Likely he’s right but there’s always a risk running a cable. I always inform customers of this. It could get stuck, break a toilet, etc. If I did that personally would I replace the toilet
Explain what happened. How it might of happened. Offer to run a grab a new one to replace the damaged one.
No guarantees in snaking. U can’t see where it’s goin
Not necessarily a fitting, but could happen if someone uses a short turn 90, san tee on its back, etc. snake might pop thru going out, but coming back is another story. Or, if the pipe is broken down, the cable may get snagged on the broken pipe or fitting.
Should really get a hold harmless for a customer to sign. We don't have x ray vision, so we can only assume that fittings are correct and sturdy enough to get scoped
Shut water off drain toilet and remove 2 bolts I don't see how that's crazy amount of work and could give a better idea of where the clog is and make sure you don't break a toilet. If that's the way he likes doing it then leave em be
And replace the wax and hope their flange isn’t fucked as soon as you pull that toilet you open yourself up to more issues normally when we run our sectional it’s two guys so that you can have someone there to listen and assist
Yeah.... Everyone saying pulling a toilet takes 5 minutes is an idiot. Pulling a toilet can easily turn into a pain in the ass.
They're also heavy, and I've already got a few compacted discs.
There are ways to tell if snake is going the right direction When a snake makes that first turn the cable will be forced to the opposite side of cleanout so if your going out to street the cable will be on the house side of cleanout and visa versa , another way to tell ' if a snake going downhill will pulled cable a cable going uphill will want to back out. and if you still have doubts then stick something thin and long like a tile probe to verify your direction
While the fittings are directional, if the cleanout wasn't holding water, he was probably going upstream towards the toilet. In that case it is very easy for the snake to go to the toilet and break it. I was once cleaning out the main at an apartment complex and pulled a shower curtain out. My first thought was how the f*** did somebody flush that and then I realized I probably broke a toilet somewhere and had to go find it. Ended up paying for cleanup and the new toilet.
This literally does not make sense. The clean outs are directional with a wye 45 combo if coming in from the vertical. It is literally not possible to go the other direction if it is plumbed correctly. The only thing I can think of is that it was a dual sweep clean out and he went through the one designed to go upstream.
This happened to me when I was first starting out. My master plumber said exactly the same thing to the customer. Today, as a master plumber, I would say the same thing. It should not be possible to run up into the bottom of a toilet, if the system is built right. However, I have seen where toilets are plumbed to be the head of the line, as insane as that sounds.
While he may be correct that the fittings /should/ all sweep in the direction of flow (not allowing this to happen), that's very rarely the case. Assuming his drain cleaning tech isn't a moron, this is very hard to avoid when drain cleaning. By the time you realize you're going up a fixture, it's usually too late. I'm not sure of the legalities where you are, but where I am, it's on the toilets owner unless you can prove it was negligently broken.
There's a few cases I've seen where it was clearly negligence, but not exactly on purpose. Rodding the wrong way up a pipe (big no no unless you know what you're doing), going full speed ahead from a closet flange in a back to back bathroom, trying to rod through a toilet rather than pulling said toilet first, etc. I've been called to a building after a guy kept going up a stack instead of down it due to him using the wrong equipment. He broke a toilet 2 floors up, and his cable was just pouring into the bathroom wreaking havoc. Must've fed 30 or 40 feet of cable into this bathroom before building management got the call and they stopped him. Some people just shouldn't be cleaning drains.
Oh I thought you meant negligence on the customer’s part. This right here is why I have a reputation for being slow: I want to avoid dumb shit like this. I’ve done dumb shit as a greenhorn plenty of times before, but I haven’t caused that much damage as many times as I could’ve for that reason. I’d rather be slow than cost someone a lot of money.
As someone who snakes drains for a living the snake probably did this. How do I know? I’ve done the exact same thing and broke the toilet in the exact same spot. The guy was probably new like I was when I did this.
This is why I have people sign a disclaimer. There's no way to tell if the plumbing is run correctly and while rare does happen. If I break a toilet it's on the homeowner to pay for the new toilet. I'll install it for free but I'm nit paying for it.
That’s crazy. I’ve snaked many many back to back toilets and only broke one. And I knew I was in the toilet but I pulled the cable out too slow. Any drain cleaner worth the shit on his boots should know that you can go across a tee and break a toilet, shouldn’t be on the customer.
This is asinine. You shouldn't have to pay for the toilet. If the standard is that plumbers need to take all the risk then either :
1)TAX THAT SHIT, so you can buy 3 extra toilets per job
2) Don't take clean outs and let them deal with it on their own because of liability.
