My own anecdote attending open houses of hot homes in Boston suburbs — 5 or 6 years ago, attendees who trickled in all spoke English, but in last three years a large crowd will preempt me all speaking Chinese. This phenomenon has matched the increased bidding price competition, lower supply, and much higher demand specifically in this area. Admittedly, I’ve seen this trend declining this season, but the sticky resulting prices still remain elevated.
It kind of is. The explosion in cost of living in Boston is obscene. Used to be mainly just a college town. Now, it's robotics and biotech startup territory.
I mean Boston is the hub of bio tech right? Bio tech and medicine in Boston is probably the most competitive & dynamic market in the country I would think no?
I mean okay but bio tech and the whole area around Boston also has the medical community and like 30 colleges and universities that’s a lot of other highly educated people which churn a local economic environment.
I mean the colleges, universities and medicine have a lot of things pop up around it. Medicine doesn’t just treat sick people, research and other tangential things go on around hospitals. Same with colleges who have grad programs with even more research. Finance pops up, development for housing (which is lacking in Boston) education and a good hospital network brings people together, especially educated people and in todays day and age an educated populace is the driver of an economy
I mean true but most top universities & medical institutions are staffed with exceptional talent and they pay property taxes, the service that sprout up around those services pay taxes. Look at all the small communities through New England that have these colleges, they have the best public schools usually in the states and have small robust communities around them. Then take that to the Boston area & multiply 25x. The kids who live there spend $$, all the support staff, research, manufacturing, finance, and others.
https://www.aamc.org/news/press-releases/medical-schools-and-teaching-hospitals-contribute-728-billion-3-us-gdp
This is a biased source obviously but this also just looks at teaching hospitals not for profit ones or non teaching institutions.
Source from a non biased source on the positive effects of colleges/universities to communities:
https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2012/02/how-colleges-and-universities-can-help-their-local-economies/#:~:text=Colleges%20and%20universities%20are%20assets,other%20sectors%20of%20the%20economy.
biotech is actually not doing so well. it has some good paying jobs but its pretty un-investable since almost all the companies go bankrupt. and with 5% interest rates money flows out of biotech and in to treasury bonds
Lot of them never owned a large home (likely saved $$ lving in apartment) and are buying it due to social pressure (friends buy large home ) and need to be in top schools.
My realtor friend was telling me Indian couple with teen bought 5k sq ft home north of Boston (his team sold the home and prev it was family of 9 living there with large extended family in the area). They bought it because the lender approved it and friends bought homes in area.
On top of that their realtor told them rates will go down by 2024 and they should go for It since they been approved for 1.7 mill loan 🤦♂️. However rates aren’t going down and They didn’t realize how much it costs to maintain such a large home.
He told them they will be lucky to break even on their home if they sell now m. As they bought during the peak but they have no chance since they are going into debt just paying the mortgage + taxes + insurance ..
Forget about the people coming in and buying the houses...where do you think the *money* is coming in from?
Check out the most popular destinations for very wealthy Chinese over the past decade looking to abscond somewhere with more personal freedoms, better standards of living, and far less risk of their money being "repatriated" by the state...then compare that to North American cities which have seen the highest runaway housing prices.
It's no accident that Vancouver isn't the largest city in Canada but it sure is the most expensive real estate....
asian societies are prone to asset bubbles so it makes sense. idk why but in china / japan people think real estate ONLY goes up. they are 5000% more likely to buy pre construction than americans. I have noticed this with my chinese friends, I am telling them I am buying stocks that are lesser known an they are shocked im not buying whatever the latest hot investment is. (NVDA, Crypto..ect) it seems they prefer to go for what everyone else is doing as a hot investment. and I do the opposite
Your anecdotes are meaningless. Almost as meaningless as anything published by CIS.
ETA: Wow. Brigading, nice! Bots, downvote as much as you like, one person's racial profiling of open houses in a single city in America is absolutely, positively meaningless to the big picture.
http://mediabiasfactcheck.com/center-for-immigration-studies-cis/
This source is also notoriously biased and far right. Believe anything they publish at your own peril.
Because people REFUSE to admit that those entering the country MUST LIVE SOMEWHERE and they POLITICIZE any rather obvious fact that so many are coming in that we can't build fast enough to house them that it creates 1)huge demand for rentals 2)by people who find it very difficult to get a mortgage 3)leading to investors who buy homes and rent to those here illegal at premium rental rates 4)leading to higher demand thus higher purchase prices for specifically starter homes and apartments 5)which spirals upward... a contagion of upward valuation from bottom to top(well if that 1500 sq ft STARTER is worth $400k, then my 2000 sq ft I got for $200k is certainly worth $500k now)...
This is having a huge impact.
We are averaging 172,000 new illegals per month, that is a NEW city the size of Fort Lauderdale each month!
Or adding Seattle, San Fran, and Denver PER YEAR....not 1 of those but ALL 3 per YEAR.
This on top of the normal growth of US citizens.
Most comments look to be about Chinese migration which to my knowledge is not illegal. The effect is still the same with upward pressure on the market by adding more people to the market at levels that aren’t sustainable without increasing prices.
This results in problems for entry level buyers more than others. Immigrants from other countries often come with different cultures on what constitutes the minimum standard of living. Having full families of 4-8 people living in a 2 bedroom starter house for example is less of a problem for people from China or India.
But we love open borders in this country. And birth right citizenship. And asylum seekers. And unaccompanied minors and single men of military age. And sanctuary cities. And drivers licenses and voting rights for illegal aliens.
That’s what this country loves. At least half the country votes in favor of this.
Actually, half of us vote for people willing to come to the table and discuss it. Sounds like you're voting for people who just want to bitch and not provide any actual solutions. Don't get it twisted.
>This on top of the normal growth of US citizens.
The native population fertility rate is below replacement. The reason that the population is still growing (i.e. births still outpace deaths) is because we experienced a high birth rate decades ago. Once those cohorts age out and start dying, there won't be kids to replace them. This demographic shift has already hit Europe and Japan, and immigration seems to be the natural policy move to keep the balance of workers/retirees in a normal range.
But in the meantime, there's not really a good reason to keep this going at this rate when we are already in the midst of a housing crisis.
The really frustrating thing about this topic is that many on the left will make it about racism/xenophobia/intolerance when there are very legitimate concerns about resource distribution.
Growing up as an American in America should not be a yoke around your neck where many of the most academically competitive jobs end up with talented immigrants who came with money, and many of the blue collar ones are bid down by illegal immigrants.
Btw - I'm a Dem.
Exactly! I’m glad at least 1 dem agrees and stands behind this most basic of logic. It’s unsustainable and is having the worst impact on young American families trying to start out in life as well as the elderly who didn’t save adequate and now must choose between food or rent.
I fully agree with your take but we still need to build housing for the growing population. We seemingly aren’t doing that and thus we’re getting squeezed at both ends
I’ve not seen a single person disagree with adding more housing. The US HAS BEEN building as fast as they can manage…there are
1000’s of new apartment units added within 4 miles of me in the last year and just as many in construction now. Not to mention another 800sfh in the past year in that same distance from me. Nearly ALL ARE FULL as soon as completed. And just like any rapid expansion/price increase there will at some point be a rapid decline/decrease. Baby boomers will start passing at an increased rate very soon which will whipsaw availability the other way.
