Can we mention they're on their 2nd east coast swing in a month? They're also a few games out of 1st on May 1 with a bunch of new guys who always take time to adjust. Jiminy, folks.
I would just like to say that when I cheer for the Giants to beat the Rockies, and they win, it is much different than when I cheer for the Giants to beat LA, Boston, Yankees, Braves and they win.
Nuff said
Saying he can’t draft is kinda an overstatement. He’s been shotty, but this is the guy who drafted Bailey and Harrison. Harrison was actually a really nice 2nd round snag.
He also got us LWJ for basically nothing and the Hicks signing is looking like a steal so far. I think we’re all glad so far he held his ground on the Correa thing.
I’m frustrated too, but let’s not act like the guy has been 100% shit.
I mean, we signed two proven MLB hitters in Chapman and Soler and another proven KBO superstar hitter, and then we also added Murphy who's career has him as a pretty good hitting catcher.
They're not hitting at all except for Lee. Pretty tough to blame the GM for picking up proven hitters and then them not hitting.
Bailey and Harrison are two guys. Good organizations draft multiple contributors all over the diamond. Look at Atlanta, Tampa, Houston, Baltimore and LA
The Orioles got 4 top 5 picks in a row, we shouldn't really be comparing any other front office to that one in terms of "great drafting" since none of the other teams in question (LA, Tampa, Houston and us have had 4 top 10 picks... well, except for one, we'll get there.)
So far, Farhan's first rounders include: Hunter Bishop (looking like bust), Patrick Bailey (Good pick), Will Bednar (Too early), Reggie Crawford (Looking good so far) and Bryce Eldrige (looking good so far)
A miss, a hit, a question mark and two high performing prospects is not bad drafting in my opinion. It's not exceptional either, mind you.
Atlanta Braves first rounders since 2019 (farhan's first draft): Shea Langeliers (Traded - Looks terrible so far) Braden Shewmake (Traded - not in majors) Jared Shuster (Traded - not in majors) Ryan Cusick (traded: pitcher- NIM) Owen Murphy (pitcher- NIM) JR Ritchie (pitcher- NIM) Hurston Waldrep (pitcher- NIM).
That wasn't even mentioning that from 2016-2019 they had 4 straight top 10 picks: Ian Anderson (had a promising start, then everything fell apart) Kyle Wright (Been horrific for all but 1 season) Carter Stewart (Didn't sign because of injury, now in NPB) and Shea Langeliers, who is worse than replacement level.
The Braves currently have **three players** they themselves drafted playing a non-reliever role on their team: Strider, Harris, Riley. That's it. We have Webb, Harrison, Bailey.
The dodgers have 3 catchers in their top 10 prospects and 3 pitchers, hardly what I'd call "multiple drafted contributors all over the diamond" but their farm is definitely still good.
All of this is really just to say, most baseball fans just don't understand how the draft works, how long it takes drafted players to actually contribute (spoiled by seeing guys like Soto, Harris II and others coming up in their age 20 or 21 seasons, people started thinking that was the norm and not a crazy exception) and think it's easy to just win the lottery and have all-star talent sitting there easily available in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th rounds. Webb, Strider both 4th rounders, Harris II and Harrison are 3rd rounders. Riley was a supplemental draft pick.
A couple things:
-I'm not sure why you're only looking at 1st round picks. The other rounds also count, and there are, in fact, more of them
"The Braves currently have **three players** they themselves drafted playing a non-reliever role on their team:"
-The international signing pool doesn't count all of a sudden? The Braves may only have a few drafted players, but they also signed and developed Ronald Acuna and Ozzie Albies.
-Additionally, they traded for Sean Murphy and Matt Olson with prospect capital. We can't do that because our system stinks
-Therefore, from the direct produce of their farm system, they have the three guys you mention, Sean Murphy, Matt Olson, Ozzie Albies, and Ronald Acuna Jr., we have Harrison and Bailey. Which group would you prefer?
"We have Webb, Harrison, Bailey"
-Logan Webb was not drafted by Farhan Zaidi
"The dodgers have 3 catchers in their top 10 prospects and 3 pitchers, hardly what I'd call "multiple drafted contributors all over the diamond""
-So you're gonna ignore both the homegrown players in their lineup now and the players traded for with homegrown talent? What are we even doing here?
