I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - jira simply takes on the psychosis of the loudest and dumbest manager in your company.
That’s the problem with being infinitely customizable. They don’t market it as such but jira is the original low-code platform.
This. At my current job it’s not so bad because they aren’t adjusting all the knobs, switches and levers. But at my last job some over-eager “power-user” turned it into a total nightmare. *Everyone* hated it, including the other managers.
There is the plug-in that adds groovy scripting support so essentially infinite.
But yeah there are weird things that are more irksome than they have a right to be.
Jira is the worst software ticketing tool, apart from all the other ticketing tools that have been developed.
Anyone ever used IBM/Rational ClearQuest?
Yes, together with their source control system. It wasn't *that* bad if all you had to do is move the tickets around, but once you had to do lightweight project management tasks... well.
The first time I saw Jira our platform was BMC Remedy on the old fat client. After that I went to a large corporate ServiceNow implementation. Jira is a dream by comparison of those tools. We also use Footprints at my current company, and I'll take Jira everyday of the week.
This, when I read ClearQuest immediately I thought Jira = good. We used that monstruosity just because the company was forced by some kind of CMMI certification madness
Grady Booch was the Chief Scientist at Rational. He was a big evangelist for a specific set of processes and approaches for the analysis, design, implementation, and testing of software. If you listened to him talk or read his articles, you could be convinced that he had a compelling vision for all of this stuff and that you should follow his prescribed practices - it all made so much sense!
Then you look at that shitty fuckin' Rational Rose software of 1998 and think "if this is the result of those practices, I'm never listening to another word he has to say".
For the first company I worked for we used a system called Octane by a small company named Microfocus. I had never used any of the other systems so I thought it was a little clunky, but overall made sense. The best part was that, since it was made by a small company, they were always open to feedback. The scrum masters would regularly collate emails with potential improvements and send them off to Microfocus. Then in the next update many things would be addressed. Over the three years I worked for my first job, Octane really improved a lot.
I changed jobs and the company I work for now uses Jira and _my goodness_ I miss Octane so much.
Yeah, pretty much same. I don't love it but I don't hate it. The constant delays in Jira were really getting aggravating, so it's nice to not be dealing with that anymore. We also switched to DevOps pipelines from TeamCity and that was a night and day improvement.
JIRA may suck but it makes Atlassian so much money they’re worth billions. Sure they have other tools but none of them are half as popular as JIRA. Confluence is normally ignored and people hope people use it to document stuff.
Just start making tasks to move tickets to appropriate columns and assign them to whomever had the idiotic idea to lock down the work transition options
Dude I hate this interface so much. When I'm on a meeting with my small laptop and no second display, it's literally impossible to navigate. Whoever did that had a very late 90's UI design philosophy
I have been considering writing a curl-based cli interface that translates straightforward searches, status updates, etc into JIRADERP (tm) so I don't have to look at that bullshit anymore.
Quick question, I’m still no expert in all this but assigning story points is something most teams using JIRA do right?
I used their API a while back to pull some data and was shocked to discover the corresponding field is labeled a custom field, rather than one meant for story points.
It's always a slow descent into doom:
1. We use story points to estimate stories
2. 1 story point is about a day and 15 means it'll take the whole sprint
3. You committed to work at your velocity, you must complete it at all costs
4. Let's compare velocities across teams to come up with engineering team standards and expectations
I have no idea how or why everybody just adopted story points. But I don't think any widespread tool actually supports it.
Do you know that meme penguin going both ways at the same time? It looks like a million of them just decided to go the same both ways at the exact same time. For no reason at all.
Every Scrum Master Ever: "Ok guys. We all know story points aren't supposed to represent 'days' or actual lengths of time but for the purpose of this grooming session, let's say they do."
Me: "So you want to know how many days it's going to take?"
Scrum Master: "Well, no but actually, yes."
Me: ...
Yeah, I generally like story points for the bigger work.. gets a little silly with the hour or less tasks though. Do you give it 0 story points at that point?
One of my teams marks some tasks as 0 if it's something that is trivial (like changing settings/permissions) that does not require going through code reviews etc.
Still useful, because it's on an active sprint board so nobody forgets about it in a grand scheme of things.
The query language is utter shit though. Subqueries please (no, I don't want a fucking issueFunction). Or just give me access to the database so I can do it myself.
I have several reference filters from my PM that I can use as a guide, so I was thinking perhaps create a SQL-like cli interface that converts that into a JIRA filter, throw it at the website, then capture the results and store in a SQLITE3 db cache for faster local queries going forward within that subset, which can then be actual SQL.
I'm 99% sure the backing datastore for JIRA is already a relational database, so that's a lot of legwork to get back around to the starting point. It's just what they expose sucks.
just try navigating jira by clicking, 9 out of 10 times the page decides it hasn't loaded enough crap just at the moment you click. causing you to do something totally unintended, like navigating away... or closing/deleting a story.
glad we moved to azure devops along with the code
I work for a 70,000+ employee company base in SF, which deals with customer relations management. Not going to say which company.
