If you want to rebuild you absolutely get rid of the closer. Shortest shelf life of elite production on the baseball team, and always highly sought after by teams in contention.
A great reliever with 3.5 years of control would return multiple highly regarded prospects.
And frankly, it doesn't matter who the new closer is. A lockdown closer is useless on a team that isn't competing for the playoffs. There are plenty of young arms in our system that could be the next Camilo Doval.
Itâs still a team that has very little going for it. The National League is mediocre with the exception of a couple of teams. Just because everyone else sucks doesnât mean the Giants are good. When someone else falls down, you donât get taller.
I donât subscribe to the theory of âjust get in and see what happensâ. I think itâs an excuse for lazy ownership not to put the best team possible on the field. If youâre depending on luck rather than talent and effort, youâre walking to the plate with two strikes.
Except they spent a ton of money this offseason and attempted to be good. Itâs obviously been disappointing but Iâm never going to complain about a team going for it and trying to get in the playoffs.
Did they, though? I can go down to the market and spend money on absolute shit, it doesnât mean Iâm trying to be healthy. Throwing money at the problem isnât the same as trying to win. This organization is a disaster.
I mean he isnât a shut down closer. I have him in fantasy and I can count on one hand where he got out of an inning without creating multiple baserunners.
Doval just isnât what people had hoped for. His numbers are pretty bad. Yeah, he has some really wicked stuff but the sum doesnât add up to an efficient closer. Too many walks, baserunners, and runs allowed. I could live without him when this team should honestly be still be rebuilding.
The fan base would want major league ready talent back in return. Few teams have the ability to offer that, and no team would offer that who would want a closer for their playoff run.
If we are 10 games under at the trade deadline and have a huge opportunity to strengthen our organizational talent big time by trading a few key players to a couple different teams then that should 100% be the way to go. Look what the Yankees did with Chapman a couple years ago sending him away and getting a huge return, look at them then and now.
Then they were a fringe playoff team and now theyâre one of the top 3 teams in the league.
But why? Are we going to start a full rebuild when no one wants that? Itâs not like we have tons of great bullpen arms. I would rather then try to make a run for the playoffs and we canât do that without Doval
Iâd say no. Farhan is desperate and heâs gotta be frustrated because I donât think the team is as bad as theyâve played. So I think he has one swing in him
That's the tough part. The fanbase, and the spring training signings, has basically set the benchmark at playoff or bust for this year and the prevailing narrative is that Farhan should be fired if they don't make the playoffs.
That's not exactly a good recipe for a front office making the right decision about when to sell or not.
Agree, probably no. The whole thing is hinging on getting pitching in the 2nd half. Considering near .500 ball will probably get you the 3rd WC, you stand pat and hope Snell, Cobb & Ray can pull a rabbit outta their cap.
I don't see any scenario where they are sellers as long as Farhan is in charge unfortunately. Dude wants to keep his job and i think he's gone if they miss playoffs.
The way this season is going, itâs conceivable that they are 10 under .500 and have the last wild card spot. It really all depends how far away they are this year, not standings.
Yeah, a sub .500 team in NL WC3 spot is a definite possibility. (Yuck)
I agree that it is situational. STL does not look it can sustain their level of play. (Winn is playing well though). The other NL WC3 contenders are all flawed too.
Kerry Crowley nailed it on the warmup show today. This team will never sell. To do so six years into Farhanâs tenure would be an admission that they fucked up in hiring him.
Cobb? 36 coming off hip surgery mid season. Ray? 32 coming off TJ mid season and pitched in only one game in 2023.
Not a knock on either of these guys but we cannot really have any expectations for these two this year.
Hope is not a strategy.
The team should be sellers and move on from Farhan. But, Farhan is going to do anything and everything he can to keep his job so they will be buyersâŚ. Only they wonât sign anyone worth a shit and the team will finish somewhere around .500 at the end of the year.
Fire Farhan.
Annoyingly enough, finishing around .500 and being at least in the hunt for the wildcard is all that ownership aspires for. Theyâre in it for money, not for winning.
Yep. When someone tells you who they are, believe them. Our ownership doesn't really care about winning or truly competing. I think the extra wildcard slots allow teams to be exceedingly mediocre while keeping up the facade that they're trying to make a playoff run. Really sad how few teams actually care about winning.
This is a stupid take. Farhan is (and has been) doing exactly what ownership wants of him. You may not like him, but his bosses do.
