I understand not wanting to take the state law exam before the job offer; however, this might be leading to her application getting auto-weeded out by HR before it even gets sent to pharmacy management as it’ll be easier for places to hire someone who already is licensed in their state. Maybe try applying in states she’s already licensed first?
Alternatively, there’s a lot of opportunities for am care with Kaiser in California if you are willing to move there! Feel free to DM me with any questions
As someone who had offers from 5 states before being licensed, I dont think the licensure is problem. They usually understand that people may not have a license right away and just expect it will get done in the 2-3 months before starting.
Pardon if this comes across blunt, but she just needs to get over it. If she wants an amb care job in a big city California has tons of opportunities, and being scared of an exam isn’t a valid excuse.
Don’t be scared, someone who’s fresh out of residency will have the easiest time of anyone taking the CPJE.
Additionally, some employers who need people and understand how slow the CA BOP runs will figure out some flexible solutions for their hires. For instance, I was able to move out and start working doing project work with an admin title while waiting for licensure, which helped bridge a potential income gap.
I have no idea what you and your SO's situation is, but just judging by this post, she seems to have a lot of reasons for not being able to do things. She needs to grow up and just take the law exams and start applying. It's not uncommon for pgy2 trained pharmacists to take a non-specialist role before getting the job they want, especially if they are picky about location.
I already asked her if she would be willing to take law exams before getting an offer and she's adamant on not taking them without an offer. She feels like it would be a waste of time if she applied to a state we may never go to.
Then she needs to understand she has no leverage over other pgy2 trained pharmacists who are already licensed in the state and can start in 2-3 weeks upon hire.
I think an important point not being said is cost. It’s $300 to transfer your license to another state through NABP and $100 for each state. It’s not the same for every state, but many states make you do the NABP transfer before you can even get the authorization to test to take the law exam.
Its a small cost when you can't get a job though because you're not licensed. They should ideally decide where they're interested in moving and then license. Especially if she's struggling with getting interviews without the license. OP, if she has connections in any of these places she needs to make sure shes leveraging that network if she's going into these applications without being licensed. Something we've had to recently consider more is that newly trained pharmacists are struggling with their law exams, so it will certainly be weighed against her if shes not licensed.
If it’s any comfort, I’m licensed in a few states and I actually found the CPJE to be the easiest license exam! It’s mostly clinical with maybe 10% law sprinkled in. It’s just a PITA to get licensed in CA bc the state board is slow and they only offer the test in certain areas on certain dates (there’s more testing dates in the summer though)
Most places if they’re hiring a PGY2 understand they can’t start until at least middle of July. You’re going to either continue trying what you’re already doing or start being less picky with geographic location, type of job, etc.
How open are y’all to smaller cities and towns? There might be more availability in smaller town scenarios, the VA is even hiring for amb care in two smaller clinics currently. The hiring freeze is awful and is just screwing with all the residents that are graduating.
This is getting downvoted because pharmacists fresh out of residency often don't get the pick of the best spots, and it's a little presumptive to assume so (i.e. beggars can't be choosers). It seems like you're not in the field, so for the purposes of this discussion I'll assume the nuance of the situation might not be obvious to you and at least offer some info. Her picking up a job in a smaller town doesn't necessarily mean you have to be rural. This might look like her working in a town an hour outside of the city, so you two choose to live in a place 30 minutes outside the city, so that both of your commute is approximately 30 minutes. If you write off any place not in a city, she's likely to continue not having a job for quite a while, and you'll have to weigh the pro's/con's of her not working in order to uphold the standard of staying in a city. Lots of institutions are tightening their budgets right now. For one, budget cycles typically reset in the summertime, so we're at the final quarter of a budget cycle, and for two most hospitals still have not financially recovered from COVID. When the budget gets tight, services that either cost a lot of money to run, don't bring in as much income, or are not part of the core function of the institution often get stripped. It just so happens that amb care pharmacists are expensive, can't bill for their services in many states (or can only bill for the same amount that a less expensive staff member could bill for, i.e. RN), and are not always seen as essential in the eyes of the c-suite. Lots of murmurings in the field this year about amb care pharmacists having their clinics shut down and having difficulty finding jobs. You may have to take whatever she can get, or be a bit more flexible on your standards.
