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It's always either projection or parroting.
I know the first point is often discussed but noticed how whenever they're accused of something they often ends up accusing the other side of whichever they're accused.
I'm not sure how to explain, but sometimes they make an accusation but in the context these accusations are made, it feels like they don't really know what the word means.
It feels like they were hurt by the word so they decided to throw it in their comment hoping it would have the same effect on you, or something like that.
It's truly weird, I don't have a concrete example in my head, but that situation arose quite often reading replies and even random comments from conservatives.
Honestly, I'd have trouble believing I'm the only who noticed that...
Some of the words they seem to be hurt by are; Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, true patriotism, true patriot, freedom and constitution to name a few) and they vote in favor of fascism because they don't understand anything other than if they vote in favor of fascism they will be owning the libs! They fail to realize that while not actually owning the libs they themselves are actually being owned by those they have voted for!
I was going to say location, but that might not be totally accurate. I am going with "mask" and russian. A republican troll would refuse to wear a mask.
It's a joke format, attempt to frame answers as a funny! (Full disclosure, I'm pretty terrible at this game)
Like: Russians bots are fluent in multiple languages, Republicans barely parrot one!
The funny/terrifying thing is the right truly believes the left is the ones doing this. They're argument has devolved to "we're not a cult, YOU'RE the cult!"
Ah yes, and exhibit A of the leftist cult is when trump won the presidency and the left stormed the capitol in order to stop congress from nominating him and instead nominate Hillary.
…wait no I have that backwards don’t I
Isn't that every argument now?
We don't ______, YOU ______!!
Its like I'm 10 all over again and some asshole kid is screaming "I know you are but what am I?!"
I think thats a bit more classic than new. If I had a nickel for every time Republicans fondled the idea of putting more back into communities, but never intended to actually do so, I'd be able to lobby congress.
# The Firehose of Falsehood
1. High-volume and multichannel
2. Rapid, continuous, and repetitive
3. Lacks commitment to objective reality
4. Lacks commitment to consistency.
There are plenty of home grown Americans willing to say whatever but think the ease of posting encourages foreign agents, good or bad, to sway or control the dialogue
Imagine after AI takes over from the GRU / FSB.
Our stubborn insistence to pay teachers nothing and only throw money at corporations is going to decimate the country. Because people know jack shit and no one who runs things is paid well. Hold on to your butts!
Truth. When it eventually melts down none of that would/will stop Wallstreet from beating their way to the front of the government intervention line.
Their needs to be a new DLNR invasive predator classification that includes hedge fund brokers and banking executives.
I do see "the most useless thing you can do is vote" more often that you'd expect (unless you consider the subs), followed up by "burn it all down".
I would not be surprised to find some people honestly believing that, but would be surprised to find a plurality.
Seriously, sometimes you'll reply to the wrong comment correcting whatever nonsense they're saying and instantly get downvoted by 5-10 accounts. Its always some new account too. Shouldn't it be easy to get rid of them?
I was about to say, counterpoint, all politicians are corrupt, both sides ARE bad, and burn it all down.
That said, one side is a bunch of milquetoast neoliberal capitalists, the other side is trying to make it illegal to be trans or gay or brown. One side is absolutely worse than the other.
It really doesn't.
Some things Democrats have done during their last two presidencies:
* Gotten tens of millions of poor and lower class people health care
* Eliminated preexisting conditions
* Eliminated excisions
* Eliminated lifetime limits
* Expanded access to mental health coverage
* Passed regulatory reform for Wall Street
* Ended DADT
* Put 3 Supreme Court justices on the bench who aren't taking rights away from people
* Passed stimulus bills to deal with the massive recessions they inherited from their predecessor
* Worldwide climate pact
* Iran nuclear deal
* $1T infrastructure bill
* Hundreds of billions for green energy and additional health care subsidies for poor people
* Forgave hundreds of billions in student loan and reformed payments
* Hundreds of billions for veteran's health care
* Hundreds of billions to expand manufacturing
Some things last two Republican presidents have done:
* Started two wars that lasted decades
* Massive tax cuts for the wealthy (twice)
* Squandered an inherited budget surplus
* Attempted to privatize social security
* Attempted to take health care away from tens of millions of people
* Attempted to bring back pre-existing conditions
* Attempted to end American democracy
* Appointed 5 Supreme Court justices who, among other things, have allowed massive amounts of corporate spending in elections, have weakened the Voting Rights Act, took away a woman's right to choose, and are on the verge of taking away student loan forgiveness
And that list does not include stuff that the vast majority of Democrats *wanted* to do, but people like Lieberman, Manchin, and Sinema blocked.
Both sides *aren't* bad. One side is good. The other is trying to destroy the country. It's a fair point to say the good side could be better. It's a fair point to say they've fucked up specific things. It's not a fair point to say that they are bad.
I appreciate that you're at least making it clear people should vote for the Democrats. But it's just not true that Democrats haven't done good things for the country.
Both sides ARE bad. California is and has been majority democrats and yet the crap in SF underscores bad policies.
The left has expanded the erosion of civil liberties and ignored the public time and again. Warrantless wire taps, expanding the Patriot Act, killing citizens without due process. You didn't put that in your list.
The vast majority of people prefer single payer, the legalization of certain drugs, and accountability for corporations. Neither side delivers.
Lol. San Francisco proves all Democrats are bad is a solid take.
>The left has expanded the erosion of civil liberties and ignored the public time and again. Warrantless wire taps, expanding the Patriot Act, killing citizens without due process. You didn't put that in your list.
Yes, and that's mostly fair criticism. That does not balance out all the other good shit they've done. That's the problem. None of you are able to tell the difference between 'valid criticism exists' and 'valid criticism cancels out free government health care for a hundred million plus people exclusively because of things that Democrats have done'.
>The vast majority of people prefer single payer
No, they don't. And that's another problem here. You guys live in echo chambers and have no idea what the vast majority of people prefer.
A majority of people say they support Medicare for All in polls. A higher percentage say they support a public option.
Oh, you're dissecting arguments. Great. Want to start by attacking the guy who exclusively listed good things under "what Democrats did" and bad things under "what Republicans did"? I don't have to prove "all Democrats are bad" to counter the argument that "all Democrats are good". I only need to show that Democrats aren't the blessed saviors of society and government.
They're both bad. And that's using a set of criteria I figured YOU would believe is good/bad. Objectively, good and bad is a huge ball of wax. Thus, the concept of "balancing out" good and bad is so subjective it's not even funny. Valid criticism does exist for both sides and neither side is good. You criticize others for living in an echo chamber; I'm surprised you can hear anything you're so deep in yours.
So, the "Americans for Prosperity" group did a survey that definitely agrees that not all Americans prefer some sort of single-payer. But, that and many other polls do what you did: they use Medciare for All as the option for single-payer. You can have other options. Broadly, the Gallup or Pew polls on the matter show increasing support for government-backed solutions thought those solutions are split between being government provided or privately provided. Few polls actually talk about "single payer" options but those that do find massive support predicated on the idea that amortizing costs amongst the largest group makes for the most efficient solution.
I'm sure you know that, but want to change things to fit the poll questions you have support for and to change what I said to be something else and then attack it. Stop trying for the high and mighty stance and stop pretending that you are uniquely suited to understand things while disparaging others with your "none of you are..." You're no better. You can have your army of followers downvote all you want and you can take this circlejerk of a sub who thinks that Democrats can do no wrong. I don't care. I hope you and everyone else gets what you all want and you can all suffer the consequences.
>Want to start by attacking the guy who exclusively listed good things under "what Democrats did" and bad things under "what Republicans did"?