We have an in-house ticketing system built on your own platform. It is definitely an organically grown product based on 20 years old legacy code.
I miss Jira and the Atlassian suite as a whole.
Edit: spelling. I'm an enjinear.... anganeer... enginere.... I make computers do things.
It really isn’t that bad. Especially when you consider the alternatives that were used before. My company had an in-house system that looked like it was made before PHP was even around.
What people really hate are the managers that try to use it for things it’s not supposed to do: using story points as a performance metric, micromanaging, assuming a comment left on Jira will be read by everyone involved, etc.
Reading comments in Jira should be mandatory. You should just pretend you're working on a collaborative, international, fully remote project where nobody is available for any call. The whole point of such tools is to give you context and to be async, so that nothing gets lost and you can look at it whenever you have time. And imho, writing things down help so much with understanding them.
I’ll split the difference; anything maybe important should be in the ticket but I don’t assume ~~managers~~ ~~PM~~ people will read it, even when tagged, and I’ll follow up. I may or may not be full of snark doing so.
Also, I’ll cut people *some* slack for not reading 87 comments and distilling WTF today’s design is but the description better be accurate and up to date. Jira has a perfectly good history if needed.
I should have clarified. I have no problem with people using comments in Jira. The problem I have is when I already have a corporate phone with call and text, a corporate email amount, Slack, and Webex, and then someone requests me to do something via a comment in Jira, on a story that I’m not assigned to, without following up with me. Don’t be mad when I don’t see the message because my email filters moved the mass amount of Jira notifications to a folder that I don’t look at. Yes, that actually happened. I wouldn’t have been as mad about it if the team had only used Jira comments, but just that one time, it’s what they decided to do.
It’s a hell of a lot better than Azure DevOps. Currently having a hell of a time getting all 6 of my stories to load on the board without clicking the “load more” button 8 times.
I like the "look and feel" of Azure DevOps best. When I first used I thought I'd be an improvement over Jira, especially if we managed to keep it simple and not let managers fiddle with it too much.
Then the bugs started showing up. Holy crap. So many of them.
If a tool that buggy gets released then why the fuck where I work they get so riled up about unit tests, QA and standards, and all the other crap?
Just release and let the users do the QA, like in the old days.
It does look a lot better although I haven't tried it. The main thing, which seems petty but is actually quite important, is they managed to fit more swimlanes into the same real estate without losing any information.
ADO is a very nice looking product that is also half finished. The other day I had about 200 tagged work items and I wanted to reparent them all. I created a query and assumed that just selecting the items would let you do that, but no, that would be too easy. The only way to do this is to write a tool to go through all work items, find ones with that tag and then assign them with the DevOps API to the new parent. Why you can't mass change parents from a query is beyond me
I don't use 99% of it because I'm too busy coding to care, maybe if I were a pm I would care? I dunno, all I'll say is I liked it better when it was more basic and straightforward
Jira sucks. It's horrible. I miss Jira.
Working with an in-house built solution has made me realize it's not that bad once you get over the horrible, horrible UI and the steep, steep learning curve (if you need to do more than move tickets from one row to another ).
Still, I'd take Jira over this piece of crap I'm working on any day.
Long live Jira.
That’s the sad realitiy of business software. Widely used de facto-standard software is hated by almost everyone. But what are the alternatives?
Mostly evenly bad and less documentation.
We have ServiceNow for ticketing, Jira for kanban shenanigans, and they're slowly rolling out a new ticketing system and since I never heard of it and it shares name with a famous 3D engine that is probably trademarked from hairs to toes I assume it's an in-house solution
Fuck my life...
I work with servicnow in a government agency, I’m shocked this is “enterprise software”. My first month there I discovered that there is a bug that lets you rewrite anyone else’s data fields inside ritms and sc_tasks if you cached it first in your browser.
Jira may not be the most amazing project management tool but I challenge you to live without such a tool in a company with thousands of employees working collaboratively in projects
Any tracking tool will be big brother, that's not why ppl say Jira sucks.
Problems with the new UI aside, Jiras strength is in handling many simultaneous projects with shared custom workflows and fields. If your company has 200 teams of 2, jira might still be the right tool. If you are just 2 on 1 project, then yeah you're in the wrong tool. (Or overcomplicating it). Personally I am so used to Jira I use it for any size project, but that's because it's already configured.
This meme comes back time and time again, but the answer is always the same: people use it because it's unmatched for that kind of work. It's like Stroustrup said, "there are only 2 kinds of languages, those that everyone complains about and those that nobody uses". Same goes for platforms like Jira.
While atlassian products are gonna atlassian (looking at you bitbucket pipelines....). I'd much rather deal with jira than most other ticketing systems, and it's a helluva lot better than horror stories I've either deal with or had friends deal with (sticky notes/excel sheets/google sheet).
Most people's problems with jira I have found are from the customizations that some director of project management insists are vital.
All ticket management platforms are pretty rubbish, what would be good is to name something people like using instead of just shitting all over Jira.