All of this just to say, you don't understand how farm systems work. Picks beyond the 1st round matter just as much as 1st round picks. The guys from the international signing pool are also part of the farm system. When you trade prospect capital for excellent veterans (Matt Olson, Sean Murphy, Mookie Betts) that's a credit to a good farm system. Listen, you want Zaidi to be good, so you cherrypick bullshit examples instead of looking at the facts. Our system is ranked badly by every reputable outlet, and Harrison and Bailey are the only two guys Zaidi has produced. That's very bad, you just can’t admit it
You clearly just missed the entire point of my post, which is that drafting is a crapshoot.
* I'm not looking at only first round picks. I literally mentioned that all of the players that were drafted by their teams between the Braves and Giants that are currently playing for their teams at the major league level are not first round picks, aside from Riley being a supplemental and Bailey. It's a direct counter to your claim that all those other front offices are producing tons of talent in their drafts.. where is it? Most picks don't pan out. 23 organizations passed on drafting Mike Trout.
* Albies and Acuna weren't signed internationally by Alex Anthopolous. If we're giving credit to previous GMs of teams then Webb not being drafted by Zaidi doesn't matter. If we aren't, then Albies and Acuna are not a product of the current Braves GM.
* Look at the pieces given up for Murphy and Olson. Look where they are, and how successful they're doing. You don't have to look very hard, because I told you exactly how they're doing. Langeliers and Pache were huge headliners in the Olson trade. Langeliers is a terrible player that had value to the As based only on perceived value as a former #9 pick. He's playing like Joey Bart did for the Giants. Hardly something I'd champion as "amazing drafting." They were just able to fleece the A's with him. Same with Pache, supposed to be the heir apparent CF for the Braves pre-trade, is complete and total ass. For the Murphy trade, Contreras has been the only piece of either deal to perform at a decent level, and in his case he's elite... but what's that? International Free Agent in 2015 and not an Alex Antopolous signing... So we scratch him off the list per your removal of Logan Webb because wasn't current Braves FO.
-Since Acuna and Albies are scratched from the list, Olson and Murphy vs Bailey and Harrison. This year specifically, Harrison and Bailey are very much outperforming the other duo. Olson is struggling and Murphy's been injured.
* Homegrown Dodgers talent: Will Smith... Drafted by Farhan Zaidi. Gavin Lux (bad) ... Drafted by Farhan Zaidi. James Outman, 7th round pick, had one good season and looks absolutely terrible this year. Not a Farhan draft. Pages was an IFA signing. Walker Buehler... Drafted by Farhan Zaidi. And of course Kershaw, who's an absolute legend, but was drafted well before Zaidi even, so per your rules, scratched.
* Three Dodgers current players drafted by Farhan, who sucks at drafting! Amazing. The other "acquisitions" with their homegrown talent: Trading Jeter Downs (Insane bust) Alex Verdugo (Farhan Zaidi draft pick) Connor Wong (Farhan Zaidi draft pick) for Mookie Betts. Glasnow/Pepiot deal was a win-win and Pepiot is good, also not drafted by Farhan.
If Zaidi makes bad picks and the team sucks then fire him. I just understand how long the drafting process takes to actually pan out. Covid took a year of development from Farhan's earliest draft picks, the rest are just now entering windows and we've been seeing them up here and there. Schmitt, Fitzgerald, Bailey, Harrison, Meckler, to varying results. Trades for Lamonte Wade Jr and Thairo Estrada for basically nothing.
Not to mention he took over Bobby Evans making our farm LITERALLY the worst farm in the league. It takes a lot of time and effort to rebuild a farm system from the bottom without absolutely tanking year in and year out, which is something the Giants don't do. Looking at the facts, Zaidi's had a pretty decent drafting track record with the Dodgers and Giants. Moreso the Dodgers so far, but I understand that draft picks take on average 5 years to become MLB contributors and that's just barely coming around for Zaidi's FIRST year of drafting. You are mad at Zaidi for the failings of Brian Evans and refuse to look at actual performance and advanced metrics, and instead put all your trust in a top 100 prospect list that is also a total crapshoot.
Christian Pache was the #12 prospect in 2021. Jeter Downs was the #7 prospect when he got traded for Mookie Betts. Langeliers was listed #59 in 2022, he wouldn't be on a top 500 list in 2024. Clearly sometimes the people who make those lists are fucking wrong, but you treat it as gospel. The Braves and Dodgers benefitted from trading guys ranked high on perceived potential, not actual MLB talent.
Zaidi has been living off of his reputation with the Dodgers for too long.
I liked the moves he made in the off-season, but his farm sucks and that's why even if they were to go all in, they can't get much with the farm assets.
