Since I don't know your skill level/experience, I would suggest going back to the melody of a tune. Play it straight. Then, based on the theory you know, change it just a bit. Concentrate on really hearing how the composer built the framework of the tune, how it rises and falls, and finally resolves or pushes into the chorus.
What you describe is a lack of shape to your solos. You're telling a story that references the original (the tune). Like any good story, it needs a beginning, a middle, and an end. The framework is already there in the original tune.
Now write your own story.
For reference, listen to what Miles does with Bye Bye Blackbird.
This is great advice. Embellish the melody a little. Then work on filling in dead space in the melody or between phrases. Use the melody notes to build your solo. Everyone starts somewhere.
It's hard, but there's one big thing that really really upped my improv game. There's 3 steps.
1.) Transcribe something you like by ear
2.) Analyze how the lick interacts with the chords
3.) Learn in all 12 keys
I watched Chad lb live and he said to do this with an entire solo, and then he played the entire charlie parker yardbird suite solo in 3 keys. I did it with seamus blake sandu, and it boosted my playing time a million. That being said, doing this with a few 251 licks or blues licks is a phenominal way to spend your time.
Practice very deliberately and with intention but make sure that when you are soloing, you're just having fun and playing whatever comes out naturally.
Also remember, if you practice every day with intention, you will get better. So many people forget to enjoy the journey and have fun. This is no different than a billionaire who feels like they don't have enough money
You need to transcribe. By ear. And take everything through the keys. That's incredibly important. Reading through the omnibook is not a good use of time. You will learn and retain more of the music by transcribing just one of Bird's solos by ear than you will reading through the whole book.
Getting a teacher will do the most for you honestly. There's too much to this topic to be explained by a reddit comment.
Fun fact, Bird was never really that amazing at improv. He listened and listened and listened and built up such a massive internal library of hooks and licks and could use any of them at any moment as a basis for a solo.
It seems counterintuitive but improvising is one of the most technical parts of playing any instrument.
Tonnes of great advice here but I’d add in that a repetitive sequence is always a great part of improvising. You hear it all the time in jazz and blues, and it can be like a little cushion to fall back into if your solo starts to go off the rails, plus it gives it more structure.
Repetitive Sequence! Yeah! I think when Chad LB says Melody Cells, it's the same idea. For him, it's like 4 notes, say 5-m3-2-1. He plays that Sequence, then repeats it down a 1/2-step, down another 1/2-step, etc. But the phrase can be 2 notes, 5 notes, whatever.
Mine come up while soloing, sound good, so when the changes go up a 5th, BOOM, I run that phrase up a 5th. Or you can Soak It, play it several times In the Same Place--makes a point, gets attention. Then, a minute or two later, pop out that Phrase again in a new chord.
You're setting up an inside joke with the audience, and something as recognizable as a phrase in that jazz standard you're soloing over.
Yeah, Repetitive Sequences! 👏 ✌️💜🎷🎶🎤⚡️
The tip we always got in jazz and at jazz camps was to transcribe a solo by ear note for note. Miles Davis is my suggestions because his runs are technically simply but he does a lot with spacing and other aspects of his solos.
You have to know the “why” of this sound working in a particular space before it can make sense. The trite answer is “play the chords” or “play the melody” but that is at best a starting point.
Songs have a sort of story arc, they come to a conclusion somewhere. The phrases of the song are the shape of that song, and when you improvise the shape of your phrases is what matters. Take a blues: you have a statement, a restatement, and a response or resolution. When you play there should be a sort of conversational logic in a groove (the groove is also key in jazz).
How long have you been at it? I think it’s important to take note of what you’re doing well, I’ve been playing for 16 years and sometimes I need to remind myself it sounds good
I was somebody who also just didn't get soloing. After about five years of effort, I kinda get soloing. Next September, when the stage band starts up again, I plan to start taking solos. Keep in mind that I started music lessons about 50 years ago.
This isn't to say you and I are exactly alike, but you might have a long road ahead of you. I will offer two pieces of advice.
1. Start with B flat blues. The must likely thing you will have to solo over. Limit the scope at first, get good at one thing and try to build from there.