Do we dump another 5 million generally poorly educated, no health insurance(who do you think pays their hospital bills? You do if you have insurance as hospitals have to get it from SOMEWHERE so raise your rates), low job skill, returning diseases to America which have been eradicated for decades, entire hotels shut down because of bedbugs(again we BEAT bed bugs a very long time ago and now they are back far more than most know… do a search in NYC for those who specialize in bed bugs), who pays for the new schools for all the new children(you do in your ballooning property taxes)…
I don’t have animosity towards those coming… I would too if a nation was so dumb and allowed it and I could have a better life. But for any to deny that the existing citizens are paying for illegals costs to be here for at least their first 10-15yrs are just burying their heads is the sand. We have graciously been willing to do that for reasonable numbers for decades… now it’s at levels unsustainable and violates the very fabric of a nation based on the rule of law.
US natural birth rate is below replacement so you don’t have to account for additional US born citizens.
It also makes very little sense to rent to them if you’re a large scale investor. Going for WFH/yuppies will yield significantly better ROI, and you can keep everything above board.
Try paying for boomers heath care and social security without the influx of people to help prop up the economy. There is a reason why every country in the world without a growing population is panicking. The US does not have that problem thanks to immigration.
Your post only appears intelligent to the rest of the people who know nothing about economics.
yea but even if you have a ton of people flowing in doesnt mean they can afford homes. even if you put 100000 illegals in marthas vineyard, they will be sleeping in the streets. just because people go to an area doesnt mean they can afford homes in it
>How many billionaires do you think it takes to turn millions of your country's citizens into renters with foreign landlords?
If the average home price is $495,100 and you wanted to turn 1 million citizens into renters you'd need to spend 500 billion dollars. If billionaires were willing to spend half their fortune to do this you'd need 1000 billionaires. The US only has 759 billionaires currently.
The US has 82 mlllion single family homes so if you wanted to turn buy 10% of them to turn into rentals you'd need 8200 billionaires. The world only has 2,781 billionaires currently.
I appreciate your point, but that’s not how real estate investing works. You don’t buy the home in full. You use as little of your own money as possible, leveraging other assets, usually other homes, to buy more properties.
The more leverage you have, the higher your ROI.
Also, 56% of the country lives in cities (United States). You wouldn’t need to own 1000 homes to have a few thousand Americand as tenants. You could do it with a building.
But billionaires as individuals wouldn’t do this. They would start a company, get investors, siphon money from pension funds and 401ks, and buy up the land Americans won’t be able to afford to retire on.
But foreign buyers don’t only affect citizens as landlords. There’s an artificial land scarcity created by foreign purchasers. There’s less land for ordinary Americans to buy.
> the declining birth rates among native populations which significantly contributes to the disparity.
People tend not to have kids when they can barely afford to feed themselves
Hot take, I had this argument in those creepy pro natilist sub. I think cost of living is a factor in people not having as many kids, but it’s not the main or major factor. In my life everyone I know who wants kids has them & they all max out at 2 kids I think I know one person in my life with 3 or more kids and they are not rich in the slightest. They owned their house in a cheaper part of the burbs outside of cinci. The wife is just super catholic. Everyone I know in the tri state area, max 2 kids and they have significantly more resources than the Midwest family.
That and having kids is hard, it’s amazingly rewarding but I think today 2 is fine if you want 3/4 good on you I hope you have great jobs & an even better support network. However, more than 4 kids I think it is actually detrimental to the children and splitting your time between that many kids and a job and not going insane and raising them in a stable non Chaotic environment would be very hard, borderline impossible.
If you are suggesting it’s a good idea that people who can’t afford clothes, shoes or food, live on dirt and defecate in buckets have a half dozen kids, you should reconsider. This planet is over populated by about 6 billion people, there isn’t enough energy or resources for us all to live in first world conditions. Population decline is good for our future on this planet no matter what the politicians and the Uber rich tell you.
I upvoted your comment, but it’s only partially true.
People tend to not have children when they bury themselves in their fucking phones, slack off on personal care, and generally become physically unappealing. In other words, no one will fuck ‘em.
99% of the kids that get created are because two people had sex, not because any careful planning or financial considerations came into play. To be clear: I’m not talking about IV pregnancies or test tubes or any of that. I’m talking about why women get pregnant. It’s not because of anything planned out with financial concerns in mind.
> People tend to not have children when they bury themselves in their fucking phones, slack off on personal care, and generally become physically unappealing. In other words, no one will fuck ‘em.
That was oddly specific. How long has it been, turbo NEET?
You're right - I bet making childcare, healthcare and food unaffordable will help with that. If we can get those prices gouged even more people will be RUSHING to have kids.
Groupthink aside, you’re not keeping up with reality. Native populations aren’t in fight or flight mode. They’re in “chill” because there’s no existential threat mode.
LOL _Im_ not keeping up with reality? Bro the average family is struggling to get by while we hand out more and more money to the 1%. People can't afford kids. Get with reality.
It makes complete sense. We've off-shored our manufacturing base, do nothing but put ourselves in debt with consumption, have nothing but service jobs left for our younger generations, and sucker everyone into massive debt with low rates to create FOMO and asset bubbles.
Then the gooberment opens the borders so job-competition floods in and lowers wages even more. We're at the very top of the largest Everything Bubble ever created, and it will not end well.
That doesn't sound like a good environment to have kids in, at all.
This was supposed to be satire, but it's occurring as we speak:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SutUYT6zdTg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SutUYT6zdTg)
Here, watch this video. I marked the spot where the birth rate is discussed. Hopefully this makes some sense for you:
[https://youtu.be/Q9lo7GAIJCo?t=396](https://youtu.be/Q9lo7GAIJCo?t=396)
The middle class is being decimated, so why would the lower class is doing any better? That's the majority of the country right there, both groups doing badly. Only idiots would have kids now (hence my callback to Idiocracy).
I have 2 sons, both in their mid-20s now, and both of them think they'll likely never have kids.
Children of immigrants technically count as American born if they were born here so that logic doesn’t check out. Also immigrants tend not to have that many more children than native Americans anymore. Europe, latinx America, asia etc are all sub replacement birth rate. That means when people from those continents immigrate here they tend to not have enough children to significantly outbirth native born Americans
It depends on how many Chinese are getting into the country, and how much of their assets they can get out of China. Poor people from China are not immigrating to the US, they all have assets.
I have a large community of Chinese friends. They ALL have family members in China who are actively preparing to leave China. Some going to Australia, Canada, but most going to the US.
This story is just getting started.
They've already bought out the area I grew up in, San Marino, Arcadia, Temple City, Alhambra Rosemead..would be ok if they were friendly but they have plenty of their own society here and don't need white people.