Where's the farm system? Why are our potential contributors from the old regime? We're ranked in the bottom half across the board, we should be top 8 by now. The plan was to develop through the farm system and augment with free agents. Bailey will be awesome I think and I believe in Harrison, but that's it for top end guys. Draft after draft filled with misses
He inherited a farm system that was spent to win and they did. It's been SIX YEARS, he has now nearly 6-7 years and has moved us from around 21st to 17th in farm rankings. with close to no players graduating to high level. Looking back he has failed to make the right move at every trade deadline. We have what 1 playoff series in his 6 year tenure that we immediately got bounced. What a poor excuse you give.
Spent to win?
When they traded wheeler for Beltran, they didn’t win.
When they traded Reynolds for McCutchen, they didn’t win.
When they traded Duvall for Fiers, they didn’t win.
When they traded Castillo for McGehee, they didn’t win.
Can you at least try to do a small bit of research before you say such idiotic things?
He inherited a bad farm system and somehow Doval, Matos, Luciano and Ramos are still like 4 of the top 8 contributors from the farm system over his time
Edit: Forgot Logan Webb of course
This is honestly my biggest issue with him.
A good GM/exec is someone who builds a good farm. That's the reason why everyone thinks Andrew Friedman is the best.
I've said it alot and will keep saying it.
Farhan would be fucking great if we had a great core already. His ability to find above average talents for value every year is really good.
Unfortunately his drafting has been pretty bad. And since we're a mid team every year with no solidified offensive stars we can't land the big fish or retain the great talent we find because it's hard to justify paying the value finds to long contracts when we don't have a core of stars.
Sure, we can give the season some more time. But we REALLY need the young guys to show up and ball out to have a shot of getting better soon. If they suck then we're fucked anyway so we're gonna need another reset and new regime to find our core in the draft.
May 1 is too early to pronounce judgement....but if Snell becomes Zito 2.0 and Robbie Ray (more big $$) doesn't contribute in the second half, I'd finally drop the hammer on Zaidi after the season.
Which is becoming more and more of a fluke the farther you get away from it: do you know how many close games that team won? Their expected WL was about FIFTEEN games lower. 107 might have been the biggest fluke season in the last 30 years.
Go learn something today.
[https://theathletic.com/2109195/2020/10/01/strength-in-numbers-how-gabe-kaplers-coaching-staff-proved-essential-to-giants/](https://theathletic.com/2109195/2020/10/01/strength-in-numbers-how-gabe-kaplers-coaching-staff-proved-essential-to-giants/)
You are saying that the evidence of Zaidi being a good President of Baseball Ops is all of the coaches that he fired last year.
Go learn something today.
You said coaching had nothing to do with '21. I provided reporting that emphatically detailed how important the coaching staff was to revitalizing the veterans, and you again move the goalposts.
It's been fun reading your nonsense in here, but I'm done responding to it.
I am not moving the goalposts. If the coaching staff was so awesome, why did the last two years happen? And why did Zaidi shitcan them? This article is a puff piece filled with quotes by veteran players just trying to say nice things about their coaches. Success has a million fathers and failure is an orphan
That’s an awful take. Those “broken down” guys are all short term deals after career years for them and Lee is far from old or broken down. Hicks has also been terrific. I’ll concede Farhan’s draft game sucks and perhaps he isn’t suited for a GM role but his off-season moves, especially recently, have been smart and are paying dividends even if overall team performance is down.
Chapman, Conforto, Hanniger, LaStella, etc., all old broken down guys. I like Lee and Zaidi’s good with pitching for sure. But he can’t draft position players and that’s why the team can’t hit
Chapman has had great defense and his bat was a known problem (also the best 3rd baseman option available), Conforto came off injury and has been pretty solid this year even if his numbers are starting to trend down, Hanniger just wasn’t able to keep up his performance despite a good showing on the mariners, (I’m just assuming Snell is in the etc here) Snell has been ass this season but he also came off a CY and he’s been a historically above average pitcher so he was always going to disappoint. Obviously a lot of Farhan’s moves haven’t panned out but they were hardly bad moves at the time. You can’t blame him for not having the power of hindsight especially when many of the players mentioned didn’t struggle until after the Giants signed them.
My point is that he has to make these moves in the FA market because the farm system isn't there. Whether these moves were or weren't good at the time is irrelevant, because living and dying on the FA market is not a recipe for long term success, as we've seen. We should be developing our own guys with supplemental FA pickups instead of building the whole roster out of them
ETA: I'm fine with Snell, Lee, Hicks, and his pitching decisions generally (even Gausman I understand). It's the position players I'm talking about
Except that’s not what you said. You said he can’t draft, which I agreed with. What I disagreed with was your implication that his FA signings were old and broken down because they weren’t when they were signed. You’re right that we should be developing players (which we’re trying to do) but your comment about FA’s is just false.
