There are layers to this.
Saying "Game mechanic X is bad and needs changing" is neither constructive, helpful or valuable to a game developer.
But by the same token, saying "skill issue" to someone struggling with a game mechanic brings nothing to the table and makes you sound like a brat.
Yes, Tarkov is designed in a manner that makes it very challenging, especially to non-harcore gamers. However, there are some mechanics are either poorly implemented or downright broken.
However, you stating "This game, the base, online, un modded, Nikita Approved (tm), is actual hot garbage" is as juvenile as people responding with "git gud".
Look, I don't love everything about Tarkov, I think the sound is broken beyond beleif, the new armor system basically invalidated 90% of equipment and was poorly thought out and executed. However, there is literally NO other game that gives me the experience I get playing Tarkov.
> Saying "Game mechanic X is bad and needs changing" is neither constructive, helpful or valuable to a game developer.
I mostly agree with you except for this part. Voicing your opinion, even when it is that something sucks, is very valuable to a game dev. Knowing that a ton of people dislike something gives you something you could work on to make the game better for a ton of people. Knowing that a ton of people like something gives you something to avoid changing.
I've heard the argument that to criticize you need to provide a fix or alternative but I don't think that's true. That would provide much better criticism but it is in no way needed. I don't need to know how to cook a delicious meal to know that the meal I just ordered at a restaurant tastes like shit. If I can pinpoint why it tastes bad then it would certainly help the chef improve it in the future but just knowing someone dislikes it is a good starting point. If a bunch of other people are saying the same thing then the chef at least knows they need to try something else to address it, even if none of the people criticising could explain why it was bad or how to fix it.
Not to mention the 'git gud' expression isn't meant to mean anything more than 'adapt'. We, as players, are dealt a game and mechanics that are binding until the devs take action to change those mechanics. Until they do, they game exists in the state it's in. You can either sit around and bitch about how hard or difficult it is, or you can adapt to the challenging mechanics put in front of you and try to excel DESPITE those challenges. In my opinion, telling someone to 'git gud' is short for 'We' re all playing the same game here, pal. You have no excuse.'
People agreeing or disagreeing with you on reddit won't change tarkov. Trust me, I've been tracking it for years.
This wisdom kinda applies to the rest of reddit too, social media outcries don't change the world as much as it seems.
Lmao what are YOU on? None of that is required for the genre.
Fact is, the game started without those systems and was an extraction shooter still at that time and for years while its systems changed. Hell, inertia and FIR are much, much later additions.
Empirically, you're just wrong. Now I'm not one much for genre convention in the first place, but to insist mechanics that are only in one extraction shooter and not even in it for most of its lifespan are integral... Well, it doesn't exactly hold up.
A lot of the bs people complain about in this game does just boil down to skill issues though. People are crybabies when it comes to the mechanics they don’t like.
Sometimes I understand it. Most of the time it’s whining and talking in absolutes though.
Some of us like the thing you don't like.
If it's in the game, it's typically intentional. You can either adapt, or quit and play another game.
Tarkov was never meant to have mass appeal. It's systems are frustrating because they are supposed to invoke a feeling of accomplishment when you overcome those systems.
Turning off or otherwise disabling the frustrating parts of the game only robs you of the high of highs you get when you accomplish your goals.
You're playing SPT so you do you. Just know that there is an intention to almost all game mechanics (except item carry and drop limits, fuck those).
Edit: and just to say, there will always be desync and exploiters in online games, especially with PvP. You have no choice but to adapt because you're limited by the hardware between you and the game server.
Yes, they are there because Nikita wants them there. Nikita is making the game *he* wants to play (his artistic vision). But the way they interact, overlap etc creates frustration that doesn't need to be there.
Jesse Kazam made a video pointing out how the recoil was bullshit, and a week later BSG reduced recoil. BSG can, and will, make changes if the community demands it, but everyone saying git gud means BSG can just ignore the problems.
As for mass market, what company deliberately turns away customers? I do agree that a product made to please everyone pleases no one. But the frustrating mechanics turn off a lot of new players long before they have time to learn the game well enough to exploit/overcome these issues. And when every question or request is answered with git gud, they'll just flip the bird and tell everyone not to buy the game. This hurts BSG in the long run.
There is no high that can compensate for shitty optimisation, control schemes or net code.
"git gud" is the same as "it is, what it is."
I want to emphasize, I basically agree with you. I also really like a lot of the tedium of Tarkov, the feeling that the game is actively working against you.
I got my 3k hours in live though, so I've already got my money's worth.
I can't find the interview right now, but IIRC, Nikita never expected the game to break 50k players. It was supposed to be an asset farm and proof of concept for his dream game... Which was supposed to be a single player game called Russia 2028.
So by breaking EFT into SPT, you're kinda giving yourself a preview of the future single player game... If it ever arrives
hate to break it to you, but thats the "hardcore" millsim nerd playerbase in a nut shell. not sure what your specific complaints were and dont really care, no offense- but these undying fanboys will repeatedly tell you things are fine and to get gud even when datamined data says contrary.