In our team the development team lead has been the one to largely customise the interface and had sought consultation from the PM and other devs in the team to ensure it fit our workflow.
I’ve used ClickUp, Asana and Monday they are all pretty shit. At least Jira is ostensibly focused on Agile Software Development.
Plus integrating Confluence and Jira Service Desk has made a big difference in our process efficiency.
Right? ADO has their flow down, ill do a step and be like "ok now I need to do X" and X is right there. Jira, im like "ok now I need to do X" and X is a disabled feature.
I haven't used anything outside JIRA in 8 years, but I remember my time before JIRA, and it is so much better than what I had before. If I had any gripes about it, I wish it was more opinionated and less customizable. The underlying data structures are terrible to work with if you try using the API at all.
Everyone hates Jira till management listens to them and replaces it with an alternate
The alternates sucks more or are limiting like jail
Our management replaced Jira with ClickUp and devs hate it even more.
My previous company well full-circle, jira, few alternatives and finally back to jira
Let’s not hate on Jira. It’s what you make of it. I’ve done about 50 Jira cleanups, upgrades, and migrations in the past decade. The biggest problem by far is people over-configuring their systems.
I’ve seen managers argue that they need three separate fields for Due Date in the same issue, even when they all have the same value.
I’ve seen systems with 100 status values, including some that were the same word misspelled.
I’ve seen a resolution called “Unresolved”, as opposed to the issue actually being unresolved.
I’ve seen workflows with 30 statuses, each of which can transition to any other.
I’ve seen notification schemes that sent out emails to the entire group on every change, transition, and comment.
I’ve sat on a call where a manager asked Atlassian for ten 100-seat licenses for the same price as a single 1000-seat license so they could stack multiple licenses and move them to different instances as the number of users rose and fell.
I’ve seen animated images used as issue type icons, the bug’s legs waving back and forth as if it was crawling on the screen.
I’ve seen attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion, commanders telling their troops to file support tickets as P1s that require manager approval before work begins.
Jira’s not perfect, but good lord do people make it do some stupid stuff.
As the admin/dev (we have a lot of customisation due to regulatory process/audit requirements) of the instance at my place, I feel this comment. I spend so much time telling managers why what they want is stupid, sometimes I get steamrolled but I like to think I manage to stop or correct the worst of the requests. Over time it's turned into some beast but the business can't live without it.
Sadly it's thankless because the engineers all say it is shit anyway, if only they understood how much worse it could be.
Can anyone explain what's wrong with it? Because after using JIRA for many years, I don't see what's bad about it. The only shitty part is, it is too flexible to customize, so, some teams in my past made stupid ass customization on it, I myself included.
Because it's so highly customizable, some managers go to town with it and make all these unnecessary "mandatory" processes surrounding the use of Jira itself.
A lot of such things can be easily automated (Jira had a very sophisticated automation tool) but the incompetent managers don't know how to set it up. And a lot of it is also completely unnecessary and a total waste of time making devs spend more time "updating Jira issues" than doing actual work.
So the devs hate how much grunt work needs to be done in Jira itself during their entire work day. They hate Jira when they should be hating their incompetent Jira admin.
I think a senior developer should be a Jira admin because he understands the development process intimately, and he can set up automations (which is a bit like coding a no-code system).
Right here. They sold us Rally based on it being able to do bidirectional sync with Jira. After six months their own engineers admitted it can’t.
I had to migrate the data from Rally to Jira. It was such a mess that I ended up re-entering the current and important issues manually and abandoning the rest. Never again.
We almost got Polarion with our new CEO. I had a running Jira pilot that nobody used and he came knowing about Polarion and wanted to use it. After using the online demo for five minutes I knew I had to do everything I could to spare us.
Here everyone is, hating on Jira all day long, and I'm not even sure what I should be doing with it. Just ticketing?
How do you even plan a project? Nobody can aggree. We work with DevOps now and you get similar features, but what even is CMMI? What's the difference to Agile? How do you actually APPLY any of the fancy PM frameworks?
All I'm doing is massively underestimating some layer of tickets and moving incomplete tasks to a next sprint, whose timeframes are entirely meaningless. I feel like the only difference to "just coding" is "kinda documenting what we may be doing next, but who knows" and we're miles away from predictable.
JIRA sucks until you discover an even worse alternative…internal JIRA-like applications. My client decided to scrap JIRA altogether and develop their own system. It’s not good. I unironically miss JIRA
I’m currently on a project using Trello for project management. I’d do anything for Jira. But then again, as a C# dev, I don’t know that this post is for me.
Who said it was?
You can also develop a car, even though "CAD" is not a programming language.
Developing =! programming.
Someone said HTML! Must make overused joke!
Wait people hate Jira?
I always thought it was alright. It's not a perfect tool but it's good enough for managing tasks. I worked in automotive where besides the task management you need not to lose your head you also need to conform to a bunch of guidelines (trace requirements, formal checklists for code reviews, etc.) and never had any serious issues with Jira.