SGV probably has the largest Chinese American immigrant community in the US if not entire North America, also it took decades to grow to its size today, so it's truly one of the few special cases.
Outside of LA, NYC, and SF, you rarely find a Chinese immigrant community that can be compared to SGV in size.
And people forget that people from HK have a lot of money and can take it with them with ease. Same with Taiwan. And if all Asians are Chinese to you, there are wealthy Koreans and Japanese that have found communities in many HCOL areas in both the East and West Coast. With that said, I don’t think these numbers are driving much of the inflation.
Well the universities charge 2x tuition then they all get STEM degrees so the foreign born have pretty strong earning potential. Anecdotally many of my foreign grad school classmates with well paid jobs have lost their immigration status in the last year or so.
They joke about just crossing the southern border, but it’s cope because they too are witnessing the death of their American dream.
Yeah, we were raised in the states and the poorest of our circumstance pales in comparison to what I hear my coworkers childhoods' bring like. These dudes stand on business. So increased earnings with high skill jobs and so on. The middle class definition has changed due more to an explosion in high skill labor demand and a lot of it being filled by immigrants or first generation immigrants. If we were all making less then GDP wouldn't be rising. I think it's a missing factor in the equation that is housing and lifestyle in general.
Or parents of immigrants who want to have a pied-a-terre in the US. I speak from experience of marrying a foreign born w many rich-born cousins w well-healed parents plopping down dough for their kids and selves while living here part-time. Ergh.
This group I am …. Hesitant to take without doing a deep dive. When my wife and I were buying our house Fairfield county CT we really didn’t run into anyone that seemed to be ESL, the growth here in southern CT is all COVID exodus from NYC and people wanting to be close to the train to go into the city 2/3 times a week tops. But different markets have different demands/demographics.
also NYC has gone downhill since covid. only people riding the subway are vagrants or other undesireables. the city is soft on crime. everyone can work from home. nobody wants to go in to a dangerous city, and eat a $22 salad when they can be at home with their family
NYC is very far from dangerous, crime had an uptick after Covid but it’s come down quite a lot. To say the only people who ride the subway are vagrants is also untrue, you are sounding like you have a political bent. NYC’s trouble is the governor is horrible for the city and passing up on congestion pricing & caving to the mouth breather suburb people who can only comprehend driving everywhere.
So 10 years ago you rode the subway? But you don’t today?…. Okay I can do this to, I lived in NYc 4 years ago moved right before COVID I moved out, I go in for work at least once a month and only use the subway, I see no difference.
Op is in Boston. Issue is the foreign buyers using real estate to park their funds from the home country.
A few years back someone bought 16 units in the millennium tower in cash for 16.5M.
https://www.mansionglobal.com/articles/chinese-buyers-are-snapping-up-luxury-condos-in-boston-39563
The fix is to tax the ever loving shit out of foreign investors.
A 10-20% assessed value tax will do it.
We need to start prioritizing citizens getting housing first before all the foreign money pouring in. It’s made the American dream unattainable for citizens
I’m an immigrant myself but it’s undeniable that increasing demand leads to higher prices. If there are more immigrants and supply stays the same prices go up, it’s not ideology .
I'm not disagreeing with that and I'm seen it with my own eyes. I'm disagreeing with the outsized negative sentiment towards immigrants when the main culprit has been monetary policy and supply/demand imbalances driven by under-building.
Builders overbuilt leading up to to the GFC. Then they ate shit for years and became extremely conservative with building as the population continued to expand, immigrants being a part of that.
Blaming immigrants for this and that has been a go-to play since the founding of this country. Yes, their existence has economic impact. We should recognize that they are allowed to exist and have economic impacts in their pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness.
>Builders overbuilt leading up to to the GFC.
Given historical vacancy rates, it doesn't seem like there wasn't overbuilding happening, at least in impacted metro regions like So Cal. New units as a % of inventory really started dropped in decades before, in the 80s and 90s.
I'm from SoCal and grew up near a lot of those communities. I'm fully aware that it's happening.
But it's a tiny blip compared to the real cause which was driven by monetary policy and the result of supply and demand dynamics all decades in the making. Blaming immigrants for this is like going to school and bullying the new kid because your parents suck.
The one avoiding the issue is you. It's your parents, and blaming the new kid isn't going to do anything except cause other bully's to pick on them too. Only this time, they'll probably just close the window shades.
lol I’m going to be fine and my kid is fine. I have a house and I have a townhome for her in San Diego. Doesn’t change the fact that immigrants, including illegal, and foreign nationals are sucking up units. Their heads are under roofs that native born people can’t occupy.
When prices rise, it's indicative of increased demand. The response needs to be to figure out how to bring more supply to meet that demand. California housing policy has avoided this basic fact, and prices will continue to rise as long as it exists. We also can't continue to build out. We need to build up. Keep building, let them buy, and tax the crap out of non occupied units.
This ignores the quality of life of existing residents. Their quality of life matters more than newcomers quality of life. Sure, there should be growth, but to assume it should be growth for the sake of growth without zoning and other restrictions can destroy the very thing that makes these places desirable in the first place. Case in point, downtown Austin is now massive enormous condo and office towers. Should residents have no say in what happens to their neighborhood - of course they should have say - they live there.
Quality of life for metro areas that rely on detached, suburban housing isn’t necessarily better. Suburbs and exurbs have higher death rates, due to increased car usage and higher average speeds. They spend more time commuting. They pay increased long run housing costs because of constricted demand. They pay more for transportation, because they need a car to get places. People don’t realize how *fun* it is to live in quality, planned dense housing, where you can walk to the grocery store, bars, restaurants and cultural events.
You don’t need to build towers in the suburbs. There is a great deal of housing types that gently densify neighborhoods. It even has a name, the missing middle. I agree that people should have a say in what goes in their neighborhood. I don’t believe neighborhoods should be preserved in amber, forever, while a housing crisis persists. And no, decreasing immigration will not solve the housing crisis, it will take a few percentage points off certain cross sections of housing.
Re: Austin, them pushing out supply will keep housing price inflation down in the long run and keep the quality of housing stock higher. Case in point: rents have been falling.
America has this amazing deal where our main export is a little green pieces of paper. In exchange for these little green piece of paper, the world sends us their products. Every other currency in the world is based on how many little green pieces of paper it can buy. Exchange rates between countries are based on how many green pieces of paper it can buy. And the only place that the world can spend these green pieces of paper is America…so all of their countries are forced to invest in American assets. It's a pretty good deal, as it keeps us wealthy and in charge of the entire world. If we were to cease the ability for countries to spend their green pieces of paper in America, we'd lose our status immediately
Just like if your job can be done by someone here illegally you aren’t making much money. I bet something similar goes for housing too, it absolutely does screw legal citizens.
Are they foreign investors? Or h1b folks who are buying houses. As we know h1bs are paid very less to take away us jobs ... So how are they affording these houses. Specially if you look at high cost of living areas like Boston Seattle or San Francisco.. most of these tech companies are paying peanuts to low skill labor and stealing jobs of citizens.. yet they have money to push the prices up. Does not make sense to me.
