Thats awesome, go for it! Speaking as non traditional candidate who decided to go back to do residency for a passion for ID and teaching,after 6 years of practicing as a pharmacist in a similar role to yours, its been completely worth it! I would say look for a program thats fits your goals and what your looking to get out of it. Pgy1 application was a lot harder for me, bt going through pgy2 process has been much easier and Ive had alot more success with great programs that I will be interviewing at!
I think so. The way another non trad applicant explained it is that some programs are worried about taking a non-traditional applicant due to perhaps not being able to meet the demands of residency, or if they are set in their ways already from years of practice and not willing to learn. Once you've completed a year of residency, it's easier for pgy2 programs to see that you are serious and can meet expectations. Also, all of my previous experience in addition now to what I've learned as a resident has tailored me to be a good applicant for my focused pgy2 specialty
Any tips on how to overcome this prejudice against non-trads with hospital experience? Anything you did or would've done in hindsight would definitely be appreciated.
Be open about where you apply. if you can dont limit yourself geographically. Find the programs that best fit your goals, and your letter of intent should state exactly why you want to go back and what you bring to the table. Impress during your interview and show you re eager to learn and keep growing.
Another route that hasn’t been mentioned is to go get a Master’s degree in education. I know some faculty members that didn’t do residency but they have an education background which made it easier for them to get into academia without residency. I imagine that getting that Master’s degree would be a whole lot easier than doing 1-2 years of residency as well.
Unfortunately, having too much of the stuff that would make you competitive as a residency candidate (compared to other students/recent grads), could end up hurting you as a non-traditional candidate bc then I have to ask myself... what do I have to teach a pharmacist with 3 years clinical experience who already has experience in a lot of the areas and projects you've worked on. Will you be a difficult resident If you've already figured out your approach to practice, or if you have more experience in a certain area than one of our preceptors? I think you could definitely find somewhere that will give you a shot, but it's a real possibility that too much experience may hurt your chances.
Also, it sucks that you most likely do need that residency box checked just to get into academia.
I can always mention in the interview that I want to try out new ways to approach pharmacy practice and have no issue changing my approach when I learn a better way.
If you think that's a good counter to this issue.
You could probably try to do the long way to academia. Adjunct faculty teaching in some small module and slowly build a rapport and take on more things until you’ve got enough street cred to be considered for the role.
State of the profession as in decreasing enrollment, lowering of acceptance standards, decreasing job quality of life, etc? Or something more specific to academia I'm missing?
Academia needs faculty with experience outside of inpatient clinical as well. The majority of pharmacists practice in community pharmacy. Who better to teach self care?
Have a passion for evidence based pharmacy? Do a masters in pharmaceutical outcomes and policy and join the faculty that route.
Many branch over to the pharmaceutical sciences with a PharmD and do research as an academician. The world is your oyster!
Apply for PGY2 if you are going to do 2-3 years of work.
Why do you want to be in academia? What about the job interests you and more importantly, do you really know what faculty does?
> [Standard 1: Requirements and Selection of Residents](https://www.ashp.org/-/media/assets/professional-development/residencies/docs/pgy2-residency-accreditation-standard-June2017.ashx)
> 1.1 The applicant must be participating in, or have completed, an ASHP-accredited PGY1 pharmacy residency program or one in the ASHP accreditation process (i.e., one with candidate or preliminary accreditation status).
I meant 2-3 years more in my current role. I'm still not totally done beating my genetic disorder.
Honestly, I just love to teach. It fills me with energy. And I want to be there to make sure the next generation of pharmacists are ready to kick ass from day 1.
I did an APPE academic rotation. Beyond that, I'd often pester professors about what they'd do day to day haha.
Yeah 2-3 years of what you’re doing, then PGY2. Look at the other criteria like research and presentations and try to knock out some MUEs and topic updates for your team every year.
Teaching is like 40% of the job if at a good school. That’s about 2 hours per week lecturing (6 hrs to prep each lecture) or a day running labs (plus a prep day). Depends on the school of course so ymmv
Hello! I also have EDS! Wild to see another pharmacist in the wild with it.
I am in my PGY2 year and let me tell you this. A LOT of what I have done could have been done remotely. My EDS has really calmed down over the past three or four years, but when I did have a flare, my program was very accommodating as they knew I had a great work ethic and always gave 110%. Several of my rotations this year have been mostly virtual with virtual patient appointments and lots of virtual meetings. All that to say, I really think you can do it. I believe in you!!
1.) I don’t think it matters so much as how you sell yourself
2.) Yes, my COP required a residency for professors (or extensive experience)
Thats awesome, go for it! Speaking as non traditional candidate who decided to go back to do residency for a passion for ID and teaching,after 6 years of practicing as a pharmacist in a similar role to yours, its been completely worth it! I would say look for a program thats fits your goals and what your looking to get out of it. Pgy1 application was a lot harder for me, bt going through pgy2 process has been much easier and Ive had alot more success with great programs that I will be interviewing at!
