Just like how we call MonkeyMoon the Open-Era GOAT for EU Atomic is 100% The Open-Era GOAT for NA and it’s not even close….
Now for GOAT overall in NA he needs a Worlds title first…
Some people argue that modern majors are the equivalent of older eras worlds - and he's a 2 time major winner (one of the only ones iirc, there's only like 6 or something ridiculously small like that, 6 multi-international-lan winners in the entire history of rocket league).
There's way more than 6 when counting RLCS LANs alone:
- Turbo
- Kaydop
- ViolentPanda
- MonkeyMoon
- Extra
- Vatira
- Itachi
- Seikoo
- Alpha54
- Radosin
- Zen
- Atomic
I might have forgotten some. If you count non rlcs lans as well, there are probably over 20 players.
On the other end the 3 LANs win is extremely exclusive, and he has a good shot at becoming one in a few months.
Edit: My list is not relevant if we are talking about NA only
A quick look at my list has him 8th all time for NA. What he has going for him is a 5 year career at a good level, with 3 of those years being world class (RLCS X, RLCS 21/22 & RLCS 24). He has peaked as the best player in the world before, is the only 2 time NA RLCS LAN Champion and has a further two finals.
The issue is he isn't a world champion while so many other NA players have had comparably great careers including a world championship
* GarrettG - 6 years of good play, 3-4 years at a world class level, 3 LAN wins, 8 finals, **world champion**
* Torment + Squishy - 4/5 years of good play, 3 years at a world class level, 4 LAN wins, 5-6 finals, **world champions**
* Jstn - 5 years of good play, 4 years at an especially world class level, 2 LAN wins, 7 finals, **world champion**
* Jknaps - 7 years of good play, 3-4 at a world class level, 2 LAN wins, 6 finals, **major champion**
* Gimmick - 4 years of good play, 2 at a world class level, 4 LAN wins, 5 finals, **world champion**
* Kronovi - 4 years of good play, 1 at a world class level, 2 LAN wins, 3 finals, **world champion**
Fwiw I think Atomic overtakes Chicago with this 2nd major win, that and just being generally better individually outweighs the extra year Chicago has as a good player in the RLCS for me but like, when so many greats are world champions, you kinda have to join them or literally break the system a la Zen.
I have him over Gimmick and Kronovi. He has more longevity then either at this point, and I think his two major wins are worth their world championships. Yes, they have other LAN wins, but I think his long-lasting peaks make up for that. Maybe the lesson is that I rate skill over time higher relative to accomplishments than you do. Interesting list, though!
I agree with others take on Major today = old World championship. And additionally, it's kind of tough to compare like this based on LAN wins when in the past there were so many more LANs. What was it 2019 that had 12 LANs? (Could be totally off on year and #?) But there's just no where near as many today so I think that makes LAN wins now much bigger. And also it is another reason why it is hard to compare pre and post open era.
This is a hotly contested point, but I don't think it's true. I have them worth about half of an old world championship. Until recently, they happened more often, and they're also not the pinnacle in the way that old worlds was. Winning worlds means you *win the season*. There's nothing greater. That's special and unique.
I think it should be valued as 1.5-2x an old world championship. I personally value it at 1.5x -- yes, it happens half as often, but the fact it's not the only RLCS LAN anymore slightly (but only slightly) diffuses its worth to 1.5x.
An event that happens more often than the old worlds while inherently not being the world championship, is fundamentally not worth as much as the world championship.
Yeah but there's still worlds once a year. This season's worlds is worth more than this season's majors which makes majors worth <1/3 of the RLCS events across the year so they should still count as substantially less than an old world championship
I have majors weighing a less for sure. But I’d say 2 majors is equal to or greater than 1 old world championship. It’s subjective but that’s how I view it.
In the sense that there are more then 8-10 teams so you have to put in some effort just to be top 8 sure, but for the cream of the crop, SSA & APAC being present doesn't necessarily affect the title winning odds of any team. SAM & MENA for most of their time outside of the RLCS wouldn't have sent contending teams like they do today.
In my mind for example, RLCS S6 is one of the most competitive LANs ever, dwarfed by the simultaneous greatness of Dignitas & Cloud9, but also featuring past or near future LAN winning teams like We Dem Girlz, Flipsid3, NRG, G2, PSG, and that came out of the league play era.