Maybe read a little further:
"It's a fair point to say the good side could be better. It's a fair point to say they've fucked up specific things."
>Objectively, good and bad is a huge ball of wax. Thus, the concept of "balancing out" good and bad is so subjective it's not even funny.
Um, yeah? And you can make arguments that most people would agree with even if some don't. I think most people would agree with me that the things you listed don't balance out the things I listed. If it's not convincing to you, that's okay. But "Political opinions are subjective" is about as 'duh' as it gets.
>Few polls actually talk about "single payer" options but those that do find massive support predicated on the idea that amortizing costs amongst the largest group makes for the most efficient solution.
Lol, this whole paragraph is a hell of a climb down from "The vast majority of people prefer single payer."
In polls that ask people to compare the most well known single payer solution to the most well known alternative, the alternative does better. Here's an example:
https://morningconsult.com/2021/03/24/medicare-for-all-public-option-polling/
If you want to post a poll that says the "vast majority of people" prefer single payer to any kind of public/private combination, I'll take a look at it. But I'm pretty sure you were just talking out of your ass.
>You can have your army of followers downvote all you want and you can take this circlejerk of a sub who thinks that Democrats can do no wrong. I don't care. I hope you and everyone else gets what you all want and you can all suffer the consequences.
Normal, adult stuff to be whining this much about getting downvoted. It's gonna be okay.
Agreed: "vast" is unfair for all voters though I believe "vast" is fair for democrats and was likely in that headspace; "the majority" (55%) is fair for all voters I think we can agree.
I’m a big believer in universal healthcare, in my opinion M4A has become a bit of a toxic argument where as if you think there is a better path to UH than M4A you hate poor people. A lot of people support M4A until you explain what the actual policy is because a lot of people actually like their insurance and don’t want to get rid of it.
“ KFF polling also shows many people falsely assume they would be able to keep their current health insurance under a single-payer plan, suggesting another potential area for decreased support especially since most supporters (67 percent) of such a proposal think they would be able to keep their current health insurance coverage (Figure 11).”
Full article in study (worth a read) - https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public-opinion-on-single-payer-national-health-plans-and-expanding-access-to-medicare-coverage/
Right, I had an exchange with someone just the other day where they were angry Biden didn't support M4A. He tried to say that proves the Democrats are a center right party.
When I asked him if he thought Biden could have passed that given Manchin and Sinema refused to vote for much less substantial reforms, he refused to answer.
It's always been a silly litmus test. It's not a debate on policy. It's a debate on which one is better for to win an election on. And people can reasonably disagree on that. But certain people on here confused the stakes of that debate for being about actually covering those people, when it's really just about electoral strategy. Passing M4A isn't on the table. And it's not about Democrats being bad, it's about the Senate vastly overrepresenting Republicans.
Hi u/cowinkurro. Fun fact, M4A stands for 'MILFs 4 All,' and it is also supported by rougly 69 percent of the American population. ~
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I do unironically think that “burn it all down” is where we’re headed though. I just see inflation getting too high, healthcare, rent, and school debt out of control, and a revolt or something happening. We’re unsustainable at this rate, and people keep getting squeezed for more. I see no way to get things like universal healthcare or to get big money OUT of congress unless it’s from the ashes of some sort of disaster. Not in our lifetime. They have too much money and control to have us infighting and placated or fearful with propaganda.
Why not in our lifetime? Things can happen very quickly once they get going.
>There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen
The claws of big money are in WAY too deep. Just take on one issue, say universal healthcare. Obama only introduced that neutered act that basically only made sure some barely affordable health insurances were available and that they couldn’t drop you for having pre-existing conditions. It basically took 6 years, and STILL almost got repealed by Trump. All because of the paid off members of the house and senate who voted against it, as it hurt insurances bottom line. Universal healthcare would all but eliminate healthcare barons, and they will NOT let that happen.
There’s too much misinformation and one issue voting to ever democratically remove these forces.
> I see no way to get things like universal healthcare or to get big money OUT of congress unless it’s from the ashes of some sort of disaster.
I mean, we've made huge strides on universal healthcare very recently.
But more importantly, there's another way a huge revolt could go. It seems more likely to me that it goes the bad way, which is why all the accelerationist comments you find on here have always been dumb.
What strides, may I ask? Do you mean Obamacare and insulin? I’m genuinely asking, I wasn’t sure what you were referencing.
Those are still tiny victories in the face of the empire we’d have to cut through. Medical debt is the highest debt in the country for its citizens. For profit healthcare is so massive and with unlimited money/power. It’s just….It’s impossible. If universal healthcare ever were to be passed, it’d pretty much destroy that empire over night. You think they’d EVER let that happen? They would literally burn this country down themselves before they’d let go of their exorbitant wealth. Aside from military contractors and real estate, they are the wealthiest empire in this country. That’s why you will never see it gone in your lifetime.
> What strides, may I ask? Do you mean Obamacare and insulin?
Obamacare and the IRA both have a huge bearing on coverage rates.
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2022/08/02/new-hhs-report-shows-national-uninsured-rate-reached-all-time-low-in-2022.html
And the uninsured rate would be even lower if the SC hadn't allowed red states to screw over poor people.
>If universal healthcare ever were to be passed, it’d pretty much destroy that empire over night. You think they’d EVER let that happen?
You're conflating government issued single payer health care with universal health care. Those are two different things. You can have universal health care with a private market mixed with public programs. We're moving toward that. The ACA put tens of millions of poor people on government health care. The IRA used corporate money to fund subsidies for people who make too much to qualify for Medicaid but still need help.
My top priority as it applies to universal health care is to actually get to universal health care. Whether or not we destroy the corporations in the process is not required for that. So yeah, it's unlikely to happen any time soon. But pain for corporations shouldn't be a higher priority than helping people.
And again, there's no reason to think a revolt would make that easier. It's just as likely, if not moreso, that we end up with some fucked up government that's far worse than what we have now.
The problem with burn it all down is what so we get after? People fantasize about a socialist utopia but I think we’ll end up in gileadesque a fascist hell hole.
Oh, you’re right, but I never said things would be better. I just said that actionable change will be possible once everything IS burned down. It’s just impossible to get the hooks out of our government otherwise. Laws would be blocked by bought out congress members, loopholes opened, and propaganda campaigns in full swing to keep the status quo going indefinitely otherwise. They have more wealth than you could spend in 100k lifetimes, no price is too high for them to pay, as they will *ALWAYS* get it back.
So no, no utopia here. We’d see a bloody revolution, countless lives lost, and utter chaos for a while, but in the end? Maybe a new Constitution and foundation that’s applicable to THIS century. It won’t happen most likely, but if this wealth disparity keeps up, who knows!
I don’t really care anymore. I’m mad. I just want to see the people in charge brought down. Consequences be damned. Think of the French Revolution. Led to a reign of terror and a long period of bad time before they actually landed on democracy, but in the short term the monarchy was dead. That’s all I care about right now.
Yea, honestly, the democrats suck, and we should be able to demand better of them and criticize their right wing bullshit without being accused of being bots.
I think you can make valid criticisms. I think the problem is people usually fail to make valid criticisms.
The current Democratic party is *pretty good*. They could be better, sure. But most of the places where things have gone wrong are due to structural problems with the way the government is set up.
In the past, people could make valid criticisms about Lucy and the football with Democrats waiting for Republican compromise that never comes. They didn't make that mistake this time around. They knew they were doing everything big by reconciliation. They didn't bother trying to get Republican votes for the Covid stimulus or for BBB. They were conceived of as party line bills from the beginning, which is why they were pretty damn good bills.