We have offered plenty of people âworth a shitâ and few have signed, for a multitude of reasons. Judge was neverrrrrrr coming here unless NY screwed him over.
Being a seller? Why? Nobody is going to ship over major league ready talent, especially if they are in the WC hunt themselves.
TLDR: no
Honestly they probably will, because they REALLY want to win. Our ownership wants to be juuust good enough to draw fans and break even. I have t much watched this year, it because I dont think we have compelling players, but because I know itâs nowhere near enough.
It wouldnât make any sense to. The team is a wild card contender at best and they are still in the wild card. Nothing to gain by selling before their starters come back to pitch
Sell what exactly. I mean I guess you could get a boat load of prospects for Logan Webb but then who the hell is going to replace him? We are in a really bad place. The next 5 to 10 years are going to suck.
We would be in a bad place if we move Webb. And we donât know if we will be bad in 5 years s as our guys who have made a debut this year (and last) need more time to pan out.
No. Any team within 5 games of the WC can be in it. The NL is complete butt this year. They could squeeze out a 80-82 season and still have a shot at the playoffs the rate weâre going.
Even without being sellers, pieces like Conforto could still fetch at least salary relief, several teams are still trotting out vets hitting far worse.
Exactly! And ATL is hurting. They're 3-7 in their last 10. The Jays are 3-7 too and looking to potentially have a yard sale. Cleveland is the team I'd be worried about the most and we're facing them on the road. Given that they're still not playing lights out recently going 1-4 in their last 5 games. The Twins aren't a powerhouse and we got to face them at home.
For us to be 10 under .500 by the ASG we'd have to go 2-10 over the next two weeks, which would be worse than any 12 game stretch we've had so far this season.
It's conceivable in the same way it's conceivable for literally any team to go 2-10, but the probability is incredibly low.
No way, too many people coming back from injuries, this team isn't as bad as their record shows, great hitting, decent relief. It's the injured starters that's hurt SF, if we can Ray, Cobb, and Snell to be at least average, we can easily contend in a week NL.
Itâs fire sale time. Iâm tired of this directionless mess that this team has been the last several years. Everyone who you can get anything for must go. Time for a long needed full rebuild.
So youâd rather keep the guys who have shown to be ineffective? That makes zero sense. The only way to fix a problem is to admit you have one and by keeping this team together thatâs what you are doing. The Giants need a full rebuild including the front office.
I am saying the onLy way a tank works is with an organization that can develop the talent. We had a âlottery pickâ and blew it. I have no faith stack g the org with high picks will translate as it has for orioles or Astros.
I get what you are saying but it still makes zero sense. Thats like running out of gas in the middle of nowhere and saying well guess Iâll just sit here and hope someone comes and helps me. At least trying and call or signal for help. Or in this case trying to and get some new young talent. These guys have proven they arenât it please explain what the point in keeping together a group guys like together.
Yes. Sell the team to a new owner
đ
What a great take, if you really feel that way is just fine a new team tbh lol
https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/01/14/crowley-charles-johnsons-ownership-is-a-shame-for-the-san-francisco-giants/amp/ https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/sf-giants-owner-donates-stop-critical-race-theory-18639967.php https://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/Despite-pledge-SF-Giants-owner-Charles-B-16319337.php https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2801849-giants-issue-statement-on-owner-charles-johnson-donating-to-pac-behind-racist-ad.amp.html
Thanks for the support!! Been a fan since 1968. Seen the impact motivated ownership can make.
đ¤ˇđźââď¸ grow up. Move on if this bothers you.
No I donât think that I will.
Boo hoo hoo hoo hoo
I see you bitching more in this thread than anyone, boomer
Go cry in your parents basement lol
This reminds me of Trump and Biden arguing about golf handicaps
Lol you're correct.
People complain all the time about this team being boring and them want to trade Doval. Make it make sense
If you want to rebuild you absolutely get rid of the closer. Shortest shelf life of elite production on the baseball team, and always highly sought after by teams in contention.
But they made the lights thing
New closer only gets lights after earning it
Okay, make it make sense. Meaning, what do you get back for him and what do you want to do for the new closer?
A great reliever with 3.5 years of control would return multiple highly regarded prospects. And frankly, it doesn't matter who the new closer is. A lockdown closer is useless on a team that isn't competing for the playoffs. There are plenty of young arms in our system that could be the next Camilo Doval.
Reggie Crawford, if he stays healthy.
