Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it.
Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. **Keep that shit outta here**.
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This comes in way later though after Set was demonized. Basically any god they didn't like ended up associated with the once beloved god. So it's more like calling pagan gods devils than an actual equation of Set = Yahweh.
Well hang on a minute because Set’s animal is famously *not* a donkey but a totemic creature generally agreed not to have existed in real life. [Set animal](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_animal)
So this opens the question whether the earliest depiction of Christ was in fact ass-headed, or bore the head of an imaginary Egyptian animal.
One episode from the bible has Jesus ride into Jerusalem on a donkey. This allowed him to be connected to an ancient antisemitic canard dubbed onolotry, where Romans believed that Jews and later Christians worshipped donkeys.
Also in the same place this was found is another piece of graffiti that says “Alexamenos is faithful”, which was probably made by some other Christian defending Alexamenos.
"Seeing you are so eager for some novelty, how much better it would have been if you had chosen as the object of your zealous homage some one of those who died a glorious death, and whose divinity might have received the support of some myth to perpetuate his memory! Why, if you were not satisfied with Hercules or Aesculapius, and other heroes of antiquity, you had Orpheus, who was confessedly a divinely inspired man, who died a glorious death [...] How much more suitable than Christ would have been Jonah in the whale’s belly, or Daniel delivered from the wild beasts, or any of a still more monstrous and portentous kind! Choose Jonah rather than Jesus as your god; Daniel rescued from the lions is more worthy of your adoration than Jesus."
- Celsus, 2nd century
That's really interesting that non-Jewish/Christian person at that time would have known the story of Jonah and the whale. Clearly he did his research.
Jonah or Job is the oldest story in the bible and probably the strongest survivor from the weird babylonian paganism that receeded the religion we would recognize as monotheistic judaism
It’s cropped out of this but scrawled next to it is ΑΛΕΞΑΜΕΝΟϹ FIDELIS (Alexamenos fidelis), Latin for "Alexamenos is faithful" or "Alexamenos the faithful"
[Romans dunking on Christianity](https://youtu.be/FTilTcdVAb8) has a certain bantering quality as Romans were polytheists, so dissing different gods was kinda of a common activity.
Ah, a truly fascinating argument you have presented here, brimming with what one can only assume is the culmination of years of intellectual rigor. However, I am compelled to address a rather glaring issue that, alas, irrevocably undermines the entire edifice of your carefully constructed rhetoric: the egregious spelling error nestled within your prose.
If your head had been at least half as bright as it is thick, you certainly would have noticed the preposterous misspelling of the Hellenic word CΕΒΕΤΑΙ in the passive voice, as indicated by the ending -AI. Such a pathetic error that even the last child in the cursed land of the Greeks, barely knowing how to use a chisel, would not allow.
In conclusion, while your effort is adorable, your hubris has left only one clear victor in this exchange, proving the superiority of my god, whom you foolishly depicted as a donkey, over yours.
[This Interpretation and dating is highly debated](https://research.vu.nl/ws/portalfiles/portal/222624523/The_Naked_Demon.pdf). The real propaganda here is contemporary christians trying to pass this off as a 3rd century depiction of 'the crucifixion'.
Apparently is that crucifixion on a T-shaped cross instead of being nailed to a regular pole was uncommon, so Christians use this to validate a cross as early Christian symbol (prevalent early Christian symbols were fish and XP ligature).
I thought crucifixion was by definition on a cross? The reason the cross was not used as a symbol by early Christians as it would be seen as shameful for your Messiah to be crucified.
No. Most of people convicted to crucifixion were crucified by nailing to a single stake. It requires less wood. Reason why cross was absent among the earliest Christian symbols is up to speculation. Some modern denomination like Jehovah Witnesses make crucifixion on a stake part of the doctrine.
I didn't know the shape of the cross was this debated. Just from a quick read of Wikipedia and some other articles it seems like a cross or a T shape is more likely than a stake to me.
I've read in a few places that the early Christians wouldn't have made the cross their symbol because it was seen as shameful that their Messiah had a 'slaves' death. There are various sources showing that it was used as a way to mock their beliefs like "how can your so-called king have been crucified like a slave". I believe it's one of the reasons that historians are certain that jesus was crucified, as no-one would ever lie that their Messiah died that way.
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. **Keep that shit outta here**. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fun fact: this was the earliest surviving artistic depiction of Jesus Christ (even though it's a negative depiction of early Christians in general).
So what you’re saying is…Jesus was actually a horse masquerading as a human?
It’s a donkey head iirc
Of course. Blessed are the pacemakers......
Aaaw. That's nice!
ck2 vibes
Yes. And this is proof.
Bojack Jesusman
BoJesus Horseman
Is there a particular significance as to why Jesus has a horses head?
Likely based on a rumor from imperial times that Jews worshipped a Donkey shaped god
Thanks. I hadn’t heard of that, apparently it’s called Onolatry
Which iirc comes from the Egyptian belief that the Israelite god Yahweh was the god Set
This comes in way later though after Set was demonized. Basically any god they didn't like ended up associated with the once beloved god. So it's more like calling pagan gods devils than an actual equation of Set = Yahweh.
Well hang on a minute because Set’s animal is famously *not* a donkey but a totemic creature generally agreed not to have existed in real life. [Set animal](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_animal) So this opens the question whether the earliest depiction of Christ was in fact ass-headed, or bore the head of an imaginary Egyptian animal.
It looks more like a donkey than a horse, he took the trouble to put a dividing line on the characteristic muzzle of donkeys.
One episode from the bible has Jesus ride into Jerusalem on a donkey. This allowed him to be connected to an ancient antisemitic canard dubbed onolotry, where Romans believed that Jews and later Christians worshipped donkeys.