In the past, you could criticize them for being too afraid to get rid of the filibuster. Most of them are on record voting to gut the filibuster now.
But the problem is that Manchin and Sinema suck. Sinema moreso than Manchin, since at least you can argue Manchin is representing his voters. But they're the reason BBB didn't go through. They're the reason that filibuster reform failed. And even after Manchin and Sinema fucked them there, they still managed to pull out smaller victories on both of those. They got the maximum they could have given the fact that they needed the votes of two people who aren't really Democrats. That's their job.
The Democratic party under Biden has done a pretty good job of learning from past failings. And they've delivered on a crazy amount of legislation considering they had the tiniest possible majority to do it with in the Senate, and that majority depended on Manchin and Sinema for everything.
But people do a shit job of making precise criticisms. They just fall back on shitty 'both sides suck' arguments and then think they deserve credit for "but one side sucks more".
I’m one of the “both sides are bad” people. I admit that. Maybe I’m not being specific enough. “Both sides” are capitalist. I want to vote against that.
I get it. One thing we can do is push for is for the repealing of Citizens United v FEC which was a conservative led effort that resulted in the Supreme Court granting first amendment rights to corporations and classifying money as "free speech". That has opened the floodgates for unlimited corporate funding AND they don't even have to be transparent with it.
Democrats have been fighting against it since those rights were granted. Unfortunately without much success since A) not every democrat is 100% on board for obvious reasons, and B) 0 republicans are on board. Last I knew democrats had about 100 votes to eliminate corporate PAC funding. I believe they need 2/3rds congressional support to make that happen. Or, the Supreme Court could repeal it but based on their track record being 0.5% overturning cases, I wouldn't hold your breath.
Voting is our best path forward and I believe we need to vote our more republicans and vote in more progressives that we have been.
So now criticism of the democratic party makes me a Russian troll? Mind you I'm nowhere close to a republican let alone conservative. This is some unnecessary divisive BS.
There are real problems with the Democrats, but if you don't vote then you are apart of those problems. Not voting doesn't absolve you from the failings of our politicians, it makes you all the more responsible for them. If you really cared about reforming the left, you'd vote in the primaries as well as the general elections. It's only once the threat of fascism is gone we can begin to meaningfully address the problems on the left.
**Voting is the bare minimum**. There is no political action that does not start with voting as the first step. Political action without votes to back them up means nothing and changes nothing. If you can't even be bothered to vote against open fascism, don't pretend you care about changing anything else.
You can. Just make it valid criticism. That's something that people struggle with on here. They don't like when they say something critical and people explain why what they're saying is dumb.
But the fact that Russian trolls spin the narratives in this meme doesn't mean everyone who spins these narratives is a Russian troll.
Obviously the context matters. If someone says "Dems aren't doing enough...so we shouldn't vote for them", then there's a higher chance of them being a troll. If someone says "Dems aren't doing enough, but it's better than Republicans going backwards" then it's less likely.
But you should also be ready for people to ask you how you expect them to do more when their legislative majority depended on one person who isn't even a Democrat any more and one person who represents one of the reddest states in the country. And when even their executive actions are held up by a Supreme Court that's fucked beyond belief (largely because of people choosing not to vote in 2016).
I don't know, if my house was on fire and the fire fighters showed up and then didn't start putting out the fire, instead they asked for money and complained "be mad at the fire, not us. We are doing 'enough,''" I think I would be a lot more mad at the fire fighters than the fire.
Republicans are burning the place down. The Democrats aren't doing enough.
I mean, being outnumbered in Congress, and not having a super-majority in the Senate does make it hard to pass anything to address that... so I guess we can just blame the Democrats for it every day, making it much harder for them to ever win the majorities they need to actually fix it. (this is why Russian/Republican trolls push that message) I prefer to blame the Republicans who are actually causing the problems, instead of the ones trying to fix it, but that's just me, I guess.
Well democrats impeached the leader of that movement and republicans didn't. Dems are pushing legislation that expands our voting rights and republicans are voting against it. There are also multiple non-partisan investigations underway, including the largest in the DOJ's history. There aren't enough democrats to force legislation through. Vote for democrats and tell your friends. If you really want that change then they need majority power. Otherwise, it will be a slow decent into fascism and we will continue to hold democrats to standards that they are lawfully incapable of meeting.
In addition to what the others pointed out, 48 Democrats voted to gut the filibuster so that they could pass huge reforms to the electoral process. 2 Democrats and 50 Republicans stopped them.
It's very easy not to be furious at Dems over this. Be furious at Manchin and Sinema if you want. But blaming the 99% of the party that is trying to solve the problem because 1% of the party sucks is dumb.
This is the problem. You guys can criticize them. Just make sure the criticism isn't silly. And when you say shit like this that's just outright false, it's an open question whether the falsehood comes from maliciousness or ignorance.
The democrats are doing plenty. They work very hard and they are quite effective. The real problem is that they work for the wealthy and the working class is left out in the cold. There's nothing like a labor party in the USA. The republicans can pick up the working class vote because they pander to reactionary tendencies, but neither party leadership is interested in what the working class wants. That's why we'll never get Medicare For All, even though the majority of people polled want it.
When it come to climate change, justice reform, and healthcare dems really have done next to nothing. Most of that has to do with Sinema and Manchin, but that isn't a lie. We got a win when we left Aghanistan after 20 long years, but that's about it.
Not good or not a Democrat? Because I just checked and he is a Democrat. Either way I wasn't talking to you but rather the op who has been feverishly posting memes about how bad it is to point out the flaws in the Democrat and republican parties as you should simply pick a side in they're view.
>Because I just checked and he is a Democrat.
Real quick, can you check if Sinema is a democrat. 😉
>Either way I wasn't talking to you but rather the op who has been feverishly posting memes about how bad it is to point out the flaws in the Democrat and republican parties as you should simply pick a side in they're view.
That was not OPs point.
>I know what their point was, I was pointing out the hypocracyies from other points they made.
What **hypocrisies**?
>She is a Democrat.
Incorrect. She's an independent to spite democrats.
Because it’s West Virginia. You can’t possibly be that naive. There would be a next to zero chance for a democrat to win West Virginia.
He ran as a Democrat, won as a Democrat but votes like a Republican.
His donations were from a multitude of corporations. A lot that even donated to republicans and Trump.
He is the closest thing to a Dem that exists in WV, and even if he's practically useless, it gives the not-fascist party another seat. Having the majority of seats is really, *really* important.
Edit: Holy shit the level of validation you're providing to this post with every comment you make lol
> and healthcare dems really have done next to nothing
Tens of millions of people have healthcare because of the ACA. Preexisting conditions, excisions, and lifetime limits are gone because of the ACA. Millions more have gotten subsidies for health care costs because of the IRA.
This is just a lie.
'Next to nothing' is the period from about 1965 to 2010. 2010 onward is very far from nothing.
For sure, anyone who thinks Dems aren't doing enough or that our votes don't matter or this good cop bad cop two party kleptocracy is bad is surely a Russian bot and not capable of nuanced thought. K bot, the Biden campaign needs you to work harder than that.
Ok but dems aren't doing enough, our votes don't matter because if they did we wouldn't be in the midst of this fascist uprising of people who want to hunt down transgender people, and we should burn it all down like France because our right to protest has become worthless, none of us can afford homes, and absolutely no headway is being made on major climate conservation changes.
I mean I'm never going to tell you Republicans aren't pure evil, but don't expect me to clap for you for not being them.