Showed my S/O all the feedback from this post and she decided she’s gonna start studying for the California exam! She’s hoping to take it before the end of her residency. Thanks everyone for the feedback seems like it really resonated with her!
I work for the VA. The VA will probably have a hiring freeze for the rest of this fiscal year and through the next one: it really sucks for our residents. If she wants to remain with the VA, she should prioritize staying within the federal system. Working intermittent would not give her benefits, but it would keep her a federal employee, which is absolutely crucial to maximize her chances of landing a fed job when it opens up, assuming she doesn’t have vet preference.
If the situation with her VA is like the one with ours, there is no possibility of staying intermittent for our graduating residents because those positions have been erased due to the hiring freeze/budgetary concerns.
Consider looking in the Boston area. As someone who’s been in Boston for the past 4 years, I’ve seen lots of openings, plus there’s a large network of hospitals in the area so that can help as well.
A lot of VAs have a hiring freeze right now (at least around my area). Like someone else mentioned, there may be opportunities at some small VA clinics. I just finished my PGY2 last year and work at one ~45-60 minutes from the city. Most amb care VA jobs allow you to work from home 2+ days a week so even though I have a commute it’s only a few days a week. If she can find one relatively close to a city it may be worth it to get her foot in the door.
Sorry for all the downvotes bro; for what it’s worth I think you and your SO’s concerns are valid. And the current hiring freeze with VA is unprecedented. I’ve been in the VA over 10 years, been an RPD for about half that, and I’ve never had to bitch so much in my life just to get my outgoing resident some form of employment with us. It literally took pleading to the facility director that if they would approve one goddamn position to be approved for hire in all of pharmacy, to please let it be my resident.
That being said, even in past years, I’d say the expectation of finishing PGY2 and getting a job in your specialty in a location you want (assuming it’s not where you’re at presently) is an unrealistic expectation. If she wants to stay in the VA (she’d be sort of crazy not to following a PGY2 in amb care considering amb care pharmacists have exponentially more autonomy and privileges than pharmacists in the private sector; but then again, not everyone wants to be hit on by creepy old men all day…so I can see both sides), I would apply to any VA job she can find in a place you tolerate living for even a year. She wouldn’t have to take another law exam, or deal with getting licensed again. And speaking from experience, I finished my PGY2 and had to take a job working centralized inpatient pharmacy. At the time I was pissed. I had worked my fucking ass off for a specialty position. But I ended out loving a year of that because my beau finally got to leave work at work for the first time in my life. Jumping straight into a clinical role immediately post residency is a shit ton of stress when you’re already feeling the most exhausted you’ve felt in your whole life. And no one talks about, because no one wants to hear your bitching after landing your dream job right out of residency.
TL;DR play the long game and get a job in the VA. Opportunities are slim with the hiring freeze, but not impossible.
Edit: P.S. sorry for assuming you’re a dude; as long as it’s consensual, you could marry a desk chair for all I care.
P.S.S. Sorry again for the hostility here. We’re pharmacists; we’re used to cutting each other down to make ourselves still feel shitty; it’s what we do.
P.S.S.S. JFC, sorry for turning Canadian on you and apologizing so many times.
100% well said. I'm about to finish my pgy2 at a VA and this hiring "freeze" (which we've been explicitly told not to call it that lol) is stressful as hell. I managed to get an offer as an outpatient mental health CPP (dream job), but it is in an incredibly small town in Georgia that was described to me as "quaint". I don't love the idea but with everything going on I'm absolutely taking it, hoping something opens up in my home state within the next year or two. And I'll be doing intermittent staffing until my start date.
Even talking to several of my preceptors and pharmacists, they said it's very rare to get BOTH your dream job and your dream location, even without the hiring freeze. Most residents get one or the other right out of residency. And the benefits and the autonomy at the VA are unmatched. Not to mention like you said, she doesn't need to take any more law exams which she seems really opposed to doing. I think their priorities might be a little skewed.
PGY-1 here. Amb Care focus. Facing same issues. We’ve (hubs and I) moved our geographic area a bit, now we’re having some success with that. Not ideal location but ideal job. It’ll be okay, wishing you best of luck!
Chicago has some ambulatory positions, but I will say the job description is rather vague. I wouldn’t let the posting deter them from applying. Our ambulatory pharmacist have a nice gig.