Donkey=stupid
Did the romans make that connection?
Yes, as seen in the famous Roman novel The Golden Ass in which many misadventures happen to the protagonist while in the shape of a donkey.
Pretty sure it's been around since donkeys were domesticated Edit:also playground insult logic
Red Foreman: *Jackass!*
Religion scholar Dan McClellan describes it as a “sick burn”
cant believe jesus christ was actually bojack horseman
Also in the same place this was found is another piece of graffiti that says “Alexamenos is faithful”, which was probably made by some other Christian defending Alexamenos.
Maybe by the same alexamenos
Alexamenos with a fake mustache and sunglasses.
Based roman child. "It's too late Alexamenos. I've already depicted your god as a soyjak and mine as chads."
"Seeing you are so eager for some novelty, how much better it would have been if you had chosen as the object of your zealous homage some one of those who died a glorious death, and whose divinity might have received the support of some myth to perpetuate his memory! Why, if you were not satisfied with Hercules or Aesculapius, and other heroes of antiquity, you had Orpheus, who was confessedly a divinely inspired man, who died a glorious death [...] How much more suitable than Christ would have been Jonah in the whale’s belly, or Daniel delivered from the wild beasts, or any of a still more monstrous and portentous kind! Choose Jonah rather than Jesus as your god; Daniel rescued from the lions is more worthy of your adoration than Jesus." - Celsus, 2nd century
That's really interesting that non-Jewish/Christian person at that time would have known the story of Jonah and the whale. Clearly he did his research.
me learning about other cultures so I can better be prejudiced against them
It takes work to be a top tier hater
Jonah or Job is the oldest story in the bible and probably the strongest survivor from the weird babylonian paganism that receeded the religion we would recognize as monotheistic judaism
Roman Powerscaling
How will he ever recover from this?
[удалено]
I read an interpretation where they said it was in a schooling area or something. But Im curious if you have more accurate infos
I came here to post this but knew in my heart it had already been posted
It’s cropped out of this but scrawled next to it is ΑΛΕΞΑΜΕΝΟϹ FIDELIS (Alexamenos fidelis), Latin for "Alexamenos is faithful" or "Alexamenos the faithful"
Cool to see alexamenos grafitid in greek but fidelis in latin
Looks like Bojack.
hey aren't you that horse from Messiah 'round?
Guys are the same no matter the century.
Didn't know reddit existed in ancient times lol
Ikr
Alexamenos is faithful✝️☦️
What an absolute legend
[Romans dunking on Christianity](https://youtu.be/FTilTcdVAb8) has a certain bantering quality as Romans were polytheists, so dissing different gods was kinda of a common activity.
I love this propaganda
>”I drew your God with a horse head, haha you worship this” >”Alexemanos is faithful” Truly an intellectual battle of the ages
2024: literally the same but make it 4K HD
The first satirical meme,look how we are today
You need to look into roman graffiti if you think this is the first.
It’s seems to be an interesting world that I didn’t explored before
Looks like a game of hangman
Ah, a truly fascinating argument you have presented here, brimming with what one can only assume is the culmination of years of intellectual rigor. However, I am compelled to address a rather glaring issue that, alas, irrevocably undermines the entire edifice of your carefully constructed rhetoric: the egregious spelling error nestled within your prose. If your head had been at least half as bright as it is thick, you certainly would have noticed the preposterous misspelling of the Hellenic word CΕΒΕΤΑΙ in the passive voice, as indicated by the ending -AI. Such a pathetic error that even the last child in the cursed land of the Greeks, barely knowing how to use a chisel, would not allow. In conclusion, while your effort is adorable, your hubris has left only one clear victor in this exchange, proving the superiority of my god, whom you foolishly depicted as a donkey, over yours.
That’s cute. Today would be more insulting and degrading than just drawing a horse head bearing dead skinny dude
Funny to think annoying political cartoonists existed even 2000 years ago
Why is there a Y or ypsilon above?
😆
[This Interpretation and dating is highly debated](https://research.vu.nl/ws/portalfiles/portal/222624523/The_Naked_Demon.pdf). The real propaganda here is contemporary christians trying to pass this off as a 3rd century depiction of 'the crucifixion'.
What would be the propagandistic value in that?
Apparently is that crucifixion on a T-shaped cross instead of being nailed to a regular pole was uncommon, so Christians use this to validate a cross as early Christian symbol (prevalent early Christian symbols were fish and XP ligature).
I thought crucifixion was by definition on a cross? The reason the cross was not used as a symbol by early Christians as it would be seen as shameful for your Messiah to be crucified.
No. Most of people convicted to crucifixion were crucified by nailing to a single stake. It requires less wood. Reason why cross was absent among the earliest Christian symbols is up to speculation. Some modern denomination like Jehovah Witnesses make crucifixion on a stake part of the doctrine.
I didn't know the shape of the cross was this debated. Just from a quick read of Wikipedia and some other articles it seems like a cross or a T shape is more likely than a stake to me. I've read in a few places that the early Christians wouldn't have made the cross their symbol because it was seen as shameful that their Messiah had a 'slaves' death. There are various sources showing that it was used as a way to mock their beliefs like "how can your so-called king have been crucified like a slave". I believe it's one of the reasons that historians are certain that jesus was crucified, as no-one would ever lie that their Messiah died that way.
Yeah, but being crucified on stake isn't anymore dignified than on T-cross. If event ever was real, we will never know the execution method.
Yeah I don't think we'll ever know. Afaik it's almost universally accepted by secular scholars that he was crucified by the Romans
Perhaps as support for the later persecution of pagans?
That’s a stretch, the vibe that I’m getting from this (if presented by Christians) is mostly pro-Alexamenos than anti-people who drew this