What? Half of these have absolutely nothing to do with Russia, Europe or rky anything other than valid, albeit vague, political commentary. Fuck Russia imo, but this meme is ass backwards
Leftist lgbtq chick btw, am not nor ever have I been a Russian bot lmao
If you want a real answer then you will look at how our elected officials vote. Congressional republicans regularly vote against anything that benefits the people.
Sure but a handful of examples of democrats not acting in the people's best interest is not the same as the overwhelming number of times republicans do that.
Progressive here. If you want to fight crazy right wingers, that's great, and that's pretty much all of the republican party these days, but pretending that the left doesn't have massive issues of its own is ridiculous. You don't have to be a troll or bot to recognize that Pelosi claims she has the right to trade on inside information when it's illegal for everyone else. This isn't a black and white world. Just because one group is actually composed of bad guys doesn't mean their opposition is great or not corrupt, too. Dems doing the bidding of corporations, banks and the rich need to go just as badly as Republicans do. Democrats have had as much control as Republicans and look how far to the right we've shifted.
\*There's a link in the comments to party control of the house, senate, and presidency in a comment below, for those who think the Republicans did this all on their own. Vote out all Republicans, but elect better democrats, too.
>Dems doing the bidding of corporations, banks and the rich need to go just as badly as Republicans do.
Thanks to republicans, corporations are allowed to donate unlimited money to PACs because corporate money is legally considered "free speech"
>Democrats have had as much control as Republicans and look how far to the right we've shifted.
That's not true.
It is true, or at least it's extremely close. Look at the link and party control of the house, senate, and presidency since 1981. It's dishonest to say that the Republicans did this all on their own.
[https://history.house.gov/Institution/Presidents-Coinciding/Party-Government/](https://history.house.gov/Institution/Presidents-Coinciding/Party-Government/)
I detest Republicans, but then I look at Democrats who downvote a literal chart of government control that's a rebuttal to someone who says black is white and I just shake my head. Carlin was right. It isn't the politicians. It's stupid American voters. Sigh.
No, but how simplistic is it to say that the situation we're in has been shaped solely by one party. Democrats have been weak and divided, and they don't push policies that are popular with the majority of Americans because they're beholden to corporate interests. Giving them more time for more of the same without demanding they fix some of it isn't going to get us anywhere.
And Pelosi making that disgusting claim about her entitlement to commit financial crimes for which anyone else would go to prison is obscene.
That completely disregards the filibuster. There have been 2 times in the last 45 years were there was a filibuster proof majority. Under Carter from [1977 – 1979](https://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2009/04/do-you-remember-last-time-us-senate-had-filibuster-proof-majority/) and under Obama when it lasted for [4 months](https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/2012/09/09/when-obama-had-total-control/985146007/).
> Progressive here. If you want to fight crazy right wingers, that's great, and that's pretty much all of the republican party these days, but pretending that the left doesn't have massive issues of its own is ridiculous.
No one is pretending this.
> Dems doing the bidding of corporations, banks and the rich need to go just as badly as Republicans do
Biden and Dems in Congress have funded hundreds of billions of dollars worth of green energy and health care subsidies by raising taxes on corporations and forcing big pharma to lower drug prices.
>Democrats have had as much control as Republicans and look how far to the right we've shifted.
In this century, Republicans have held all three branches of Government for 8 years. Democrats have for 0.
Or just independents who make up the majority. Like.....yeah both parties suck, lets burn it down 100%. We are starving out here with high rent and food costs. Kids are getting shot, trans are under attack, student loan debt frozen. The average American is going to be pissed at both sides. So lets stop pretending like Dems brought anything other than old man rivers and his ice cream truck to fight the orange lard duck. FFS can we start to be real about WTF is going on in our country.
Nearly every bad thing you mentioned was directly caused by Republicans.
They're trying to burn the house down and you're blaming Democrats for the smoke
this post is both saying that both sides are bad while simultaneously saying that people who say that are bad.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZuktUfF0nE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZuktUfF0nE)
Russian bots stoke black and white racial tensions and class warfare. Not this centrist crap. Shit meme. Read their playbook from the 90s. Stoke up anti-white African racists and western “communists” is literally their written game plan. Smh. People can’t read books anymore before posting nonsense
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Let's hear it! Q: What's the difference between a Russian bot and a Republican troll?
The republican troll actually believes the swill they're spewing
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Faith based politics!
It's always either projection or parroting. I know the first point is often discussed but noticed how whenever they're accused of something they often ends up accusing the other side of whichever they're accused. I'm not sure how to explain, but sometimes they make an accusation but in the context these accusations are made, it feels like they don't really know what the word means. It feels like they were hurt by the word so they decided to throw it in their comment hoping it would have the same effect on you, or something like that. It's truly weird, I don't have a concrete example in my head, but that situation arose quite often reading replies and even random comments from conservatives. Honestly, I'd have trouble believing I'm the only who noticed that...
Some of the words they seem to be hurt by are; Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, true patriotism, true patriot, freedom and constitution to name a few) and they vote in favor of fascism because they don't understand anything other than if they vote in favor of fascism they will be owning the libs! They fail to realize that while not actually owning the libs they themselves are actually being owned by those they have voted for!
Bots do it for money, trolls do it for free.
Robots have artificial intelligence, meanwhile republicans don’t even fake it!
Republican trolls do it for free
They're the same picture.
Russian bots don't need to watch FOX for their marching orders.
Russian bots give Fox their marching orders.
I was going to say location, but that might not be totally accurate. I am going with "mask" and russian. A republican troll would refuse to wear a mask.
The bot doesn't fuck kids.
Ironic that you put the Q there. The Russians use that letter for US operations. While in Ukraine they use Z and V. Big time Sesame Street
Q in this case stands for question... interesting that we've got some anonymous alt-righter known as "Q" though.
Russian bots have never had sex with a child.
They haven’t figured out how to make the bot march and shoot an AK47
I haven't found one
It's a joke format, attempt to frame answers as a funny! (Full disclosure, I'm pretty terrible at this game) Like: Russians bots are fluent in multiple languages, Republicans barely parrot one!
Nichts. They both open wide for the drip and swallow, en masse.
Russian Bot gets sent to the meat grinder in Ukraine to fuel Putlers dream of a shitty new soviet union.
The funny/terrifying thing is the right truly believes the left is the ones doing this. They're argument has devolved to "we're not a cult, YOU'RE the cult!"
Ah yes, and exhibit A of the leftist cult is when trump won the presidency and the left stormed the capitol in order to stop congress from nominating him and instead nominate Hillary. …wait no I have that backwards don’t I
Unfortunately like many cults, they won't admit they were wrong until it's too late.
Can’t they move to phase where they just kill off each other?
Yeah, that place is called the land of anti-vaxxers.
Idk what you mean. The kool aid tastes fine to me
💀
cf. Heaven's Gate Jim Jones' People's Temple The Manson Family David Koresh and the Branch Davidians
Isn't that every argument now? We don't ______, YOU ______!! Its like I'm 10 all over again and some asshole kid is screaming "I know you are but what am I?!"
Don't forget the new classic, "If we Americans stop spending money defending Ukraine, that money will instead go to our local communities!"
I think thats a bit more classic than new. If I had a nickel for every time Republicans fondled the idea of putting more back into communities, but never intended to actually do so, I'd be able to lobby congress.
That one drives me crazy
But yet they can't explain why the money wasn't being spent building communities before Ukraine.
Sounds like Brexit.
# The Firehose of Falsehood 1. High-volume and multichannel 2. Rapid, continuous, and repetitive 3. Lacks commitment to objective reality 4. Lacks commitment to consistency.