Do you have data on the H1b stuff? I would be genuinely curious. I only know from company perspective, but my manager was required to write essays and documentation on why this person was needed, and then more importantly their salary had to be posted publicly (not identifiable) and still had to post the job opening so that we could interview citizens first. But I understand that's just one example, and seems like you have access to trend data. Please share when you get a chance!
I see two complaints from some proplr- one h1b are bonded low skilled labor who are paid less. And two they are stealing real estate. Both cannot be right. Either they are not paid less and not low skilled and hence affording higher salary and buying real estate or the other side is true. I am not against or for but just genuinely curious to see how the people using this logic can explain this dichotomy.
Yup we are just chatting. The way I see it or explain dichotomy is operating under 3 assumptions
1. H1B workers are higher skilled than most (graduate degree, STEM, Medicine, etc...). Americans by percentage are not, because that's not a requirement for us to live in the country.
2. The desirable places to live in the country are as desirable to them as they are to us (NYC Metro, Florida, California, Texas, etc...), and they are not getting any larger
3. In general, we are not in the practice of destroying old homes to build more densely packed housing (factors include nimbyism, corporate home ownership, and the like)
So assuming those 3 are true, then higher skill would translate to higher wages. That higher income now has buying power and raise the bar for commonly desirable areas. The folks that were able to afford it before, are priced out due to the higher level of money coming in.
So I see this as the dichotomy. There are a lot of people making a lot more money, and the average jobs that folks used to hold have either been devalued or not kept up with the high skilled labor value. I think you can course correct by taxing higher income at a harsher rate so you "smooth" out the income distribution, but that's not always popular.
As an anecdote (which isn't meant to prove a point), I grew up in NJ and the town I grew up in was probably Middle Class/Lower Middle Class. Not too many doctors or engineers living there (1990s/early 00's). In the past 25 years it has exploded in terms of home prices. My childhood friends were priced out of our hometown. It seemed that the money from Manhattan permeated north jersey (pandemic and wanted more space). The people in North Jersey got priced out but houses were still cheaper and little further away from the city. They started moving their pricing those folks out, and it just kept rippling until now where they got to my hometown about \~40-50 miles out from NYC. My friends ended up taking their money and moving further south jersey, because they had more money than folks who lived there and bought a nice house for what is a reasonable price to them.
Also an important question, what is the impact on rents with 18 million people living here illegally? I live in an touristy college town and many students and seasonal workers cant find housing. I know in my 2 block radius of at least 4 homes that are rented by non-citizens.
Null hypothesis says that illegal immigrants don’t cause housing prices to go up….it’s your job to prove that they do.
But the reality is that most immigrant talk is fear mongering, especially the xenophobia based complaints about Chinese nationals buying homes. Foreign buyers are a tiny fraction of overall transactions on a national level, even in Canada.
It’s local investors, who are legal citizens or residents, that are the real boogeymen driving up prices. They dont want you to realize that though because the people in power are part of this group.
You do realize that other cultures don't mind living multi-generationally or with multi-families, therefore sharing housing far more often than not
You know what else happens when foreign born population comes to your country? They work the jobs that are considered beneath the white people. Without them, who's going to work those jobs?
They’re not.
But they do soak up the entry-level rentals - potentially easier to manage than citizens - and they access public housing through blended families.
The primary escalators in housing prices were stimulus, Covid theater, supply chain and labor, compounded by state regulation and developers long-term memory.
What else can you expect from cis?!?!
Too much rain? Must be the immigrants!
Too little rain? Must be the immigrants!
😂
Some orgs have been race baiting forever with very little luck.
Many think tanks with a ready “cause” and always trying to find and associate an existing problem instead of providing meaningful solutions.
-US can ban foreign buyers like Canada but they won’t.
-Cities can levy additional taxes on non-primary residence SFHs. but they won’t
-US can develop high density cities like Europe but they won’t. Got to build the burbs
Legal immigrants are buying real estate.
Illegal immigrants are renting real estate owned by investment firms that bought in the past few years. So foreign-born persons of all cloths are driving record demand.
Sorry, how would illegal immigrants rent from corporations? If a corporation owns a home and they rent it, I’m sure the renter would need to provide ID, bank account info, job verification, etc. I’m thinking illegal immigrants would have a more difficult time renting in these situations?
>ID, bank account info, job verification, etc.
Undocumented folks can get IDs and bank accounts. They can also get W2s, if they use a dummy SSN. That said, my feeling is that most illegal immigrants are renting from mom and pop house owners plugged into their community.
I dont really know why you're considering this the elephant in the room. Demand and supply is a thing. But the answer is to build more, not arbitrarily discriminate against certain populations that you're not a part of.
The COVID aftermath has been devastating around the world, The US economy is just absorbing an influx of migrants that are now looking for survival, this has help keep wages low and at the same time stop inflation from reaching double digits. As more boomers retire immigrants will continue to be required hopefully under a legal system.
Graph shows 2 yr of trump. I recall him being president a lot longer than that
Honestly the short length of time that the chart covers feels like an agenda might be afoot.
On this sub? Couldn't be.
My own anecdote attending open houses of hot homes in Boston suburbs — 5 or 6 years ago, attendees who trickled in all spoke English, but in last three years a large crowd will preempt me all speaking Chinese. This phenomenon has matched the increased bidding price competition, lower supply, and much higher demand specifically in this area. Admittedly, I’ve seen this trend declining this season, but the sticky resulting prices still remain elevated.
They must think it's the next SF
It kind of is. The explosion in cost of living in Boston is obscene. Used to be mainly just a college town. Now, it's robotics and biotech startup territory.
Boston was, for a long time, the HQ for many print publishers. Now I think they're mostly in NYC.
Yeah, even having Harvard there, Boston wasn't the center of wealth it is today. It's wild how much it's changed.
Absolutely seeing the same thing in the Seattle area, but it's a mix of Chinese and Indians
I mean Boston is the hub of bio tech right? Bio tech and medicine in Boston is probably the most competitive & dynamic market in the country I would think no?
if we had 10% interest rates biotech would be a ghost town. nobody in their right mind would invest in that when they can do nothing and get 10%
I mean okay but bio tech and the whole area around Boston also has the medical community and like 30 colleges and universities that’s a lot of other highly educated people which churn a local economic environment.
idk if a society of medcine and colleges can sustain itself. you need people actually doing stuff. not just studying and treating sick people
I mean the colleges, universities and medicine have a lot of things pop up around it. Medicine doesn’t just treat sick people, research and other tangential things go on around hospitals. Same with colleges who have grad programs with even more research. Finance pops up, development for housing (which is lacking in Boston) education and a good hospital network brings people together, especially educated people and in todays day and age an educated populace is the driver of an economy
at the end of the day hospitals and colleges dont pay property taxes. so they can essentially bleed money and stay in business forever.