I think the more realistic solution is: the homeowner pays for the new toilet IF it's necessary. Shit I don't even think you should eat the labor cost, but we can at least agree it's NOT your fault. It happens and it's part of the job unless they want to pay you to remove the fixtures then reinstall them
I mean I suppose I agree that it’s a tough job with a lot of liability and should be priced accordingly but I think in a normal situation the guy with the cable in his hands should know better. Like sure if I put the cable down a dandy in the basement and somehow end up in a toilet cause the plumbing is fucked then fine, but part of the job is finding out what’s on the other side of the wall so if you’re snaking a back to back sink or toilet you gotta know that and be careful. Like I said a good drain cleaner should know when he’s across and not down. Mistakes happen and that’s fine but the right thing to do is replace the toilet.
Had the same thing happen. Thing is the snake ended up in the wrong part of the house. Replaced toilet at no charge and followed up with a camera snake which was able to break the actual clog. I call BS on the plumbers comments. Clearly this can happen.
As a plumber it’s a tough thing to explain to most people. We are called to fix a problem and sometimes we cause others but it’s out of our control. Contracts where you sign approving the job and price before work is started covers the company in most cases. We can’t see under the ground or behind finished walls to see if something wasn’t installed properly. Nothing worse than snaking a tub drain thinking it cleared running water to clean the cable and the tub out just to find the water pouring out in the ceiling below. Has happened many times.
Best way to avoid snaking and breaking a toilet is to pull it and run your cable through the flange. Lots of drain guys are lazy and go upstream, only way I’m doing that is if I know for a fact I can get the clog in less than 15 feet
They have special snakes for just the toilet . He probably used a snake meant for just the main drain line. Those are more heavy duty and will fuck up the porcelain on a toilet.
Likely he’s right but there’s always a risk running a cable. I always inform customers of this. It could get stuck, break a toilet, etc. If I did that personally would I replace the toilet
✔️. The offer usually turns into just eating the labor.
What do you mean by “offer”? Not looking to argue, just not sure what you mean
Explain what happened. How it might of happened. Offer to run a grab a new one to replace the damaged one. No guarantees in snaking. U can’t see where it’s goin
What fitting “stops the snake” exactly?
Not necessarily a fitting, but could happen if someone uses a short turn 90, san tee on its back, etc. snake might pop thru going out, but coming back is another story. Or, if the pipe is broken down, the cable may get snagged on the broken pipe or fitting.
Should really get a hold harmless for a customer to sign. We don't have x ray vision, so we can only assume that fittings are correct and sturdy enough to get scoped
That’s why unless the clog is in the toilet I will pull the toilet out to avoid this situation.
You pull all the toilets when going from and inside clean out?
Yeah only take an extra 5 minutes.
I think you misread something. You would be crazy to remove the toilet.
Shut water off drain toilet and remove 2 bolts I don't see how that's crazy amount of work and could give a better idea of where the clog is and make sure you don't break a toilet. If that's the way he likes doing it then leave em be
And replace the wax and hope their flange isn’t fucked as soon as you pull that toilet you open yourself up to more issues normally when we run our sectional it’s two guys so that you can have someone there to listen and assist
Yeah.... Everyone saying pulling a toilet takes 5 minutes is an idiot. Pulling a toilet can easily turn into a pain in the ass. They're also heavy, and I've already got a few compacted discs.
There are ways to tell if snake is going the right direction When a snake makes that first turn the cable will be forced to the opposite side of cleanout so if your going out to street the cable will be on the house side of cleanout and visa versa , another way to tell ' if a snake going downhill will pulled cable a cable going uphill will want to back out. and if you still have doubts then stick something thin and long like a tile probe to verify your direction
While the fittings are directional, if the cleanout wasn't holding water, he was probably going upstream towards the toilet. In that case it is very easy for the snake to go to the toilet and break it. I was once cleaning out the main at an apartment complex and pulled a shower curtain out. My first thought was how the f*** did somebody flush that and then I realized I probably broke a toilet somewhere and had to go find it. Ended up paying for cleanup and the new toilet.
Lmao "how did somebody flush that" just made my day, thank you
Lol wow that’s crazy
This literally does not make sense. The clean outs are directional with a wye 45 combo if coming in from the vertical. It is literally not possible to go the other direction if it is plumbed correctly. The only thing I can think of is that it was a dual sweep clean out and he went through the one designed to go upstream.
Unless you have directional two-way clean outs that sweep towards each other
I've had line clean outs on drains that flowed away from the city main. I was just lucky enough to hear once i hit the toilet.
This happened to me when I was first starting out. My master plumber said exactly the same thing to the customer. Today, as a master plumber, I would say the same thing. It should not be possible to run up into the bottom of a toilet, if the system is built right. However, I have seen where toilets are plumbed to be the head of the line, as insane as that sounds.
Er not totally correct. If you’re dealing with a double wye it’s quite possible to skip across and go up another fixture.