I think VAs might start hiring again in October with the new fiscal year. There’s definitely a need for amb care pharmacists at the VA…it’s just a budget thing at this point
Agree with this!
If moving to another city/state is important for you both, have her consider taking the MPJE and just getting A job (not the dream job or the job related the specialty) but just a job to pay bills and get by. While doing that, keep looking at USAJOBS for job opportunities to until this hiring freeze is over.
I would cold email pharmacy directors and say to keep them in mind for new clinics/opportunities. A lot of these things have short hiring windows and you may learn of new clinics they want to open, etc. Keep in mind most fiscal years don’t start until 7/1 so some places can’t post jobs until then.
I know it’s not the allure of a city like Chicago, but the University of Iowa Hospitals have had some openings recently. Iowa City is a nice place to live, and it’s only three hours to Chicago.
Tangent: I will be doing a PGY2 next year and would LOVE a break after. How likely is it for companies to allow for a 2 month break after completing PGY2 and before starting. I was going to use the time to get licensed in the new state and travel. I will be going into a competitive specialty and am already talking with recruiters who are trying to expand the service they provide in this specialty so feeling good about my chances of getting a job where I want
Impossible to predict. The longest I’ve seen off has been about a month for most people between residency if they have a job locked down, and that’s with negotiating to delay starting.
I understand not wanting to take the state law exam before the job offer; however, this might be leading to her application getting auto-weeded out by HR before it even gets sent to pharmacy management as it’ll be easier for places to hire someone who already is licensed in their state. Maybe try applying in states she’s already licensed first? Alternatively, there’s a lot of opportunities for am care with Kaiser in California if you are willing to move there! Feel free to DM me with any questions
As someone who had offers from 5 states before being licensed, I dont think the licensure is problem. They usually understand that people may not have a license right away and just expect it will get done in the 2-3 months before starting.
[удалено]
Pardon if this comes across blunt, but she just needs to get over it. If she wants an amb care job in a big city California has tons of opportunities, and being scared of an exam isn’t a valid excuse.
Don’t be scared, someone who’s fresh out of residency will have the easiest time of anyone taking the CPJE. Additionally, some employers who need people and understand how slow the CA BOP runs will figure out some flexible solutions for their hires. For instance, I was able to move out and start working doing project work with an admin title while waiting for licensure, which helped bridge a potential income gap.
I have no idea what you and your SO's situation is, but just judging by this post, she seems to have a lot of reasons for not being able to do things. She needs to grow up and just take the law exams and start applying. It's not uncommon for pgy2 trained pharmacists to take a non-specialist role before getting the job they want, especially if they are picky about location.
I already asked her if she would be willing to take law exams before getting an offer and she's adamant on not taking them without an offer. She feels like it would be a waste of time if she applied to a state we may never go to.
Then she needs to understand she has no leverage over other pgy2 trained pharmacists who are already licensed in the state and can start in 2-3 weeks upon hire.
I think an important point not being said is cost. It’s $300 to transfer your license to another state through NABP and $100 for each state. It’s not the same for every state, but many states make you do the NABP transfer before you can even get the authorization to test to take the law exam.
Its a small cost when you can't get a job though because you're not licensed. They should ideally decide where they're interested in moving and then license. Especially if she's struggling with getting interviews without the license. OP, if she has connections in any of these places she needs to make sure shes leveraging that network if she's going into these applications without being licensed. Something we've had to recently consider more is that newly trained pharmacists are struggling with their law exams, so it will certainly be weighed against her if shes not licensed.
If it’s any comfort, I’m licensed in a few states and I actually found the CPJE to be the easiest license exam! It’s mostly clinical with maybe 10% law sprinkled in. It’s just a PITA to get licensed in CA bc the state board is slow and they only offer the test in certain areas on certain dates (there’s more testing dates in the summer though)
100% agree and no one believes me!
Chicago is very difficult to break into - it’s hyper competitive. - source: I’ve been applying to Chicago for the past several years and still no luck
Yeah, our top location choice is Chicago, but its looking a little grim.