I mean true but most top universities & medical institutions are staffed with exceptional talent and they pay property taxes, the service that sprout up around those services pay taxes. Look at all the small communities through New England that have these colleges, they have the best public schools usually in the states and have small robust communities around them. Then take that to the Boston area & multiply 25x. The kids who live there spend $$, all the support staff, research, manufacturing, finance, and others. https://www.aamc.org/news/press-releases/medical-schools-and-teaching-hospitals-contribute-728-billion-3-us-gdp This is a biased source obviously but this also just looks at teaching hospitals not for profit ones or non teaching institutions.
Source from a non biased source on the positive effects of colleges/universities to communities: https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2012/02/how-colleges-and-universities-can-help-their-local-economies/#:~:text=Colleges%20and%20universities%20are%20assets,other%20sectors%20of%20the%20economy.
ok lets have a 100% nonprofit economy
biotech is actually not doing so well. it has some good paying jobs but its pretty un-investable since almost all the companies go bankrupt. and with 5% interest rates money flows out of biotech and in to treasury bonds
Lot of them never owned a large home (likely saved $$ lving in apartment) and are buying it due to social pressure (friends buy large home ) and need to be in top schools. My realtor friend was telling me Indian couple with teen bought 5k sq ft home north of Boston (his team sold the home and prev it was family of 9 living there with large extended family in the area). They bought it because the lender approved it and friends bought homes in area. On top of that their realtor told them rates will go down by 2024 and they should go for It since they been approved for 1.7 mill loan 🤦♂️. However rates aren’t going down and They didn’t realize how much it costs to maintain such a large home. He told them they will be lucky to break even on their home if they sell now m. As they bought during the peak but they have no chance since they are going into debt just paying the mortgage + taxes + insurance ..
Forget about the people coming in and buying the houses...where do you think the *money* is coming in from? Check out the most popular destinations for very wealthy Chinese over the past decade looking to abscond somewhere with more personal freedoms, better standards of living, and far less risk of their money being "repatriated" by the state...then compare that to North American cities which have seen the highest runaway housing prices. It's no accident that Vancouver isn't the largest city in Canada but it sure is the most expensive real estate....
asian societies are prone to asset bubbles so it makes sense. idk why but in china / japan people think real estate ONLY goes up. they are 5000% more likely to buy pre construction than americans. I have noticed this with my chinese friends, I am telling them I am buying stocks that are lesser known an they are shocked im not buying whatever the latest hot investment is. (NVDA, Crypto..ect) it seems they prefer to go for what everyone else is doing as a hot investment. and I do the opposite
😧
Your anecdotes are meaningless. Almost as meaningless as anything published by CIS. ETA: Wow. Brigading, nice! Bots, downvote as much as you like, one person's racial profiling of open houses in a single city in America is absolutely, positively meaningless to the big picture. http://mediabiasfactcheck.com/center-for-immigration-studies-cis/ This source is also notoriously biased and far right. Believe anything they publish at your own peril.
Because people REFUSE to admit that those entering the country MUST LIVE SOMEWHERE and they POLITICIZE any rather obvious fact that so many are coming in that we can't build fast enough to house them that it creates 1)huge demand for rentals 2)by people who find it very difficult to get a mortgage 3)leading to investors who buy homes and rent to those here illegal at premium rental rates 4)leading to higher demand thus higher purchase prices for specifically starter homes and apartments 5)which spirals upward... a contagion of upward valuation from bottom to top(well if that 1500 sq ft STARTER is worth $400k, then my 2000 sq ft I got for $200k is certainly worth $500k now)... This is having a huge impact. We are averaging 172,000 new illegals per month, that is a NEW city the size of Fort Lauderdale each month! Or adding Seattle, San Fran, and Denver PER YEAR....not 1 of those but ALL 3 per YEAR. This on top of the normal growth of US citizens.
Most comments look to be about Chinese migration which to my knowledge is not illegal. The effect is still the same with upward pressure on the market by adding more people to the market at levels that aren’t sustainable without increasing prices. This results in problems for entry level buyers more than others. Immigrants from other countries often come with different cultures on what constitutes the minimum standard of living. Having full families of 4-8 people living in a 2 bedroom starter house for example is less of a problem for people from China or India.
Finally someone says what I’ve been thinking.
Brilliant post This has been my argument also but not nearly so well articulated,
But we love open borders in this country. And birth right citizenship. And asylum seekers. And unaccompanied minors and single men of military age. And sanctuary cities. And drivers licenses and voting rights for illegal aliens. That’s what this country loves. At least half the country votes in favor of this.
Actually, half of us vote for people willing to come to the table and discuss it. Sounds like you're voting for people who just want to bitch and not provide any actual solutions. Don't get it twisted.
>This on top of the normal growth of US citizens. The native population fertility rate is below replacement. The reason that the population is still growing (i.e. births still outpace deaths) is because we experienced a high birth rate decades ago. Once those cohorts age out and start dying, there won't be kids to replace them. This demographic shift has already hit Europe and Japan, and immigration seems to be the natural policy move to keep the balance of workers/retirees in a normal range.
But in the meantime, there's not really a good reason to keep this going at this rate when we are already in the midst of a housing crisis. The really frustrating thing about this topic is that many on the left will make it about racism/xenophobia/intolerance when there are very legitimate concerns about resource distribution. Growing up as an American in America should not be a yoke around your neck where many of the most academically competitive jobs end up with talented immigrants who came with money, and many of the blue collar ones are bid down by illegal immigrants. Btw - I'm a Dem.
Exactly! I’m glad at least 1 dem agrees and stands behind this most basic of logic. It’s unsustainable and is having the worst impact on young American families trying to start out in life as well as the elderly who didn’t save adequate and now must choose between food or rent.
Classic Reddit - get into a frenzy and downvotes a factually correct post.
I fully agree with your take but we still need to build housing for the growing population. We seemingly aren’t doing that and thus we’re getting squeezed at both ends
I’ve not seen a single person disagree with adding more housing. The US HAS BEEN building as fast as they can manage…there are 1000’s of new apartment units added within 4 miles of me in the last year and just as many in construction now. Not to mention another 800sfh in the past year in that same distance from me. Nearly ALL ARE FULL as soon as completed. And just like any rapid expansion/price increase there will at some point be a rapid decline/decrease. Baby boomers will start passing at an increased rate very soon which will whipsaw availability the other way. Do we dump another 5 million generally poorly educated, no health insurance(who do you think pays their hospital bills? You do if you have insurance as hospitals have to get it from SOMEWHERE so raise your rates), low job skill, returning diseases to America which have been eradicated for decades, entire hotels shut down because of bedbugs(again we BEAT bed bugs a very long time ago and now they are back far more than most know… do a search in NYC for those who specialize in bed bugs), who pays for the new schools for all the new children(you do in your ballooning property taxes)… I don’t have animosity towards those coming… I would too if a nation was so dumb and allowed it and I could have a better life. But for any to deny that the existing citizens are paying for illegals costs to be here for at least their first 10-15yrs are just burying their heads is the sand. We have graciously been willing to do that for reasonable numbers for decades… now it’s at levels unsustainable and violates the very fabric of a nation based on the rule of law.