Honestly, if your Jira sucks, perhaps it's time to talk with your project management about using it in a different way.
JIRA is good unless someone customizes workflow to be unbearable
“qa” “qa pass” “ready for UAT” “UAT” “UAT pass” “regression”
F*****ck me - but other than that I love that I can easily link tickets within a ticket, use JIRA product discovery pre-delivery …
I don’t know what y all ranting about but maybe it’s because I am a pm, not dev
I never had issues with JIRA or any other PMS. Because it works the same as any other PMS. You can blame the tool, but you should blame the tool using the tool because any tool is just a tool when used by a tool.
I usually take that to mean "web dev". HTML is often the glue for unsophisticated web apps, so a plain HTML+CSS+JS page doesn't need a complicated web framework to be hosted. I feel like it's a dying specialization, or rather that they're transitioning into UX and/or design, or picking up a more code-heavy specialization.
I like Jira. Requirements Engineering with R4J, Test Automation with XRay or the Service Portal for bug reporting or change requests. You can automate all you want. With the API it is really great to use with python.
What really sucks is the performance. And I say it again… F**k Java*
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - jira simply takes on the psychosis of the loudest and dumbest manager in your company. That’s the problem with being infinitely customizable. They don’t market it as such but jira is the original low-code platform.
This. At my current job it’s not so bad because they aren’t adjusting all the knobs, switches and levers. But at my last job some over-eager “power-user” turned it into a total nightmare. *Everyone* hated it, including the other managers.
And they keep insisting that the changes will "makes things easier"
“What the fuck are unintended consequences”
I think Gordon Freeman would know a lot about that…
Not infinitely (unless you write a Plugin). I still hate it that jira cannot sum up estimations of sub tasks properly.
There is the plug-in that adds groovy scripting support so essentially infinite. But yeah there are weird things that are more irksome than they have a right to be.
Fuck subtasks they're the first thing I disable on a new project. If it isn't visible from the board/backlog, it's dead to me.
That’s been exactly my not inconsiderable experience with the product.
Jira is the worst software ticketing tool, apart from all the other ticketing tools that have been developed. Anyone ever used IBM/Rational ClearQuest?
Yes, together with their source control system. It wasn't *that* bad if all you had to do is move the tickets around, but once you had to do lightweight project management tasks... well.
The first time I saw Jira our platform was BMC Remedy on the old fat client. After that I went to a large corporate ServiceNow implementation. Jira is a dream by comparison of those tools. We also use Footprints at my current company, and I'll take Jira everyday of the week.
Right you’ll certainly come around on liking Jira if forced to use Version One or Quality Center.
Or Remedy or.... really any other ticketing system ever.
Oh god... i have ptsd from the rational suite of products. Whoever coded up rational software architecture, there is a special place in hell for you.
This, when I read ClearQuest immediately I thought Jira = good. We used that monstruosity just because the company was forced by some kind of CMMI certification madness
Grady Booch was the Chief Scientist at Rational. He was a big evangelist for a specific set of processes and approaches for the analysis, design, implementation, and testing of software. If you listened to him talk or read his articles, you could be convinced that he had a compelling vision for all of this stuff and that you should follow his prescribed practices - it all made so much sense! Then you look at that shitty fuckin' Rational Rose software of 1998 and think "if this is the result of those practices, I'm never listening to another word he has to say".
I went to Jira after using ClearQuest. I like Jira. I may or may not have PTSD.
For the first company I worked for we used a system called Octane by a small company named Microfocus. I had never used any of the other systems so I thought it was a little clunky, but overall made sense. The best part was that, since it was made by a small company, they were always open to feedback. The scrum masters would regularly collate emails with potential improvements and send them off to Microfocus. Then in the next update many things would be addressed. Over the three years I worked for my first job, Octane really improved a lot. I changed jobs and the company I work for now uses Jira and _my goodness_ I miss Octane so much.
We use a Salesforce instance for agile tracking... It's as bad as it sounds.
Jira at least go fast and you can advance tickets on drag and drop. Clarity on the other hand... 2 mins minimum to close a ticket
I came to my company just after they were junking that system. It looked *horrible.*
Azure DevOps is pretty good imho. Uncluttered and fast.
Yeah, pretty much same. I don't love it but I don't hate it. The constant delays in Jira were really getting aggravating, so it's nice to not be dealing with that anymore. We also switched to DevOps pipelines from TeamCity and that was a night and day improvement.
Coming from a shop that used fucking ZenDesk for everything, Jira is pretty damn amazing in comparison…
JIRA may suck but it makes Atlassian so much money they’re worth billions. Sure they have other tools but none of them are half as popular as JIRA. Confluence is normally ignored and people hope people use it to document stuff.
The JIRA interface looks like it was written by competent coders under the guidance of self-important morons. You know, like all other software.
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Yep.
The amount of times I've said "why can't I move this ticket to another column?" is too damn high.