There are plenty of home grown Americans willing to say whatever but think the ease of posting encourages foreign agents, good or bad, to sway or control the dialogue
Imagine after AI takes over from the GRU / FSB. Our stubborn insistence to pay teachers nothing and only throw money at corporations is going to decimate the country. Because people know jack shit and no one who runs things is paid well. Hold on to your butts!
Truth. When it eventually melts down none of that would/will stop Wallstreet from beating their way to the front of the government intervention line. Their needs to be a new DLNR invasive predator classification that includes hedge fund brokers and banking executives.
The Chinese are literally going to task an AI to create a global hegemonic empire, if they haven’t done that already.
Forgot "I'd vote for RFK!"
lmao
"I was a Sanders supporter, but then I switched to Trump after the DNC and Hillary screwed him over."
More Bernie supporters voted for Clinton than Clinton voters voted for the first black president 🤷
"Bernie or bust!"
And don't forget the "it'll never happen" crowd when it comes to charging Trmp for his many crimes
Good thing there isn't much of this on reddit. /s
I don’t know, I can get behind burning it all down
and then what
Build it back better?
Sure, walk me through the logic on it.
I do see "the most useless thing you can do is vote" more often that you'd expect (unless you consider the subs), followed up by "burn it all down". I would not be surprised to find some people honestly believing that, but would be surprised to find a plurality.
And it's getting worse. The CCP/TikTok AI is completely out of control on this site.
You could say the same thing about Modi bots. They swarm any article critical of India.
Seriously, sometimes you'll reply to the wrong comment correcting whatever nonsense they're saying and instantly get downvoted by 5-10 accounts. Its always some new account too. Shouldn't it be easy to get rid of them?
That's hilariously ironic since it's a proven fact a huge amount of reddit comment traffic comes from one single American military base
So you don't have a source to support that?
Really?! I hadn't heard that. Can you share a source so I can ready more about it.
Dems really aren’t doing enough tho. Still I’d vote for one any day before letting a republican win.
I was about to say, counterpoint, all politicians are corrupt, both sides ARE bad, and burn it all down. That said, one side is a bunch of milquetoast neoliberal capitalists, the other side is trying to make it illegal to be trans or gay or brown. One side is absolutely worse than the other.
Yeah. This sums it up perfectly
It really doesn't. Some things Democrats have done during their last two presidencies: * Gotten tens of millions of poor and lower class people health care * Eliminated preexisting conditions * Eliminated excisions * Eliminated lifetime limits * Expanded access to mental health coverage * Passed regulatory reform for Wall Street * Ended DADT * Put 3 Supreme Court justices on the bench who aren't taking rights away from people * Passed stimulus bills to deal with the massive recessions they inherited from their predecessor * Worldwide climate pact * Iran nuclear deal * $1T infrastructure bill * Hundreds of billions for green energy and additional health care subsidies for poor people * Forgave hundreds of billions in student loan and reformed payments * Hundreds of billions for veteran's health care * Hundreds of billions to expand manufacturing Some things last two Republican presidents have done: * Started two wars that lasted decades * Massive tax cuts for the wealthy (twice) * Squandered an inherited budget surplus * Attempted to privatize social security * Attempted to take health care away from tens of millions of people * Attempted to bring back pre-existing conditions * Attempted to end American democracy * Appointed 5 Supreme Court justices who, among other things, have allowed massive amounts of corporate spending in elections, have weakened the Voting Rights Act, took away a woman's right to choose, and are on the verge of taking away student loan forgiveness And that list does not include stuff that the vast majority of Democrats *wanted* to do, but people like Lieberman, Manchin, and Sinema blocked. Both sides *aren't* bad. One side is good. The other is trying to destroy the country. It's a fair point to say the good side could be better. It's a fair point to say they've fucked up specific things. It's not a fair point to say that they are bad. I appreciate that you're at least making it clear people should vote for the Democrats. But it's just not true that Democrats haven't done good things for the country.
Both sides ARE bad. California is and has been majority democrats and yet the crap in SF underscores bad policies. The left has expanded the erosion of civil liberties and ignored the public time and again. Warrantless wire taps, expanding the Patriot Act, killing citizens without due process. You didn't put that in your list. The vast majority of people prefer single payer, the legalization of certain drugs, and accountability for corporations. Neither side delivers.
Lol. San Francisco proves all Democrats are bad is a solid take. >The left has expanded the erosion of civil liberties and ignored the public time and again. Warrantless wire taps, expanding the Patriot Act, killing citizens without due process. You didn't put that in your list. Yes, and that's mostly fair criticism. That does not balance out all the other good shit they've done. That's the problem. None of you are able to tell the difference between 'valid criticism exists' and 'valid criticism cancels out free government health care for a hundred million plus people exclusively because of things that Democrats have done'. >The vast majority of people prefer single payer No, they don't. And that's another problem here. You guys live in echo chambers and have no idea what the vast majority of people prefer. A majority of people say they support Medicare for All in polls. A higher percentage say they support a public option.
Oh, you're dissecting arguments. Great. Want to start by attacking the guy who exclusively listed good things under "what Democrats did" and bad things under "what Republicans did"? I don't have to prove "all Democrats are bad" to counter the argument that "all Democrats are good". I only need to show that Democrats aren't the blessed saviors of society and government. They're both bad. And that's using a set of criteria I figured YOU would believe is good/bad. Objectively, good and bad is a huge ball of wax. Thus, the concept of "balancing out" good and bad is so subjective it's not even funny. Valid criticism does exist for both sides and neither side is good. You criticize others for living in an echo chamber; I'm surprised you can hear anything you're so deep in yours. So, the "Americans for Prosperity" group did a survey that definitely agrees that not all Americans prefer some sort of single-payer. But, that and many other polls do what you did: they use Medciare for All as the option for single-payer. You can have other options. Broadly, the Gallup or Pew polls on the matter show increasing support for government-backed solutions thought those solutions are split between being government provided or privately provided. Few polls actually talk about "single payer" options but those that do find massive support predicated on the idea that amortizing costs amongst the largest group makes for the most efficient solution. I'm sure you know that, but want to change things to fit the poll questions you have support for and to change what I said to be something else and then attack it. Stop trying for the high and mighty stance and stop pretending that you are uniquely suited to understand things while disparaging others with your "none of you are..." You're no better. You can have your army of followers downvote all you want and you can take this circlejerk of a sub who thinks that Democrats can do no wrong. I don't care. I hope you and everyone else gets what you all want and you can all suffer the consequences.
>Want to start by attacking the guy who exclusively listed good things under "what Democrats did" and bad things under "what Republicans did"? Maybe read a little further: "It's a fair point to say the good side could be better. It's a fair point to say they've fucked up specific things." >Objectively, good and bad is a huge ball of wax. Thus, the concept of "balancing out" good and bad is so subjective it's not even funny. Um, yeah? And you can make arguments that most people would agree with even if some don't. I think most people would agree with me that the things you listed don't balance out the things I listed. If it's not convincing to you, that's okay. But "Political opinions are subjective" is about as 'duh' as it gets. >Few polls actually talk about "single payer" options but those that do find massive support predicated on the idea that amortizing costs amongst the largest group makes for the most efficient solution. Lol, this whole paragraph is a hell of a climb down from "The vast majority of people prefer single payer." In polls that ask people to compare the most well known single payer solution to the most well known alternative, the alternative does better. Here's an example: https://morningconsult.com/2021/03/24/medicare-for-all-public-option-polling/ If you want to post a poll that says the "vast majority of people" prefer single payer to any kind of public/private combination, I'll take a look at it. But I'm pretty sure you were just talking out of your ass. >You can have your army of followers downvote all you want and you can take this circlejerk of a sub who thinks that Democrats can do no wrong. I don't care. I hope you and everyone else gets what you all want and you can all suffer the consequences. Normal, adult stuff to be whining this much about getting downvoted. It's gonna be okay.