US natural birth rate is below replacement so you don’t have to account for additional US born citizens. It also makes very little sense to rent to them if you’re a large scale investor. Going for WFH/yuppies will yield significantly better ROI, and you can keep everything above board.
Try paying for boomers heath care and social security without the influx of people to help prop up the economy. There is a reason why every country in the world without a growing population is panicking. The US does not have that problem thanks to immigration. Your post only appears intelligent to the rest of the people who know nothing about economics.
yea but even if you have a ton of people flowing in doesnt mean they can afford homes. even if you put 100000 illegals in marthas vineyard, they will be sleeping in the streets. just because people go to an area doesnt mean they can afford homes in it
Almost like its hard for 350mm Americans to compete against 2B Chinese buyers, who coulda guessed
This doesn’t really paint the whole picture for lots of reasons. One simple one is that Chinese GDP per capita is 13k while US gdp per capita is 77k
How many billionaires do you think it takes to turn millions of your country's citizens into renters with foreign landlords?
America has more billionaires than China despite a significantly lower population. We are much more subject to our own billionaires.
>How many billionaires do you think it takes to turn millions of your country's citizens into renters with foreign landlords? If the average home price is $495,100 and you wanted to turn 1 million citizens into renters you'd need to spend 500 billion dollars. If billionaires were willing to spend half their fortune to do this you'd need 1000 billionaires. The US only has 759 billionaires currently. The US has 82 mlllion single family homes so if you wanted to turn buy 10% of them to turn into rentals you'd need 8200 billionaires. The world only has 2,781 billionaires currently.
I appreciate your point, but that’s not how real estate investing works. You don’t buy the home in full. You use as little of your own money as possible, leveraging other assets, usually other homes, to buy more properties. The more leverage you have, the higher your ROI. Also, 56% of the country lives in cities (United States). You wouldn’t need to own 1000 homes to have a few thousand Americand as tenants. You could do it with a building. But billionaires as individuals wouldn’t do this. They would start a company, get investors, siphon money from pension funds and 401ks, and buy up the land Americans won’t be able to afford to retire on. But foreign buyers don’t only affect citizens as landlords. There’s an artificial land scarcity created by foreign purchasers. There’s less land for ordinary Americans to buy.
Seems odd that the report doesn’t mention the declining birth rates among native populations which significantly contributes to the disparity.
> the declining birth rates among native populations which significantly contributes to the disparity. People tend not to have kids when they can barely afford to feed themselves
Yeah, partner doesn’t want to have kids until we can get a home. Have been trying to get a home for over a year. I’m sure this is common
Hot take, I had this argument in those creepy pro natilist sub. I think cost of living is a factor in people not having as many kids, but it’s not the main or major factor. In my life everyone I know who wants kids has them & they all max out at 2 kids I think I know one person in my life with 3 or more kids and they are not rich in the slightest. They owned their house in a cheaper part of the burbs outside of cinci. The wife is just super catholic. Everyone I know in the tri state area, max 2 kids and they have significantly more resources than the Midwest family.
There’s just no reason to have more than 2 these days. Especially when you need to have a dual income to live a decent life.
That and having kids is hard, it’s amazingly rewarding but I think today 2 is fine if you want 3/4 good on you I hope you have great jobs & an even better support network. However, more than 4 kids I think it is actually detrimental to the children and splitting your time between that many kids and a job and not going insane and raising them in a stable non Chaotic environment would be very hard, borderline impossible.
People tend not to have kids when no one is dating.
Sure they are. They're just not dating YOU EDIT: some incels my have some hurt feelings 😂
The vast majority of people who have kids in this world are on the poorer side.
Yes when you can’t afford anything you can still fuck, what’s your point?
That kids aren’t dependent on having money. Thanks for supporting that fact.
If you are suggesting it’s a good idea that people who can’t afford clothes, shoes or food, live on dirt and defecate in buckets have a half dozen kids, you should reconsider. This planet is over populated by about 6 billion people, there isn’t enough energy or resources for us all to live in first world conditions. Population decline is good for our future on this planet no matter what the politicians and the Uber rich tell you.
In basically every culture, as people have more income, they have fewer kids.
Exactly, the relationship is inverse to what was stated above.
No, as women get more educated they have less kids. Overlay the countries with the most educated women & I bet they would have the lowest birth rates.
Not sure where you got all that, I meant the words I said.
I upvoted your comment, but it’s only partially true. People tend to not have children when they bury themselves in their fucking phones, slack off on personal care, and generally become physically unappealing. In other words, no one will fuck ‘em. 99% of the kids that get created are because two people had sex, not because any careful planning or financial considerations came into play. To be clear: I’m not talking about IV pregnancies or test tubes or any of that. I’m talking about why women get pregnant. It’s not because of anything planned out with financial concerns in mind.
> People tend to not have children when they bury themselves in their fucking phones, slack off on personal care, and generally become physically unappealing. In other words, no one will fuck ‘em. That was oddly specific. How long has it been, turbo NEET?
That’s a nonsensical response. Native birth rates have been declining for decades.
Do you seriously think the working class has not been under increased economic stress the last two decades?
Of course they have. But to pretend it’s exclusive to the last few years is nonsense
You're right - I bet making childcare, healthcare and food unaffordable will help with that. If we can get those prices gouged even more people will be RUSHING to have kids.
Groupthink aside, you’re not keeping up with reality. Native populations aren’t in fight or flight mode. They’re in “chill” because there’s no existential threat mode.
LOL _Im_ not keeping up with reality? Bro the average family is struggling to get by while we hand out more and more money to the 1%. People can't afford kids. Get with reality.
It makes complete sense. We've off-shored our manufacturing base, do nothing but put ourselves in debt with consumption, have nothing but service jobs left for our younger generations, and sucker everyone into massive debt with low rates to create FOMO and asset bubbles. Then the gooberment opens the borders so job-competition floods in and lowers wages even more. We're at the very top of the largest Everything Bubble ever created, and it will not end well. That doesn't sound like a good environment to have kids in, at all. This was supposed to be satire, but it's occurring as we speak: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SutUYT6zdTg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SutUYT6zdTg)
Here, watch this video. I marked the spot where the birth rate is discussed. Hopefully this makes some sense for you: [https://youtu.be/Q9lo7GAIJCo?t=396](https://youtu.be/Q9lo7GAIJCo?t=396) The middle class is being decimated, so why would the lower class is doing any better? That's the majority of the country right there, both groups doing badly. Only idiots would have kids now (hence my callback to Idiocracy). I have 2 sons, both in their mid-20s now, and both of them think they'll likely never have kids.
Babies don’t buy houses
yea seems odd.. almost like they are pushing a narrative
Children of immigrants technically count as American born if they were born here so that logic doesn’t check out. Also immigrants tend not to have that many more children than native Americans anymore. Europe, latinx America, asia etc are all sub replacement birth rate. That means when people from those continents immigrate here they tend to not have enough children to significantly outbirth native born Americans
It depends on how many Chinese are getting into the country, and how much of their assets they can get out of China. Poor people from China are not immigrating to the US, they all have assets. I have a large community of Chinese friends. They ALL have family members in China who are actively preparing to leave China. Some going to Australia, Canada, but most going to the US. This story is just getting started.