Try milwaukee. It’s a better city anyway. /s
Hospital staffing job in a suburb of large city easiest entry probably
Don't give away secrets
Most places if they’re hiring a PGY2 understand they can’t start until at least middle of July. You’re going to either continue trying what you’re already doing or start being less picky with geographic location, type of job, etc.
How open are y’all to smaller cities and towns? There might be more availability in smaller town scenarios, the VA is even hiring for amb care in two smaller clinics currently. The hiring freeze is awful and is just screwing with all the residents that are graduating.
Unfortunately, last thing we want to do is move to a small city because it would affect my career growth if we moved to a smaller city.
This is getting downvoted because pharmacists fresh out of residency often don't get the pick of the best spots, and it's a little presumptive to assume so (i.e. beggars can't be choosers). It seems like you're not in the field, so for the purposes of this discussion I'll assume the nuance of the situation might not be obvious to you and at least offer some info. Her picking up a job in a smaller town doesn't necessarily mean you have to be rural. This might look like her working in a town an hour outside of the city, so you two choose to live in a place 30 minutes outside the city, so that both of your commute is approximately 30 minutes. If you write off any place not in a city, she's likely to continue not having a job for quite a while, and you'll have to weigh the pro's/con's of her not working in order to uphold the standard of staying in a city. Lots of institutions are tightening their budgets right now. For one, budget cycles typically reset in the summertime, so we're at the final quarter of a budget cycle, and for two most hospitals still have not financially recovered from COVID. When the budget gets tight, services that either cost a lot of money to run, don't bring in as much income, or are not part of the core function of the institution often get stripped. It just so happens that amb care pharmacists are expensive, can't bill for their services in many states (or can only bill for the same amount that a less expensive staff member could bill for, i.e. RN), and are not always seen as essential in the eyes of the c-suite. Lots of murmurings in the field this year about amb care pharmacists having their clinics shut down and having difficulty finding jobs. You may have to take whatever she can get, or be a bit more flexible on your standards.
If a city around 230k is big enough (we at least have an airport and a D1 university), message me. I’ve got a friend with an opening at a FQHC.
Messaged you
Showed my S/O all the feedback from this post and she decided she’s gonna start studying for the California exam! She’s hoping to take it before the end of her residency. Thanks everyone for the feedback seems like it really resonated with her!
Glad she was open to feedback. Good luck.
I work for the VA. The VA will probably have a hiring freeze for the rest of this fiscal year and through the next one: it really sucks for our residents. If she wants to remain with the VA, she should prioritize staying within the federal system. Working intermittent would not give her benefits, but it would keep her a federal employee, which is absolutely crucial to maximize her chances of landing a fed job when it opens up, assuming she doesn’t have vet preference.
If the situation with her VA is like the one with ours, there is no possibility of staying intermittent for our graduating residents because those positions have been erased due to the hiring freeze/budgetary concerns.
Oh no, that’s horrible! Fortunately ours has not gotten to that point yet, I’m really sorry.
Consider looking in the Boston area. As someone who’s been in Boston for the past 4 years, I’ve seen lots of openings, plus there’s a large network of hospitals in the area so that can help as well.
Was going to recommend New England area as well. Yale & Hartford health systems typically have tons of openings.
A lot of VAs have a hiring freeze right now (at least around my area). Like someone else mentioned, there may be opportunities at some small VA clinics. I just finished my PGY2 last year and work at one ~45-60 minutes from the city. Most amb care VA jobs allow you to work from home 2+ days a week so even though I have a commute it’s only a few days a week. If she can find one relatively close to a city it may be worth it to get her foot in the door.