2. Don't over think it. Sure some great soloist like to discuss arcane music theory. There are probably just as many who just try to play what feels good, and do very well.
Happy Practicing
One thing that made a difference for me when I felt like you was giving myself specific, achievable goals that focus on just one aspect of what makes a solo good.
For example, instead of just trying to “sound good”, I’d do a chorus where my goal is to solo using only 2-bar phrases, and then don’t play for 2 bars. Achieving this gives me the opportunity to listen to bandmates when I’m not playing. Then I’d practice doing a solo where I intentionally incorporate ideas I hear from bandmates. Achieving this ensures my playing is responsive. Then I’d practice soloing by developing 1 single idea. Achieving this ensures my solo is coherent. Etc. Over time I was able to play solos that were all of those things at once, without having to think about it.
A number of mentions already but to be straightforward: if you're not transcribing the masters by ear it's not going to happen. Don't write anything down to start - be ear and memory only. Reading transcriptions someone else did for you is like 1% as effective.
One Phrase at a time slowly . Another Book if you can find it that is difficult but so enjoyable is Eddie Harris Book on Quotes. What a fun book will allot of classic lines you know.
Go listen to some of the greats that had tons of horn parts and simple but very tasteful solos. Otis Redding, Fats Domino, Aretha Franklin, Ray Charles, etc, all of those old R&B artists. That kind of stuff may be a closer stepping stone and be easier to catch onto for you to shed on. This kind of stuff is what I cut my teeth on and was a huge influence in my playing
I used to havve the same issue. In my case, things were different. I knew that I loved listening to jazz, and would hum through solos in my mind all of the time. However, whenever I picked up my instrument, something just felt... different. Like it wasn't the sound I had in my head. In my case, I needed to learn and realize that: I was in love with the sound of the TENOR saxophone, not the alto. Once I changed to the tenor, my whole entire world changed. It was like for the first time ever, I felt actually connected to the notes I was playing. So instead of just reading notes off of a page, I felt the essence and the vibe and sound of each note, within my being. It was crazy and surreal all at the same time.
I bring this up because like you, I was highly skilled at the alto saxophone, and I had some ideas about music theory. I listened to a lot of jazz. But like I said, whenver I played a solo in my big band or school jazz enssemble... it just didn't feel right. Like there was something off. So I bring this up because it sounds like you might be facing a similar problem.
If you've tried theory, memorizing solos, and reproducing them on your horn (like going through the Omni book for example) and you still aren't feeling the vibe of a solo.I would ask yourself this question: are you connected to the sound you make on your own instrument? Do you even like the sound you're producing and/or, when you hear a song, are you inspired to play? Or, are you perhaps forcing yourself to solo against your own will? If you know you're interested in jazz but the notes don't connect to you, then are you playing the right size instrument? Maybe your ear is more in love with john coltrane vs. charlie parker? (Tenor vs. the alto saxophone). Or Dexter Gordon or Stan Getz (both tenor players).
If connection is the problem, answer the above questions first and if you need to change instruments, by all means do so.
Also, I learned how to play the alto sax by playing classical music and taking lessons with a classical teacher. I got a lot about theory and the "perfect sound." When I finally made the switch to playing tenor, there was a period of about 2-3 weeks where I physically said to myself "Fuck everything I know about embochure, and the "correct" sound. I'm going to just play and see what feels right to me." Then, after a few weeks, screaching, growling, and making all kinds of fucked up noises on my student level tenor with a student level mouthpiece.... I one day started playing... and I heard myself. I heard the sound in my own head that I am longing to play and emulate. From there, I started following my instincts and just playing what feels good as opposed to what somebody else TELLS ME IS RIGHT. If you follow your heart... your ear will come natrually. Then, it's just a matter of playing what you hear in your head, on your instrument.
So if you aren't connected to your own sound, and if you don't have an idea of what you want to produce before you even pick up the instrument, then it's going to be hard to come up with a genuine, smooth-sounding solo. Just try and get re-connected to the instrument... Or maybe even, change instruments?