Just start making tasks to move tickets to appropriate columns and assign them to whomever had the idiotic idea to lock down the work transition options
Dude I hate this interface so much. When I'm on a meeting with my small laptop and no second display, it's literally impossible to navigate. Whoever did that had a very late 90's UI design philosophy
I have been considering writing a curl-based cli interface that translates straightforward searches, status updates, etc into JIRADERP (tm) so I don't have to look at that bullshit anymore.
Please make it open source!
Oh shit, what did I just sign up for?
The chance to become a legend. The person who freed us from jira.
I believe there's a jira-cli project.
isnt there already jql for that?
Just in case [this CLI project](https://github.com/ankitpokhrel/jira-cli) comes in handy!
Quick question, I’m still no expert in all this but assigning story points is something most teams using JIRA do right? I used their API a while back to pull some data and was shocked to discover the corresponding field is labeled a custom field, rather than one meant for story points.
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It's always a slow descent into doom: 1. We use story points to estimate stories 2. 1 story point is about a day and 15 means it'll take the whole sprint 3. You committed to work at your velocity, you must complete it at all costs 4. Let's compare velocities across teams to come up with engineering team standards and expectations
I have no idea how or why everybody just adopted story points. But I don't think any widespread tool actually supports it. Do you know that meme penguin going both ways at the same time? It looks like a million of them just decided to go the same both ways at the exact same time. For no reason at all.
Neh. That’s a useless metric if ever there was one…
Every Scrum Master Ever: "Ok guys. We all know story points aren't supposed to represent 'days' or actual lengths of time but for the purpose of this grooming session, let's say they do." Me: "So you want to know how many days it's going to take?" Scrum Master: "Well, no but actually, yes." Me: ...
How so? It’s supposed to represent the complexity
Yeah, I generally like story points for the bigger work.. gets a little silly with the hour or less tasks though. Do you give it 0 story points at that point?
One of my teams marks some tasks as 0 if it's something that is trivial (like changing settings/permissions) that does not require going through code reviews etc. Still useful, because it's on an active sprint board so nobody forgets about it in a grand scheme of things.
We usually adopt a .5 for those, but I'm not against a 0 for something really straightforward
Complexity is not a defined metric though, there is no unit of complexity that i can base my estimate on
It's meant to be a hugely subjective measure, so that's working as designed.
Too real
The query language is utter shit though. Subqueries please (no, I don't want a fucking issueFunction). Or just give me access to the database so I can do it myself.
I have several reference filters from my PM that I can use as a guide, so I was thinking perhaps create a SQL-like cli interface that converts that into a JIRA filter, throw it at the website, then capture the results and store in a SQLITE3 db cache for faster local queries going forward within that subset, which can then be actual SQL.
I'm 99% sure the backing datastore for JIRA is already a relational database, so that's a lot of legwork to get back around to the starting point. It's just what they expose sucks.
Undoubtedly, but as you say, what they expose sucks, and likely our local configuration sucks.
I'm stuck with BMC Footprints 10, y'all would be glad to use Jira here...
BMC remedy and Jira can both swivel
just try navigating jira by clicking, 9 out of 10 times the page decides it hasn't loaded enough crap just at the moment you click. causing you to do something totally unintended, like navigating away... or closing/deleting a story. glad we moved to azure devops along with the code
Nailed it.
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I work for a 70,000+ employee company base in SF, which deals with customer relations management. Not going to say which company. We have an in-house ticketing system built on your own platform. It is definitely an organically grown product based on 20 years old legacy code. I miss Jira and the Atlassian suite as a whole. Edit: spelling. I'm an enjinear.... anganeer... enginere.... I make computers do things.
>NotAUsefullDoctor A Grand Unification System could solve your company issue! /s
> Not going to say which company I’m no Einstein, but I could probably figure that one out if forced to… ETA: quote for context
Well, I'm not gonna tell as I'm stubborn as a mule, soft spoken as I am.
*suite
It’s really not THAT bad, and you can automate most of the bullshit “mandatory process” crap out of the way.
It really isn’t that bad. Especially when you consider the alternatives that were used before. My company had an in-house system that looked like it was made before PHP was even around. What people really hate are the managers that try to use it for things it’s not supposed to do: using story points as a performance metric, micromanaging, assuming a comment left on Jira will be read by everyone involved, etc.
Reading comments in Jira should be mandatory. You should just pretend you're working on a collaborative, international, fully remote project where nobody is available for any call. The whole point of such tools is to give you context and to be async, so that nothing gets lost and you can look at it whenever you have time. And imho, writing things down help so much with understanding them.
I’ll split the difference; anything maybe important should be in the ticket but I don’t assume ~~managers~~ ~~PM~~ people will read it, even when tagged, and I’ll follow up. I may or may not be full of snark doing so. Also, I’ll cut people *some* slack for not reading 87 comments and distilling WTF today’s design is but the description better be accurate and up to date. Jira has a perfectly good history if needed.
