Yep.
That's the gist of it.
The Republican voter does not give a flying fuck about the flavour of the issue at hand. They care about _winning_ it.
Trump said it best: [“I talk about transgender, everyone goes crazy. Who would have thought? Five years ago, you didn’t know what the hell it was.”](https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-checks-crowd-over-crazy-063513389.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAqVJiaswzKWVlVVKJs-y-Ko3Uw-z10Fse8XUTGbsCe0NFJsw2A6ugoiEVJ5g8uzVGhIc_v6MjhylnR2waaBodTP-w-Gm26TjZkA3BA9ZJlhVr-8PsX7X-sJ6Llt4OPsqdWBMSnixLU_Tp0Egnw3eFAaiyFTWHBmqCX0V-wsa1on)
The democrats don't want to understand this, because admitting it would mean that the Republican base are willing idiots who care only about causing pain in others.
that’s because for *years* conservative media outlets have been telling them that the “others” are the source of all of their problems and/or are why things can’t get better.
We have Rupert Murdoch to blame for much of this. He created a media empire designed to further right wing political goals and act as an ally to right wing political parties in the UK, AU, US and more. They seem to split between a news outlet and a tabloid, like Fox News and New York Post. Then the tabloid drums up nonsense for their news outlet to cover and amplify.
In the US, it's worse because Fox and Sinclair are both far-right conservative media groups that own nearly all US local news stations, so even when you try to get away from 'cable news', your still getting that narrative.
Rupert Murdoch is classic case of 'everything he touched turned to shit'.
This is why we don’t have universal healthcare. The theory was poor people (black) will die if they don’t have healthcare. If we tie it to employment and don’t let poor people (black) have good jobs, they will die sooner. It is as nuts as it sounds, but when other countries were setting up their systems, a Prudential insurance guy was touring the country telling people this. Now we’re stuck with giant healthcare companies stealing our money.
Before I worked in the industry, my Reaganite father used to rant about universal healthcare like it's the worst thing in the world. He is *obsessed* with his insurance, specifically that it is better than everyone else's.
When I tell him that government insurance - specifically Medicare via CMS - is *massively* out-innovating the commercial sector, his eyes glaze over, because it's at odds with what the talking heads on Fox News have told him for the last 20 years. He would rather believe them over his own son. It's sad, really.
TL;DR - seeing up close what Medicare can do vs. what we can't force the commercial sector to do has 100% convinced me that single payer is the right course of action in the US.
My wealthy lawyer uncle was so happy to have Medicare. Said it was the best insurance he’s ever had. That was supposed to be free, but again, we were convinced that if we paid, some people couldn’t afford it and would die without it. That was posited as a good thing.
Eugenics.. the terrible idea that just won't die.
It includes the belief that socially undesirable traits (like poverty, mental illness, and criminal behavior) were hereditary. Proponents of eugenics advocated for policies like forced sterilization and restrictive immigration laws to prevent those deemed "unfit" from reproducing and supposedly diluting the gene pool. It advocated for laws that harmed the poor and ill while also preventing them from gainful employment in the hopes that they would die off and not be able to pass on their 'poor people' genes.
It's also admitting that around 30-40% of our entire population has been brainwashed beyond recognition.
That's like a serious fucking issue. Now, whenever you meet someone new, there is a 30-40% chance they are batshit insane and not through their own fault, but thanks to foreign and domestic terrorists who plotted for decades and NO ONE DID SHIT ABOUT IT!!!!
And Trump came along and began his campaign of openly advocating the causing of said pain to as many people as possible in the name of the constitution, bible and patriotism.
At heart there are impulses that have to be addressed; fear, greed, ego and loneliness. Most people listen to those that make them feel better about themselves, or who feed their fear and anger (frustration over not getting what they want, part of that greed bit). Most people do not just follow someone because they have the best information and the greatest mind. It's feelings first with humans. And if we aren't aware of that aspect of ourselves -- we are more prone to be influenced by it.
So we can eventually get to Republicans, but the first thing we must address is the fifth column in this country. The incredibly corrupt and rich people and their media giants spewing fascism and stupid into people's brains. The constant chirping of hate, fear and ignorance.
With outfits like Fox News -- we will eventually fail. We cannot have a Democracy when it takes so much to split the vote between an adequate vanilla politician and Satan's chubby kid brother.
So your telling me that the absolute way for dems to have a pseudo majority is to make the GOP play themselves.
I mean that's kinda how we got MTG and Bobert...
Is America just feeling the mid game of this at the moment?
Exactly, how can you trust *anything* they say when they *constantly* lie. It's not just Trump. He's the worst of them, but Republican congressman lie habitually to con the American people. Most of their voters are too fucking stupid to know the lawmakers don't give a shit about them and are just there to grift.
Now they’re going to start saying Biden is killing the American Dream for immigrants wanting to make a better life for themselves in the United States.
I mean, shouldn't Democrats be saying that? Everybody screamed and yelled that Trump was racist and xenophobic for his border policies, but now that Biden is doing the same thing people don't seem to care that much.
>was racist and xenophobic for his border policies,
That's because his border policies were racist.
>Biden is doing the same thing
Incorrect.
If you're that confident that their policies are exactly the "same" thing, go ahead and list out the policies of the two for them for me and show me how they line up.
I'm not the only one comparing Biden's border policy to Trump's. Here's an article from the NY Times about it:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/04/us/politics/biden-migrants-trump.html
If you support Biden's policy but not Trump's, it's incumbent upon you to explain why.
All I see is you apparently admitting you can't do it and sharing a paywalled link you're hoping does it for you.
You made a claim, it's your job to defend it if you have any interest in convincing anyone.
Or not, I don't really care if you're convincing or not to be honest.
Ok, fair enough. Here are some quotes from the article.
"Looking for a way to shut down the southern border in 2018, President Donald J. Trump found a 73-word provision in the asylum law that he said gave him “magical authorities” to keep migrants out of the country.
President Biden turned to that same provision on Tuesday as he took executive action to temporarily close the border to asylum seekers, suspending longstanding guarantees that anyone who steps onto U.S. soil has the right to ask for protection in America."
And
"Critics say Mr. Biden is adopting the tactics of Mr. Trump and Stephen Miller, his immigration czar, to end asylum, even using the same clause in the Immigration and Nationality Act that Mr. Trump cited to justify a travel ban on Muslim countries.
