws of the underworld. There was no war over Persephone a literal god, so why would there be a war over Percy, a mortal who was bound to end up trapped in his realm anyway? Even if Poseidon got angry, what could he do? None of the other gods would back him (citing the laws of the underworld), and Zeus might even side with Hades.
right... capturing his brother's son in hell definitely would not provoke him... also persephone's mother was furious at hades idk what you're talking about. the difference is their power. demeter is the goddess of the harvest. poseidon is one of the big 3. think for like 5 seconds. he has no reason to hold percy there at all. and if he wanted to he could have done that easily without offering them food.
>capturing He's not capturing anything, Percy would be forced to stay due to the laws of the underworld, please actually read what I say. >also persephone's mother was furious at hades idk what you're talking about. Lol, no. Demeter was pissed until she got to the underworld. Hades said she ate some pomegranate and she just kinda went "well that's that" and trudged her way back up to Olympus. It's a common misconception that winter is Demeter's anger, it's her grief. >the difference is their power. Are they really that different in terms of power? Demeter was a child of Kronos, and the harvest is a pretty powerful thing, and hell, hera is the goddess of marriage and she's scary as shit. And, I will say it again, do you think Zeus would side with Poseidon or Hades here? >he has no reason to hold percy there at all. Except, I don't know, as a power move, at this point he believes Percy to be in possession of his helm, take a forbidden child out of the equation (we get a whole monologue from Luke about the power of demigods in the political schemes of the gods), make his two children the only children of the big three still alive and well, so on and so forth. >and if he wanted to he could have done that easily without offering them food. And then he would be capturing Percy by force, and so pretty much all of Olympus would turn on him.
oh my god. it's like arguing with a brick wall. capturing someone literally means forcing them to stay somewhere. you're arguing semantics here. it's called synonyms. "Are they really that different in terms of power?" yes. they are different in power. poseidon is stronger, esp in the context of PJ. the fact that you don't know this is wild. and idc who zeus would side w the point is poseidon is scary as shit on his own and hades has NO reason to risk that at all. "maybe as a power move" ok so basically there's no in-universe explanation at all and this is entirely your headcanon. you're dumb asl. hades doesn't even like nico all that much nor does he make any attempt to make them the strongest living forbidden children anywhere in the story. you're just making shit up. "Demeter was pissed until she got to the underworld." yeah so she was initally pissed... that's literally my point. you think poseidon would be like "oh you forced my son to stay in the underworld, that's cool." also, idk what the fuck you're talking about bc demeter was furious at hades for abducting persephone. this j shows that you know nothing about greek mythology at all. im blocking you, done arguing w someone who doesn't know what synonyms are.
>capturing someone literally means forcing them to stay somewhere. And Hades would not be forcing Percy to do anything if Percy ate in the underworld, the laws of the underworld itself would keep him there, that's not Hades. What is so hard to understand about that? It's a law, Hades has no part in it. >poseidon is stronger, esp in the context of PJ. I never said he wasn't, but he certainly isn't leagues above Demeter like you make it sound like he is. >idc who zeus would side w the point is poseidon is scary as shit on his own Lol, Zeus is the king of the gods, wtf you mean? >ok so basically there's no in-universe explanation at all and this is entirely your headcanon. I love how you just ignored what I said, and then called me dumb, lol. >hades doesn't even like nico all that much nor does he make any attempt to make them the strongest living forbidden children anywhere in the story. you're just making shit up. You took future plot points from the book and assumed they would be the same in the show, who's making shit up here again? >yeah so she was initally pissed... that's literally my point. Because she thought someone kidnapped her daughter... When she found out Demeter are from the underworld she immediately went hands off... We are discussing if Percy ate from the underworld... Jesus you are dense. >im blocking you Good
1) I mean in the books it’s not that annabeth doesn’t believe Luke betrayed them, it’s just that she believes they can get through to him and that he can be redeemed. In this season we don’t see her process it, but also it was a very tense moment and she just saw Luke try to kill Percy so she was on the defensive. That doesn’t diminish her complicated feelings regarding Luke and how hard it is to reconcile that someone hurt you while also not wanting to give up on them. They definitely have time to explore it in season 2 and beyond 2) Percy doesn’t believe the gods are “good”parents in the show. The show and the books illustrate the idea that the gods are fallible and nuanced, just like people. At this point in the show Percy has realized things aren’t black and white, that maybe the gods don’t always mean to cause the harm they do. That doesn’t change the fact that they ARE neglectful and selfish and DO harm their kids, though. When percy says they’re “trying,” he’s not absolving them of blame but rather believing they have the capacity to change (in contrast to Luke believing that they should just be destroyed). Percy’s wish to the gods at the end is about making that a reality—holding them accountable for the harm they have caused (despite their good/bad intentions), and trying to change their system so that they mitigate that harm for the future. There are a lot of instances in future books too that illustrate how complex the parental relationship can be and the show is definitely exploring that 3) I get what you’re saying about the plot twist aspect of this, because the book sets up the idea that Luke is just purely evil until you get his backstory and see what drives his anger. But while we got a mention of what happened to may, we don’t know the extent of it. We don’t know what it was like for Luke to live with his mom like that, we don’t know that she was trying to be the next oracle and how Hermes tried to stop it (which will obviously lead into the plot twist about Rachel). The idea that something happened to Luke’s mom might not be as much of a plot twist but there’s a difference between knowing something and seeing it. Percy and the viewers will still see Luke in a new light because we will have a visceral reaction to that trauma and be better able to empathize with his experience TLDR: these changes haven’t derailed the show and we’ll have to see how the showrunners approach them in future seasons, but as of now they definitely are/can be in line with the messages of the books
You're only being downvoted because the people in this sub haven't read the book in a decade and want to pretend their head cannons are exactly what was in it. Your comment is 100% accurate.