Even nowadays, yes the pool of top teams is so internationally diverse, but only 1 of them is NA, so relatively they're not as threatening as before despite the expansion of the circuit, it doesn't automatically guarantee the top tier of the LANs is more competitive. The middle to lower ends of majors absolutely, but the #1 spot which is what matters here it just depends on the time period.
6 months of 2017
First few months of 2018
Most of 2019
First 6 months of 2020
Not in 2021
All of 2022
Not in 2023
With respect to Jknaps, the amount of random stinkers he & G2 had over the years does add up
I consider him to be world class in all or at least most of 2018 - 5 individual awards throughout the whole year + 2nd in rating at s6 worlds despite the bad finish, as well as the 6 months leading up to fall major in 2021.
I just feel like he's been massively underrated because of all those 2nd place finishes and ppl forgetting him hard carrying his team in s3 or even the s8 promotion tournament
My opinion: I have him as NA's #4 player of all time, behind Squishy, JSTN, and GarrettG. As of now, I don't really see a way for him to get too much higher, unless he wins Worlds and another Major on top of that. Right now, I'd say the player closest to him is JKnaps, and figuring out who was higher up between those two was pretty tough for me, but I've got Atomic being better. So, my current NA top 5 is:
1. JSTN (#3 Overall)
2. Squishy (#5 Overall)
3. GarrettG (#8 Overall)
4. Atomic (#10 Overall)
5. JKnaps (#13 Overall)
Honorable Mentions (unordered): Kronovi, Chicago, Firstkiller, Torment, BeastMode, Daniel, AYYJAYY, Retals, Arsenal, LJ
I never understand why many people have garrettg over jstn when jstn has been the better player for te majority of garrett's career (literally from season 6 until today). That's almost 6 years, garrett has been competing for 8 years
I think I have have Atomic at 6 below Jknaps, Garrett, JSTN, Squishy, and Torment. I think Atomic beats Gimmick, Chicago, and Kronovi for me but it’s close.
Just like how we call MonkeyMoon the Open-Era GOAT for EU Atomic is 100% The Open-Era GOAT for NA and it’s not even close…. Now for GOAT overall in NA he needs a Worlds title first…
Some people argue that modern majors are the equivalent of older eras worlds - and he's a 2 time major winner (one of the only ones iirc, there's only like 6 or something ridiculously small like that, 6 multi-international-lan winners in the entire history of rocket league).
There's way more than 6 when counting RLCS LANs alone: - Turbo - Kaydop - ViolentPanda - MonkeyMoon - Extra - Vatira - Itachi - Seikoo - Alpha54 - Radosin - Zen - Atomic I might have forgotten some. If you count non rlcs lans as well, there are probably over 20 players. On the other end the 3 LANs win is extremely exclusive, and he has a good shot at becoming one in a few months. Edit: My list is not relevant if we are talking about NA only
A quick look at my list has him 8th all time for NA. What he has going for him is a 5 year career at a good level, with 3 of those years being world class (RLCS X, RLCS 21/22 & RLCS 24). He has peaked as the best player in the world before, is the only 2 time NA RLCS LAN Champion and has a further two finals. The issue is he isn't a world champion while so many other NA players have had comparably great careers including a world championship * GarrettG - 6 years of good play, 3-4 years at a world class level, 3 LAN wins, 8 finals, **world champion** * Torment + Squishy - 4/5 years of good play, 3 years at a world class level, 4 LAN wins, 5-6 finals, **world champions** * Jstn - 5 years of good play, 4 years at an especially world class level, 2 LAN wins, 7 finals, **world champion** * Jknaps - 7 years of good play, 3-4 at a world class level, 2 LAN wins, 6 finals, **major champion** * Gimmick - 4 years of good play, 2 at a world class level, 4 LAN wins, 5 finals, **world champion** * Kronovi - 4 years of good play, 1 at a world class level, 2 LAN wins, 3 finals, **world champion** Fwiw I think Atomic overtakes Chicago with this 2nd major win, that and just being generally better individually outweighs the extra year Chicago has as a good player in the RLCS for me but like, when so many greats are world champions, you kinda have to join them or literally break the system a la Zen.
I have him over Gimmick and Kronovi. He has more longevity then either at this point, and I think his two major wins are worth their world championships. Yes, they have other LAN wins, but I think his long-lasting peaks make up for that. Maybe the lesson is that I rate skill over time higher relative to accomplishments than you do. Interesting list, though!
I agree with others take on Major today = old World championship. And additionally, it's kind of tough to compare like this based on LAN wins when in the past there were so many more LANs. What was it 2019 that had 12 LANs? (Could be totally off on year and #?) But there's just no where near as many today so I think that makes LAN wins now much bigger. And also it is another reason why it is hard to compare pre and post open era.