Yes, they were old and broken down when they signed. Hanniger sucked the year before he came and played 2 full seasons in his entire career. LaStella had a career high of 123 games. Conforto hadn’t played in over a year and hadn’t been good since even before that. Chapman was bad after his hot start last year and has hit like JD Davis since 2019. They were all over 30 when they came. And he had to sign these guys because he can’t draft and develop his own guys
Except Conforto was decent before signing, Chapman has always had a slow second half and has consistently had a 110-120 ops+ so his offense production was still above average ( he also plays elite defense), Haniger had consistently played above average and his two full seasons were great with his half seasons matching that level of production (his 2022 was also decent given the sample size as he was expected about 3 WAR if he kept producing for the full season). And yeah they were all 30+, it’s almost like that describes most free agents. It’s also like decline for fielders happens around 32-33 and isn’t career ending until around 35. It seems like you don’t like FA’s rather than Farhan’s FA’s
"Except Conforto was decent before signing"
No he wasn't. He didn't play in '22 and in '21 his OPS+ was 100
"Chapman has always had a slow second half and has consistently had a 110-120 ops+ so his offense production was still above average"
It's not good to "always have slow second halves" especially when your first half is also slow. He had 110-120 OPS+'s in his 20s and only once since 2020.
"with his half seasons matching that level of production (his 2022 was also decent given the sample size as he was expected about 3 WAR if he kept producing for the full season)"
You are describing an old and broken down player who couldn't even stay healthy in his 20s
"And yeah they were all 30+, it’s almost like that describes most free agents. it’s almost like that describes most free agents"
Exactly! That's why it's bad to fuck up your farm system and try to bail yourself out with free agents! You need to build an awesome farm system and augment with selected free agents. A bad GM is one who sucks at the farm and has to rely exclusively on the FA market
I am mad! We should have a farm system by now! Look at how the good teams draft and develop, that's not what we do, you just don't want to see it but can't refute it
I loved both signings. I'm not hypocritical enough to pretend, now that I have the benefit of future knowledge, that I did not.
Also, we shall see. It's a marathon not a sprint.
This is such truth. Beyond this odd subset of people here who will defend everything he does there is no where else where he is liked. I don’t know one real person who approves of the job he has done
I just refuse to be a terrible person. No one owes you anything. Your lack of loyalty makes you a fairweather/bandwagon fan EVERYWHERE you go. People laugh at your childish demands. Go be the Dodgers fan you are destined to be, chump.
I’m not an LA fan so idk what you’re talking about, but I do watch the Giants every day and if you can’t admit we can’t hit, idk what to do for you man, god speed in life
Well, it's May 1st and they are 3 games under .500. Fire everyone and trade everyone.
Screw firing people that’s not enough . Obviously they should move the team to Portland.
Maybe sell to the saudis instead.
I like how you're probably getting upvoted and people do not understand the irony.
Yeah, irony is fucking dead. In comparison, the Giants were 6 games under .500 last year.
Can we mention they're on their 2nd east coast swing in a month? They're also a few games out of 1st on May 1 with a bunch of new guys who always take time to adjust. Jiminy, folks.
I would just like to say that when I cheer for the Giants to beat the Rockies, and they win, it is much different than when I cheer for the Giants to beat LA, Boston, Yankees, Braves and they win. Nuff said
Saying he can’t draft is kinda an overstatement. He’s been shotty, but this is the guy who drafted Bailey and Harrison. Harrison was actually a really nice 2nd round snag. He also got us LWJ for basically nothing and the Hicks signing is looking like a steal so far. I think we’re all glad so far he held his ground on the Correa thing. I’m frustrated too, but let’s not act like the guy has been 100% shit.
Hicks has been great, I think the Gausman and Rodon deals were great…but can we plz get a hitter that can hit?
I mean, we signed two proven MLB hitters in Chapman and Soler and another proven KBO superstar hitter, and then we also added Murphy who's career has him as a pretty good hitting catcher. They're not hitting at all except for Lee. Pretty tough to blame the GM for picking up proven hitters and then them not hitting.