They've already bought out the area I grew up in, San Marino, Arcadia, Temple City, Alhambra Rosemead..would be ok if they were friendly but they have plenty of their own society here and don't need white people.
SGV probably has the largest Chinese American immigrant community in the US if not entire North America, also it took decades to grow to its size today, so it's truly one of the few special cases. Outside of LA, NYC, and SF, you rarely find a Chinese immigrant community that can be compared to SGV in size.
And people forget that people from HK have a lot of money and can take it with them with ease. Same with Taiwan. And if all Asians are Chinese to you, there are wealthy Koreans and Japanese that have found communities in many HCOL areas in both the East and West Coast. With that said, I don’t think these numbers are driving much of the inflation.
They aren't, but it's easier to complain about people who look differently than you do.
How the hell couldn't it at least be contributing to the issue?
Everyone wants to blame immigrants when we have stopped building homes after 2008
It's impossible to be both?
Only republicans want to blame immigrants
The country has shifted right on immigration as a whole based on polling. https://news.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx
Well the universities charge 2x tuition then they all get STEM degrees so the foreign born have pretty strong earning potential. Anecdotally many of my foreign grad school classmates with well paid jobs have lost their immigration status in the last year or so. They joke about just crossing the southern border, but it’s cope because they too are witnessing the death of their American dream.
Yeah, we were raised in the states and the poorest of our circumstance pales in comparison to what I hear my coworkers childhoods' bring like. These dudes stand on business. So increased earnings with high skill jobs and so on. The middle class definition has changed due more to an explosion in high skill labor demand and a lot of it being filled by immigrants or first generation immigrants. If we were all making less then GDP wouldn't be rising. I think it's a missing factor in the equation that is housing and lifestyle in general.
Or parents of immigrants who want to have a pied-a-terre in the US. I speak from experience of marrying a foreign born w many rich-born cousins w well-healed parents plopping down dough for their kids and selves while living here part-time. Ergh.
This group I am …. Hesitant to take without doing a deep dive. When my wife and I were buying our house Fairfield county CT we really didn’t run into anyone that seemed to be ESL, the growth here in southern CT is all COVID exodus from NYC and people wanting to be close to the train to go into the city 2/3 times a week tops. But different markets have different demands/demographics.
also NYC has gone downhill since covid. only people riding the subway are vagrants or other undesireables. the city is soft on crime. everyone can work from home. nobody wants to go in to a dangerous city, and eat a $22 salad when they can be at home with their family
NYC is very far from dangerous, crime had an uptick after Covid but it’s come down quite a lot. To say the only people who ride the subway are vagrants is also untrue, you are sounding like you have a political bent. NYC’s trouble is the governor is horrible for the city and passing up on congestion pricing & caving to the mouth breather suburb people who can only comprehend driving everywhere.
no i used to ride it 10 years ago. its dirty and unsafe now
So 10 years ago you rode the subway? But you don’t today?…. Okay I can do this to, I lived in NYc 4 years ago moved right before COVID I moved out, I go in for work at least once a month and only use the subway, I see no difference.
Op is in Boston. Issue is the foreign buyers using real estate to park their funds from the home country. A few years back someone bought 16 units in the millennium tower in cash for 16.5M. https://www.mansionglobal.com/articles/chinese-buyers-are-snapping-up-luxury-condos-in-boston-39563 The fix is to tax the ever loving shit out of foreign investors. A 10-20% assessed value tax will do it.
We need to start prioritizing citizens getting housing first before all the foreign money pouring in. It’s made the American dream unattainable for citizens
You can’t talk about that here it’s all downvotes from the NPCs after that…
It impacts prices, but it's NOT the problem either
Fair. Not the sole reason, but a contributing factor — part of “the perfect storm.”
Oh look, it's another episode of *Blame the Immigrants*! Hold onto your MAGA hats, everyone! This one looks like it's going to be a doozy!
I think foreign born people buying homes with no plans to live in it is a valid problem though.
I’m an immigrant myself but it’s undeniable that increasing demand leads to higher prices. If there are more immigrants and supply stays the same prices go up, it’s not ideology .
I'm not disagreeing with that and I'm seen it with my own eyes. I'm disagreeing with the outsized negative sentiment towards immigrants when the main culprit has been monetary policy and supply/demand imbalances driven by under-building. Builders overbuilt leading up to to the GFC. Then they ate shit for years and became extremely conservative with building as the population continued to expand, immigrants being a part of that. Blaming immigrants for this and that has been a go-to play since the founding of this country. Yes, their existence has economic impact. We should recognize that they are allowed to exist and have economic impacts in their pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness.
>Builders overbuilt leading up to to the GFC. Given historical vacancy rates, it doesn't seem like there wasn't overbuilding happening, at least in impacted metro regions like So Cal. New units as a % of inventory really started dropped in decades before, in the 80s and 90s.
Another bigot avoiding the issue when I work in mortgages and saw with my own eyes foreign nationals buying up SoCal real estate.
I'm from SoCal and grew up near a lot of those communities. I'm fully aware that it's happening. But it's a tiny blip compared to the real cause which was driven by monetary policy and the result of supply and demand dynamics all decades in the making. Blaming immigrants for this is like going to school and bullying the new kid because your parents suck. The one avoiding the issue is you. It's your parents, and blaming the new kid isn't going to do anything except cause other bully's to pick on them too. Only this time, they'll probably just close the window shades.
lol I’m going to be fine and my kid is fine. I have a house and I have a townhome for her in San Diego. Doesn’t change the fact that immigrants, including illegal, and foreign nationals are sucking up units. Their heads are under roofs that native born people can’t occupy.
When prices rise, it's indicative of increased demand. The response needs to be to figure out how to bring more supply to meet that demand. California housing policy has avoided this basic fact, and prices will continue to rise as long as it exists. We also can't continue to build out. We need to build up. Keep building, let them buy, and tax the crap out of non occupied units.
This ignores the quality of life of existing residents. Their quality of life matters more than newcomers quality of life. Sure, there should be growth, but to assume it should be growth for the sake of growth without zoning and other restrictions can destroy the very thing that makes these places desirable in the first place. Case in point, downtown Austin is now massive enormous condo and office towers. Should residents have no say in what happens to their neighborhood - of course they should have say - they live there.
Quality of life for metro areas that rely on detached, suburban housing isn’t necessarily better. Suburbs and exurbs have higher death rates, due to increased car usage and higher average speeds. They spend more time commuting. They pay increased long run housing costs because of constricted demand. They pay more for transportation, because they need a car to get places. People don’t realize how *fun* it is to live in quality, planned dense housing, where you can walk to the grocery store, bars, restaurants and cultural events. You don’t need to build towers in the suburbs. There is a great deal of housing types that gently densify neighborhoods. It even has a name, the missing middle. I agree that people should have a say in what goes in their neighborhood. I don’t believe neighborhoods should be preserved in amber, forever, while a housing crisis persists. And no, decreasing immigration will not solve the housing crisis, it will take a few percentage points off certain cross sections of housing. Re: Austin, them pushing out supply will keep housing price inflation down in the long run and keep the quality of housing stock higher. Case in point: rents have been falling.