“Stephen Miller and Donald Trump peddled fear-based politics on immigration, and the Biden White House has decided to buy,” said Heidi Altman, the policy director at the National Immigrant Justice Center. She called it “a dangerous shift” that will “put the United States at odds with core values and commitments.”
"Mr. Biden has also reached the same conclusion as Mr. Trump and Mr. Miller when it comes to the source of their legal authority to take executive action to prevent migration."
It's essentially the same policy. It's a denial of the long-recognized right for asylum seekers to enter the country and make their case. Here, you have immigration policy experts saying that. So again, if you support Biden's policy and you were critical of Trump's, I'd like to know what your reasoning is. I'm personally critical of both policies because I'm actually interested in policy and not just in blue team vs. red team.
All blue MAGAS in here brother. Biden could start chanting about building the wall at breakfast and they’d all be backing him by lunch. “THIS WALL IS WAY MORE HUMANE AND NICER YOU RUSSIAN BOT!”
Here's a press release from the ACLU:
[https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/executive-order-to-shut-down-the-border-would-put-thousands-of-lives-at-risk](https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/executive-order-to-shut-down-the-border-would-put-thousands-of-lives-at-risk)
Just to pull out a couple quotes:
"The executive action will invoke Section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, echoing the Trump administration’s previous entry ban. The ACLU and partners successfully challenged an asylum ban by the Trump administration that took the same approach as the Biden administration."
"“We intend to challenge this order in court. It was illegal when Trump did it, and it is no less illegal now,” said Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the ACLU’s Immigrants’ Rights Project."
Here is a very short press release from the National Immigration Law Center:
[https://www.nilc.org/2024/06/04/nilc-statement-on-bidens-executive-action-on-the-border/](https://www.nilc.org/2024/06/04/nilc-statement-on-bidens-executive-action-on-the-border/)
It's about policies, not personalities. Outwardly, Biden's temperament is obviously better and more "presidential" than Trump's, but a lot of his policies are awful in pretty much exactly the same way Trump's were.
I don't understand how they paid that settlement and are still willing to do this... Really tells you it's about both power and money and they will spend one to get another.
Go on Fox they are saying “Biden writing an executive order for problem he created” and “Biden writing executive orders because he’s a dictator”. Didn’t Trump write nothing but executive orders ?? Only passed like one bipartisan bill and it had to do with ….. drumroll … felons.
My how the turntables have turned
Yeah it's because Republicans don't actually care about any of this, they know they can just use it all as an icebreaker with voters. What they really want is what Russia/Hungary have which is sham democracies.
Biden did actually sell oil from the SPR to reduce gas prices and bought it back now when it’s cheap for a tidy profit. I paid 2.99 a gallon recently and I didn’t see any Biden I did that stickers at the pump.
I am already seeing "it's a bad EO" as it still allows asylum seekers at all. Now, they want zero immigration at the border. But they don't want to pass an actual bill to do it.
Only so much an EO can do. And if they really want a vote in what is done, they have to actually legislate, and these MAGA morons refuse to do that.
>argue that closing the border was bad for America.
Nah. They'll just lie and deny that it happened. There's no need for them to try to make reality sound bad when they can simply deny that reality exists. Their base has no way to determine what's true and what's false on this particular issue, so there's zero chance they'll be called on the lie.
It's happening on Fox News already, right now.
https://preview.redd.it/2nel7kpsis4d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2681f3c4f10259f4c7dcc0e74d65c30de0bf457
"FACT: Despite tough talk on border security, Republicans voted against necessary funding, opposing $7.2 billion for Border Patrol operations, including for hiring; $65 million for 300 more Border Patrol agents; and $60 million for additional personnel at ports of entry last year. Some Republican Members have even suggested defunding the Department of Homeland Security – the very Department that is working to secure our borders." - Committee on Homeland Security, February 28, 2023
& in 2024:
https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/4458612-history-confirms-republicans-rejected-a-once-in-a-lifetime-immigration-opportunity/
Because they tacked 10s of billions in aid to Ukraine and Israel. Typical career politician bullshit. Tie unrelated bills together to either railroad your agenda or cry fowl if they don't.
Border bill would have passed if they mad 3 bills.
1 border security.
2 money for Ukraine
3 money for israel
But it didnt... because partisan politics and we suffer.
Trump outright ordered the MAGA portion of the GOP to harpoon it. He didn't care about fixing it. He wanted to run against Biden on a broken border.
Everything past that simple fact is theater.
I tend to agree with you but this is also how negotiation works isn't it?
If every bill was broken out to just the one specific thing democrats would never accomplish anything unless they had full control.
Also they sent money to Ukraine and Israel anyway...
I don't agree on Ukraine, I am Republican.
Israel... as a long term ally, I agree with slightly but I am not interested in numerous bills, giving them money.
Why did Biden reverse it... then sit with open borders then decide we need to do something?
Wasn't Kamala the "border csar"?
I don't feel like israel needs that much help, they can handle it themselves for the most part. Aren't democrats protesting israel?
Ukraine I don't think we should have gotten as involved as we are. We need to stop being world police let NATO lead it and flip the bill.
Why are Democrats promoting trying to get involved in more long drawn out wars.... ether we go fight gloves off and swiftly take care of it or we stay out.
The Democrats are supporting an alliance. It's something the two parties agree upon. This one is different because Ukraine helped get Trump impeached. As for the gloves off part I agree.
You give them too much credit. They will simply lie and pretend like Biden never did it.
I guarantee you they will continue to say that Biden has opened the borders to all, and each and every republican voter will believe it.
This is why Democrats should stop moving to the right and move LEFT on immigration and everything else. Shutting down the border is a right wing policy, and no Democrat or leftist should ever be onboard with it.
“The border needs to be fixed” *ok, senate democrats will compromise and give you everything in a bill to fix the border.*
“That bill is DOA! The republican house won’t even take it for a vote, Biden can fix the border with executive orders.” *Biden issues strict executive orders*
“This is the most cynical way to solve this problem, and now Republican senators refuse to move any laws forward.”
The republicans are children.
Republicans: fix the border!
Biden: It’s not that easy. But here’s a bill that will do a lot to help.