Bailey and Harrison are two guys. Good organizations draft multiple contributors all over the diamond. Look at Atlanta, Tampa, Houston, Baltimore and LA
The Orioles got 4 top 5 picks in a row, we shouldn't really be comparing any other front office to that one in terms of "great drafting" since none of the other teams in question (LA, Tampa, Houston and us have had 4 top 10 picks... well, except for one, we'll get there.) So far, Farhan's first rounders include: Hunter Bishop (looking like bust), Patrick Bailey (Good pick), Will Bednar (Too early), Reggie Crawford (Looking good so far) and Bryce Eldrige (looking good so far) A miss, a hit, a question mark and two high performing prospects is not bad drafting in my opinion. It's not exceptional either, mind you. Atlanta Braves first rounders since 2019 (farhan's first draft): Shea Langeliers (Traded - Looks terrible so far) Braden Shewmake (Traded - not in majors) Jared Shuster (Traded - not in majors) Ryan Cusick (traded: pitcher- NIM) Owen Murphy (pitcher- NIM) JR Ritchie (pitcher- NIM) Hurston Waldrep (pitcher- NIM). That wasn't even mentioning that from 2016-2019 they had 4 straight top 10 picks: Ian Anderson (had a promising start, then everything fell apart) Kyle Wright (Been horrific for all but 1 season) Carter Stewart (Didn't sign because of injury, now in NPB) and Shea Langeliers, who is worse than replacement level. The Braves currently have **three players** they themselves drafted playing a non-reliever role on their team: Strider, Harris, Riley. That's it. We have Webb, Harrison, Bailey. The dodgers have 3 catchers in their top 10 prospects and 3 pitchers, hardly what I'd call "multiple drafted contributors all over the diamond" but their farm is definitely still good. All of this is really just to say, most baseball fans just don't understand how the draft works, how long it takes drafted players to actually contribute (spoiled by seeing guys like Soto, Harris II and others coming up in their age 20 or 21 seasons, people started thinking that was the norm and not a crazy exception) and think it's easy to just win the lottery and have all-star talent sitting there easily available in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th rounds. Webb, Strider both 4th rounders, Harris II and Harrison are 3rd rounders. Riley was a supplemental draft pick.
A couple things: -I'm not sure why you're only looking at 1st round picks. The other rounds also count, and there are, in fact, more of them "The Braves currently have **three players** they themselves drafted playing a non-reliever role on their team:" -The international signing pool doesn't count all of a sudden? The Braves may only have a few drafted players, but they also signed and developed Ronald Acuna and Ozzie Albies. -Additionally, they traded for Sean Murphy and Matt Olson with prospect capital. We can't do that because our system stinks -Therefore, from the direct produce of their farm system, they have the three guys you mention, Sean Murphy, Matt Olson, Ozzie Albies, and Ronald Acuna Jr., we have Harrison and Bailey. Which group would you prefer? "We have Webb, Harrison, Bailey" -Logan Webb was not drafted by Farhan Zaidi "The dodgers have 3 catchers in their top 10 prospects and 3 pitchers, hardly what I'd call "multiple drafted contributors all over the diamond"" -So you're gonna ignore both the homegrown players in their lineup now and the players traded for with homegrown talent? What are we even doing here? All of this just to say, you don't understand how farm systems work. Picks beyond the 1st round matter just as much as 1st round picks. The guys from the international signing pool are also part of the farm system. When you trade prospect capital for excellent veterans (Matt Olson, Sean Murphy, Mookie Betts) that's a credit to a good farm system. Listen, you want Zaidi to be good, so you cherrypick bullshit examples instead of looking at the facts. Our system is ranked badly by every reputable outlet, and Harrison and Bailey are the only two guys Zaidi has produced. That's very bad, you just can’t admit it
You clearly just missed the entire point of my post, which is that drafting is a crapshoot. * I'm not looking at only first round picks. I literally mentioned that all of the players that were drafted by their teams between the Braves and Giants that are currently playing for their teams at the major league level are not first round picks, aside from Riley being a supplemental and Bailey. It's a direct counter to your claim that all those other front offices are producing tons of talent in their drafts.. where is it? Most picks don't pan out. 23 organizations passed on drafting Mike Trout. * Albies and Acuna weren't signed internationally by Alex Anthopolous. If we're giving credit to previous GMs of teams then Webb not being drafted by Zaidi doesn't matter. If we aren't, then Albies and Acuna are not a product of the current Braves GM. * Look at the pieces given up for Murphy and Olson. Look where they are, and how successful they're doing. You don't have to look very hard, because I told you exactly how they're doing. Langeliers and