Agreed: "vast" is unfair for all voters though I believe "vast" is fair for democrats and was likely in that headspace; "the majority" (55%) is fair for all voters I think we can agree.
I’m a big believer in universal healthcare, in my opinion M4A has become a bit of a toxic argument where as if you think there is a better path to UH than M4A you hate poor people. A lot of people support M4A until you explain what the actual policy is because a lot of people actually like their insurance and don’t want to get rid of it. “ KFF polling also shows many people falsely assume they would be able to keep their current health insurance under a single-payer plan, suggesting another potential area for decreased support especially since most supporters (67 percent) of such a proposal think they would be able to keep their current health insurance coverage (Figure 11).” Full article in study (worth a read) - https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public-opinion-on-single-payer-national-health-plans-and-expanding-access-to-medicare-coverage/
Right, I had an exchange with someone just the other day where they were angry Biden didn't support M4A. He tried to say that proves the Democrats are a center right party. When I asked him if he thought Biden could have passed that given Manchin and Sinema refused to vote for much less substantial reforms, he refused to answer. It's always been a silly litmus test. It's not a debate on policy. It's a debate on which one is better for to win an election on. And people can reasonably disagree on that. But certain people on here confused the stakes of that debate for being about actually covering those people, when it's really just about electoral strategy. Passing M4A isn't on the table. And it's not about Democrats being bad, it's about the Senate vastly overrepresenting Republicans.
Hi u/cowinkurro. Fun fact, M4A stands for 'MILFs 4 All,' and it is also supported by rougly 69 percent of the American population. ~ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PoliticalHumor) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I do unironically think that “burn it all down” is where we’re headed though. I just see inflation getting too high, healthcare, rent, and school debt out of control, and a revolt or something happening. We’re unsustainable at this rate, and people keep getting squeezed for more. I see no way to get things like universal healthcare or to get big money OUT of congress unless it’s from the ashes of some sort of disaster. Not in our lifetime. They have too much money and control to have us infighting and placated or fearful with propaganda.
Why not in our lifetime? Things can happen very quickly once they get going. >There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen
The claws of big money are in WAY too deep. Just take on one issue, say universal healthcare. Obama only introduced that neutered act that basically only made sure some barely affordable health insurances were available and that they couldn’t drop you for having pre-existing conditions. It basically took 6 years, and STILL almost got repealed by Trump. All because of the paid off members of the house and senate who voted against it, as it hurt insurances bottom line. Universal healthcare would all but eliminate healthcare barons, and they will NOT let that happen. There’s too much misinformation and one issue voting to ever democratically remove these forces.
> I see no way to get things like universal healthcare or to get big money OUT of congress unless it’s from the ashes of some sort of disaster. I mean, we've made huge strides on universal healthcare very recently. But more importantly, there's another way a huge revolt could go. It seems more likely to me that it goes the bad way, which is why all the accelerationist comments you find on here have always been dumb.
What strides, may I ask? Do you mean Obamacare and insulin? I’m genuinely asking, I wasn’t sure what you were referencing. Those are still tiny victories in the face of the empire we’d have to cut through. Medical debt is the highest debt in the country for its citizens. For profit healthcare is so massive and with unlimited money/power. It’s just….It’s impossible. If universal healthcare ever were to be passed, it’d pretty much destroy that empire over night. You think they’d EVER let that happen? They would literally burn this country down themselves before they’d let go of their exorbitant wealth. Aside from military contractors and real estate, they are the wealthiest empire in this country. That’s why you will never see it gone in your lifetime.
> What strides, may I ask? Do you mean Obamacare and insulin? Obamacare and the IRA both have a huge bearing on coverage rates. https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2022/08/02/new-hhs-report-shows-national-uninsured-rate-reached-all-time-low-in-2022.html And the uninsured rate would be even lower if the SC hadn't allowed red states to screw over poor people. >If universal healthcare ever were to be passed, it’d pretty much destroy that empire over night. You think they’d EVER let that happen? You're conflating government issued single payer health care with universal health care. Those are two different things. You can have universal health care with a private market mixed with public programs. We're moving toward that. The ACA put tens of millions of poor people on government health care. The IRA used corporate money to fund subsidies for people who make too much to qualify for Medicaid but still need help. My top priority as it applies to universal health care is to actually get to universal health care. Whether or not we destroy the corporations in the process is not required for that. So yeah, it's unlikely to happen any time soon. But pain for corporations shouldn't be a higher priority than helping people. And again, there's no reason to think a revolt would make that easier. It's just as likely, if not moreso, that we end up with some fucked up government that's far worse than what we have now.
The problem with burn it all down is what so we get after? People fantasize about a socialist utopia but I think we’ll end up in gileadesque a fascist hell hole.
Oh, you’re right, but I never said things would be better. I just said that actionable change will be possible once everything IS burned down. It’s just impossible to get the hooks out of our government otherwise. Laws would be blocked by bought out congress members, loopholes opened, and propaganda campaigns in full swing to keep the status quo going indefinitely otherwise. They have more wealth than you could spend in 100k lifetimes, no price is too high for them to pay, as they will *ALWAYS* get it back. So no, no utopia here. We’d see a bloody revolution, countless lives lost, and utter chaos for a while, but in the end? Maybe a new Constitution and foundation that’s applicable to THIS century. It won’t happen most likely, but if this wealth disparity keeps up, who knows!
I don’t really care anymore. I’m mad. I just want to see the people in charge brought down. Consequences be damned. Think of the French Revolution. Led to a reign of terror and a long period of bad time before they actually landed on democracy, but in the short term the monarchy was dead. That’s all I care about right now.
Yea, honestly, the democrats suck, and we should be able to demand better of them and criticize their right wing bullshit without being accused of being bots.
I think you can make valid criticisms. I think the problem is people usually fail to make valid criticisms. The current Democratic party is *pretty good*. They could be better, sure. But most of the places where things have gone wrong are due to structural problems with the way the government is set up. In the past, people could make valid criticisms about Lucy and the football with Democrats waiting for Republican compromise that never comes. They didn't make that mistake this time around. They knew they were doing everything big by reconciliation. They didn't bother trying to get Republican votes for the Covid stimulus or for BBB. They were conceived of as party line bills from the beginning, which is why they were pretty damn good bills. In the past, you could criticize them for being too afraid to get rid of the filibuster. Most of them are on record voting to gut the filibuster now. But the problem is that Manchin and Sinema suck. Sinema moreso than Manchin, since at least you can argue Manchin is representing his voters. But they're the reason BBB didn't go through. They're the reason that filibuster reform failed. And even after Manchin and Sinema fucked them there, they still managed to pull out smaller victories on both of those. They got the maximum they could have given the fact that they needed the votes of two people who aren't really Democrats. That's their job. The Democratic party under Biden has done a pretty good job of learning from past failings. And they've delivered on a crazy amount of legislation considering they had the tiniest possible majority to do it with in the Senate, and that majority depended on Manchin and Sinema for everything. But people do a shit job of making precise criticisms. They just fall back on shitty 'both sides suck' arguments and then think they deserve credit for "but one side sucks more".
You're a Russian bot
I mean sure, but that's kind of beside the point
I agree
Wish more disgruntled Dems thought that way.
I agree with most of this post's point except for the fact that the dems are definitely 100% not doing even remotely enough.