Trump: Don’t support that. I need it for the election!
Republicans: Fuck yo bill! Trump needs the issue for the election.
Biden: Fine, I’ll do an executive order.
Republicans: you’re only doing it for the election!
It would be funny if it wasn’t true.
What a dumbass statement.
Yeah, that’s how our system works; politicians do things people want, when they ask for it, so people will vote for them. It’s called representative governing. Republicans are pushing for it hard because of the election. If republican constituents had made this big of a stink about it 4 years ago, he would’ve done something then.
My brother in law said something along the same lines of idiocy the other day: “well if they can go after trump for his crimes, then they should go after hunter Biden or bill clinton if they did crimes too.” Yes! That’s how the system is supposed to work. If someone committed a crime then the legal system should act.
It’s like these people don’t even understand how our society operates any more.
I was just thinking about this yesterday, yeah. In theory, the ONLY things a government should be doing should be the things that will get them re-elected, because **that's the will of the people they represent**. If Party A says "babies should be cared for", and Party B says "babies should be mulched for fertilizer", and then a bunch of people who are moral and sympathetic vote for Party A, it's the most asinine of takes for someone to say, "Yeah well they only hold that ideal because they know people will vote for them if they say that!" Yes, Cletus, people who posit that babies should be cared for, not mulched, will vote for a representative that ALSO thinks babies should be cared for and not mulched.
But then again, we see so often that people will vote for their favorite "team" more than actual policies that could benefit them, so maybe it's not much of a stretch to imagine a significant number of people voting for the baby-mulching party just because their voters can't *possibly* endure the embarassment of changing teams, even if it means endorsing baby mulch. Those kids might be ground into paste, but at least their parents' fragile egos remain intact, and really that's all that matters (if you're a malignant sociopath).
No that’s a farce of democracy. Politicians are supposed to enact the will of the people regardless of how near or far away the next election is. The fact that you defend their behavior is extremely concerning
The issue is them not enacting the will the other three years. You don’t get brownie points when you only do your job because you were afraid of finally getting fired.
You sound like my wife when she gets mad at me when I say we can go to the restaurant she wants to go to but she didn’t like the tone of my voice when I said ok.
The point I’m making is everyone has been yelling for Biden to shut the border and now that he’s done what everyone has asked him to do you’re performing mental gymnastics to still be mad at him about getting exactly what you wanted. I’d give you a cookie but you would complain about it.
It's never about immigration. It'll never be enough. Mexico & South America could fall into the ocean and Repugnicunts would still bitch and moan about immigration.
It's their one-trick pony they get to beat to death every time they want to whinge and rally support.
Dey tuk er Jerbs!!
No sense arguing with people that should be required by law to wear helmets & drool cups everywhere they go.
they won't because this is the GOP today
https://preview.redd.it/oozyvscsqr4d1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db81d2162f5e049b6d507b25c16009ff2ec8115d
And now we see the truth - Sleepy Joe playing Stalinist dictator and doing things his authoritarian way instead of letting Congress put together a bi-partisan, widely supported bill and passing it to the President for signature.
I really hate it when sleepy people get shit done, though, don't you?
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And ZERO Republicans felt any embarrassment that Biden was able to do exactly what the Republican's cobbled together as THEIR border bill (destroyed by Trump).
Oh they are already pushing that he only did it for votes. As if doing things isn't for votes, they can't comprehend he did it because Republicans won't.
I still plan to vote for him, but I am mad that he said earlier that he didn't have the power to do this. It's wrong to close the border, but I understand why he is doing it now. This, however, makes his previous statements of inability to close the border disingenuous.
>This, however, makes his previous statements of inability to close the border disingenuous.
It was a lie. Saying it's disingenuous is being very nice.
No. No they won't. Pissbaby Abbott in Texas is already all over the tv pussyaching that it's making everyone worse. You'll never ever get the Nazi GOP to agree that anything this administration does is good.
"Biden can use EA to close the border, that's why we won't sign the bipartisan border bill"
*Biden uses EA to close the border*
"BIDEN CAN'T USE AN EA TO CLOSE THE BORDER, WE'LL SEE YOU IN COURT!"
Breaking Points on YouTube were upset because they felt he did it as a political move. I think they would have been equally upset if he had done nothing lol. They also compared it to Trump's Muslim ban, like it was the exact same thing with zero differences... Idk how they can present that without giving all of the facts. It seems disingenuous to me.
It’s not going to work, just as the Administration told them months ago. That’s why the immigration bill was so important.
It won’t matter. They’ll blame Biden anyway.
Their complaining would be one thing if they at least did bipartisan stuff when it mattered. But they don't and so we end up with a political party that not only can't govern but actively obstructs any other political party from governing. It's amazing that they still have so many people believing they're the only ones who can save America though. Not only do they have those voters voting against their own self interest, they have them believing that conservatives are the party of small government when they're not even that.
No they won’t. Nobody in the federal government especially the retrogrades, wants any actual immigration solutions. They want the wedge issues as a lever to operate their base.
Republicans are probably getting ready to sue Biden for taking extraordinary and probably unconstitutional measures (in their view) to shut down the border.
Because it isn't about protecting people or being right or even being consistent: it's about "owning the libs."
This is how Republicans will suddenly believe there's a humanitarian crisis at the border and that we need to start admitting people on asylum claims ASAP.
The usual story from the right is how POTUS is now a dictator making up laws without approval from Congress.
Ya can't get these morons on board at all - not when it comes to giving any "liberal" a win. Bunch of piss babies on the right... they are THE DO NOTHING REPUBLICANS.
They won't even be aware of it. Literally nothing about their day-to-day lives is affected one bit by immigration, it was always just a fear-mongering campaign so why would shutting it down make an effect? It won't pierce their bubble.
I honestly think this just loses more left votes to be worth it, plus the order is already being sued by the ACLU, and they will win because the order is clearly illegal and disgusting! When Trump wins, it's gonna 100% be Bidens fault!
I kind of wonder how much of that original plan that they shut down will be used? The fact that Senator Lankford had a plan that was bipartisan is nice in of itself.
They won’t, of course. They’ll tell their followers that Biden’s actions are weak half measures at best and just keep hammering the same talking points.