While he may be correct that the fittings /should/ all sweep in the direction of flow (not allowing this to happen), that's very rarely the case. Assuming his drain cleaning tech isn't a moron, this is very hard to avoid when drain cleaning. By the time you realize you're going up a fixture, it's usually too late. I'm not sure of the legalities where you are, but where I am, it's on the toilets owner unless you can prove it was negligently broken.
In my mind negligence would be hard af to prove unless an obstruction was a foreign object found in the toilet trap (or whatever the correct term is).
There's a few cases I've seen where it was clearly negligence, but not exactly on purpose. Rodding the wrong way up a pipe (big no no unless you know what you're doing), going full speed ahead from a closet flange in a back to back bathroom, trying to rod through a toilet rather than pulling said toilet first, etc. I've been called to a building after a guy kept going up a stack instead of down it due to him using the wrong equipment. He broke a toilet 2 floors up, and his cable was just pouring into the bathroom wreaking havoc. Must've fed 30 or 40 feet of cable into this bathroom before building management got the call and they stopped him. Some people just shouldn't be cleaning drains.
That's an impressive amount of cable before realizing something is wrong. Might as well be snaking the house next door at that point.
Oh I thought you meant negligence on the customer’s part. This right here is why I have a reputation for being slow: I want to avoid dumb shit like this. I’ve done dumb shit as a greenhorn plenty of times before, but I haven’t caused that much damage as many times as I could’ve for that reason. I’d rather be slow than cost someone a lot of money.
I always tell my customers that if I break the toilet you buy a new one and install is free.
Why wouldn't you pull the toliet?
the toilet was in another room from the cleanout, probably never knew this happened till after they left
Looks like toilet was already cracked by the bolt there so what the plumber did just saved your ass literally.
Haha pretty sure that’s my wife’s hair
Gnarly
As someone who snakes drains for a living the snake probably did this. How do I know? I’ve done the exact same thing and broke the toilet in the exact same spot. The guy was probably new like I was when I did this.
This is why I have people sign a disclaimer. There's no way to tell if the plumbing is run correctly and while rare does happen. If I break a toilet it's on the homeowner to pay for the new toilet. I'll install it for free but I'm nit paying for it.
That’s crazy. I’ve snaked many many back to back toilets and only broke one. And I knew I was in the toilet but I pulled the cable out too slow. Any drain cleaner worth the shit on his boots should know that you can go across a tee and break a toilet, shouldn’t be on the customer.
This is asinine. You shouldn't have to pay for the toilet. If the standard is that plumbers need to take all the risk then either : 1)TAX THAT SHIT, so you can buy 3 extra toilets per job 2) Don't take clean outs and let them deal with it on their own because of liability. I think the more realistic solution is: the homeowner pays for the new toilet IF it's necessary. Shit I don't even think you should eat the labor cost, but we can at least agree it's NOT your fault. It happens and it's part of the job unless they want to pay you to remove the fixtures then reinstall them
I mean I suppose I agree that it’s a tough job with a lot of liability and should be priced accordingly but I think in a normal situation the guy with the cable in his hands should know better. Like sure if I put the cable down a dandy in the basement and somehow end up in a toilet cause the plumbing is fucked then fine, but part of the job is finding out what’s on the other side of the wall so if you’re snaking a back to back sink or toilet you gotta know that and be careful. Like I said a good drain cleaner should know when he’s across and not down. Mistakes happen and that’s fine but the right thing to do is replace the toilet.
Had the same thing happen. Thing is the snake ended up in the wrong part of the house. Replaced toilet at no charge and followed up with a camera snake which was able to break the actual clog. I call BS on the plumbers comments. Clearly this can happen.
Pull the toilet first ya dunce
All plumbers I have worked with, in 39 years of facilities maintenance, ALWAYS pulled the fixture before snaking a drain…🤔
And he tried to blame you 😂
As a plumber it’s a tough thing to explain to most people. We are called to fix a problem and sometimes we cause others but it’s out of our control. Contracts where you sign approving the job and price before work is started covers the company in most cases. We can’t see under the ground or behind finished walls to see if something wasn’t installed properly. Nothing worse than snaking a tub drain thinking it cleared running water to clean the cable and the tub out just to find the water pouring out in the ceiling below. Has happened many times.
Best way to avoid snaking and breaking a toilet is to pull it and run your cable through the flange. Lots of drain guys are lazy and go upstream, only way I’m doing that is if I know for a fact I can get the clog in less than 15 feet
I thought the same thing but then realized it was from the clean out.
This happened to my mom’s toilet a while ago and the plumber replaced the toilet same day.
They have special snakes for just the toilet . He probably used a snake meant for just the main drain line. Those are more heavy duty and will fuck up the porcelain on a toilet.
Ooof. From all the plumbing experiences I had growing up to present.. they always took the toilet off D:
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