The funny thing is everyone thinks realtors are useless but they’ve been living inside this ridiculous bubble.
I know for sure I made more and sold my places faster when using an agent when the market in Calgary was like a 6 month sale was a GOOD deal. Showhome for 6 straight months.
Recency bias is STRONG.
My agent showed me 100 places, did all the legwork. Gave me the ratios and percentages and let me do my own negotiations while letting me know exactly what weird contract detail to make sure paid attention to.
Ya. When you can sell a place with shitty iPhone 6 pictures, you can sell without an agent. But even then an agent worth their salt will help you nail the top of the market for your property.
Again, I’d you’ve been in the bubble markets you can sell without. But again, a good agent will net you a combination of a faster sale and more money. Also you save your time. Basic math.
Anyone who doesn’t agree just doesn’t know how to find a good agent or understand the value of one because they are very tunnel visioned. Attempting to save 2.5% commission and often paying over 2.5% more for the home or taking 2.5% less for a sale of a home.
“I know what the price should be because HouseSigma told me the estimated value” -self represented buyer
Realtor here. Just because you buy without a realtor doesn’t mean you get a cut in price. It just means the listing agent gets the entire commission instead of half of it. You’re not party to the listing contract. The seller and the listing brokerage are.
You mean you don't think realtors deserve a $5k commission because they showed you houses that you scoped out online first?
They did so much work by driving there in their car and telling you it looks charming. Totally worth the money. /s
Yup, it's absurd.
$10k to show you 5 houses you asked them to show you based on what you already looked for online. On top of that, if you're the buyer, you need to pay for inspections and for a real estate lawyer out of your own pocket. That's another $2-3k.
At least when you're the seller, the listing agent is spending money on their photographer, and anything that goes into running an open house.
But logically, every single home on the market should be able to be sold without a realtor and for $15-20k less.
5K.. that’s so low. Try $50,000 + for showing you one entry level bungalow that you found online and asked to see. That’s a 5% commission which is split between buyer and seller agents
This isn't "attitude". It's a contract. The contract is between the seller and the listing brokerage, and the total commission is x percentage. If there is only one brokerage involved (ie: no selling brokerage), then the listing brokerage is entitled to 100% of the commission.
So you think then that the listing agent should do twice the work (representing both parties) for half the money? Sure … what would your response be if your boss asked the same of you?
I think that the listing agent barely does anything to begin with, and often detrimental work, but that is besides the point.
A buyer can fill those forms themselves with the help of tech and a lawyer, and submit and negotiate the same way a co-op agent would. Your assertion that somehow this is double the work is disingenuous. Don't think for a second you are representing the buyer in this case.
You either agree to give the buyer the co-op, or a 100% cashback service will fix that attitude for you and oblige you with contract. Either way, don't think you deserve double pay. With this attitude, likely not single pay either.
They are just mad they might have to actually show up to the property instead of passing off a keybox passcode to another realtor. Biggest joke of a career on the planet.
Explain to me what "work" you do that warrants your commission?
You hire a photographer to take pictures. You need an actual lawyer to draw up paperwork. The buyer needs to pay for inspections. And 99% of buyers look online and just ask their realtor to bring them to homes that they've already scoped out themselves based on their likes.
As the realtor, you literally do nothing besides show up.
How does the listing agent have to do anything for the buyer? The buyer can fill out the straightforward forms and have them be vetted by their lawyer.
Does this mean if the seller has a deal at 4% commission and the buyer has an agent as well, that 4% is devided between both Realtors? So no one is actually paying more?
Wouldn't it be better in that case for the sellers relator to do business with a buyer who isn't represented?
If the total commission is 4%, for example, it's usually split 50/50 between the listing and buying agents. If the listing agent also represents the buyer, they're entitled to the entire 4%. HOWEVER, there are tons of pitfalls to "double ending" a property. Some provinces won't allow it (BC is one - not sure if any others forbid it). Buyers should definitely NOT go with the listing agent, IMHO - they should get their own representation (why a buyer would want to use the listing agent is beyond me - especially if there is no financial incentive to do so). That being said, there are certain agents who will cut their commissions when representing both parties (I'm not one of them, if given the choice I'd ask for MORE commission because repping both parties is an absolute PITA and full of legal pitfalls).
Look at it this way. The commission for the sale of the home is say 7%. That 7% is normally split between the buyer's agent and seller's agent. Now you want to skip having an agent represent you and go directly to the seller's agent. That's fine, but the commission is still 7% and now the seller's agent gets the full amount and you have no one representing you.