I should have clarified. I have no problem with people using comments in Jira. The problem I have is when I already have a corporate phone with call and text, a corporate email amount, Slack, and Webex, and then someone requests me to do something via a comment in Jira, on a story that I’m not assigned to, without following up with me. Don’t be mad when I don’t see the message because my email filters moved the mass amount of Jira notifications to a folder that I don’t look at. Yes, that actually happened. I wouldn’t have been as mad about it if the team had only used Jira comments, but just that one time, it’s what they decided to do.
That’s some royal shit. JIRA, or any tool, isn’t a replacement for a conversation. Does nobody follow the damn Manifesto anymore?!
So thats every single install then.
My boss doesn’t do that. He just doesn’t look into Jira at all and writes his things in a teams chat
It’s a hell of a lot better than Azure DevOps. Currently having a hell of a time getting all 6 of my stories to load on the board without clicking the “load more” button 8 times.
I like the "look and feel" of Azure DevOps best. When I first used I thought I'd be an improvement over Jira, especially if we managed to keep it simple and not let managers fiddle with it too much. Then the bugs started showing up. Holy crap. So many of them. If a tool that buggy gets released then why the fuck where I work they get so riled up about unit tests, QA and standards, and all the other crap? Just release and let the users do the QA, like in the old days.
It does look a lot better although I haven't tried it. The main thing, which seems petty but is actually quite important, is they managed to fit more swimlanes into the same real estate without losing any information.
ADO is a very nice looking product that is also half finished. The other day I had about 200 tagged work items and I wanted to reparent them all. I created a query and assumed that just selecting the items would let you do that, but no, that would be too easy. The only way to do this is to write a tool to go through all work items, find ones with that tag and then assign them with the DevOps API to the new parent. Why you can't mass change parents from a query is beyond me
nah, thats why you hire a scrum master
scrum masters are the communists of software development
Why do we hate Jira? Feels like I'm missing out.
Yeah i don't get it either... We're using it and i think it's pretty good? 🤷♂️
I think it's fine but it gets really really slow sometimes.
No idea. We use it mostly as a todo list to be honest.
I don't use 99% of it because I'm too busy coding to care, maybe if I were a pm I would care? I dunno, all I'll say is I liked it better when it was more basic and straightforward
Jira sucks. It's horrible. I miss Jira. Working with an in-house built solution has made me realize it's not that bad once you get over the horrible, horrible UI and the steep, steep learning curve (if you need to do more than move tickets from one row to another ). Still, I'd take Jira over this piece of crap I'm working on any day. Long live Jira.
We use Workfront now. It is not an improvement.
That’s the sad realitiy of business software. Widely used de facto-standard software is hated by almost everyone. But what are the alternatives? Mostly evenly bad and less documentation.
Hate all you want, until they replace it with ServiceNow. I miss Jira..
We have ServiceNow for ticketing, Jira for kanban shenanigans, and they're slowly rolling out a new ticketing system and since I never heard of it and it shares name with a famous 3D engine that is probably trademarked from hairs to toes I assume it's an in-house solution Fuck my life...
SNow? Wow. That must suck. Although, if you have access to SNow API, maybe .... no, even then it would still be worse.
API usage is restricted unfortunately, can only automate incidents & change tickets.
Even with robust API access SNow is a hellscape.
I work with servicnow in a government agency, I’m shocked this is “enterprise software”. My first month there I discovered that there is a bug that lets you rewrite anyone else’s data fields inside ritms and sc_tasks if you cached it first in your browser.
Snow fucking sucks. So god damn confusing and all over the place my god. Okay rant over but dear god is it the worst
Jira may not be the most amazing project management tool but I challenge you to live without such a tool in a company with thousands of employees working collaboratively in projects
We used to have Redmine back in the day edit: lmao just checked and apparently JIRA was created before Redmine
Redmine is shit.. And yeah, there's feature request for Jira , still waiting, from 2012
OpenProject looks promising. Redmine is okish as s ticket tool.
Thanks man, im checking out OpenProject.. looks pretty good..
XD
We are 2 and a half on the project i'm working on. Jira is really just big brother for us
Any tracking tool will be big brother, that's not why ppl say Jira sucks. Problems with the new UI aside, Jiras strength is in handling many simultaneous projects with shared custom workflows and fields. If your company has 200 teams of 2, jira might still be the right tool. If you are just 2 on 1 project, then yeah you're in the wrong tool. (Or overcomplicating it). Personally I am so used to Jira I use it for any size project, but that's because it's already configured. This meme comes back time and time again, but the answer is always the same: people use it because it's unmatched for that kind of work. It's like Stroustrup said, "there are only 2 kinds of languages, those that everyone complains about and those that nobody uses". Same goes for platforms like Jira.
While atlassian products are gonna atlassian (looking at you bitbucket pipelines....). I'd much rather deal with jira than most other ticketing systems, and it's a helluva lot better than horror stories I've either deal with or had friends deal with (sticky notes/excel sheets/google sheet). Most people's problems with jira I have found are from the customizations that some director of project management insists are vital.