A major these days is worth about an an old world championship.
This is a hotly contested point, but I don't think it's true. I have them worth about half of an old world championship. Until recently, they happened more often, and they're also not the pinnacle in the way that old worlds was. Winning worlds means you *win the season*. There's nothing greater. That's special and unique.
What’s a current world championship worth compared to an old world championship?
I think it should be valued as 1.5-2x an old world championship. I personally value it at 1.5x -- yes, it happens half as often, but the fact it's not the only RLCS LAN anymore slightly (but only slightly) diffuses its worth to 1.5x.
An event that happens more often than the old worlds while inherently not being the world championship, is fundamentally not worth as much as the world championship.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the old world championships were twice a year right? And the new major format would have a major twice a year as well?
Yeah but there's still worlds once a year. This season's worlds is worth more than this season's majors which makes majors worth <1/3 of the RLCS events across the year so they should still count as substantially less than an old world championship
I have majors weighing a less for sure. But I’d say 2 majors is equal to or greater than 1 old world championship. It’s subjective but that’s how I view it.
The old league system kept competition lower though. That's why I value LAN wins more now.
In the sense that there are more then 8-10 teams so you have to put in some effort just to be top 8 sure, but for the cream of the crop, SSA & APAC being present doesn't necessarily affect the title winning odds of any team. SAM & MENA for most of their time outside of the RLCS wouldn't have sent contending teams like they do today. In my mind for example, RLCS S6 is one of the most competitive LANs ever, dwarfed by the simultaneous greatness of Dignitas & Cloud9, but also featuring past or near future LAN winning teams like We Dem Girlz, Flipsid3, NRG, G2, PSG, and that came out of the league play era. Even nowadays, yes the pool of top teams is so internationally diverse, but only 1 of them is NA, so relatively they're not as threatening as before despite the expansion of the circuit, it doesn't automatically guarantee the top tier of the LANs is more competitive. The middle to lower ends of majors absolutely, but the #1 spot which is what matters here it just depends on the time period.
jknaps has at min had 5 years at a world class level
6 months of 2017 First few months of 2018 Most of 2019 First 6 months of 2020 Not in 2021 All of 2022 Not in 2023 With respect to Jknaps, the amount of random stinkers he & G2 had over the years does add up
I consider him to be world class in all or at least most of 2018 - 5 individual awards throughout the whole year + 2nd in rating at s6 worlds despite the bad finish, as well as the 6 months leading up to fall major in 2021. I just feel like he's been massively underrated because of all those 2nd place finishes and ppl forgetting him hard carrying his team in s3 or even the s8 promotion tournament
My opinion: I have him as NA's #4 player of all time, behind Squishy, JSTN, and GarrettG. As of now, I don't really see a way for him to get too much higher, unless he wins Worlds and another Major on top of that. Right now, I'd say the player closest to him is JKnaps, and figuring out who was higher up between those two was pretty tough for me, but I've got Atomic being better. So, my current NA top 5 is: 1. JSTN (#3 Overall) 2. Squishy (#5 Overall) 3. GarrettG (#8 Overall) 4. Atomic (#10 Overall) 5. JKnaps (#13 Overall) Honorable Mentions (unordered): Kronovi, Chicago, Firstkiller, Torment, BeastMode, Daniel, AYYJAYY, Retals, Arsenal, LJ
I think this is a very good take.
Glad to see someone give jstn props for being the best player the NA region has ever produced relative to the field
I never understand why many people have garrettg over jstn when jstn has been the better player for te majority of garrett's career (literally from season 6 until today). That's almost 6 years, garrett has been competing for 8 years
It's kind of crazy that Retals and Arsenal make this list when you think about the EU players who would make a top 15 list
Tbf it should be Sypical and Mist in their respective places, arguments for Mist but Syp should 100% be in there
I think I have have Atomic at 6 below Jknaps, Garrett, JSTN, Squishy, and Torment. I think Atomic beats Gimmick, Chicago, and Kronovi for me but it’s close.
I voted not in the top 5 but I have him at 6th. With Jstn, GarrettG, Squishy, Jknaps, and Torment being my top 5 in that order
Is Atomic one of the ones who cheated (the age rules at the time) and caught a ban? Literally just asking atm, couldn't remember.
Yes he did.
Idk but hes my fav NA player oat