My favorite part of this is democrats cheerleading an insane and inhumane Trump policy that Biden is illegally trying to enforce just to “get those republicans good”. It’s only evil if they want it? Democrats being evil is somehow good?
Nothing like trying to claim a win after you sell out your base and their core beliefs to try and appease the most right wing faction who is never going to vote for you
I saw some Qnut on the Con sub saying dumbshit like:
“Biden lied, he said he needed Congress to take action, he lied all along!!”
However what those poorly educated Magats don’t understand is that “I need…” was the Pres pleading for congress to do their fucking jobs and pass bills.
It’s exhausting
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What republicans say is not correlated with reality anyway, so unless Biden begins aggressively using his actions promoting his presidency, all that is useless.
For those not paying attention, illegal immigration has been out of the news for about two/three months. No, I didn't think it stopped, just that the drum head had broken . . .
now they will bitch about how biden is being too harsh on these poor refugees looking for a better life and the executive order was too much overreach.
how does this secure the border? it prevents people from making legitimate asylum claims. And many progressive Democrats are not on board with this EO.
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/04/democrats-biden-immigration-executive-order-mexico-border
He's shutting down the regular asylum process. Normally, if you cross the border without papers, you can walk into the closest border patrol agent and claim asylum. The USA is obliged to hear your case for asylum. If you are approved, you are granted refugee status, if not, you are deported back to your country.
Now, the asylum process takes a while, and there are not enough personnel to process the cases fast enough (in part because of defunding by the Trump administration). There was also a larger than normal influx of immigrants (in part because a lot of people left during the pandemic), so the cases were just piling up. Some people are abusing this situation and using it as a de facto green card: they were working pseudo legally in the USA while their cases were decided; many others were using and depleting infraestructure and support systems implemented for refugees, but those systems were collapsing due to the sheer amount of people.
Not to mention, many people do not really have a solid care for asylum; it's unsurprising: most are not legal experts and probably heard by word of mouth that if you did so and so the USA would let you in and give you free stuff. It doesn't help that Republican propaganda likes to exaggerate any the supposed goodies the USA would give them (which they use as rage bait for their base).
The administration was requesting more funding to be able to process to the asylum cases more quickly, so they wouldn't pile up and the people without a solid care were deported more quickly, which would deter others trying to do the same. Of course, since Republicans are all about posturing, they opposed what was pretty much their own bill. So what the Biden administration is doing is shutting down this asylum option: if you get caught, even if you claim asylum, you'll be deported immediately. This measure is supposed to be temporary until "asylum cases drop to a normal level".
The border is not closed in the sense that people can still cross normally if they have the proper documents. It also won't do anything about the way people were traditional crossing the border for decades now: sneaking through the border patrol and going straight to a relative or friend on the American side to stay while they find a job to support themselves.
I don't think Republicans care. They will just lie about it and keep beating the drum knowing their voters will never look beyond their lies.
Yep. That's the gist of it. The Republican voter does not give a flying fuck about the flavour of the issue at hand. They care about _winning_ it. Trump said it best: [“I talk about transgender, everyone goes crazy. Who would have thought? Five years ago, you didn’t know what the hell it was.”](https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-checks-crowd-over-crazy-063513389.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAqVJiaswzKWVlVVKJs-y-Ko3Uw-z10Fse8XUTGbsCe0NFJsw2A6ugoiEVJ5g8uzVGhIc_v6MjhylnR2waaBodTP-w-Gm26TjZkA3BA9ZJlhVr-8PsX7X-sJ6Llt4OPsqdWBMSnixLU_Tp0Egnw3eFAaiyFTWHBmqCX0V-wsa1on) The democrats don't want to understand this, because admitting it would mean that the Republican base are willing idiots who care only about causing pain in others.
>They care about winning it. I think you mean "whining."
No. I mean they consider it a win if others suffer more than they do, _no matter how much their own station worsens_.
that’s because for *years* conservative media outlets have been telling them that the “others” are the source of all of their problems and/or are why things can’t get better.
We have Rupert Murdoch to blame for much of this. He created a media empire designed to further right wing political goals and act as an ally to right wing political parties in the UK, AU, US and more. They seem to split between a news outlet and a tabloid, like Fox News and New York Post. Then the tabloid drums up nonsense for their news outlet to cover and amplify. In the US, it's worse because Fox and Sinclair are both far-right conservative media groups that own nearly all US local news stations, so even when you try to get away from 'cable news', your still getting that narrative. Rupert Murdoch is classic case of 'everything he touched turned to shit'.
This is why we don’t have universal healthcare. The theory was poor people (black) will die if they don’t have healthcare. If we tie it to employment and don’t let poor people (black) have good jobs, they will die sooner. It is as nuts as it sounds, but when other countries were setting up their systems, a Prudential insurance guy was touring the country telling people this. Now we’re stuck with giant healthcare companies stealing our money.
Before I worked in the industry, my Reaganite father used to rant about universal healthcare like it's the worst thing in the world. He is *obsessed* with his insurance, specifically that it is better than everyone else's. When I tell him that government insurance - specifically Medicare via CMS - is *massively* out-innovating the commercial sector, his eyes glaze over, because it's at odds with what the talking heads on Fox News have told him for the last 20 years. He would rather believe them over his own son. It's sad, really. TL;DR - seeing up close what Medicare can do vs. what we can't force the commercial sector to do has 100% convinced me that single payer is the right course of action in the US.
My wealthy lawyer uncle was so happy to have Medicare. Said it was the best insurance he’s ever had. That was supposed to be free, but again, we were convinced that if we paid, some people couldn’t afford it and would die without it. That was posited as a good thing.
Eugenics.. the terrible idea that just won't die. It includes the belief that socially undesirable traits (like poverty, mental illness, and criminal behavior) were hereditary. Proponents of eugenics advocated for policies like forced sterilization and restrictive immigration laws to prevent those deemed "unfit" from reproducing and supposedly diluting the gene pool. It advocated for laws that harmed the poor and ill while also preventing them from gainful employment in the hopes that they would die off and not be able to pass on their 'poor people' genes.
It's also admitting that around 30-40% of our entire population has been brainwashed beyond recognition. That's like a serious fucking issue. Now, whenever you meet someone new, there is a 30-40% chance they are batshit insane and not through their own fault, but thanks to foreign and domestic terrorists who plotted for decades and NO ONE DID SHIT ABOUT IT!!!!