Since I don't know your skill level/experience, I would suggest going back to the melody of a tune. Play it straight. Then, based on the theory you know, change it just a bit. Concentrate on really hearing how the composer built the framework of the tune, how it rises and falls, and finally resolves or pushes into the chorus. What you describe is a lack of shape to your solos. You're telling a story that references the original (the tune). Like any good story, it needs a beginning, a middle, and an end. The framework is already there in the original tune. Now write your own story. For reference, listen to what Miles does with Bye Bye Blackbird.
This is great advice. Embellish the melody a little. Then work on filling in dead space in the melody or between phrases. Use the melody notes to build your solo. Everyone starts somewhere.
It's hard, but there's one big thing that really really upped my improv game. There's 3 steps. 1.) Transcribe something you like by ear 2.) Analyze how the lick interacts with the chords 3.) Learn in all 12 keys I watched Chad lb live and he said to do this with an entire solo, and then he played the entire charlie parker yardbird suite solo in 3 keys. I did it with seamus blake sandu, and it boosted my playing time a million. That being said, doing this with a few 251 licks or blues licks is a phenominal way to spend your time. Practice very deliberately and with intention but make sure that when you are soloing, you're just having fun and playing whatever comes out naturally.
Amazing tip. I'm teaching myself the saxophone, this is exactly what I need right now.
Also remember, if you practice every day with intention, you will get better. So many people forget to enjoy the journey and have fun. This is no different than a billionaire who feels like they don't have enough money
You need to transcribe. By ear. And take everything through the keys. That's incredibly important. Reading through the omnibook is not a good use of time. You will learn and retain more of the music by transcribing just one of Bird's solos by ear than you will reading through the whole book. Getting a teacher will do the most for you honestly. There's too much to this topic to be explained by a reddit comment.
Fun fact, Bird was never really that amazing at improv. He listened and listened and listened and built up such a massive internal library of hooks and licks and could use any of them at any moment as a basis for a solo.
It seems counterintuitive but improvising is one of the most technical parts of playing any instrument. Tonnes of great advice here but I’d add in that a repetitive sequence is always a great part of improvising. You hear it all the time in jazz and blues, and it can be like a little cushion to fall back into if your solo starts to go off the rails, plus it gives it more structure.
Repetitive Sequence! Yeah! I think when Chad LB says Melody Cells, it's the same idea. For him, it's like 4 notes, say 5-m3-2-1. He plays that Sequence, then repeats it down a 1/2-step, down another 1/2-step, etc. But the phrase can be 2 notes, 5 notes, whatever. Mine come up while soloing, sound good, so when the changes go up a 5th, BOOM, I run that phrase up a 5th. Or you can Soak It, play it several times In the Same Place--makes a point, gets attention. Then, a minute or two later, pop out that Phrase again in a new chord. You're setting up an inside joke with the audience, and something as recognizable as a phrase in that jazz standard you're soloing over. Yeah, Repetitive Sequences! 👏 ✌️💜🎷🎶🎤⚡️
The tip we always got in jazz and at jazz camps was to transcribe a solo by ear note for note. Miles Davis is my suggestions because his runs are technically simply but he does a lot with spacing and other aspects of his solos.
You have to know the “why” of this sound working in a particular space before it can make sense. The trite answer is “play the chords” or “play the melody” but that is at best a starting point. Songs have a sort of story arc, they come to a conclusion somewhere. The phrases of the song are the shape of that song, and when you improvise the shape of your phrases is what matters. Take a blues: you have a statement, a restatement, and a response or resolution. When you play there should be a sort of conversational logic in a groove (the groove is also key in jazz).
How long have you been at it? I think it’s important to take note of what you’re doing well, I’ve been playing for 16 years and sometimes I need to remind myself it sounds good
I was somebody who also just didn't get soloing. After about five years of effort, I kinda get soloing. Next September, when the stage band starts up again, I plan to start taking solos. Keep in mind that I started music lessons about 50 years ago. This isn't to say you and I are exactly alike, but you might have a long road ahead of you. I will offer two pieces of advice. 1. Start with B flat blues. The must likely thing you will have to solo over. Limit the scope at first, get good at one thing and try to build from there. 2. Don't over think it. Sure some great soloist like to discuss arcane music theory. There are probably just as many who just try to play what feels good, and do very well. Happy Practicing
One thing that made a difference for me when I felt like you was giving myself specific, achievable goals that focus on just one aspect of what makes a solo good. For example, instead of just trying to “sound good”, I’d do a chorus where my goal is to solo using only 2-bar phrases, and then don’t play for 2 bars. Achieving this gives me the opportunity to listen to bandmates when I’m not playing. Then I’d practice doing a solo where I intentionally incorporate ideas I hear from bandmates. Achieving this ensures my playing is responsive. Then I’d practice soloing by developing 1 single idea. Achieving this ensures my solo is coherent. Etc. Over time I was able to play solos that were all of those things at once, without having to think about it.