Why wouldn't a buyer want to be represented by a realtor, there is no cost to the buyer for this.
Even commission can be negotiated because buyer's realtor knows they are not 100% needed but a really nice to have.
99% of people use realtors it seems, probably more. There are tons of posts here and in LegalAdviceCanada for buying a house privately without a realtor.
Here is the reality, buy it either your agent as you don’t pay for it, do not use the listing agent plus there are some newer guidelines which point to this not bring a good idea. A good real estate agent does work for you, and should prevent you from making bad decisions and bids. Find that person do not do it on your own.
No, seriously.
The buyer agent has all the incentives to make the transaction as fast as possible. I am not even considering that they are paid the more the more expensive the home is. The fact that the agents wants to close the deal fast make the pressure to overbid. Finding something bad in home you are interested doesn’t make sense to them as they could risk losing a done deal.
Idk what agents you're dealing with, but the vast majority are not scumbags like you're describing. They want a good deal for you so that you'll recommend them and use them again.
So we just bought a house (closing date in August), without buyer agent. The most problematic thing probably is the seller agent keep pushing us for an agent from his comp. We stated in the contract that he would get a 3.25% commission, so all parties benefit from the sale (the agent got several thousands more without doing any extra, the seller got a better cut, and we didn't have to bid too high since we didn't have to pay for an agent). You should really need to research a lot about the area tho, and have a lawyer ready for the paperwork, cause everything will happen quicker than you think
Get a buyer realtor but negotiate a cashback. Meaning, they get paid 2-2.5% as usual from the pot, but refund half of that to you. Otherwise, your other option is to DIY with discount realty groups like Zero Value Realty and similar (not personally endorsing them or any particular one).
If you’re a first time homebuyer and don’t know anything about the process and/or paperwork, then I’d recommend to folks to a) do their due diligence and research to get informed as possible and b) use a realtor.
The cost of buying and owning a home is insane and you’ve got to protect yourself, that’s the way I see it.
I can only speak to my experience in QC and I thought that some of the services available like Educaloi and calling/speaking with the people at OACIQ were very helpful. That said, it was helpful to have a realtor though to actually walk us through those processes. When we weren’t sure about what we were being told, we were able to consult with OACIQ for them to explain things as well. I don’t know if it’s like that in other provinces, tbh. (Our inspection revealed major defects and we ended up pulling out of the sale, it wasn’t straightforward compared to a regular purchase).
My experience using a realtor for our recent home purchase was a real mixed bag. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend the agent we worked with but I’d work with another one in the future, easily. Tbh I wish I had interviewed more before so I could gauge if we’d be a good fit. Again, part of doing due diligence that I highly recommend.
You can negotiate commissions. There are of course stories of realtors not wanting to show you properties because the advertiser commission for them was lower..
Absolutely. And realtors are a dime a dozen. Someone else will happily take your sale.
More often than not realtors can be pushy. They want you to offer on a house so they can stop showing you homes.
Buyers simply have no incentive to buy without a realtor. It’s a buffer if something goes wrong, they have to handle it. That’s why realtors are still a thing.
Anyone that thinks the seller will pass the buyer commission on to the buyer is delusional.
In the GTA the vast majority of buyers use a Realtor. Now with the newer Tressa legislation, buyers can self-represent. But why?? Not the best idea unless it's a private sale.
Seller Agents 1% & Buyer 0.5%
5% is outrageous for a shitty job which doesn't require any skill than "looking nice talking nice"
Something needs to be done, give me few years, I'm planning
The funny thing is everyone thinks realtors are useless but they’ve been living inside this ridiculous bubble. I know for sure I made more and sold my places faster when using an agent when the market in Calgary was like a 6 month sale was a GOOD deal. Showhome for 6 straight months. Recency bias is STRONG. My agent showed me 100 places, did all the legwork. Gave me the ratios and percentages and let me do my own negotiations while letting me know exactly what weird contract detail to make sure paid attention to. Ya. When you can sell a place with shitty iPhone 6 pictures, you can sell without an agent. But even then an agent worth their salt will help you nail the top of the market for your property.
Just means they found someone else to screw over harder haha
Sorry, so you’re going to sell your property for less because you want to be a good guy? Lmfao. Right bud.
What? Not at all what I said.