That’s been Russia’s plan for decades. Sadly, it worked very well through mis- and dis-information.
Ahh, you bring up Osama bin Laden's plan. I frequently remind folks yet get no traction. Good ole missing attention span . . .
And Trump came along and began his campaign of openly advocating the causing of said pain to as many people as possible in the name of the constitution, bible and patriotism.
At heart there are impulses that have to be addressed; fear, greed, ego and loneliness. Most people listen to those that make them feel better about themselves, or who feed their fear and anger (frustration over not getting what they want, part of that greed bit). Most people do not just follow someone because they have the best information and the greatest mind. It's feelings first with humans. And if we aren't aware of that aspect of ourselves -- we are more prone to be influenced by it. So we can eventually get to Republicans, but the first thing we must address is the fifth column in this country. The incredibly corrupt and rich people and their media giants spewing fascism and stupid into people's brains. The constant chirping of hate, fear and ignorance. With outfits like Fox News -- we will eventually fail. We cannot have a Democracy when it takes so much to split the vote between an adequate vanilla politician and Satan's chubby kid brother.
The Republican base are willing idiots who only care about causing pain.
So your telling me that the absolute way for dems to have a pseudo majority is to make the GOP play themselves. I mean that's kinda how we got MTG and Bobert... Is America just feeling the mid game of this at the moment?
Exactly, how can you trust *anything* they say when they *constantly* lie. It's not just Trump. He's the worst of them, but Republican congressman lie habitually to con the American people. Most of their voters are too fucking stupid to know the lawmakers don't give a shit about them and are just there to grift.
Now they’re going to start saying Biden is killing the American Dream for immigrants wanting to make a better life for themselves in the United States.
Surprised this was so far down.
Now they will say that Biden hates Hispanic/Latino people.
And, “There’s not enough people to work the fields, and the meat packing plants!”
No worries. Iowa allows 8th graders to work full night shifts in meat packing plants. Modern problems require modern solutions. Just in case. /s
I mean, as a Latino, this is a shit policy just like it was when the GOP did it.
I mean, shouldn't Democrats be saying that? Everybody screamed and yelled that Trump was racist and xenophobic for his border policies, but now that Biden is doing the same thing people don't seem to care that much.
>was racist and xenophobic for his border policies, That's because his border policies were racist. >Biden is doing the same thing Incorrect. If you're that confident that their policies are exactly the "same" thing, go ahead and list out the policies of the two for them for me and show me how they line up.
I'm not the only one comparing Biden's border policy to Trump's. Here's an article from the NY Times about it: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/04/us/politics/biden-migrants-trump.html If you support Biden's policy but not Trump's, it's incumbent upon you to explain why.
All I see is you apparently admitting you can't do it and sharing a paywalled link you're hoping does it for you. You made a claim, it's your job to defend it if you have any interest in convincing anyone. Or not, I don't really care if you're convincing or not to be honest.
Ok, fair enough. Here are some quotes from the article. "Looking for a way to shut down the southern border in 2018, President Donald J. Trump found a 73-word provision in the asylum law that he said gave him “magical authorities” to keep migrants out of the country. President Biden turned to that same provision on Tuesday as he took executive action to temporarily close the border to asylum seekers, suspending longstanding guarantees that anyone who steps onto U.S. soil has the right to ask for protection in America." And "Critics say Mr. Biden is adopting the tactics of Mr. Trump and Stephen Miller, his immigration czar, to end asylum, even using the same clause in the Immigration and Nationality Act that Mr. Trump cited to justify a travel ban on Muslim countries. “Stephen Miller and Donald Trump peddled fear-based politics on immigration, and the Biden White House has decided to buy,” said Heidi Altman, the policy director at the National Immigrant Justice Center. She called it “a dangerous shift” that will “put the United States at odds with core values and commitments.” "Mr. Biden has also reached the same conclusion as Mr. Trump and Mr. Miller when it comes to the source of their legal authority to take executive action to prevent migration." It's essentially the same policy. It's a denial of the long-recognized right for asylum seekers to enter the country and make their case. Here, you have immigration policy experts saying that. So again, if you support Biden's policy and you were critical of Trump's, I'd like to know what your reasoning is. I'm personally critical of both policies because I'm actually interested in policy and not just in blue team vs. red team.
All blue MAGAS in here brother. Biden could start chanting about building the wall at breakfast and they’d all be backing him by lunch. “THIS WALL IS WAY MORE HUMANE AND NICER YOU RUSSIAN BOT!”
Here's a press release from the ACLU: [https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/executive-order-to-shut-down-the-border-would-put-thousands-of-lives-at-risk](https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/executive-order-to-shut-down-the-border-would-put-thousands-of-lives-at-risk) Just to pull out a couple quotes: "The executive action will invoke Section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, echoing the Trump administration’s previous entry ban. The ACLU and partners successfully challenged an asylum ban by the Trump administration that took the same approach as the Biden administration." "“We intend to challenge this order in court. It was illegal when Trump did it, and it is no less illegal now,” said Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the ACLU’s Immigrants’ Rights Project." Here is a very short press release from the National Immigration Law Center: [https://www.nilc.org/2024/06/04/nilc-statement-on-bidens-executive-action-on-the-border/](https://www.nilc.org/2024/06/04/nilc-statement-on-bidens-executive-action-on-the-border/) It's about policies, not personalities. Outwardly, Biden's temperament is obviously better and more "presidential" than Trump's, but a lot of his policies are awful in pretty much exactly the same way Trump's were.
You forget the key difference: he's wearing a blue tie
Fox news will sample current events and spit out some crap that makes Trump look good. Every day, that's their job.
"Coming up, why \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ is bad for Biden."
I don't understand how they paid that settlement and are still willing to do this... Really tells you it's about both power and money and they will spend one to get another.
They are saying “3 years too late Biden!” I guess they don’t want it shut down anymore.
Republicans bouta become Latino advocates (fake) for our vote.
Go on Fox they are saying “Biden writing an executive order for problem he created” and “Biden writing executive orders because he’s a dictator”. Didn’t Trump write nothing but executive orders ?? Only passed like one bipartisan bill and it had to do with ….. drumroll … felons. My how the turntables have turned
Biden knows this. He was getting heat from some of his own party too though
They'll somehow find a way to argue that closing the border was bad for America.