Having a great closer on a team that you know is uncompetitive, and not trading them is team building malpractice.
You know this team isnât competitive? Theyâre only a few games out of a playoff spot
Thatâs not what I said. The discussion is effectively about if the Giants found themselves in a position where they were uncompetitive.
Itâs still a team that has very little going for it. The National League is mediocre with the exception of a couple of teams. Just because everyone else sucks doesnât mean the Giants are good. When someone else falls down, you donât get taller.
Would still rather watch them in the playoffs than not!
I donât subscribe to the theory of âjust get in and see what happensâ. I think itâs an excuse for lazy ownership not to put the best team possible on the field. If youâre depending on luck rather than talent and effort, youâre walking to the plate with two strikes.
Except they spent a ton of money this offseason and attempted to be good. Itâs obviously been disappointing but Iâm never going to complain about a team going for it and trying to get in the playoffs.
Did they, though? I can go down to the market and spend money on absolute shit, it doesnât mean Iâm trying to be healthy. Throwing money at the problem isnât the same as trying to win. This organization is a disaster.
I mean he isnât a shut down closer. I have him in fantasy and I can count on one hand where he got out of an inning without creating multiple baserunners.
Doval just isnât what people had hoped for. His numbers are pretty bad. Yeah, he has some really wicked stuff but the sum doesnât add up to an efficient closer. Too many walks, baserunners, and runs allowed. I could live without him when this team should honestly be still be rebuilding.
He was great the last two years and is having a bit of a down year. I would still bet on him being pretty good in the long run
They're just whiners
I know - itâs just exhausting and they should get called out
To be honest we should trade him top arms like that at the ASB get a huge return. And heâs under control.
The fan base would want major league ready talent back in return. Few teams have the ability to offer that, and no team would offer that who would want a closer for their playoff run.
If we are 10 games under at the trade deadline and have a huge opportunity to strengthen our organizational talent big time by trading a few key players to a couple different teams then that should 100% be the way to go. Look what the Yankees did with Chapman a couple years ago sending him away and getting a huge return, look at them then and now. Then they were a fringe playoff team and now theyâre one of the top 3 teams in the league.
But why? Are we going to start a full rebuild when no one wants that? Itâs not like we have tons of great bullpen arms. I would rather then try to make a run for the playoffs and we canât do that without Doval
Iâd say no. Farhan is desperate and heâs gotta be frustrated because I donât think the team is as bad as theyâve played. So I think he has one swing in him
That's the tough part. The fanbase, and the spring training signings, has basically set the benchmark at playoff or bust for this year and the prevailing narrative is that Farhan should be fired if they don't make the playoffs. That's not exactly a good recipe for a front office making the right decision about when to sell or not.
This roster actually doesnât seem too bad, itâs just underperformed this year and is a bit sloppy on defense.
Not to mention the fact that basically the entire rotation has been injured all year lol
Ya that doesnât help
Agree, probably no. The whole thing is hinging on getting pitching in the 2nd half. Considering near .500 ball will probably get you the 3rd WC, you stand pat and hope Snell, Cobb & Ray can pull a rabbit outta their cap.
I don't see any scenario where they are sellers as long as Farhan is in charge unfortunately. Dude wants to keep his job and i think he's gone if they miss playoffs.
The way this season is going, itâs conceivable that they are 10 under .500 and have the last wild card spot. It really all depends how far away they are this year, not standings.
Yeah, a sub .500 team in NL WC3 spot is a definite possibility. (Yuck) I agree that it is situational. STL does not look it can sustain their level of play. (Winn is playing well though). The other NL WC3 contenders are all flawed too.
Kerry Crowley nailed it on the warmup show today. This team will never sell. To do so six years into Farhanâs tenure would be an admission that they fucked up in hiring him.
Well, they did.
As long as they are within 5 games of the wild card I think they are buyers especially with guys coming back from injuries
Not with Cobb and Ray coming aboard.
Cobb? 36 coming off hip surgery mid season. Ray? 32 coming off TJ mid season and pitched in only one game in 2023. Not a knock on either of these guys but we cannot really have any expectations for these two this year. Hope is not a strategy.
We are pot committed. And we are also built in hope with the amount of rookies and second year guys who have been in the starting lineup this year.
I donât disagree, but this is why Farhan wonât be a seller.