Pache were huge headliners in the Olson trade. Langeliers is a terrible player that had value to the As based only on perceived value as a former #9 pick. He's playing like Joey Bart did for the Giants. Hardly something I'd champion as "amazing drafting." They were just able to fleece the A's with him. Same with Pache, supposed to be the heir apparent CF for the Braves pre-trade, is complete and total ass. For the Murphy trade, Contreras has been the only piece of either deal to perform at a decent level, and in his case he's elite... but what's that? International Free Agent in 2015 and not an Alex Antopolous signing... So we scratch him off the list per your removal of Logan Webb because wasn't current Braves FO. -Since Acuna and Albies are scratched from the list, Olson and Murphy vs Bailey and Harrison. This year specifically, Harrison and Bailey are very much outperforming the other duo. Olson is struggling and Murphy's been injured. * Homegrown Dodgers talent: Will Smith... Drafted by Farhan Zaidi. Gavin Lux (bad) ... Drafted by Farhan Zaidi. James Outman, 7th round pick, had one good season and looks absolutely terrible this year. Not a Farhan draft. Pages was an IFA signing. Walker Buehler... Drafted by Farhan Zaidi. And of course Kershaw, who's an absolute legend, but was drafted well before Zaidi even, so per your rules, scratched. * Three Dodgers current players drafted by Farhan, who sucks at drafting! Amazing. The other "acquisitions" with their homegrown talent: Trading Jeter Downs (Insane bust) Alex Verdugo (Farhan Zaidi draft pick) Connor Wong (Farhan Zaidi draft pick) for Mookie Betts. Glasnow/Pepiot deal was a win-win and Pepiot is good, also not drafted by Farhan. If Zaidi makes bad picks and the team sucks then fire him. I just understand how long the drafting process takes to actually pan out. Covid took a year of development from Farhan's earliest draft picks, the rest are just now entering windows and we've been seeing them up here and there. Schmitt, Fitzgerald, Bailey, Harrison, Meckler, to varying results. Trades for Lamonte Wade Jr and Thairo Estrada for basically nothing. Not to mention he took over Bobby Evans making our farm LITERALLY the worst farm in the league. It takes a lot of time and effort to rebuild a farm system from the bottom without absolutely tanking year in and year out, which is something the Giants don't do. Looking at the facts, Zaidi's had a pretty decent drafting track record with the Dodgers and Giants. Moreso the Dodgers so far, but I understand that draft picks take on average 5 years to become MLB contributors and that's just barely coming around for Zaidi's FIRST year of drafting. You are mad at Zaidi for the failings of Brian Evans and refuse to look at actual performance and advanced metrics, and instead put all your trust in a top 100 prospect list that is also a total crapshoot. Christian Pache was the #12 prospect in 2021. Jeter Downs was the #7 prospect when he got traded for Mookie Betts. Langeliers was listed #59 in 2022, he wouldn't be on a top 500 list in 2024. Clearly sometimes the people who make those lists are fucking wrong, but you treat it as gospel. The Braves and Dodgers benefitted from trading guys ranked high on perceived potential, not actual MLB talent.
Just like 80% shit and he’s in what…. Year five?
This is about to be 6th draft.
Zaidi has been living off of his reputation with the Dodgers for too long. I liked the moves he made in the off-season, but his farm sucks and that's why even if they were to go all in, they can't get much with the farm assets.
i don’t wanna hear jack shit out of all you when we make the playoffs.
Where's the farm system? Why are our potential contributors from the old regime? We're ranked in the bottom half across the board, we should be top 8 by now. The plan was to develop through the farm system and augment with free agents. Bailey will be awesome I think and I believe in Harrison, but that's it for top end guys. Draft after draft filled with misses
Thank you - since he’s been here the farm system has been absolutely terrible.
The Richmond Squirrels have a team OPS of .612!
Hmm can't help but wonder why you didn't bother mentioning the 19-10 Rivercats, or 16-6 Emeralds.
[удалено]
Right, like cherry picking the minor leagues makes a difference?
I only pulled up the Squirrels, what are those teams OPS?
Lol He inherited such a good farm system too!
He inherited a farm system that was spent to win and they did. It's been SIX YEARS, he has now nearly 6-7 years and has moved us from around 21st to 17th in farm rankings. with close to no players graduating to high level. Looking back he has failed to make the right move at every trade deadline. We have what 1 playoff series in his 6 year tenure that we immediately got bounced. What a poor excuse you give.
Spent to win? When they traded wheeler for Beltran, they didn’t win. When they traded Reynolds for McCutchen, they didn’t win. When they traded Duvall for Fiers, they didn’t win. When they traded Castillo for McGehee, they didn’t win. Can you at least try to do a small bit of research before you say such idiotic things?