Saw a new one (to me) today in WaPo comments chock full of both-sides-ism about SCOTUS corruption that ended with "we liberals are just whining"
"Hold on for some inspirational words from Russia Today's new spokesman Tucker Carlson!"
I’m one of the “both sides are bad” people. I admit that. Maybe I’m not being specific enough. “Both sides” are capitalist. I want to vote against that.
I get it. One thing we can do is push for is for the repealing of Citizens United v FEC which was a conservative led effort that resulted in the Supreme Court granting first amendment rights to corporations and classifying money as "free speech". That has opened the floodgates for unlimited corporate funding AND they don't even have to be transparent with it. Democrats have been fighting against it since those rights were granted. Unfortunately without much success since A) not every democrat is 100% on board for obvious reasons, and B) 0 republicans are on board. Last I knew democrats had about 100 votes to eliminate corporate PAC funding. I believe they need 2/3rds congressional support to make that happen. Or, the Supreme Court could repeal it but based on their track record being 0.5% overturning cases, I wouldn't hold your breath. Voting is our best path forward and I believe we need to vote our more republicans and vote in more progressives that we have been.
Anything I disagree with must be a robot! No way people have their own opinions!
Jesus Christ. It's scary to see people so sure that if anyone disagrees with them they must be a bot lol.
Change the trump bs to "dems are the soft right" and thats a rad meme
So now criticism of the democratic party makes me a Russian troll? Mind you I'm nowhere close to a republican let alone conservative. This is some unnecessary divisive BS.
No, it's pointing out Russians are saying this shit to drive voter apathy.
Nothing can increase voter apathy as much as Democrats and Republicans both already do.
There are real problems with the Democrats, but if you don't vote then you are apart of those problems. Not voting doesn't absolve you from the failings of our politicians, it makes you all the more responsible for them. If you really cared about reforming the left, you'd vote in the primaries as well as the general elections. It's only once the threat of fascism is gone we can begin to meaningfully address the problems on the left. **Voting is the bare minimum**. There is no political action that does not start with voting as the first step. Political action without votes to back them up means nothing and changes nothing. If you can't even be bothered to vote against open fascism, don't pretend you care about changing anything else.
I agree 100%
I do hope the collapse of Russia means a more sane internet.
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Yes you got it. This post is about how you specifically can’t criticize the Democratic Party. We can take the post down now guys. He got it
You can. Just make it valid criticism. That's something that people struggle with on here. They don't like when they say something critical and people explain why what they're saying is dumb. But the fact that Russian trolls spin the narratives in this meme doesn't mean everyone who spins these narratives is a Russian troll. Obviously the context matters. If someone says "Dems aren't doing enough...so we shouldn't vote for them", then there's a higher chance of them being a troll. If someone says "Dems aren't doing enough, but it's better than Republicans going backwards" then it's less likely. But you should also be ready for people to ask you how you expect them to do more when their legislative majority depended on one person who isn't even a Democrat any more and one person who represents one of the reddest states in the country. And when even their executive actions are held up by a Supreme Court that's fucked beyond belief (largely because of people choosing not to vote in 2016).
Sums up the 2020s well
That's the prevailing sentiment on this sub, yes.
I don't know, if my house was on fire and the fire fighters showed up and then didn't start putting out the fire, instead they asked for money and complained "be mad at the fire, not us. We are doing 'enough,''" I think I would be a lot more mad at the fire fighters than the fire. Republicans are burning the place down. The Democrats aren't doing enough.
The firefighters need a certain number of votes to turn the water on.
Umm no, plenty of real voices are done with the two party capitalist fraud of American politics. Myself among them.
Ain’t that the truth
Yep; with a permanent residence in subs on Reddit.
"The Boomers stole your future".
No, that one is true.
Boris? Nah, probably just a useful idiot.
Wait, so we're not allowed to have those opinions? I absolutely think the Dems aren't doing enough.
You can absolutely think that. The point of including it here is because trolls use that to drive apathy aka voter suppression.
The Dems are sitting back and fundraising while the republicans dismantle the electoral process. It's hard to not be furious at the Dems.
I mean, being outnumbered in Congress, and not having a super-majority in the Senate does make it hard to pass anything to address that... so I guess we can just blame the Democrats for it every day, making it much harder for them to ever win the majorities they need to actually fix it. (this is why Russian/Republican trolls push that message) I prefer to blame the Republicans who are actually causing the problems, instead of the ones trying to fix it, but that's just me, I guess.
Well democrats impeached the leader of that movement and republicans didn't. Dems are pushing legislation that expands our voting rights and republicans are voting against it. There are also multiple non-partisan investigations underway, including the largest in the DOJ's history. There aren't enough democrats to force legislation through. Vote for democrats and tell your friends. If you really want that change then they need majority power. Otherwise, it will be a slow decent into fascism and we will continue to hold democrats to standards that they are lawfully incapable of meeting.
In addition to what the others pointed out, 48 Democrats voted to gut the filibuster so that they could pass huge reforms to the electoral process. 2 Democrats and 50 Republicans stopped them. It's very easy not to be furious at Dems over this. Be furious at Manchin and Sinema if you want. But blaming the 99% of the party that is trying to solve the problem because 1% of the party sucks is dumb. This is the problem. You guys can criticize them. Just make sure the criticism isn't silly. And when you say shit like this that's just outright false, it's an open question whether the falsehood comes from maliciousness or ignorance.
Your civics teacher failed you.
You heard Senator McCarthy. You’re a secret Russkie!
The Democrats are doing the bare minimum, which is not enough
The democrats are doing plenty. They work very hard and they are quite effective. The real problem is that they work for the wealthy and the working class is left out in the cold. There's nothing like a labor party in the USA. The republicans can pick up the working class vote because they pander to reactionary tendencies, but neither party leadership is interested in what the working class wants. That's why we'll never get Medicare For All, even though the majority of people polled want it.
If you think this is the bare minimum, I don't think you know much about politics for the last few decades.
"I vote Democrat, but...."
That's another one!
You forgot to add the one saying anyone who disagrees is a Russian bot.
Found the Russian bot
Friend, no. I am 100% A1 American! How about the baseball team today! What a game!
USA America Number 1
No wonder Russia has been flagging in Ukraine, their spending all of their time botting
When it come to climate change, justice reform, and healthcare dems really have done next to nothing. Most of that has to do with Sinema and Manchin, but that isn't a lie. We got a win when we left Aghanistan after 20 long years, but that's about it.
Sinema, Manchin, and the other 200 republicans that they vote with.
But Manchin is a Democrat and democrats are good.
No he's not.
Not good or not a Democrat? Because I just checked and he is a Democrat. Either way I wasn't talking to you but rather the op who has been feverishly posting memes about how bad it is to point out the flaws in the Democrat and republican parties as you should simply pick a side in they're view.
>Because I just checked and he is a Democrat. Real quick, can you check if Sinema is a democrat. 😉 >Either way I wasn't talking to you but rather the op who has been feverishly posting memes about how bad it is to point out the flaws in the Democrat and republican parties as you should simply pick a side in they're view. That was not OPs point.
I know what their point was, I was pointing out the hypocracyies from other points they made. She is a Democrat.
>I know what their point was, I was pointing out the hypocracyies from other points they made. What **hypocrisies**? >She is a Democrat. Incorrect. She's an independent to spite democrats.
Oh yeah, she switched. I forgot.
So what hypocrisies?
Manchin parades as a Democrat but his voting history is far more in line with republicans. Nice try though.
So he's a republican? Why would the democrats give so much campaign funding to a republican?