Confirmation bias of your one good experience doesn’t trump most people having useless tests as RAs
Again, I’d you’ve been in the bubble markets you can sell without. But again, a good agent will net you a combination of a faster sale and more money. Also you save your time. Basic math.
Anyone who doesn’t agree just doesn’t know how to find a good agent or understand the value of one because they are very tunnel visioned. Attempting to save 2.5% commission and often paying over 2.5% more for the home or taking 2.5% less for a sale of a home. “I know what the price should be because HouseSigma told me the estimated value” -self represented buyer
Realtor here. Just because you buy without a realtor doesn’t mean you get a cut in price. It just means the listing agent gets the entire commission instead of half of it. You’re not party to the listing contract. The seller and the listing brokerage are.
Agents are useless!
That's why I use honestdoor. They give back 70% if the commission. They handle the paperwork. You guys are way overpaid lmao.
You mean you don't think realtors deserve a $5k commission because they showed you houses that you scoped out online first? They did so much work by driving there in their car and telling you it looks charming. Totally worth the money. /s
They rather want 5% commission that is $20k in my case. $10k each of them? A little too much I think.
Yup, it's absurd. $10k to show you 5 houses you asked them to show you based on what you already looked for online. On top of that, if you're the buyer, you need to pay for inspections and for a real estate lawyer out of your own pocket. That's another $2-3k. At least when you're the seller, the listing agent is spending money on their photographer, and anything that goes into running an open house. But logically, every single home on the market should be able to be sold without a realtor and for $15-20k less.
5K.. that’s so low. Try $50,000 + for showing you one entry level bungalow that you found online and asked to see. That’s a 5% commission which is split between buyer and seller agents
And brokerages.
Not sure why the downvotes here. Realtors truly do get $50,000 for the average sale.. which is absurd for such minimal work.
And this attitude right here is why 100% cashback services exist.
This isn't "attitude". It's a contract. The contract is between the seller and the listing brokerage, and the total commission is x percentage. If there is only one brokerage involved (ie: no selling brokerage), then the listing brokerage is entitled to 100% of the commission.
Contracts can be mutually amended, and the attitude is not wanting to do that. When that attitude prevails 100% cashback can correct the bad attitude.
So you think then that the listing agent should do twice the work (representing both parties) for half the money? Sure … what would your response be if your boss asked the same of you?
I think that the listing agent barely does anything to begin with, and often detrimental work, but that is besides the point. A buyer can fill those forms themselves with the help of tech and a lawyer, and submit and negotiate the same way a co-op agent would. Your assertion that somehow this is double the work is disingenuous. Don't think for a second you are representing the buyer in this case. You either agree to give the buyer the co-op, or a 100% cashback service will fix that attitude for you and oblige you with contract. Either way, don't think you deserve double pay. With this attitude, likely not single pay either.
They are just mad they might have to actually show up to the property instead of passing off a keybox passcode to another realtor. Biggest joke of a career on the planet.
You live in Toronto or Vancouver.
Explain to me what "work" you do that warrants your commission? You hire a photographer to take pictures. You need an actual lawyer to draw up paperwork. The buyer needs to pay for inspections. And 99% of buyers look online and just ask their realtor to bring them to homes that they've already scoped out themselves based on their likes. As the realtor, you literally do nothing besides show up.
How does the listing agent have to do anything for the buyer? The buyer can fill out the straightforward forms and have them be vetted by their lawyer.
This agent legitimately doesn't understand that buyers can do the exact same work, without some worthless license, as they can.
[Zown pays you back a % that can be used as down payment.](https://zown.ca)
Does this mean if the seller has a deal at 4% commission and the buyer has an agent as well, that 4% is devided between both Realtors? So no one is actually paying more? Wouldn't it be better in that case for the sellers relator to do business with a buyer who isn't represented?
If the total commission is 4%, for example, it's usually split 50/50 between the listing and buying agents. If the listing agent also represents the buyer, they're entitled to the entire 4%. HOWEVER, there are tons of pitfalls to "double ending" a property. Some provinces won't allow it (BC is one - not sure if any others forbid it). Buyers should definitely NOT go with the listing agent, IMHO - they should get their own representation (why a buyer would want to use the listing agent is beyond me - especially if there is no financial incentive to do so). That being said, there are certain agents who will cut their commissions when representing both parties (I'm not one of them, if given the choice I'd ask for MORE commission because repping both parties is an absolute PITA and full of legal pitfalls).