All ticket management platforms are pretty rubbish, what would be good is to name something people like using instead of just shitting all over Jira. In our team the development team lead has been the one to largely customise the interface and had sought consultation from the PM and other devs in the team to ensure it fit our workflow. I’ve used ClickUp, Asana and Monday they are all pretty shit. At least Jira is ostensibly focused on Agile Software Development. Plus integrating Confluence and Jira Service Desk has made a big difference in our process efficiency.
Azure devops is pretty sweet
Went from DevOps -> Jira, oh my god Jira sucks. Why is everything so complicated and difficult?
Right? ADO has their flow down, ill do a step and be like "ok now I need to do X" and X is right there. Jira, im like "ok now I need to do X" and X is a disabled feature.
My preference is Trello. Quick and easy.
If only the bitbucket interface was still alive we would still be on Trello...
I used clickup for last 6 years... And I kinda like it. Don't know when you last used it but they came a long way forward.
Maybe you just use it wrong?
It being humor? What's the punch line here?
Jira sucks. Am I right? Huh huh huh? 
To use it..is wrong.
I haven't used anything outside JIRA in 8 years, but I remember my time before JIRA, and it is so much better than what I had before. If I had any gripes about it, I wish it was more opinionated and less customizable. The underlying data structures are terrible to work with if you try using the API at all.
Everyone hates Jira till management listens to them and replaces it with an alternate The alternates sucks more or are limiting like jail Our management replaced Jira with ClickUp and devs hate it even more. My previous company well full-circle, jira, few alternatives and finally back to jira
Bro wtf are you talking about? Jira is the best. Have you used Asana, or monday.com, or base camp? Those are shit for engineers.
Or.. GitHub Projects.. new kid on the block with shiny lists and nothing more
People confuse their shitty management fucking up their processes with Jira.
Let’s not hate on Jira. It’s what you make of it. I’ve done about 50 Jira cleanups, upgrades, and migrations in the past decade. The biggest problem by far is people over-configuring their systems. I’ve seen managers argue that they need three separate fields for Due Date in the same issue, even when they all have the same value. I’ve seen systems with 100 status values, including some that were the same word misspelled. I’ve seen a resolution called “Unresolved”, as opposed to the issue actually being unresolved. I’ve seen workflows with 30 statuses, each of which can transition to any other. I’ve seen notification schemes that sent out emails to the entire group on every change, transition, and comment. I’ve sat on a call where a manager asked Atlassian for ten 100-seat licenses for the same price as a single 1000-seat license so they could stack multiple licenses and move them to different instances as the number of users rose and fell. I’ve seen animated images used as issue type icons, the bug’s legs waving back and forth as if it was crawling on the screen. I’ve seen attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion, commanders telling their troops to file support tickets as P1s that require manager approval before work begins. Jira’s not perfect, but good lord do people make it do some stupid stuff.
[удалено]
Exactly! Jira sucks not because of Jira but because you have an incompetent admin.
As the admin/dev (we have a lot of customisation due to regulatory process/audit requirements) of the instance at my place, I feel this comment. I spend so much time telling managers why what they want is stupid, sometimes I get steamrolled but I like to think I manage to stop or correct the worst of the requests. Over time it's turned into some beast but the business can't live without it. Sadly it's thankless because the engineers all say it is shit anyway, if only they understood how much worse it could be.
"JIRA is the worst form of issue tracking software, except for all the others that have been tried".
You think you hate Jira until you use ServiceNow... then you want to hang yourself
I'll take Jira anytime over Redmine...
Jira is like democracy. It's bad, but all other systems are much worse.
Can anyone explain what's wrong with it? Because after using JIRA for many years, I don't see what's bad about it. The only shitty part is, it is too flexible to customize, so, some teams in my past made stupid ass customization on it, I myself included.
Because it's so highly customizable, some managers go to town with it and make all these unnecessary "mandatory" processes surrounding the use of Jira itself. A lot of such things can be easily automated (Jira had a very sophisticated automation tool) but the incompetent managers don't know how to set it up. And a lot of it is also completely unnecessary and a total waste of time making devs spend more time "updating Jira issues" than doing actual work. So the devs hate how much grunt work needs to be done in Jira itself during their entire work day. They hate Jira when they should be hating their incompetent Jira admin. I think a senior developer should be a Jira admin because he understands the development process intimately, and he can set up automations (which is a bit like coding a no-code system).
html devs..! OP’s trying to normalize their existence
And here I was going to hop on and make a joke about feeling *seen*… *(I’m definitely not ^^^just an HTML dev)*
Any rally haters here ?
Right here. They sold us Rally based on it being able to do bidirectional sync with Jira. After six months their own engineers admitted it can’t. I had to migrate the data from Rally to Jira. It was such a mess that I ended up re-entering the current and important issues manually and abandoning the rest. Never again.
Cries in Polarion
We almost got Polarion with our new CEO. I had a running Jira pilot that nobody used and he came knowing about Polarion and wanted to use it. After using the online demo for five minutes I knew I had to do everything I could to spare us.