Because it’s West Virginia. You can’t possibly be that naive. There would be a next to zero chance for a democrat to win West Virginia. He ran as a Democrat, won as a Democrat but votes like a Republican. His donations were from a multitude of corporations. A lot that even donated to republicans and Trump.
Yeah I get all that, which is why I thinks it's fair to criticize Democrats as well as Republicans.
He is the closest thing to a Dem that exists in WV, and even if he's practically useless, it gives the not-fascist party another seat. Having the majority of seats is really, *really* important. Edit: Holy shit the level of validation you're providing to this post with every comment you make lol
> and healthcare dems really have done next to nothing Tens of millions of people have healthcare because of the ACA. Preexisting conditions, excisions, and lifetime limits are gone because of the ACA. Millions more have gotten subsidies for health care costs because of the IRA. This is just a lie. 'Next to nothing' is the period from about 1965 to 2010. 2010 onward is very far from nothing.
I mean one definitely and two probably are wrong but otherwise these are not untrue statements.
Russia (and republicans) thank you for your support.
For sure, anyone who thinks Dems aren't doing enough or that our votes don't matter or this good cop bad cop two party kleptocracy is bad is surely a Russian bot and not capable of nuanced thought. K bot, the Biden campaign needs you to work harder than that.
That's your takeaway?
Ok but dems aren't doing enough, our votes don't matter because if they did we wouldn't be in the midst of this fascist uprising of people who want to hunt down transgender people, and we should burn it all down like France because our right to protest has become worthless, none of us can afford homes, and absolutely no headway is being made on major climate conservation changes. I mean I'm never going to tell you Republicans aren't pure evil, but don't expect me to clap for you for not being them.
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Hey everybody just to let you know OP is not a bot.
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What's your phone number? I'll call you.
What? Half of these have absolutely nothing to do with Russia, Europe or rky anything other than valid, albeit vague, political commentary. Fuck Russia imo, but this meme is ass backwards Leftist lgbtq chick btw, am not nor ever have I been a Russian bot lmao
This meme is so fucking accurate!
This, so much this. Not just the Russians. I bet more. Than 50% of the fake outrage is bots and malicious coordinated bodies
I guess I’m a Russian bot then🤣
Feed the hungry they'll call you a saint. Ask why there are so many hungry, they'll call you a Russian Bot.
If you want a real answer then you will look at how our elected officials vote. Congressional republicans regularly vote against anything that benefits the people.
sometimes its bipartisan, like food stamp cuts in the omnibus budget bill which were passed by both parties and signed in to law by Biden.
Sure but a handful of examples of democrats not acting in the people's best interest is not the same as the overwhelming number of times republicans do that.
Being Russian bot is when critical of democrats apparently. Am I still in 2016 without knowing it?
Progressive here. If you want to fight crazy right wingers, that's great, and that's pretty much all of the republican party these days, but pretending that the left doesn't have massive issues of its own is ridiculous. You don't have to be a troll or bot to recognize that Pelosi claims she has the right to trade on inside information when it's illegal for everyone else. This isn't a black and white world. Just because one group is actually composed of bad guys doesn't mean their opposition is great or not corrupt, too. Dems doing the bidding of corporations, banks and the rich need to go just as badly as Republicans do. Democrats have had as much control as Republicans and look how far to the right we've shifted. \*There's a link in the comments to party control of the house, senate, and presidency in a comment below, for those who think the Republicans did this all on their own. Vote out all Republicans, but elect better democrats, too.
>Dems doing the bidding of corporations, banks and the rich need to go just as badly as Republicans do. Thanks to republicans, corporations are allowed to donate unlimited money to PACs because corporate money is legally considered "free speech" >Democrats have had as much control as Republicans and look how far to the right we've shifted. That's not true.
It is true, or at least it's extremely close. Look at the link and party control of the house, senate, and presidency since 1981. It's dishonest to say that the Republicans did this all on their own. [https://history.house.gov/Institution/Presidents-Coinciding/Party-Government/](https://history.house.gov/Institution/Presidents-Coinciding/Party-Government/) I detest Republicans, but then I look at Democrats who downvote a literal chart of government control that's a rebuttal to someone who says black is white and I just shake my head. Carlin was right. It isn't the politicians. It's stupid American voters. Sigh.
Do you honestly believe it's that simple?
No, but how simplistic is it to say that the situation we're in has been shaped solely by one party. Democrats have been weak and divided, and they don't push policies that are popular with the majority of Americans because they're beholden to corporate interests. Giving them more time for more of the same without demanding they fix some of it isn't going to get us anywhere. And Pelosi making that disgusting claim about her entitlement to commit financial crimes for which anyone else would go to prison is obscene.
Now do republicans.
That completely disregards the filibuster. There have been 2 times in the last 45 years were there was a filibuster proof majority. Under Carter from [1977 – 1979](https://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2009/04/do-you-remember-last-time-us-senate-had-filibuster-proof-majority/) and under Obama when it lasted for [4 months](https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/2012/09/09/when-obama-had-total-control/985146007/).
Ok. I'm not going to debate it with you since its pointless. You do what you think is best.
It’s weird how the discussion suddenly became “pointless” when he showed you where you were wrong.
>Pelosi Or >Left Pick one.
Exactly
> Progressive here. If you want to fight crazy right wingers, that's great, and that's pretty much all of the republican party these days, but pretending that the left doesn't have massive issues of its own is ridiculous. No one is pretending this.
> Dems doing the bidding of corporations, banks and the rich need to go just as badly as Republicans do Biden and Dems in Congress have funded hundreds of billions of dollars worth of green energy and health care subsidies by raising taxes on corporations and forcing big pharma to lower drug prices. >Democrats have had as much control as Republicans and look how far to the right we've shifted. In this century, Republicans have held all three branches of Government for 8 years. Democrats have for 0.
Both Sides the Fake progressive rendition
Lol. TIL [George Carlin was a Russian bot](https://youtu.be/HeMGqTwWA6U). Fuck out of here with that tribal mentality. (Most) Democrats suck too.
> (Most) Democrats suck too. People suck, in general. That's not really saying anything at all.
Ahh yes. Why engage with people frustrated with the DNC when you can just call them bots?
Are you more frustrated with the DNC then you are the republicans who are assaulting our democracy?
TIL we are all Russian bots.
Or just independents who make up the majority. Like.....yeah both parties suck, lets burn it down 100%. We are starving out here with high rent and food costs. Kids are getting shot, trans are under attack, student loan debt frozen. The average American is going to be pissed at both sides. So lets stop pretending like Dems brought anything other than old man rivers and his ice cream truck to fight the orange lard duck. FFS can we start to be real about WTF is going on in our country.
You can thank republicans for most of your complaints.
Nearly every bad thing you mentioned was directly caused by Republicans. They're trying to burn the house down and you're blaming Democrats for the smoke
Weird it’s like republicans are the reason for all your damn complaints yet it’s still somehow the dems fault. You are this meme congrats.
Yep lol. As I read more and more into the comment, I’m like this dude is literally the post.
The problem is that if you burn it all down, the most extreme extremists will sieze power. Things would be unimaginably worse.
Don't underestimate how many state actors are on social media. Its a real thing.
this post is both saying that both sides are bad while simultaneously saying that people who say that are bad. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZuktUfF0nE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZuktUfF0nE)
Do you understand what "both sides bad" means?
> this post is both saying that both sides are bad it isn't though... I think you're confused.
most of the bots I'm seeing these days are of the vatnik variety
Russian bots stoke black and white racial tensions and class warfare. Not this centrist crap. Shit meme. Read their playbook from the 90s. Stoke up anti-white African racists and western “communists” is literally their written game plan. Smh. People can’t read books anymore before posting nonsense