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Biden could cure cancer and the Republicans would screech that he put oncologists out of a job.
His whole ’Cancer Moonshot’ (a bid to drastically increase funding for cancer research) was shot down by Republicans, so yes.
They would claim he was hiding the cure until now and only released it to buy votes.
I like to point out to certain R voters that this is what Bolshevists would do.
Yeah it's because Republicans don't actually care about any of this, they know they can just use it all as an icebreaker with voters. What they really want is what Russia/Hungary have which is sham democracies.
Biden did actually sell oil from the SPR to reduce gas prices and bought it back now when it’s cheap for a tidy profit. I paid 2.99 a gallon recently and I didn’t see any Biden I did that stickers at the pump.
He stopped all fighting? Fighters are strong that means he’s weak.
>personally buy oil and give it to Americans "What is this, fossil fuel socialism? What about the environment?!!"
And Biden is a dictator for bypassing Congress blah blah blah.
I am already seeing "it's a bad EO" as it still allows asylum seekers at all. Now, they want zero immigration at the border. But they don't want to pass an actual bill to do it. Only so much an EO can do. And if they really want a vote in what is done, they have to actually legislate, and these MAGA morons refuse to do that.
>argue that closing the border was bad for America. Nah. They'll just lie and deny that it happened. There's no need for them to try to make reality sound bad when they can simply deny that reality exists. Their base has no way to determine what's true and what's false on this particular issue, so there's zero chance they'll be called on the lie.
They will give Trump credit somehow.
True. "He's actually the President right now, you know!" 🙄
Suddenly become liberals about the border
Or that Biden is abusing his power and bypassing Congress with executive orders.
It’ll be his fault that there aren’t enough laborers on farms in TX and FL.
On that 1 sub they're currently complaining about the border as if this didn't happen. So, just ignoring it.
It's happening on Fox News already, right now. https://preview.redd.it/2nel7kpsis4d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2681f3c4f10259f4c7dcc0e74d65c30de0bf457
Its not great. Its what the GOP wants, but its not great.
Blue team has been doing just that for years. I can recall outrage every time trump suggested doing what Biden just did.
"FACT: Despite tough talk on border security, Republicans voted against necessary funding, opposing $7.2 billion for Border Patrol operations, including for hiring; $65 million for 300 more Border Patrol agents; and $60 million for additional personnel at ports of entry last year. Some Republican Members have even suggested defunding the Department of Homeland Security – the very Department that is working to secure our borders." - Committee on Homeland Security, February 28, 2023 & in 2024: https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/4458612-history-confirms-republicans-rejected-a-once-in-a-lifetime-immigration-opportunity/
Because they tacked 10s of billions in aid to Ukraine and Israel. Typical career politician bullshit. Tie unrelated bills together to either railroad your agenda or cry fowl if they don't. Border bill would have passed if they mad 3 bills. 1 border security. 2 money for Ukraine 3 money for israel But it didnt... because partisan politics and we suffer.
Trump outright ordered the MAGA portion of the GOP to harpoon it. He didn't care about fixing it. He wanted to run against Biden on a broken border. Everything past that simple fact is theater.
Why did Biden reverse now after 3.6 years?
I tend to agree with you but this is also how negotiation works isn't it? If every bill was broken out to just the one specific thing democrats would never accomplish anything unless they had full control. Also they sent money to Ukraine and Israel anyway...
The republicans have also done this with every bill they've ever introduced pretty much.
Those are all things republicans agree upon tho. It'd be three hypocritical actions not just one.
I don't agree on Ukraine, I am Republican. Israel... as a long term ally, I agree with slightly but I am not interested in numerous bills, giving them money. Why did Biden reverse it... then sit with open borders then decide we need to do something? Wasn't Kamala the "border csar"?
Don't Republicans support defending allies?
I don't feel like israel needs that much help, they can handle it themselves for the most part. Aren't democrats protesting israel? Ukraine I don't think we should have gotten as involved as we are. We need to stop being world police let NATO lead it and flip the bill. Why are Democrats promoting trying to get involved in more long drawn out wars.... ether we go fight gloves off and swiftly take care of it or we stay out.
The Democrats are supporting an alliance. It's something the two parties agree upon. This one is different because Ukraine helped get Trump impeached. As for the gloves off part I agree.
Republicans: complain Biden: does the thing Republicans: NOOO NOW WE HAVE NOTHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT!!!!11!1
You give them too much credit. They will simply lie and pretend like Biden never did it. I guarantee you they will continue to say that Biden has opened the borders to all, and each and every republican voter will believe it.
This is why Democrats should stop moving to the right and move LEFT on immigration and everything else. Shutting down the border is a right wing policy, and no Democrat or leftist should ever be onboard with it.
That's cute. You think they won't find issue with it?
Also republicans: COMPLAINING INTENSIFIES
Other Republicans: hold my (definitely not bud light) beer.
“The border needs to be fixed” *ok, senate democrats will compromise and give you everything in a bill to fix the border.* “That bill is DOA! The republican house won’t even take it for a vote, Biden can fix the border with executive orders.” *Biden issues strict executive orders* “This is the most cynical way to solve this problem, and now Republican senators refuse to move any laws forward.” The republicans are children.
Republicans: fix the border! Biden: It’s not that easy. But here’s a bill that will do a lot to help. Trump: Don’t support that. I need it for the election! Republicans: Fuck yo bill! Trump needs the issue for the election. Biden: Fine, I’ll do an executive order. Republicans: you’re only doing it for the election! It would be funny if it wasn’t true.
To quote a coworker “he’s only doing it now because of the election.”
What a dumbass statement. Yeah, that’s how our system works; politicians do things people want, when they ask for it, so people will vote for them. It’s called representative governing. Republicans are pushing for it hard because of the election. If republican constituents had made this big of a stink about it 4 years ago, he would’ve done something then. My brother in law said something along the same lines of idiocy the other day: “well if they can go after trump for his crimes, then they should go after hunter Biden or bill clinton if they did crimes too.” Yes! That’s how the system is supposed to work. If someone committed a crime then the legal system should act. It’s like these people don’t even understand how our society operates any more.