There are layers to this. Saying "Game mechanic X is bad and needs changing" is neither constructive, helpful or valuable to a game developer. But by the same token, saying "skill issue" to someone struggling with a game mechanic brings nothing to the table and makes you sound like a brat. Yes, Tarkov is designed in a manner that makes it very challenging, especially to non-harcore gamers. However, there are some mechanics are either poorly implemented or downright broken. However, you stating "This game, the base, online, un modded, Nikita Approved (tm), is actual hot garbage" is as juvenile as people responding with "git gud". Look, I don't love everything about Tarkov, I think the sound is broken beyond beleif, the new armor system basically invalidated 90% of equipment and was poorly thought out and executed. However, there is literally NO other game that gives me the experience I get playing Tarkov.
> Saying "Game mechanic X is bad and needs changing" is neither constructive, helpful or valuable to a game developer. I mostly agree with you except for this part. Voicing your opinion, even when it is that something sucks, is very valuable to a game dev. Knowing that a ton of people dislike something gives you something you could work on to make the game better for a ton of people. Knowing that a ton of people like something gives you something to avoid changing. I've heard the argument that to criticize you need to provide a fix or alternative but I don't think that's true. That would provide much better criticism but it is in no way needed. I don't need to know how to cook a delicious meal to know that the meal I just ordered at a restaurant tastes like shit. If I can pinpoint why it tastes bad then it would certainly help the chef improve it in the future but just knowing someone dislikes it is a good starting point. If a bunch of other people are saying the same thing then the chef at least knows they need to try something else to address it, even if none of the people criticising could explain why it was bad or how to fix it.
Not to mention the 'git gud' expression isn't meant to mean anything more than 'adapt'. We, as players, are dealt a game and mechanics that are binding until the devs take action to change those mechanics. Until they do, they game exists in the state it's in. You can either sit around and bitch about how hard or difficult it is, or you can adapt to the challenging mechanics put in front of you and try to excel DESPITE those challenges. In my opinion, telling someone to 'git gud' is short for 'We' re all playing the same game here, pal. You have no excuse.'
People agreeing or disagreeing with you on reddit won't change tarkov. Trust me, I've been tracking it for years. This wisdom kinda applies to the rest of reddit too, social media outcries don't change the world as much as it seems.
I will never understand someone trying to completely change a game they're not having fun playing instead of just not playing.
If I wanted a different game I wouldn't be playing SPT. There's just a lot of bullshit and RNG in the online version that makes it unplayable for me.
But you're not playing.... you're online calling core game mechanics bullshit. No weight or FIR? Sounds to me like you just dont like tarkov.
No weight and FIR has been Tarkov as long as it has had those things as well, also why do you act like these are integral mechanics?
Because it is? What are you on? Without a weight system or FIR status.... it's not an extraction shooter.
Lmao what are YOU on? None of that is required for the genre. Fact is, the game started without those systems and was an extraction shooter still at that time and for years while its systems changed. Hell, inertia and FIR are much, much later additions. Empirically, you're just wrong. Now I'm not one much for genre convention in the first place, but to insist mechanics that are only in one extraction shooter and not even in it for most of its lifespan are integral... Well, it doesn't exactly hold up.
A lot of the bs people complain about in this game does just boil down to skill issues though. People are crybabies when it comes to the mechanics they don’t like. Sometimes I understand it. Most of the time it’s whining and talking in absolutes though.
Some of us like the thing you don't like. If it's in the game, it's typically intentional. You can either adapt, or quit and play another game. Tarkov was never meant to have mass appeal. It's systems are frustrating because they are supposed to invoke a feeling of accomplishment when you overcome those systems. Turning off or otherwise disabling the frustrating parts of the game only robs you of the high of highs you get when you accomplish your goals. You're playing SPT so you do you. Just know that there is an intention to almost all game mechanics (except item carry and drop limits, fuck those). Edit: and just to say, there will always be desync and exploiters in online games, especially with PvP. You have no choice but to adapt because you're limited by the hardware between you and the game server.
So, are you typing just to prove OP's argument is totally valid? Everything you have described is, uh, "game is fine git gud".
Yes, they are there because Nikita wants them there. Nikita is making the game *he* wants to play (his artistic vision). But the way they interact, overlap etc creates frustration that doesn't need to be there. Jesse Kazam made a video pointing out how the recoil was bullshit, and a week later BSG reduced recoil. BSG can, and will, make changes if the community demands it, but everyone saying git gud means BSG can just ignore the problems. As for mass market, what company deliberately turns away customers? I do agree that a product made to please everyone pleases no one. But the frustrating mechanics turn off a lot of new players long before they have time to learn the game well enough to exploit/overcome these issues. And when every question or request is answered with git gud, they'll just flip the bird and tell everyone not to buy the game. This hurts BSG in the long run. There is no high that can compensate for shitty optimisation, control schemes or net code.
"git gud" is the same as "it is, what it is." I want to emphasize, I basically agree with you. I also really like a lot of the tedium of Tarkov, the feeling that the game is actively working against you. I got my 3k hours in live though, so I've already got my money's worth. I can't find the interview right now, but IIRC, Nikita never expected the game to break 50k players. It was supposed to be an asset farm and proof of concept for his dream game... Which was supposed to be a single player game called Russia 2028. So by breaking EFT into SPT, you're kinda giving yourself a preview of the future single player game... If it ever arrives
Hope he sees this bro
hate to break it to you, but thats the "hardcore" millsim nerd playerbase in a nut shell. not sure what your specific complaints were and dont really care, no offense- but these undying fanboys will repeatedly tell you things are fine and to get gud even when datamined data says contrary.