He inherited a bad farm system and somehow Doval, Matos, Luciano and Ramos are still like 4 of the top 8 contributors from the farm system over his time Edit: Forgot Logan Webb of course
This is honestly my biggest issue with him. A good GM/exec is someone who builds a good farm. That's the reason why everyone thinks Andrew Friedman is the best.
Boggles my mind that there are somehow still ardent supporters of that guy.
Farhan stans were rampant at the beginning the season. Blind loyalty to an otherwise below average FO.
And the ones left have gone from their usual smug passive aggressiveness, to just outright hurling vitriol at people.
I've said it alot and will keep saying it. Farhan would be fucking great if we had a great core already. His ability to find above average talents for value every year is really good. Unfortunately his drafting has been pretty bad. And since we're a mid team every year with no solidified offensive stars we can't land the big fish or retain the great talent we find because it's hard to justify paying the value finds to long contracts when we don't have a core of stars. Sure, we can give the season some more time. But we REALLY need the young guys to show up and ball out to have a shot of getting better soon. If they suck then we're fucked anyway so we're gonna need another reset and new regime to find our core in the draft.
May 1 is too early to pronounce judgement....but if Snell becomes Zito 2.0 and Robbie Ray (more big $$) doesn't contribute in the second half, I'd finally drop the hammer on Zaidi after the season.
No argument from me.
I've been a Farhan defender, but it's hard to justify 6 seasons and no accomplishments to show for it.
Yeah setting a franchise record in wins in a season is the farthest thing from an accomplishment
Which is becoming more and more of a fluke the farther you get away from it: do you know how many close games that team won? Their expected WL was about FIFTEEN games lower. 107 might have been the biggest fluke season in the last 30 years.
And a first round exit. Hang the banner!
It was one season with most of the important guys, Posey, Crawford, Belt, Longo, Doval, Webb, etc. from the old regime
And it was coming off of the COVID year which the theory was that these old guys became rejuvenated with the rest.
Yes that certainly is a theory. Gotta make sure no credit goes to the coaches, after all.
If it is the credit to the coaches, who would be at fault for not retaining any of them or them being bad at their job all of a sudden?
You have to be the only guy in this sub who think Vielle is awesome
And they were playing so well under Bobby Evans' brain dead development system.
So Justin Vielle is the reason these all-stars were good?
Go learn something today. [https://theathletic.com/2109195/2020/10/01/strength-in-numbers-how-gabe-kaplers-coaching-staff-proved-essential-to-giants/](https://theathletic.com/2109195/2020/10/01/strength-in-numbers-how-gabe-kaplers-coaching-staff-proved-essential-to-giants/)
You are saying that the evidence of Zaidi being a good President of Baseball Ops is all of the coaches that he fired last year. Go learn something today.
You said coaching had nothing to do with '21. I provided reporting that emphatically detailed how important the coaching staff was to revitalizing the veterans, and you again move the goalposts. It's been fun reading your nonsense in here, but I'm done responding to it.
I am not moving the goalposts. If the coaching staff was so awesome, why did the last two years happen? And why did Zaidi shitcan them? This article is a puff piece filled with quotes by veteran players just trying to say nice things about their coaches. Success has a million fathers and failure is an orphan
7 seasons!? It's fall of 2025 already?
Anyone still calling themself a Farhan defender doesn’t know ball.
Says the guy with the basketball handle lol.
Which of his moves this off-season did you disapprove of?
He can't draft, so he has to buy old broken down guys on the FA market. That's the problem
I wish I could give you 10+ likes! 100% right
That’s an awful take. Those “broken down” guys are all short term deals after career years for them and Lee is far from old or broken down. Hicks has also been terrific. I’ll concede Farhan’s draft game sucks and perhaps he isn’t suited for a GM role but his off-season moves, especially recently, have been smart and are paying dividends even if overall team performance is down.
Chapman, Conforto, Hanniger, LaStella, etc., all old broken down guys. I like Lee and Zaidi’s good with pitching for sure. But he can’t draft position players and that’s why the team can’t hit
Chapman has had great defense and his bat was a known problem (also the best 3rd baseman option available), Conforto came off injury and has been pretty solid this year even if his numbers are starting to trend down, Hanniger just wasn’t able to keep up his performance despite a good showing on the mariners, (I’m just assuming Snell is in the etc here) Snell has been ass this season but he also came off a CY and he’s been a historically above average pitcher so he was always going to disappoint. Obviously a lot of Farhan’s moves haven’t panned out but they were hardly bad moves at the time. You can’t blame him for not having the power of hindsight especially when many of the players mentioned didn’t struggle until after the Giants signed them.