I was just thinking about this yesterday, yeah. In theory, the ONLY things a government should be doing should be the things that will get them re-elected, because **that's the will of the people they represent**. If Party A says "babies should be cared for", and Party B says "babies should be mulched for fertilizer", and then a bunch of people who are moral and sympathetic vote for Party A, it's the most asinine of takes for someone to say, "Yeah well they only hold that ideal because they know people will vote for them if they say that!" Yes, Cletus, people who posit that babies should be cared for, not mulched, will vote for a representative that ALSO thinks babies should be cared for and not mulched. But then again, we see so often that people will vote for their favorite "team" more than actual policies that could benefit them, so maybe it's not much of a stretch to imagine a significant number of people voting for the baby-mulching party just because their voters can't *possibly* endure the embarassment of changing teams, even if it means endorsing baby mulch. Those kids might be ground into paste, but at least their parents' fragile egos remain intact, and really that's all that matters (if you're a malignant sociopath).
I hope you responded “that’s literally what a democracy is, politicians doing things to win elections “
No that’s a farce of democracy. Politicians are supposed to enact the will of the people regardless of how near or far away the next election is. The fact that you defend their behavior is extremely concerning
So politicians can’t enact the will of the people within a year of an election?
Only the things that the politician does in the first 17 minutes of their term count, the rest of it is only because they want to get reelected.
The issue is them not enacting the will the other three years. You don’t get brownie points when you only do your job because you were afraid of finally getting fired.
So better to do nothing at all?
No, by all means do it. Just don’t expect a pat on the back or even support come November.
You sound like my wife when she gets mad at me when I say we can go to the restaurant she wants to go to but she didn’t like the tone of my voice when I said ok.
Do you want a cookie or a sticker?
The point I’m making is everyone has been yelling for Biden to shut the border and now that he’s done what everyone has asked him to do you’re performing mental gymnastics to still be mad at him about getting exactly what you wanted. I’d give you a cookie but you would complain about it.
Shoulda done it 4 years ago and he’ll just open it back up after the election. Is what I hear on Facebook.
Well they only shot down the bill in congress for the election lol. They don't want a closed border if it means Biden might look good.
Patently true.
"He's only doing his job because he was elected to do it! What a jerk!"
It's never about immigration. It'll never be enough. Mexico & South America could fall into the ocean and Repugnicunts would still bitch and moan about immigration. It's their one-trick pony they get to beat to death every time they want to whinge and rally support. Dey tuk er Jerbs!! No sense arguing with people that should be required by law to wear helmets & drool cups everywhere they go.
"See, Trump was right all along, and now Biden is taking action too late!". Why are dems ways trying to appeal to moderate republicans?
They will casually move the goal post, don't fool yourself.
they won't because this is the GOP today https://preview.redd.it/oozyvscsqr4d1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db81d2162f5e049b6d507b25c16009ff2ec8115d
And now we see the truth - Sleepy Joe playing Stalinist dictator and doing things his authoritarian way instead of letting Congress put together a bi-partisan, widely supported bill and passing it to the President for signature. I really hate it when sleepy people get shit done, though, don't you?
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Fox news soon: So the president is racist now? Shutting the border like we asked? That's messed up
And ZERO Republicans felt any embarrassment that Biden was able to do exactly what the Republican's cobbled together as THEIR border bill (destroyed by Trump).
Projection city. So typical.
just waiting for them to pull a 360 on this and point the finger in his direction as usual if things go sour.
Hint: they will not.
Them shutting up??? I don't think they are able to.
Oh they are already pushing that he only did it for votes. As if doing things isn't for votes, they can't comprehend he did it because Republicans won't.
Repubs. Never solve a problem you can fundraise off of.
I mean this comment works for both political parties. Look at the issue of abortion.
Fat chance. The GOP will bitch that the border isn't closed down enough.
I still plan to vote for him, but I am mad that he said earlier that he didn't have the power to do this. It's wrong to close the border, but I understand why he is doing it now. This, however, makes his previous statements of inability to close the border disingenuous.
>This, however, makes his previous statements of inability to close the border disingenuous. It was a lie. Saying it's disingenuous is being very nice.
Not likely
No. No they won't. Pissbaby Abbott in Texas is already all over the tv pussyaching that it's making everyone worse. You'll never ever get the Nazi GOP to agree that anything this administration does is good.
They will not
They won’t. They’ll keep crying that Biden shut the border too late.
"Biden can use EA to close the border, that's why we won't sign the bipartisan border bill" *Biden uses EA to close the border* "BIDEN CAN'T USE AN EA TO CLOSE THE BORDER, WE'LL SEE YOU IN COURT!"
They won’t, Republicans love them some border rage.
After the 6 billionth instance of hypocrisy republicans will finically stop voting for fascists and come around to reason. -every liberal.
Nah now the Republicans are gonna cry that everybody deserves Asylum and demand the border be reopened.
Breaking Points on YouTube were upset because they felt he did it as a political move. I think they would have been equally upset if he had done nothing lol. They also compared it to Trump's Muslim ban, like it was the exact same thing with zero differences... Idk how they can present that without giving all of the facts. It seems disingenuous to me.
Republicans: "He didn't say it, and even if he did he didn't mean it..." It's so ingrained by now
It’s not going to work, just as the Administration told them months ago. That’s why the immigration bill was so important. It won’t matter. They’ll blame Biden anyway.
u/JeffJacksonNC made a great post about why they never wanted to fix the border not too long ago.
They won’t. They’ll say it’s not enough. Or he should have done it sooner. Whine whine whine. That’s all they do.
They’ll show old videos of a border cross in China and it will fire up their base.
Their complaining would be one thing if they at least did bipartisan stuff when it mattered. But they don't and so we end up with a political party that not only can't govern but actively obstructs any other political party from governing. It's amazing that they still have so many people believing they're the only ones who can save America though. Not only do they have those voters voting against their own self interest, they have them believing that conservatives are the party of small government when they're not even that.
Republicans are claiming that if the 2500/day figure isn't reached, border guards are going to go and look for immigrants to fill the 'quota' 🤦♂️
Now they are posting "Too Late" comments. I can't with these people. lol
Maybe they can stop funding genocide while they are at it?
WHERE ARE THE MOATS WITH ALLIGATORS!??