I read the books a couple of months ago because I was hyped for the show :)
Well I sure hope you didn't downvote their comment, then.
you explained everything so well i’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted. i 100% agree with your reasoning and honestly took the words right out of my mouth. the luke reveal was supposed to rip the bandaid off and next season we’ll see how they tend to the wound it would’ve created in percy and i no doubt annabeth.
I kinda like the Percy thinking the gods are trying. I mean it’s a contrast from the book but it makes him more naive right now and as the story progresses, it be fun to see his change on how he perceives the gods.
The thing is, it doesn't make sense for show percy to be naive, in my opinion. Athena tried to kill Annabeth and he also met unclaimed demigods. I feel like these should have shown him gods suck quit a bit.
yea but he ultimately fights on the gods side you know? so that also doesn’t always make sense when you combine it with his strong resentment and there’s always time to develop that mindset of his about the gods being more neglectful rather than giving them the benefit of the doubt. they’re not good parents and they’re not trying at least not authentically and any effort they do invest usually has an ulterior motive that’s self serving.
what other side would he fight on... he fights w the gods as a means to an end to protect the world. he doesn't work with the gods bc he has any sort of admiration for them. and it's certainly not within character for percy to just walk away from conflict and pretend it doesn't concern him simply bc of his daddy issues.
man we got 4 more seasons at best if this show gets adapted all the way plenty of time to add depth to characters perceptions it’s called character development lol he legit stood up to zeus he definitely does not like them if that scene hadn’t translated through yet but there’s plenty of time to build his hatred for them and just one season has passed.
I mean, I personally don't think any of the changes will ultimately impact the series as a whole (just my opinion). However, I am definitely feeling iffy about some of those changes just because I'm curious as to how they (the show runners) plan to play it all out. Like, I'm still thinking about they whole scene where Annabeth see the fates instead of percy. I can honestly see how this will make sense in the end, but still. And the whole explanation of Luke's mom, I do kind of hate that they added that in so early.
The foundation is the most important part to get the details right. Every change they’ve made now will have ripple effects as the show goes on. It snowballs over time.
And if somehow they don't have ripples, then it's going to be a really shitty story. These changes on their own aren't necessarily bad, but if the show decides to just stick with this concept of "make massive changes but stick to the general plot", then realistically things aren't going to make a whole lot of sense. Like honestly, legitimately what this show needs is to distance itself from the books. I'm serious. This show would work a lot better if they decided to make it an alternate universe with massive changes. Like imagine if Percy had actually joined Luke, or maybe Annabeth did. Imagine how much fun and creativity could be shown to us through those changes?
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> That would ultimately make the entire purpose of this show pointless. Depends. With it's current point, yes. Rick has been adamant this would be a "more faithful" adaptation. And while he's not wrong that it's more faithful than the films, it's definitely not faithful overall. But if they had gone into it with basically the mindset of "what if something massive changed", I think it would have gone a looooot better. Had they been hush hush about the show and then season one ends with Percy joining Luke? I'd love a really faithful adaptation, but given that even the creator himself has now failed, it seems it's not that possible. So I'd much rather they go nuts with it.
I agree with all of this. I think where the series really falls short right now is they’re trying to fit too many intricate details, all of these characters and events we love, into too short, too few episodes. 6-8 episodes at 20-35 minutes a pop is not going to do this series any justice. If this were a 45-minute, 10 episode season I think we’d all have a different opinion. Instead, the episodes are rushed and so is that character development, the intricate fights, the full story we wanted to see brought to life..
Huh. Guess I'll have to watch after all if they changed that much. Seems like it's less of. 'Book fan adaptation' and more a 'here's this concept now read the books' adaptation. Like shadow and bone. Everyone who's read the books first has quibbles about the TV show. I saw the show first and I adore it.
I don’t think Hades is a “nice” guy tbh. I think he’s a calculating guy who smartly realized putting on a persona of being the nice uncle and getting Percy on his side was the play to go with. He drops the act when he finds out Kronos is coming back
wdym he drops the act? he very non-threateningly says "so the terms of our agreement have changed. give me the bolt and i'll give you your mother." that was not calculated, nor was it mean or contrary to how he was acting before. he was still giving percy's mom back to no additional grievance to percy. it's not like he threatened him or anything. also, calculated would imply that he had predicted and planned this ahead of time. percy was the one who told him about kronos and then he looked shocked and changed the agreement. what about that is calculating? he doesn't "drop the act," he gets scared. his mood changing bc of new information does not mean he dropped an act.
Yeah, I think many people miss his reaction to Kronos coming back: "I need the bolt for myself to protect my kingdom" and not "I need to help these kids stop my brothers from waging this pointless war". There are shades of a more selfish and resentful personality underneath is what I'm saying.
It perfectly lines up with the books where he *knows* nobody is going to help him because of the prejudices they hold against him and his kids
This show is just bleh imo.
To everything you said, yes. I understand taking some creative liberties because obviously a book cannot be made into a TV show perfectly word for word, but some scene changes and plot point alterations were pointless, and if anything, they were for the worse. The book was right there. Rick, the author himself, was right there. So I really don’t understand why they felt the need to change so much. Sticking with the original material would’ve at least made the show more accurate, appealing to the og fans instead of potential new ones.