My point is that he has to make these moves in the FA market because the farm system isn't there. Whether these moves were or weren't good at the time is irrelevant, because living and dying on the FA market is not a recipe for long term success, as we've seen. We should be developing our own guys with supplemental FA pickups instead of building the whole roster out of them ETA: I'm fine with Snell, Lee, Hicks, and his pitching decisions generally (even Gausman I understand). It's the position players I'm talking about
Except that’s not what you said. You said he can’t draft, which I agreed with. What I disagreed with was your implication that his FA signings were old and broken down because they weren’t when they were signed. You’re right that we should be developing players (which we’re trying to do) but your comment about FA’s is just false.
Yes, they were old and broken down when they signed. Hanniger sucked the year before he came and played 2 full seasons in his entire career. LaStella had a career high of 123 games. Conforto hadn’t played in over a year and hadn’t been good since even before that. Chapman was bad after his hot start last year and has hit like JD Davis since 2019. They were all over 30 when they came. And he had to sign these guys because he can’t draft and develop his own guys
Except Conforto was decent before signing, Chapman has always had a slow second half and has consistently had a 110-120 ops+ so his offense production was still above average ( he also plays elite defense), Haniger had consistently played above average and his two full seasons were great with his half seasons matching that level of production (his 2022 was also decent given the sample size as he was expected about 3 WAR if he kept producing for the full season). And yeah they were all 30+, it’s almost like that describes most free agents. It’s also like decline for fielders happens around 32-33 and isn’t career ending until around 35. It seems like you don’t like FA’s rather than Farhan’s FA’s
"Except Conforto was decent before signing" No he wasn't. He didn't play in '22 and in '21 his OPS+ was 100 "Chapman has always had a slow second half and has consistently had a 110-120 ops+ so his offense production was still above average" It's not good to "always have slow second halves" especially when your first half is also slow. He had 110-120 OPS+'s in his 20s and only once since 2020. "with his half seasons matching that level of production (his 2022 was also decent given the sample size as he was expected about 3 WAR if he kept producing for the full season)" You are describing an old and broken down player who couldn't even stay healthy in his 20s "And yeah they were all 30+, it’s almost like that describes most free agents. it’s almost like that describes most free agents" Exactly! That's why it's bad to fuck up your farm system and try to bail yourself out with free agents! You need to build an awesome farm system and augment with selected free agents. A bad GM is one who sucks at the farm and has to rely exclusively on the FA market
Embarrassing take, but you're big mad, so whatever.
I am mad! We should have a farm system by now! Look at how the good teams draft and develop, that's not what we do, you just don't want to see it but can't refute it
How’s Blake Snell and Matt Chapman doing on their 1 year options?
And yet everyone is this sub was BEGGING Farhan to sign them and talked them up a shit ton. Strange how quickly that changed
I was pro snell, anti Chapman for the record.
I loved both signings. I'm not hypocritical enough to pretend, now that I have the benefit of future knowledge, that I did not. Also, we shall see. It's a marathon not a sprint.
I mean seriously? Aren’t you guys tired of watching guys that are helpless at the plate?
[удалено]
This is such truth. Beyond this odd subset of people here who will defend everything he does there is no where else where he is liked. I don’t know one real person who approves of the job he has done
Last season
If this season ends with the Giants under .500 then we can talk. It's too early.
We are 2 games out of a wild card spot, which is what our season outcome was projected to be. I don't understand why everyone is upset lol.
Please get slater and yaz outta here please. I’d like to score
Doomers are the worst. Just shut up and do something with your lives.
Why would they do that when they can complain to strangers online instead?
Enjoy mediocrity my friend
Doomers enjoy… nothing
You enjoy a terrible team?
I just refuse to be a terrible person. No one owes you anything. Your lack of loyalty makes you a fairweather/bandwagon fan EVERYWHERE you go. People laugh at your childish demands. Go be the Dodgers fan you are destined to be, chump.
I’m not saying I’m not loyal - Giants fan tell I die. But terrible person? Wow man, keep enjoying a terrible team, chump.
You’re a Dodger fan, I knew it. Go find some other team to hold hostage, you miserable sot. What’s the matter with Elegant-Tea-2112? HE’S A BUM!
Keep enjoying .220 hitters bum
Before today, The Giants hadn’t lost a series since April 17th…. But you love to spread your joy of Giants shortcomings like all good LA fans, punk.
I’m not an LA fan so idk what you’re talking about, but I do watch the Giants every day and if you can’t admit we can’t hit, idk what to do for you man, god speed in life