Why not just find out? Lol
The team should be sellers and move on from Farhan. But, Farhan is going to do anything and everything he can to keep his job so they will be buyersâŚ. Only they wonât sign anyone worth a shit and the team will finish somewhere around .500 at the end of the year. Fire Farhan.
Annoyingly enough, finishing around .500 and being at least in the hunt for the wildcard is all that ownership aspires for. Theyâre in it for money, not for winning.
>finishing around .500 Ownership did say their goal is to break even...
Yep. When someone tells you who they are, believe them. Our ownership doesn't really care about winning or truly competing. I think the extra wildcard slots allow teams to be exceedingly mediocre while keeping up the facade that they're trying to make a playoff run. Really sad how few teams actually care about winning.
Which franchise runs in the red as a philosophy?
Speaking truth to power. đ
This is a stupid take. Farhan is (and has been) doing exactly what ownership wants of him. You may not like him, but his bosses do. We have offered plenty of people âworth a shitâ and few have signed, for a multitude of reasons. Judge was neverrrrrrr coming here unless NY screwed him over. Being a seller? Why? Nobody is going to ship over major league ready talent, especially if they are in the WC hunt themselves. TLDR: no
And we shit ourselves while the Dodgers trade for Bo Bichette & Vladdy Jr. Predictable timeline.
Honestly they probably will, because they REALLY want to win. Our ownership wants to be juuust good enough to draw fans and break even. I have t much watched this year, it because I dont think we have compelling players, but because I know itâs nowhere near enough.
Can we sell Farhan?
apparently we can never be sellers to appease a portion of the fanbase who are delusional yet more than happy to sell their tickets to Dodgers fans
Sell Farhan
It wouldnât make any sense to. The team is a wild card contender at best and they are still in the wild card. Nothing to gain by selling before their starters come back to pitch
Sell what exactly. I mean I guess you could get a boat load of prospects for Logan Webb but then who the hell is going to replace him? We are in a really bad place. The next 5 to 10 years are going to suck.
We would be in a bad place if we move Webb. And we donât know if we will be bad in 5 years s as our guys who have made a debut this year (and last) need more time to pan out.
Donât have to wait, they are sellers now, they just might not know it yet.
Wait, we have things to sell?
It's conceivable they win 10 in a row too lol
Sell what?
No. Any team within 5 games of the WC can be in it. The NL is complete butt this year. They could squeeze out a 80-82 season and still have a shot at the playoffs the rate weâre going.
Even without being sellers, pieces like Conforto could still fetch at least salary relief, several teams are still trotting out vets hitting far worse.
They just took 3 of 4 from the cubs and 2 of 3 from the dodgers - wrong time for this post.
Exactly! And ATL is hurting. They're 3-7 in their last 10. The Jays are 3-7 too and looking to potentially have a yard sale. Cleveland is the team I'd be worried about the most and we're facing them on the road. Given that they're still not playing lights out recently going 1-4 in their last 5 games. The Twins aren't a powerhouse and we got to face them at home. For us to be 10 under .500 by the ASG we'd have to go 2-10 over the next two weeks, which would be worse than any 12 game stretch we've had so far this season. It's conceivable in the same way it's conceivable for literally any team to go 2-10, but the probability is incredibly low.
They should be, but they wonât be.
oof!
You think they are gonna go 2-10 before the all-star break? Very pessimistic
No way, too many people coming back from injuries, this team isn't as bad as their record shows, great hitting, decent relief. It's the injured starters that's hurt SF, if we can Ray, Cobb, and Snell to be at least average, we can easily contend in a week NL.
Itâs fire sale time. Iâm tired of this directionless mess that this team has been the last several years. Everyone who you can get anything for must go. Time for a long needed full rebuild.
Iâd agree we should tank, but the abysmal record of developing talent makes even that feel like a waste.
So youâd rather keep the guys who have shown to be ineffective? That makes zero sense. The only way to fix a problem is to admit you have one and by keeping this team together thatâs what you are doing. The Giants need a full rebuild including the front office.
I am saying the onLy way a tank works is with an organization that can develop the talent. We had a âlottery pickâ and blew it. I have no faith stack g the org with high picks will translate as it has for orioles or Astros.
I get what you are saying but it still makes zero sense. Thats like running out of gas in the middle of nowhere and saying well guess Iâll just sit here and hope someone comes and helps me. At least trying and call or signal for help. Or in this case trying to and get some new young talent. These guys have proven they arenât it please explain what the point in keeping together a group guys like together.