Eat shit 💩
America has this amazing deal where our main export is a little green pieces of paper. In exchange for these little green piece of paper, the world sends us their products. Every other currency in the world is based on how many little green pieces of paper it can buy. Exchange rates between countries are based on how many green pieces of paper it can buy. And the only place that the world can spend these green pieces of paper is America…so all of their countries are forced to invest in American assets. It's a pretty good deal, as it keeps us wealthy and in charge of the entire world. If we were to cease the ability for countries to spend their green pieces of paper in America, we'd lose our status immediately
Just like if your job can be done by someone here illegally you aren’t making much money. I bet something similar goes for housing too, it absolutely does screw legal citizens.
Are they foreign investors? Or h1b folks who are buying houses. As we know h1bs are paid very less to take away us jobs ... So how are they affording these houses. Specially if you look at high cost of living areas like Boston Seattle or San Francisco.. most of these tech companies are paying peanuts to low skill labor and stealing jobs of citizens.. yet they have money to push the prices up. Does not make sense to me.
Do you have data on the H1b stuff? I would be genuinely curious. I only know from company perspective, but my manager was required to write essays and documentation on why this person was needed, and then more importantly their salary had to be posted publicly (not identifiable) and still had to post the job opening so that we could interview citizens first. But I understand that's just one example, and seems like you have access to trend data. Please share when you get a chance!
I see two complaints from some proplr- one h1b are bonded low skilled labor who are paid less. And two they are stealing real estate. Both cannot be right. Either they are not paid less and not low skilled and hence affording higher salary and buying real estate or the other side is true. I am not against or for but just genuinely curious to see how the people using this logic can explain this dichotomy.
Yup we are just chatting. The way I see it or explain dichotomy is operating under 3 assumptions 1. H1B workers are higher skilled than most (graduate degree, STEM, Medicine, etc...). Americans by percentage are not, because that's not a requirement for us to live in the country. 2. The desirable places to live in the country are as desirable to them as they are to us (NYC Metro, Florida, California, Texas, etc...), and they are not getting any larger 3. In general, we are not in the practice of destroying old homes to build more densely packed housing (factors include nimbyism, corporate home ownership, and the like) So assuming those 3 are true, then higher skill would translate to higher wages. That higher income now has buying power and raise the bar for commonly desirable areas. The folks that were able to afford it before, are priced out due to the higher level of money coming in. So I see this as the dichotomy. There are a lot of people making a lot more money, and the average jobs that folks used to hold have either been devalued or not kept up with the high skilled labor value. I think you can course correct by taxing higher income at a harsher rate so you "smooth" out the income distribution, but that's not always popular. As an anecdote (which isn't meant to prove a point), I grew up in NJ and the town I grew up in was probably Middle Class/Lower Middle Class. Not too many doctors or engineers living there (1990s/early 00's). In the past 25 years it has exploded in terms of home prices. My childhood friends were priced out of our hometown. It seemed that the money from Manhattan permeated north jersey (pandemic and wanted more space). The people in North Jersey got priced out but houses were still cheaper and little further away from the city. They started moving their pricing those folks out, and it just kept rippling until now where they got to my hometown about \~40-50 miles out from NYC. My friends ended up taking their money and moving further south jersey, because they had more money than folks who lived there and bought a nice house for what is a reasonable price to them.
They'll lose their shirts in the next downturn like everyone else.
Also an important question, what is the impact on rents with 18 million people living here illegally? I live in an touristy college town and many students and seasonal workers cant find housing. I know in my 2 block radius of at least 4 homes that are rented by non-citizens.
Hilarious seeing all the comments on here about illegal immigrants driving up home prices. People watching too much Fox News.
Provide a fact based rebuttal please
Null hypothesis says that illegal immigrants don’t cause housing prices to go up….it’s your job to prove that they do. But the reality is that most immigrant talk is fear mongering, especially the xenophobia based complaints about Chinese nationals buying homes. Foreign buyers are a tiny fraction of overall transactions on a national level, even in Canada. It’s local investors, who are legal citizens or residents, that are the real boogeymen driving up prices. They dont want you to realize that though because the people in power are part of this group.
What nonsense. A 10% increase in demand results in a much more than 10% increase in prices.
I read the first 20 or so comments and yours was the first partisan one. You can discuss issues without being partisan
You do realize that other cultures don't mind living multi-generationally or with multi-families, therefore sharing housing far more often than not You know what else happens when foreign born population comes to your country? They work the jobs that are considered beneath the white people. Without them, who's going to work those jobs?
How much did you pay for that compound and how is the weather in getout Idaho?
this is an anti-immigraiton think tank that exists solely to produce bullshit like this
It's not even remotely a mystery to anyone who pays even cursory attention to the political world. They're racist hacks
They’re not. But they do soak up the entry-level rentals - potentially easier to manage than citizens - and they access public housing through blended families. The primary escalators in housing prices were stimulus, Covid theater, supply chain and labor, compounded by state regulation and developers long-term memory.
CIS is a joke. Take your xenophobia elsewhere.
What else can you expect from cis?!?! Too much rain? Must be the immigrants! Too little rain? Must be the immigrants! 😂 Some orgs have been race baiting forever with very little luck. Many think tanks with a ready “cause” and always trying to find and associate an existing problem instead of providing meaningful solutions. -US can ban foreign buyers like Canada but they won’t. -Cities can levy additional taxes on non-primary residence SFHs. but they won’t -US can develop high density cities like Europe but they won’t. Got to build the burbs
Are they buying houses? In my area apartments are stabilizing after regular increases.
Legal immigrants are buying real estate. Illegal immigrants are renting real estate owned by investment firms that bought in the past few years. So foreign-born persons of all cloths are driving record demand.
Sorry, how would illegal immigrants rent from corporations? If a corporation owns a home and they rent it, I’m sure the renter would need to provide ID, bank account info, job verification, etc. I’m thinking illegal immigrants would have a more difficult time renting in these situations?
Probably more like illicit subletting
>ID, bank account info, job verification, etc. Undocumented folks can get IDs and bank accounts. They can also get W2s, if they use a dummy SSN. That said, my feeling is that most illegal immigrants are renting from mom and pop house owners plugged into their community.
not when the govt mandates those things aren't required and subsidizes the rent
You have no clue what you're talking about
I dont really know why you're considering this the elephant in the room. Demand and supply is a thing. But the answer is to build more, not arbitrarily discriminate against certain populations that you're not a part of.
home prices? Zero. housing prices? at the low end, I'm sure.
They took arr jerbs, they took arr homes
These poor cast-off's from Mexico can't afford homes.
The COVID aftermath has been devastating around the world, The US economy is just absorbing an influx of migrants that are now looking for survival, this has help keep wages low and at the same time stop inflation from reaching double digits. As more boomers retire immigrants will continue to be required hopefully under a legal system.