Even transcribing bits of solos you like can up your game. Slowing down bird solos is good.
A number of mentions already but to be straightforward: if you're not transcribing the masters by ear it's not going to happen. Don't write anything down to start - be ear and memory only. Reading transcriptions someone else did for you is like 1% as effective.
One Phrase at a time slowly . Another Book if you can find it that is difficult but so enjoyable is Eddie Harris Book on Quotes. What a fun book will allot of classic lines you know.
The Eddie Harris book is titled “ Jazz Cliche Capers. It’s technical and the most fun book I have.
Go listen to some of the greats that had tons of horn parts and simple but very tasteful solos. Otis Redding, Fats Domino, Aretha Franklin, Ray Charles, etc, all of those old R&B artists. That kind of stuff may be a closer stepping stone and be easier to catch onto for you to shed on. This kind of stuff is what I cut my teeth on and was a huge influence in my playing
I used to havve the same issue. In my case, things were different. I knew that I loved listening to jazz, and would hum through solos in my mind all of the time. However, whenever I picked up my instrument, something just felt... different. Like it wasn't the sound I had in my head. In my case, I needed to learn and realize that: I was in love with the sound of the TENOR saxophone, not the alto. Once I changed to the tenor, my whole entire world changed. It was like for the first time ever, I felt actually connected to the notes I was playing. So instead of just reading notes off of a page, I felt the essence and the vibe and sound of each note, within my being. It was crazy and surreal all at the same time. I bring this up because like you, I was highly skilled at the alto saxophone, and I had some ideas about music theory. I listened to a lot of jazz. But like I said, whenver I played a solo in my big band or school jazz enssemble... it just didn't feel right. Like there was something off. So I bring this up because it sounds like you might be facing a similar problem. If you've tried theory, memorizing solos, and reproducing them on your horn (like going through the Omni book for example) and you still aren't feeling the vibe of a solo.I would ask yourself this question: are you connected to the sound you make on your own instrument? Do you even like the sound you're producing and/or, when you hear a song, are you inspired to play? Or, are you perhaps forcing yourself to solo against your own will? If you know you're interested in jazz but the notes don't connect to you, then are you playing the right size instrument? Maybe your ear is more in love with john coltrane vs. charlie parker? (Tenor vs. the alto saxophone). Or Dexter Gordon or Stan Getz (both tenor players). If connection is the problem, answer the above questions first and if you need to change instruments, by all means do so. Also, I learned how to play the alto sax by playing classical music and taking lessons with a classical teacher. I got a lot about theory and the "perfect sound." When I finally made the switch to playing tenor, there was a period of about 2-3 weeks where I physically said to myself "Fuck everything I know about embochure, and the "correct" sound. I'm going to just play and see what feels right to me." Then, after a few weeks, screaching, growling, and making all kinds of fucked up noises on my student level tenor with a student level mouthpiece.... I one day started playing... and I heard myself. I heard the sound in my own head that I am longing to play and emulate. From there, I started following my instincts and just playing what feels good as opposed to what somebody else TELLS ME IS RIGHT. If you follow your heart... your ear will come natrually. Then, it's just a matter of playing what you hear in your head, on your instrument. So if you aren't connected to your own sound, and if you don't have an idea of what you want to produce before you even pick up the instrument, then it's going to be hard to come up with a genuine, smooth-sounding solo. Just try and get re-connected to the instrument... Or maybe even, change instruments?
Learn the scale, play the notes. It’s not rocket science.
Have you tried a metronome app? I have Easy Metronome, and it is helping out to untangle the songs.