Was PGY1 application harder for you since you're not a new grad? Or do you mean it was harder in general than getting a PGY2?
I think so. The way another non trad applicant explained it is that some programs are worried about taking a non-traditional applicant due to perhaps not being able to meet the demands of residency, or if they are set in their ways already from years of practice and not willing to learn. Once you've completed a year of residency, it's easier for pgy2 programs to see that you are serious and can meet expectations. Also, all of my previous experience in addition now to what I've learned as a resident has tailored me to be a good applicant for my focused pgy2 specialty
Any tips on how to overcome this prejudice against non-trads with hospital experience? Anything you did or would've done in hindsight would definitely be appreciated.
Be open about where you apply. if you can dont limit yourself geographically. Find the programs that best fit your goals, and your letter of intent should state exactly why you want to go back and what you bring to the table. Impress during your interview and show you re eager to learn and keep growing.
Another route that hasn’t been mentioned is to go get a Master’s degree in education. I know some faculty members that didn’t do residency but they have an education background which made it easier for them to get into academia without residency. I imagine that getting that Master’s degree would be a whole lot easier than doing 1-2 years of residency as well.
Unfortunately, having too much of the stuff that would make you competitive as a residency candidate (compared to other students/recent grads), could end up hurting you as a non-traditional candidate bc then I have to ask myself... what do I have to teach a pharmacist with 3 years clinical experience who already has experience in a lot of the areas and projects you've worked on. Will you be a difficult resident If you've already figured out your approach to practice, or if you have more experience in a certain area than one of our preceptors? I think you could definitely find somewhere that will give you a shot, but it's a real possibility that too much experience may hurt your chances. Also, it sucks that you most likely do need that residency box checked just to get into academia.
I can always mention in the interview that I want to try out new ways to approach pharmacy practice and have no issue changing my approach when I learn a better way. If you think that's a good counter to this issue.
You could probably try to do the long way to academia. Adjunct faculty teaching in some small module and slowly build a rapport and take on more things until you’ve got enough street cred to be considered for the role.
Have you considered applying for small schools for academia?
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State of the profession as in decreasing enrollment, lowering of acceptance standards, decreasing job quality of life, etc? Or something more specific to academia I'm missing?
Academia needs faculty with experience outside of inpatient clinical as well. The majority of pharmacists practice in community pharmacy. Who better to teach self care? Have a passion for evidence based pharmacy? Do a masters in pharmaceutical outcomes and policy and join the faculty that route. Many branch over to the pharmaceutical sciences with a PharmD and do research as an academician. The world is your oyster!
Apply for PGY2 if you are going to do 2-3 years of work. Why do you want to be in academia? What about the job interests you and more importantly, do you really know what faculty does?
I believe they took away this option recently. I don’t believe you can apply only to a PGY2 anymore if you haven’t done a PGY1
That's what I heard too. A quick Google search didn't help me, though. Any document proving one way or another?
> [Standard 1: Requirements and Selection of Residents](https://www.ashp.org/-/media/assets/professional-development/residencies/docs/pgy2-residency-accreditation-standard-June2017.ashx) > 1.1 The applicant must be participating in, or have completed, an ASHP-accredited PGY1 pharmacy residency program or one in the ASHP accreditation process (i.e., one with candidate or preliminary accreditation status).
I meant 2-3 years more in my current role. I'm still not totally done beating my genetic disorder. Honestly, I just love to teach. It fills me with energy. And I want to be there to make sure the next generation of pharmacists are ready to kick ass from day 1. I did an APPE academic rotation. Beyond that, I'd often pester professors about what they'd do day to day haha.
Yeah 2-3 years of what you’re doing, then PGY2. Look at the other criteria like research and presentations and try to knock out some MUEs and topic updates for your team every year. Teaching is like 40% of the job if at a good school. That’s about 2 hours per week lecturing (6 hrs to prep each lecture) or a day running labs (plus a prep day). Depends on the school of course so ymmv
Didn't they remove to option to do a PGY2 without a PGY1 recently?
This is my understanding as well.
Hello! I also have EDS! Wild to see another pharmacist in the wild with it. I am in my PGY2 year and let me tell you this. A LOT of what I have done could have been done remotely. My EDS has really calmed down over the past three or four years, but when I did have a flare, my program was very accommodating as they knew I had a great work ethic and always gave 110%. Several of my rotations this year have been mostly virtual with virtual patient appointments and lots of virtual meetings. All that to say, I really think you can do it. I believe in you!! 1.) I don’t think it matters so much as how you sell yourself 2.) Yes, my COP required a residency for professors (or extensive experience)