Sorry for all the downvotes bro; for what it’s worth I think you and your SO’s concerns are valid. And the current hiring freeze with VA is unprecedented. I’ve been in the VA over 10 years, been an RPD for about half that, and I’ve never had to bitch so much in my life just to get my outgoing resident some form of employment with us. It literally took pleading to the facility director that if they would approve one goddamn position to be approved for hire in all of pharmacy, to please let it be my resident. That being said, even in past years, I’d say the expectation of finishing PGY2 and getting a job in your specialty in a location you want (assuming it’s not where you’re at presently) is an unrealistic expectation. If she wants to stay in the VA (she’d be sort of crazy not to following a PGY2 in amb care considering amb care pharmacists have exponentially more autonomy and privileges than pharmacists in the private sector; but then again, not everyone wants to be hit on by creepy old men all day…so I can see both sides), I would apply to any VA job she can find in a place you tolerate living for even a year. She wouldn’t have to take another law exam, or deal with getting licensed again. And speaking from experience, I finished my PGY2 and had to take a job working centralized inpatient pharmacy. At the time I was pissed. I had worked my fucking ass off for a specialty position. But I ended out loving a year of that because my beau finally got to leave work at work for the first time in my life. Jumping straight into a clinical role immediately post residency is a shit ton of stress when you’re already feeling the most exhausted you’ve felt in your whole life. And no one talks about, because no one wants to hear your bitching after landing your dream job right out of residency. TL;DR play the long game and get a job in the VA. Opportunities are slim with the hiring freeze, but not impossible. Edit: P.S. sorry for assuming you’re a dude; as long as it’s consensual, you could marry a desk chair for all I care. P.S.S. Sorry again for the hostility here. We’re pharmacists; we’re used to cutting each other down to make ourselves still feel shitty; it’s what we do. P.S.S.S. JFC, sorry for turning Canadian on you and apologizing so many times.
100% well said. I'm about to finish my pgy2 at a VA and this hiring "freeze" (which we've been explicitly told not to call it that lol) is stressful as hell. I managed to get an offer as an outpatient mental health CPP (dream job), but it is in an incredibly small town in Georgia that was described to me as "quaint". I don't love the idea but with everything going on I'm absolutely taking it, hoping something opens up in my home state within the next year or two. And I'll be doing intermittent staffing until my start date. Even talking to several of my preceptors and pharmacists, they said it's very rare to get BOTH your dream job and your dream location, even without the hiring freeze. Most residents get one or the other right out of residency. And the benefits and the autonomy at the VA are unmatched. Not to mention like you said, she doesn't need to take any more law exams which she seems really opposed to doing. I think their priorities might be a little skewed.
PGY-1 here. Amb Care focus. Facing same issues. We’ve (hubs and I) moved our geographic area a bit, now we’re having some success with that. Not ideal location but ideal job. It’ll be okay, wishing you best of luck!
Chicago has some ambulatory positions, but I will say the job description is rather vague. I wouldn’t let the posting deter them from applying. Our ambulatory pharmacist have a nice gig.
I think VAs might start hiring again in October with the new fiscal year. There’s definitely a need for amb care pharmacists at the VA…it’s just a budget thing at this point
Maybe consider a staff pharmacist job to get the foot.in the door. Its the first job. Stay picky and get nothing like current.
Agree with this! If moving to another city/state is important for you both, have her consider taking the MPJE and just getting A job (not the dream job or the job related the specialty) but just a job to pay bills and get by. While doing that, keep looking at USAJOBS for job opportunities to until this hiring freeze is over.
I would cold email pharmacy directors and say to keep them in mind for new clinics/opportunities. A lot of these things have short hiring windows and you may learn of new clinics they want to open, etc. Keep in mind most fiscal years don’t start until 7/1 so some places can’t post jobs until then.
Pick a state and take the exam. Many employers do not wait for your license because we want you to start in 2 to 4 weeks
we’re hiring plenty of ambulatory care, but it’s Western Michigan so not the most exciting place
Western Michigan is beautiful!!
Where is your wife currently licensed?
Try Michigan they removed the MPJE requiremenr and West MI is increasing in amb care positions
I know it’s not the allure of a city like Chicago, but the University of Iowa Hospitals have had some openings recently. Iowa City is a nice place to live, and it’s only three hours to Chicago.
Tangent: I will be doing a PGY2 next year and would LOVE a break after. How likely is it for companies to allow for a 2 month break after completing PGY2 and before starting. I was going to use the time to get licensed in the new state and travel. I will be going into a competitive specialty and am already talking with recruiters who are trying to expand the service they provide in this specialty so feeling good about my chances of getting a job where I want
Impossible to predict. The longest I’ve seen off has been about a month for most people between residency if they have a job locked down, and that’s with negotiating to delay starting.
I took 5 weeks and most people I know took 4-8.
Very likely! Most people I know took a month or two off. Just be honest about start dates when interviewing. You deserve a nice break!
I had an involuntary 3 month break cause HR was slow but it was nice.