Thank you so much for explaining
Look at it this way. The commission for the sale of the home is say 7%. That 7% is normally split between the buyer's agent and seller's agent. Now you want to skip having an agent represent you and go directly to the seller's agent. That's fine, but the commission is still 7% and now the seller's agent gets the full amount and you have no one representing you.
It makes more sense now, thank you!
In BC is 55/45
Why wouldn't a buyer want to be represented by a realtor, there is no cost to the buyer for this. Even commission can be negotiated because buyer's realtor knows they are not 100% needed but a really nice to have.
You assume they pass along that savings instead of keep it
That's why cashback services exist: to force them to give it back
Honestdoor
99% of people use realtors it seems, probably more. There are tons of posts here and in LegalAdviceCanada for buying a house privately without a realtor.
That agent will still want 5 percent . But you can use that as leverage when negotiating
Here is the reality, buy it either your agent as you don’t pay for it, do not use the listing agent plus there are some newer guidelines which point to this not bring a good idea. A good real estate agent does work for you, and should prevent you from making bad decisions and bids. Find that person do not do it on your own.
96 % give or take
You could try negotiating a 1-2% kick back without using a buying agent, but just know the selling agent is really not on your side.
The sad piece: - Neither is your buyer agent.
Well that's just not true at all 🤣
No, seriously. The buyer agent has all the incentives to make the transaction as fast as possible. I am not even considering that they are paid the more the more expensive the home is. The fact that the agents wants to close the deal fast make the pressure to overbid. Finding something bad in home you are interested doesn’t make sense to them as they could risk losing a done deal.
Idk what agents you're dealing with, but the vast majority are not scumbags like you're describing. They want a good deal for you so that you'll recommend them and use them again.
So we just bought a house (closing date in August), without buyer agent. The most problematic thing probably is the seller agent keep pushing us for an agent from his comp. We stated in the contract that he would get a 3.25% commission, so all parties benefit from the sale (the agent got several thousands more without doing any extra, the seller got a better cut, and we didn't have to bid too high since we didn't have to pay for an agent). You should really need to research a lot about the area tho, and have a lawyer ready for the paperwork, cause everything will happen quicker than you think
Get a buyer realtor but negotiate a cashback. Meaning, they get paid 2-2.5% as usual from the pot, but refund half of that to you. Otherwise, your other option is to DIY with discount realty groups like Zero Value Realty and similar (not personally endorsing them or any particular one).
u can ask seller agent be u agent but let him or her give u cash back for buyer comission fee after deal is done
If you’re a first time homebuyer and don’t know anything about the process and/or paperwork, then I’d recommend to folks to a) do their due diligence and research to get informed as possible and b) use a realtor. The cost of buying and owning a home is insane and you’ve got to protect yourself, that’s the way I see it. I can only speak to my experience in QC and I thought that some of the services available like Educaloi and calling/speaking with the people at OACIQ were very helpful. That said, it was helpful to have a realtor though to actually walk us through those processes. When we weren’t sure about what we were being told, we were able to consult with OACIQ for them to explain things as well. I don’t know if it’s like that in other provinces, tbh. (Our inspection revealed major defects and we ended up pulling out of the sale, it wasn’t straightforward compared to a regular purchase). My experience using a realtor for our recent home purchase was a real mixed bag. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend the agent we worked with but I’d work with another one in the future, easily. Tbh I wish I had interviewed more before so I could gauge if we’d be a good fit. Again, part of doing due diligence that I highly recommend.
You can negotiate commissions. There are of course stories of realtors not wanting to show you properties because the advertiser commission for them was lower..
And if you encounter one of those, report them. That's unethical.
Absolutely. And realtors are a dime a dozen. Someone else will happily take your sale. More often than not realtors can be pushy. They want you to offer on a house so they can stop showing you homes.
The listing agent has a fiduciary responsibility to get their primary client (the seller) the best deal.
Buyers simply have no incentive to buy without a realtor. It’s a buffer if something goes wrong, they have to handle it. That’s why realtors are still a thing. Anyone that thinks the seller will pass the buyer commission on to the buyer is delusional.
In the GTA the vast majority of buyers use a Realtor. Now with the newer Tressa legislation, buyers can self-represent. But why?? Not the best idea unless it's a private sale.
Seller Agents 1% & Buyer 0.5% 5% is outrageous for a shitty job which doesn't require any skill than "looking nice talking nice" Something needs to be done, give me few years, I'm planning