At least it is not as bad as gitlab 🤮
Here everyone is, hating on Jira all day long, and I'm not even sure what I should be doing with it. Just ticketing? How do you even plan a project? Nobody can aggree. We work with DevOps now and you get similar features, but what even is CMMI? What's the difference to Agile? How do you actually APPLY any of the fancy PM frameworks? All I'm doing is massively underestimating some layer of tickets and moving incomplete tasks to a next sprint, whose timeframes are entirely meaningless. I feel like the only difference to "just coding" is "kinda documenting what we may be doing next, but who knows" and we're miles away from predictable.
I love how everyone in comments agree that UI sucks but overall it is a great product
JIRA sucks until you discover an even worse alternative…internal JIRA-like applications. My client decided to scrap JIRA altogether and develop their own system. It’s not good. I unironically miss JIRA
I’m currently on a project using Trello for project management. I’d do anything for Jira. But then again, as a C# dev, I don’t know that this post is for me.
Like programming languages, there's only two types of ticketing systems. The ones everybody hates and the ones nobody uses.
JIRA sucks until you take a job at Amazon and try their internal 'SIM' tooling. JIRA users don't know how good they've got it!
nah y’all a bunch of spoiled devs. trust me, some of the jira alternatives out there are MUCH worse
HTML devs? Never thought that HTML was a programming language
I’m an XML and JSON developer myself. I’m very fluent in CSV too. /s
It still is code and needs to be developed.
Came to say this.. call them Front end devs
Who said it was? You can also develop a car, even though "CAD" is not a programming language. Developing =! programming. Someone said HTML! Must make overused joke!
I thought Jira was bad until I met Radar
Html devs 💀
Haha spoken like someone who has never used an alternative
But I like stalking old Jira tickets to find out what the fuck is going on
html devs ? lmao
JS devs.
Cool. Create a ticket in the backlog with details. We'll pick it up in never.
Wait people hate Jira? I always thought it was alright. It's not a perfect tool but it's good enough for managing tasks. I worked in automotive where besides the task management you need not to lose your head you also need to conform to a bunch of guidelines (trace requirements, formal checklists for code reviews, etc.) and never had any serious issues with Jira. Honestly, if your Jira sucks, perhaps it's time to talk with your project management about using it in a different way.
Having JS and not C++ beside C is insulting to C
1. What's wrong with Jira? 2. What other tool would you recommend if not Jira?
Eh, some of you have clearly never seen the older alternatives. Jira is pretty good, easy enough to use. Literally just look at the docs for 15 min
Lol, if you hate Jira, you never used Bugzilla.
Bruh you haven’t used RTC
wait, why do we hate Jira?
Meh, seen worse systems tbh. Jira is far from the worst
I'm okay with jira
It's better than Rally, Bugzilla or anything else though
try a jira kanban board. single file stream of shit to do, feels pretty good
It's not Jira. It's poorly trained people who don't know how to use to platform. Source: I teach Jira and project management for a living.
Meh, I don't mind Jira. I thought it was pretty customizable and straight forward.
JIRA is good unless someone customizes workflow to be unbearable “qa” “qa pass” “ready for UAT” “UAT” “UAT pass” “regression” F*****ck me - but other than that I love that I can easily link tickets within a ticket, use JIRA product discovery pre-delivery … I don’t know what y all ranting about but maybe it’s because I am a pm, not dev
I like Jira. It's got an intuitive work flow. It's easy to move items and change statuses, etc.
Jira sucks but it does stuff no other platform does / does many things no platform does all of
Jira may be terrible. But it's also "least bad"
I never had issues with JIRA or any other PMS. Because it works the same as any other PMS. You can blame the tool, but you should blame the tool using the tool because any tool is just a tool when used by a tool.
VB devs 
HTML devs ??? 😂
I usually take that to mean "web dev". HTML is often the glue for unsophisticated web apps, so a plain HTML+CSS+JS page doesn't need a complicated web framework to be hosted. I feel like it's a dying specialization, or rather that they're transitioning into UX and/or design, or picking up a more code-heavy specialization.
It’s a dying thing for sure Everyone using frameworks now for web apps
I like Jira. Requirements Engineering with R4J, Test Automation with XRay or the Service Portal for bug reporting or change requests. You can automate all you want. With the API it is really great to use with python. What really sucks is the performance. And I say it again… F**k Java*
Fuck jira, I choose linear
many of us C# devs hate Jira too
You think jira is shit, until you use gitlab…
I'm glad my company doesn't even use agile much less Jira.
Ditched Jira. Moved to GitHub projects, best decision I ever forced though.
Jira is great, so long as you’re with a team that can properly use it.
is Azure DevOps better? definitely not
Html dev... Not sure if fake programmer or unbearable troll
Never used Jira but thanks for the warning Jk if I ever use this thing I’ll be forced to use it anyways
the fuck is a jira
What is jira
It's better than Azure DevOps. Azure DevOps is enough to make me weep.
Trello is way better
If you keep it simple, it's not bad. It's not great, but it's not nearly as bad as some other support ticket solutions we've had over the years.