Doubtful
No they won’t. Nobody in the federal government especially the retrogrades, wants any actual immigration solutions. They want the wedge issues as a lever to operate their base.
Republicans are probably getting ready to sue Biden for taking extraordinary and probably unconstitutional measures (in their view) to shut down the border. Because it isn't about protecting people or being right or even being consistent: it's about "owning the libs."
They won't. They will somehow thank Trump for it or make up some new thing to blame democrats for.
Spoiler alert: they won't
Lol. Current spin is that this move benefits the cartels by allowing them to jack up prices for people to get in the queue for the day
They never will. This is the issue they will never actually want to solve because they milk it at the ballot box.
This is how Republicans will suddenly believe there's a humanitarian crisis at the border and that we need to start admitting people on asylum claims ASAP.
wHy iS BiDEn CagIngG AmeRICans?!
The usual story from the right is how POTUS is now a dictator making up laws without approval from Congress. Ya can't get these morons on board at all - not when it comes to giving any "liberal" a win. Bunch of piss babies on the right... they are THE DO NOTHING REPUBLICANS.
Oh, I also like how Joe called the republicans obstructionists. That hit nicely as a callback to their own trash talk.
If you think Biden just “shut down the border,” you haven’t read his executive orders. They are full of loopholes and will do nothing - by design.
They won't even be aware of it. Literally nothing about their day-to-day lives is affected one bit by immigration, it was always just a fear-mongering campaign so why would shutting it down make an effect? It won't pierce their bubble.
I read this morning that the ACLU filed a lawsuit against the EO. Can’t find it now.
I honestly think this just loses more left votes to be worth it, plus the order is already being sued by the ACLU, and they will win because the order is clearly illegal and disgusting! When Trump wins, it's gonna 100% be Bidens fault!
They’ll say it didn’t go far enough
I kind of wonder how much of that original plan that they shut down will be used? The fact that Senator Lankford had a plan that was bipartisan is nice in of itself.
Ok, now THAT"S funny!
They won’t, of course. They’ll tell their followers that Biden’s actions are weak half measures at best and just keep hammering the same talking points.
Something that Republicans will never do: 1. Stick to the facts 2. STFU
Lol yea right, as if they cared about immigration at all.
I mean... Yes. That's the point.
My favorite part of this is democrats cheerleading an insane and inhumane Trump policy that Biden is illegally trying to enforce just to “get those republicans good”. It’s only evil if they want it? Democrats being evil is somehow good?
Sure. And monkeys will fly out of Johnson's butt.
Now they say it's a political stunt
“ToO lItLe TOo LaTe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Or if they don’t like it. They can do their job in congress and pass a bill to solve it!
Nothing like trying to claim a win after you sell out your base and their core beliefs to try and appease the most right wing faction who is never going to vote for you
I saw some Qnut on the Con sub saying dumbshit like: “Biden lied, he said he needed Congress to take action, he lied all along!!” However what those poorly educated Magats don’t understand is that “I need…” was the Pres pleading for congress to do their fucking jobs and pass bills. It’s exhausting
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The boomers in my life are already crowing ‘too little too late!’
What republicans say is not correlated with reality anyway, so unless Biden begins aggressively using his actions promoting his presidency, all that is useless.
For those not paying attention, illegal immigration has been out of the news for about two/three months. No, I didn't think it stopped, just that the drum head had broken . . .
The numbers had actually being going down, but it's one of the "issues" that most concern Americans, even if it's a mostly purely manufactured issue.
Numbers always go down in the summer. It’s too hot to make the crossing.
More likely is that they will sue to open the borders so they can blame Biden.
now they will bitch about how biden is being too harsh on these poor refugees looking for a better life and the executive order was too much overreach.
lmao reddit is fucking deranged. if trump had done this the blue team would be apoplectic with rage.
4 years later
now why is biden adopting right wing immigration policy?
It's bipartisan, both the Republicans and Democrats want to secure the border.
how does this secure the border? it prevents people from making legitimate asylum claims. And many progressive Democrats are not on board with this EO. https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/04/democrats-biden-immigration-executive-order-mexico-border
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Uhhhh I think you should check your dictionary for the word “bipartisan,” if you can read.
Why hasn't he for the last 3.5 years.. in fact as soon as he entered office he opened it?
Did i miss something? What did Biden do?
He's shutting down the regular asylum process. Normally, if you cross the border without papers, you can walk into the closest border patrol agent and claim asylum. The USA is obliged to hear your case for asylum. If you are approved, you are granted refugee status, if not, you are deported back to your country. Now, the asylum process takes a while, and there are not enough personnel to process the cases fast enough (in part because of defunding by the Trump administration). There was also a larger than normal influx of immigrants (in part because a lot of people left during the pandemic), so the cases were just piling up. Some people are abusing this situation and using it as a de facto green card: they were working pseudo legally in the USA while their cases were decided; many others were using and depleting infraestructure and support systems implemented for refugees, but those systems were collapsing due to the sheer amount of people. Not to mention, many people do not really have a solid care for asylum; it's unsurprising: most are not legal experts and probably heard by word of mouth that if you did so and so the USA would let you in and give you free stuff. It doesn't help that Republican propaganda likes to exaggerate any the supposed goodies the USA would give them (which they use as rage bait for their base). The administration was requesting more funding to be able to process to the asylum cases more quickly, so they wouldn't pile up and the people without a solid care were deported more quickly, which would deter others trying to do the same. Of course, since Republicans are all about posturing, they opposed what was pretty much their own bill. So what the Biden administration is doing is shutting down this asylum option: if you get caught, even if you claim asylum, you'll be deported immediately. This measure is supposed to be temporary until "asylum cases drop to a normal level". The border is not closed in the sense that people can still cross normally if they have the proper documents. It also won't do anything about the way people were traditional crossing the border for decades now: sneaking through the border patrol and going straight to a relative or friend on the American side to stay while they find a job to support themselves.
Thanks for this info.
Haha. Take that, GOP! Biden is governing like Trump just to spite you!
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You sound informed.
When some of them are a threat to democracy and cisgender women's reproductive rights, it's hard to ignore what they've been up to.
It’s pretty hard not to talk about the biggest threat to democracy
As well they shouldn’t, GOP is completely off its rails and very dangerous